By the bucketful?

[gareth evans]

With the move to SMD and even great integration, I
wonder if there are bucketloads of wire-ended
resistors and transistors languishing somewhere?

We, as a group, could idly sit at home soldering
together enough NOR gates to make our own
PDP8 style computer.

And (Never start a sentence with a conjunction?), were
an LED to be used as part of the collector load of
every gate, then we'd have an optical work of art!

[Thomas Koenig]

gareth evans <headst...@yahoo.com> schrieb:

> With the move to SMD and even great integration, I
> wonder if there are bucketloads of wire-ended
> resistors and transistors languishing somewhere?
>
> We, as a group, could idly sit at home soldering
> together enough NOR gates to make our own
> PDP8 style computer.

That's been done for the 6502:

https://monster6502.com/

> And (Never start a sentence with a conjunction?), were
> an LED to be used as part of the collector load of
> every gate, then we'd have an optical work of art!

They did that, partially, it looks rather pretty.

[gareth evans]

Wow! Fantastic!

[JimP]

There are still ham radio operators rebuilding the old ham radios from
back in vaccum tube/valve days. Discreet components are used as well.

--
Jim

[Peter Flass]

Or. Remember the old Honeywell ads featuring animals made out of electronic
components??

--
Pete

[Questor]

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 10:07:51 +0000, gareth evans <headst...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>With the move to SMD and even great integration, I
>wonder if there are bucketloads of wire-ended
>resistors and transistors languishing somewhere?

Back in the 1960s I used to peruse surplus electronics catalogs. A lot of items
were discrete parts like potentiometers that could be easily removed from old
equipment. There were also "grab bags" of circuit boards, with the claim being
made that they contained dozens of possibly useful parts for the enterprising
amateur at just a couple of dollars. (At the time, transistors still cost
several dollars each.) The problem was that one had to be particularly skilled
at soldering in order to remove the part from the board without damaging it by
heat. And the leads of all these transistors, resistors, etc. had been cut very
short to be placed into the circuit board, making them very difficult to re-use
in any event.

There was also lots of unidentified military surplus electronic gear, often
large modular units with extra-thick metal chassis and cases. The problem with
these items is that many of them were designed to be run with voltage and/or
current levels not readily compatible with everyday consumer power. (For
example, requiring a power source of 400 volts.)

Automatic circuit board part placement and wave soldering machines have been
around for over thirty-five years, and bulk discrete parts have been long been
manufactured with those machines in mind. Even should you find some unused
parts, I'm not sure what you would do with say, a roll of hundreds of 10K-ohm
resistors. (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
code?)

>We, as a group, could idly sit at home soldering
>together enough NOR gates to make our own
>PDP8 style computer.

Some people want to re-live the past over and over, and some people have moved
on. While I dabbled with electronics as a youth, I'm not really a hardware
person and consequently don't care too much about what the silicon looks like.
And if I was a hardware person, I'd probably want to create something new,
rather than duplicate some fifty-year-old design.

[Charlie Gibbs]

Yes, indiscreet components were causing dirty signals.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

[gareth evans]

On 15/03/2021 19:04, Questor wrote:
> ... (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
> code?)

Especially in the body-tip-spot configuration?

[Joy Beeson]

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:04:26 GMT, use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:

> (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
> code?)

Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white.

I use it to put discreet inventory marks on my clothing.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2021-03-16, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:04:26 GMT, use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>
>> (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
>> code?)
>
> Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white.
>
> I use it to put discreet inventory marks on my clothing.

Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.

(That's probably rather indiscreet these days.)

[J. Clarke]

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 23:07:38 -0400, Joy Beeson
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:04:26 GMT, use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>
>> (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
>> code?)
>
>Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white.
>
>I use it to put discreet inventory marks on my clothing.

Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly, Get Some Now

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:04:26 GMT

use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:

> (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
> code?)

Bill Baley Rapes Our Young Girls But Violet Goes Willingly

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2021-03-16, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:04:26 GMT, use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>>
>>> (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
>>> code?)
>>
>> Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white.
>>
>> I use it to put discreet inventory marks on my clothing.
>
> Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
>
> (That's probably rather indiscreet these days.)

Now? I knew better than to tell my classes that one 20 years ago.

[Charlie Gibbs]

How about 40 years ago?

[Scott Lurndal]

Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>On 2021-03-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2021-03-16, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:04:26 GMT, use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
>>>>> code?)
>>>>
>>>> Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white.
>>>>
>>>> I use it to put discreet inventory marks on my clothing.
>>>
>>> Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
>>>
>>> (That's probably rather indiscreet these days.)
>>
>> Now? I knew better than to tell my classes that one 20 years ago.
>
>How about 40 years ago?

It wasn't taught in the 70's that way in any electronics class
that I attended.

[JimP]

On 16 Mar 2021 03:47:29 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2021-03-16, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:04:26 GMT, use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>>
>>> (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
>>> code?)
>>
>> Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white.
>>
>> I use it to put discreet inventory marks on my clothing.
>
>Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
>
>(That's probably rather indiscreet these days.)

We were taught that in US Navy tech school around the late 1960s.

--
Jim

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2021-03-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2021-03-16, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:04:26 GMT, use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
>>>>> code?)
>>>>
>>>> Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white.
>>>>
>>>> I use it to put discreet inventory marks on my clothing.
>>>
>>> Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
>>>
>>> (That's probably rather indiscreet these days.)
>>
>> Now? I knew better than to tell my classes that one 20 years ago.
>
> How about 40 years ago?

I wasn't teaching yet 40 years ago... I tended to understand avoiding
saying things that would get me in trouble pretty early, though.

[Don Poitras]

A somewhat cleaned up version in my 1972 electric shop class:

Bad Boys Raise Our Young Girls Behind Victorian Garden Walls

Didn't really make much sense, but it was easy to remember. :)

--
Don Poitras

[gareth evans]

40 years ago at The Westinghouse Brake And Signal Company, it was ...

"Black Bastards Rape Our Young Girls But Virgins Go Without"

[Questor]

Extra points for including the tolerance band.

In my youth I laboriously memorized the code by having to repeatedly look up
values. No one ever told me, and I never noticed until I was an adult, about
our old friend, Roy G. Biv, being in there. That would have made it a lot
easier to remember.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 10:12:39 -0600
Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

> Now? I knew better than to tell my classes that one 20 years ago.

I certainly didn't hear it in a class I doubt it has ever been used
in a class.

[Bob Eager]

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 23:07:38 -0400, Joy Beeson wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:04:26 GMT, use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>
>> (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister color
>> code?)
>
> Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white.
>
> I use it to put discreet inventory marks on my clothing.

Of course! There's a UK quiz show called Only Connect, which is quite
hard. One round has four things in a sequence - can be pictures, music,
words, whatever. The team is shown the first item and gets 5 points if
they can predict the fourth. They get 3 points if they ask to see the
second item, and 1 point if they need the third (I think).

I have done it twice from the first item alone. Once was a picture of (I
think) Battersea Power Station, and I guessed (correctly) that the fourth
was a picture of a burning man.

The other was just "0=black". I immediately said "3=orange" and my wife
looked at me as if I'd gone mad. She was amazed when I turned out to be
right...



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

[Bob Martin]

> .

[Bob Martin]

On 16 Mar 2021 at 16:12:39, Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

RAF in 1950s was "Billy Brown read out your green book in verse"
where last 3 were blue, indigo, violet.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

Rather Old Yeast Goes Black In Vinegar (my dad).



--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[J. Clarke]

But did it have anything for the precision bands? I liked the "Get
Some Now" addendum--"Gold, Silver, Nothing"

[Joe Pfeiffer]

But that's only nine colors, and indigo shouldn't be one of them. It's
like it switched from resistor color codes to the rainbow partway
through.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

That's the rainbow, not resistor color codes.

[Charlie Gibbs]

Thread drift! It got infected by the Roy G. Biv virus.

[J. Clarke]

Just for the software people who have never seen a resistor:

B = Black = 0
B = Brown = 1
R = Red = 2
O = Orange = 3
Y = Yellow = 4
G = Green = 5
B = Blue = 6
V = Violet = 7
G = Gray = 8
W = White = 9

For a typical resistor with 3 or 4 bands the code works in two ways.
There are typically 3 bands on a resistor. The first two are digits
and the third is a power of 10. So a 2300 ohm resistor would be
Red-Orange-Red. If there is a fourth band it will be a tolerance
band--gold for 5% and silver for 10%. No fourth band implies 20%.

There are also 5-band resistors in which the first four bands are 3
digits and a power of ten and the fifth is the tolerance. Where there
is a fifth band the color code for tolerance somewhat chaotic.

Note that Indigo from the rainbow spectrum is not present and Black,
Brown, Gray, and White which do not appear in the rainbow spectrum
_are_ present.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 16:39:42 GMT, J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com>

What colo[u]r is the underlying resistor?

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 16:02:02 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2021-03-17, Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 16 Mar 2021 at 16:12:39, Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu>
wrote:
>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2021-03-16, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:04:26 GMT, use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Without looking, how many of you still remember the resister
color
>>>>>>> code?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray,
white.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I use it to put discreet inventory marks on my clothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
>>>>>
>>>>> (That's probably rather indiscreet these days.)
>>>>
>>>> Now? I knew better than to tell my classes that one 20 years ago.
>>>
>>> RAF in 1950s was "Billy Brown read out your green book in verse"
>>> where last 3 were blue, indigo, violet.
>>
>> But that's only nine colors, and indigo shouldn't be one of them.
It's
>> like it switched from resistor color codes to the rainbow partway
>> through.
>
> Thread drift! It got infected by the Roy G. Biv virus.
>

[Like]

[gareth evans]

... and traditionally ... Richard Of York Gave Battle In Vain

[gareth evans]

On 17/03/2021 17:35, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
> What colo[u]r is the underlying resistor?

Before, or after, it overheated and let out
the blue smoke? :-)

[Joy Beeson]

On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 18:44:20 +0000 (UTC), poi...@pobox.com (Don
Poitras) wrote:

> A somewhat cleaned up version in my 1972 electric shop class:
>
> Bad Boys Raise Our Young Girls Behind Victorian Garden Walls
>
> Didn't really make much sense, but it was easy to remember. :)

Not nearly as easy to remember as the code itself:

0 black doesn't reflect light
1 brown doesn't reflect much
2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 the rainbow, with red (infra-red) at the bottom and
violet (ultra-violet) at the top. We learned the color wheel in
kindergarten.

White reflects the most light, so it has to be the biggest digit.

That leave gray for eight.


And you don't have to remember which B is black, which is brown, and
which is blue.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2021-03-20, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 18:44:20 +0000 (UTC), poi...@pobox.com (Don
> Poitras) wrote:
>
>> A somewhat cleaned up version in my 1972 electric shop class:
>>
>> Bad Boys Raise Our Young Girls Behind Victorian Garden Walls
>>
>> Didn't really make much sense, but it was easy to remember. :)
>
> Not nearly as easy to remember as the code itself:
>
> 0 black doesn't reflect light
> 1 brown doesn't reflect much
> 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 the rainbow, with red (infra-red) at the bottom and
> violet (ultra-violet) at the top. We learned the color wheel in
> kindergarten.
>
> White reflects the most light, so it has to be the biggest digit.
>
> That leave gray for eight.
>
> And you don't have to remember which B is black, which is brown, and
> which is blue.

Not bad. In addition, however, you must remember to omit indigo.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana

[Mike Spencer]

Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> Not bad. In addition, however, you must remember to omit indigo.

Which, in any case and AIUI, was inserted into the notional spectrum
in the 17th c. despite there being difficulty distinguishing it from
blue & violet because seven colors was more mystical, musical,
perfect, occult, godly or something than six.

And then there's the color of The Damned Thing according to Ambrose
Bierce -- I suppose when you know there should be a color band just
>there< but you can't see it. :-o


--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

[Charlie Gibbs]

And then there's octarine...

[Mike Spencer]

Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2021-03-20, Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>> And then there's the color of The Damned Thing according to Ambrose
>> Bierce -- I suppose when you know there should be a color band just
>> >there< but you can't see it. :-o
>
> And then there's octarine...

Indeed.

See my X-Clacks-Overhead: NNTP header, slightly updated for CoI. [1]
Anybody who knows about octarine can use it too.

No one in truly dead while his name is still spoken.

[1] Clacks over Internet

[Joe Pfeiffer]

I know after you tell me this will have been obvious, but... what does
"4GH" reference?

[J. Clarke]

On 21 Mar 2021 04:00:29 -0300, Mike Spencer

<m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

>
>Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2021-03-20, Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>>
>>> And then there's the color of The Damned Thing according to Ambrose
>>> Bierce -- I suppose when you know there should be a color band just
>>> >there< but you can't see it. :-o
>>
>> And then there's octarine...
>
>Indeed.
>
>See my X-Clacks-Overhead: NNTP header, slightly updated for CoI. [1]
>Anybody who knows about octarine can use it too.

In a certain department in a certain major financial services company,
a decision made every year was what color the folders that contain
certain documents would be. When the pandemic rolled around it became
clear that there would be no physical folders for 2020. The document
specifying what is to be in these folders was called "20xx Blue (or
green or orange or whatever) Folders". It was suggested that since
for 2020 they will be imaginary folders the name of the descriptive
document should use an imaginary color--"Octarine". This was accepted
by management and is now part of that process.

[Mike Spencer]

Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:

> I know after you tell me this will have been obvious, but... what
> does "4GH" reference?

Thew go-anywhere, do-anything, leave-no-trace personal-code prefix
employed by Nick Haflinger in "Shockwave Rider".

Excessively geekish lit-crit pedants might say that a close reading of
Brunner's text would indicate that 4GH is not 100% bit-compatible with
GNU. I take a less narrow view. :-)

[Vir Campestris]

On 16/03/2021 21:10, Bob Eager wrote:
> Of course! There's a UK quiz show called Only Connect, which is quite
> hard. One round has four things in a sequence - can be pictures, music,
> words, whatever. The team is shown the first item and gets 5 points if
> they can predict the fourth. They get 3 points if they ask to see the
> second item, and 1 point if they need the third (I think).
>
> I have done it twice from the first item alone. Once was a picture of (I
> think) Battersea Power Station, and I guessed (correctly) that the fourth
> was a picture of a burning man.
>
> The other was just "0=black". I immediately said "3=orange" and my wife
> looked at me as if I'd gone mad. She was amazed when I turned out to be
> right...

For those of you with Internet the Beeb think is in the UK Only connect
is at

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b00lskhg/only-connect>

ISTR going "Oh of course" at the answer. But then I'm software...


(... Though we're rewatching Babylon 5 at the moment, and I did a
complete doubletake when one of the characters was being killed slowly.
By a device whose controls seemed to be a desoldering tool!)

Andy

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Ah. Not one I've read.

[Mike Spencer]

John Brunner, 1975. Arguably the first cyberpunk novel [1]. You
should hasten [2] to find a copy. Fundamental part of geekdom's
fiction canon. Anticipates much of today's technology as well as its
worrisome influence on the polity. We're almost at the stage,
f'rgzample, where someone can create a complete new identity using
only a cell phone. I predict that you'll enjoy reading it.

[1] Okay, omnes festinatio ex parte diaboli est, so not "hasten". But
better than "with deliberate speed."

[2] If you exclude Bruce Jackson's much-overlooked "The Programmer",
which is set in a 1970s contemporary context w/ modems, terminals and
other 70s tech rather than the barely-imaginable near future of
"Shockwave Rider".

[J. Clarke]

Yep. Of course it's quite amazing the feats of surgery that Dr. McCoy
performed with a salt shaker.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

> Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>
>> Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>
>>> Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>>>
>>>> I know after you tell me this will have been obvious, but... what
>>>> does "4GH" reference?
>>>
>>> Thew go-anywhere, do-anything, leave-no-trace personal-code prefix
>>> employed by Nick Haflinger in "Shockwave Rider".
>>>
>>> Excessively geekish lit-crit pedants might say that a close reading of
>>> Brunner's text would indicate that 4GH is not 100% bit-compatible with
>>> GNU. I take a less narrow view. :-)
>>
>> Ah. Not one I've read.
>
> John Brunner, 1975. Arguably the first cyberpunk novel [1]. You
> should hasten [2] to find a copy. Fundamental part of geekdom's
> fiction canon. Anticipates much of today's technology as well as its
> worrisome influence on the polity. We're almost at the stage,
> f'rgzample, where someone can create a complete new identity using
> only a cell phone. I predict that you'll enjoy reading it.

Lookie what I found!
https://vx-underground.org/archive/other/VxHeavenPdfs/The%20Shockwave%20Rider.pdf

[Mike Spencer]

Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:

> Lookie what I found!
>
> https://vx-underground.org/archive/other/VxHeavenPdfs/The%20Shockwave%20Rider.pdf

Good on you! Thanks. Now I can grep & scan in it. Difficult w/
tattered hardcopy.

Enjoy!

[JimP]

On 21 Mar 2021 19:20:45 -0300, Mike Spencer

While it is a game, Transhuman Space is also about the future. Much
more digital people than in Ghost in the Shell movie.

--
Jim

[Questor]

On 21 Mar 2021 19:20:45 -0300, Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

>Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>>Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>>Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>>>>I know after you tell me this will have been obvious, but... what
>>>>does "4GH" reference?
>>>
>>>Thew go-anywhere, do-anything, leave-no-trace personal-code prefix
>>>employed by Nick Haflinger in "Shockwave Rider".
>>>
>>>Excessively geekish lit-crit pedants might say that a close reading of
>>>Brunner's text would indicate that 4GH is not 100% bit-compatible with
>>>GNU. I take a less narrow view. :-)
>>
>>Ah. Not one I've read.
>
>John Brunner, 1975. Arguably the first cyberpunk novel [1]. You
>should hasten [2] to find a copy. Fundamental part of geekdom's
>fiction canon. Anticipates much of today's technology as well as its
>worrisome influence on the polity. We're almost at the stage,
>f'rgzample, where someone can create a complete new identity using
>only a cell phone. I predict that you'll enjoy reading it.

Another up vote for "Shockwave Rider." If it's not the first cyberpunk novel,
then it's certainly one of the first. Other notable Brunner titles with
interesting looks into the future are "Stand on Zanzibar" and the rather grim
"The Sheep Look Up."

[Peter Flass]

Second that. i read it at least twice, some years apart, and the second
time I was amazed by how much what I thought of as far out had come to
pass.

--
Pete

[Mike Spencer]

use...@only.tnx (Questor) writes:

> Another up vote for "Shockwave Rider." If it's not the first
> cyberpunk novel, then it's certainly one of the first. Other
> notable Brunner titles with interesting looks into the future are

> "Stand on Zanzibar"...

Yes. From which we get the term "pattiducking", essentially what
moderny neural-net-based AI does (or, perhaps gullibly, we suppose
them to do.)

Fifty-three years on, Zanzibar is no longer big enough even for
close-order drill with only a few sq. ft. per person. Vancouver
Island, clear-cut and graded flat, would still be big enough for us
all to stand or even lie down and take a nap -- but just barely.

> ...and the rather grim "The Sheep Look Up."

Grim indeed. "We can just about...live within our means...if we
exterminate the two hundred million most extravagant and wasteful of
our species."

Opening the door, Mrs. Byrne sniffed. Smoke! And if she could
smell it with her heavy head cold, it must be a tremendous fire!

"We ought to call the brigade!" she exclaimed. "Is it a
hayrick?"

"The brigade would have a long way to go," the doctor told he
curtly. "It's from America. The wind's blowing that way."

[Vir Campestris]

On 22/03/2021 01:01, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> Lookie what I found!
> https://vx-underground.org/archive/other/VxHeavenPdfs/The%20Shockwave%20Rider.pdf

You are a very naughty person.

(And so am I! - thanks)

I have Stand on Zanzibar in paperback. My only Brunner.

Andy

[Scott Lurndal]

The only Brunner I ever finished was _Polymath_.

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2021-03-22, Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

> Fifty-three years on, Zanzibar is no longer big enough even for
> close-order drill with only a few sq. ft. per person. Vancouver
> Island, clear-cut and graded flat, would still be big enough for us
> all to stand or even lie down and take a nap -- but just barely.

According to my oft-repeated back-of-the-envelope calculation,
if the politicians get their wish and get our population back
to doubling every 40 years where it belongs, the entire planet
will be in that condition in a mere 600 years. Just be patient.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 22 Mar 2021 23:27:09 GMT

Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> On 2021-03-22, Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> > Fifty-three years on, Zanzibar is no longer big enough even for
> > close-order drill with only a few sq. ft. per person. Vancouver
> > Island, clear-cut and graded flat, would still be big enough for us
> > all to stand or even lie down and take a nap -- but just barely.
>
> According to my oft-repeated back-of-the-envelope calculation,
> if the politicians get their wish and get our population back
> to doubling every 40 years where it belongs, the entire planet
> will be in that condition in a mere 600 years. Just be patient.

No problem, mass emigration on oversized Orion nuclear pulse jets.
Those who remain behind won't be overbreeding for a while and there will be
rampant evolution to help fill the gaps in the ecology, come back in 500
years and you won't know the old place.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

[Bob Eager]

I have:

Born Under Mars
No Future In it
No Other Gods But Me
Not Before Time
Out Of My Mind
The Stone That Never Came Down
The Telepathist
The Tides of Time
Time Jump
Times Without Number
Timescoop
Web of Everywhere




--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

[maus]

On 2021-03-23, Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 21:58:04 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
>
>> On 22/03/2021 01:01, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>> Lookie what I found!
>>> https://vx-underground.org/archive/other/VxHeavenPdfs/
> The%20Shockwave%20Rider.pdf
>>
>> You are a very naughty person.
>>
>> (And so am I! - thanks)
>>
>> I have Stand on Zanzibar in paperback. My only Brunner.
>
> I have:
>
> Born Under Mars
> No Future In it
> No Other Gods But Me
> Not Before Time
> Out Of My Mind
> The Stone That Never Came Down
> The Telepathist
> The Tides of Time
> Time Jump
> Times Without Number
> Timescoop
> Web of Everywhere
>
>
>
>

Not many people notice the old thesis on Interplanity travel, the war of
the worlds, HG Well, on what can go wrong when alien species mix. We
shoulld be very careful when bringing back material from Mars.



--
grey...@mail.com

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 23:27:09 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2021-03-22, Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>> Fifty-three years on, Zanzibar is no longer big enough even for
>> close-order drill with only a few sq. ft. per person. Vancouver
>> Island, clear-cut and graded flat, would still be big enough for us
>> all to stand or even lie down and take a nap -- but just barely.
>
> According to my oft-repeated back-of-the-envelope calculation,
> if the politicians get their wish and get our population back
> to doubling every 40 years where it belongs, the entire planet
> will be in that condition in a mere 600 years. Just be patient.
>

Biggest Ponzi-scheme Ever.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[JimP]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 21:58:04 +0000, Vir Campestris

I remember Stand... To me it looked like paragraphs were tossed into
air, and then placed into a book in whatever sequence they were picked
up. Reminded me of the manuals for Lotus 1-2-3. I finished neither.

--
Jim

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 11:53:33 -0500
JimP <chuckt...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I remember Stand... To me it looked like paragraphs were tossed into
> air, and then placed into a book in whatever sequence they were picked
> up.

New Wave, I always found that crowd hard and unrewarding to read.

[Mike Spencer]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> writes:

> On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 11:53:33 -0500
> JimP <chuckt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>> I remember Stand [on Zanzibar]... To me it looked like paragraphs

>> were tossed into air, and then placed into a book in whatever
>> sequence they were picked up.
>

> New Wave...

I'm not into Deeper LitCrit so bits I've seen about Brunner creating
or embodying a new [wave?] literary style have drifted by without much
attention.

But the fragmented style of SoZ seemed to me exactly consonant with
the future-shock, media-blitz, mind-boggling-complexity aspects of his
contemporary and near-future society that he was experiencing and
anticipating. .

I personally like best fully coherent and literate writing. Neal
Stephenson's Cryptonomicon and Baroque Cycle (which I think of as a
single huge magnum opus) come to mind as examples -- the best book,
collectively, I've read in 60 years. But when Brunner does what he
does in SoZ, I get it.

> ...I always found that crowd hard and unrewarding to read.

Does Pynchon fall in the New Wave camp? I loved The Crying of Lot 49,
struggled unrewardingly through V. and have tried three time to read
Gravity's Rainbow, running aground early on in each case.

ObAFC: Shockwave Rider had remarkably good depictions of tech
developments over the next and then as yet un-happened 50 years.