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Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
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Andreas Kohlbach
Sep 22, 2021, 3:57:46 PM9/22/21
to
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> On 22/09/2021 06.11, SevenOverSix wrote:
>>
>> You could LOOK, but not TOUCH the mini-mainframes. Only
>> the Holy Elite were allowed in the Computer Room. You
>> could offer your sacrifice of punch-cards in the room
>> next door of course ............
>
> Oh, we had our lab time on the terminals.
>
> However, the machine got so busy with all the students compiling and
> testing their Pascal assignments (specially in the last weeks), that the
> editor would take seconds to respond to a keypress. So we counted: five
> lines down, then 12 letters right, then three deletes, then replace
> "tye" with "the", then wait :-D
>
> It was then that I decided I needed my own computer and asked my father
> to get me one. An Amstrad PC 1512, the student association had an
> agreement with a vendor. A bit weird vendor... it was not a computer
> shop, but a warehouse of some industrial thing... There no home PC
> computer vendors by that time, they were starting.
That was Spain at that time?
Similar in Germany. Dedicated computer shop chains only showed up later
in the 1980s and had their boom in the 1990s. Then most died.
Then you had general department stores which added home computers by the
early 1980s. Then you had hypermarkets (like Walmart or Carrefour today)
where you (in my case at least) only found products by Commodore. There I
got my C64 (1984) and Amiga 500 (1989) from.
[...]
>> Need to find a compatible tape cassette unit now. Junk
>> store ? COULD cheat and record to a modern PC audio
>> capture, but it's just not the same somehow :-)
>
> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make sure to
> not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the experiment, to find out.
There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before. They
sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found the show on
Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the
resulting WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It my
amazement it worked.
X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
[1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
page not even exists.
--
Andreas
>
> On 22/09/2021 06.11, SevenOverSix wrote:
>>
>> You could LOOK, but not TOUCH the mini-mainframes. Only
>> the Holy Elite were allowed in the Computer Room. You
>> could offer your sacrifice of punch-cards in the room
>> next door of course ............
>
> Oh, we had our lab time on the terminals.
>
> However, the machine got so busy with all the students compiling and
> testing their Pascal assignments (specially in the last weeks), that the
> editor would take seconds to respond to a keypress. So we counted: five
> lines down, then 12 letters right, then three deletes, then replace
> "tye" with "the", then wait :-D
>
> It was then that I decided I needed my own computer and asked my father
> to get me one. An Amstrad PC 1512, the student association had an
> agreement with a vendor. A bit weird vendor... it was not a computer
> shop, but a warehouse of some industrial thing... There no home PC
> computer vendors by that time, they were starting.
That was Spain at that time?
Similar in Germany. Dedicated computer shop chains only showed up later
in the 1980s and had their boom in the 1990s. Then most died.
Then you had general department stores which added home computers by the
early 1980s. Then you had hypermarkets (like Walmart or Carrefour today)
where you (in my case at least) only found products by Commodore. There I
got my C64 (1984) and Amiga 500 (1989) from.
[...]
>> Need to find a compatible tape cassette unit now. Junk
>> store ? COULD cheat and record to a modern PC audio
>> capture, but it's just not the same somehow :-)
>
> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make sure to
> not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the experiment, to find out.
There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before. They
sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found the show on
Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the
resulting WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It my
amazement it worked.
X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
[1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
page not even exists.
--
Andreas
Carlos E. R.
Sep 22, 2021, 7:00:26 PM9/22/21
to
On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>> On 22/09/2021 06.11, SevenOverSix wrote:
>>>
>>> You could LOOK, but not TOUCH the mini-mainframes. Only
>>> the Holy Elite were allowed in the Computer Room. You
>>> could offer your sacrifice of punch-cards in the room
>>> next door of course ............
>>
>> Oh, we had our lab time on the terminals.
>>
>> However, the machine got so busy with all the students compiling and
>> testing their Pascal assignments (specially in the last weeks), that the
>> editor would take seconds to respond to a keypress. So we counted: five
>> lines down, then 12 letters right, then three deletes, then replace
>> "tye" with "the", then wait :-D
>>
>> It was then that I decided I needed my own computer and asked my father
>> to get me one. An Amstrad PC 1512, the student association had an
>> agreement with a vendor. A bit weird vendor... it was not a computer
>> shop, but a warehouse of some industrial thing... There no home PC
>> computer vendors by that time, they were starting.
>
> That was Spain at that time?
More or less, dates are confusing. Well, the dates when the Amstrad
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>> On 22/09/2021 06.11, SevenOverSix wrote:
>>>
>>> You could LOOK, but not TOUCH the mini-mainframes. Only
>>> the Holy Elite were allowed in the Computer Room. You
>>> could offer your sacrifice of punch-cards in the room
>>> next door of course ............
>>
>> Oh, we had our lab time on the terminals.
>>
>> However, the machine got so busy with all the students compiling and
>> testing their Pascal assignments (specially in the last weeks), that the
>> editor would take seconds to respond to a keypress. So we counted: five
>> lines down, then 12 letters right, then three deletes, then replace
>> "tye" with "the", then wait :-D
>>
>> It was then that I decided I needed my own computer and asked my father
>> to get me one. An Amstrad PC 1512, the student association had an
>> agreement with a vendor. A bit weird vendor... it was not a computer
>> shop, but a warehouse of some industrial thing... There no home PC
>> computer vendors by that time, they were starting.
>
> That was Spain at that time?
started selling is known, must be on wikipedia.
>
> Similar in Germany. Dedicated computer shop chains only showed up later
> in the 1980s and had their boom in the 1990s. Then most died.
>
> Then you had general department stores which added home computers by the
> early 1980s.
And electronic component shops that besides oscilloscopes could sell you
a computer. Ah, HAM stuff shops, too.
> Then you had hypermarkets (like Walmart or Carrefour today)
> where you (in my case at least) only found products by Commodore. There I
> got my C64 (1984) and Amiga 500 (1989) from.
>
> [...]
>
>>> Need to find a compatible tape cassette unit now. Junk
>>> store ? COULD cheat and record to a modern PC audio
>>> capture, but it's just not the same somehow :-)
>>
>> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make sure to
>> not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the experiment, to find out.
>
> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before. They
> sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found the show on
> Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the
> resulting WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It my
> amazement it worked.
> X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
>
> [1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
> page not even exists.
>
--
Carlos E.R.
Kerr-Mudd, John
Sep 23, 2021, 5:22:22 AM9/23/21
to
On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 00:59:46 +0200
"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
[]
"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> >
> > There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
> > <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
> > They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
My googlfu is weak.
> > the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
> > position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
> > particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.
>
>
> Wow.
>
> > X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
>
> I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep
> comp.os.linux.misc.
>
> >
> > [1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a
> > Wikipedia page not even exists.
> >
> --
> Cheers,
> Carlos E.R.
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Carlos E. R.
Sep 23, 2021, 6:15:34 AM9/23/21
to
On 23/09/2021 11.14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 00:59:46 +0200
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> []
>
>>>
>>> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
>>> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
>>> They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
>
> I recall that happening; but wasn't it a BBC (Acorn) thing?
>
> My googlfu is weak.
>
>>> the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
>>> position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
>>> particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.
>>
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>>> X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
>>
>> I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep
>> comp.os.linux.misc.
>>
> Do it! Lot's of tales of yesteryear.
I have it at home, but not in my laptop, which is ancient and already
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 00:59:46 +0200
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> []
>
>>>
>>> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
>>> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
>>> They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
>
> I recall that happening; but wasn't it a BBC (Acorn) thing?
>
> My googlfu is weak.
>
>>> the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
>>> position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
>>> particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.
>>
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>>> X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
>>
>> I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep
>> comp.os.linux.misc.
>>
> Do it! Lot's of tales of yesteryear.
too loaded. I may try.
As a general rule, I don't like moving a thread from one group to
another, as people can be left out. Adding another group is ok.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Peter Flass
Sep 23, 2021, 10:32:06 AM9/23/21
to
Carlos E. R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be pretty
robust.
>
>> X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
>
> I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep comp.os.linux.misc.
>
>>
>> [1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
>> page not even exists.
>>
>
>
--
Pete
>> X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
>
> I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep comp.os.linux.misc.
>
>>
>> [1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
>> page not even exists.
>>
>
>
--
Rich
Sep 23, 2021, 11:45:15 AM9/23/21
to
simple format:
Format details are here: https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a control
byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the checksum is
just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other bytes in the record).
The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift keying, with
5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format was
hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that the
cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes it
worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading things all
over again sometimes magically had them work.
Charlie Gibbs
Sep 23, 2021, 2:31:35 PM9/23/21
to
cassette decks, but I had a couple of reel-to-reel decks, so I broke
into their motor circuits and built a control box that would use the
cassette motor control circuits to activate relays to switch 110-volt
motor power on and off.
I didn't have a real cassette interface in the beginning, but I did
have a Bell 202 modem (1200 bps async) that I picked up somewhere.
I recorded its output to tape and played it back in - it worked well
enough, although when I finally scraped up the bucks for a CUTS board
it was more reliable (but not much faster).
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
Peter Flass
Sep 23, 2021, 3:55:09 PM9/23/21
to
that it didn’t do this!
>
> I didn't have a real cassette interface in the beginning, but I did
> have a Bell 202 modem (1200 bps async) that I picked up somewhere.
> I recorded its output to tape and played it back in - it worked well
> enough, although when I finally scraped up the bucks for a CUTS board
> it was more reliable (but not much faster).
>
--
Carlos E. R.
Sep 23, 2021, 6:22:24 PM9/23/21
to
microphone, which in some/all tape machines stopped the motor.
That would be the Sinclair Spectrum if any, but can't vouch for it.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Kerr-Mudd, John
Sep 24, 2021, 7:42:06 AM9/24/21
to
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200
Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin cassette recorder.
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 24, 2021, 7:47:56 AM9/24/21
to
I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS.
Worked in bakershop in England to save money ti buy it.
Learned to program on z80.
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
Evil Sinner!
Worked in bakershop in England to save money ti buy it.
Learned to program on z80.
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
Kerr-Mudd, John
Sep 24, 2021, 8:40:11 AM9/24/21
to
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:47:53 GMT
Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS.
> Worked in bakershop in England to save money ti buy it.
> Learned to program on z80.
>
> --
> 7-77-777
> \|/
> ---
> /|\
>
Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom, there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I didn't do it last time, mea culpa).
Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS.
> Worked in bakershop in England to save money ti buy it.
> Learned to program on z80.
>
> --
> 7-77-777
> \|/
> ---
> /|\
>
[]
> >
> > Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a
> > builtin cassette recorder.
> >
>
>
> --
> Evil Sinner!
> > Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a
> > builtin cassette recorder.
> >
>
>
> --
> Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 24, 2021, 9:05:40 AM9/24/21
to
Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
will not even read what is written.
YES, CPC464 was very popular, and breaking SPEEDLOCK protections
as excercize :P
--
7-77-777
\|/
/|\
On 2021-09-24, Kerr-Mudd, John <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:47:53 GMT Branimir Maksimovic
> <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS. Worked in
>> bakershop in England to save money ti buy it. Learned to program on z80.
>>
>> -- 7-77-777 \|/ --- /|\
>>
> Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
> there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
> didn't do it last time, mea culpa).
>
>
>
>> On 2021-09-24, Kerr-Mudd, John <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> > On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200
> []
>> >
>> > Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin
>> > cassette recorder.
>> >
>>
>>
>> -- Evil Sinner!
>
>
--
Evil Sinner!
Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
will not even read what is written.
YES, CPC464 was very popular, and breaking SPEEDLOCK protections
as excercize :P
--
7-77-777
\|/
/|\
On 2021-09-24, Kerr-Mudd, John <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:47:53 GMT Branimir Maksimovic
> <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS. Worked in
>> bakershop in England to save money ti buy it. Learned to program on z80.
>>
>> -- 7-77-777 \|/ --- /|\
>>
> Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
> there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
> didn't do it last time, mea culpa).
>
>
>
>> On 2021-09-24, Kerr-Mudd, John <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> > On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200
> []
>> >
>> > Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin
>> > cassette recorder.
>> >
>>
>>
>> -- Evil Sinner!
>
>
--
Andrea Croci
Sep 24, 2021, 11:36:17 AM9/24/21
to
Same here. I so much hate having to scroll down to read what I want to
read, that could be just there for me to see.
read, that could be just there for me to see.
Charlie Gibbs
Sep 24, 2021, 1:16:57 PM9/24/21
to
On 2021-09-24, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
Or when you learn to spell "OK" properly... :-)
> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
> Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
> will not even read what is written.
If you can't be bothered taking the time to make your message
easy to read, I can't be bothered taking the time to decipher it.
Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
[1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | A: It messes up the flow of the thread.
\ / <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Q: Why is top-posting bad?
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | A: Top-posting.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Q: What is an impediment to readability?
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sep 24, 2021, 2:30:02 PM9/24/21
to
On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:16:55 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
> top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
> top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do. This is because there
is no list and so the entire thread has to be in every message so that if
someone else is added to the discussion they get the entire context. It
just means that when one of these monsters lands in the inbox you have to
start reading from the bottom, but at least by the time you get to the top
you know what they're on about.
> [1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Charlie Gibbs
Sep 24, 2021, 4:38:41 PM9/24/21
to
When you receive it, you photocopy the whole thing, staple your
reply to the top, and pass it on. Each time it comes back to you
you have another copy of the whole damned thing, growing thicker
every time. And all of those copies would be filling up everyone's
filing cabinets. Worst of all, trying to read such a monstrosity
from the beginning (i.e. bottom up) is a nightmare. If books were
printed that way, they would start with the last chapter, followed
by the second-to-last one, all the way down to the first chapter,
which appears at the end. Reading such a book in order would be a
supreme pain in the ass.
I realize that this habit has gotten so ingrained that it'll
probably never be eradicated. But I don't have to like it.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
Scott Lurndal
Sep 24, 2021, 5:02:40 PM9/24/21
to
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> writes:
>On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:16:55 GMT
>Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
>> top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
>
> At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
>above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do. This is because there
>is no list and so the entire thread has to be in every message so that if
>someone else is added to the discussion they get the entire context. It
>just means that when one of these monsters lands in the inbox you have to
>start reading from the bottom, but at least by the time you get to the top
>you know what they're on about.
>
Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
>On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:16:55 GMT
>Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
>> top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
>
> At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
>above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do. This is because there
>is no list and so the entire thread has to be in every message so that if
>someone else is added to the discussion they get the entire context. It
>just means that when one of these monsters lands in the inbox you have to
>start reading from the bottom, but at least by the time you get to the top
>you know what they're on about.
>
point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
reading new messages.
Jeff Gaines
Sep 24, 2021, 5:05:59 PM9/24/21
to
On 24/09/2021 in message
<20210924190832.0e31...@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
wrote:
>At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
>above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.
That's email, not Usenet posts. When you had to have some technical
knowledge to use a computer nobody top posted - email or Usenet - in fact
you would get chucked off mailing lists for top posting. It's only since
the hoi polloi started using email that top posting has been prevalent.
Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all
read top to bottom.
--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.
(Groucho Marx)
<20210924190832.0e31...@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
wrote:
>At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
>above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.
knowledge to use a computer nobody top posted - email or Usenet - in fact
you would get chucked off mailing lists for top posting. It's only since
the hoi polloi started using email that top posting has been prevalent.
Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all
read top to bottom.
--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.
(Groucho Marx)
Rich
Sep 24, 2021, 6:02:13 PM9/24/21
to
In comp.os.linux.misc Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
> Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
> will not even read what is written.
A: Because it reverses the normal top to bottom temporal order of
> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
> Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
> will not even read what is written.
English language text.
Q: Why should one not top post?
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 24, 2021, 8:07:53 PM9/24/21
to
Ana He even didn't notice THAT I AM NOT TOP POSTING,
rateher put text on WHAT I AM REPLYING UNDER '--',
SIGNATURE :P
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\d
--
Evil Sinner!
rateher put text on WHAT I AM REPLYING UNDER '--',
SIGNATURE :P
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\d
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 24, 2021, 8:12:21 PM9/24/21
to
OK, I am learning, bit NOT TOP POSTING, NOTE '--' SIGNATURE :P
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
On 2021-09-24, Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-09-24, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
>
> Or when you learn to spell "OK" properly... :-)
>
>> Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
>> will not even read what is written.
>
> That only happens when people don't trim quoted text appropriately.
>
> If you can't be bothered taking the time to make your message
> easy to read, I can't be bothered taking the time to decipher it.
>
> Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
> top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
>
> [1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"
>
--
Evil Sinner!
> On 2021-09-24, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
>
> Or when you learn to spell "OK" properly... :-)
>
>> Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
>> will not even read what is written.
>
> That only happens when people don't trim quoted text appropriately.
>
> If you can't be bothered taking the time to make your message
> easy to read, I can't be bothered taking the time to decipher it.
>
> Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
> top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
>
> [1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"
>
--
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 24, 2021, 8:23:57 PM9/24/21
to
I don;t top post, notice '--', SIGNATURE.
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
On 2021-09-24, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> existing since the 1980s. It's also to trim unnecessary quotes. Like I
> just did. Isn't that easier to read?
--
Evil Sinner!
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:05:37 GMT, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>>
>> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
>> Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
>> will not even read what is written.
>> YES, CPC464 was very popular, and breaking SPEEDLOCK protections
>> as excercize :P
>
> It's not only to (please) avoid top posting, regarding usenet conventions
>>
>> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
>> Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
>> will not even read what is written.
>> YES, CPC464 was very popular, and breaking SPEEDLOCK protections
>> as excercize :P
>
> existing since the 1980s. It's also to trim unnecessary quotes. Like I
> just did. Isn't that easier to read?
--
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 24, 2021, 8:29:29 PM9/24/21
to
> On 2021-09-24, Scott Lurndal <sc...@slp53.sl.home> wrote: Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <ste...@eircom.net> writes:
<...>
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
--
Evil Sinner!
> <ste...@eircom.net> writes:
<...>
>
> Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the point of
> the new reply rather than at the start of the message when reading new
> messages.
It is easy in VIM, just gq}, you have formated text and cursor position, BOTH.
> Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the point of
> the new reply rather than at the start of the message when reading new
> messages.
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 24, 2021, 8:33:06 PM9/24/21
to
On 2021-09-24, Jeff Gaines <jgaines...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
<...>
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
--
Evil Sinner!
<...>
>
> Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all read
> top to bottom.
>
Sure, but to make people *THINK* on WHAT YOU ARE REPLYING is MORE IMPORTANT.
> Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all read
> top to bottom.
>
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 24, 2021, 8:35:12 PM9/24/21
to
On 2021-09-24, Rich <ri...@example.invalid> wrote:
<...>
HAVE TO READ ALL in order to FIGURE OUT what you are replying.
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
--
Evil Sinner!
<...>
> A: Because it reverses the normal top to bottom temporal order of English
> language text.
>
> Q: Why should one not top post?
>
>
Because you break automatism and MAKE people AWARE of TEXT, because they
> language text.
>
> Q: Why should one not top post?
>
>
HAVE TO READ ALL in order to FIGURE OUT what you are replying.
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
Evil Sinner!
Aragorn
Sep 24, 2021, 9:01:07 PM9/24/21
to
On 25.09.2021 at 00:07, Branimir Maksimovic scribbled:
> Ana He even didn't notice THAT I AM NOT TOP POSTING,
> rateher put text on WHAT I AM REPLYING UNDER '--',
> SIGNATURE :P
1. Your signature delimiter is broken. It should be
"dash dash space", not "dash dash".
2. The signature should be no longer than four lines.
--
With respect,
= Aragorn =
> Ana He even didn't notice THAT I AM NOT TOP POSTING,
> rateher put text on WHAT I AM REPLYING UNDER '--',
> SIGNATURE :P
"dash dash space", not "dash dash".
2. The signature should be no longer than four lines.
--
With respect,
= Aragorn =
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sep 24, 2021, 11:00:02 PM9/24/21
to
On 24 Sep 2021 21:05:57 GMT
email.
> knowledge to use a computer nobody top posted - email or Usenet - in fact
Mailing list or USENET correct. My point was that Outlook is not
designed for mailing lists or USENET it is designed for direct email in a
corporate setting where top posting and full quotes are appropriate in
complete contrast to USENET and mailing lists where they are not.
"Jeff Gaines" <jgaines...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/09/2021 in message
> <20210924190832.0e31...@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> wrote:
>
> >At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
> >above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.
>
> That's email, not Usenet posts. When you had to have some technical
Correct, more to the point it is direct email not mailing list
> On 24/09/2021 in message
> <20210924190832.0e31...@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> wrote:
>
> >At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
> >above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.
>
> That's email, not Usenet posts. When you had to have some technical
email.
> knowledge to use a computer nobody top posted - email or Usenet - in fact
designed for mailing lists or USENET it is designed for direct email in a
corporate setting where top posting and full quotes are appropriate in
complete contrast to USENET and mailing lists where they are not.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sep 24, 2021, 11:00:03 PM9/24/21
to
be at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire thread. Interleaved
replies and snipping in that context is completely wrong it destroys
essential information.
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 24, 2021, 11:51:43 PM9/24/21
to
Corrected.
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
Evil Sinner!
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 24, 2021, 11:52:50 PM9/24/21
to
Why just four lines?
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
Evil Sinner!
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
On 2021-09-25, Aragorn <thor...@telenet.be> wrote:
Aragorn
Sep 25, 2021, 12:30:10 AM9/25/21
to
On 25.09.2021 at 03:51, Branimir Maksimovic scribbled:
> Corrected.
Not really. Your "signature" contains more than four lines, and your
message body contains no reference whatsoever as to what you are
replying to.
Most people on Usenet are subscribed to more than one newsgroup. Your
style of quoting makes that into a nightmare every time they stumble
upon your posts.
Usenet netiquette and convention stipulate that you would sbip the
irrelevant quoted content from your replies and that you write your own
replies underneath the remaining paragraphs in an interleaved fashion.
Any deviation from that standard makes the Usenet experience only
harder for everyone else, and needlessly so, because it really doesn't
cost any effort to do it right.
> Corrected.
Not really. Your "signature" contains more than four lines, and your
message body contains no reference whatsoever as to what you are
replying to.
Most people on Usenet are subscribed to more than one newsgroup. Your
style of quoting makes that into a nightmare every time they stumble
upon your posts.
Usenet netiquette and convention stipulate that you would sbip the
irrelevant quoted content from your replies and that you write your own
replies underneath the remaining paragraphs in an interleaved fashion.
Any deviation from that standard makes the Usenet experience only
harder for everyone else, and needlessly so, because it really doesn't
cost any effort to do it right.
Aragorn
Sep 25, 2021, 12:35:20 AM9/25/21
to
On 25.09.2021 at 03:52, Branimir Maksimovic scribbled:
> Why just four lines?
Netiquette. It's supposed to be a signature, not the Encyclopedia
Britanica.
> Why just four lines?
Netiquette. It's supposed to be a signature, not the Encyclopedia
Britanica.
J. Clarke
Sep 25, 2021, 1:19:59 AM9/25/21
to
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 06:35:19 +0200, Aragorn <thor...@telenet.be>
wrote:
>On 25.09.2021 at 03:52, Branimir Maksimovic scribbled:
>
>> Why just four lines?
>
>Netiquette. It's supposed to be a signature, not the Encyclopedia
>Britanica.
Geez, just plonk the twit.
wrote:
>On 25.09.2021 at 03:52, Branimir Maksimovic scribbled:
>
>> Why just four lines?
>
>Netiquette. It's supposed to be a signature, not the Encyclopedia
>Britanica.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sep 25, 2021, 3:00:02 AM9/25/21
to
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 02:06:45 -0400
Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 03:35:28 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:02:38 GMT
> > sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> >
> >> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> writes:
> >
> >> Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
> >> point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
> >> reading new messages.
> >
> > You have missed the point - in this context you want the
> > replies to be at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire
> > thread. Interleaved replies and snipping in that context is completely
> > wrong it destroys essential information.
>
> This is IMO okay in business environments. But not in the usenet.
Of course. My point was that Outlook is designed for business
environments not for USENET.
Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 03:35:28 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:02:38 GMT
> > sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> >
> >> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> writes:
> >
> >> Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
> >> point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
> >> reading new messages.
> >
> > You have missed the point - in this context you want the
> > replies to be at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire
> > thread. Interleaved replies and snipping in that context is completely
> > wrong it destroys essential information.
>
Of course. My point was that Outlook is designed for business
environments not for USENET.
Richard Kettlewell
Sep 25, 2021, 4:31:29 AM9/25/21
to
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> writes:
> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>> Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
>> point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
>> reading new messages.
>
> You have missed the point - in this context you want the replies to be
> at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire thread.
Anyone added to the discussion late has to read all the context
>> Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
>> point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
>> reading new messages.
>
> You have missed the point - in this context you want the replies to be
> at the top and you want a complete copy of the entire thread.
backwards. Speaking as someone is quite often added to discussions half
way through, that’s the opposite of what I want.
> Interleaved replies and snipping in that context is completely wrong
> it destroys essential information.
options.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
Stéphane CARPENTIER
Sep 25, 2021, 5:12:07 AM9/25/21
to
Le 25-09-2021, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> a écrit :
> On 2021-09-24, Rich <ri...@example.invalid> wrote:
><...>
>> A: Because it reverses the normal top to bottom temporal order of English
>> language text.
>>
>> Q: Why should one not top post?
>>
>>
> Because you break automatism and MAKE people AWARE of TEXT, because they
> HAVE TO READ ALL in order to FIGURE OUT what you are replying.
That's the purpose of removing everything out of context. Because usenet
> On 2021-09-24, Rich <ri...@example.invalid> wrote:
><...>
>> A: Because it reverses the normal top to bottom temporal order of English
>> language text.
>>
>> Q: Why should one not top post?
>>
>>
> Because you break automatism and MAKE people AWARE of TEXT, because they
> HAVE TO READ ALL in order to FIGURE OUT what you are replying.
is an asynchronous media, when you read the answer a week after, it can
be good to have a little context. It avoid the need to chose between
reading again the all message and reading nothing of it.
--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 25, 2021, 7:35:10 AM9/25/21
to
On 2021-09-25, Aragorn <thor...@telenet.be> wrote:
> On 25.09.2021 at 03:51, Branimir Maksimovic scribbled:
>
>> Corrected.
>
> Not really. Your "signature" contains more than four lines, and your
> message body contains no reference whatsoever as to what you are
> replying to.
>
Ok, I AM BACK TO SANITY.
>
>> Corrected.
>
> Not really. Your "signature" contains more than four lines, and your
> message body contains no reference whatsoever as to what you are
> replying to.
>
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 25, 2021, 7:36:14 AM9/25/21
to
On 2021-09-25, Aragorn <thor...@telenet.be> wrote:
> On 25.09.2021 at 03:52, Branimir Maksimovic scribbled:
>
>> Why just four lines?
>
> Netiquette. It's supposed to be a signature, not the Encyclopedia
> Britanica.
>
>
understood. Will just quote on what i am replying...
>
>> Why just four lines?
>
> Netiquette. It's supposed to be a signature, not the Encyclopedia
> Britanica.
>
>
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 25, 2021, 7:38:38 AM9/25/21
to
On 2021-09-25, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> If you reply in between the lines people can *easily* figure out what the
> previous poster relates to.
>
> When you otherwise have a large quote covering different topics but just
> top post a reply on top of it, it's hard to figure out what the reply
> refers to exactly.
OK. Learning, havent played with usenet for a while :P
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
> If you reply in between the lines people can *easily* figure out what the
> previous poster relates to.
>
> When you otherwise have a large quote covering different topics but just
> top post a reply on top of it, it's hard to figure out what the reply
> refers to exactly.
OK. Learning, havent played with usenet for a while :P
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 25, 2021, 7:39:25 AM9/25/21
to
On 2021-09-25, Stéphane CARPENTIER <s...@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
>>> Q: Why should one not top post?
>>>
>>>
>> Because you break automatism and MAKE people AWARE of TEXT, because they
>> HAVE TO READ ALL in order to FIGURE OUT what you are replying.
>
> That's the purpose of removing everything out of context. Because usenet
> is an asynchronous media, when you read the answer a week after, it can
> be good to have a little context. It avoid the need to chose between
> reading again the all message and reading nothing of it.
>
OK. LEARNED.
>>> Q: Why should one not top post?
>>>
>>>
>> Because you break automatism and MAKE people AWARE of TEXT, because they
>> HAVE TO READ ALL in order to FIGURE OUT what you are replying.
>
> That's the purpose of removing everything out of context. Because usenet
> is an asynchronous media, when you read the answer a week after, it can
> be good to have a little context. It avoid the need to chose between
> reading again the all message and reading nothing of it.
>
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 25, 2021, 7:45:35 AM9/25/21
to
not stand what is written :P
Just don't reply and relax, it's much better exercize :P
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Stéphane CARPENTIER
Sep 25, 2021, 9:44:42 AM9/25/21
to
Le 25-09-2021, Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> a écrit :
> On 2021-09-24, Jeff Gaines <jgaines...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
><...>
>>
>> Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all read
>> top to bottom.
>>
> Sure, but to make people *THINK* on WHAT YOU ARE REPLYING is MORE IMPORTANT.
Yes, when I read a message, if if see I need a little bit context, I'll
>
><...>
>>
>> Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all read
>> top to bottom.
>>
> Sure, but to make people *THINK* on WHAT YOU ARE REPLYING is MORE IMPORTANT.
read the short quotation above. I'll never read the long message bellow
and I'll consider the message as useless.
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 25, 2021, 9:55:09 AM9/25/21
to
> Yes, when I read a message, if if see I need a little bit context, I'll
> read the short quotation above. I'll never read the long message bellow
> and I'll consider the message as useless.
>
Then, snipping is most important?
> read the short quotation above. I'll never read the long message bellow
> and I'll consider the message as useless.
>
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sep 25, 2021, 11:00:02 AM9/25/21
to
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:27:01 -0400
Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 07:50:21 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> >
> > Of course. My point was that Outlook is designed for business
> > environments not for USENET.
>
> Microsoft failed to mention this small detail that to its customers. ;-)
I think they shout it from the rooftops to their big customers, the
ones that buy the big fat support contracts. Microsoft don't really care
about the home users - the PC vendors are their customers there.
Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 07:50:21 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> >
> > Of course. My point was that Outlook is designed for business
> > environments not for USENET.
>
I think they shout it from the rooftops to their big customers, the
ones that buy the big fat support contracts. Microsoft don't really care
about the home users - the PC vendors are their customers there.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sep 25, 2021, 11:00:03 AM9/25/21
to
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:55:07 GMT
Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Then, snipping is most important?
Indeed, there is some art in retaining the minimum useful context.
Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Then, snipping is most important?
Once upon a time it was common for USENET servers to reject posts that had
a poor ratio of new material to quoted material. Of course in those days
bandwidth[1] and storage were much more expensive - but human attention span
hasn't increased in line with those things so it is still useful to be
brief.
[1] In the early days of USENET many leaf sites had a 15 minute daily slot
to exchange data over a modem line using UUCP - all email, USENET and file
transfer (very unpopular with admins) traffic had to fit in that slot.
D.J.
Sep 25, 2021, 11:04:52 AM9/25/21
to
On 24 Sep 2021 21:05:57 GMT, "Jeff Gaines"
><20210924190832.0e31...@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>wrote:
>
>the hoi polloi started using email that top posting has been prevalent.
head boss, preferred it that way.
><20210924190832.0e31...@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>wrote:
>
>>At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
>>above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.
>
>That's email, not Usenet posts. When you had to have some technical
>>above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.
>
>That's email, not Usenet posts. When you had to have some technical
>knowledge to use a computer nobody top posted - email or Usenet - in fact
>you would get chucked off mailing lists for top posting. It's only since
>the hoi polloi started using email that top posting has been prevalent.
>
>Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all
>read top to bottom.
We had outlook at my last job, we all bottom posted. My boss, and the
>Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all
>read top to bottom.
head boss, preferred it that way.
gareth evans
Sep 25, 2021, 12:53:18 PM9/25/21
to
Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet,
and if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then
post both at the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which
should make everybody happy.
On 24/09/2021 13:40, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>
> Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom, there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I didn't do it last time, mea culpa).
>
Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet,
and if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then
post both at the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which
should make everybody happy.
and if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then
post both at the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which
should make everybody happy.
On 24/09/2021 13:40, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>
> Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom, there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I didn't do it last time, mea culpa).
>
Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet,
and if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then
post both at the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which
should make everybody happy.
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 25, 2021, 1:00:47 PM9/25/21
to
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.folklore.computers.]
>
> Well, leave an empty line between the quote an your text.
Like this?
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
On 2021-09-25, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> OK. Learning, havent played with usenet for a while :P
>
> Thanks, perfect. Thank you.
>> OK. Learning, havent played with usenet for a while :P
>
>
> Well, leave an empty line between the quote an your text.
Like this?
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 25, 2021, 1:02:01 PM9/25/21
to
On 2021-09-25, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
>> Then, snipping is most important?
>
> Indeed, there is some art in retaining the minimum useful context.
> Once upon a time it was common for USENET servers to reject posts that had
> a poor ratio of new material to quoted material. Of course in those days
> bandwidth[1] and storage were much more expensive - but human attention span
> hasn't increased in line with those things so it is still useful to be
> brief.
>
> [1] In the early days of USENET many leaf sites had a 15 minute daily slot
> to exchange data over a modem line using UUCP - all email, USENET and file
> transfer (very unpopular with admins) traffic had to fit in that slot.
>
Thanks, I'll remember, that just to aknowledge that I have read.
>> Then, snipping is most important?
>
> Indeed, there is some art in retaining the minimum useful context.
> Once upon a time it was common for USENET servers to reject posts that had
> a poor ratio of new material to quoted material. Of course in those days
> bandwidth[1] and storage were much more expensive - but human attention span
> hasn't increased in line with those things so it is still useful to be
> brief.
>
> [1] In the early days of USENET many leaf sites had a 15 minute daily slot
> to exchange data over a modem line using UUCP - all email, USENET and file
> transfer (very unpopular with admins) traffic had to fit in that slot.
>
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 25, 2021, 1:03:52 PM9/25/21
to
On 2021-09-25, gareth evans <headst...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet, and
> if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then post both at
> the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which should make everybody
> happy.
great, but please reformat text, it looks ugly on terminal text readers.
> Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet, and
> if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then post both at
> the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which should make everybody
> happy.
>
> On 24/09/2021 13:40, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>>
>> Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
>> there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
>> didn't do it last time, mea culpa).
>>
>
> Top and also bottom posting have always both been conventions on Usenet, and
> if you encounter a pedant who is up his own fundamentum, then post both at
> the top and also at the bottom, as this post, which should make everybody
> happy.
>
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Peter Flass
Sep 25, 2021, 3:28:24 PM9/25/21
to
don’t contain anything interesting.
--
Pete
Peter Flass
Sep 25, 2021, 3:28:25 PM9/25/21
to
--
Pete
J. Clarke
Sep 25, 2021, 3:59:14 PM9/25/21
to
Dave Garland
Sep 25, 2021, 11:36:17 PM9/25/21
to
Bobbie Sellers
Sep 26, 2021, 12:32:31 AM9/26/21
to
But even when we try, it is hard to get really properly formatted text
out of any sort of news-reader/mailer. To begin
to do a decent job the text must be checked from the saved draft
before letting it flutter out to the net.
bliss - Your tag lines (k) were stolen!
(more) There is a puff of smoke!
Quaff a potion of See Invisible.
Smeagol is at it again.
Quaff a potion of Speed.
Pretend you haven't eeen him.
Wait a turn until he tries for these lines.
The smite him with your enchanted dagger...
--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 26, 2021, 3:27:25 AM9/26/21
to
On 2021-09-26, Bobbie Sellers <bl...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> Pretend you haven't eeen him.
> Wait a turn until he tries for these lines.
> The smite him with your enchanted dagger...
>
Great allegory :P
> Pretend you haven't eeen him.
> Wait a turn until he tries for these lines.
> The smite him with your enchanted dagger...
>
--
7-77-777
evil Sinner!
Carlos E. R.
Sep 26, 2021, 8:52:04 AM9/26/21
to
On 26/09/2021 13.36, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> But even when we try, it is hard to get really properly
>> formatted text out of any sort of news-reader/mailer. To
>> begin
>> to do a decent job the text must be checked from the saved draft
>> before letting it flutter out to the net.
>
> You can always set an Expire line in the header otherwise. ;-)
>
> This article should evaporate from the usenet on
> 27 Sep 2021 23:59:00 -0400 to never be seen again.
We'll see :-)
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:32:28 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>
>> On 9/25/21 20:36, Dave Garland wrote:
>>>>
>>> Touché
>>>
>> It even looks ugly on Thunderbird.
I haven't noticed any issue in my Thunderbird
>>
>> On 9/25/21 20:36, Dave Garland wrote:
>>>>
>>> Touché
>>>
>> It even looks ugly on Thunderbird.
>> But even when we try, it is hard to get really properly
>> formatted text out of any sort of news-reader/mailer. To
>> begin
>> to do a decent job the text must be checked from the saved draft
>> before letting it flutter out to the net.
>
>
> This article should evaporate from the usenet on
> 27 Sep 2021 23:59:00 -0400 to never be seen again.
We'll see :-)
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
D.J.
Sep 27, 2021, 10:59:20 AM9/27/21
to
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 28, 2021, 9:12:01 PM9/28/21
to
On 2021-09-26, yamas <ya...@bloodyhell.no.way> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 00:07:49 +0000, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>
>> UNDER '--', SIGNATURE
>
> IOW, you're a moron. THAT, is NOT what a signature is, nor how you
> construct one!!!
>
Thanks, for compliment, is this now OK?
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 00:07:49 +0000, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
>
>> UNDER '--', SIGNATURE
>
> IOW, you're a moron. THAT, is NOT what a signature is, nor how you
> construct one!!!
>
Thanks, for compliment, is this now OK?
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
Sep 28, 2021, 9:15:59 PM9/28/21
to
it was somewhat difficult to setup without documentation :P
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sep 29, 2021, 2:00:05 AM9/29/21
to
On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 01:15:57 GMT
Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
> it was somewhat difficult to setup without documentation :P
Yep and you couldn't just google it and watch a youtube video of
Branimir Maksimovic <branimir....@gmail.com> wrote:
> it was somewhat difficult to setup without documentation :P
instructions.
The Natural Philosopher
Sep 29, 2021, 6:59:04 AM9/29/21
to
--
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.
- George Orwell
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Oct 4, 2021, 9:30:02 AM10/4/21
to
On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 08:57:49 -0400
Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> I think that, for business use, it would be better to put e-mail
> messages into some sort of central database and allow people to access
> previous replies in a conversation there (what a novel idea!), rather
> than having e-mail messages accrete into thousand-pagers where your
> fingers go numb if you try to scroll back to a reply near the beginning.
The only catch with that is that for business purposes you need
circulation control - at least some people think so and they may be right.
OTOH in the last couple of years with everybody working from home
Slack threads have tended to replace email for a lot of things and they do
work that way - it's a pity that the database belongs to another company
but hey B2B is all the rage these days.
Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> I think that, for business use, it would be better to put e-mail
> messages into some sort of central database and allow people to access
> previous replies in a conversation there (what a novel idea!), rather
> than having e-mail messages accrete into thousand-pagers where your
> fingers go numb if you try to scroll back to a reply near the beginning.
The only catch with that is that for business purposes you need
circulation control - at least some people think so and they may be right.
OTOH in the last couple of years with everybody working from home
Slack threads have tended to replace email for a lot of things and they do
work that way - it's a pity that the database belongs to another company
but hey B2B is all the rage these days.
The Natural Philosopher
Oct 4, 2021, 10:00:12 AM10/4/21
to
On 04/10/2021 13:44, Bud Frede wrote:
> Either MS doesn't know how to fix bugs, or more likely they just
> don't care.
Designed to sell, but not to work
--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."
― Confucius
> Either MS doesn't know how to fix bugs, or more likely they just
> don't care.
Designed to sell, but not to work
--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."
― Confucius
Branimir Maksimovic
Oct 4, 2021, 11:27:35 AM10/4/21
to
On 2021-10-04, Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> point.) Either MS doesn't know how to fix bugs, or more likely they just
> don't care.
They are paying low cost programmers, and save on engineers because
they are gready...
>
>
>
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
to weak you should be meek, and you should brainfuck stronger
https://github.com/rofl0r/chaos-pp
> point.) Either MS doesn't know how to fix bugs, or more likely they just
> don't care.
They are paying low cost programmers, and save on engineers because
they are gready...
>
>
>
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
to weak you should be meek, and you should brainfuck stronger
https://github.com/rofl0r/chaos-pp
The Natural Philosopher
Oct 4, 2021, 12:49:11 PM10/4/21
to
On 04/10/2021 16:27, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> On 2021-10-04, Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> point.) Either MS doesn't know how to fix bugs, or more likely they just
>> don't care.
>
> They are paying low cost programmers, and save on engineers because
> they are gready...
Every businessman knows that what sells product is marketing, not
> On 2021-10-04, Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> point.) Either MS doesn't know how to fix bugs, or more likely they just
>> don't care.
>
> They are paying low cost programmers, and save on engineers because
> they are gready...
engineering.
--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell
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