Is the mimeograph process still in use?
Jeff nor Lisa
that technology was still in use in modern duplicators. I've
heard that the basic principle has been improved and remains
in use.
Mimeograph is an inexpensive method of printing. A wax stencil
is cut, usually with a typewriter, and the ink passes through
the cut parts to the paper. More modern methods cut the stencil
electronically from a camera ready original.
Mimeograph was not high quality. The output had a fuzzy
look to it. The advantage was that it was cheap, especially
for large runs, such as in schools or institutions. The
machines and stencil preparation were much cheaper than offset
masters. The machines, basically a drum with a fabric covering
that allowed ink to flow through it to the stencil, were much
cheaper to buy and maintain than xerox machines. I believe
the paper was cheaper than xerox paper as well.
For the present day, I've heard that "digital duplicators"
still use the mimeo principal of ink passing through a stencil.
But have they improved the stencil material, stencil
cutting technology, and inks so that the output quality is
much better than the fuzzyness of the past? The users of
course don't prepare the original stencil, but camera ready
copy and the machine electronically scans the original and
prepares the stencil.
Anyone know accurately more about this?
P.S. With the advent of low-cost xerography duplicating
machines, my guess is that the spirit master ("ditto")
duplicators are obsolete. These machines used the reverse
edge of a special carbon paper and a fluid to transfer
that image to paper. They were cheaper and easier than
mimeo, but limited to about 100 copies and copy quality
was poor (usually a pale blue color).
[public replies only, please]
Mo
like today the teachers called them runoffs. I also remember the funky blue
color the ink had and the teachers always had to holler at us to not sniff
the ink! They did have kind of a pleasing odor and what a rush!
Mo
"Jeff nor Lisa" <hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message
news:de64863b.03032...@posting.google.com...
Rich Alderson
Letterpress mailing list. I think the archives are publicly available, or
you can subscribe to the list if you really want to take a look. Check on
--
Rich Alderson ne...@alderson.users.panix.com
"You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." --Death, of the Endless
Tim Shoppa
> P.S. With the advent of low-cost xerography duplicating
> machines, my guess is that the spirit master ("ditto")
> duplicators are obsolete. These machines used the reverse
> edge of a special carbon paper and a fluid to transfer
> that image to paper.
ISTR that "ordinary" carbon paper worked too, but with lower
quality.
Tim.
Douglas H. Quebbeman
> machines, my guess is that the spirit master ("ditto")
> duplicators are obsolete. These machines used the reverse
> edge of a special carbon paper and a fluid to transfer
> that image to paper. They were cheaper and easier than
> mimeo, but limited to about 100 copies and copy quality
> was poor (usually a pale blue color).
Green and red ditto masters were also available, having
used them...
What a shame if they're gone... few things revive the
feeling of Youth like holding a stack of freshly dittoed
tests under the nose and inhaling deeply...
Charlie Gibbs
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) writes:
>I was curious if anyone still uses mimeograph machines or if
>that technology was still in use in modern duplicators. I've
>heard that the basic principle has been improved and remains
>in use.
<snip>
I remember manual typewriters having the "stencil" setting that
kept the ribbon out of the way so that, with a firm stroke, you
could cut stencils. I never saw it used in anger, though.
>P.S. With the advent of low-cost xerography duplicating
>machines, my guess is that the spirit master ("ditto")
>duplicators are obsolete. These machines used the reverse
>edge of a special carbon paper and a fluid to transfer
>that image to paper. They were cheaper and easier than
>mimeo, but limited to about 100 copies and copy quality
>was poor (usually a pale blue color).
All I ever saw in school were the spirit duplicators (although
I think everyone generally - and, it seems, incorrectly -
referred to them as "mimeograph machines"). But we tended
to only need short runs anyway. And yes, I too remember
that pale blue colour. Red and green masters were available,
though - I once made up a three-colour master.
--
/~\ cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Charles Richmond
The "memo" copies I remember from my school days had sort
of a purple letter color. This was the standard way for
most of the planned tests to be done. Our school also had
a machine that could make a "spirit" carbon from a standard
printed page...but the pages had to be fed in one at a time.
So if you used a page from a bound book...you would have to
tear it out first.
--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Glen Herrmannsfeldt
"Charles Richmond" <rich...@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:3E84F04A...@ev1.net...
> "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote:
> >
> > "Jeff nor Lisa" <hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message >
> > >
> > > P.S. With the advent of low-cost xerography duplicating
> > > machines, my guess is that the spirit master ("ditto")
> > > duplicators are obsolete. These machines used the reverse
> > > edge of a special carbon paper and a fluid to transfer
> > > that image to paper. They were cheaper and easier than
> > > mimeo, but limited to about 100 copies and copy quality
> > > was poor (usually a pale blue color).
> >
> > Green and red ditto masters were also available, having
> > used them...
> >
> > What a shame if they're gone... few things revive the
> > feeling of Youth like holding a stack of freshly dittoed
> > tests under the nose and inhaling deeply...
> >
> Bzzzt...it's bad for your liver.
> The "memo" copies I remember from my school days had sort
> of a purple letter color. This was the standard way for
> most of the planned tests to be done. Our school also had
> a machine that could make a "spirit" carbon from a standard
> printed page...but the pages had to be fed in one at a time.
> So if you used a page from a bound book...you would have to
> tear it out first.
That is thermofax. A 3M technology originally designed as a copier, also
for making transparencies. Infrared light goes through a thin sheet of
paper and the purple ink sheet, heats up IR absorbing writing (pencil and
Xerox copies work well), and transfers the ink. They are good for about 50
or so copies each, but then it isn't hard to make another one.
From books you make one xerographic copy, then use that.
The fluid is mostly methanol, so too much isn't good for you.
-- glen
dgr...@cs.csbuak.edu
I've always remembered them as a deep purple. Nobody ever scolded us for
smelling the dittos.
--
David Griffith
Foobar T. Clown
>
> All I ever saw in school were the spirit duplicators (although
> I think everyone generally - and, it seems, incorrectly -
> referred to them as "mimeograph machines"). But we tended
> to only need short runs anyway.
Ditto.
The spirit duplicators had pretty well killed the market for
Mimeograph machines by the time I was a kid in school (late 60s).
I seem to recall hearing that offset printing was cost effective
for any job of more than a few hundred copies, and spirit
machines were more cost effective for any job of less than one
hundred.
Didn't leave much room in between.
-- Foo!
Glen Herrmannsfeldt
"Foobar T. Clown" <fu...@gazonk.del> wrote in message
news:3E871793...@gazonk.del...
I knew of a machine with a name similer to Gerstetner, something like that,
in the 1980's used by an undergraduate student organization. They needed
more than 100, but at a student budget. They had the machine with a
rotating drum that would make a master from a printed original. (Probably
paid for by the school.) While offset might be cost effective at 100, you
still have to buy the machinery.
-- glen
Peter Flass
> I knew of a machine with a name similer to Gerstetner, something like that,
Gestetner, IIRC.
Foobar T. Clown
>
> "Foobar T. Clown" <fu...@gazonk.del> wrote in message
> news:3E871793...@gazonk.del...
> >
> > Mimeograph machines by the time I was a kid in school (late 60s).
> > I seem to recall hearing that offset printing was cost effective
> > for any job of more than a few hundred copies, and spirit
> > machines were more cost effective for any job of less than one
> > hundred.
>
> still have to buy the machinery.
>
> -- glen
Was a viable option for a Univeristy or for a large corporation.
The rest of us would just pop 'round the corner to the print shop.
We still do today, except now the "print shop" often is Kinkos,
and the machine uses Xerox technology.
-- Foo!
Helmut P. Einfalt
that,
>in the 1980's used by an undergraduate student organization. They
needed
>more than 100, but at a student budget. They had the machine with a
>rotating drum that would make a master from a printed original.
(Probably
>paid for by the school.)
That was a Gestetner drum scanner. It would read any original in
samples with a pretty low (= coarse) pitch and burn it -- spark by
spark -- into a wax stencil similar to the ones you used for the
typweriter. The rest of the process was carried out on a stencil
printer using a process quite similar to silk-screen printing (but
much coarser), with the stencil acting as a screen between the ink and
the paper.
Its advantage over offest lay in the cost: One offset plate would cost
us about 15 times as much as one stencil in 1975 (the offset plate
being at about 8 dollars or so in Austria then), and the stencils
would work fine for runs up to 1000 copies max. Also, the paper (an
open surface type) was way cheaper than offset paper; the drawback,
however, was that you couldn't write very well on it, you *had* to use
a biro or a pencil, felt markers and other ink-based media would be
sucked up by the paper's structure and be reduced to a series of
virtually illegible blots.
The maintenance of the stencil printing machine was very easy compared
to the cleaning you have to do on offset machines (not rubber tissue
to clean), and we kept that machine (and the drum scanner) in our
students' organisation even after we got our own offset printshop in
'79 for the odd quick'n'dirty flyer.
Helmut
--
"The 080 had nicer legs than the 082."
(D.Weaver in comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware)
Douglas H. Quebbeman
news:3E84F04A...@ev1.net...
> "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote:
> >
> > used them...
> >
> > What a shame if they're gone... few things revive the
> > feeling of Youth like holding a stack of freshly dittoed
> > tests under the nose and inhaling deeply...
> >
> Bzzzt...it's bad for your liver.
I have a robust liver- it survived 10 years of using
acetominophen as a hang-over preventative/cure...
...and that was probably the most benign thing I
did to it during those years. No sign of any problems...
> The "memo" copies I remember from my school days had sort
> of a purple letter color. This was the standard way for
> most of the planned tests to be done. Our school also had
> a machine that could make a "spirit" carbon from a standard
> printed page...but the pages had to be fed in one at a time.
> So if you used a page from a bound book...you would have to
> tear it out first.
Actually, you could make a photocopy and use that... we had
an early thermal printer (slightly different technology
I think than the Texas Instruments thermal stuff) at my
junior high school, and we could make ditto masters from
the thermal copies... but it didn't work well..
Douglas H. Quebbeman
news:u76ha.269375$S_4.170199@rwcrnsc53...
> "Charles Richmond" <rich...@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:3E84F04A...@ev1.net...
> > "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote:
> > > "Jeff nor Lisa" <hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message >
> > > >
> > > > P.S. With the advent of low-cost xerography duplicating
> > > > machines, my guess is that the spirit master ("ditto")
> > > > duplicators are obsolete. These machines used the reverse
> > > > edge of a special carbon paper and a fluid to transfer
> > > > that image to paper. They were cheaper and easier than
> > > > mimeo, but limited to about 100 copies and copy quality
> > > > was poor (usually a pale blue color).
> > >
> > > Green and red ditto masters were also available, having
> > > used them...
> > >
> > > What a shame if they're gone... few things revive the
> > > feeling of Youth like holding a stack of freshly dittoed
> > > tests under the nose and inhaling deeply...
> > >
> > Bzzzt...it's bad for your liver.
[..snip..]
> The fluid is mostly methanol, so too much isn't good for you.
Charles' sterno warning notwithstanding, all things in moderation...
;)
Glen Herrmannsfeldt
"Douglas H. Quebbeman" <do...@iglou.com> wrote in message
news:3e885ce8$1...@news.iglou.com...
(snip)
>
> I have a robust liver- it survived 10 years of using
> acetominophen as a hang-over preventative/cure...
>
> ...and that was probably the most benign thing I
> did to it during those years. No sign of any problems...
>
> > The "memo" copies I remember from my school days had sort
> > of a purple letter color. This was the standard way for
> > most of the planned tests to be done. Our school also had
> > a machine that could make a "spirit" carbon from a standard
> > printed page...but the pages had to be fed in one at a time.
> > So if you used a page from a bound book...you would have to
> > tear it out first.
>
> Actually, you could make a photocopy and use that... we had
> an early thermal printer (slightly different technology
> I think than the Texas Instruments thermal stuff) at my
> junior high school, and we could make ditto masters from
> the thermal copies... but it didn't work well..
They need carbon based ink. Pencil and xerographic copies work well. Some
school workbooks are specifically printed using such inks so teachers can
make such copies from them. The ink needs to absorb far infrared light,
which carbon is good at doing, but most dyes are not.
-- glen
arargh...@not.at.enteract.com
And I have seen sheet music that is printed such that it is nearly
impossible to copy using these ways.
--
Arargh (at arargh dot com) http://www.arargh.com
To reply by email, change the domain name, and remove the garbage.
(Enteract can keep the spam, they are gone anyway)
Charles Shannon Hendrix
>> Bzzzt...it's bad for your liver.
>
> I have a robust liver- it survived 10 years of using
> acetominophen as a hang-over preventative/cure...
Acetominophen has to be taken in large doses to cause damage.
I heard about a guy who had liver damage from it, and went to ask him
about it. Turns out he had taken the maximum dose per day, for about 7
years.
Where Acetominophen (Tylenol) is dangerous is when taken for a hangover,
because it reacts with alcohol and does a lot of damage.
So all these people using for hangovers are asking for trouble.
What I don't understand is why people use pain pills, when all they
need to do is rehydrate and the hangover goes away. It's caused by the
diuretic effect of alcohol.
Charlie Gibbs
sha...@news.widomaker.com (Charles Shannon Hendrix) writes:
>What I don't understand is why people use pain pills, when all they
>need to do is rehydrate and the hangover goes away. It's caused by
>the diuretic effect of alcohol.
The other thing I learned is to drink as much water as possible
before going to sleep. That's pretty effective - but it requires
a bit of forethought (as well as not having passed out already).
Douglas H. Quebbeman
news:slrnb8kp61....@news.widomaker.com...
> In article <3e885ce8$1...@news.iglou.com>, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
>
> >> Bzzzt...it's bad for your liver.
> >
> > I have a robust liver- it survived 10 years of using
> > acetominophen as a hang-over preventative/cure...
>
> Acetominophen has to be taken in large doses to cause damage.
>
> I heard about a guy who had liver damage from it, and went to ask him
> about it. Turns out he had taken the maximum dose per day, for about 7
> years.
>
> Where Acetominophen (Tylenol) is dangerous is when taken for a hangover,
> because it reacts with alcohol and does a lot of damage.
>
> So all these people using for hangovers are asking for trouble.
Actually, research just a few years ago has shown that some people
have a mutated gene which results in their livers producing an
enzyme that, instead of breaking down the alcohol and acetominophen,
causes it to be even more toxic. At least if you can believe what
you read in the newspapers...
> What I don't understand is why people use pain pills, when all they
> need to do is rehydrate and the hangover goes away. It's caused by the
> diuretic effect of alcohol.
Consciousness... fading... fast... must... drink... 3 gallons of water!
Or, two pills...
Charles Shannon Hendrix
>> So all these people using for hangovers are asking for trouble.
>
> Actually, research just a few years ago has shown that some people
> have a mutated gene which results in their livers producing an
> enzyme that, instead of breaking down the alcohol and acetominophen,
> causes it to be even more toxic. At least if you can believe what
> you read in the newspapers...
It's not a good combination wether you have mutated genes or not.
Alcohol is listed in the contraindication databases for acetominophen.
>> What I don't understand is why people use pain pills, when all they
>> need to do is rehydrate and the hangover goes away. It's caused by the
>> diuretic effect of alcohol.
>
> Consciousness... fading... fast... must... drink... 3 gallons of water!
>
> Or, two pills...
...which won't work, and might be dangerous.
Drink a couple glasses of water every hour.
No real hangover will be solved by pills.
Douglas H. Quebbeman
> In article <3e8c713e$1...@news.iglou.com>, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
>
> >> So all these people using for hangovers are asking for trouble.
> >
> > Actually, research just a few years ago has shown that some people
> > have a mutated gene which results in their livers producing an
> > enzyme that, instead of breaking down the alcohol and acetominophen,
> > causes it to be even more toxic. At least if you can believe what
> > you read in the newspapers...
>
> It's not a good combination wether you have mutated genes or not.
>
> Alcohol is listed in the contraindication databases for acetominophen.
Yes it is... a PDR has been my faithful companion since High School...
> >> What I don't understand is why people use pain pills, when all they
> >> need to do is rehydrate and the hangover goes away. It's caused by the
> >> diuretic effect of alcohol.
> >
> > Consciousness... fading... fast... must... drink... 3 gallons of water!
> >
> > Or, two pills...
>
> ...which won't work, and might be dangerous.
Well then, the placebo effect can't be beaten!
> Drink a couple glasses of water every hour.
After the first hour, wherein I'll have two or
three mixed drinks, I settle into alternating
between mixed drinks and soda water w/twist of
lemon & lime. I still get hung over...
> No real hangover will be solved by pills.
Ah, then I'm luck I get only fantask hangovers...
Never be dissuaded by anyone's personal experience!
After all, some prople think they've been on board
alien spaceships...
Peter G Capek
Jeff nor Lisa wrote:
> I was curious if anyone still uses mimeograph machines or if
> that technology was still in use in modern duplicators.
It's really difficult to answer this question with any authority.
However, I was curious about
the same thing a while back, and looked around at al the "traditional"
mimeograph manufacturers
and could find none who still made the product or supplies. That's not
a proof however, and it
certainly doesn't preclude some machines still being in use somewhere.
Indeed, the companies I
looked at (A B Dick, Gestetner, one or two others) may well have sold
the business to some
company I'm unaware of.
Nonetheless, the cost of xerographic copying is by now so close to the
cost of both mimeo and
ditto, and the ease of preparation of originals so great, that I'd be
surprised if either of these still
were in use more than in a few odd backwaters.
The notes on http://www.deadmedia.org/notes/40/408.html at the Dead
Media Project are
amusing and may be helpful.
Peter Capek
IBM Research
Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)
>
> Jeff nor Lisa wrote:
>
> > I was curious if anyone still uses mimeograph machines or if
> > that technology was still in use in modern duplicators.
My father had a working machine up to the time he died, about six years
ago. ISTR I found a buyer for it but memory fades a little among the
various machine tools, bottles of highly corrosive chemicals and
equipment for making silent movies that was in his workshop.
--
I am Robert Billing, Christian, author, inventor, traveller, cook
and animal lover. 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/
"It burned me from within. It quickened; I was with book as a
woman is with child." CS Lewis - Till we have faces, Ch 21.