Why the Soviet computer failed

324 views
Skip to first unread message

Andreas Kohlbach

unread,
Jul 27, 2022, 5:25:21 PMJul 27
to
Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".

Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
--
Andreas

Robin Vowels

unread,
Jul 27, 2022, 10:02:25 PMJul 27
to
On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 7:25:21 AM UTC+10, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
> US in the "computer race".
.
The claim that the BESM-1 was the fastest computer in Europe is
false. The quoted speed is 8,000 to 10,000 operations per second.
.
Pilot ACE's speed in 1950 was 33,000 operations per second,
achieved with a clock speed of 1 MHz.

Bill Findlay

unread,
Jul 28, 2022, 10:52:00 AMJul 28
to
On 27 Jul 2022, Andreas Kohlbach wrote
(in article <87pmhq1...@usenet.ankman.de>):
"solving complicated quadratic equations for fission"

LOL

--
Bill Findlay

Roger Blake

unread,
Jul 28, 2022, 6:19:42 PMJul 28
to
On 2022-07-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
> US in the "computer race".

The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

"Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental
protection... the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually
an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's
resources will be negotiated." -- Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peter Flass

unread,
Jul 28, 2022, 8:52:45 PMJul 28
to
Roger Blake <rogb...@iname.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-07-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
>> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
>> US in the "computer race".
>
> The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
> a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
>

The thing is, there are a lot of smart Russians. Their programming skills
are tops, but unfortunately they seem to apply them more to hacking than
productive uses. I think it’s mostly their system that holds them back. The
current idiot in the Kremlin hasn’t helped

--
Pete

jtmpreno

unread,
Jul 28, 2022, 10:25:18 PMJul 28
to
On 7/28/2022 3:19 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
> On 2022-07-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
>> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
>> US in the "computer race".
>
> The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
> a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
>

That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.

The reason is more likely to be that the Soviet Union was a centrally
controlled economy.

The Russian economy is still centrally controlled by the oligarchs who
run it for Putin.

We have our own oligarchs running our economy but there is still some
room for innovation.

They let the little people invent new things, develop markets for them,
and then either buy the small companies or use the small companies'
patents and then sue the small companies into bankruptcy and then buy
the patents for almost nothing.

That way the big companies don't have to invest in R&D. They spend their
money on marketing.

We get more and more like Russia all the time. And eventually the
Trumpers could be successful and we will have a dictatorship just like
Russia.



Roger Blake

unread,
Jul 29, 2022, 12:26:06 AMJul 29
to
On 2022-07-29, jtmpreno <no...@znet.com> wrote:
> That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6b9wp7lsxo

Scott Lurndal

unread,
Jul 29, 2022, 11:53:00 AMJul 29
to
jtmpreno <no...@znet.com> writes:
>On 7/28/2022 3:19 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
>> On 2022-07-27, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
>>> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
>>> US in the "computer race".
>>
>> The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
>> a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
>>
>
>That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.

Blake is a noted nutcase.

Dan Espen

unread,
Jul 29, 2022, 1:04:05 PMJul 29
to
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
His first proposals were for hanging all liberals from lamp posts.
I guess he figured out that when you hang someone their bowels let loose
and maybe he decided that would make a big mess. Now he just wants to put
people that disagree with him in "camps". Same outcome but hidden away.
What a POS.


--
Dan Espen

maus

unread,
Jul 29, 2022, 2:14:23 PMJul 29
to
Seems to be a forward looking character, reminds me of the local story;

man comes into the pub after falling out with his wife, calls for a
pint, and tells the barman that `all women should be shot', the bar man continues
to shine the glasses and remarks "you will need lots of ammunition"


--
grey...@mail.com
Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the blood of an Influencer.

Andreas Kohlbach

unread,
Jul 29, 2022, 7:42:55 PMJul 29
to
On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 13:04:03 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> Blake is a noted nutcase.
>
> Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
> the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.

But there were some people who liked to be nuked.

Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).

Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them out.
--
Andreas

Roger Blake

unread,
Jul 29, 2022, 8:04:15 PMJul 29
to
On 2022-07-29, Scott Lurndal <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Blake is a noted nutcase.

Funny thing is I say the same thing about you and your ilk.

Roger Blake

unread,
Jul 29, 2022, 8:14:50 PMJul 29
to
On 2022-07-29, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
> the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
> His first proposals were for hanging all liberals from lamp posts.

Why thank you. Coming from you that is quite a compliment. I make
no secret of the fact that I believe it is necessary to round up
Leftists and eradicate them so the rest of us can get on with our
lives without their constant and relentless interference. There is
really no other reasonable way to deal with the problem. More people
are coming to this realization every day and Leftists continue
to relentlessly destroy every aspect of our way of life. Quite a
few more than you might think, most simply do not voice it. It really
is only a matter of time.

> and maybe he decided that would make a big mess. Now he just wants to put
> people that disagree with him in "camps". Same outcome but hidden away.

No, I do not want to hold them in camps. They might find their way back.
They must be totally and completely eradicated. Turned into vapour and
poured into the stratosphere. This is not a "discussion". The Left must
be utterly destroyed.

> What a POS.

Thank you once again.

Andreas Kohlbach

unread,
Jul 30, 2022, 8:30:29 AMJul 30
to
On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 13:04:03 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> Blake is a noted nutcase.
>
> Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
> the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.

But there were some people who liked to be nuked.

Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.

maus

unread,
Jul 30, 2022, 2:42:49 PMJul 30
to
On 2022-07-30, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 13:04:03 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>>
>>> Blake is a noted nutcase.
>>
>> Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
>> the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
>
> But there were some people who liked to be nuked.
>
> Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
> "nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
> small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
> small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).

My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
when they died??
>
> Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
> that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
> did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
> the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them
> out.

I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
places gave to `eugenics'.

--
grey...@mail.org
Fi Fi Fo Fum, I smell the stench of an influencer
ten, twenty million tops

jtmpreno

unread,
Jul 30, 2022, 4:13:53 PMJul 30
to
Does Dr. Bunsen use only burner phones?


maus

unread,
Jul 30, 2022, 4:30:02 PMJul 30
to
He got Beaker to make the calls.

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

unread,
Jul 30, 2022, 5:30:03 PMJul 30
to
On 30 Jul 2022 20:29:59 GMT
Couldn't he stand the retort?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

D.J.

unread,
Jul 31, 2022, 2:00:32 PMJul 31
to
On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 22:46:32 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>On 30 Jul 2022 18:42:47 GMT, maus wrote:
>>
>> On 2022-07-30, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> But there were some people who liked to be nuked.
>>>
>>> Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
>>> "nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
>>> small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
>>> small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
>>>
>>><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).
>>
>> My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
>> workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
>> when they died??
>
>No doubt. But that was a publicity stunt. The nuke only had 1.5 kilotons (TNT)
>and was exploded somewhere at 20,000 feet (6 kilometers) over their
>heads. Suppose there was no risk for them.
>
>So that US "can" feel safe, if US nukes explode over their heads to take
>out Russian bombers. That was the message to send.

Many of those nukes were set to blow up the incoming missiles over
Canada.


>>> Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
>>> that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
>>> did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
>>> the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them
>>> out.
>>
>> I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
>> see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
>> remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
>> Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
>> places gave to `eugenics'.
>
>The satellite Telstar I was also brought down by a nuke.

We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
of the exterior.
--
Jim

D.J.

unread,
Jul 31, 2022, 7:25:43 PMJul 31
to
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:20:01 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:00:08 -0500, D.J. wrote:
>>
>> We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
>> were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
>> through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
>> dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
>> of the exterior.
>
>Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.

Have to find them... in one of around 100 storage boxes in a storage
shed where the wasps like to fly around and sting. I do try looking
through them. Found some of my early photo albums, but not those
pictures.
--
Jim

Peter Flass

unread,
Jul 31, 2022, 9:05:47 PMJul 31
to
Wow, I thought I was bad! I’ve got probably 30 boxes in my office, and am
trying to work thru them a few at a time. Easy to toss out the “why did I
take this” photos if hills and lakes, but that still leaves a lot. My goal
is to digitize the few of them worth saving and have them all cleaned out.

--
Pete

D.J.

unread,
Aug 1, 2022, 10:42:17 AMAug 1
to
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:05:44 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>D.J. <chuckt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:20:01 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
>> <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:00:08 -0500, D.J. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
>>>> were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
>>>> through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
>>>> dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
>>>> of the exterior.
>>>
>>> Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.
>>
>> Have to find them... in one of around 100 storage boxes in a storage
>> shed where the wasps like to fly around and sting. I do try looking
>> through them. Found some of my early photo albums, but not those
>> pictures.
>>
>
>Wow, I thought I was bad! I’ve got probably 30 boxes in my office, and am
>trying to work thru them a few at a time. Easy to toss out the “why did I
>take this” photos if hills and lakes, but that still leaves a lot. My goal
>is to digitize the few of them worth saving and have them all cleaned out.

Back last century when my dad was in the US Army, he asked the mover
why our furniture weghed so much. The boss of the truck pointed to me
and said half of the weight was mine.

I have been finding, and shredding into confetti, my university
homework. And other things I don't need.

--
Jim

D.J.

unread,
Aug 2, 2022, 12:21:17 PMAug 2
to
On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 22:48:41 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>Sad when documents fade out of existence because people who have access
>don't bother and eventually pass away. A company specialized in clearing
>out might just turn them into confetti.

Most of the stuff we wrote at university was rather simplistic,
looking back on it.

>One guy did it though Christmas a few years ago as gift. He had Amiga
>floppy disks where documents were saved I wrote in the 1980s. He managed
>to dump the content into a file. And although I don't own an Amiga
>anymore I could fire up an emulator to see them again. Was a great
>feeling of nostalgia for me.

I still have the hundred or so Fred Fish floppies I bought for $1 each
decades ago. My relatives want me to throw them out, probably happen
after I die.

I have seen them online, so it may not be a loss.
--
Jim

phigan

unread,
Aug 2, 2022, 11:03:18 PMAug 2
to
> Yep. If copies exist on a secure place (archive.org for example)
> discarding originals is not a loss.

But you can always use the floppies!

Dave Garland

unread,
Aug 3, 2022, 1:05:03 AMAug 3
to
On 8/2/2022 6:18 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2022 11:21:12 -0500, D.J. wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 22:48:41 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
>>
>>> One guy did it though Christmas a few years ago as gift. He had Amiga
>>> floppy disks where documents were saved I wrote in the 1980s. He managed
>>> to dump the content into a file. And although I don't own an Amiga
>>> anymore I could fire up an emulator to see them again. Was a great
>>> feeling of nostalgia for me.
>>
>> I still have the hundred or so Fred Fish floppies I bought for $1 each
>> decades ago. My relatives want me to throw them out, probably happen
>> after I die.
>>
>> I have seen them online, so it may not be a loss.
>
> Yep. If copies exist on a secure place (archive.org for example)
> discarding originals is not a loss.

So long as archive.org remains intact. Helping finance them helps, but
there are no guarantees.


luserdroog

unread,
Aug 3, 2022, 9:36:37 AMAug 3
to
Another example might be the fumbling of the Tetris property. Hard to harness
without a strong concept of Intellectual Property.

Peter Flass

unread,
Aug 4, 2022, 11:23:21 AMAug 4
to
Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> They'll suffer from data degradation over time.
>
> Same (worse) with the cassette tapes with self-written programs on it I
> mentioned. If they're not (not already have been) archived, they're gone
> (soon).
>
> BTW. I see that at some Youtubers with a vintage topic. Some restore
> old computers and then try to boot software coming with them. In recent
> years I see more and more struggling to get them read, although a fresh
> formatted floppy still works (so no hardware fault of the drive itself).

I think there’s some software that can get at least some data off a
degraded or copy-protected floppy.

--
Pete

Bud Spencer

unread,
Aug 4, 2022, 12:05:31 PMAug 4
to
Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.

Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact for
centuries.

--
₪ BUD ₪

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

unread,
Aug 4, 2022, 1:30:30 PMAug 4
to
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
Bud Spencer <b...@campo.verano.it> wrote:

> Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.

You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
required.

> Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
> for centuries.

Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.

Kerr-Mudd, John

unread,
Aug 4, 2022, 2:11:23 PMAug 4
to
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 18:09:09 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
> Bud Spencer <b...@campo.verano.it> wrote:
>
> > Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
>
> You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
> map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
> required.
>
> > Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
> > for centuries.
>
> Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
> record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
>
And an awful lot of info as to who owes how many bushels of grain to whom
isn't terribly relevant after 6k years. Maybe future bit-archaeologists
will wonder about our cult of the god Mario.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Bud Spencer

unread,
Aug 4, 2022, 2:36:50 PMAug 4
to
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
> Bud Spencer <b...@campo.verano.it> wrote:
>
>> Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
>
> You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
> map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
> required.

Still you need to store that data some media that is holding it for a long
time. No floppy disks nor SDDs are going to stand for very long time.

>> Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
>> for centuries.
>
> Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
> record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.

Well ... those are the best options for very very critical data one have
to store for a long time. Didn't mean clay tablets.

--
₪ BUD ₪

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

unread,
Aug 4, 2022, 3:00:02 PMAug 4
to
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:11:21 +0100
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> And an awful lot of info as to who owes how many bushels of grain to whom
> isn't terribly relevant after 6k years. Maybe future bit-archaeologists
> will wonder about our cult of the god Mario.

They'll be cursing the exabytes of access logs cluttering the
archives.

Andy Walker

unread,
Aug 4, 2022, 4:18:42 PMAug 4
to
On 04/08/2022 18:09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> [...] Clay tablets hold the current
> record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.

For /human/ data, perhaps, but varves, ice cores, tree rings
and similar record information about the climate, the atmosphere and
astronomical phenomena over much longer periods.

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Peerson

Robin Vowels

unread,
Aug 4, 2022, 6:48:42 PMAug 4
to
On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 3:30:30 AM UTC+10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
> Bud Spencer <b...@campo.verano.it> wrote:
>
> > Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
> You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
> map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
> required.
> > Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
> > for centuries.
.
> Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
> record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
.
Punch cards?

Andy Burns

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 4:32:18 AMAug 5
to
Check with Ray Bradbury ...


Ahem A Rivet's Shot

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 5:30:03 AMAug 5
to
Also damp, mould and mice.

Bud Spencer

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 6:37:28 AMAug 5
to
Sure, if you have a military base sized storage for your recent vacation
photos :)

--
₪ BUD ₪

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 8:30:03 AMAug 5
to
Hmm streaming video off punch cards - I make it on close order of a
million cards a minute and I am not volunteering to keep the hopper filled!

Freddy1X

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 8:44:28 AMAug 5
to
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

( cuts )
>
> Hmm streaming video off punch cards - I make it on close order of a
> million cards a minute and I am not volunteering to keep the hopper
> filled!
>

"Buffering -card jam"

Freddy,
Thats why paper tape is superior! ;)

--
When using this product do not use more than directed.

/|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\|
/| I may be demented \|
/| but I'm not crazy! \|
/|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\|
* SPAyM trap: there is no X in my address *

Bud Spencer

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 9:35:55 AMAug 5
to
On Fri, 5 Aug 2022, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Aug 2022 13:37:22 +0300
> Bud Spencer <b...@campo.verano.it> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2022, Robin Vowels wrote:
>>
>>> Punch cards?
>>
>> Sure, if you have a military base sized storage for your recent vacation
>> photos :)
>
> Hmm streaming video off punch cards - I make it on close order of a
> million cards a minute and I am not volunteering to keep the hopper filled!

Sound estimate ...

--
₪ BUD ₪

Peter Flass

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 1:19:37 PMAug 5
to
You never know what would be relevant. I’ve said before, records of tax
receipts for the port of Londinium over some years would present an
interesting picture of the economy of Britannia.

--
Pete

Peter Flass

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 1:19:38 PMAug 5
to
If the rodents and bugs don’t get them they will last as long as a book
printed on good paper, but it becomes very difficult to read them after a
while. I think optical scanning, possibly hand-fed, works best later.

--
Pete

Dennis Boone

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 1:22:02 PMAug 5
to
> Sound estimate ...

No, it was a video estimate.

De

Quadibloc

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 5:07:31 PMAug 5
to
On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 10:26:06 PM UTC-6, Roger Blake wrote:
> On 2022-07-29, jtmpreno <no...@znet.com> wrote:

> > That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6b9wp7lsxo

Thank you for providing the source of the quote.

John Savard

Quadibloc

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 5:09:12 PMAug 5
to
On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 9:53:00 AM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> jtmpreno <no...@znet.com> writes:

> >That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.
> Blake is a noted nutcase.

But since it _was_ an actual quote from Dr. Strangelove, doesn't that
mean it was intended ironically, and so the intent of his post was to
claim that the Asianometry video was bigoted against Russians?

John Savard

Quadibloc

unread,
Aug 5, 2022, 5:31:15 PMAug 5
to
On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 6:14:50 PM UTC-6, Roger Blake wrote:

> No, I do not want to hold them in camps. They might find their way back.
> They must be totally and completely eradicated. Turned into vapour and
> poured into the stratosphere. This is not a "discussion". The Left must
> be utterly destroyed.

Oh, my.

Well, I guess that makes sense from your point of view. Why, I was just
watching a video on YouTube about how these left-wingers are too clever
in escaping from traps for them...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-0YzkmbCUU

Since you include in "the Left" not just destructive extremists,
but people who believe in freedom, but who believe in it for
everyone, not just for some, of course I will cheer when you,
and those like you, are prevented from achieving any of your
evil goals.

John Savard

Robin Vowels

unread,
Aug 6, 2022, 2:06:24 AMAug 6
to
.
I have punch cards from the '60s, and they are in excellent condition.

anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl

unread,
Aug 10, 2022, 1:12:29 PMAug 10
to
Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> Found this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnHdqPBrtH8>
> interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
> US in the "computer race".
>
> Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
> without massive technology support from outside.

I am not doing youtube so do not know what author claims.
Usual western explanation is that communist system was
inefficient and hostile to innovation. This explanation
has some merit, but management problems in communism
and in big western companies are similar so IMO it is
only partial explanation.

However, one can also look at fundamentals. Soviet
economy was smaller than western economy. At its best
times soviet block claimed to be about half of western
block. More important, advanced sectors formed much
smaller part of Soviet economy than in western economy.
In advanced part of economy there are very strong scale
and multiplier effects. Namely you pay developement
cost once, with moderate influence of resulting production
volume. By multipler effect I mean that to develop
advanced technology you need advanced parts and tools.
So speed at which you are able to develop advanced
technology depends very strongly on your techonlogy
level. And western embargo meant that Soviet block
could not import curucial advanced technology, it has
to develop its own. Since Soviet block was way behind
west in advanced technology, it also developed slower so
distance to west at best remainded fixed and in
many cases increased.

In central planning economy there is naive belif
that assigning more resources to critical sectors
will lead to faster developement and consequently
allow overtaking "unplanned" economy. However,
first of all, one needs to correctly identify
critical sectors, which is tricky. Second, more
resources does not mean more effect: sector must
be able to usfully "consume" added resources.
For example, if your semiconductor manufacturing
is limited by lack of knowledge and your research
is limited by lack of scientific instruments, you
get rather long delay from critical place to
desired effect. Third, every leading country now
has some level of planned economy and there is
state support for long term projects.

Another question is how much demand for computers
was in Soviet block. Computers were needed for
bomb and rocket research, but AFAICS Soviets
had this covered. Various report show that in
Soviet block computer centers frequently operated
one shift only. If there were pressing need
they should operate them at least two shifts.

Recently I have read Polish report (but Russian
thinking was probably similar) about
computer trends from 1969. One claim was that
in USA there is enough computers. Argument was
as follows: computer manufactures had free
production capacity and if there were more need
users would order more. So report predicted
that computer use would saturate at level similar
to USA in 1969. They also observe that to get
economic benefits from computers one had to
simultaneously improve orgranization, comuication,
etc. That needed time so report claimed that there
is no rush to increased computer use: one should
improve all things at their natural pace.

Of course claim about "saturated" computer market was
quite wrong, they did not predict that falling
computer prices would lead to much wider use. But
Soviet block planners were not the only ones to
make such mistake. Internal IBM documents from
1972 shows that IBM was quite scared that failing
manufacturing costs would lead to low prices for
computers and effectively "collapse" computer
market.

I think that it is hard to compare Russia now to
Soviet times. On one hand Russion economy now
is much smaller part of word economy than Soviet
economy was in Soviet times. And Russion seem
to be much more dependent on imports. OTOH
western embargo needed quite a long time to
have effect. And in modern times it is not
just Russia and west. In particular China has
a lot of technologies that Russia needs. I think
that China advanced sector is still significantly
smaller than western advanced sector. And China
is dependent on imports of western advanced
products. So China do not want confrontation
with west (at least just now). But if pressed to
hard they can make common block with Russia
just as self-defence.

--
Waldek Hebisch

Kerr-Mudd, John

unread,
Aug 10, 2022, 1:55:56 PMAug 10