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700 prosecutions?
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gareth evans
Apr 22, 2021, 2:45:52 PM4/22/21
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In the news tonight are details about the 700
sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses who were
prosecuted for fraud by the Brit Post Office, with
some of the umfortunates being imprisoned while
others were bankrupted.
I wonder what was the abominable error foisted
onto those poor unfortunates by an incompetent
computer programmer in the employ of the Post
Office?
A mish-mash of integer and floating point
division, perhaps?
sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses who were
prosecuted for fraud by the Brit Post Office, with
some of the umfortunates being imprisoned while
others were bankrupted.
I wonder what was the abominable error foisted
onto those poor unfortunates by an incompetent
computer programmer in the employ of the Post
Office?
A mish-mash of integer and floating point
division, perhaps?
chris
Apr 23, 2021, 7:36:25 PM4/23/21
to
real problem was a management culture that saw
postmasters and other employees as some sort of
untermensch. Always on the fiddle and forever
untrusted. Everyone is a criminal etc. That and the
complete unwillingness to admit that they were
wrong, covering their backsides all the way to the
bank. Poor software development process and poor
or nonexistent testing before release.
People ought to be jailed for this, but doubt it will
happen...
Andy Walker
Apr 25, 2021, 1:45:20 PM4/25/21
to
On 24/04/2021 00:36, chris wrote:
> On 04/22/21 19:45, gareth evans wrote:
>> I wonder what was the abominable error foisted
>> onto those poor unfortunates by an incompetent
>> computer programmer in the employ of the Post
>> Office?
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/bates-v-post-office-appendix-1.pdf
> On 04/22/21 19:45, gareth evans wrote:
>> I wonder what was the abominable error foisted
>> onto those poor unfortunates by an incompetent
>> computer programmer in the employ of the Post
>> Office?
>> A mish-mash of integer and floating point
>> division, perhaps?
> [...] Poor software development process and poor
> or nonexistent testing before release.
From the above PDF [114 pages of detailed analysis]
that seems to be a very unfair description of what ICL and
Fujitsu [and others] did. "Horizon" was an extremely complex
system [one of the largest and most complex in Europe], which
was processing many billions of transactions, and was not in
itself responsible for the appalling way the sub-postmasters
were treated. I would suggest that anyone wanting to comment
further on the computing aspects of the cases should at least
skim the judgement first -- it's far too long, complicated
and technical to summarise here. FWIW, I started with much
the same attitude as you and Gareth, but then wondered how
well Messrs Gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg, ... might fare if they
were hauled up in court to explain every bug in Windows [etc]
over more than 20 years of use, millions of transactions every
day, millions of random hardware crashes, etc.
--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Galos
Vir Campestris
Apr 25, 2021, 4:41:30 PM4/25/21
to
On 22/04/2021 19:45, gareth evans wrote:
> I wonder what was the abominable error foisted
> onto those poor unfortunates by an incompetent
> computer programmer in the employ of the Post
> Office?
You'd think that someone would have though it odd that the number of
> I wonder what was the abominable error foisted
> onto those poor unfortunates by an incompetent
> computer programmer in the employ of the Post
> Office?
prosecutions seemed to be rising suddenly. But apparently not.
Andy
Andy Walker
Apr 26, 2021, 4:39:54 AM4/26/21
to
On 25/04/2021 21:41, Vir Campestris wrote:
> You'd think that someone would have though it odd that the number of
> prosecutions seemed to be rising suddenly. But apparently not.
The number of prosecutions going up isn't "odd"; you move
> You'd think that someone would have though it odd that the number of
> prosecutions seemed to be rising suddenly. But apparently not.
from a manual system to a computerised system, and so you get hard
information printed out in flashing red that "Here be a discrepancy"
instead of humans trying to spot things and mostly being unable to
prove what's happened. The odd thing is that there was a complete
audit trail of every transaction, and they seem not to have thought
it worth looking at those in dispute. Or perhaps they didn't know
about it, as it was primarily for the computer people rather than
the fraud department?
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Smith
Thomas Koenig
Apr 26, 2021, 6:04:12 AM4/26/21
to
Andy Walker <a...@cuboid.co.uk> schrieb:
a technical feat.
> On 25/04/2021 21:41, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> You'd think that someone would have though it odd that the number of
>> prosecutions seemed to be rising suddenly. But apparently not.
>
> The number of prosecutions going up isn't "odd"; you move
> from a manual system to a computerised system, and so you get hard
> information printed out in flashing red
I want that printer - printing out a flashing light seems quite
>> You'd think that someone would have though it odd that the number of
>> prosecutions seemed to be rising suddenly. But apparently not.
>
> The number of prosecutions going up isn't "odd"; you move
> from a manual system to a computerised system, and so you get hard
> information printed out in flashing red
a technical feat.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Apr 26, 2021, 7:00:03 AM4/26/21
to
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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