Old BASIC program books
Peter Barrett
Howdy, group. Some friends and I were just talking about
Christmases past, and my recollection involved my 1st computer, the
TI99/4A. My parents weren't exactly rich but in 1983, with my father's
first paycheck at a new job, brought home a TI99/4A personal computer for
$99. With this, a battered tape drive and a bunch of books, I began years
of computer oriented time wasting.
I remember one book in particular that I would like to own again,
if you ladies and gents could be bothered to check your closets. Now bear
with me, because I'm dredging this out of dusty and probably faulty memory.
The book was a volume of BASIC programs, mostly games, collected from the
pages of one of the enthusiast PC magazines of the time. Computes or
Personal Computing stands out in my mind. It was softcover, with a cover
color best described as pea-soup green. It was about an inch thick, and
contained 20-40 programs with a brief description, a few 'screen shots', a
program listing, and what captured my imagination, black and white line
drawings of robots that were related to the program. I recall a game
called 'Camel', something about hitting a Schmoo with a mudball catapult, a
pinball game, a battleship like game, and an auto racing game. It was
bought in Canada in December 1983, so it was probably published a year or
so before then.
If anyone knows what I'm talking about, and you have this book and
wouldn't mind selling it to a sentimental geek, please let me know. I try
to read this group every day so feel free to reply here. Thanks!
---Pete
MH McCabe
I think the book you are describing was put out by David Ahl in about
1981-1982 and had "Creative Computing" (a defunct but wonderful magazine)
in the title. Try searching a local college library, those books tended
to make the rounds with CS-101 students just learning to program in BASIC.
Micheal H. McCabe
mhmc...@aol.com
Johnny Billquist
>I think the book you are describing was put out by David Ahl in about
>1981-1982 and had "Creative Computing" (a defunct but wonderful magazine)
>in the title. Try searching a local college library, those books tended
>to make the rounds with CS-101 students just learning to program in BASIC.
It's "101 Basic Computer Games" by David Ahl.
It was orignially published by Digital Press, I believe. From the look
of it, it seems to have had some connection with "Creative Computing",
and I also believe David Ahl wrote articles for that magazine.
(I also believed that David Ahl was employed by DEC at some time).
Some speculations, and some facts. Take it as it is.
There was also a sequel to this book, called "More Basic Computer Games",
or something like that.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Bill Marcum
In article <59ja1c$cf6$1...@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>
>It's "101 Basic Computer Games" by David Ahl.
>
Ahl?"
--
Bill Marcum bma...@iglou.com
"You can pay Uncle Sam with the overtime
Is that all you get for your money?" --Billy Joel
Tim Shoppa
In article </pKvyk39r...@netmcr.com>,
Peter Barrett <pbar...@netmcr.com> wrote:
> I remember one book in particular that I would like to own again,
>if you ladies and gents could be bothered to check your closets. Now bear
>with me, because I'm dredging this out of dusty and probably faulty memory.
>The book was a volume of BASIC programs, mostly games, collected from the
>pages of one of the enthusiast PC magazines of the time. Computes or
>Personal Computing stands out in my mind. It was softcover, with a cover
>color best described as pea-soup green.
Sounds like _101 Basic Computer Games_, by David Ahl. A quick search
through my library at works yields these matches to David Ahl:
:1 More basic computer games / edited by David H. Ahl ; program conversion
by Steve North ; ill. by George Beker ; pref. by Christopher Cerf.
GV 1469.2 M67 1979
:2 Computers in mathematics : a sourcebook of ideas / edited by David H.
Ahl.
QA 76.95 C65 1979
:3 Basic computer games / edited by David H. Ahl ; program conversion by
Steve North ; ill. by George Beker.
GV 1469.2 O52 1978
:4 The Best of Creative computing / edited by David H. Ahl.
QA 76 B475
Ahl founded _Creative Computing_ in 1974.
> It was about an inch thick, and
>contained 20-40 programs with a brief description, a few 'screen shots', a
>program listing, and what captured my imagination, black and white line
>drawings of robots that were related to the program.
My edition sounds a bit different: it was 8.5 in x 11 in, approximately
100 pages long (about 3/8 in thick), and had no screen shots. The
listings in my edition were created on a line printer, reduced by
about a factor of 3, and then photographically included into the book.
There were no "screen shots" (how could there be? The games were
obviously written to be played on a hardcopy terminal!) but there
were drawings of robots. I'm willing to bet you just have a later
edition.
> I recall a game
>called 'Camel', something about hitting a Schmoo with a mudball catapult, a
>pinball game, a battleship like game, and an auto racing game.
It certainly sounds like the style of games in _101 Basic Computer
Games_ or its sequel.
At the moment, I've just found a half-dozen 8" floppies
with "Creative Computing" labels. There's English and French
versions of _Adventure_, and 4 more floppies labeled "Basic
Computer Games" and "More Basic Computer Games". Sounds like
its time for me to go boot up the IMSAI and the Shugarts,
find my 17-year-old pirated copy of MBASIC, and see if I can refresh my
memory here... If this is unsuccesful, I'll go check my library
at work when I get there tomorrow.
Tim. (sho...@triumf.ca)
Larry Anderson & Diane Hare
Actually the book you are ferring to I think is the "More BASIC
Computer Games" by David Ahl. The Original BASIC Computer Games had a
yellow cover. :) (I have both and I'm for sure not giving them up!)
Larry Anderson
P.S. I recently discovered another Computer Games Book by Ahl - "Big
Computer Games", copyright 1984.
Peter Barrett
In article <59ja1c$cf6$1...@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>,
b...@Zeke.Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist) wrote:
>In <19961222041...@ladder01.news.aol.com> mhmc...@aol.com (MH McCabe) writes:
>
>>I think the book you are describing was put out by David Ahl in about
>>1981-1982 and had "Creative Computing" (a defunct but wonderful magazine)
>>in the title. Try searching a local college library, those books tended
>>to make the rounds with CS-101 students just learning to program in BASIC.
>
>It's "101 Basic Computer Games" by David Ahl.
>
>It was orignially published by Digital Press, I believe. From the look
>of it, it seems to have had some connection with "Creative Computing",
>and I also believe David Ahl wrote articles for that magazine.
>(I also believed that David Ahl was employed by DEC at some time).
Thanks to all who replied and helped to jog my lousy memory. I am
pretty sure that Creative Computing was the magazine and David Ahl was the
author. I went webbing for a used copy and the best I could find was an
entry in amazon:
101 Basic Computer Games
Paperback
Published by Digital Pr
Publication date: June 1975
ISBN: 999381038X
THIS ITEM IS CURRENTLY NOT AVAILABLE. Though not officially "out of print,"
this item is "out of stock indefinitely" at the publisher. If you would
like to purchase this item, we recommend that you occasionally check this
page to see if it's been reprinted.
Amazon had a surprising number of obsolete game programming books
for the TI, Coleco, C64 and others... take a look!
>There was also a sequel to this book, called "More Basic Computer Games",
>or something like that.
I'm positive that I had this book, and lamented that I could not
find the first! Can anyone confirm that the game 'Camel' is in More
Basic.. rather than 101 Basic?
In fact, 'Camel' was the first program I successfully entered into
the TI99/4A. Its short length and lack of string processing made it easy
to 'port' to the TI's BASIC dialect. IIRC, it was a lousy game, but quite
funny!
So now I'm looking for two out of print books... If anyone has a
copy of either that they don't want or have a line on one, please pass it
along. If I get a copy, look forward to C ports of these games! Thanks
again!
---Pete
bill_h
Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote:
[re: Ahl's books]
> (I have both and I'm for sure not giving them up!)
Another very early book, given away with the earliest Altairs, was
Bob Albrecht's "My Computer Likes Me*" "*when i speak in BASIC"
published in 1972 by DYMAX in Menlo Park. About 60 pages, intended
to help you use Basic through an ASR-33 Teletypewriter.
MY personal favorite, you'll have to pry it from my dead fingers,
is the 1967 Basic manual put out by BBN (Bolt, Beranek, and Newman)
for the Telecomp services......even includes a section on how to
read the holes in a paper tape.
When was Basic first published, anyway?
bob jackson
Johnny Billquist wrote:
>
> In <19961222041...@ladder01.news.aol.com> mhmc...@aol.com (MH McCabe) writes:
>
> >I think the book you are describing was put out by David Ahl in about
> >1981-1982 and had "Creative Computing" (a defunct but wonderful magazine)
> >in the title. Try searching a local college library, those books tended
> >to make the rounds with CS-101 students just learning to program in BASIC.
>
> It's "101 Basic Computer Games" by David Ahl.
>
> It was orignially published by Digital Press, I believe. From the look
> of it, it seems to have had some connection with "Creative Computing",
Ahl started Creative Computing as a hobby in 1974 when he went to
AT&T. He left AT&T in 1978 to devotefull time to the magazine.
> and I also believe David Ahl wrote articles for that magazine.
> (I also believed that David Ahl was employed by DEC at some time).
.
Ahl worked for DEC from 1970 to 1974. "AsEducation Product Line
Manager he formulated the concept of an educational computer system
consisting of hardware, software, and courseware (Edu-System) and
helped guide DEC into a leading position in the education market.
Copyright 1976 by Creative Computing.
>
> Some speculations, and some facts. Take it as it is.
>
.
The above info was from The Best of Creative Computing Vol. 1,
published 1977. I have it and vol 2. I'll make a list of the basic
games and post it. I also have a Best of Byte from the same era,
co-authored by Ahl.
--
Bob Jackson be...@NoSpamjuno.com rlj...@NoSpamsierratel.com
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
(remove NoSpam from address to reply
Robert Schuldenfrei
bill_h <bil...@azstarnet.com> wrote:
>When was Basic first published, anyway?
When I arrived at Dartmouth College (Amos Tuck School of Business
Administration) the Dartmouth Time Sharing System (DTSS) had been operational
for about six months. That would have been the Spring of 1965. BASIC was
written a bit before that. The first DTSS language was NOT BASIC, but "scalp",
a cut down version of Algol. A small footnote which most people of this NG
know, but very few others do - BASIC was a compiler, not an interpreter at that
time.
I have a lot more facts about early BASIC if anyone is interested.
.
Robert Schuldenfrei
S. I. Inc.
32 Ridley Road
Dedham, MA 02026
Voice: (617) 329-4828
FAX: (617) 329-1696
E-Mail: b...@s-i-inc.com
WWW: http://www.tiac.net/users/tangaroa/index.html
Jim Allenspach
With all this talk about the old David HG. Ahl BASIC book, I'm
wondering if anyone out there remembers a third title in this series, "Big
Computer Games". Published in 1984, it consisted mainly of 11 large
programs that required more than 16 K to run. (The cover says there's 12
games, but the 12th is a simple adventure game that was designed to augment
its play with snippets from a videosic player hooked up to, I believe, an
Apple ][ .)
The games themselves are:
* Cribbage ("Interesting high-scoring card game")
* Dukedon ("Challenging land management game")
* Eliza ("Your own psychotheraptist"; this game was also in
"More BASIC Computer Games")
* Lost & Forgotten Island ("Cooperative survival game for one to
threee players")
* Monster Combat ("Try to get treasures from the monsters")
* Mu-Torere ("Maori game from New Zealand")
* Presidential Campaign ("Simulation of the nine-month pre-election
period")
* Star Merchant ("Futuristic trading simulation")
* Streets of the City ("Manage the transportation system of a
small city")
* Survival ("Stranded on the moon with three hours of oxygen")
* Trucker ("Drive your rig from Los Angeles to New York")
And at the end of the book are some sections talking about how CC writer
David Lubar wrote up the videodisc adventure game mentioned before, and
some general thoughts on writing adventure games in BASIC.
The book is also noteworth because of the Preface written by Ahl.
Not only does it include a reference to the high technology available at
the time ("When I talk to kids at school, they can't imagine a computer
with less than 48K and another two to four times that on disk"), but it
also has a paragraph of predictions for computing in the following 5 to 10
years.
Ahl said that knowledge-based expert systems would become
important, with applications not only for business and science, but also
entertainment and games. He also thought that natural language processing
would "simplify the interaction with players", while graphics and sound
would "make the output easier to understand."
Well, he was right on that last point. When you get killed by one
of those brain-tentacle thingies in Duke Nukem 3D, you certainly understand
the output.
It's too bad that nobody is currently making books like these.
(It's also bad that some publisher is not keeping these previous books in
print.) Nowadays, if you see a title in the bookstore like "How to Program
3-D Games", it's more than likely accompanied by a CD-ROM that lets you
make your own DOOM levels. Perhaps someone out there who remembers game
programming books like Ahl's will revive the tradition, and start cranking
out creative books that challenge the reader to actually figure something
out. I'm positive there are plenty of creative young minds out there who
would love the chance.
Hmm. I wonder if anybody's made a Duke .MAP for "Hunt The
Wumpus"...
jma
--
Jim Allenspach (ji...@streams.com) || My opinions are not those of my
Streams Online Media Chicago, IL || employers, but those of Zontac
"We're ready to Web you!!" || the Almighty.
http://streams.com/ || HAIL ZONTAC!
Eric Fischer
Peter Barrett <pbar...@netmcr.com> wrote:
> It was about an inch thick, and contained 20-40 programs with a brief
> description, a few 'screen shots', a program listing, and what
> captured my imagination, black and white line drawings of robots that
> were related to the program.
Tim Shoppa <sho...@alph02.triumf.ca> wrote:
> My edition sounds a bit different: it was 8.5 in x 11 in, approximately
> 100 pages long (about 3/8 in thick), and had no screen shots.
...
> I'm willing to bet you just have a later edition.
I never saw the "Microcomputer Edition" in anything other than the 8.5"
x 11" format. But there was a version of the book (abridged, I think)
with ports specifically for the TRS-80, and that almost certainly would
have been CRT-oriented. Could that have been the edition described
above?
Eric
Eric Fischer
> Another very early book, given away with the earliest Altairs, was
> Bob Albrecht's "My Computer Likes Me*" "*when i speak in BASIC"
> published in 1972 by DYMAX in Menlo Park. About 60 pages, intended
> to help you use Basic through an ASR-33 Teletypewriter.
Yet another was _What To Do After You Press Return_, from the
People's Computer Company. At 11" x 17", it's definitely the
most unwieldy computer book format I've ever seen.
> When was Basic first published, anyway?
According to Thomas Kurtz in the ACM _History of Programming Languages_,
"The first BASIC program under time sharing was run on May 1, 1964,
around 4 a.m."
Eric
Herbert R Johnson
In article <59jrr0$g...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>,
sho...@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) wrote:
*>
*>Sounds like _101 Basic Computer Games_, by David Ahl. A quick search
*>through my library at works yields these matches to David Ahl:
*>
Speaking of Mr. Ahl, I had the pleasure of meeting him just last year
at the Trenton (NJ) Computerfest fleamarket. He was selling off the
last of his old books and magazines (to one of my S-100 colleagues).
He is now out of the old computer domain; I believe he's doing some
consulting work of some kind. In any case, he would not likely be
a direct resource for his classic BASIC books.
***** I do not want bulk email. Automated bulk mailings prohibited. ****
Herbert R. Johnson voice/FAX 609-771-1503 day/nite
hjoh...@pluto.njcc.com Ewing, NJ (near Princeton) USA
occasional amateur electronic astronomer
supporter of classic computers as "Dr. S-100"
and senior engineer at Astro Imaging Systems: old photons to new bits!
Jeffrey D Fox
>a cut down version of Algol. A small footnote which most people of this NG
>know, but very few others do - BASIC was a compiler, not an interpreter at that
>time.
>I have a lot more facts about early BASIC if anyone is interested.
I am! What were the first systems that had BASIC interpreters? I
remember the Apple II, and, of course, Commodores, had basic
interpreters. Any before that? How about the famous Microsoft BASIC
for the Altair?
Jeff
Bill Harnell
It's a shame that you hadn't asked about the book(s) a
couple of months ago. We gave a cottage to a neighbour and
they (and many other other old books from my Altair 8800
period <G>) were all stored in it. Chucked them out at the
end of October.
As I recall, there were two or three volumes, printed by
the People's Computer Company or some such named
organization.
--
Bill Harnell <bha...@adss.on.ca>
Peter Barrett <pbar...@netmcr.com> wrote in article
</pKvyk39r...@netmcr.com>...
> Howdy, group. Some friends and I were just
talking about
> Christmases past, and my recollection involved my 1st
computer, the
> TI99/4A. My parents weren't exactly rich but in 1983,
with my father's
> first paycheck at a new job, brought home a TI99/4A
personal computer for
> $99. With this, a battered tape drive and a bunch of
books, I began years
> of computer oriented time wasting.
>
> I remember one book in particular that I would
like to own again,
> if you ladies and gents could be bothered to check your
closets. Now bear
> with me, because I'm dredging this out of dusty and
probably faulty memory.
> The book was a volume of BASIC programs, mostly games,
collected from the
> pages of one of the enthusiast PC magazines of the time.
Computes or
> Personal Computing stands out in my mind. It was
softcover, with a cover
> color best described as pea-soup green. It was about an
inch thick, and
> contained 20-40 programs with a brief description, a few
'screen shots', a
> program listing, and what captured my imagination, black
and white line
> drawings of robots that were related to the program. I
recall a game
> called 'Camel', something about hitting a Schmoo with a
mudball catapult, a
> pinball game, a battleship like game, and an auto racing
Robert Schuldenfrei
>Jeff
There was a bunch of BASIC compilers and interpreters in the years before micros
took over the field. If we say 1978 is the dawn of the micro computer age, that
gives us 14 years of history and folk lore. GE was probably first out of the
blocks, mainly because DTSS was done on GE gear. The early stuff was the GE-265
system and the later versions were on the GE-635. There was a few attempts on
the GE-645, but the glory and the folly of the GE-645 belong to Multics, that in
an interesting way lead to UNIX.
GE BASIC was actually the Dartmouth BASIC, the compiler. It was sold by GE
Timesharing out of Bethesda, MD. The group was headed by Dr. George Feaney (not
sure of the spelling of his last name). A number of competitive systems were
out with the GE gear. One of note that I used was Pillsbury Call-A-Computer.
That's right folks, the doughboy does BASIC!
DEC was out early on with BASIC, but I do not know if it was compiled or
interpreted. By 1968 Burroughs had a version on the B-5500. I used this beast,
but Algol worked so much better as the B-5500 was designed to use Algol as its
assembly language. CDC had an interpreter on its 3300/3500/3700 machines which
it tried to pawn off as "business systems". Interesting footnote: I bought
time on a 3300 from a company called ITS out of Minneapolis. My salesman was
John Rollwagen, later to become president of CDC. There was a lot of General
Mills money in ITS. They had a cute naming convention for their languages, ITS
BASIC, ITS FORTRAN. I don't know what it is about these breakfast foods
companies, but I thought ITS TOO CUTE.
CDC machines ran a number of time sharing systems including Multicomp out of
Wellesley Hills, MA. It was the 3300 again. Why did BASIC take off the way it
did? The compiler was small. That is why it was a natural for micros at first.
It was also in the public domain. That is the price was right.
Well, I can, blather on like this for a bit, but I am heading out on vacation
through early January, so if anyone is interested, I will pick it up then.
There are a number of ex-DTSS staff members who read this NG. Please correct
any of my "facts".
Tim Shoppa
>>if you ladies and gents could be bothered to check your closets. Now bear
>>with me, because I'm dredging this out of dusty and probably faulty memory.
>>The book was a volume of BASIC programs, mostly games, collected from the
>>pages of one of the enthusiast PC magazines of the time. Computes or
>>Personal Computing stands out in my mind. It was softcover, with a cover
>>color best described as pea-soup green.
>>called 'Camel', something about hitting a Schmoo with a mudball catapult, a
>>pinball game, a battleship like game, and an auto racing game.
It certainly sounds like the style of games in _101 Basic Computer
Games_ or its sequel.
I've found the half-dozen 8" CP/M floppies that I own which have
"Creative Computing" labels on them.
There's English and French
versions of _Adventure_, and 4 more floppies labeled "Basic
Computer Games" and "More Basic Computer Games".
Volume #1 of the 4 "Basic Computer Games" floppies has an insert
saying the following:
SOFTWARE DISK
BASIC GAMES DISK #1 VERSION 1.1
This floppy disk contains the first 51 programs
from the book _Basic Comnputer Games: Micro-
Computer Edition_,* in Microsoft BASIC. We
recommend you get a copy of the book for
documentation, instructions, and background on
the games.
Most of these programs are directly executable
under Microsft Disk BASIC running in a 32K
CP/M system (which means BASIC must have at
least 10K of free memory). The only game which
needs more memory is Super Star Trek which
needs a 40K CP/M system.
In this version of the software, the games are
menu-driven. To play then, LOAD and RUN the
program named "MENU.BAS" on the disk. Other
refinements have been added to the games on this
disk - TYPE the file READ.ME for more details.
*_Basic Computer Games: Microcomputer Edition_
is available for $8.50 postpaid from Computing Press.
The insert with floppy #2 indicates that it's the second half
of _Basic Computer Games_. Floppies #3 and #4 are the contents
of _More Basic Computer Games_.
I fire up the trusty old IMSAI, list the contents, and play a
game of good 'ol WUMPUS:
CompuPro 64K CP/M 2.2Q (85/88)
Copyright (c) 1985 VIASYN Corporation
8" DISK1A as A: B: C: D:
4 M-Drive/H as drive M:
A>stat b:*.*
Recs Bytes Ext Acc
0 0k 1 R/W B:-GAMES.600
15 2k 1 R/W B:ACEYDUCY.BAS
23 3k 1 R/W B:AMAZING.BAS
25 4k 1 R/W B:AMAZINGP.BAS
16 2k 1 R/W B:ANIMAL.BAS
35 5k 1 R/W B:AWARI.BAS
16 2k 1 R/W B:BAGELS.BAS
22 3k 1 R/W B:BANNER.BAS
34 5k 1 R/W B:BASKETBL.BAS
16 2k 1 R/W B:BATNUM.BAS
55 7k 1 R/W B:BATTLE.BAS
59 8k 1 R/W B:BLACKJCK.BAS
19 3k 1 R/W B:BOMBARD.BAS
21 3k 1 R/W B:BOMBSAWY.BAS
10 2k 1 R/W B:BOUNCE.BAS
17 3k 1 R/W B:BOWLING.BAS
23 3k 1 R/W B:BOXING.BAS
40 5k 1 R/W B:BUG.BAS
35 5k 1 R/W B:BULLFGHT.BAS
12 2k 1 R/W B:BULLSEYE.BAS
11 2k 1 R/W B:BUNNY.BAS
10 2k 1 R/W B:BUZZWORD.BAS
11 2k 1 R/W B:CALENDAR.BAS
10 2k 1 R/W B:CHANGE.BAS
21 3k 1 R/W B:CHECKERS.BAS
9 2k 1 R/W B:CHEMIST.BAS
13 2k 1 R/W B:CHIEF.BAS
19 3k 1 R/W B:CHOMP.BAS
61 8k 1 R/W B:CIVILWAR.BAS
25 4k 1 R/W B:COMBAT.BAS
17 3k 1 R/W B:CRAPS.BAS
27 4k 1 R/W B:CUBE.BAS
10 2k 1 R/W B:DEPTHCHG.BAS
5 1k 1 R/W B:DIAMOND.BAS
7 1k 1 R/W B:DICE.BAS
17 3k 1 R/W B:DIGITS.BAS
16 2k 1 R/W B:EVENWIN1.BAS
22 3k 1 R/W B:EVENWIN2.BAS
14 2k 1 R/W B:FLIPFLOP.BAS
47 6k 1 R/W B:FOOTBAL1.BAS
47 6k 1 R/W B:FOOTBAL2.BAS
42 6k 1 R/W B:FURTRADR.BAS
41 6k 1 R/W B:GOLF.BAS
14 2k 1 R/W B:GOMOKO.BAS
9 2k 1 R/W B:GUESS.BAS
13 2k 1 R/W B:GUNNER.BAS
34 5k 1 R/W B:HAMURABI.BAS
25 4k 1 R/W B:HANGMAN.BAS
24 3k 1 R/W B:HELLO.BAS
39 5k 1 R/W B:HEXAPAWN.BAS
26 4k 1 R/W B:HI-Q.BAS
8 1k 1 R/W B:HILO.BAS
58 8k 1 R/W B:HOCKEY.BAS
8 1k 1 R/W B:MENU.BAS
18 3k 1 R/W B:READ.ME
Bytes Remaining On B: 58k
A>^C
A>stat b:*.*
Recs Bytes Ext Acc
0 0k 1 R/W B:-GAMES.601
13 2k 1 R/W B:23-MATCH.BAS
4 1k 1 R/W B:3DPLOT.BAS
23 3k 1 R/W B:HORSRACE.BAS
10 2k 1 R/W B:HURKLE.BAS
7 1k 1 R/W B:KINEMA.BAS
65 9k 1 R/W B:KING.BAS
47 6k 1 R/W B:LEM.BAS
7 1k 1 R/W B:LETTER.BAS
14 2k 1 R/W B:LIFE.BAS
16 2k 1 R/W B:LIFE2.BAS
14 2k 1 R/W B:LITQUIZ.BAS
11 2k 1 R/W B:LOVE.BAS
11 2k 1 R/W B:LOVE-P.BAS
17 3k 1 R/W B:LUNAR.BAS
36 5k 1 R/W B:MADLIB.BAS
36 5k 1 R/W B:MASTRMND.BAS
11 2k 1 R/W B:MATHDICE.BAS
8 1k 1 R/W B:MENU.BAS
13 2k 1 R/W B:MUGWUMP.BAS
8 1k 1 R/W B:NAME.BAS
8 1k 1 R/W B:NICOMA.BAS
26 4k 1 R/W B:NIM.BAS
9 2k 1 R/W B:NUMBER.BAS
17 3k 1 R/W B:ONECHECK.BAS
28 4k 1 R/W B:ORBIT.BAS
20 3k 1 R/W B:PIZZA.BAS
12 2k 1 R/W B:POETRY.BAS
53 7k 1 R/W B:POKER.BAS
45 6k 1 R/W B:QUBIC.BAS
28 4k 1 R/W B:QUEEN.BAS
18 3k 1 R/W B:READ.ME
14 2k 1 R/W B:REVERSE.BAS
21 3k 1 R/W B:ROCKET.BAS
9 2k 1 R/W B:ROCKSP.BAS
44 6k 1 R/W B:ROULETTE.BAS
6 1k 1 R/W B:RUSROU.BAS
55 7k 1 R/W B:SALVO.BAS
4 1k 1 R/W B:SINEWAVE.BAS
32 4k 1 R/W B:SLALOM.BAS
17 3k 1 R/W B:SLOTS.BAS
39 5k 1 R/W B:SPLAT.BAS
12 2k 1 R/W B:STARS.BAS
119 15k 1 R/W B:STARTREK.BAS
56 7k 1 R/W B:STOCK.BAS
14 2k 1 R/W B:SYNONYM.BAS
19 3k 1 R/W B:TARGET.BAS
9 2k 1 R/W B:TICTAC1.BAS
18 3k 1 R/W B:TICTAC2.BAS
29 4k 1 R/W B:TOWERS.BAS
6 1k 1 R/W B:TRAIN.BAS
11 2k 1 R/W B:TRAP.BAS
46 6k 1 R/W B:TREKINST.BAS
15 2k 1 R/W B:WAR.BAS
27 4k 1 R/W B:WEEKDAY.BAS
14 2k 1 R/W B:WORD.BAS
Bytes Remaining On B: 60k
A>^C
A>stat b:*.*
Recs Bytes Ext Acc
23 3k 1 R/W B:ARTILRY3.BAS
26 4k 1 R/W B:BACRAT.BAS
24 3k 1 R/W B:BIBLQUIZ.BAS
20 3k 1 R/W B:BIG6.BAS
7 1k 1 R/W B:BINARY.BAS
12 2k 1 R/W B:BLACKBOX.BAS
35 5k 1 R/W B:BOBSTONE.BAS
29 4k 1 R/W B:BOCCE.BAS
19 3k 1 R/W B:BOGAII.BAS
59 8k 1 R/W B:BOMBRUN.BAS
47 6k 1 R/W B:BRIDGEIT.BAS
35 5k 1 R/W B:CAMEL.BAS
25 4k 1 R/W B:CHASE.BAS
10 2k 1 R/W B:CHUCK.BAS
33 5k 1 R/W B:CLSENCTR.BAS
15 2k 1 R/W B:COLUMN.BAS
16 2k 1 R/W B:CONCENTR.BAS
25 4k 1 R/W B:CONDOT.BAS
50 7k 1 R/W B:CONVOY.BAS
16 2k 1 R/W B:CORRAL.BAS
10 2k 1 R/W B:COUNTDWN.BAS
14 2k 1 R/W B:CUP.BAS
59 8k 1 R/W B:DEALERS.BAS
48 6k 1 R/W B:DEEPSPCE.BAS
14 2k 1 R/W B:DEFUSE.BAS
14 2k 1 R/W B:DOCTORZ.BAS
47 6k 1 R/W B:DODGEM.BAS
10 2k 1 R/W B:DOORS.BAS
25 4k 1 R/W B:DRAGRACE.BAS
53 7k 1 R/W B:ELIZA.BAS
31 4k 1 R/W B:FATHER.BAS
17 3k 1 R/W B:FLIP.BAS
33 5k 1 R/W B:GEOWAR.BAS
54 7k 1 R/W B:GRANPRIX.BAS
32 4k 1 R/W B:GUESS-IT.BAS
12 2k 1 R/W B:ICBM.BAS
18 3k 1 R/W B:INKBLOT.BAS
13 2k 1 R/W B:JMPBALLS.BAS
35 5k 1 R/W B:JOUST.BAS
26 4k 1 R/W B:KENO.BAS
59 8k 1 R/W B:L-GAME.BAS
38 5k 1 R/W B:LEWIS.BAS
41 6k 1 R/W B:LIFEXPCT.BAS
9 2k 1 R/W B:LISAJOUS.BAS
16 2k 1 R/W B:MAGICSQR.BAS
29 4k 1 R/W B:MANEUVRS.BAS
17 3k 1 R/W B:MATPUZZL.BAS
45 6k 1 R/W B:MAZE.BAS
15 2k 1 R/W B:MCYCLJMP.BAS
9 2k 1 R/W B:MENU.BAS
18 3k 1 R/W B:MERABBIT.BAS
59 8k 1 R/W B:MILLION.BAS
59 8k 1 R/W B:MINOTAUR.BAS
13 2k 1 R/W B:MMIND.BAS
17 3k 1 R/W B:MSTRBGLS.BAS
Bytes Remaining On B: 60k
A>^C
A>stat b:*.*
Recs Bytes Ext Acc
20 3k 1 R/W B:4INAROW.BAS
7 1k 1 R/W B:MENU.BAS
51 7k 1 R/W B:NOMAD.BAS
21 3k 1 R/W B:NOT-ONE.BAS
29 4k 1 R/W B:OBSTACLE.BAS
43 6k 1 R/W B:OCTRIX.BAS
22 3k 1 R/W B:PASART.BAS
74 10k 1 R/W B:PASART2.BAS
13 2k 1 R/W B:PATTERNS.BAS
63 8k 1 R/W B:PINBALL.BAS
13 2k 1 R/W B:RBBTCHS.BAS
28 4k 1 R/W B:ROADRACE.BAS
20 3k 1 R/W B:ROTATE.BAS
20 3k 1 R/W B:SAFE.BAS
25 4k 1 R/W B:SCALES.BAS
18 3k 1 R/W B:SCHMOO.BAS
131 17k 2 R/W B:SEABAT.BAS
43 6k 1 R/W B:SEAWAR.BAS
35 5k 1 R/W B:SHOOT.BAS
22 3k 1 R/W B:SMASH.BAS
21 3k 1 R/W B:STRIKE9.BAS
29 4k 1 R/W B:TENNIS.BAS
9 2k 1 R/W B:TTAPE.BAS
18 3k 1 R/W B:TVPLOT.BAS
20 3k 1 R/W B:TWO-TEN.BAS
43 6k 1 R/W B:TWONKY.BAS
42 6k 1 R/W B:UFO.BAS
12 2k 1 R/W B:UNDROVER.BAS
52 7k 1 R/W B:USPOP.BAS
25 4k 1 R/W B:VANGAM.BAS
30 4k 1 R/W B:WARFISH.BAS
33 5k 1 R/W B:WSPUZZLE.BAS
42 6k 1 R/W B:WUMPUS.BAS
64 8k 1 R/W B:WUMPUS2.BAS
45 6k 1 R/W B:YAHTZEE.BAS
Bytes Remaining On B: 60k
A>m:mbasic
BASIC-80 Rev. 5.2
[CP/M Version]
Copyright 1977, 78, 79, 80 (C) by Microsoft
Created: 14-Jul-80
30278 Bytes free
Ok
LOAD "B:WUMPUS"
Ok
RUN
WUMPUS
CREATIVE COMPUTING MORRISTOWN, NEW JERSEY
INSTRUCTIONS? YES
WELCOME TO 'HUNT THE WUMPUS'
THE WUMPUS LIVES IN A CAVE OF 20 ROOMS. EACH ROOM
HAS 3 TUNNELS LEADING TO OTHER ROOMS. (LOOK AT A
DODECAHEDRON TO SEE HOW THIS WORKS - IF YOU DON'T KNOW
WHAT A DODECHADRON IS, ASK SOMEONE)
HAZARDS:
BOTTOMLESS PITS - TWO ROOMS HAVE BOTTOMLESS PITS IN THEM
IF YOU GO THERE, YOU FALL INTO THE PIT (& LOSE!)
SUPERBATS - TWO OTHER ROOMS HAVE SUPER BATS. IF YOU
GO THERE, A BAT GRABS YOU AND TAKES YOU TO SOME OTHER
ROOM AT RANDOM. (WHICH MIGHT BE TROUBLESOME)
WUMPUS:
THE WUMPUS IS NOT BOTHERED BY THE HAZARDS (HE HAS SUCKER
FEET AND IS TOO BIG FOR A BAT TO LIFT). USUALLY
HE IS ASLEEP. TWO THINGS THAT WAKE HIM UP: YOUR ENTERING
HIS ROOM OR YOUR SHOOTING AN ARROW.
IF THE WUMPUS WAKES, HE MOVES (P=.75) ONE ROOM
OR STAYS STILL (P=.25). AFTER THAT, IF HE IS WHERE YOU
ARE, HE EATS YOU UP (& YOU LOSE!)
ENTER 'RETURN' TO CONTINUE.
YOU:
EACH TURN YOU MAY MOVE OR SHOOT A CROOKED ARROW
MOVING: YOU CAN GO ONE ROOM (THRU ONE TUNNEL)
ARROWS: YOU HAVE 5 ARROWS. YOU LOSE WHEN YOU RUN OUTE ARROW TO GO TO.
IF THE ARROW CAN'T GO THAT WAY (I.E., NO TUNNEL) IT MOVES
AT RANDOM TO THE NEXT ROOM.
IF THE ARROW HITS THE WUMPUS, YOU WIN.
IF THE ARROW HITS YOU, YOU LOSE.
WARNINGS:
WHEN YOU ARE ONE ROOM AWAY FROM WUMPUS OR HAZARD,
THE COMPUTER SAYS:
WUMPUS- 'I SMELL A WUMPUS'
BAT - 'BATS NEARBY'
PIT - 'I FEEL A DRAFT'
YOU ARE IN ROOM 10
TUNNELS LEAD TO 2 9 11
SHOOT OR MOVE (S-M)? M
WHERE TO? 2
BATS NEARBY!
YOU ARE IN ROOM 2
TUNNELS LEAD TO 1 3 10
SHOOT OR MOVE (S-M)? M
WHERE TO? 1
ZAP--SUPER BAT SNATCH! ELSEWHEREVILLE FOR YOU!
YYYIIIIEEEE . . . FELL IN PIT
HA HA HA - YOU LOSE!
SAME SET-UP (Y-N) OR 'Q' TO QUIT
? Y
HUNT THE WUMPUS
YOU ARE IN ROOM 10
TUNNELS LEAD TO 2 9 11
SHOOT OR MOVE (S-M)? M
WHERE TO? 9
I SMELL A WUMPUS!
YOU ARE IN ROOM 9
TUNNELS LEAD TO 8 10 18
SHOOT OR MOVE (S-M)? S
NO. OF ROOMS(1-5)? 2
ROOM #? 8
ROOM #? 18
AHA! YOU GOT THE WUMPUS!
HEE HEE HEE - THE WUMPUS'LL GETCHA NEXT TIME!!
SAME SET-UP (Y-N) OR 'Q' TO QUIT
? Q
Tim Shoppa, TRIUMF theory group | Internet: sho...@triumf.ca
TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility | Voice: 604-222-1047 loc 6446
4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS | FAX: 604-222-1074
University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA V6T 2A3
Frank McConnell
Robert Schuldenfrei <sail...@tiac.net> wrote:
>When I arrived at Dartmouth College (Amos Tuck School of Business
>Administration) the Dartmouth Time Sharing System (DTSS) had been
>operational for about six months. That would have been the Spring of
>1965. BASIC was written a bit before that. The first DTSS language
>footnote which most people of this NG know, but very few others do -
>BASIC was a compiler, not an interpreter at that time.
I've read that before, but don't have a good idea what it was really
like to use.
BASIC on the HP 2000 was pretty much a straightforward interpreter
from the user's perspective. You typed statements in (prefixed with
line numbers) and the environment just put them in your program
workspace. Then you typed something not prefixed with a line number,
and it was taken as a command. "RUN" for example.
There was a sort of "special save" called a CSAVE within the 2000's
BASIC. I remember this doing part of the checking that was normally
done on a program when it was first RUN: making sure that the targets
of GOTOs and GOSUBs existed, making sure that FORs have matching
NEXTs, that sort of thing. CSAVEing a program that would be used
frequently made it start up a little faster, and (much) later I found
out (and was fairly recently reminded) that CSAVEing a program was a
prerequisite for SANCTIFYing it, an operation that I think moved the
program into a special area on disk or drum from which it could be
loaded more quickly than usual.
I have also read tales of people being able to exploit various holes
in the 2000's timeshared BASIC OS from within CSAVEd programs.
BASIC on the HP 3000 came in two flavors: an interpreter hosted under
MPE (which once you got into it was a somewhat richer interpretive
environment than the 2000), and a compiler that could be used to
take programs developed within the interactive environment and produce
executable programs that could be run directly from the MPE command
interpreter.
Similarly to the 2000, you had to CSAVE a 3000 BASIC program in the
interpreter before asking the compiler to compile it.
>I have a lot more facts about early BASIC if anyone is interested.
Quite!
-Frank McConnell
<f...@aphasia.us.com> for now
<f...@rahul.net> for a while longer
DoN. Nichols
In article <32BE0E...@goldrush.com>,
Larry Anderson & Diane Hare <foxn...@goldrush.com> wrote:
>Actually the book you are ferring to I think is the "More BASIC
>Computer Games" by David Ahl. The Original BASIC Computer Games had a
Hmm ... *my* copy of "101 Basic Comptuer Games" has a *blue* cover.
Were there *three* versions?
Merry Xmas/season/??
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Donald Nichols (DoN.)
Voice Days: (703) 704-2280 | Eves: (703) 938-4564
My Concertina web page: | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Andrew & Robin Gutterman
>bill_h <bil...@azstarnet.com> wrote:
>
>
>>When was Basic first published, anyway?
>
>When I arrived at Dartmouth College (Amos Tuck School of Business
>Administration) the Dartmouth Time Sharing System (DTSS) had been operational
>for about six months. That would have been the Spring of 1965. BASIC was
>written a bit before that. The first DTSS language was NOT BASIC, but "scalp",
>a cut down version of Algol. A small footnote which most people of this NG
>know, but very few others do - BASIC was a compiler, not an interpreter at that
>time.
>
The first book on BASIC was written by: Kemeny, John & J. Kurtz;
BASIC: A MANUAL FOR BASIC; Dartmouth College; 1965; 68 pages;
ORIGINAL PAPER BOARDS WITH SPIRAL PLASTIC BINDING; 4to
If anyone has one I would be interested in buying it.
Thank you,
Andrew Gutterman
Staunton Book Review
9 E. Beverley St.
Staunton, VA 24401
540 886-6913
10 AM - 5 PM Mon-Sat
ALWAYS WANTED: Books, journals, manuals or
anything else on COMPUTERS published before
1960. Includes advertising, periodicals or
anything else you can think of. Even items
such as the "Toy" computers like GENIAC,
MINIVAC, BRAINIAC etc. Please Quote!
MIke
DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
> In article <32BE0E...@goldrush.com>,
> Larry Anderson & Diane Hare <foxn...@goldrush.com> wrote:
> >Actually the book you are ferring to I think is the "More BASIC
> >Computer Games" by David Ahl. The Original BASIC Computer Games had a
> >yellow cover. :) (I have both and I'm for sure not giving them up!)
>
> Hmm ... *my* copy of "101 Basic Comptuer Games" has a *blue* cover.
> Were there *three* versions?
>
101 Basic computer games was published in 2 editions. The first edition (which
I believe is the one you are holding) was published, I believe, in 1973 or 1974.
The second edition (published in 1976 or 1977) contained most of the same
programs, but, the printing was cleaned up for legibility. This edition was
called the microcomputer edition, as noted on the front of its yellow cover.
Edward Rice
In article <32BE30...@azstarnet.com>,
bill_h <bil...@azstarnet.com> wrote:
> When was Basic first published, anyway?
1964, I believe. I have a Third Edition of the original Kemeny & Kurtz
Basic manual (hand-collated and assembled), and it's dated 1 January 1966,
but doesn't have a publication history indicated.
Edward Rice
In article <59nhtl$e...@news-central.tiac.net>,
sail...@tiac.net (Robert Schuldenfrei) wrote:
> There was a bunch of BASIC compilers and interpreters in the years
before micros
> took over the field. If we say 1978 is the dawn of the micro computer
age, that
> gives us 14 years of history and folk lore. GE was probably first out
of the
> blocks, mainly because DTSS was done on GE gear. The early stuff was
the GE-265
> system and the later versions were on the GE-635. There was a few
attempts on
> the GE-645, but the glory and the folly of the GE-645 belong to Multics,
that in
> an interesting way lead to UNIX.
I'm not aware of any BASIC time-sharing implementation, even failed ones,
for the non-Multics GE-645. Got any more details on that? Multics did run
an encapsulation (I believe) of Dartmouth Time Sharing System (DTSS), and
later on (mid-to-late '70's) also had a subsystem called FAST that ran a
traditional BASIC subsystem in native-Multics mode.
> GE BASIC was actually the Dartmouth BASIC, the compiler. It was sold by
GE
> Timesharing out of Bethesda, MD. The group was headed by Dr. George
Feaney (not
> sure of the spelling of his last name). A number of competitive systems
were
> out with the GE gear. One of note that I used was Pillsbury
Call-A-Computer.
> That's right folks, the doughboy does BASIC!
I remember Call-A-Computer. Also in Bethesda, at about the same time, was
CEIR, which I think was swallowed up by CDC a few years later. The CEIR
building, a landmark on River Road, was still there last time I thought to
look, but may be gone by now. I was told at the time that CAC had,
basically, a line of computers, and when they got another dozen or two
dozen customers signed up, they'd just wheel up another computer and put it
at the end of the line. When you called in, IIRC, your (very modest) disk
storage was located in a central server-like facility, farmed out to the
scaleable-by-multiplication machine that was going to handle your terminal
session, and then returned to the file server when you logged off.
> DEC was out early on with BASIC, but I do not know if it was compiled or
> interpreted. By 1968 Burroughs had a version on the B-5500. I used
this beast,
> but Algol worked so much better as the B-5500 was designed to use Algol
as its
> assembly language.
The B-5500 didn't use ALGOL as its assembly language. (I think Rex Rice's
group at Iowa, with the SYMBOL machine, were the first to create a
direct-execution-of-HLL machine, and I think they presented their work in
Atlantic City in 1969. There were, by then, one or two semi-underground
almost-direct-execution-of-APL machines that had been gen'd up on
360/44's.) However, the stack structure of the B-5500 (and successor
machines) was carefully designed to provide highly efficient execution of
ALGOL programs after they were compiled, and it did that job admirably
well.
> CDC machines ran a number of time sharing systems including Multicomp
out of
> Wellesley Hills, MA. It was the 3300 again. Why did BASIC take off the
way it
> did? The compiler was small. That is why it was a natural for micros
at first.
> It was also in the public domain. That is the price was right.
Honeywell also offered a few turn-key time-sharing systems, including the
1648 TSS -- a neat lash-up of two 516's and a 316, or vice versa. As I
recall, one of the processors handled keystrokes and I/O to the terminal;
one did user program execution during the period that a RUN was happening;
and one did either disk I/O or executive functions or both. It was a
really crisp system to use, and relatively inexpensive. By the late
1960's, though, the standard GE TSS machine was a 635, and that (and
successor machines) became the standard for Honeywell, which acquired the
GE general purpose computer division in 1970 or 1971. By that time, it was
relatively cheap to buy a system to do batch AND timesharing and to run
that within even modest-sized organizations, and the golden era of the
timesharing utility companies was over. (It just took GEISCO another
couple of decades to find out it was dead.)
larry kollar
Jim Allenspach writes:
>Nowadays, if you see a title in the bookstore like "How to Program
>3-D Games", it's more than likely accompanied by a CD-ROM that lets you
>make your own DOOM levels.
Actually, I've seen a "Mac Game Programming Toolkit" book that
includes CodeWarrior (C compiler, somehow crippled to only be useful
for the project at hand) and source code for Glypha, a clone of the
arcade game Joust. It's not a perfect substitute for the slap-the-
code-in-and-RUN-it convenience of BASIC, but it's probably more
relevant in the long run.
--
Larry Kollar, Dawsonville GA | *** Hatred is murder *** (1 Jn 3:15)
leko...@nyx.net | http://www.nyx.net/~lekollar/
"So don't try to turn my head away
Flirtin' with disaster every day"
Marco S Hyman
ehr...@his.com (Edward Rice) writes:
> The B-5500 didn't use ALGOL as its assembly language. (I think Rex Rice's
Hmmm. I don't know the 5500 (was playing with the medium systems when
that machine was active), but its younger brothers/sisters did not have
an available assembler. Assembly type mnemonics were defined, but the only
place I recalled them used was as labels for code generation table lookups
within the various compilers. The only way you could generate code was via
one of the supported compilers, with most system type functions save the
MCP written in DC-ALGOL. (It's been a long time, so I could certainly be
wrong here.)
The 5000/6000/7000 MCPs were migrated from an ALGOL like language named
ESPOL to an ALGOL like language called NEWP in the early 80s. I have a
document named "NEWP SUMMARY FOR MARK 33" dated April 82. Anyone know
what NEWP stood for?
The last Burroughs large system I played with was the 6900 family in the
early 80s. Went from there to CP/M on a Z80. From CANDE to WordStar!
// marc
The Bakers
> In article <59nhtl$e...@news-central.tiac.net>,
> sail...@tiac.net (Robert Schuldenfrei) wrote:
>
> > There was a bunch of BASIC compilers and interpreters in the years
> before micros
> > took over the field. If we say 1978 is the dawn of the micro computer
> age, that
> > gives us 14 years of history and folk lore. GE was probably first out
> of the
> > blocks, mainly because DTSS was done on GE gear. The early stuff was
> the GE-265
> > system and the later versions were on the GE-635. There was a few
> attempts on
> > the GE-645, but the glory and the folly of the GE-645 belong to Multics,
> that in
> > an interesting way lead to UNIX.
>
Wasn't there a GE 225 system which was used for the early BASIC
timesharing ?
Would also enjoy seeing some folklore discussion on the Datanet
front-end boxes.
M. Baker
mba...@monmouth.com
Sam Weiner
In article <32C47E...@monmouth.com>,
The Bakers <mba...@monmouth.com> wrote:
>> In article <59nhtl$e...@news-central.tiac.net>,
>> sail...@tiac.net (Robert Schuldenfrei) wrote:
>>
>> > There was a bunch of BASIC compilers and interpreters in the years
>> before micros
>> > took over the field. If we say 1978 is the dawn of the micro computer
>> age, that
>> > gives us 14 years of history and folk lore. GE was probably first out
>> of the
>> > blocks, mainly because DTSS was done on GE gear. The early stuff was
>> the GE-265
>> > system and the later versions were on the GE-635. There was a few
>> attempts on
>> > the GE-645, but the glory and the folly of the GE-645 belong to Multics,
>> that in
>> > an interesting way lead to UNIX.
>>
>
>Wasn't there a GE 225 system which was used for the early BASIC
>timesharing ?
The GE 225 was a slower version of the GE 235. Same instruction set,
etc. The absolutely first "Dartmouth" system was indeed a 225, the
235 came later.
>Would also enjoy seeing some folklore discussion on the Datanet
>front-end boxes.
And of course how we get from GE 225 (or GE 235) to GE 255 or GE 265
is to stick a Datanet-30 in front of them to handle the comm lines,
editing, and command decoding (not sure about the last, it's been a
few years.)
The Datanet-30 (or at least later models in the line - 335 or 355??)
were also used as disk controllers for GE 400 and 600 computers. I think
the Datanets were 18 bit machines while the 2xx were 24 bits, the 4xx was
48 bits, and the 6xx was 36 bits like all good computers.
The GE (then Honeywell) 4xxs were also used for timesharing by at
least one company, Rapidata, from the late 60's through the early
80's. Same old READY interface but totally different otherwise. They
originally had Datanets for front ends but changed to GTE Tempo and
eventually PDP-11s.
The Datanet-30 was also used to run a timesharing system based on the
TRAC language (see thread about Calvin Mooers (Mooers is mispelt in
the thread title.) I didn't acutally use a D30 running TRAC though I
did use TRAC on BBN's PDP-1.
Sam
Jim Allenspach
sho...@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) writes:
>In article <5a6mdn$q...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>,
>Scott Norwood <snor...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Does anyone else out there know of where I can find a BASIC version of
>>ELIZA? I've got a later C version, but I'd love to find the original...
>... the version from Ahl's book (_More BASIC Computer Games,
>Microcomputer Edition_) has been e-mailed to Scott.
And just in case anyone else is looking for it, there's a few
versions of Eliza (including, yes, a BASIC version that is the same as the
Ahl version, except the line numbers seem to be different) at the AI Attic
over at ftp://ftp.cc.utexas.edu/pub/AI_ATTIC/ . Look in the Programs/Classic
directory for not only Eliza, but versions of Doctor, Shrdlu, Adventure,
and even Zork. Unfortunately, most of the stuff seems to be packed in HQX
format, but there's the occasional full listing of a program (such as
Eliza).
And for those of you who prefer something a little more up-to-date,
someone's written an Eliza in Java. It's at
http://philly.cyberloft.com/bgoerlic/eliza.htm . (I would plug my own copy
of Eliza in Javascript here, but I seem to have temporarily mislaid it. Oh
well, I'm sure someone out there has also already done something like that.
Now what would REALLY be cool, would be for someone to work out
Java/Javascript versions of ALL the games in the books. Granted, some of
the "locate the point on the grid" games would be kinda boring, but it
would really be fun to see that Sea Battle game running...)
jma
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -s-- - Jim Allenspach (ji...@mcs.com)
foreach(split(/(\D)/,J117115116A110111116104101114P101114108H097099107101114)
){if($#_+1){print pop(@_),pack('C*',split(/(...)/,$_.'032'));}else{push(@_,$_
)if(length);}}print"\n";
Tim Shoppa
>>* Eliza ("Your own psychotheraptist"; this game was also in
>> "More BASIC Computer Games")
>
>ELIZA? I've got a later C version, but I'd love to find the original...
If I'm not mistaken, the "original" is in LISP.
In any event, the version from Ahl's book (_More BASIC Computer Games,
Microcomputer Edition_) has been e-mailed to Scott.
Tim.
Scott Norwood
In article <5a72bu$9...@Venus.mcs.net>, Jim Allenspach <ji...@mcs.com> wrote:
>
> And just in case anyone else is looking for it, there's a few
>versions of Eliza (including, yes, a BASIC version that is the same as the
>Ahl version, except the line numbers seem to be different) at the AI Attic
>over at ftp://ftp.cc.utexas.edu/pub/AI_ATTIC/ . Look in the Programs/Classic
>directory for not only Eliza, but versions of Doctor, Shrdlu, Adventure,
>and even Zork. Unfortunately, most of the stuff seems to be packed in HQX
>format, but there's the occasional full listing of a program (such as
>Eliza).
This, too, is just what I'm looking for. Anyone know the best (fastest/
smallest) UNIX utilities for unpacking HQX files? (my, how I wish
those Mac folks would use ZIP or tar...)
Scott Norwood
In article <59m35f$5...@Venus.mcs.net>, Jim Allenspach <ji...@streams.com> wrote:
>* Eliza ("Your own psychotheraptist"; this game was also in
> "More BASIC Computer Games")
Does anyone else out there know of where I can find a BASIC version of
ELIZA? I've got a later C version, but I'd love to find the original...
I've wasted hours in this pursuit, with little success.
Thanks.
Edward Rice
In article <E35Jo...@world.std.com>,
wei...@world.std.com (Sam Weiner) wrote:
> The GE (then Honeywell) 4xxs were also used for timesharing by at
> least one company, Rapidata, from the late 60's through the early
> 80's. Same old READY interface but totally different otherwise. They
> originally had Datanets for front ends but changed to GTE Tempo and
> eventually PDP-11s.
The G-400 machines were very popular with banks, although GE marketing
proved the key to vast success in that area for Burroughs. With 48-bit
words, they had enough bits to represent very large amounts of money in
pennies (as bankers are wont to do, to avoid rounding loss). 2**35 = 3e10,
so in pennies a 36-bit machine could only store eight digits of dollars.
At 48 bits (also signed), the G-435 could store twelve digits of dollars,
which was acceptable for banking systems. (Obviously 32 bits wasn't useful
for anything at all.)
Edward Rice
In article <x7engcs...@dumbcat.codewright.com>,
Marco S Hyman <ma...@dumbcat.codewright.com> wrote:
> ehr...@his.com (Edward Rice) writes:
>
> > The B-5500 didn't use ALGOL as its assembly language. (I think Rex
Rice's
>
> Hmmm. I don't know the 5500 (was playing with the medium systems when
> that machine was active), but its younger brothers/sisters did not have
> an available assembler. Assembly type mnemonics were defined, but the
only
> place I recalled them used was as labels for code generation table
lookups
> within the various compilers. The only way you could generate code was
via
> one of the supported compilers, with most system type functions save the
> MCP written in DC-ALGOL. (It's been a long time, so I could certainly
be
> wrong here.)
Fine, but the fact that the system had no assembler doesn't mean that Algol
was the assembly language. It means that the system was essentially
HLL-only. Having Algol as the assembly language, with the standard
definition of assembly languages, suggests direct execution of something
very, very close to /source/ Algol statements, and the B-5500 simply didn't
do that.
Much, much later, well after Iowa State's SYMBOL system and the
direct-execution APL emulators, the B-6700 system was used for advanced
microprogrammed support for high-level languages. But even then,
pre-processing was required.
Jay R. Ashworth
Tim Shoppa (sho...@alph02.triumf.ca) wrote:
: It certainly sounds like the style of games in _101 Basic Computer
: Games_ or its sequel.
: I've found the half-dozen 8" CP/M floppies that I own which have
: "Creative Computing" labels on them.
: I fire up the trusty old IMSAI, list the contents, and play a
: game of good 'ol WUMPUS:
: CompuPro 64K CP/M 2.2Q (85/88)
: Copyright (c) 1985 VIASYN Corporation
: 8" DISK1A as A: B: C: D:
: 4 M-Drive/H as drive M:
: A>stat b:*.*
: Recs Bytes Ext Acc
: 0 0k 1 R/W B:-GAMES.600
: 15 2k 1 R/W B:ACEYDUCY.BAS
The bits haven't fallen off yet??
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth j...@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us
Member of the Technical Staff Unsolicited Commercial Emailers Sued
The Suncoast Freenet Pedantry: It's not just a job, it's an adventure.
Tampa Bay, Florida http://members.aol.com/kyop/rhps.html +1 813 790 7592
Tim Shoppa
In article <5aa8se$6...@news.usf.edu>,
Jay R. Ashworth <j...@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> wrote:
>Tim Shoppa (sho...@alph02.triumf.ca) wrote:
>: It certainly sounds like the style of games in _101 Basic Computer
>: Games_ or its sequel.
>: I've found the half-dozen 8" CP/M floppies that I own which have
>: "Creative Computing" labels on them.
>: game of good 'ol WUMPUS:
>: 0 0k 1 R/W B:-GAMES.600
>: 15 2k 1 R/W B:ACEYDUCY.BAS
>The bits haven't fallen off yet??
Nope :-) I can almost always read 8" SSSD floppies from the mid and
late 70's without any difficulty. I do have a number of double-sided
and double-density floppies from the mid-80's from which the inner tracks
can only be read with great difficulty if at all, though.
Tim. (sho...@triumf.ca)
larry kollar
Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
>Tim Shoppa (sho...@alph02.triumf.ca) wrote:
>: I've found the half-dozen 8" CP/M floppies that I own which have
>: "Creative Computing" labels on them.
>
>: I fire up the trusty old IMSAI, list the contents, and play a
>: game of good 'ol WUMPUS:
>The bits haven't fallen off yet??
I've been going through a pile of 8" disks that came with this
NEC APC that was more or less forced on me :-), and between 1/3
and 1/2 of them have oxide flaking off the surfaces. And I used
to think that Verbatim 8-inchers were nearly indestructable....
Man, I hate to think about what the drive heads must look like.
The drives are completely enclosed, so cleaning them is going to
take some major surgery (unless I can find an 8" drive cleaning
disk).
Anyway, where can I find fresh 8" floppies? I'd like to get
everything backed up before it's too late.
BTW, one of the good disks is "Championship Chess" from Software
Toolworks -- what that & a bunch of other CP/M-80 disks are doing
packed with a CP/M-86 system is beyond me. I'd like to trade it
for some -86 software, if anyone's interested. (It's an original
disk, not a pirate, just in case the ARs out there didn't figure
that out.)
Carl R. Friend
larry kollar wrote:
>
> Anyway, where can I find fresh 8" floppies? I'd like to get
> everything backed up before it's too late.
Finding eight-inchers isn't as bad as it might seem. In looking for
5 1/4s several months ago, I was astounded to see that Lechmere (in
MA/USA) carried 8" floppies.
Formatting, however, is another problem altogether. Does anybody
"out there" know where _formatted_ 8" disks can be found (for a DEC
RX02, which can't format on its own). Or, as an alternative, does the
RX02 simply use a standard format that can be written by another
computer?
I've got a decent cache of formatted floppies now, but the future
is coming...
--
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl....@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
Tim Shoppa
In article <5abb44$6...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>,
larry kollar <leko...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>I've been going through a pile of 8" disks that came with this
>NEC APC that was more or less forced on me :-), and between 1/3
>and 1/2 of them have oxide flaking off the surfaces. And I used
>to think that Verbatim 8-inchers were nearly indestructable....
I think it has a lot to do with how they've been stored. I've
had very good luck in reading 8" disks from the mid-70's. It's
the ones from the early 70's (almost always IBM branded) that
give me the flaking problems.
It's worth noting that flaking is also a big problem in reading
old 7-track and 9-track tapes. Far and away the best tapes
are Scotch 700/Blackwatch.
>Man, I hate to think about what the drive heads must look like.
>The drives are completely enclosed, so cleaning them is going to
>take some major surgery (unless I can find an 8" drive cleaning
>disk).
As of last month, Dow Electronics on Colorado Blvd in Pasadena
CA had two 3M 8" drive cleaning kits. Don't bother calling
on Jan 1 - they aren't open :-). You might be able to catch
a glimpse of the exterior of the shop if you watch the parade
coverage on TV (probably not, though; the TV coverage tends
to be much, much earlier along the route.)
>Anyway, where can I find fresh 8" floppies? I'd like to get
>everything backed up before it's too late.
California Digital sells boxes of 10 DSDD floppies for $12.95.
They're in Gardena CA and their number is 1-800-421-5041.
For people outside the states, they are even kind enough to
give their non-toll-free number: 1-310-217-0500.
The last boxes of DSDD floppies I got from them were unformatted,
so you'll need the ability to format raw floppies. If you
ask them nicely they might be able to find some ones preformatted
with what you need. California Digital has the best stock of
NOS 8" drives that I've ever seen.
Tim Shoppa
In article <32C9370B...@swec.com>,
Carl R. Friend <carl....@swec.com> wrote:
> Finding eight-inchers isn't as bad as it might seem. In looking for
>5 1/4s several months ago, I was astounded to see that Lechmere (in
>MA/USA) carried 8" floppies.
At least some of the Fry's stores in California have 8" DSDD
floppies on their shelves. Not sure if they come preformatted,
or if they do, which format is on them.
> Formatting, however, is another problem altogether. Does anybody
>"out there" know where _formatted_ 8" disks can be found (for a DEC
>RX02, which can't format on its own).
DECdirect (1-800-DIGITAL) lists them for US$50 or so a box. (They
come in the nifty plastic fold-out cases, at least.) I think that
DEC has end-of-lifed these, so they may not be available from
them for much longer.
> Or, as an alternative, does the
>RX02 simply use a standard format that can be written by another
>computer?
The format that an RX02 uses in its data fields is somewhat bizarre:
the sector headers are written in "single density" (good old FM
modulation) while the data itself is written in "double density",
using a variant of MFM modulation.
Third-party hardware which was sold as RX02 capable can often directly
format raw disks into RX02's. I'm most familiar with the DSD (aka
Qualogy) DSD440, but I believe that many other brands would do the
formatting as well. If anyone needs docs or formatting software for
the DSD440, I'd be glad to make copies.
If you can find a machine that formats plain-jane SSSD floppies, a
DEC RX02 can reformat the data fields. (It won't write the
sector headers.) Under VMS, you'd tell it to
$INIT/DENSITY=DOUBLE DYA0:
Under RT11, you'd tell it to
.FORMAT DY0:
If using RSX-11M/M+, you can issue the MCR command
FMT DY0:
And under 2.11 BSD, you can tell it to
rxformat /dev/rrx0b
Note that all of the above are for turning single-desity disks into
RX02-type double density disks. There are corresponding commands
for going the other way, too.
Bob Schor
Tim Shoppa wrote:
>
> Third-party hardware which was sold as RX02 capable can often directly
> format raw disks into RX02's. I'm most familiar with the DSD (aka
> Qualogy) DSD440, but I believe that many other brands would do the
> formatting as well. If anyone needs docs or formatting software for
> the DSD440, I'd be glad to make copies.
>
what come call RX03, i.e. DSDD, formatting). I presume the DSD440
floppy software will also work in the DSD880, right? [I've also got, I
think, DSDD formatters for the 880 ...].
Bob Schor
RT-11/TSX+ User/Abuser
dbill...@crcvms.unl.edu
It's true that 8" media are becoming harder and harder to find.
What can be a bigger problem is when your 8" drive craps out on you.
Those are also becoming rarer and rarer. I came up with a solution of
sorts to this. It turns out that standard DSHD 5 1/4" floppy drives are
compatable with the RX02 drives. I've patched in a couple of 5 1/4" drives
to my DSD controller, and successfully have a hybrid system going. I've
got one 5 1/4" and one 8" DSDD drives running under RT-11 V5.2 (with a
slightly modified DY handler for double sided). It's really simple. All I
did was build a small "patch board" using a 50 pin connector (from the
controller), another 50 pin connector (to the 8" drive) and a 34 pin
connector (to the 5 1/4" drive). The connections are as follows:
Signal Name Controller 5 1/4" drive
Cable Cable
=============================================================================
Track > 43 2 n/c
not used 4 n/c
not used 6 n/c
not used 8 n/c
2-sided 10 --> gnd n/c
not used 12 n/c
Side Select 14 32
not used 16 n/c
Head Load 18 4
Index 20 8
not used 12 n/c
not used 14 n/c
Drive Select 1 26 10
Drive Select 2 28 12
not used 30 n/c
not used 32 n/c
Direction Select 34 18
Step 36 20
Write Data 38 22
Write Gate 40 24
Track 00 42 26
Write Protect 44 28
Read Data 46 30
not used 48 n/c
not used 50 n/c
notes: 1.) Connect pin 10 of the controller cable to ground. This tells
the controller (if it supports double sided drives) that the
drives connected are in fact double sided.
2.) Connect pin 16 of the 5 1/4 cable to ground.
3.) All odd numbered pins are grounds. While it probably isn't
necessary to hook them all up (they're connected on the drive
and on the controller), it can't hurt, and probably gives you
a more "noise resistant" cable. At the very least, hook
several of them up, to common the grounds of the drives and the
controller.
Well, that's all there is to it. My version is just a piece of perf board,
3 wire wrap connectors, and lots of wire wrap. I've only tested it (so
far) with a DSD controller, but hope to soon with a Plessy controller. I'm
still in the middle of copying all of my old 8" disks to 5 1/4" ones, so I
still use both drives. I guess that there's even no reason one couldn't
hook up a 3 1/2" drive, however the 1 Mbyte format will waste about 30% of
the space on a 3 1/2" disk.
Now, more on subject, I do know that both the DSD and the Plessy
controllers (I can't remember the model numbers right now) do have on-board
formatting firm-ware. I've got MACRO programs that I can post (they're
very short) to format a disk. Like Tim, I can provides lots of details on
the DSD controller (I have a manual), but I don't for the Plessey ones 8-{(
so write me and I'll help if I can.
Dave Billesbach
P.S. Thanks Tim, I got Wombat running and have now structured,
formatted, and have a couple of MFM drives running under RT-11 V5.2
------------------------------- Disclaimer: "What the hell would
| DBILL...@crcvms.unl.edu | you want with my
| 201N WSEC | opinions anyway?"
| Univ. of Nebraska |
| Lincoln, NE 68588-0511 | "By the time they had diminished from
| (402)472-7961 | 50 to 8, the other dwarves began to
------------------------------- suspect 'Hungry'..................."
-Gary Larson-
_ ,/|
'\`o.O'
=(_ _)=
|U|
"Ackkkk!! Tbhppphhhh!!"
-Bill the Cat-
Don Maslin
Tim Shoppa (sho...@alph02.triumf.ca) wrote:
: In article <5abb44$6...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>,
: larry kollar <leko...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
: >I've been going through a pile of 8" disks that came with this
: >NEC APC that was more or less forced on me :-), and between 1/3
: >and 1/2 of them have oxide flaking off the surfaces. And I used
: >to think that Verbatim 8-inchers were nearly indestructable....
: I think it has a lot to do with how they've been stored. I've
: had very good luck in reading 8" disks from the mid-70's. It's
: the ones from the early 70's (almost always IBM branded) that
: give me the flaking problems.
Dissenting opinion! I think that it has more to do with their being
Verbatim. Back about then, one of Verbatims claims to fame was that
their disks had a 'lubricated' surface that reduced head wear. My
experience is that these disks are the most likely to flake and that
it is due to this 'soft' surface. Disks like 3M and Maxell, on the
other hand hold up much better.
: It's worth noting that flaking is also a big problem in reading
: old 7-track and 9-track tapes. Far and away the best tapes
: are Scotch 700/Blackwatch.
: >Man, I hate to think about what the drive heads must look like.
: >The drives are completely enclosed, so cleaning them is going to
: >take some major surgery (unless I can find an 8" drive cleaning
: >disk).
It seems to me that a recent issue of the Lyben catalog listed both
disks and cleaners, but I am not really sure. They are still
available, however.
: As of last month, Dow Electronics on Colorado Blvd in Pasadena
: CA had two 3M 8" drive cleaning kits. Don't bother calling
: on Jan 1 - they aren't open :-). You might be able to catch
: a glimpse of the exterior of the shop if you watch the parade
: coverage on TV (probably not, though; the TV coverage tends
: to be much, much earlier along the route.)
: >Anyway, where can I find fresh 8" floppies? I'd like to get
: >everything backed up before it's too late.
: California Digital sells boxes of 10 DSDD floppies for $12.95.
: They're in Gardena CA and their number is 1-800-421-5041.
: For people outside the states, they are even kind enough to
: give their non-toll-free number: 1-310-217-0500.
Good thing too! I had a e-mail from them some time back advising that
their 800 number had been cancelled about a year prior.
: The last boxes of DSDD floppies I got from them were unformatted,
: so you'll need the ability to format raw floppies. If you
: ask them nicely they might be able to find some ones preformatted
: with what you need. California Digital has the best stock of
: NOS 8" drives that I've ever seen.
: Tim Shoppa, TRIUMF theory group | Internet: sho...@triumf.ca
: TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility | Voice: 604-222-1047 loc 6446
: 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS | FAX: 604-222-1074
: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA V6T 2A3
- don
do...@cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
Simon Slavin
In article <5a75qu$b...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>,
snor...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Scott Norwood) wrote:
> In article <5a72bu$9...@Venus.mcs.net>, Jim Allenspach <ji...@mcs.com> wrote:
> >
> >ftp://ftp.cc.utexas.edu/pub/AI_ATTIC/
>
> This, too, is just what I'm looking for. Anyone know the best (fastest/
> smallest) UNIX utilities for unpacking HQX files? (my, how I wish
> those Mac folks would use ZIP or tar...)
.hqx is not a compression format. It's used for making files
7-bit clean. I'm afraid that I don't know of any UNIX utility
for decoding BinHex (==.hqx) files, but there's a version of
Stuffit Expander that runs under Windows if you have a PC (yuck)
handy.
Simon.
--
Simon Slavin -- Computer Contractor. | "... sneaking in the news
Junk email not welcome at this site. | between bleeding babies the way
Web site (as if you cared): | Shakespeare bracketed poetry
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk | with swordfights." -- Teller
j.r. pierce [see .sig]
"Carl R. Friend" <carl....@swec.com> wrote:
>
> Formatting, however, is another problem altogether. Does anybody
>"out there" know where _formatted_ 8" disks can be found (for a DEC
>RX02, which can't format on its own). Or, as an alternative, does the
>RX02 simply use a standard format that can be written by another
>computer?
I'm pretty sure it uses standard IBM 3740 SS/SD softsectored 128byte
sector format, same as CP/M. I seem to remember using CP/M formatted
disks in the RX02 on our old VAX-11/780 back when I was at DRI.
-jrp
> I've got a decent cache of formatted floppies now, but the future
>is coming...
>
>--
> ______________________________________________________________________
>| | |
>| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
>| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
>| mailto:carl....@stoneweb.com | |
>| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
>|________________________________________________|_____________________|
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This posting has a invalid email address to discourage bulk emailers
if you need to mail me try "pierce at hogranch dot com"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
valerie tate
>>Anyway, where can I find fresh 8" floppies? I'd like to get
>>everything backed up before it's too late.
I just saw some in the catalog for GLOBAL computer supplies, 2318 East
Del Amo Blvd., Dept. RA, Compton, CA 90220
in colors!
J. Chris Hausler
"Carl R. Friend" <carl....@swec.com> writes:
> Formatting, however, is another problem altogether. Does anybody
>"out there" know where _formatted_ 8" disks can be found (for a DEC
>RX02, which can't format on its own). Or, as an alternative, does the
>RX02 simply use a standard format that can be written by another
>computer?
>
>is coming...
RX02's. Trouble is I don't remember their name although "DSD" comes
to mind. I had heard that it was a "weird" format but don't know
for sure.
Chris
Sam Weiner
In article <AEE8DB439...@ehrice.his.com>,
Edward Rice <ehr...@his.com> wrote:
>In article <59nhtl$e...@news-central.tiac.net>,
>sail...@tiac.net (Robert Schuldenfrei) wrote:
>
> > GE BASIC was actually the Dartmouth BASIC, the compiler. It was sold by
>GE
> > Timesharing out of Bethesda, MD. The group was headed by Dr. George
>Feaney (not
> > sure of the spelling of his last name). A number of competitive systems
>were
> > out with the GE gear. One of note that I used was Pillsbury
>Call-A-Computer.
> > That's right folks, the doughboy does BASIC!
>
>I remember Call-A-Computer. Also in Bethesda, at about the same time, was
>CEIR, which I think was swallowed up by CDC a few years later. The CEIR
>building, a landmark on River Road, was still there last time I thought to
>look, but may be gone by now. I was told at the time that CAC had,
>basically, a line of computers, and when they got another dozen or two
>dozen customers signed up, they'd just wheel up another computer and put it
>at the end of the line. When you called in, IIRC, your (very modest) disk
>storage was located in a central server-like facility, farmed out to the
>scaleable-by-multiplication machine that was going to handle your terminal
>session, and then returned to the file server when you logged off.
I can only speak about CAC's Boston site in the 1968 - 1970 timeframe
but they had one GE 265 sitting in Kenmore Square. The Long Island
site (Melville?) may have had a couple of systems. The systems were
not connected in any manner. The scheme above may have come later
after I had moved on to -10s.
[snip -smw]
> > CDC machines ran a number of time sharing systems including Multicomp
>out of
> > Wellesley Hills, MA. It was the 3300 again. Why did BASIC take off the
>way it
> > did? The compiler was small. That is why it was a natural for micros
>at first.
> > It was also in the public domain. That is the price was right.
>
I don't know if it was connected with Multicomp but UMass Amherst also ran
a 3300 in timesharing mode.
Sam
DoN. Nichols
In article <AEEF2D239...@hearsay.demon.co.uk>,
Simon Slavin <sla...@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <5a75qu$b...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>,
>snor...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Scott Norwood) wrote:
>
>> In article <5a72bu$9...@Venus.mcs.net>, Jim Allenspach <ji...@mcs.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >ftp://ftp.cc.utexas.edu/pub/AI_ATTIC/
>>
>> This, too, is just what I'm looking for. Anyone know the best (fastest/
>> smallest) UNIX utilities for unpacking HQX files? (my, how I wish
>> those Mac folks would use ZIP or tar...)
>
>.hqx is not a compression format. It's used for making files
>7-bit clean. I'm afraid that I don't know of any UNIX utility
>for decoding BinHex (==.hqx) files, but there's a version of
>Stuffit Expander that runs under Windows if you have a PC (yuck)
>handy.
Try xbin:
======================================================================
XBIN(1) USER COMMANDS XBIN(1)
NAME
xbin - convert mailable format BinHex file into binary
before downloading to MacTerminal
SYNOPSIS
xbin [ -o ] [ -v ] [ -l ] [[ -n name ] file] ...
DESCRIPTION
Xbin converts a file created by BinHex (usually named with
one of the extensions ".hex", ".hcx", or ".hqx") into three
host-system files suitable for downloading to a Macintosh
via macput. This program is designed for use with the 1.1
Release version of MacTerminal, but includes a compatibility
option for the old -0.15X Almost-Alpha version.
[ ... ]
SEE ALSO
macput(1), macget(1)
AUTHOR
Dave Johnson, Brown 12/16/84; CRC handling code by Darin
Adler, TMQ Software 3/16/85
Sun Release 4.1 Last change: 24 Mar 1985 2
======================================================================
Don't remember where I gound it, but the tar file is not too big:
-rw-r--r-- 1 root daemon 106036 Aug 7 22:44 xbin.tar.gz
so if you can't find it elsewhere and can handle the size in e-mail, I'll
uuencode it and send it to you.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Donald Nichols (DoN.)
Voice Days: (703) 704-2280 | Eves: (703) 938-4564
My Concertina web page: | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Thomas Tonino
larry kollar <leko...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
> I've been going through a pile of 8" disks that came with this
> NEC APC that was more or less forced on me :-), and between 1/3
> and 1/2 of them have oxide flaking off the surfaces.
Hmm... It is a risky operation, but this is what is done with audio
tapes of that age:
Bake them before playing. Then play once to make a copy.
If played without baking, the oxide particles on th ehead could strip
the entrite tape clear.
Sadly I do not remember the right baking temperature and time. Basically
the failure mechanism involves the polyurethane binder which hydrates I
think if stored warm and damp.
Baking makes the medium useable for one more time.
Good luck,
Thomas
p.s. this info came from Studio Sound I think, a UK pro audio magazine,
but I've seen it elsewhere as well.
John Thompson
>larry kollar <leko...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>> I've been going through a pile of 8" disks that came with this
>> NEC APC that was more or less forced on me :-), and between 1/3
>> and 1/2 of them have oxide flaking off the surfaces.
>Hmm... It is a risky operation, but this is what is done with audio
>tapes of that age:
>Bake them before playing. Then play once to make a copy.
>If played without baking, the oxide particles on th ehead could strip
>the entrite tape clear.
>Sadly I do not remember the right baking temperature and time. Basically
>the failure mechanism involves the polyurethane binder which hydrates I
>think if stored warm and damp.
>Baking makes the medium useable for one more time.
I imagine you'd want to keep the temperature fairly low, well
below the curie point :-)
-John (John.T...@ibm.net)
DoN. Nichols
In article <199701020...@wk4.nl2000.nl>,
Thomas Tonino <tto...@bio.vu.nl> wrote:
>larry kollar <leko...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>
>> I've been going through a pile of 8" disks that came with this
>> NEC APC that was more or less forced on me :-), and between 1/3
>> and 1/2 of them have oxide flaking off the surfaces.
>
>Hmm... It is a risky operation, but this is what is done with audio
>tapes of that age:
>
>Bake them before playing. Then play once to make a copy.
>If played without baking, the oxide particles on th ehead could strip
>the entrite tape clear.
>
>Sadly I do not remember the right baking temperature and time. Basically
>the failure mechanism involves the polyurethane binder which hydrates I
>think if stored warm and damp.
>
>Baking makes the medium useable for one more time.
It may well help the oxide, but have you seen what elevated
temperatures (eg the back of a station wagon in a Washington D.C. summer)
can do to the jacket? Carefully cut one edge of the jacket, bow the jacket
open by pressing on opposite edges, and pull the floppy out before baking
it. The floppy is on mylar, the jacket is not so lucky.
And let us know how the baking works -- I may very well have to do
this at some time.
Good Luck,
Lon Stowell
In article <5abs85$e...@newsfeed.cts.com> do...@cts.com (Don Maslin) writes:
>Dissenting opinion! I think that it has more to do with their being
>Verbatim. Back about then, one of Verbatims claims to fame was that
>their disks had a 'lubricated' surface that reduced head wear. My
>experience is that these disks are the most likely to flake and that
>it is due to this 'soft' surface. Disks like 3M and Maxell, on the
>other hand hold up much better.
Not enough caffeine yet this morning to remember who the infamous
vendor was that used the oddball backing medium that was
unbelievably hygroscopic. In a previous life, we tried using
both the single and double sided 8 inchers as load media in
a FEP. One vendor (whose name obviously escapes me) had disks
so bad that if you took a new one out of the protective wrap
and aligned the servos of the Shugart drive perfectly to that
diskette....then took the diskette outside on a humid California
day for a coupla hours, the outermost track would have shifted
anough to be unreadable. Quaint, as another previous incarnation
was headquartered in Marina Del Rey and used to cut master
CP/M floppies within a few blocks of the ocean.....they were
readable only in Florida.
Lon Stowell
In article <199701020...@wk4.nl2000.nl> tto...@bio.vu.nl (Thomas Tonino) writes:
>Sadly I do not remember the right baking temperature and time. Basically
>the failure mechanism involves the polyurethane binder which hydrates I
>think if stored warm and damp.
>
>Baking makes the medium useable for one more time.
>
>
>Thomas
>
>p.s. this info came from Studio Sound I think, a UK pro audio magazine,
>but I've seen it elsewhere as well.
Try rec.audio.pro Some of the pro recording engineers like Bill
Vermillion have the details or references to the details.
larry kollar
Don Maslin wrote:
>Tim Shoppa (sho...@alph02.triumf.ca) wrote:
>: larry kollar <leko...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>: >And I used
>: >to think that Verbatim 8-inchers were nearly indestructable....
>: I think it has a lot to do with how they've been stored.
>Dissenting opinion! I think that it has more to do with their being
>Verbatim. Back about then, one of Verbatims claims to fame was that
>their disks had a 'lubricated' surface that reduced head wear. My
>experience is that these disks are the most likely to flake and that
>it is due to this 'soft' surface. Disks like 3M and Maxell, on the
>other hand hold up much better.
Back when I used 8" disks for backups (on a Chromatics CGC7900),
the Verbatims were the only brand of disks that never gave me
trouble. Perhaps that surface was great for short-term (two year)
storage, but not so great for 10-15 years. Don't get me started
on Dysan disks. :-P
So anyway, it looks like 8" disks are still available. I'll have
to get out the credit card & give California Digital a call tonight.
If you have any stories about the NEC APC, send email!
Johnny Billquist
In <32c9a359...@news.scruznet.com> anti...@here.not (j.r. pierce [see .sig]) writes:
>"Carl R. Friend" <carl....@swec.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Formatting, however, is another problem altogether. Does anybody
>>"out there" know where _formatted_ 8" disks can be found (for a DEC
>>RX02, which can't format on its own). Or, as an alternative, does the
>>RX02 simply use a standard format that can be written by another
>>computer?
>
>I'm pretty sure it uses standard IBM 3740 SS/SD softsectored 128byte
>sector format, same as CP/M. I seem to remember using CP/M formatted
>disks in the RX02 on our old VAX-11/780 back when I was at DRI.
Correct.
Actually, the RX02 uses a discrete controller on the board.
When you want RX02 (double density) it switches density in the middle
of the block. The header is always single density, but the data
can be in single density (RX01) or double density (RX02).
Because of this, you will hardly find any other 8" drive that can read
an RX02 floppy, since they can't switch density in the middle of a block.
(No one-chip controller I know of can...)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Thomas Tonino
John Thompson <jth...@ibm.net> wrote:
> In <199701020...@wk4.nl2000.nl>, tto...@bio.vu.nl (Thomas Tonino)
> writes:
>
> >Baking makes the medium useable for one more time.
>
> I imagine you'd want to keep the temperature fairly low, well
> below the curie point :-)
>
Sure you would... and also well below the point where the plastic would
distort. I would guess around 100 degrees C (that's the boiling point of
water for those in the US).
It would be an idea if someone with 'flaky' disks would try it on one. I
think the baking was needen to continue a few hours for a tape.
Presumably disks (taken out of the cover I think) would bake faster.
> -John (John.T...@ibm.net)
Thomas Tonino (tto...@bio.vu.nl)