Why the Soviet computer failed

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".

Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
--
Andreas

[Robin Vowels]

On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 7:25:21 AM UTC+10, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
> US in the "computer race".

.
The claim that the BESM-1 was the fastest computer in Europe is
false. The quoted speed is 8,000 to 10,000 operations per second.
.
Pilot ACE's speed in 1950 was 33,000 operations per second,
achieved with a clock speed of 1 MHz.

[Bill Findlay]

On 27 Jul 2022, Andreas Kohlbach wrote
(in article <87pmhq1...@usenet.ankman.de>):

"solving complicated quadratic equations for fission"

LOL

--
Bill Findlay

[Roger Blake]

On 2022-07-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
> US in the "computer race".

The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

"Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental
protection... the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually
an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's
resources will be negotiated." -- Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Peter Flass]

Roger Blake <rogb...@iname.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-07-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
>> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
>> US in the "computer race".
>
> The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
> a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
>

The thing is, there are a lot of smart Russians. Their programming skills
are tops, but unfortunately they seem to apply them more to hacking than
productive uses. I think it’s mostly their system that holds them back. The
current idiot in the Kremlin hasn’t helped

--
Pete

[jtmpreno]

On 7/28/2022 3:19 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
> On 2022-07-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
>> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
>> US in the "computer race".
>
> The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
> a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
>

That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.

The reason is more likely to be that the Soviet Union was a centrally
controlled economy.

The Russian economy is still centrally controlled by the oligarchs who
run it for Putin.

We have our own oligarchs running our economy but there is still some
room for innovation.

They let the little people invent new things, develop markets for them,
and then either buy the small companies or use the small companies'
patents and then sue the small companies into bankruptcy and then buy
the patents for almost nothing.

That way the big companies don't have to invest in R&D. They spend their
money on marketing.

We get more and more like Russia all the time. And eventually the
Trumpers could be successful and we will have a dictatorship just like
Russia.

[Roger Blake]

On 2022-07-29, jtmpreno <no...@znet.com> wrote:
> That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6b9wp7lsxo

[Scott Lurndal]

jtmpreno <no...@znet.com> writes:
>On 7/28/2022 3:19 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
>> On 2022-07-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
>>> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
>>> US in the "computer race".
>>
>> The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
>> a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
>>
>
>That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.

Blake is a noted nutcase.

[Dan Espen]

Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
His first proposals were for hanging all liberals from lamp posts.
I guess he figured out that when you hang someone their bowels let loose
and maybe he decided that would make a big mess. Now he just wants to put
people that disagree with him in "camps". Same outcome but hidden away.
What a POS.


--
Dan Espen

[maus]

Seems to be a forward looking character, reminds me of the local story;

man comes into the pub after falling out with his wife, calls for a
pint, and tells the barman that `all women should be shot', the bar man continues
to shine the glasses and remarks "you will need lots of ammunition"


--
grey...@mail.com
Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the blood of an Influencer.

[Andreas Kohlbach]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 13:04:03 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>

>> Blake is a noted nutcase.
>
> Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
> the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.

But there were some people who liked to be nuked.

Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).

Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them out.
--
Andreas

[Roger Blake]

On 2022-07-29, Scott Lurndal <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Blake is a noted nutcase.

Funny thing is I say the same thing about you and your ilk.

[Roger Blake]

On 2022-07-29, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
> the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
> His first proposals were for hanging all liberals from lamp posts.

Why thank you. Coming from you that is quite a compliment. I make
no secret of the fact that I believe it is necessary to round up
Leftists and eradicate them so the rest of us can get on with our
lives without their constant and relentless interference. There is
really no other reasonable way to deal with the problem. More people
are coming to this realization every day and Leftists continue
to relentlessly destroy every aspect of our way of life. Quite a
few more than you might think, most simply do not voice it. It really
is only a matter of time.

> and maybe he decided that would make a big mess. Now he just wants to put
> people that disagree with him in "camps". Same outcome but hidden away.

No, I do not want to hold them in camps. They might find their way back.
They must be totally and completely eradicated. Turned into vapour and
poured into the stratosphere. This is not a "discussion". The Left must
be utterly destroyed.

> What a POS.

Thank you once again.

[Andreas Kohlbach]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 13:04:03 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>

>> Blake is a noted nutcase.
>
> Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
> the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.

But there were some people who liked to be nuked.

Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a

small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.

[maus]

On 2022-07-30, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 13:04:03 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>
>>> Blake is a noted nutcase.
>>
>> Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
>> the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
>
> But there were some people who liked to be nuked.
>
> Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
> "nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
> small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
> small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).

My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
when they died??

>
> Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
> that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
> did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
> the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them
> out.

I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
places gave to `eugenics'.

--
grey...@mail.org
Fi Fi Fo Fum, I smell the stench of an influencer
ten, twenty million tops

[jtmpreno]

Does Dr. Bunsen use only burner phones?

[maus]

He got Beaker to make the calls.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 30 Jul 2022 20:29:59 GMT

Couldn't he stand the retort?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[D.J.]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 22:46:32 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<a...@spamfence.net> wrote:

>On 30 Jul 2022 18:42:47 GMT, maus wrote:
>>
>> On 2022-07-30, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> But there were some people who liked to be nuked.
>>>
>>> Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
>>> "nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
>>> small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
>>> small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
>>>
>>><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).
>>
>> My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
>> workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
>> when they died??
>

>No doubt. But that was a publicity stunt. The nuke only had 1.5 kilotons (TNT)
>and was exploded somewhere at 20,000 feet (6 kilometers) over their
>heads. Suppose there was no risk for them.
>
>So that US "can" feel safe, if US nukes explode over their heads to take
>out Russian bombers. That was the message to send.

Many of those nukes were set to blow up the incoming missiles over
Canada.

>>> Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
>>> that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
>>> did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
>>> the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them
>>> out.
>>
>> I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
>> see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
>> remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
>> Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
>> places gave to `eugenics'.
>

>The satellite Telstar I was also brought down by a nuke.

We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
of the exterior.
--
Jim

[D.J.]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:20:01 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<a...@spamfence.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:00:08 -0500, D.J. wrote:
>>
>> We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
>> were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
>> through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
>> dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
>> of the exterior.
>

>Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.

Have to find them... in one of around 100 storage boxes in a storage
shed where the wasps like to fly around and sting. I do try looking
through them. Found some of my early photo albums, but not those
pictures.
--
Jim

[Peter Flass]

Wow, I thought I was bad! I’ve got probably 30 boxes in my office, and am
trying to work thru them a few at a time. Easy to toss out the “why did I
take this” photos if hills and lakes, but that still leaves a lot. My goal
is to digitize the few of them worth saving and have them all cleaned out.

--
Pete

[D.J.]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:05:44 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>D.J. <chuckt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:20:01 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
>> <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:00:08 -0500, D.J. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
>>>> were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
>>>> through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
>>>> dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
>>>> of the exterior.
>>>
>>> Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.
>>
>> Have to find them... in one of around 100 storage boxes in a storage
>> shed where the wasps like to fly around and sting. I do try looking
>> through them. Found some of my early photo albums, but not those
>> pictures.
>>
>

>Wow, I thought I was bad! I’ve got probably 30 boxes in my office, and am
>trying to work thru them a few at a time. Easy to toss out the “why did I
>take this” photos if hills and lakes, but that still leaves a lot. My goal
>is to digitize the few of them worth saving and have them all cleaned out.

Back last century when my dad was in the US Army, he asked the mover
why our furniture weghed so much. The boss of the truck pointed to me
and said half of the weight was mine.

I have been finding, and shredding into confetti, my university
homework. And other things I don't need.

--
Jim

[D.J.]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 22:48:41 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<a...@spamfence.net> wrote:

>Sad when documents fade out of existence because people who have access
>don't bother and eventually pass away. A company specialized in clearing
>out might just turn them into confetti.

Most of the stuff we wrote at university was rather simplistic,
looking back on it.

>One guy did it though Christmas a few years ago as gift. He had Amiga
>floppy disks where documents were saved I wrote in the 1980s. He managed
>to dump the content into a file. And although I don't own an Amiga
>anymore I could fire up an emulator to see them again. Was a great
>feeling of nostalgia for me.

I still have the hundred or so Fred Fish floppies I bought for $1 each
decades ago. My relatives want me to throw them out, probably happen
after I die.

I have seen them online, so it may not be a loss.
--
Jim

[phigan]

> Yep. If copies exist on a secure place (archive.org for example)
> discarding originals is not a loss.

But you can always use the floppies!

[Dave Garland]

On 8/2/2022 6:18 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> On Tue, 02 Aug 2022 11:21:12 -0500, D.J. wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 22:48:41 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
>>

>>> One guy did it though Christmas a few years ago as gift. He had Amiga
>>> floppy disks where documents were saved I wrote in the 1980s. He managed
>>> to dump the content into a file. And although I don't own an Amiga
>>> anymore I could fire up an emulator to see them again. Was a great
>>> feeling of nostalgia for me.
>>
>> I still have the hundred or so Fred Fish floppies I bought for $1 each
>> decades ago. My relatives want me to throw them out, probably happen
>> after I die.
>>
>> I have seen them online, so it may not be a loss.
>

> Yep. If copies exist on a secure place (archive.org for example)
> discarding originals is not a loss.

So long as archive.org remains intact. Helping finance them helps, but
there are no guarantees.

[luserdroog]

Another example might be the fumbling of the Tetris property. Hard to harness
without a strong concept of Intellectual Property.

[Peter Flass]

Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:

> They'll suffer from data degradation over time.
>
> Same (worse) with the cassette tapes with self-written programs on it I
> mentioned. If they're not (not already have been) archived, they're gone
> (soon).
>
> BTW. I see that at some Youtubers with a vintage topic. Some restore
> old computers and then try to boot software coming with them. In recent
> years I see more and more struggling to get them read, although a fresh
> formatted floppy still works (so no hardware fault of the drive itself).

I think there’s some software that can get at least some data off a
degraded or copy-protected floppy.

--
Pete

[Bud Spencer]

Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.

Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact for
centuries.

--
₪ BUD ₪

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
Bud Spencer <b...@campo.verano.it> wrote:

> Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.

You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
required.

> Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
> for centuries.

Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 18:09:09 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
> Bud Spencer <b...@campo.verano.it> wrote:
>
> > Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
>
> You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
> map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
> required.
>
> > Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
> > for centuries.
>
> Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
> record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
>

And an awful lot of info as to who owes how many bushels of grain to whom
isn't terribly relevant after 6k years. Maybe future bit-archaeologists
will wonder about our cult of the god Mario.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Bud Spencer]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
> Bud Spencer <b...@campo.verano.it> wrote:
>
>> Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
>
> You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
> map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
> required.

Still you need to store that data some media that is holding it for a long
time. No floppy disks nor SDDs are going to stand for very long time.

>> Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
>> for centuries.
>
> Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
> record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.

Well ... those are the best options for very very critical data one have
to store for a long time. Didn't mean clay tablets.

--
₪ BUD ₪

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:11:21 +0100
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> And an awful lot of info as to who owes how many bushels of grain to whom
> isn't terribly relevant after 6k years. Maybe future bit-archaeologists
> will wonder about our cult of the god Mario.

They'll be cursing the exabytes of access logs cluttering the
archives.

[Andy Walker]

On 04/08/2022 18:09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> [...] Clay tablets hold the current

> record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.

For /human/ data, perhaps, but varves, ice cores, tree rings
and similar record information about the climate, the atmosphere and
astronomical phenomena over much longer periods.

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Peerson

[Robin Vowels]

On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 3:30:30 AM UTC+10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
> Bud Spencer <b...@campo.verano.it> wrote:
>
> > Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
> You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
> map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
> required.
> > Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
> > for centuries.
.
> Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
> record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.

.
Punch cards?

[Andy Burns]

Check with Ray Bradbury ...

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

Also damp, mould and mice.

[Bud Spencer]

Sure, if you have a military base sized storage for your recent vacation
photos :)

--
₪ BUD ₪