Re: tablets and desktops was Has Microsoft

[Quadibloc]

On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 12:22:59 PM UTC-6, Dave Garland wrote:
> On 6/26/2018 5:37 AM, Quadibloc wrote:

> > Had he done so, would South Vietnam have remained an independent nation, or would
> > it have fallen to conquest from the North? If the latter, you are using an invalid
> > value of "could".

> Considering the North and South to be independent nations has about
> the same legitimacy as considering the US and the Confederacy to be
> separate nations. Maybe a bit less, since the division was imposed by
> outside powers, instead of being indigenous.

What???

The Confederacy was evil; it sought to perpetuate the evil institution of Negro slavery.

In the case of Vietnam, it was the *North* that was an evil totalitarian Communist
regime. It is regrettable that the U.S. did not behave perfectly in South Vietnam, but
that doesn't change the basics, that a dictatorship invaded a comparatively free
nation in order to enslave its people.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

From the North Vietnamese viewpoint the freedom fighters in the North
freed the South from the yoke of colonialism.

Ever have this conversation with a Viet Cong? I have.

[Quadibloc]

On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 9:40:37 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> From the North Vietnamese viewpoint the freedom fighters in the North
> freed the South from the yoke of colonialism.

> Ever have this conversation with a Viet Cong? I have.

So what? I see flat earth videos on YouTube. That doesn't mean
that the Earth is flat.

John Savard

[gareth evans]

On 27/03/2021 15:16, Quadibloc wrote:
> ... but

> that doesn't change the basics, that a dictatorship invaded a comparatively free
> nation in order to enslave its people.

... and we in Brit are still under the jackboot of the Norman Invaders
despite that in 45 years it will be 1000 years since their arrival.

[Dan Espen]

For me, the most relevant fact is Ho Chi Minh fought on the allied side
against the Japanese. Vietnam should have never been returned to the French.

--
Dan Espen

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> writes:
> From the North Vietnamese viewpoint the freedom fighters in the North
> freed the South from the yoke of colonialism.

"A different Kind of War" Admiral Milton Miles, First half of the book
is about being sent into China to form the coastal watchers and helped
train 50,000 gorillas to fight the Japanese. The last half of the book
is how OSS & factions of the Army tried to come in and take over
responsibility but were rebuffed by the Navy&Marines, State Dept, and
the Nationalists ... so to have something to take credit for, they
support Mao (aka how they gave China to the Communist).

Congressional hearings Dec1947, Wedemeyer appears to realize what has
been done wrong, but it is already too late (behind paywall, but lives
free at wayback machine).
http://web.archive.org/web/20110203103817/http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,804381,00.html

Also (from "Different Kind of War") towards the end when Japan was
loosing, the chinese army that had been in occupied territory, wanted to
come over to the nationlists, it was veto'ed by the US Army so they went
over to the communists. From the law of unintended consequnces, it was
those Chinese Army units that were sent to North Korea to fight the US.

McMaster's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._R._McMaster
PHD thesis
https://www.amazon.com/Dereliction-Duty-Johnson-McNamara-Chiefs-ebook/dp/B004HW7834/

... based (in part) on (then recently) released classified information
says that Johnson's staff told him the Vietnam war was not winnable, but
in court of world opinion, it would be better to go ahead fight and
loose.

... other trivia, McNamara had been LeMay's staff in WW2 planning the
fire bombing of German and then Japanese cities (1/3rd of all US WW2
spending went to strategic bombing program ... but it was almost
impossible to hit target from 5-6miles up ... however fire bombing
cities couldn't miss ... and showed some results). McNamara then left
for the auto industry, but then came back as SECDEF for Vietnam where
Laos becomes most bombed country in the world, more bombs dropped than
Germany and Japan combined.

What if the Kuomintang Had Won the Chinese Civil War?
https://thediplomat.com/2015/12/what-if-the-kuomingtang-had-won-the-chinese-civil-war/

... there would have been no Korean war, no domino theory, no vietnam?

.. trivia: my wife's father was command of US army engineering combat
group in WW2 and towards the end was frequently ranking officer into
Germany (getting collection of officer daggers in surrenders). After the
end of hostilities, refused further command in Germany (even when
promised promotion to general, speculation was based on what they found
in the camps). He was then sent to China as military advisor to Chiang
Kai-shek and in 1947 brought the family over to live in Nanking. The
family was evacuated on 3hrs notice in army cargo plane to Tsingtao when
the city was ringed.

Apparently part of Eisenhower's directive to document the camps with
lots of pictures (so the world would never forget), he had a very large
photo album of camp pictures.

... other trivia: John Foster Dulles played a major role in rebuilding
German economy, industry, and military from the 20s up thru the early
40s ... and from the law of unintended consequences, when US 1943
Strategic Bombing program needed targets in Germany, they got plans and
coordinates from wallstreet (... and then had extreme difficulty hitting
the targets).

June1940, Germany had a victory celebration at the NYC Waldorf-Astoria
with major industrialists. Lots of them were there to hear how to do
business with the Nazis
https://www.amazon.com/Man-Called-Intrepid-Incredible-Narrative-ebook/dp/B00V9QVE5O/
loc1925-29: One prominent figure at the German victory celebration was
Torkild Rieber, of Texaco, whose tankers eluded the British
blockade. The company had already been warned, at Roosevelt's
instigation, about violations of the Neutrality Law. But Rieber had set
up an elaborate scheme for shipping oil and petroleum products through
neutral ports in South America.

Later somewhat replay of the 1940 celebration, there was conference of
5000 industrialists and corporations from across the US at the
Waldorf-Astoria, and in part because they had gotten such a bad
reputation for the depression and supporting Nazis, as part of
attempting to refurbish their horribly corrupt and venal image, they
approved a major propaganda campaign to equate Capitalism with
Christianity.
https://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-God-Corporate-ebook/dp/B00PWX7R56/
part of the result by the early 50s was adding "under god" to the pledge
of allegiance. slightly cleaned up version
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

[J. Clarke]

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 13:32:16 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com>
wrote:

And the main reason he went to the Communists at all was that US
turned down his request for help.

[J. Clarke]

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 09:23:53 -1000, Anne & Lynn Wheeler
<ly...@garlic.com> wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> writes:
>> From the North Vietnamese viewpoint the freedom fighters in the North
>> freed the South from the yoke of colonialism.
>
>"A different Kind of War" Admiral Milton Miles, First half of the book
>is about being sent into China to form the coastal watchers and helped
>train 50,000 gorillas to fight the Japanese. The last half of the book
>is how OSS & factions of the Army tried to come in and take over
>responsibility but were rebuffed by the Navy&Marines, State Dept, and
>the Nationalists ... so to have something to take credit for, they
>support Mao (aka how they gave China to the Communist).

My Dad was in China at the time. He knew Chiang and had met Mao. He
had very unkind things to say about the US handling of that situation.

[Dan Espen]

Similar to what happened with Castro.

--
Dan Espen

[Niklas Karlsson]

On 2021-03-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
> (1999 is too new for this group though)

Is it? I thought the cutoff was 20 years.

Did I make you feel old? You're welcome. (Made myself feel old too.)

Niklas
--
Arguing about window managers, or shells, is like arguing
about which colour wrench to use to pound in screws.
-- David Gersic, asr

[Thomas Koenig]

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <ly...@garlic.com> schrieb:

> "A different Kind of War" Admiral Milton Miles, First half of the book
> is about being sent into China to form the coastal watchers and helped
> train 50,000 gorillas to fight the Japanese.

That would have been a sight :-)

I assume you meant guerrillas. Did a spell checker intervene here?

[Andreas Kohlbach]

On 28 Mar 2021 12:27:43 GMT, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>
> On 2021-03-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>> (1999 is too new for this group though)
>
> Is it? I thought the cutoff was 20 years.

Am not aware of a cut-off rules. Personally I would like to limit it to
everything before the 1990s, because I find computers after boring. But
that's not my call.

> Did I make you feel old? You're welcome. (Made myself feel old too.)

Yes. But not old enough to yet get vaccinated.
--
Andreas

[Peter Flass]

Niklas Karlsson <nikke.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2021-03-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>> (1999 is too new for this group though)
>
> Is it? I thought the cutoff was 20 years.

I thought 10...

>
> Did I make you feel old? You're welcome. (Made myself feel old too.)
>
> Niklas



--

Pete

[Charlie Gibbs]

Must have. My favourite spelling checker experience was with
the Amiga version of WordPerfect. We were writing a memo about
Unisys, and the spelling checker suggested it should be "anuses".

I have a spelling checker,
It came with my PC;
It plainly marks fourmy revue
Mistakes I cannot sea.
I've run this poem threw it,
I'm sure your pleased too no.
Its letter perfect in it's weigh,
My checker tolled me sew.

-- Janet Minor: Spellbound

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana

[Niklas Karlsson]

On 2021-03-28, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Niklas Karlsson <nikke.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-03-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> (1999 is too new for this group though)
>>
>> Is it? I thought the cutoff was 20 years.
>
> I thought 10...

Maybe it is 10. That would make even my gaming computer on-topic.

It is starting to show its age. Even though it's received some TLC with
extra RAM and whatnot, I'm experiencing performance issues even running
relatively older games. Software bloat, no doubt.

Niklas
--
"And the attacks have been totally random, so that rules out border skirmishes
or political disagreements. there's no one obvious to blame."
"Which means they'll blame each other, randomly."
-- Sheridan and Delenn in Babylon 5:"In the Kingdom of the Blind"

[Scott Lurndal]

Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>On 2021-03-28, Thomas Koenig <tko...@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <ly...@garlic.com> schrieb:
>>
>>> "A different Kind of War" Admiral Milton Miles, First half of the book
>>> is about being sent into China to form the coastal watchers and helped
>>> train 50,000 gorillas to fight the Japanese.
>>
>> That would have been a sight :-)
>>
>> I assume you meant guerrillas. Did a spell checker intervene here?
>
>Must have. My favourite spelling checker experience was with
>the Amiga version of WordPerfect. We were writing a memo about
>Unisys, and the spelling checker suggested it should be "anuses".

As a former Burroughs/Unisys employee who watched the company
managed into the ground, I'm not sure I'd disagree with that
characterization :-)

[Charlie Gibbs]

I worked for Univac about the time they changed their name
to simply Sperry. They were in the process of transitioning
from a technically-oriented company to a marketing-oriented one.
This was bad news for us techies, who found our jobs becoming
more and more a matter of keeping salesmen's outlandish promises
for them. When my boss told me he wanted to see me doing more
demos and pre-sales work, I knew it was just about time to go.
The breaking point was the second project on which we ate a
man-year - both of which were sold by the same person.

[Andreas Kohlbach]

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:40:03 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>

>>Must have. My favourite spelling checker experience was with
>>the Amiga version of WordPerfect. We were writing a memo about
>>Unisys, and the spelling checker suggested it should be "anuses".
>
> As a former Burroughs/Unisys employee who watched the company
> managed into the ground, I'm not sure I'd disagree with that
> characterization :-)

Still happened a few years ago. I think it was aspell or hunspell here. I
typed "cant" instead of "can't", and the speller suggested "cunt" among
other.

Today, at least with aspell, that doesn't happen here anymore; it also
knows "cant" as word.
--
Andreas

[Niklas Karlsson]

On 2021-03-29, Scott Lurndal <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>

>>Must have. My favourite spelling checker experience was with
>>the Amiga version of WordPerfect. We were writing a memo about
>>Unisys, and the spelling checker suggested it should be "anuses".
>
> As a former Burroughs/Unisys employee who watched the company
> managed into the ground, I'm not sure I'd disagree with that
> characterization :-)

Time to dig in the quotes file:

[Sperry + Burroughs merge into Unisys under the tagline "The Power of
Two"]
Their main office building here was known as the "Tower of Poo".
-- brian (Wellington, NZ)

Niklas
--
"We are raised to honor all the wrong explorers and discoverers - thieves
planting flags, murderers carrying crosses. Let us at last praise the colonizers
of dreams."
-- Peter S. Beagle

[Scott Lurndal]

Niklas Karlsson <nikke.k...@gmail.com> writes:
>On 2021-03-29, Scott Lurndal <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>Must have. My favourite spelling checker experience was with
>>>the Amiga version of WordPerfect. We were writing a memo about
>>>Unisys, and the spelling checker suggested it should be "anuses".
>>
>> As a former Burroughs/Unisys employee who watched the company
>> managed into the ground, I'm not sure I'd disagree with that
>> characterization :-)
>
>Time to dig in the quotes file:
>
>[Sperry + Burroughs merge into Unisys under the tagline "The Power of
>Two"]
>Their main office building here was known as the "Tower of Poo".
> -- brian (Wellington, NZ)
>

I've still got copies of the interoffice memos that Blumenthal
sent - first to cancel the acquistion, then to confirm it.

[Questor]

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 13:32:16 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes. This.

Here we go again...

Ho Chi Minh was an anti-colonial activist for decades before WW II. The allies
supplied him in an insurgent campaign against the Japanese. Japanese, French --
they were all foreign occupiers as far as he was concerned.

After the war was obviously a time to ensure the French were removed
permanently. Ho Chi Minh admired the United States. He thought that because of
our own history in successfully fighting off the yoke of British colonialism, we
would naturally support him in his quest for independence. But De Gaulle made
noise about "falling into the Russian orbit," a claim that seems somewhat
nonsensical at this remove. The U.S. sides with its WW II ally instead. This
is America's first big mistake in Vietnam. Then, as noted by J. Clarke, Ho Chi
Minh turned to the Communists for help, and the tragic merry-go-round begins.

After ten years, the French give up and cut their losses. It took the United
States twenty more years to do so.

Vietnam might be a democratic nation today if the U.S. had told France to go
stuff it.

[Stoat]

On 30/03/21 10:27 pm, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2021-03-29, Scott Lurndal <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>> Must have. My favourite spelling checker experience was with
>>> the Amiga version of WordPerfect. We were writing a memo about
>>> Unisys, and the spelling checker suggested it should be "anuses".
>>
>> As a former Burroughs/Unisys employee who watched the company
>> managed into the ground, I'm not sure I'd disagree with that
>> characterization :-)
>
> Time to dig in the quotes file:
>
> [Sperry + Burroughs merge into Unisys under the tagline "The Power of
> Two"]
> Their main office building here was known as the "Tower of Poo".
> -- brian (Wellington, NZ)

Please remind me how long ago I wrote that.

--brian

--
Wellington
New Zealand

[Niklas Karlsson]

My quotes file doesn't contain dates, but... *gargle* Aug 26, 2011,
apparently.

Niklas
--
My main argument against autonomous probes is what alien cultures
would think us if the got hold of a deep-space probe running Windows 7.
Their anthropologists might enjoy the paradox of a civilisation
being able to get off the planet with such software. -- Bernd Felsche

[JimP]

I had it with someone who saw only the good in the North and only the
corruption in the South. They stopped talking to me when I pointed out
both had bad faults.

--
Jim

[JimP]

Same thing with Cuba, when they asked for help getting rid of Batista.

--
Jim

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <ly...@garlic.com> writes:
> "A different Kind of War" Admiral Milton Miles, First half of the book
> is about being sent into China to form the coastal watchers and helped
> train 50,000 gorillas to fight the Japanese. The last half of the book
> is how OSS & factions of the Army tried to come in and take over
> responsibility but were rebuffed by the Navy&Marines, State Dept, and
> the Nationalists ... so to have something to take credit for, they
> support Mao (aka how they gave China to the Communist).

This goes into much more detail (about OSS giving China to
communists)
https://www.amazon.com/OSS-China-Prelude-Cold-War-ebook/dp/B00DY0OLNK/

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 14:27:48 -0500
JimP <chuckt...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 15:51:32 -0400, J. Clarke

> >And the main reason he went to the Communists at all was that US
> >turned down his request for help.
>
> Same thing with Cuba, when they asked for help getting rid of Batista.

A large part of the cold war consisted of small (relatively), poor
and badly organised countries appealing for help from anyone who would give
it and getting it from whichever superpower thought they were in a
strategically useful spot provided they adopted the appropriate ideology at
least as a flavouring of their dictatorship and accept their strategic role.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/