What is a spool file?
Ken Hornstein
systems we have what are known as "spool" files ... aka reader files.
And you can "spool" the virtual console. What I wanted to know, where did
"spool" come from? I understand about reader being short for virtual card
reader, PUN files being punch files, etc ... but "spool" mystifies me. Anyone
got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ken Hornstein (kxh105@psuvm) | "When in doubt, I whip it out ...". |
+-------------------------------+ - Ted Nugent |
| Sorry, no cheap ASCII +--------------------------------------+
| graphics here .... | Disclaimer: It was Fiend!! |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Charley Kline
>Here a question for all people who know much more than me: On IBM VM/CMS
>systems we have what are known as "spool" files ... aka reader files.
>And you can "spool" the virtual console. What I wanted to know, where did
>"spool" come from? I understand about reader being short for virtual card
>reader, PUN files being punch files, etc ... but "spool" mystifies me. Anyone
>got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
It's one of the more clever acronyms in the biz (as opposed to
"kermit"): Simultaneous Peripheral Operation OnLine. Back in the days
before multitasking, being able to have your operating system read
input jobs from the card reader AND print output to the printer AND
execute a job was a very big deal.
Back in the Old Days when we had our 7094 here (before my time, alas),
the operating procedure was to gather card decks for an hour, then read
them into an offline card reader, which would just copy the 80-column
records to tape. The tape was then taken across the street to where the
7094 CPU was located, and it would
while not end-of-tape
read in a job
run the job
print the output to another tape
The output tape was then brought back across the street where another
offline device, a printer, would read the 133-column records off the
tape and print them on an impact printer. We had a great big table
which was our conference room table in my time which back then was the
"bursting table"--where operators would separate the program outputs
from each other and disseminate them, rubberbanded with the input card
deck, to the users.
We have it so lucky these days.
_____
Charley Kline, University of Illinois Computing Services
c-k...@uiuc.edu
Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879
by KXH...@psuvm.psu.edu (Ken Hornstein):
>
> ... What I wanted to know, where did "spool" come from?
>
I've had the privilege of seeing a (second generation) spooler that used
real paper tape, but no spools.
It was in a quonset hut south of Urbana Illinois, and the hut smelled of
rotten soybeans, having been used to store beans before a computer
landed in it (high protien beans rot the same way meat does, and it was
very hot when I visited).
The guy who owned the hut liked to buy old computers, and he'd just gotten
a used vacuum tube machine from the FAA for a dollar and trucking costs.
He wanted it so he could hack around with a transistorized I/O processor
that had been added later, but he got the entire system, including drum
impact printers with specialized weather reporting symbols and all of the
communications interfaces.
All incoming communications lines were spooled so that if a message
arrived while the machine was doing something else, it wouldn't be lost.
Spoolers operated as follows: The incoming line ran to a paper-tape
punch, the output of the punch ran into a bin, and from the bin, the
tape ran through a reader. When the "spool file" was empty, there was
no tape in the bin and the tension of the tape between the punch and the
reader closed a microswitch to stop the reader. To guarantee that a
message was fully received, you had to make sure it was followed by
enough nulls to span the gap between punch and reader.
The name for the thing came from the spools of paper tape involved, and
I gather that the first generation of spoolers stored the punched tape
on real (or reel?) spools between the punch and reader. Some bright
person later found that letting the tape fall into a bin that was exactly
the same width as the tape would allow it to be pulled out without risk
of tangles, so physical spools weren't used.
By the way, the same man also had a working CDC 1620 (if memory serves
me right) in his basement. It was the machine that once ran the Plato III
system, and he said he only used it in the winter.
Doug Jones
jo...@herky.cs.uiowa.edu
Ben Cranston
Distribution:
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
KXH...@psuvm.psu.edu (Ken Hornstein) writes:
: Where did [the term] "spool" come from?
In article <1990Mar22....@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kl...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
(Charley Kline) writes:
: One of the more clever acronyms: Simultaneous Peripheral Operation OnLine.
: Back in the Old Days when we had our 7094 here (before my time, alas),
: ...gather card decks for an hour, then read the 80-column records to tape.
: The tape was then taken to the 7094 CPU... A printer would read the
: 133-column records off the tape and print them on an impact printer.
Charley, you forgot the most interesting bit of the folklore. The
"customary and usual" 7094 configuration had the input tape on tape drive
number 5 and the output tape on tape drive number 6. These numbers might
be familiar to those who have worked with Fortran, and coded:
READ (5,100,END=15O) MUMBLE,FROTZ
WRITE (6,110) SMUTZ,FROZZL
(Of course, Fortran is traditionally written in upper case.) We still
have a bursting table, though since we don't do cards anymore we don't
wrap a rubber band around the printout...
On our 7094 and the Univac 1100s that replaced it used unit 1 for the punch
output unit, and 0 and 30 as "reread units" that would allow you to
reread the last card read (usually with a different format statement).
I don't think these numbers were quite as well standardized as 5 and 6.
--
"It's all about Power, it's all about Control
All the rest is lies for the credulous"
-- Man-in-the-street interview in Romania one week after Ceaucescu execution.
Mark E. Shoulson
>Here a question for all people who know much more than me: On IBM VM/CMS
>systems we have what are known as "spool" files ... aka reader files.
>And you can "spool" the virtual console. What I wanted to know, where did
>"spool" come from? I understand about reader being short for virtual card
>reader, PUN files being punch files, etc ... but "spool" mystifies me. Anyone
>got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
"Spool" stands for "Simultaneous Peripheral Operation On-Line." I've heard
it "Off-Line" as well, but the book I just looked it up in (Tannenbaum's
_Operating Systems_) has "On-Line." I suppose this'll cause another
mega-discussion about which it actually is...
~mark
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Ken Hornstein (kxh105@psuvm) | "When in doubt, I whip it out ...". |
>+-------------------------------+ - Ted Nugent |
>| Sorry, no cheap ASCII +--------------------------------------+
>| graphics here .... | Disclaimer: It was Fiend!! |
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
o o o o o o o o o o o o
o o o o o o o
o o o o o o o o o o o
Mark Shoulson: shou...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu shou...@cunixc.bitnet
John Owens
> card reader --> mag tape
> magtape --> computer --> magtape
> magtape --> card punch or printer
Interestingly, I seem to have discovered this independently, about 30
years after the fact. :-)
I had an undergraduate assembler language class that used an IBM 360.
(Yes, a real 360, and this was the early 80's!) Rather than punch
cards on one side of campus, take them diagonally across campus to the
room with the 360, then go back for each iteration, I managed to
figure out enough JCL to transfer control to the tape drive and kept
those two cards with me. I then made up my "decks", JCL and all, on a
PDP-11 running UNIX and used "dd" to write them onto tape. The end of
the "decks" would contain JCL to transfer control back to the card
reader. Luckily, the lowest density of the PDP-11 tape drive (800
bpi) matched the highest density of the 360 tape drive (which went as
low at 200-odd bpi).
The PDP-11 was only half-way across campus, so I didn't have to walk
too far, and could use a screen editor on my programs.... I didn't go
as far as to write the output back onto another tape to print on a
nicer printer; I just used the old 360 chain-drive....
--
John Owens jo...@jetson.UPMA.MD.US uunet!jetson!john
+1 301 249 6000 john%jetso...@uunet.uu.net
Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879
by shou...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Mark E. Shoulson):
> In article <90080.235...@psuvm.psu.edu>
KXH...@psuvm.psu.edu (Ken Hornstein) writes:
>> ... Anyone got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
>
> "Spool" stands for "Simultaneous Peripheral Operation On-Line." I've
> heard it "Off-Line" as well.
My understanding is that the acrynymic version of SPOOL is indeed quite
old, but that, like SNOBOL, it came after the fact. The term spooling
peripherals, and the notion of off-line operation from paper tape (and
later magnetic tape) all predate the acronym. If you look at, for example,
the various knock-offs of the IAS architecture in the early 1950's, you
find that many of them had very minimal input-output. These machines
tended to have a console teleprinter, a high-speed paper tape reader, and
a high speed punch. If you wanted a printout of your results, you ran
the output tape through an off-line printer.
That's all folklore to me, I was born in 1951, and didn't get to play with
a computer until 1968.
Doug Jones
jo...@herky.cs.uiowa.edu
Tom Almy
>got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
I understand that spool is some acronym, but I forget what it stands for. I
would guess that what ever it is it's an acronym after the fact.
Unit record equipment (card readers, punches) and printers were, even back
then, much slower than the computers. So in order to get maximum utilization
out of that expensive computer, one wanted to access this equipment in the
"background". This was done with intermediary mag tape units. So:
card reader --> mag tape
magtape --> computer --> magtape
magtape --> card punch or printer
This process was called "spooling" because the data would be spooled on the
magnetic tape.
FORTRAN I/O should be a little more obvious after this discussion -- you read
and write to tape units representing the card reader/punch (now "console")
and printer.
Tom Almy
to...@tekgvs.labs.tek.com
Standard Disclaimers Apply
Eugene Miya
Well, then you know what HASP is!
Hey I have time to read news!.... my supercomputer is fast, that's why I'm
waiting.
Another gross generalization from
--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eug...@aurora.arc.nasa.gov
resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers:
"You trust the `reply' command with all those different mailers out there?"
"If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology."
{ncar,decwrl,hplabs,uunet}!ames!eugene
This signature will self destruct in 9 days.
[If it ain't source, it ain't software -- D. Tweten]
Gerard K. Newman
>Trivia eh?
>Well, then you know what HASP is!
Houston Automatic Spooling and Priority system. Developed by NASA for the
360 model 91 which put us on the moon, I believe.
gkn
San Diego Supercomputer Center
Elliott S. Frank
>"spool" come from?
"Spool" comes from an acronym of late sixties vintage "Simultaneous
Peripheral Output Online Listing".
Until the mid sixties, the normal mode of operation on a large mainframe
was to run your (batch) job, producing an output tape, which was then
listed on periperal equipment (tape-to-print). Including the ability to
print from the mainframe as part of the processing of your batch job was
a big advance.
Univac had the first commercial implementation, (anyone remember the
name?) and threatened to win the NASA Johnson Space Flight Systems
contract. Three or four IBM SE's worked over Labor Day weekend 1966
and built the equivalent functionality for OS/360 (Release 7??) and
kept the contract safely in the IBM fold. Their design, known as HASP
(Houston Automatic Spooling Program), is still a part of MVS.
--
Elliott Frank ...!{hplabs,ames,sun}!amdahl!esf00 (408) 746-6384
or ....!{bnrmtv,drivax,hoptoad}!amdahl!esf00
[the above opinions are strictly mine, if anyone's.]
[the above signature may or may not be repeated, depending upon some
inscrutable property of the mailer-of-the-week.]
Elliott S. Frank
es...@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Elliott S. Frank) ((me)) wrote:
>
>"Spool" comes from an acronym of late sixties vintage "Simultaneous
>Peripheral Output Online Listing".
>
this online stuff.
Dave Dodson
spool = "simultaneous peripheral operation on line"
It meant that the computer could drive the card readers, card punches,
and line printers simultaneously with the compute load. Formerly, the
peripherals were attached to small computers, such as an IBM 1401, which
transferred card or line images to/from magnetic tape. The tape was
hand-carried to/from the "mainframe" which then didn't burden itself with
running the slow peripherals while it had more important computing to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Dodson dod...@convex.COM
Convex Computer Corporation Richardson, Texas (214) 497-4234
Eric Hvozda
>
>In article <65...@eos.UUCP> eug...@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes:
>>Trivia eh?
>>Well, then you know what HASP is!
>
>Houston Automatic Spooling and Priority system. Developed by NASA for the
Is this the same as $HASP messages issued by JES2?!? Just wondering.
Does anybody out there know where the $HASP message from MVS comes from?
Are the an acronym for something?
Yes, that's right, I am Ack!, Bill the Cat's fur ball... NOT the JOKER!
_ /| ESH101@PSUVM Wot? These PSU's ideas? Ha!
\ o.O` ESH...@PSUVM.PSU.EDU They don't even know how to
=(___)= -- Ack! ESH101%PS...@PSUVAX1.UUCP *THINK*!! If I would drink, I
U HVO...@MATH.PSU.EDU would be normal. We couldn't
HVOZDA%MATH.PSU.EDU@PSUVM have that, now could we??
Werner Icking
>In article <90080.235...@psuvm.psu.edu> KXH...@psuvm.psu.edu (Ken Hornstein) writes:
>>Anyone got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
>spool = "simultaneous peripheral operation on line"
Ok, that's right.
>It meant that the computer could drive the card readers, card punches,
>and line printers simultaneously with the compute load. Formerly, the
>peripherals were attached to small computers, such as an IBM 1401, which
>transferred card or line images to/from magnetic tape. The tape was
>hand-carried to/from the "mainframe" which then didn't burden itself with
>running the slow peripherals while it had more important computing to do.
"Simultaneous" meant in addition that more than one user(-programm) could
use the card reader, card punches and line printers at the same time,
because the records where "SPOOL"-ed.
Werner
--
Werner Icking
Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung mbH (GMD)
Schloss Birlinghoven email: ick...@gmdzi.uucp
D-5205 Sankt Augustin 1, FRG phone: (+49 2241) 14-2443
Eric Hvozda
>
>Trivia eh?
>Well, then you know what HASP is!
Nope, but I have worked with the messages. Please tell us...
Barry Shein
>Anyone
>got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
SPOOL is an acronym, I'm sure of that, damned if I remember for what
tho.
--
-Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | {xylogics,uunet}!world!bzs | b...@world.std.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Jim Pepin
the manned space stuff, I think about 70ish. I still remember the
first 360/75 that was sent to JPL from Houston (JPL always got the hand me
downs then, do they still?). There was an FSD guy named Tommy Biggs who was
the group leader of the FSD group that came down to stupport RTOS (which
JPL called JPLOS), RTOS was OS/MVT with 'extenstions'. Well the 75
filled the back of a room in the SFOF and Tommy walked in and put his arm
around the shoulder of a JPL systems type (Tommy was about 6' 5" and about
260 pounds or so) and pointed at the 75s hugh light panel and said in his
Texas drawl "aint she pretty". Well i guess you had to be there.
HASP grew in to JES2.
As an interesting side light RTOS/JPLOS grew away from HASP as there was a
'war' between the HASP group (local mod types) and the O/S supplied reader
writter groups. Turns out they died off, hasp grew, eventually IBM made it the
most popular form of spooling, now basically the standard (except for a few
JES3 sites).
Do you remember the drowned 75 in sfof in 72 or so when the roof leaked through
the a/c ducts or the 75 with ceiling tiles dumped on it by the sylmar
earthquake? Ah the good old days when computers big enough to fill a house
and 20 megabytes were a bank of disks that cost $500,000..
Tom Littauer
>In article <65...@eos.UUCP> eug...@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes:
>>Trivia eh?
>>Well, then you know what HASP is!
>
>Houston Automatic Spooling and Priority system. Developed by NASA for the
>360 model 91 which put us on the moon, I believe.
It ran on more than the -91. I ran it on a -50 in the late '60s. The name
is right (or close), although at the time the joke was that it stood for
Half-ASP (ASP being ancestor of what is now JES3, as HASP was the ancestor
of JES2). As I recall ASP stood for something like Attached Spool Processor...
anybody remember for sure?
--
UUCP: litt...@amdahl.amdahl.com
or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,ames,uunet}!amdahl!littauer
DDD: (408) 737-5056
USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 278, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086
I'll tell you when I'm giving you the party line. The rest of the time
it's my very own ravings (accept no substitutes).
steven.mikes
HASP: Houston Automated Spooling Program, a job execution and print queueing
subsystem widely used in OS/MVT in the late 60's and early & mid 70's, that
was subsequently replaced by its latter day component known as JES, the
Job Entry Subsystem - still in use today in various incarnations (JES2 &
JES3) on modern MVS systems.
Steve
--
e-mail: {att!}pjspot!smikes -> Phone: (201) 615-4718
#include <std.disclaimer> "I said it, not my company!"
"This space for rent"
Bengt G{llmo, L M Ericsson, Stockholm, Sweden
(Ken Hornstein) writes:
> Here a question for all people who know much more than me: On IBM VM/CMS
> systems we have what are known as "spool" files ... aka reader files.
> And you can "spool" the virtual console. What I wanted to know, where did
> "spool" come from? I understand about reader being short for virtual card
> reader, PUN files being punch files, etc ... but "spool" mystifies me. Anyone
> got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
SPOOL means Simultaneous Peripheral Operations On-Line.
The history is as follows:
1 The first computers (1950's and earlier) operated from paper tape or
punched card input, and produced paper tape, card, or (slow) printer output.
2a When the CPUs became much faster than their I/O units (late 50's,
early 60's), this became inefficient. At about the same time, magnetic
tape came along. So most programs in big computers were made to operate
from magnetic tape to magnetic tape. The input tapes were written from
cards in off-line card-to-tape units, and the output tapes were converted
to cards or listings in similar machines (remember the IBM Periquip manual,
anyone?).
2b The card-to-tapes etc were replaced by a small computer, e.g. an IBM 1401.
3 Multiprogramming became possible in the big computers. The first
application was SPOOL. You attached the card readers, punches and
printers to the big computers again. You still did your main processing
from tape to tape, but when one job was finished, lo and behold, you could
SPOOL its output to the printer simultaneously with the next job.
Bengt G{llmo, L M Ericsson, Stockholm, Sweden
> Charley, you forgot the most interesting bit of the folklore. The
> "customary and usual" 7094 configuration had the input tape on tape drive
> number 5 and the output tape on tape drive number 6. These numbers might
> be familiar to those who have worked with Fortran, and coded:
>
> READ (5,100,END=15O) MUMBLE,FROTZ
> WRITE (6,110) SMUTZ,FROZZL
You are too modern - that is Fortran IV! In Fortran II, it was
READ INPUT TAPE 5,100,MUMBLE,FROTZ
and there was no fancy feature like END=150.
Joel B Levin
since no one will care):
PEST.
That's the Pittsburgh Executive System Tape for the IBM 7070/72/74
series. I guess it was a lot faster and simpler than the IBSYS or
whatever official OS was supposed to be used with the beast.
/JBL
=
Nets: le...@bbn.com | "There were sweetheart roses on Yancey Wilmerding's
or {...}!bbn!levin | bureau that morning. Wide-eyed and distraught, she
POTS: (617)873-3463 | stood with all her faculties rooted to the floor."
Charley Kline
>In article <63...@umd5.umd.edu>, zb...@umd5.umd.edu (Ben Cranston) writes:
>> Charley, you forgot the most interesting bit of the folklore. The
>>
>> WRITE (6,110) SMUTZ,FROZZL
>You are too modern - that is Fortran IV! In Fortran II, it was
> READ INPUT TAPE 5,100,MUMBLE,FROTZ
Actually I believe the Lawrence Livermore dialect of fortran, called
LRLTRAN, still has that old feature, along with its output equivalent,
WRITE OUTPUT TAPE, in the form of RIT and WOT statements. Took me a
while to figure out what they stood for. Me, I never had to use them;
the only LRLTRAN I touched was the kernel for the Cray Timesharing System.
Yeech.
_____
Charley Kline, University of Illinois Computing Services
c-k...@uiuc.edu
"Everyone out of the genetic pool!"
Ian Moor
On IBM's VM/CMS one method of file transfer between virtual machines is
connecting your virtual punch to the other guy's virtual reader:
SPOOL PUN TO FRED RDR ( approximately)
I can visualize that, a mechical connection between a card punch and reader,
but you can also connect your printer to a reader! The mind boggles.
--
Ian W Moor
ARPA: i...@doc.ic.ac.uk
JANET: i...@uk.ac.ic.doc
Department of Computing, There are two kinds of fool,
Imperial College. one who says, this is good because it is old,
180 Queensgate the other, this new so it's better
London SW7 UK. W.R. Inge
Elliott S. Frank
>>Trivia eh?
>>Well, then you know what HASP is!
>
>Houston Automatic Spooling and Priority system. Developed by NASA for the
>360 model 91 which put us on the moon, I believe.
Not for the /91. NASA never put one in the Johnson Space Flight Center
in Houston. In fact, they never had one. It was *five* 360/75's
(1 MIP, 1 MFLOP, no microcode) running OS/360, (release 9.5,
plus five user SVC's) that put man on the moon. All the more impressive,
when the MTBF of OS/360 on a 360/65 (1 MIP, 0.6 MFLOPS) was 20 hours.
They had a /95 (a /91 with fast [200 ns] thin-film memory) in Greenbelt
and another at the Goddard Space Flight *Research* Center in New York.
Steve Masticola
> Trivia eh?
> Well, then you know what HASP is!
Houston Automatic Spooling Program. Houston as in Space Flight Center
(before it was renamed "Johnson"). Somehow an improvement on the spool
program released by IBM, though I don't remember the details.
And now for something completely different... what's the IWM? (Hint -
it has nothing to do with spooling.)
Steven M. Bellovin
> is right (or close), although at the time the joke was that it stood for
> Half-ASP (ASP being ancestor of what is now JES3, as HASP was the ancestor
> of JES2). As I recall ASP stood for something like Attached Spool Processor...
ASP was ``Attached Support Processor''. A smaller machine would serve
several larger machines (and possibly itself), handling all unit record
I/O via channel-to-channel adapters. From the existence of ASP and HASP,
one can easily -- and correctly -- conclude that the standard reader and
printer spoolers (and the batch job scheduler) were quite inadequate.
ASP did a bit more, though; it also acted as the operator for the
CPUs it controlled. This was most important for its tape setup
capability, but it also was necessary for its CTC support -- the
operating system thought the channel adapters were tape drives. Of
course, sometimes ASP would get confused; I remember any number
of occasions when the operator would be told to mount a tape on
a piece of electronics somewhere...
Cliff Tuel
mast...@athos.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola) said...
|And now for something completely different... what's the IWM? (Hint -
|it has nothing to do with spooling.)
In the Apple world, it's the Integrated Woz Machine -- an entire disk
drive controller on one chip. It made its debut in the Apple //c.
--
____ ____ ____ __o o__ Cliff Tuel
|| || || ||__ ||__ \( v )/ ct...@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU
||___ ||___ || || || /___\ {ucbvax,voder,pyramid}!polyslo!ctuel
^ ^
Scott Dickson
The JES2 and HASP sing along on Thursday Nights at SHARE, hosted by
Charlie Forney of Penn State in his orange hula skirt.
Strange people for strange systems.....
--SCott
Marty Kuhn
I'm sure many others will reply with more knowledge of the folklore of
this term, but I sure got a kick out of this name when someone pointed
it out to me on an Apple //e motherboard several years ago! Woz always
did have an odd sense of humor. :-)
Seems to me that some Macintoshes have "IWM"'s as well as the //e and
//gs (and I suppose also the //c and //c+) Not sure about that tho'...
Other Woz folklore...
Did you know that Woz and Jobs designed/made/sold telephone blue boxes
in the years before the Apple I and ][??
Anyone know about his "Sweet-16" 16 bit emulator/assembler for the
Apple ][ ??
Woz also wrote a program which controlled the Apple's game port to act
as a serial port! (With variable baud rates!) I know a friend of mine
who used a remote printing terminal with his Apple in this manner, as
he couldn't afford a SuperSerial card! (The program appeared in one of
the original Apple ][ user manuals, I think...)
Oh well, enough ramblings for now....
--- Marty Kuhn
Charles Green
Simultaneous Peripheral Operations Off-Line
As I recall, in the early days computers were faster than output devices (some
still are :-), so a program would write its output to, say, a tape which was
then taken over to one of several printer controllers with attached tape drives
rather than keep the CPU (and following users) waiting for the printer.
Later, multitasking allowed this function to be folded back into the CPU's
spare cycles and disk storage, so maybe now it was On-Line?.
(Of course, the original name may have come from the spools of tape used...)
In article <90080.235...@psuvm.psu.edu> KXH...@psuvm.psu.edu (Ken Hornstein) writes:
>Here a question for all people who know much more than me: On IBM VM/CMS
>systems we have what are known as "spool" files ... aka reader files.
>And you can "spool" the virtual console. What I wanted to know, where did
>"spool" come from? I understand about reader being short for virtual card
>reader, PUN files being punch files, etc ... but "spool" mystifies me. Anyone
>got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
>
>| Ken Hornstein (kxh105@psuvm) | "When in doubt, I whip it out ...". |
--
"Billions of nanoseconds later..."
cha...@C3.COM {decuac.dec.com,cucstud}!c3pe!charles ex::!echo Boo:
Ken Hornstein
says:
>
>On IBM's VM/CMS one method of file transfer between virtual machines is
>connecting your virtual punch to the other guy's virtual reader:
> SPOOL PUN TO FRED RDR ( approximately)
TRANSFER is a great command. On XA systems (at least, I don't think this
will work on HPO) you can create a file, transfer it to someone who is not
logged on, and THEN transfer it to a friend. But on his screen it will show
up as him getting a file from the person you transferred it to first! And
then to add to the confusion, you can purge it from his reader without him
getting a message ... REALLY messes people up when you do this to them 30-40
times. Although, I *DID* lose my account the last time I did this :-)
Ken
Paul 'Freddy' Capper
>
>Yes, that's right, I am Ack!, Bill the Cat's fur ball... NOT the JOKER!
>
> _ /| ESH101@PSUVM Wot? These PSU's ideas? Ha!
> \ o.O` ESH...@PSUVM.PSU.EDU They don't even know how to
> =(___)= -- Ack! ESH101%PS...@PSUVAX1.UUCP *THINK*!! If I would drink, I
> U HVO...@MATH.PSU.EDU would be normal. We couldn't
> HVOZDA%MATH.PSU.EDU@PSUVM have that, now could we??
What is this PSU business? Down here in Warwick we have a computer
society where the guy in charge ( me at the moment ) is called the
pseudo super user or PSU c.f. the Un*x Super User. I think I can think
but there again I'm not IBM.... ;-}
Have a mad day,
-Freddy
_____________________________________________________________________________
| Paul 'Freddy' Capper | | . . |
| phura@everywhere | It's astounding, Time is fleeting, | o |
| University of Warwick | Madness takes it's toll... (Rick O'Brien) | \_/ |
\_______________________|___________________________________________|_____/
Ken Yap
|Apple ][ ??
Yup, Byte published an article on this. Back when Byte was still a
hobbyist magazine.
M.R.Murphy
>In article <90080.235...@psuvm.psu.edu> KXH...@psuvm.psu.edu (Ken Hornstein) writes:
>>Anyone got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
>
>spool = "simultaneous peripheral operation on line"
>
>It meant that the computer could drive the card readers, card punches,
>and line printers simultaneously with the compute load. Formerly, the
>peripherals were attached to small computers, such as an IBM 1401, which
>transferred card or line images to/from magnetic tape. The tape was
>hand-carried to/from the "mainframe" which then didn't burden itself with
>running the slow peripherals while it had more important computing to do.
It wasn't the burdening with running slow peripherals. It was the problem
of waiting for slow operators :-). The systems of which we speak, say the
IBM 7094, or the IBM 7090, were single (count it, 1) job at a time systems.
After a job finished, one could wait for an operator to set up another job
get the cards, read 'em in, find the output,..., or, one could set up a
stream of jobs (now where did job stream come from) on magtape using a cheap
computer (relatively) so that the 709x could just read the next job from tape
with negligible delay. Multi-processing in action. Then, think how slick it
would be if you hooked a cheaper box to an expensive box directly, hence the
7044/7094 DCS where the 7044 handled the unit record I/O. My favorite was of
course the IBM 5081 unit record device.
When folks figured that computers were capable of concurrent operation and
could be interrupted from one task to perform another, then it was reasonable
to have one box manage its own I/O and its own compute load.
Enough of these grey boxes that blink blue, green, red, and white. I wanna
talk about blue boxes and salmon-pink boxes and little boxes covered with
wood-grain paper and how the little ticky-tacky boxes of today have no good
flashing lights at all :-(.
--
Mike Murphy Sceard Systems, Inc. 544 South Pacific St. San Marcos, CA 92069
m...@Sceard.COM {hp-sdd,nosc,ucsd,uunet}!sceard!mrm +1 619 471 0655
Michael Ardai
If I remember correctly, it was an interpreter that emulated an RCA 1802
micro. (Strange chip - sixteen 16 bit registers and an 8 bit ALU! I
still have an elf somewhere around here :-}
/mike
\|/ Michael L. Ardai ar...@bu-pub.bu.edu
--- ---------------------------------------------------------------
/|\
Robert Krawitz
]Anyone know about his "Sweet-16" 16 bit emulator/assembler for the
]Apple ][ ??
Yup. I have the appropriate issue of Byte around somewhere (unless my
parents tossed it). It was published (oh, for the good old days before
lawyers!) sometime between August 1977 and July 1978. It was a really
neat concept, but I never had a 6502 box. I might have given a copy to
a friend who had a Commodore Pet (the first version with the chiclet
keyboard).
There was some really neat source code in those old mags (which I
acquired mostly around 1980~1982). I remember seeing the source for an
8080 spacewar program.
The thing I remember reading about Sweet 16 was that it was efficient
enough to be used for real things, not just as a curiosity. If I
remember right, Integer Basic was partially written in it, but my memory
might be all shot.
--
ames >>>>>>>>> | Robert Krawitz <r...@think.com> 245 First St.
bloom-beacon > |think!rlk (postmaster) Cambridge, MA 02142
harvard >>>>>> . Thinking Machines Corp. (617)876-1111
Thomas Lapp
> would be if you hooked a cheaper box to an expensive box directly, hence the
> 7044/7094 DCS where the 7044 handled the unit record I/O. My favorite was of
> course the IBM 5081 unit record device.
How did it come about that IBM's mainframe I/O was offloaded into a processor
of its own (which became the 3705), rather than having the CPU do I/O like
most of the other systems we now have?
> Enough of these grey boxes that blink blue, green, red, and white. I wanna
> talk about blue boxes and salmon-pink boxes and little boxes covered with
> wood-grain paper and how the little ticky-tacky boxes of today have no good
> flashing lights at all :-(.
Can't do much for the flashy lights (I wish they were there too), but I've
heard that you can get a 3745 FEP in any number of designer colours.
> Mike Murphy Sceard Systems, Inc. 544 South Pacific St. San Marcos, CA 92069
> m...@Sceard.COM {hp-sdd,nosc,ucsd,uunet}!sceard!mrm +1 619 471 0655
- tom
--
internet : mvac23!tho...@udel.edu or thomas%mva...@udel.edu
uucp : {ucbvax,mcvax,psuvax1,uunet}!udel!mvac23!thomas
Europe Bitnet: THOMAS1@GRATHUN1
Location: Newark, DE, USA
Quote : The only way to win thermonuclear war is not to play.
--
The UUCP Mailer
Steven M. Bellovin
> The 360/91 was one of the first computers with caching
> and pipelining (to my knowledge). Any other Princeton
> folks out there?
>
> Michael Stimac
Actually, I don't believe that the /91 had a cache; I think that the
360/85 was the first model IBM introduced with one. It definitely
had pipelining (*love* those imprecise interrupts), but it was hardly
the first machine to do that; that honor, I belive, goes to the IBM 7030,
a.k.a. Stretch. And I'm fairly certain that caching goes back a few
years before the 360/91; wasn't it Wilkes's idea?
Ken Hornstein
says:
>
>What is this PSU business? Down here in Warwick we have a computer
>society where the guy in charge ( me at the moment ) is called the
>pseudo super user or PSU c.f. the Un*x Super User. I think I can think
>but there again I'm not IBM.... ;-}
PSU - Pennsylvania State University.
Ken
Michael Stimac
>In article <12...@ucsd.Edu> g...@ucsd.edu (Gerard K. Newman) writes:
>>In article <65...@eos.UUCP> eug...@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes:
>>>Trivia eh?
>>>Well, then you know what HASP is!
>>
>>Houston Automatic Spooling and Priority system. Developed by NASA for the
>>360 model 91 which put us on the moon, I believe.
>
>It ran on more than the -91. I ran it on a -50 in the late '60s. The name
>is right (or close), although at the time the joke was that it stood for
>Half-ASP (ASP being ancestor of what is now JES3, as HASP was the ancestor
>of JES2). As I recall ASP stood for something like Attached Spool Processor...
>anybody remember for sure?
>--
We had ASP at Princeton in the late '60s. The acronym was
"Attach(ed) Support Processor" (spooling was a side-effect).
The attached processor functioned as a programmed operator
for the main computer; doing things like adjusting priorities
of jobs, submitting jobs in the "best" order and so on,
and generally overcoming deficiencies in "Big OZ" (MVT).
HASP was routinely used at many sites; Princeton was one
of very few sites to have ASP. ASP was installed more or
less in conjunction with our acquiring the 360/91. ASP
usurped control of MVT through a hack using a user
appendage to a device driver routine.
Steve Lamont
> PEST.
>That's the Pittsburgh Executive System Tape for the IBM 7070/72/74
>series. I guess it was a lot faster and simpler than the IBSYS or
>whatever official OS was supposed to be used with the beast.
Wasn't IBSYS originally written by some folks associated with SHARE? The
folklore I heard was that the IBJOB operation system was such a piece of trash
that the users of the system rose up and wrote their own O/S. Any old 70xx
hackers out there who remember?
By the way, speaking of folklore and names of operating systems, what was the
name of the operating system that the National Security Agency used on its
Crays (and maybe other machines??) before they converted to UNICOS? (Sort of
a trick question)
--
Steve Lamont, sciViGuy (919) 248-1120 EMail: s...@ncsc.org
NCSC, Box 12732, Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
"...though you may have the falcon yet we certainly have you."
Dashiell Hammett, _The Maltese Falcon_
Werner Icking
>In article <63...@umd5.umd.edu>, zb...@umd5.umd.edu (Ben Cranston) writes:
[...]
>You are too modern - that is Fortran IV! In Fortran II, it was
> READ INPUT TAPE 5,100,MUMBLE,FROTZ
>and there was no fancy feature like END=150.
But once I mistyped
WRITE INPUT TAPE 5, ... or may be
WRITE OUTPUT TAPE 5, ...
and it was not rejected neither by the compiler nor by the system (?) or by
the tape unit. I think the tape units did'nt have write protection rings; but
I'm not sure.
The operation succeeded, the input tape was overwritten i.e. all the job
SPOOLed (:-() after mine were not processed.
I was a student at that time and (therefore) the system administrator wanted
to sever my account. But I could convince him that the system really made the
error and not me. (~1966)
--
Werner Icking
Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung mbH (GMD)
Schloss Birlinghoven email: ick...@gmdzi.uucp
D-5205 Sankt Augustin 1, FRG phone: (+49 2241) 14-2443
Werner Icking
>"Ooh! Ooh! I know! Pick me! Pick me!!" (hands waving frantically)
> Simultaneous Peripheral Operations Off-Line
[...]
IBM Form 71 032-1 Fachausdruecke der Datenverarbeitung
englisch / deutsch
Mai 1967
...
SPOOL - SIMULTANEOUS PERIPHERAL SPOOL (PROGRAMMSTEUERSYSTEM FUER
OPERATIONS ON LINE GLEICHZEITIGES ARBEITEN D.
^^^^ EIN/AUSGABE WAEHREND EIN
ANDERES RECHENINTENSIVES
PROGRAMM LAEUFT)
programmcontrolsystem for
simultaneously working of input/output
while another cpu-intensiv program runs.
(that's germish)
Bill Poser
>What was the name of the operating system that the National Security
>Agency used on its Crays (and maybe other machines??) before they
>converted to UNICOS?
Surely NSOS (No Such Operating System). :)
Bengt G{llmo, L M Ericsson, Stockholm, Sweden
> As I recall ASP stood for something like Attached Spool Processor...
> anybody remember for sure?
Attached Support Processor
Charley Kline
>The RCA 1802 also had a (fairly unique) feature that *every* instruction
>took the same number of cycles (two). I saw a interesting writeup years
>ago on how two RCA 1802s were hooked up in a 'lock step' fashion so that
>both processors could access all the memory, etc of the system because they
>were always out of phase with each other. An interesting approach to
>multi-processor system design.
This isn't true. Instructions were either two or three cycles. One in
particular I remembered as taking three cycles was NOP; some of the
others were I believe the SKIP instructions and maybe some of the
interrupt action (such as it was) instructions. I'll check my manual
when I get home.
Neat chip, the 1802. Once I realized it really "liked" to be operated
as a stack machine. The business of the 8-bit accumulator "D register"
and 16-bit registers was definitely annoying though. There were PLO and
PHI instructions for storing D into the upper or lower byte of a
register, and similar GLO and GHI instructions for the inverse.
Thanks for triggering fond memories!
_____
Charley Kline, University of Illinois Computing Services.
c-k...@uiuc.edu
Charley Kline
>a...@grendal.Sun.COM (Andrew MacRae) writes:
>>The RCA 1802 also had a (fairly unique) feature that *every* instruction
>>took the same number of cycles (two).
>This isn't true. Instructions were either two or three cycles. One in
>particular I remembered as taking three cycles was NOP; some of the
>others were I believe the SKIP instructions and maybe some of the
>interrupt action (such as it was) instructions. I'll check my manual
>when I get home.
Okay, as promised (aren't you thrilled?) I have my ancient CDP1802 User
Manual here. All instructions are two cycles except the Long Branches
(branches to a different page of memory than the one we're in), and the Long
Skips (which skip ahead TWO bytes instead of ONE byte like the Short Skip).
For some reason NOP is snuggled right in there with the Long Branches, so it
also takes three cycles. Maybe so you can throw in a 3-cycle NOP to get your
program back on the even numbering of the next guy after doing a Long
Branch.
Interesting fact here: Interrupt action is ONE CYCLE. Amazingly low overhead
if you ask me. Of course it was then up to the program to deal with saving
state, there is a SAVE instruction (two cycles) to do that.
All in all a nice little microcontroller, if a bit dated.
_____
Charley Kline, University of Illinois Computing Services
Henry Spencer
>The 360/91 was one of the first computers with caching
The 91 had no cache, but it was pipelined to an extent seldom seen before
or since. The 85, a rather simpler machine with a cache, performed nearly
as well and sold a lot better, a lesson that was not lost on IBM...
--
"Apparently IBM is not IBM | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
compatible." -Andy Tanenbaum | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry he...@zoo.toronto.edu
Gerard K. Newman
>name of the operating system that the National Security Agency used on its
>Crays (and maybe other machines??) before they converted to UNICOS? (Sort of
>a trick question)
Why, Folklore, of course. I think there were others.
gkn
ps - DEC hasn't apologized for the Lynx; I still have 3. Want 'em ;-) Make
you a deal -- I'll throw in (up?) two DRB32-C VAX Supercomputer gateway boards...
Henry Troup
>
>In article <65...@eos.UUCP> eug...@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes:
>>Trivia eh?
>>Well, then you know what HASP is!
>
>Houston Automatic Spooling and Priority system. Developed by NASA for the
Harvard, wasn't it ?
--
Henry Troup - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
..uunet!bnrgate!hwt%bwdlh490 or H...@BNR.CA
Andrew MacRae
>If I remember correctly, it was an interpreter that emulated an RCA 1802
>micro. (Strange chip - sixteen 16 bit registers and an 8 bit ALU! I
>still have an elf somewhere around here :-}
The RCA 1802 also had a (fairly unique) feature that *every* instruction
Otto Tennant
still classified. But I think the CRAYs were running AMOK.
Phil Gustafson
>
>The 91 had no cache, but it was pipelined to an extent seldom seen before
>or since. The 85, a rather simpler machine with a cache, performed nearly
>as well and sold a lot better, a lesson that was not lost on IBM...
There were other issues, too. The 91 was heavily oriented to floating point,
unruly in its handling of interrupts, and really, really, expensive.
The 85 was more in line with the slower "compatible" series.
[The interrupt unruliness was caused by the pipelining -- an interrupt could be
three or four instructions too late on FP errors.]
The first IBM supercomputer, the Stretch, was sort of a prototype for the Big
Blue top-of-the-line-real-expensive-doesn't-work-too-well-only-a-dozen-made
series. See Bell and Newell for a description of this beast, down to the
weird gates it used. It was pipelined.
The Stretch was the first computer I know of to have an optional tunnel-diode
memory. It was installed on one and only one machine, and I know of no further
use of the technology.
phil
Brent Williams
> In article <33...@tymix.UUCP> ro...@hobbes.UUCP (Michael Stimac) writes:
>>The 360/91 was one of the first computers with caching
>>and pipelining (to my knowledge)...
>
> The 91 had no cache, but it was pipelined to an extent seldom seen before
> or since. The 85, a rather simpler machine with a cache, performed nearly
> as well and sold a lot better, a lesson that was not lost on IBM...
I had the privelege of getting a guided tour of the 360/91 at UCLA just
before its retirement in 1979. The 91 had the most impressive front
panel of any computer I've ever seen -- 3' x 6' of blinkenlites, most
of which were going at any one time. The cables to the memory boxes
were about as thick as your arm. And the roar of that water-cooling
was on the scale of Niagara Falls. It may not have been the simplest
machine IBM ever built, but it was certainly the most intimidating
computer I have ever seen.
My understanding was that they only built about 26 of them, and most
went to various intelligence agencies in the Government. UCLA had
two that (I think) they got secondhand -- one as the main academic
computer, and one in the medical center.
-brent williams
ingres corporation tech marketing
Dale A. Samuelsen
In article <90080.235...@psuvm.psu.edu>, KXH...@psuvm.psu.edu
(Ken Hornstein) writes:
>Here a question for all people who know much more than me: On IBM VM/CMS
>systems we have what are known as "spool" files ... aka reader files.
>And you can "spool" the virtual console. What I wanted to know, where did
>"spool" come from? I understand about reader being short for virtual card
>reader, PUN files being punch files, etc ... but "spool" mystifies me.
Anyone
>got any folklore on the significance of "spool"?
In his book _The Devil's DP Dictionary_, Stan Kelly-Bootle defines spool
as follows:
Spool n & v [Origin uncertain: perhaps blend of spoof & fool.] 1 n. A
highly volatile buffer established to hold surplus data (known as results)
for a period not exceeding the MTTR (Mean Time To Repair) of the
particular output device being spooled. 2. v.trans. To expose (data) to
the dangers of residing in a spool. 3. v.intrans. To shed previous
results in order to proceed with more important computations; to pass the
buck.
Hope this helps :-)
Dale A. Samuelsen
Baylor College of Medicine
da...@bcm.tmc.edu
--Any opinions expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily represent
those of Baylor College of Medicine.
Ken Yap
|>|Apple ][ ??
|>
|>Yup, Byte published an article on this. Back when Byte was still a
|>hobbyist magazine.
|
|If I remember correctly, it was an interpreter that emulated an RCA 1802
|micro. (Strange chip - sixteen 16 bit registers and an 8 bit ALU! I
|still have an elf somewhere around here :-}
My memory says the instruction set wasn't that of any existing micro,
it was made up by whats-his-name (Flystra? help me here). I remember
reimplementing S-16 on the 6800. Of course this is really important to
know some 15 years later. :-)
Bengt G{llmo, L M Ericsson, Stockholm, Sweden
> But once I mistyped
>
> WRITE INPUT TAPE 5, ... or may be
> WRITE OUTPUT TAPE 5, ...
>
> and it was not rejected neither by the compiler nor by the system (?) or by
> the tape unit. I think the tape units did'nt have write protection rings; but
> I'm not sure.
>
> The operation succeeded, the input tape was overwritten i.e. all the job
> SPOOLed (:-() after mine were not processed.
>
> I was a student at that time and (therefore) the system administrator wanted
> to sever my account. But I could convince him that the system really made the
> error and not me. (~1966)
The tapes had file protection rings all right, and it was careless of some
operator not to pull it out on that input tape. But the compiler couldn't
care less. It was perfectly legal from a language point of view to call the
output tape 5 and write to it. 5 for input and 6 for output was just a
convention.
Steven M. Bellovin
> [The interrupt unruliness was caused by the pipelining -- an interrupt could be
> three or four instructions too late on FP errors.]
``Three or four''? You must have hit a best-case... I recall one
program I wrote (for Columbia University's 360/91) where I got a
zero-divide interrupt 14 instructions later. I'm not exagerating;
I counted. There were only two divide instructions in the entire
program, and the other was by a constant that the SYSUDUMP (remember
those?) showed to be intact.
There were other oddities in that machine. For example, it had
16-way interleaved memory -- which made some operations on 257x257
matrices faster than 256x256, since the latter tended to beat on
the same memory box all the time.
But it did have *great* blinkenlites. My SPARCstation is much faster,
and has 8 times the memory the old clunker had, and it's all mine --
but the only light is a stupid little ``power on'' thingy.
Jeremy J. Epstein
> There were other oddities in that machine. For example, it had
> 16-way interleaved memory -- which made some operations on 257x257
> matrices faster than 256x256, since the latter tended to beat on
> the same memory box all the time.
The Burroughs Scientific Processor (BSP) had some interesting
characteristics like that. BSP had a scalar unit and a parallel
unit (I don't remember the acronyms any more). The parallel unit
was 16 lockstep processors. To avoid problems with the processors
waiting for the memory, they used 17 way interleaved memory. Thus,
accesses would NEVER hit the same memory bank unless you used multiples
of 17, which doesn't happen naturally in too many parallel programs :-)
I was told that Burroughs wanted to patent the use of (2**n)+1 way
memory for all "n".
For those who never heard of it, the BSP was a late-70s/early-80s
attempt by Burroughs to compete with Cray. It used a B6700 or B7700
as a front end, and was water cooled. I think a few were sold...
--
Jeremy Epstein
TRW Systems Division
703-876-4202
j...@virtech.uu.net
James R. B. Davies
In article <1990Mar30....@virtech.uucp>, j...@virtech.uucp
(Jeremy J. Epstein) writes:
|>
|> The Burroughs Scientific Processor (BSP) had some interesting
|> characteristics like that. BSP had a scalar unit and a parallel
|> unit (I don't remember the acronyms any more). The parallel unit
|> was 16 lockstep processors. To avoid problems with the processors
|> waiting for the memory, they used 17 way interleaved memory. Thus,
|> accesses would NEVER hit the same memory bank unless you used multiples
|> of 17, which doesn't happen naturally in too many parallel programs :-)
|>
The interesting thing about the 17-way interleaving is that it required
a modulo-17 calculation in the addressing hardware. Normal power-of-two
interleaving schemes make for much easier bank calculation, since you
essentially just take a few bits out of word to address the bank, but in
the BSP it was necessary to do arithmetic instead. They had a special
piece of hardware to do this divide so that it would be fast enough.
The BSP could also do two-dimensional vector operations (complete with
a skip between columns).
I have heard that they built one BSP, and had one order in hand.
The BSP project was scrapped because they were using a hard-to-get chip
technology, and their supplier (which was within Burroughs)
discontinued the manufacture of their chips.
Michael Stimac
>In article <1990Mar26.1...@utzoo.uucp> he...@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
>>
>>The 91 had no cache, but it was pipelined to an extent seldom seen before
>>or since. The 85, a rather simpler machine with a cache, performed nearly
>>as well and sold a lot better, a lesson that was not lost on IBM...
>
>There were other issues, too. The 91 was heavily oriented to floating point,
>unruly in its handling of interrupts, and really, really, expensive.
>The 85 was more in line with the slower "compatible" series.
>
>[The interrupt unruliness was caused by the pipelining -- an interrupt could be
>three or four instructions too late on FP errors.]
>
Perhaps "cache" isn't the proper term; I was thinking of the buffer
which held the last block read from memory (16 words, I think). If
a subsequent memory read was within the same block, no access to
actual memory was made. There was a "tight-loop" lamp on the console,
which came on when the execution was looping within the 16 word
buffer. It's been 20 years, I may mis-remember some of the details.
There were two access paths to memory, as I recall. Also, there
was one fixed point processor, and two floating point processors
which could all be computing parts of different instructions
simultaneously. No wonder some interrupts were "imprecise"!
Many of these ideas came from Stretch. I'm wondering if the
91 wasn't the first commercial availability of these ideas?
Didn't the 85 come (soon) afterward?
And, yes, it was ridiculously expensive. Ours ran global weather-
modelling programs all night long.
Michael Stimac
James THIELE
>In article <10...@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, ph...@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Phil Gustafson) writes:
>> [The interrupt unruliness was caused by the pipelining -- an interrupt could be
>> three or four instructions too late on FP errors.]
>
>
>But it did have *great* blinkenlites. My SPARCstation is much faster,
>and has 8 times the memory the old clunker had, and it's all mine --
>but the only light is a stupid little ``power on'' thingy.
I have fond memories of machines with blinking lights. The High Energy
Physics people at Purdue (circa. 1977) had a 360 model 40 which had
a habit of hanging - you'd look at the lights after the card reader had
stopped for 3 or 4 seconds to see if it was dead or just slow.
My favorite blinken light machine was a NanoData QM-1 which was for
microcoding, and had an LED on every bit of every register and every
bit of the 144-bit wide instruction register, over 2000 LEDs in all.
The best use for this machine (besides room heater, it used 74Sxx chips)
was a program called TSQ, short for Times Square, which put a running
message in the lights. Pretty cool, huh?
I wish computer designers would recognize the importance of blinking
lights and put more of them on machines. They'd be much more informative
than the silly bit-mapped display on my Mac. :-)
James Thiele
Daniel P. Faigin
>UCLA had two that (I think) ...one as the main academic
Serial numbers 5 and 11, if I remember correctly
Daniel
--
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Avi Belinsky
>IWM? That's the Incredible Woz Machine of course!
>
Back in the early eighties when my dad had an Apple //e and my best friend's
dad had an IBM PC we used to have daily fights about which was the better
company.
One of the rumours I heard at the time (that I loved to rub in) was that IBM
used an IWM chip in their PCs and that Apple got a commission on every PC sold.
Can anyone confirm/deny this?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Avi Belinsky Electrical Engineering, University of Waterloo
abel...@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
(519) 747-0437 - Home abel...@sunee.waterloo.edu
(519) 888-4762 - Office ...uunet!watmath!sunee!abelinsk
Elliott S. Frank
>
>Serial numbers 5 and 11, if I remember correctly
Ok. Since it was a limited production machine (13 360/91's + 2 360/95's)
who were the other recipients? (I did some programming on the /91 at
Columbia [Hi, Steve!] and had memorized the list of recipients.)
Princeton
Columbia
NASA Goddard Space Flight Resarch Center (both /95's)
UCLA (2)
???????
Trivia question of the day: Who almost got delivery of the one and only
Burroughs B8000/8500? What happened instead?
--
Elliott Frank ...!{hplabs,ames,sun}!amdahl!esf00 (408) 746-6384
or ....!{bnrmtv,drivax,hoptoad}!amdahl!esf00
[the above opinions are strictly mine, if anyone's.]
[the above signature may or may not be repeated, depending upon some
inscrutable property of the mailer-of-the-week.]
Mark Wilkins
>One of the rumours I heard at the time (that I loved to rub in) was that IBM
>used an IWM chip in their PCs and that Apple got a commission on every PC sold.
Probably not true, because that would make Apple disks readable on PCs.
PCs use MFM encoding for 5 1/4, 3 1/2, and hard disk drives, a scheme which
is much different than the encoding scheme which Apple's IWM supports.
-- Mark Wilkins
Christopher Pettus
>used an IWM chip in their PCs and that Apple got a commission on every PC sold.
Nope, not a chance. Good story, though.
--
Christopher Pettus, Network Connectivity Development, Apple Computer, Inc.
MS 35-K -- 408/974-0004 -- c...@apple.com -- sun!apple!cep -- link PETTUS.C
Mark Nelson
Actually, it's Folklore.
I guess that this must be the appropriate newsgroup to discuss it.
If my sources are right, it was written in a language called IMP,
and utilities names were full of puns on mythical creatures.
--
Mark Nelson ...!uunet!udel!nelson or nel...@udel.edu
This function is occasionally useful as an argument to other functions
that require functions as arguments. -- Guy Steele, Jr.
Brian Utterback
OS internals class was the only one given at night (because the lecture would
lead into the lab) so the place was pretty much empty. One day before a break
the instructor asked us what was the derivation of the acronym SPOOL.
Most of us hadn't realized it WAS an acronym. Nobody knew, so during the break
we went into every instructors office looking for DP dictionaries. We finally
found an ancient IBMish dictionary which gave the derivation as follows:
SPOOL : Simultaneous Peripheral Operation On-Line.
Persumably programs previously were unable to operate during on-line I/O
--
Brian Utterback, Millipore Corporation, 75G Wiggins Ave., Bedford Ma. 01730
Work:617-275-9200x8245, Home:603-891-2536
INTERNET:: b...@millipore.millipore.com
UUCP:: {samsung,cg-atla,merk,wang,bu-tyng}!millipore!blu
Henry Spencer
>Ok. Since it was a limited production machine (13 360/91's + 2 360/95's)...
This brings to mind something I've always wondered about: just which 360/9x
machines actually existed, and what were the differences between them?
I assume they were minor variations on the same basic hardware?
--
Apollo @ 8yrs: one small step.| Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
Space station @ 8yrs: .| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry he...@zoo.toronto.edu
Elliott S. Frank
>
>This brings to mind something I've always wondered about: just which 360/9x
>machines actually existed, and what were the differences between them?
As well as I can remember, there were two variants: the "basic" 360/91,
and the 360/95, which was a /91 with fast (200 ns??) thin-film memory
replacing the (600 ns??) core. I remember hearing stories of exotic
variants that never made it out of Poughkeepsie -- memory-to-memory
capabilities, special kinds of I/O, etc.
Most /91's had only the minimum 2 MB of memory that came with the machine.
Since the machine was limited production, it was sold to educational
institutions and government agencies at a special price for the basic
configuration. Additional memory was priced at the 'standard' price of
IBM memory at that time -- a dollar a byte.
The /91 did spawn the 360/195, which solved the imprecise interrupt
problem. The /195 was a commercial success, selling lots of machines.
It also spawned the Amdahl 470, as the design team (Dr. Gene Amdahl,
Dr. Lin Wu and others) wanted to do a machine in ECL (an "exotic
technology" at that time) rather than the NMOS that IBM was using as its
primary process. The /91 was DTL, with a hand-tuned backplane.
Jack Campin
nel...@ee.udel.edu (Mark Nelson) wrote:
>> s...@duck.ncsc.org (Steve Lamont) writes:
>>> What was the name of the operating system that the National Security
>>> Agency used on its Crays (and maybe other machines??) before they
>>> converted to UNICOS?
> Actually, it's Folklore.
> If my sources are right, it was written in a language called IMP,
> and utilities names were full of puns on mythical creatures.
Is that any relation to the Edinburgh IMP? That was a systems programming
language used by the Edinburgh University Computing Centre to implement
their EMAS (Edinburgh Multi-Access System) OS on ICL mainframes (1900 and
2900 series; I think the 3900 caching and pipelining schemes make EMAS
unusable). I believe the parser was written by an AI hacker using
natural-language parsing techniques; you could have embedded spaces in
identifier names.
I've never even seen any IMP source, so all this is hearsay.
--
-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank
Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland 041 339 8855 x6044 work 041 556 1878 home
JANET: ja...@cs.glasgow.ac.uk BANG!net: via mcvax and ukc FAX: 041 330 4913
INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: ja...@glasgow.uucp
Terry Kennedy
>My favorite blinken light machine was a NanoData QM-1 which was for
>microcoding, and had an LED on every bit of every register and every
>bit of the 144-bit wide instruction register, over 2000 LEDs in all.
I once worked on an HP 3000. This one had these 2 large panels with lots
of LED's on them on either side of the operator's CRT. I later met another
3000 that looked nothing like the one I saw; perhaps the one I used was a
prototype? [This was in the early 70's.]
Terry Kennedy Operations Manager, Academic Computing
te...@spcvxa.bitnet St. Peter's College, US
te...@spcvxa.spc.edu (201) 915-9381
Bob Hoffman
>microcoding, and had an LED on every bit of every register and every
>bit of the 144-bit wide instruction register, over 2000 LEDs in all.
I remember seeing one at the 1979 National Computer Conference in New York.
In its idle mode, the LEDs would spell out QM-1 in large letters. I just
ran across a brochure for it yesterday, but unfortunately they had the
doors closed on the cabinet when they took the picture.
I *LIKE* blinkenlights. On our old PDP-11/45, the Unix OS had a feature
whereby it would read the console switches, peek into that location in
kernel data space, then show the value in the console display register.
I think it was 2.9bsd that allowed this.
>I wish computer designers would recognize the importance of blinking
>lights and put more of them on machines. They'd be much more informative
>than the silly bit-mapped display on my Mac. :-)
Ditto!
---Bob.
--
Bob Hoffman, N3CVL {allegra, bellcore, cadre, idis, psuvax1}!pitt!hoffman
Pitt Computer Science hof...@cs.pitt.edu
Simon Rosenthal
>
>>> s...@duck.ncsc.org (Steve Lamont) writes:
>>>> What was the name of the operating system that the National Security
>
>> If my sources are right, it was written in a language called IMP,
>> and utilities names were full of puns on mythical creatures.
>
>Is that any relation to the Edinburgh IMP? That was a systems programming
>language used by the Edinburgh University Computing Centre to implement
>their EMAS (Edinburgh Multi-Access System) OS on ICL mainframes (1900 and
>2900 series; I think the 3900 caching and pipelining schemes make EMAS
>unusable). I believe the parser was written by an AI hacker using
>natural-language parsing techniques; you could have embedded spaces in
>identifier names.
Is IMP <<still>> around at Edinburgh ?? It was developed in the 60's
and was a descendant of Atlas Autocode (as used on the Manchester Atlas
machine). I used the language 20 years ago on various machines: the
KDF9, English Electric System 4, and an IBM 360/50. I'm surprised that
it (and EMAS, which was very impressive for its time, IMHO) have
survived. And it's worthy of note that the implementation of EMAS in
IMP pre-dates UNIX implemented in C by a few years ..
-----------------------------
Simon Rosenthal:
Concurrent Computer Corporation
Westford, MA 01886
Internet: si...@westford.ccur.com
uucp: {uunet,harvard}!masscomp!simon
Bruce Walker
> >IWM? That's the Incredible Woz Machine of course!
> used an IWM chip in their PCs and that Apple got a commission on every PC sold
Definitely NOT true. The IBM PC (& XT, AT, PS/2 ...) used a Nippon Electric
Corp. uPD765 (or the Intel mask equivalent: i8272) as the formatter chip.
But the first PC floppy contoller cards shipped used some of those really
mysterious "little grey cans" that seem to populate the insides of IBM
equipment. These things are little potted hybrids with analog and digital
stuff inside and 47 digit numbers on the top to obscure their functions.
The schematic "revealed" that they were phase-locked loops for the data
seperator -- amazing! it took three of these things, at what must have been
great cost, to do this relatively simple function.
My rumour (that I tried to spread unsuccessfully myself) was that there was
a warehouse down in Armonk somewhere that had several bins of these hybrids
that had been gathering dust for a while and that a design edict had been
issued that said, "You guys in Florida, design anything you like. Just make
sure that you find some use for these PLL thingies so we don't have to
write 'em off."
--
Bruce Walker ...uunet!utai!lsuc!isgtec!bmw b...@isgtec.uucp
"I'd give us about one chance in three. No one wants more tea?" -Red Oct.
ISG Technologies Inc. 3030 Orlando Dr. Mississauga. Ont. Can. L4V 1S8
Steven M. Bellovin
> I *LIKE* blinkenlights. On our old PDP-11/45, the Unix OS had a feature
> whereby it would read the console switches, peek into that location in
> kernel data space, then show the value in the console display register.
> I think it was 2.9bsd that allowed this.
Hardly; that feature goes way back. I used it heavily when working on
a DZ driver for 6th Edition; it was a convenient way to monitor some of
the device registers. It's probably older than that, but I didn't use
5th Edition enough to know. Even after we had the driver going, we'd
set the switches to the address of the modem status register; that way,
a glance at the lights would tell you how many people were logged in.
Jack Campin
si...@westford.ccur.com (Simon Rosenthal) wrote:
> ja...@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
> Is IMP <<still>> around at Edinburgh?? It was developed in the 60's
> and was a descendant of Atlas Autocode (as used on the Manchester Atlas
> machine). I used the language 20 years ago on various machines: the
> KDF9, English Electric System 4, and an IBM 360/50. I'm surprised that
> it (and EMAS, which was very impressive for its time, IMHO) have
> survived. And it's worthy of note that the implementation of EMAS in
> IMP pre-dates UNIX implemented in C by a few years ..
Well, there is still a site emas-a.ed.ac.uk, which suggests that it still
runs EMAS, and if it runs EMAS there must be an IMP compiler to support it.
Some while ago, my email to a friend who uses our computing centre's ICL
mainframe (and has a desk 100 yards away) had to go through the EMAS node
in Edinburgh, that being the easiest way to get mail from a Unix-based site
into the twilight zone of VME; it may still go that way.
Come on, there must be *someone* at Edinburgh reading this!
Michael Meissner
In user space, I remember the CDC Kronos operating system (or maybe
just the University of Minnesota hacks) had a system call to set a
string, that would be read by the ps equivalent, so that you could
determine the status of long running programs (like what phase a
multiphase compiler is in).
--
Michael Meissner email: meis...@osf.org phone: 617-621-8861
Open Software Foundation, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA
Catproof is an oxymoron, Childproof is nearly so
James R. B. Davies
on a computer (the Goodyear blimp isn't eligible), for it has a light
for each of the tens of thousands of processors. The lights are red, and
arranged in a square array on the side of the cabinet, which resembles a
black 2X2X2 Rubik's Cube (to me, anyway).
When I saw the CM at Argonne during a class there, I was really impressed -
the lights were on almost all the time, only occasionally flickering off
in sections or (rarely) the whole display at a time. Truly neat.
It sort of dimmed my image of it when I later found out that the lights
were under software control, and normally the lights were on only when
the processor was IDLE, not when it was busy....
However, the software-controlled lights seem to have great potential for
printing messages, animation, etc., with pretty good (256x256?) resolution.
Has anyone out there ever seen any good graphics on the CM cabinet?
Robert Krawitz
]The Connection Machine may hold the world's record for blinking lights
]on a computer (the Goodyear blimp isn't eligible), for it has a light
]for each of the tens of thousands of processors. The lights are red, and
]arranged in a square array on the side of the cabinet, which resembles a
]black 2X2X2 Rubik's Cube (to me, anyway).
Well, not quite. There are 16 CM boards in each backplane (1/8 of the
full cabinet) and each has 16 LED's. A full CM-2 has lights on the
front and back, with a total of 2K lights for 64K processors, one for
every 32.
]When I saw the CM at Argonne during a class there, I was really impressed -
]the lights were on almost all the time, only occasionally flickering off
]in sections or (rarely) the whole display at a time. Truly neat.
Actually, when you're running a really long microinstruction, the lights
are usually completely static, unless the instruction itself arranges to
blink the lights.
]It sort of dimmed my image of it when I later found out that the lights
]were under software control, and normally the lights were on only when
]the processor was IDLE, not when it was busy....
Actually, the lights normally blink when the sequencer (microcontroller)
is idling (it's actually in a busy loop waiting for an instruction, and
among the things that the busy loop does, besides increment a counter
for timing purposes, is blink the lights).
]However, the software-controlled lights seem to have great potential for
]printing messages, animation, etc., with pretty good (256x256?) resolution.
]Has anyone out there ever seen any good graphics on the CM cabinet?
I've heard that one of the first programs that anyone ran on the CM-1
was a program to run Life on the lights. I've never seen that program
though.
--
ames >>>>>>>>> | Robert Krawitz <r...@think.com> 245 First St.
bloom-beacon > |think!rlk (postmaster) Cambridge, MA 02142
harvard >>>>>> . Thinking Machines Corp. (617)876-1111
Steve Sutphen
This discussion of SPOOL reminds me of a "jolly" in the introduction to
the HASP (Huston Automatic Spooling Program?) manual about version 1.0 or
2.0. It said:
"You can Spool all of the jobs some of the time ...."
Any one else remember seeing this (or have a copy of the manual, circa
1969 or '70)?
steve.
Blair M. Burtan
Does anyone have a copy of the Blinkenlights poster?
This was a pseudo-German funny thing that ended with the words
"Relaxen und vatch das blinken lights"
or something to that effect.
--
--------------------------- Signature Version 1.2 ---------------------------
| be...@bu-pub.bu.edu eng...@buacca.bu.edu |
| |
| "Love is like oxygen. You get too much, you get too high. |
| Not enough and you're gonna die. Love gets you high." |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
aNk1ez
Achtensun!
Das machinen ist nodt fur gerfingerpoken un mittengrabben.
Ist ezy fur brekken das springenwerks. Blowen fusen mit loudsch popen
und spitzensparken.Ist nix geverken by dumkoffs! Das rubberneken
sighdtseeren und stupidisch goofoffers bast relaxen. Kipp hands in
pokkets, Vatch der blinkenlights, und das stoffa vill kum oudt.
Das Manichmindt
Mark Wilkins
>Origin of the word "snarf". I've only seen it in net postings. Anyone know
>where it comes from? Thanx
>
> -- Ed Krauss
What? I've ALWAYS heard "snarf." Usually in the context of "snarfing up
food." "Snarf" is the sound one makes when one ingests a plate of food all
at once, and so on.
Other usages are probably just a result of the word sounding neat.
-- Mark Wilkins
ph11...@violet.berkeley.edu
Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879
by ph11...@violet.berkeley.edu:
> Origin of the word "snarf". I've only seen it in net postings. Anyone
> know where it comes from? Thanx
This word may well be one of the words first used in the Peanuts comic
strip. I think I remember Snoopy gulping his entire meal on the fly
with a loud snarf in some of the strips from the late '60s. If so, it
wouldn't be the first word introduced into the English language by that
strip. The phrases "Good grief" and "security blanket" are others.
Doug Jones
jo...@herky.cs.uiowa.edu
Nichael Cramer
>by ph11...@violet.berkeley.edu:
>This word may well be one of the words first used in the Peanuts comic
>strip. I think I remember Snoopy gulping his entire meal on the fly
>.... The phrases "Good grief" and "security blanket" are others.
Are you sure this wasn't "scarf"? As in "I've heard all the stories, I've
read all the reports... but one of life's great joys is scarfing junk
food".
;)
NICHAEL
Eric P. Scott
think of is in MIT's Incompatible Timesharing System (from
which BSD stole job control). If you had a job that got
horribly sick, but had subjobs you wanted to rescue, you could
:SNARF them. :SNARF would write a small program into the dead
job's address space to do the actual work, then start the job.
-=EPS=-
Jeff Mr. Spackle d'Arcy
Well, it's not quite "snarf", but on MTS I got messages saying "Job XXXX
snarked" (or some such; it's been a while but I'm sure "snarked" was in
there) a couple of times.
Jeff d'Arcy OS/Network Software Engineer jda...@encore.com
DISCLAIMER: I don't represent Encore any more than you do
Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879
by jda...@pinocchio.encore.com (Jeff "Mr. Spackle" d'Arcy):
>
> Well, it's not quite "snarf", but on MTS I got messages saying "Job XXXX
> snarked"
Read "The Hunting of the Snark" by Lewis Carroll. It's an epic poem, one
of the best, and in it, the victims of the snark "softly and silently fade
away."
Doug Jones
jo...@herky.cs.uiowa.edu
Matthew E Cross
From _Structure_and_Interpretation_of_Computer_Programs_ (pseudo-underline),
by Harold Abelson and Gerald Jay Sussman with Julie Sussman (The MIT Press,
Cambridge, Mass: 1985), Pg.316, footnote 13:
"Snarf: "To grab, especially a large document or file for the purpose of
using it either with or without the owner's permission." Snarf down: "To
snarf, sometimes with the connotation of absorbing, processing, or
understanding." (These definitions were snarfed from Steele et al. 1983.)"
This is the textbook for my scheme class, and I found this while reading the
chapter on the meta-circular evaluator. (I thought it was quite humorous!)
--
+----------------------------------------------------+------------------------+
|"You only live once so take hold of the chance, | prof...@wpi.wpi.edu |
| Don't end up like others the same song and dance!" | prof...@wpi.bitnet |
| -"Motorbreath", by Metallica | Really: - Matt Cross - |
aNk1ez
using it either with or without the author's permission. See BLT.
Variant: SNARF (IT) DOWN. (At MIT on ITS, DDT has a command called
:SNARF which grabs a job from another (inferior) DDT.)
So, obviously (or not so, whatever) its not *just* used on net postings,
although that may be where it originated. I can't be too sure on that
origin though; on more than one occasion i have heard small (8-10) children
using the word. Sooo....
Techs / cs25...@carina.unm.edu aNk1e ByT0rz k1Ub common account
This disclaimer space intentionally left blank.
David Boyes
>
> "You can Spool all of the jobs some of the time ...."
It was removed before the HASP 2.0 edition -- my copy doesn't
have it in the titles.
>Any one else remember seeing this (or have a copy of the manual, circa
>1969 or '70)?
> steve.
I remember hearing about it from my predecessor at my first real
job. I inherited a PLM for HASP as part of the deal, too.
--
David Boyes | "Where's the ka-boom? There's supposed to be an
dbo...@rice.edu | Earth-shattering ka-boom!...Heavens! Someone has
| stolen the Illudium Q-38 Explosive Space Modulator!
"Delays, delays!" | The Earth creature has *stolen* the Space Modulator!"
David Boyes
Local folklore says that it's a composite of 'snag' and 'scarf'
-- one snags a document from another machine and scarfs down the
information in it immediately. Say 'snag and scarf' enough times
and it collapses to 'snarf'.
Per Lindberg
"Snarf" is indeed one of the words found in the delightful book "the
Hackers Dictionary", a rehash of the file HACKER.JARGON wich have been
circulated around the nets since Time Began. It's full of folklore,
highly recommended.
(Is it still around here somewhere? Maybe co-author Mark Crispin is
still with us on this channel and could give us a pointer? Or perhaps
he prefers that we go out and buy the book? :-)
Also, "snarf" is aviator jargon. Probably came from the time when you
rescued a downed fellow aviator up into your Tiger Moth by yanking (or
snarfing) him by his pilot's scarf.
--
Per Lindberg (The Mad Programmer) ! __!__
Front Capital Systems ! _____(_)_____ Ceci n'est pas une Piper
Linneg 5, 11447 Stockholm, Sweden ! ! ! !
Andrew Klossner
In the (un)employment office in Pomona, California, circa 1975, an ad
for a dishwasher included this tidbit:
"Duties: scarf food from dishes, place in dishwasher ..."
[Don't expect to retain your trim figure on this job!]
-=- Andrew Klossner (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew) [UUCP]
(andrew%frip.wv...@relay.cs.net) [ARPA]
Mark Crispin
>rkeley.edu>
>"Snarf" is indeed one of the words found in the delightful book "the
>Hackers Dictionary", a rehash of the file HACKER.JARGON wich have been
>circulated around the nets since Time Began. It's full of folklore,
>highly recommended.
>
>(Is it still around here somewhere? Maybe co-author Mark Crispin is
>still with us on this channel and could give us a pointer? Or perhaps
>he prefers that we go out and buy the book? :-)
The US edition of "The Hacker's Dictionary" by Steele, Woods, Finkel,
Crispin, Stallman, and Goodfellow, is ISBN 0-06-091082-8, published by
Harper & Row. It has been out of print for several years. There is
an effort underway to develop a revised edition and have MIT Press
publish it (and hopefully do better in marketing it!).
There are still foreign editions in print. I have a copy of the
Swedish edition (called "Uppslagsbok for Computer-Freaker" or
something similar) and of the recently-published Japanese edition,
"HAKKAA Eiga Jiten". I also heard of a German edition?
_____ ____ ---+--- /-\ Mark Crispin Atheist & Proud
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