- Q-DOS (Quick and Dirty OS). This was the very first work on what would
become PC/MS DOS. This software dates from 1980, and has been
produced by Seattle Computer Products.
- 86-DOS: Q-DOS has been renamed 86-DOS in late 1980, as SCP released
version 0.30 (I think)
- CP/M 1.3: The very first version of CP/M in 1976.
- CP/M-86 PRELIMINARY RELEASE: This is a first "beta" release of CP/M-86
that Gary Kildall wrote in mid 1981, before it has been introduced on
the PC in 1982.
I'm looking for either the original disks, a copy of them, or disk images
sent through e-mail. I offer some $reward$.....
All these come on 8" SSSD, except CP/M-86 which is on 5.25", and I am
able to read 8" SSSD or write back disk image to real 8" floppies.
Thanks for any help.
I have that, I also have 86-DOS, quite a few versions from 0.3 or so to
some 8" versions past where MS had bought it from SCP and it had
actually become MS-DOS.
I also have the Imsai version of CP/M 1.3 also, somewhere, I think (I
had it, but there's a chance that I got rid of it decades ago when 1.4
came out). I used that with the old blue IMSAI dual-Calcomp disk system
(like the one that I sold on E-Bay a month or so ago) until 1.4 came out.
Unfortunately, I don't have a running system that can easily read and
duplicate those disks on, if they are still readable at all, and I won't
part with the originals, even temporarily (you are not the first person
to ask). If, however, you want to come here with a system to duplicate
them with me on-site, then we can talk.
[Actually, I DO have a working Zenith Z-100 with dual 8" drives here,
but I don't trust the Zenith copy utilities because they write a
"header" in Track 0 sector 1, and I haven't adapted a "generic"
OS-independent copy utility to run on the Z-100, although it shouldn't
be hard to do, in fact I probably have such a utility, perhaps even on
the Z-100's hard drive.]
I have thought about selling the 86-DOS copy on E-Bay, anyone have any
idea what it might bring? It's complete with documentation in the "SCP
binders" and even invoice, and because of the many versions involved as
it developed, it's quite 3-ring binders and disks -- a veritable history
of the development of 86-DOS ==> MS-DOS. I even still have the SCP
hardware that it runs on (the 8086 CPU, the CPU support board and the
SCP 4-port serial card).
Perhaps Mr. Gates or Mr. Allen would be interested in buying it. I'd
want a lot for it, but I'd sell it for under the $50,000 that they paid
You can see in www.cpm.z80.de for CP/M binaries & sources.
> I'm looking for the following rare pieces of software:
Still ? I remember from years ago ...
> - Q-DOS (Quick and Dirty OS). This was the very first work on what would
> become PC/MS DOS. This software dates from 1980, and has been
> produced by Seattle Computer Products.
I have doubts that this was ever released under the name Q-DOS.
> - 86-DOS: Q-DOS has been renamed 86-DOS in late 1980, as SCP released
> version 0.30 (I think)
86-DOS certainly was avilable as shown by adverts.
> - CP/M-86 PRELIMINARY RELEASE: This is a first "beta" release of CP/M-86
> that Gary Kildall wrote in mid 1981, before it has been introduced on
> the PC in 1982.
In the Osborne/McGraw-Hill CP/M-86 User's Guide it lists 'Generic
CP/M-86' 1.0 as January 1981 and 1.1 as 'early 1982'. This of course
was only sold to OEMs for developing to suit their machines.
CompuPro releases are listed as 1.0E May 1981, 1.1K June 1982.
IBM PC Releases as IBM distribution March 1982, 1.1 (DRI retail) March
1983, 1.1 for XT mid 1983.
CP/M-86 version 1.1 for the IBM PC was, I believe, the first DRI
produced retail version. They did this because IBM refused to sell
anything other than the original 1.0 and for $250.00. (probably
because they were still angry at having to settle with DRI over
copyright issues in PC-DOS- one part of the settlement being they were
to sell CP/M-86).
All other CP/M-86s were from manufacturers.
> I have that, I also have 86-DOS, quite a few versions from 0.3 or so to
> some 8" versions past where MS had bought it from SCP and it had
> actually become MS-DOS.
Did any of those versions have any file system other than FAT ? CP/M for example ?
Probably the versions Tim did at Seattle Computer used the CP/M file system,
or something very similar to it. FAT wasn't grafted in until it was in the
hands of Microsoft.
You'd have to ask those involved for the details, as this is merely
I'm sure there is the same FAT on the 8" version except it's 768 bytes instead
of 512. Fortunately, the 8" FAT was not bigger than 512 bytes, so I could
fit it in the space for FAT on the 5.25" for PC.
So did Tim Paterson with SCP invent FATs (and not M$)?
I found this photo on the Internet about 5-6 years ago. I couldn't
determine the website or where it came from. This photo came along with
4 others as follows:
- A photo of that PC farther away where we see a 5.25" disk box and the
same green screen. There is a man (maybe Gary Kildall) holding
- A photo showing Gary Kildall next to his personal plane preparing to fly
(instead of attending the meeting with IBM)
- A third one shows him preparing a BBQ.
- And another one shows him (supposedly) attending a certain meeting with
holding a styrofoam cup.
Anyone wants the photos? I'll send them personally to anyone who wants
a copy, or wants to have a look at this "mystery" CP/M-86 release and
perhaps try to locate it, and to assert or deny Gary Kildall is really the
man on these photos... The filename suggests Gary is making the BBQ and
preparing to fly, but the ones with the computer they suggests the
person is name Andy (so not Gary).
> CompuPro releases are listed as 1.0E May 1981, 1.1K June 1982.
> IBM PC Releases as IBM distribution March 1982, 1.1 (DRI retail) March
> 1983, 1.1 for XT mid 1983.
The March '82 is the 1.0 with the same "bootstrap loader" text as the
mystery "PRELIMINARY RELEASE" discussed above.
And the v1.1 in 1983 is the first one DRI sold for XTs, and as opposed to
1.0 which runs on every modern PC, the 1.1 needs the "AT patch" available
in our community.
No, it was available for retail single-copy purchase on 8" disks with
the Intel MDS-86 BIOS, needing to be customized much as a generic retail
copy of CP/M v2.2 would be. It was sold by Digital Research themselves
(direct), and at least by Lifeboat Associates in NYC, probably by
others. I believe that it was $150.
That's simply not correct. Version 0.3x, which was well before the MS
acquisition, was FAT-12 on 8" SSSD media. As far as I know, 86-DOS
NEVER supported CP/M media natively.
I'd have to answer yes, based on everything that I've seen and heard.
> So did Tim Paterson with SCP invent FATs (and not M$)?
I don't think that there is any dispute that FAT originated in 'Stand
Alone BASIC' and that Marc McDonald wrote it.
"""Another important contract from NCR required development of a disk
version of BASIC for their 8200 terminal. The company assigned Marc
McDonald to the project who developed a new disk formatting concept
that used a File Allocation Table (FAT). The FAT controlled the
sequence of data stored on a disk and improved the
performance of disk operations. The company used the concept of a file
allocation table in Microsoft Stand-alone Disk BASIC. Also in a
Microsoft operating system project called MIDAS and later in QDOS by
Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer Products."""
Tim was working for Microsoft at times, eg on the Z80 Softcard with
CP/M, and so would know the people in MS and may have 'borrowed' the
>In the Osborne/McGraw-Hill CP/M-86 User's Guide it lists 'Generic
>CP/M-86' 1.0 as January 1981 and 1.1 as 'early 1982'. This of course
>was only sold to OEMs for developing to suit their machines.
They are wrong by at least 6months.
>All other CP/M-86s were from manufacturers.
I have installed DRI supplied CP/M-86 on a 8086/8 powered Multibus
crate back in late 1980 running with two sided NEC 8" floppies. Even
did the user BIOS that was remarkably like CP/M 2.2 BIOS. The system
had 256kb of ram an could blow the doors of the IBM as a zero effort
enterprize. Still have some of my working disks from then.
There is a lot of "Official" lore that was often inaccurate.
Andy Johnson - Laird, possibly...
I would love a copy of them:
pryan at n t l w o r l d . c o m