Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?

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S. T. L.

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Sep 2, 2000, 6:23:55 PM9/2/00
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/*The below quotes
are being tossed about to prove that Al Gore was indeed instrumental
in bringing about the Internet.*/

He wasn't.

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Jan Schaumann

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Sep 2, 2000, 6:55:52 PM9/2/00
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On Sat, 2 Sep 2000 15:11:56 -0700 (PDT), Quinn Penn wrote:

> Could you computer people help us political folks? The below quotes are


> being tossed about to prove that Al Gore was indeed instrumental in
> bringing about the Internet.
>

> What is the truth? Is Algore The Father of the Internet?
>

there is a difference between Al Gore being helpful or "instrumental" in
it's evolution and him being "the Father of the Internet"

And he certainly did NOT invent the internet.

For details of the internets history refer to:
http://www.isoc.org/internet/history/
http://www.internetvalley.com/intval1.html
http://www.w3.org/History.html
et al

Fup2 talk.politics.misc

<snip>

-Jan

--
Jan Schaumann <http://www.netmeister.org>

Small things make base men proud.
-- William Shakespeare, "Henry VI"

Bill Bonde

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Sep 2, 2000, 6:54:02 PM9/2/00
to

Quinn Penn wrote:
>
> Could you computer people help us political folks? The below quotes
> are being tossed about to prove that Al Gore was indeed instrumental
> in bringing about the Internet.
>
> What is the truth? Is Algore The Father of the Internet?
>

LOL. No. It's one of those things that Al Gore said in a moment of
self-hype. We are talking about the guy who invented the term,
"Information Superhighway". Is that something to be proud of?

Floyd Davidson

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Sep 2, 2000, 7:46:22 PM9/2/00
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q...@crazedgopher.edu (Quinn Penn) wrote:
>Could you computer people help us political folks? The below quotes
>are being tossed about to prove that Al Gore was indeed instrumental
>in bringing about the Internet.
>
>What is the truth? Is Algore The Father of the Internet?

If you ask a bunch of techie types, the answer is Vinton Cerf,
who took the lead in developing the technical aspects of the
Internet that make it what it is.

If you ask a bunch of political types, the answer is Al Gore,
who took the lead in developing the political aspects required
to allow the Interent to become what we know it as today.

We might consider though, that without Al Gore's contribution,
the technology that Vint Cerf developed would not have been more
than interesting reading material for techies. After all, the
ARPANET became an IP network *long* before The Internet became
a household word. Al Gore's attention made it a household word.

Floyd

>>Vinton G Cerf , a senior vice president at MCI Worldcom is often
>>called the "father of the Internet" for his part in designing the
>>common computer language of the network. He said, "I think it is very
>>fair to say that the Internet would not be where it is in the US
>>without the strong support given to it and related research areas by
>>the vice president in his current role and his earlier role as
>>senator".
>>
>>Katy Hafner who co-authored a book about the history of the online
>>world, said that people have been haggling over the true beginnings of
>>the Internet for decades. "As we all know, there are many paternity
>>claims on the Internet. That's a given, because it's so successful.
>>But there are so many people who did at least ONE pivotal thing in
>>either creating the network, or encouraging the use of the network, or
>>bringing the network to the public...and Al Gore was one of those
>>people."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Floyd L. Davidson fl...@barrow.com
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Gore_In_Conte...@no-spam.com

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Sep 2, 2000, 9:55:31 PM9/2/00
to
Gore did not claim to be the father of the internet (nor to have invented it :-).

Gore said that during his term in Congress, he led the other Congressmen by writing
and sponsoring the bills which turned ARPANET into the Information Superhighway we
now have.

It is not a question of politicans being more important than scientists. It is a
question of which politician led the other politicians.

Here are more quotes to the purpose:

Gore_In_Context homepage | Bush-Fib-File

Gore DID take the initiative in creating the Internet

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1112-2000Aug9.html
Truth Be Told -- By Richard Cohen
[ Gore ] spoke as a legislator who really had been among the first to grasp the
importance of the Internet: "During my service in the United States Congress, I took
the initiative in creating the Internet." He did. You can look it up.

http://www.nydailynews.com/2000-05-05/News_and_Views/Opinion/a-65600.asp
Lars Erik Nelson, Friday, May 05, 2000, "He's got a case"
A) Gore did not claim to have invented the Internet. In an interview with Wolf
Blitzer in March 1999, Gore said: "During my service in the U.S. Congress, I took the
initiative in creating the Internet."
B) This claim is perfectly true. In March 1986, when computers were still something
found mostly in laboratories, Gore sponsored the Supercomputer Network Study Act to
link the nation's supercomputers into a single system.
This was his vision: "Libraries, rural schools, minority institutions and vocational
education programs will have access to the same national resources — databases,
supercomputers, accelerators — as more affluent and better-known institutions." [
1986 ]
[ Another ] bill directed that the Pentagon's Defense Advanced Research Projects
Agency, which had created the forerunner of the Internet, "shall ensure that
unclassified computer technology research is readily available to American industry."
[ 1989 ]
..."establish a high-capacity national research and education computer network."
In testimony to a House committee, Gore said: "I genuinely believe that the creation
of this nationwide network ... will create an environment where work stations are
common in homes and even small businesses." [ 1989 ]
At the time, even computer professionals were jeering at the notion of personal
computers. They would be a waste of money, costly machines for balancing checkbooks
or storing recipes. Gore saw them as terminals in a future national network of
knowledge. [ 1989 ]
One of Gore's Republican colleagues, Sen. Slade Gorton of Washington, credited him at
the time for introducing a bill that would "create [note that word] a high-capacity
national research and education network to link up supercomputers and databases
around the country." [ 1989 ]
In 1991, Gore reintroduced his bill to provide funding for development of a national
computer network. He said: "Today, most students using computer networks are studying
science and engineering, but there are more and more applications in other fields,
too. Economists, historians and literature majors are all discovering the power of
networking. In the future, I think we will see computers and networks used to teach
every subject from kindergarten through grade school."
[ Complete Nelson story below. -- Filia ]


From Guardian, UK:
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,330871,00.html
Gore was indeed in the forefront of legislative initiatives to create the internet.
Columbia University's James Traub, who chaired the computer science and
telecommunications board, says: "Al Gore was perhaps the first political leader to
grasp the importance of networking the country . . . At the time he was a senator
from a fairly small south-eastern state and I was amazed at his national vision."
Gore followed through in eight years as vice-president; back then, the mockery was
for talking about some nonsense called "an information superhighway".

From Washington Post:
Al Gore: Internet Pioneer
Jaron Lanier in the Washington Post, April 21, 1999
Al Gore did not say he "invented the Internet." That's media hype.
What he said on CNN was, "I took the initiative in developing the
Internet." Anyone in my world knows that is an accurate statement, and
the media only showed their own techno-illiteracy in not bothering to
investigate, let alone explain, the reality to readers. He deserves
bragging rights.
I knew Al Gore in the 1980s, and I can attest to the fact that he
"got" the Internet even before it was understood by much of thes
mainstream of computer science. It's hard for us to remember now how
alien the Internet used to be.
Back in the '80s, Mr. Gore was the only national political figure who
understood what the Internet could mean to America's future. He
introduced Senate Bill 2594, the Supercomputer Network Study Act, in
1986, when forward-looking companies such as Apple still didn't even
have e-mail.
His "Information Superhighway" metaphor is brilliant and has played a
significant role in guiding the balance between government and
industry in creating the marvelous explosion of creativity and wealth
the country has enjoyed as a result of the Net. As was the case with
the physical highway system championed by Mr. Gore's father, the
government role in the information economy has been crucial.
Lest anyone forget, the Internet came into existence through
government initiative. At the same time, restraint in the regulation
of the use of the Net infrastructure was vital to the resulting
economic success.
JARON LANIER, Sausalito, Calif.
The writer was a pioneer of "virtual reality," which he named.

From San Francisco Examiner (with quotes from WP)
http://examiner.com/000815/081500sorensen.html
Well, let's ask Vinton G. Cerf, who is commonly known as "the father of the
Internet." In its March 21, 1999, edition, the Washington Post quoted Cerf thusly: "I
think it is very safe to say that the Internet would not be where it is in the United
States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by the vice
president in his current role and in his earlier role as senator."///
I wonder if Cerf knows about the pitch that Al Gore made in a Washington Post article
published on July 15, 1990. Gore was a senator at the time and chairman of the
subcommittee on science, technology and space.
He wrote about the "information superhighway." Remember that term? Gore was all over
northern California in the early 1990s touting the so-called information
superhighway. Most of us then had no idea what he was talking about.
"If we had the information superhighways we need," Gore wrote in his 1990 Post
article, "a school child could plug into the Library of Congress every afternoon and
explore a universe of knowledge, jumping from one subject to another, according to
the curiosity of the moment."
Gore raved on and on about the Internet, a subject about which most of us knew
absolutely nothing at the time.
And he wrote about the market for computers and software and how those markets could
enhance the nation's economy if the Internet were fully developed and popularized.
Looking back, it was almost as if Gore could foresee the future.
In 1991 Gore was congressional author of something called the High Performance
Computing Act of 1991. That Act, reluctantly signed into law by President Bush near
the end of 1991, made about $2 billion of government money available for development
of the Internet. (Bush favored a more cautious approach to building the Internet and
naturally wanted private investors to cash in on it.)
Gore had actually been pushing for development of the Internet in previous years, but
the Reagan administration had opposed him ///
Kate Hafner is co-author of a history of the online world. She told the Washington
Post last year that "there are so many people who did at least one pivotal thing in


either creating the network, or encouraging the use of the network, or bringing the

network to the public -- and Gore was one of those people."
Gore_In_Context homepage | Top of page | | Discussion board | Bush-Fib-File

Source of misquote:
http://onlinejournal.com/Media/GoreMedia/goremedia.html
From "Al Gore v. the media" by Robert Parry, Feb 1, 2000
Gore's actual comment, in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer that aired on March 9,
1999, was as follows: "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
initiative in creating the Internet."
Republicans quickly went to work on Gore's statement. In press releases, they noted
that the precursor of the Internet, called ARPANET, existed in 1971, a half dozen
years before Gore entered Congress. But ARPANET was a tiny networking of about 30
universities, a far cry from today's "information superhighway," ironically a phrase
widely credited to Gore.
As the media clamor arose about Gore's supposed claim that he had invented the
Internet, Gore's spokesman Chris Lehane tried to explain. He noted that Gore "was the
leader in Congress on the connections between data transmission and computing power,
what we call information technology. And those efforts helped to create the Internet
that we know today." [AP, March 11, 1999]

Here is the uncut story from Lars Erik Nelson in NY Daily News:
http://www.nydailynews.com/2000-05-05/News_and_Views/Opinion/a-65600.asp
Friday, May 05, 2000
Gore Invented Internet?
Hey, He's Got a Case
WASHINGTON
Miffed at the latest attack on him from Vice President Gore, George W. Bush accuses
the vice president of stretching the truth.
"He's the man who said he invented the Internet," Bush gibed, echoing a common joke
at Gore's expense.
Now let's kill the joke.
A) Gore did not claim to have invented the Internet. In an interview with Wolf
Blitzer in March 1999, Gore said: "During my service in the U.S. Congress, I took the
initiative in creating the Internet."
B) This claim is perfectly true. In March 1986, when computers were still something
found mostly in laboratories, Gore sponsored the Supercomputer Network Study Act to
link the nation's supercomputers into a single system.
This was his vision: "Libraries, rural schools, minority institutions and vocational
education programs will have access to the same national resources — databases,
supercomputers, accelerators — as more affluent and better-known institutions."
Three years later, after noticing that France was making strides with its Minitel
home-computer network, Gore introduced the National High Performance Computer
Technology Act. One of its aims was to "establish a high-capacity national research
and education computer network."
His bill directed that the Pentagon's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency,
which had created the forerunner of the Internet, "shall ensure that unclassified
computer technology research is readily available to American industry."
In testimony to a House committee, Gore said: "I genuinely believe that the creation
of this nationwide network ... will create an environment where work stations are
common in homes and even small businesses."
At the time, even computer professionals were jeering at the notion of personal
computers. They would be a waste of money, costly machines for balancing checkbooks
or storing recipes. Gore saw them as terminals in a future national network of
knowledge.
One of Gore's Republican colleagues, Sen. Slade Gorton of Washington, credited him at
the time for introducing a bill that would "create [note that word] a high-capacity
national research and education network to link up supercomputers and databases
around the country."
In 1991, Gore reintroduced his bill to provide funding for development of a national
computer network. He said: "Today, most students using computer networks are studying
science and engineering, but there are more and more applications in other fields,
too. Economists, historians and literature majors are all discovering the power of
networking. In the future, I think we will see computers and networks used to teach
every subject from kindergarten through grade school."
Gore found a supporter: President George Bush, father of George W. He signed Gore's
bill on Dec. 9, 1991, predicting that this new technology "offers the potential to
transform radically the way in which all Americans will work, learn and communicate
in the future. It holds the promise of changing society as much as the other great
inventions of the 20th century, including the telephone, air travel, radio and TV."
Does this documented record justify Gore's claim that during his service in Congress
he took the initiative in creating the Internet as we know it today? Seems to me, he
has a pretty good case.
But don't expect Bush, who urges Gore to "stick to the facts," to drop his sneer. He
knows that a lie is a powerful political weapon that can survive forever. His own
father never managed to kill the myth that he had no idea what a supermarket checkout
computer was.
By the way, when he signed Gore's Internet bill, President Bush took credit for it
himself. He said he had proposed it in his 1992 budget.
Gore_In_Context homepage | Top of page | | Discussion board | Bush-Fib-File

On Sat, 2 Sep 2000 15:11:56 -0700 (PDT), q...@crazedgopher.edu (Quinn Penn) wrote:

>Could you computer people help us political folks? The below quotes
>are being tossed about to prove that Al Gore was indeed instrumental
>in bringing about the Internet.
>
>What is the truth? Is Algore The Father of the Internet?
>

>>Vinton G Cerf , a senior vice president at MCI Worldcom is often
>>called the "father of the Internet" for his part in designing the
>>common computer language of the network. He said, "I think it is very
>>fair to say that the Internet would not be where it is in the US
>>without the strong support given to it and related research areas by
>>the vice president in his current role and his earlier role as
>>senator".
>>
>>Katy Hafner who co-authored a book about the history of the online
>>world, said that people have been haggling over the true beginnings of
>>the Internet for decades. "As we all know, there are many paternity
>>claims on the Internet. That's a given, because it's so successful.
>>But there are so many people who did at least ONE pivotal thing in
>>either creating the network, or encouraging the use of the network, or
>>bringing the network to the public...and Al Gore was one of those
>>people."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

*************************************************

http://Gore_In_Context.tripod.com -- my new site

Pew/PEJ report: media coverage favors Bush:
http://www.journalism.org/publ_research/character1.html

Re campaign finance see
http://www.salonmagazine.com/news/col/cona/2000/06/07/china/index.html
At my site see link direct to "Temple in a Teapot", a very well-written
article at americanlawyer.com debunking Gore campaign
finance charges.

Other good sites debunking anti-Clinton/Gore stories:
http://www.dailyhowler.com/
http://www.americandispatches.com/index.html
http://www.consortiumnews.com/
http://www.prospect.org/

Vote out the Impeachers! moveon.org & pfaw.org
*************************************************

dionysus

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Sep 2, 2000, 11:09:09 PM9/2/00
to

>If you ask a bunch of political types, the answer is Al Gore,
>who took the lead in developing the political aspects required
>to allow the Interent to become what we know it as today.
>
Being a foreigner, please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly did Al
Gore do for the internet's reputation apart from coin a rather silly
phrase?

>We might consider though, that without Al Gore's contribution,
>the technology that Vint Cerf developed would not have been more
>than interesting reading material for techies. After all, the
>ARPANET became an IP network *long* before The Internet became
>a household word. Al Gore's attention made it a household word.
>
> Floyd
>
>>>Vinton G Cerf , a senior vice president at MCI Worldcom is often
>>>called the "father of the Internet" for his part in designing the
>>>common computer language of the network. He said, "I think it is very
>>>fair to say that the Internet would not be where it is in the US
>>>without the strong support given to it and related research areas by
>>>the vice president in his current role and his earlier role as
>>>senator".
>>>
>>>Katy Hafner who co-authored a book about the history of the online
>>>world, said that people have been haggling over the true beginnings of
>>>the Internet for decades. "As we all know, there are many paternity
>>>claims on the Internet. That's a given, because it's so successful.
>>>But there are so many people who did at least ONE pivotal thing in
>>>either creating the network, or encouraging the use of the network, or
>>>bringing the network to the public...and Al Gore was one of those
>>>people."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Floyd L. Davidson fl...@barrow.com
>Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler .

lwin

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 12:44:43 AM9/3/00
to
Well, obviously a lot of people and organizations contributed to making
the Internet what it is today, and clearly no one person or organization
can be singled out. What was the predecessor system, what was the early
Internet, are both very different than the system we use today.

I appreciate the person posting the details behind Gore's contribution.
I had wondered who accused him of claiming to have invented it (which I
knew he never said), but I was pleased to see his contributions during
the early stages; and he rightfully deserves credit for that.
(Of course, if you don't like the Internet, you can say blame.)

Why does society insist on naming a single person as the 'inventor' or
'father' of something? In the case of computers, there is very little
that can be attributed to one single person; and not a whole lot that
can be attributed to a single company (IBM developed the hard disk,
floppy disk, and Fortran language, Univac had the first commercial
computer out the door). Data communications--Bell Telephone, Western
Union, or IBM (they had radio teletypes first)?

J. Otto Tennant

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 12:47:18 AM9/3/00
to
q...@crazedgopher.edu (Quinn Penn) writes:

>Could you computer people help us political folks? The below quotes
>are being tossed about to prove that Al Gore was indeed instrumental
>in bringing about the Internet.

>What is the truth? Is Algore The Father of the Internet?

Yup. There is no doubt about it. Algore and Tipper are also the models
for _Love Story_. (By the way, is "Tipper" her real UID? or just her
effective UID?) Algore discovered "Love Canal."

Excuse me, but are you serious?
--
J.Otto Tennant jo...@pobox.com
Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit.
Charter Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

Gore_In_Conte...@no-spam.com

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 1:44:01 AM9/3/00
to
On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 03:09:09 GMT, diony...@hotmail.com (dionysus) wrote:

>
>>If you ask a bunch of political types, the answer is Al Gore,
>>who took the lead in developing the political aspects required
>>to allow the Interent to become what we know it as today.
>>
>Being a foreigner, please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly did Al
>Gore do for the internet's reputation apart from coin a rather silly
>phrase?

Information Superhighway is not a silly phrase. Here is what Jason Lanier said about
it in the WP, Ap 21, 99:
[[ His "Information Superhighway" metaphor is brilliant and has played a


significant role in guiding the balance between government and
industry in creating the marvelous explosion of creativity and wealth
the country has enjoyed as a result of the Net. As was the case with
the physical highway system championed by Mr. Gore's father, the
government role in the information economy has been crucial.
Lest anyone forget, the Internet came into existence through

government initiative.]]

It is not a matter of what Gore did for the "internet's reputation". It is what he
did for the internet. :-)

To say that an 'interent' existed before Gore expanded it, is a stretch. Almost
everythign we call the internet was produced as a result of his bills.

See http://Gore_In_Context.tripod.com/internet.html


Diogenes
---

>>We might consider though, that without Al Gore's contribution,
>>the technology that Vint Cerf developed would not have been more
>>than interesting reading material for techies. After all, the
>>ARPANET became an IP network *long* before The Internet became
>>a household word. Al Gore's attention made it a household word.
>>
>> Floyd
>>
>>>>Vinton G Cerf , a senior vice president at MCI Worldcom is often
>>>>called the "father of the Internet" for his part in designing the
>>>>common computer language of the network. He said, "I think it is very
>>>>fair to say that the Internet would not be where it is in the US
>>>>without the strong support given to it and related research areas by
>>>>the vice president in his current role and his earlier role as
>>>>senator".
>>>>
>>>>Katy Hafner who co-authored a book about the history of the online
>>>>world, said that people have been haggling over the true beginnings of
>>>>the Internet for decades. "As we all know, there are many paternity
>>>>claims on the Internet. That's a given, because it's so successful.
>>>>But there are so many people who did at least ONE pivotal thing in
>>>>either creating the network, or encouraging the use of the network, or
>>>>bringing the network to the public...and Al Gore was one of those
>>>>people."
>>>

*************************************************

Gore_In_Conte...@no-spam.com

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 1:48:50 AM9/3/00
to
On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 04:47:18 GMT, j...@visi.com (J. Otto Tennant) wrote:

>q...@crazedgopher.edu (Quinn Penn) writes:
>
>>Could you computer people help us political folks? The below quotes
>>are being tossed about to prove that Al Gore was indeed instrumental
>>in bringing about the Internet.
>
>>What is the truth? Is Algore The Father of the Internet?
>
>Yup. There is no doubt about it. Algore and Tipper are also the models
>for _Love Story_.

Gore was, she wasn't. Gore said, "All I know is that's what Segal told some reporters
in Tennessee." Gore expressed scepticism about a newpaper story. He was quoted as
having made the claim himself. In fact the story was mostly correct.

/snip/
> Algore discovered "Love Canal."

He looked for towns that had been declared disaster areas for toxic waste spills, and
found that Love Canal had been so declared. He was holding hearings on the issue and
wanted an example.

http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4028284,00.html
No nose for the truth
Inside America
The US elections: special report
Harold Evans
Monday June 12, 2000
The Guardian
The question of the day is who has Pinocchio's nose, the one that grows longer with
every lie he tells. Jim Nicholson, chairman of the Republican National Committee, is
trying to graft the nose on Al Gore and Rupert Murdoch's New York Post has been
foremost in obliging. More or less every day, it runs a caricature of Al with Nose in
a sequence of scoreboxes, each purporting to document "Al's Lies". By Saturday, they
were up to No 14.
Nicholson's rhinoplasty is as deft as a blindfold party kid trying to pin a tail on a
donkey. You would not expect a Bush campaigner to be fastidious about fib and fact,
and the New York Post makes no pretence of being impartial, but what is surprising is
how Nicholson's faxes have infiltrated coverage in mainstream press and television.
Its editors and writers would blanch at the suggestion that they are recycling
Republican propaganda. That is how it seems to the Democrats, but the paranoia is
misplaced. What is happening is professional deformation.
The American press gets locked into Story Mode Syndrome (SMS) much more than the more
varied, more cantankerous British press; and then awkward facts that would spoil a
story line are flotsam on a surging tide. Now everyone is busy parsing Gore as a
self-aggrandising liar. With the speed and proliferation of media in the electronic
age, the old standards of checking have lapsed. By three or four news cycles, a minor
piece of misreporting can incrementally morph into a monster, and checking its
genealogy is like trekking back to the source of the Zambesi. Bring the snake bite
serum for the following four.
1. The internet.
Everyone in America knows that Gore claimed to have invented the internet. Only he
never did make that claim. "Invention" suggests a solo effort in a laboratory. What
Gore said was different: "During my service in the United States Congress I took the
initiative in creating the internet". Gore was indeed in the forefront of legislative


initiatives to create the internet. Columbia University's James Traub, who chaired
the computer science and telecommunications board, says: "Al Gore was perhaps the
first political leader to grasp the importance of networking the country . . . At the
time he was a senator from a fairly small south-eastern state and I was amazed at his
national vision." Gore followed through in eight years as vice-president; back then,
the mockery was for talking about some nonsense called "an information superhighway".

Those who reported Gore as claiming invention might argue they were paraphrasing. But
the media echo chamber guarantees further distortion. "Vice-President Gore tells a
reporter the internet was his idea. Nice try, Al." (Wired magazine)
2. Love Story.
The Boston Globe's Walter Robinson and Ann Scales attacked Gore's veracity: "He has
also said that he and his wife, Tipper, were the models for the movie Love Story,
only to be contradicted by the author, Erich Segal." Their source was Time magazine.
Trouble is, Gore never made that claim and Segal never contradicted him. Chatting on
the press plane about movies for a couple of hours, Gore had simply remarked to two
Time magazine writers on a newspaper interview in which Segal had described Al and
Tipper as his models for the movie. True. The Tennessean did so report, but it
misquoted Segal, who had told the reporter he based only the male in the movie on
Gore. So Segal's "contradiction" was a correction for a newspaper, not Gore. Segal
noted: "Al attributed it to a newspaper. Time thought it was more piquant to leave
that out." End of story? Not a bit. Heavyweight commentators seized on Love Story to
lash Gore for "inflating his past", "bragging" and "prevaricating".
3. The farm boy.
"My father taught me how to clear land with a doubleheaded axe . . . how to plough a
steep hillside with a team of mules." Nicholson faxed the celebrity press corps that
Gore was lying because he was really brought up in the posh Fairfax Hotel in
Washington. In fact, as even critical biographers confirm, Gore's Dad did make him
spend long tough summers doing backbreaking chores on the family farm.
4. The Love Canal.
Visiting Concord High School in New Hampshire, Gore urged the students not to be
cynical about politics. He said he had been stimulated to hold hearings on toxic
waste at Toone, Tennessee, and the Love Canal, New York, by a letter from a high
school student. "It all happened because one high school student got involved." The
Washington Post and the the Washington Times turned that into Gore saying: "I was the
one that started it all." It continues to be recycled as a "typical" Al Gore lie.
Yes, there is a nose that is getting longer every day but it doesn't belong to Gore .
. .
© Copyright Guardian Media Group plc. 2000/////

Floyd Davidson

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 1:29:34 AM9/3/00
to
diony...@hotmail.com (dionysus) wrote:
>>If you ask a bunch of political types, the answer is Al Gore,
>>who took the lead in developing the political aspects required
>>to allow the Interent to become what we know it as today.
>>
>Being a foreigner, please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly did Al
>Gore do for the internet's reputation apart from coin a rather silly
>phrase?

Money.

He was basically responsible for introducing key legislation and
guiding Internet projects through the US Congress. He did that
at a time when most Congress critters had *no* idea what the
significance was. He did that at a time when virtually the
entire telecommunications industry had *no* idea what the
Internet was. Well actually, he did that at a time when hardly
*anyone* had any idea what it was! (Al Gore's legislation is
what changed the ARPANET to the NFSnet and caused it to become
known as The Internet too.)

Unless you are a very unusual Internet user today, you probably
did not know what the Internet was when Al Gore began working to
make it what you know it to be today.

But another significant fact is that until Gore was nominated to
run as Clinton's VP, hardly anyone knew that Al Gore had been
aware of the Internet. The term "Information Highway" wasn't
really Al Gore's doing, but he did pick up on it and made it
well known. But that came relatively late in his work on
funding the Internet.

Note that Al Gore has never claimed to have invented internet
technology, and has never said he is the "Father of the Internet".
What he did say can be interpreted in more than one way though,
and certainly his political opponents can claim it has the worst
possible meaning while his supporters can claim it has the best
possible meaning. Here is what he said:

"During my service in the United States Congress,
I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

One way of looking at that is he is claiming to have created the
Internet, and another way is that of all the people who helped
create it, he is the Congress person who took the initiative
required. The former is clearly not true, and the later clearly
is true.

What gets tossed around though is that he coined the term
"Information Highway". He didn't coin it, but he did use it
in a speech in 1990. However, he had been working on funding
various visions of the Internet for more than five years by
that time!

Here is an interesting URL with some history of Congressional
actions that affected Internet development.

<http://brie.berkeley.edu/~briewww/pubs/wp/wp60>

"The Building of the Internet: Implications for the Future of
Broadband Networks" August 1992, by Jeffrey A. Hart,Robert
R. Reed, and Francois Bar.

>>We might consider though, that without Al Gore's contribution,
>>the technology that Vint Cerf developed would not have been
>>more than interesting reading material for techies. After
>>all, the ARPANET became an IP network *long* before The
>>Internet became a household word. Al Gore's attention made it
>>a household word.
>>
>> Floyd
>>
>>>>Vinton G Cerf , a senior vice president at MCI Worldcom is
>>>>often called the "father of the Internet" for his part in
>>>>designing the common computer language of the network. He
>>>>said, "I think it is very fair to say that the Internet
>>>>would not be where it is in the US without the strong
>>>>support given to it and related research areas by the vice
>>>>president in his current role and his earlier role as
>>>>senator".

Note that, as the above quote from Vinton Cerf indicates, he is
quite willing to credit Gore with a great deal of what it took
to make the Internet what it is today. Note that he points out
that Gore's role began previous to his current position as Vice
President too.

>>>>Katy Hafner who co-authored a book about the history of the
>>>>online world, said that people have been haggling over the
>>>>true beginnings of the Internet for decades. "As we all
>>>>know, there are many paternity claims on the Internet.
>>>>That's a given, because it's so successful. But there are
>>>>so many people who did at least ONE pivotal thing in either
>>>>creating the network, or encouraging the use of the network,
>>>>or bringing the network to the public...and Al Gore was one
>>>>of those people."

The late Jon Postel is also called the "Father of the Internet"
by some. Hardly anyone ever heard of Jon Postel...

Floyd

Floyd Davidson

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 1:47:50 AM9/3/00
to
j...@visi.com (J. Otto Tennant) wrote:
>q...@crazedgopher.edu (Quinn Penn) writes:
>
>>Could you computer people help us political folks? The below quotes
>>are being tossed about to prove that Al Gore was indeed instrumental
>>in bringing about the Internet.
>
>>What is the truth? Is Algore The Father of the Internet?
>
>Yup. There is no doubt about it. Algore and Tipper are also the models
>for _Love Story_. (By the way, is "Tipper" her real UID? or just her
>effective UID?) Algore discovered "Love Canal."
>
>Excuse me, but are you serious?

He is. You should try it sometime.

Bill Bonde

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 2:24:28 AM9/3/00
to

Gore_In_Conte...@no-spam.com wrote:
>
> On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 03:09:09 GMT, diony...@hotmail.com (dionysus) wrote:
>
> >
> >>If you ask a bunch of political types, the answer is Al Gore,
> >>who took the lead in developing the political aspects required
> >>to allow the Interent to become what we know it as today.
> >>
> >Being a foreigner, please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly did Al
> >Gore do for the internet's reputation apart from coin a rather silly
> >phrase?
>
> Information Superhighway is not a silly phrase.
>

I didn't even know that Gore came up with that. I have ALWAYS hated it.
Did he come up with 'surfing the internet' too? I hate that stupid term.
Geez.

> Here is what Jason Lanier said about
> it in the WP, Ap 21, 99:
> [[ His "Information Superhighway" metaphor is brilliant and has played a
> significant role in guiding the balance between government and
> industry in creating the marvelous explosion of creativity and wealth
> the country has enjoyed as a result of the Net.
>

Notice how he uses the term 'net'. That is correct. That is what people
who know how to talk use.


> As was the case with
> the physical highway system championed by Mr. Gore's father, the
> government role in the information economy has been crucial.
> Lest anyone forget, the Internet came into existence through
> government initiative.]]
>

But not Gore's initiative. He's part of the group that brought us the
Assholes On Line.


> It is not a matter of what Gore did for the "internet's reputation". It is what he
> did for the internet. :-)
>
> To say that an 'interent' existed before Gore expanded it, is a stretch. Almost
> everythign we call the internet was produced as a result of his bills.
>

Did Gore create usenet? No. Did Gore create the Web? No. Don't lie to
us, we know the truth.

Alexander Viro

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 2:39:41 AM9/3/00
to
In article <39b7e258...@news.sonic.net>,
<Gore_In_Conte...@no-spam.com> wrote:

>To say that an 'interent' existed before Gore expanded it, is a stretch. Almost
>everythign we call the internet was produced as a result of his bills.

Like, say it, TCP/IP, right? Or mail system. Or USENET, for that matter.
Wow. Never knew that US Congress had a time machine and could pass the bills
back in time.

*plonk*

--
"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!"
"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.

Sjoerd Langkemper

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 7:54:03 AM9/3/00
to

"Floyd Davidson" <fl...@ptialaska.net> schreef in bericht
news:8766oer...@barrow.com...

> diony...@hotmail.com (dionysus) wrote:
> >>If you ask a bunch of political types, the answer is Al Gore,
> >>who took the lead in developing the political aspects required
> >>to allow the Interent to become what we know it as today.
> >>
> >Being a foreigner, please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly did Al
> >Gore do for the internet's reputation apart from coin a rather silly
> >phrase?
>
> Money.
>
> He was basically responsible for introducing key legislation and
> guiding Internet projects through the US Congress. He did that
> at a time when most Congress critters had *no* idea what the
> significance was. He did that at a time when virtually the
> entire telecommunications industry had *no* idea what the
> Internet was. Well actually, he did that at a time when hardly
> *anyone* had any idea what it was! (Al Gore's legislation is
> what changed the ARPANET to the NFSnet and caused it to become
> known as The Internet too.)
<cut>

Tell me if I'm wrong but to me it looks stupid to spend money to something
where nobody ever heard off.

Sjoerd


Sjoerd Langkemper

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 7:55:23 AM9/3/00
to
I don't know how fast your internet uplink is, but I won't call it a
superhighway.

Sjoerd


Floyd Davidson

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 5:42:44 AM9/3/00
to
vi...@weyl.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) wrote:
>In article <39b7e258...@news.sonic.net>,
> <Gore_In_Conte...@no-spam.com> wrote:
>
>>To say that an 'interent' existed before Gore expanded it, is a stretch. Almost
>>everythign we call the internet was produced as a result of his bills.
>
> Like, say it, TCP/IP, right? Or mail system. Or USENET, for that matter.
>Wow. Never knew that US Congress had a time machine and could pass the bills
>back in time.
>
>*plonk*

At the time Al Gore began working on legislation to effect The
Internet, Usenet did not even use IP for transport. And it
never would have to anything like the degree to which it does
today if Gore had not funded NSFnet and then worked on the
agreements that led to UUNET, PSI, and Sprint being able to
resell Internet access to *anyone*. And of course then total
privitization of The Internet.

The point is that The Internet, much like the PSTN (Public
Switched Telephone Network) is not just a set of technologies.
It is also a legal environment that regulates who, what, when
and where those technologies will be implemented and used.

It might do well to remember that TCP was first described in
1974 and IP in 1978, but virtually nobody ever heard of them
until Al Gore's legislation was passed in 1986. He didn't
"invent" the technologies, but he certainly had a large hand in
the invention of The Internet.

dionysus

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 9:57:49 AM9/3/00
to
On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 05:44:01 GMT,
Gore_In_Conte...@no-spam.com wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 03:09:09 GMT, diony...@hotmail.com (dionysus) wrote:
>
>>
>>>If you ask a bunch of political types, the answer is Al Gore,
>>>who took the lead in developing the political aspects required
>>>to allow the Interent to become what we know it as today.
>>>
>>Being a foreigner, please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly did Al
>>Gore do for the internet's reputation apart from coin a rather silly
>>phrase?
>
>Information Superhighway is not a silly phrase. Here is what Jason Lanier said about
>it in the WP, Ap 21, 99:
>[[ His "Information Superhighway" metaphor is brilliant and has played a
>significant role in guiding the balance between government and
>industry in creating the marvelous explosion of creativity and wealth
>the country has enjoyed as a result of the Net. As was the case with
>the physical highway system championed by Mr. Gore's father, the
>government role in the information economy has been crucial.
>Lest anyone forget, the Internet came into existence through
>government initiative.]]

and for all that it still manages to sound rather stupid off the
tongue. pity.
><snip>

gr...@apple2.com.invalid

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 9:12:29 AM9/3/00
to
In article <39b7e258...@news.sonic.net>,
Gore_In...@tripod.com wrote:

> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,talk.politics.misc,alt.os.linux

Ah, another lesson in why folklore and politics don't mix?

> To say that an 'interent' existed before Gore expanded it, is a
> stretch. Almost everythign we call the internet was produced as a
> result of his bills.

And this is a good thing? I for one would be happy to go back to an
Internet pre-Veep Gore. Back to the days when every new user was both
willing and able to learn, and peer pressure exerted by experienced
users upon newbies actually worked. Back when the most serious net
abuse one could expect was an e-mail bomb.

--
__ _____________ __
\ \_\ \__ __/ /_/ / <http://www.war-of-the-worlds.org/>
.\ __ \ | | / __ /----------------------------------------------------
^ \_\ \_\|_|/_/ /_/ Don't mail me, I'll mail you.

Jay Maynard

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 9:52:49 AM9/3/00
to
On 03 Sep 2000 01:08:48 -0800, Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
>Apparently the truth escapes some. Al Gore is just about as
>much the creator of The Internet as any other individual.

That's the point, though: No one person created the Internet. I'd go so far
as to say that no hundred people created the Internet.

Failing to realize that is what makes Gore's claim so thoroughly laughable.

Jay Maynard

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 9:56:25 AM9/3/00
to
On 02 Sep 2000 21:29:34 -0800, Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
> "During my service in the United States Congress,
> I took the initiative in creating the Internet."
>One way of looking at that is he is claiming to have created the
>Internet, and another way is that of all the people who helped
>create it, he is the Congress person who took the initiative
>required. The former is clearly not true, and the later clearly
>is true.

You should go to work as a political spin doctor. You're a natural.

Only a tortured reading of Gore's words can be assigned the latter meaning.
A plain English reading can only honestly be assigned the former. The
former meaning is laughable to those who understand just what it took to
create the Internet.

Mike Meredith at home

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 8:06:02 PM9/3/00
to
In article <773408232...@kruskcontrol.ru>,
ho...@underice.ru (Hook) writes:
> * The Internet does not need fat lazy dudes in orange vests
> standing around near it leaning on shovels shoving donuts in
> their faces while they are supposed to be pretending they
> are turning potholes into bumps.

Really ? Every time work's Internet connection gets
upgraded/repaired, we have a bunch of guys that sound
suspiciously like the above. Funnily enough the guys who break
work's Internet connection from time to time look very similar
...

Floyd Davidson

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 1:09:37 PM9/3/00
to
"Sjoerd Langkemper" <s.lang...@chello.nl> wrote:
>"Floyd Davidson" <fl...@ptialaska.net>:

>> diony...@hotmail.com (dionysus) wrote:
>> >>
>> >Being a foreigner, please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly did Al
>> >Gore do for the internet's reputation apart from coin a rather silly
>> >phrase?
>>
>> Money.
>>
>> He was basically responsible for introducing key legislation and
>> guiding Internet projects through the US Congress. He did that
>> at a time when most Congress critters had *no* idea what the
>> significance was. He did that at a time when virtually the
>> entire telecommunications industry had *no* idea what the
>> Internet was. Well actually, he did that at a time when hardly
>> *anyone* had any idea what it was! (Al Gore's legislation is
>> what changed the ARPANET to the NFSnet and caused it to become
>> known as The Internet too.)
><cut>
>
>Tell me if I'm wrong but to me it looks stupid to spend money to something
>where nobody ever heard off.

In this instance at least, you are clearly wrong. Give it some
thought, and be glad that money is spent on R&D every day,
exploring things that "nobody ever heard of".

Gore_In_Conte...@no-spam.com

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 1:50:06 PM9/3/00
to
On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 13:12:29 GMT, gr...@apple2.com.invalid wrote:

>In article <39b7e258...@news.sonic.net>,
>Gore_In...@tripod.com wrote:
>
>> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,talk.politics.misc,alt.os.linux
>
>Ah, another lesson in why folklore and politics don't mix?
>
>> To say that an 'interent' existed before Gore expanded it, is a
>> stretch. Almost everythign we call the internet was produced as a
>> result of his bills.
>
>And this is a good thing? I for one would be happy to go back to an
>Internet pre-Veep Gore.

Pre-1992? How about pre-Congressman Gore? Before Gore's 1986 "Supercomputer Network
Study Act" or whatever it was called.


> Back to the days when every new user was both
>willing and able to learn, and peer pressure exerted by experienced
>users upon newbies actually worked. Back when the most serious net
>abuse one could expect was an e-mail bomb.

Before Gore took the initiative among Congressmen of his term, there WERE no users
outside military, iirc. Maybe a very few on mainframes at MIT.

See http://Gore_In_Context.internet.html

Diogenes

Floyd Davidson

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 1:14:04 PM9/3/00
to

Jay you are a well known distortionist. :-) But you have always been
far too crude to work as a "spin doctor". It might sell to boneheads,
but not to anyone else.

In plain English, including the context of the statement, there is
little doubt that in NO WAY did he mean the former.

Ian Stirling

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 2:05:37 PM9/3/00
to
Hook <ho...@underice.ru> wrote:
>> His [ Al Gore's ] "Information Superhighway" metaphor is brilliant

>The Super Highway metaphor is severely flawed:
<snip>


>* The Internet does not need fat lazy dudes in orange vests
> standing around near it leaning on shovels shoving donuts in
> their faces while they are supposed to be pretending they
> are turning potholes into bumps.

Depending on your ISP, they may well be there though.
(Not to mention the numerous cases of chopped data cables.)

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inqui...@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
"I am the Emperor, and I want dumplings." - Austrian Emperor, Ferdinand I.

Floyd Davidson

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 1:32:47 PM9/3/00
to

Jay, get real.

"During my service in the United States Congress,
I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

He did not say he invented the Internet. He said that he is the
one in Congress who took the inititative. That is absolutely a
true statement. No other Congressperson shared that initiative
either.

You and I (and many others who read and/or post to
alt.folklore.computers were using the Internet before Gore made
it a household word, but what percentage of those reading this
in talk.politics.misc had even heard of TCP/IP until Gore ran
for VP? How many of them, even then, had access until after
1995? Perhaps 90% of what the Internet is today, is because of
Al Gore. That is true even if you are not part of that 90%.

Floyd Davidson

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 1:24:10 PM9/3/00
to
lwi...@bbs.cpcn.com (lwin) wrote:
>> Reality check. Gore is a lawyer by trade, and a politician by chioce
>> -- so, like what do you think! Granted his SuperComputer Network Act
>> of 1986 suggested that a "net" might be a good idea. However, I was
>> "chatting" with folks around the world via the Source and later with
>> CompuServe as far back as 1983 -- and this on a 1200 bps modem!
>
>So what?
>
>The community of 'talkers' back then was very limited. The
>Internet's crowning achievement is linking lots of computers
>everywhere in a unified standard at an affordable cost.

We might note also that CompuServe is *not* what evolved into
a worldwide network with millions of computers and many tens of
millions of users.

Al Gore's vision of The Internet did.

>> You "political folks" should take a
>> science course or two -- perhaps then you'd know how silly the
>> question is regarding Gore's role in the deployment of the internet..
>
>Others have already explained how the enviromental climate was
>necessary for the technology to take root and become widespread.

One might also note that the most techie of all the techies
involved, Vinton Cerf, allows that Al Gore is indeed due some
great amount of credit. And, he says that by 1988 he had
realized that The Internet could not realize his vision of what
it should be if it remained entirely a government funded
network. We might note that Cerf may have invented the
technology, but he pointedly says it was not viable in the
context that he worked with it. What he credits Al Gore with
doing is exactly what allowed that technology to be enabled.

Just consider the alternatives... we could all be using what?
Compuserve? Tymnet? and maybe dozens of other similar distinctly
less useful network protocols.

Thomas Andrews

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 2:37:32 PM9/3/00
to

I wonder if people would still be objecting of Gore had said:

"As a member of Congress, I took the legislative initiative in
creating the internet."

It's almost exactly the same sentence - the word "legislative" is
redundant with "as a member of Congress" - but it would be harder
to snip and misrepresent.

--
Thomas Andrews tho...@best.com http://www.best.com/~thomaso/
"What's a man like me supposed to do,
With all this extra savoir-faire?" - TMBG

Chris Hedley

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 3:03:08 PM9/3/00
to
In article <a1puo8.91q.ln@lucifer>,

I'm still frankly suspicious of this newfangled "internet" malarkey,
if we'd stuck with good ol' X.25 things'd be much better. In my day
we were happy with- [cont p.94]

Chris.

Bill Bonde

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 3:10:42 PM9/3/00
to

Floyd Davidson wrote:
>
> jmay...@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote:
> >On 03 Sep 2000 01:08:48 -0800, Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
> >>Apparently the truth escapes some. Al Gore is just about as
> >>much the creator of The Internet as any other individual.
> >
> >That's the point, though: No one person created the Internet. I'd go so far
> >as to say that no hundred people created the Internet.
> >
> >Failing to realize that is what makes Gore's claim so thoroughly laughable.
>
> Jay, get real.
>
> "During my service in the United States Congress,
> I took the initiative in creating the Internet."
>
> He did not say he invented the Internet. He said that he is the
> one in Congress who took the inititative. That is absolutely a
> true statement. No other Congressperson shared that initiative
> either.
>
> You and I (and many others who read and/or post to
> alt.folklore.computers were using the Internet before Gore made
> it a household word, but what percentage of those reading this
> in talk.politics.misc had even heard of TCP/IP until Gore ran
> for VP?
>

I knew about it. Gore claimed to have taken the initiative in creating
the Internet. That is way over the top.

Bill Bonde

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 3:17:31 PM9/3/00
to

Loren Petrich wrote:
>
> In article <39B1EE9C...@mail.com>, Bill Bonde <std...@mail.com> wrote:


> >Gore_In_Conte...@no-spam.com wrote:
>
> >> As was the case with
> >> the physical highway system championed by Mr. Gore's father, the
> >> government role in the information economy has been crucial.
> >> Lest anyone forget, the Internet came into existence through
> >> government initiative.]]
> >But not Gore's initiative. He's part of the group that brought us the
> >Assholes On Line.
>

> And how did that happen?
>
The way in which the private sector was brought into the Internet
brought us the likes of AOL. You know, that group of child
pornographers, thieves and low lifes that made it impossible for normal
people to sell products online by just sending checks back and forth.


> And I'm surprised that Mr. Bonde is not defending AOL as an
> organization that is exempt from all the rules that he believes ought to
> govern all ordinary citizens -- which is what he seems to believe about
> those who run businesses.
>
When have I said that? I support some level of sanction against
Microsoft for their illegal actions. Why should I like AOL?


> >> To say that an 'interent' existed before Gore expanded it, is a stretch. Almost
> >> everythign we call the internet was produced as a result of his bills.
> >Did Gore create usenet? No. Did Gore create the Web? No. Don't lie to
> >us, we know the truth.
>

> However, he was responsible for funding its early infrastructure.
>
Gore paid for the early internet infrastructure? The truth is that the
person's claim is wrong. Gore didn't even create usenet that thing that
some of us are communicating with now.

Bill Bonde

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 3:12:22 PM9/3/00
to

Gore_In_Conte...@no-spam.com wrote:
>
> Take a look at what Gore really did to make our Internet possible. He wrote and
> pushed the bills which allowed it to happen.
>
> http://Gore_In_Context.tripod.com/internet.html
>
> All he claimed was that he led the Congressmen of his term during its creation. This
> is true.
>
Actually, he claimed far more than that. I don't know why you think that
the current version of the internet is the only internet that ever
existed.

Floyd Davidson

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 3:29:01 PM9/3/00
to
vi...@weyl.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) wrote:
>Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
>>
>>Apparently the truth escapes some. Al Gore is just about as
>>much the creator of The Internet as any other individual. He is
>>the one member of Congress that had the vision to see what it
>>could be, and *fund* it while also setting up the legal
>>environment necessary for it to exist. If he had not, then IP
>>and HTTP would be things that roughly a million or two techies
>>would all know about, and the other dozens of millions of people
>>who know about them today would never had heard of them.
>
>Apparently, Gore isn't one of those dozens of millions.

You are saying Gore has never heard of IP or HTTP? Are you daft?

>"Open source webpage", anyone? Simple experiment for
>talk.politics folks: go to _any_ webpage and ask your browser
>to show the source.

How is being able to see the source to a web page linked in
any way to the phrase "Open source webpage"??? You can read
a lot of books too, and they are still very much copyrighted
material. So are many web page source listings that your
browser will allow you to read.

Your experiment is nonsense.

>Simple thought experiment: assume the somebody took a copy of
>Gore's page, modified it and put it for public access. Predict
>the reaction.

So? Copyright violations are against the law. Do you have
any concept of what a copyright is?

>Exercise: find definition of Open Source, read it and draw your
>conclusions.

It isn't what you seem to think it is.

>Another exercise: try to imagine the laughter on the net that
>followed Gore's playing with buzzwords.

How about the giggling following _your_ attempt above!

>"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!"
>"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.

We probably should also note that your attribution is incorrect.
Dilbert did NOT say that, which is what you are claiming. In fact
it was from a "Dilbert Cartoon". See the difference?

Ian Stirling

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 4:37:47 PM9/3/00
to
Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
>jmay...@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote:
>>On 03 Sep 2000 01:08:48 -0800, Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
>>>Apparently the truth escapes some. Al Gore is just about as
>>>much the creator of The Internet as any other individual.
>>
>>That's the point, though: No one person created the Internet. I'd go so far
>>as to say that no hundred people created the Internet.
>>
>>Failing to realize that is what makes Gore's claim so thoroughly laughable.

>Jay, get real.

> "During my service in the United States Congress,
> I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

Putting other words in someones mouth

"During my years as president, I took the initiative in creating the
apollo program"

He diddn't invent rocketry, or directly participate, either, before,
any lunar programs were strictly of the paper type, and unfunded,
existing as dreams from those involved in missile research, but
not having a concrete form.

Without that particular initiative, the evenutal manned landings on
the moon would have taken quite different form, even if it was eventually
the US that landed.

>He did not say he invented the Internet. He said that he is the
>one in Congress who took the inititative. That is absolutely a
>true statement. No other Congressperson shared that initiative
>either.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inqui...@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------

Two parrots sitting on a perch. One asks the other, "Can you smell fish?"

Floyd Davidson

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 4:05:15 PM9/3/00
to
Bill Bonde <std...@mail.com> wrote:

>Floyd Davidson wrote:
>> "During my service in the United States Congress,
>> I took the initiative in creating the Internet."
>>
>> He did not say he invented the Internet. He said that he is the
>> one in Congress who took the inititative. That is absolutely a
>> true statement. No other Congressperson shared that initiative
>> either.
>>
>> You and I (and many others who read and/or post to
>> alt.folklore.computers were using the Internet before Gore made
>> it a household word, but what percentage of those reading this
>> in talk.politics.misc had even heard of TCP/IP until Gore ran
>> for VP?
>>
>I knew about it. Gore claimed to have taken the initiative in creating
>the Internet. That is way over the top.

And just who were the other Congress critters who also took
some initiative? Name one.

Alexander Viro

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 4:57:07 PM9/3/00
to
In article <87em31p...@barrow.com>,
Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
>vi...@weyl.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) wrote:

>>"Open source webpage", anyone? Simple experiment for
>>talk.politics folks: go to _any_ webpage and ask your browser
>>to show the source.
>
>How is being able to see the source to a web page linked in
>any way to the phrase "Open source webpage"??? You can read
>a lot of books too, and they are still very much copyrighted
>material. So are many web page source listings that your
>browser will allow you to read.

Many? Make it _all_ - rendering happens on the client side.

>Your experiment is nonsense.

>>Simple thought experiment: assume the somebody took a copy of
>>Gore's page, modified it and put it for public access. Predict
>>the reaction.
>
>So? Copyright violations are against the law. Do you have
>any concept of what a copyright is?

Sure I do. The little problem, though, is that Open Source implies
pretty specific kind of license. And I quite agree with you, using it
for a webpage would be a total nonsense.

Go and find the legal definition. Read it. Notice that one of the
requirements is that license must allow redistribution with any
modifications.

Now, care to translate Gore's babbling about his website being "Open Source"
into plain English? "Source is available" doesn't cut it - see above.
"You can modify and redistribute" _obviously_ is not true. IIRC, his
attempts to spin it (when the laughter came) were along the lines of
"We would be glad to hear your suggestions on potential improvements".
Officially, so would Microsoft, when it comes to suggestions on potential
improvements to any of their products.

If you can come with a plausible interpretation different from
* Gore was not aware that HTML _is_ the source, or
* Gore used a buzzword without any idea of its meaning
I would be very impressed.

Frankly, I find your utter lack of personal integrity rather amusing
(as in "oh, look - this freak got three legs"). Let's see what else
you can come up with. So far it was not too boring...

--

Bill Bonde

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 5:15:20 PM9/3/00
to

The Internet already existed at this point. You can't take initiative to
create something that is already here. In any case, there were plenty of
congressmen who voted for these bills or they would not be law.

Jay Maynard

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 5:43:52 PM9/3/00
to
On 03 Sep 2000 09:32:47 -0800, Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
> "During my service in the United States Congress,
> I took the initiative in creating the Internet."
>He did not say he invented the Internet. He said that he is the
>one in Congress who took the inititative. That is absolutely a
>true statement. No other Congressperson shared that initiative
>either.

Your absurd insistence on limiting the possible contenders to those serving
in Congress during Gore's tenure there is why this is nothing but spin
control.

If you examine that sentence from the rules of English, you'll notice that
the first part is a dependent clause, used to explain or amplify the basic
meaning of the sentence of which it is a part. The part you appear to be
willfully ignoring is that there's nothing in that sentence that limits
Gore's claim to the legislative arena. He could just as easily have been
working on it in his copious free time.

The meat of the sentence is in the independent clause, the part you have
written on the second line of your quotation. Here, Gore claims that he took
the initiative in creating the Internet. This totally ignores the
contributions of literally thousands of people down in the trenches who were
doing the real work of building hardware and designing protocols and writing
software...you know, the things that made the Internet possible at all.
Creating it.

Now, if Gore had said that "I took the initiative in funding the Internet",
I would have no argument with his statement at all. As it stands, however,
it's so far out in left field, and so true to the standard politician trick
of claiming credit for things that he didn't do, that it's nothing but
laughable - it's so obviously false that it's not even insulting.

John Galt

unread,
Sep 3, 2000, 6:21:51 PM9/3/00
to
Floyd Davidson wrote:

> >Yup. There is no doubt about it. Algore and Tipper are also the models
> >for _Love Story_. (By the way, is "Tipper" her real UID? or just her
> >effective UID?) Algore discovered "Love Canal."

The _Celebrity Who's Who_ says he is married to a woman named Mary Elizabeth
Aitcheson


Karri Kalpio

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 4:20:48 AM9/5/00
to
Mark Hohn <ho...@earthlink.net> writes:

> Gore said he invented the internet. Gore said him and his wife were what love
> story was based on. Gore looking at Picture of George Washington once asked
> "WHO is that?" Now I agree those aren't important issues, but they did
> happen.

No, he didn't.

No, he didn't.

No, he didn't.

Now, can we discuss about real topics and forget the BS? Yes, I know
we can't. People just don't bother to check out what they are talking
about... Sometimes[1] I hope that Mr. Gore hadn't "taken the initiative"
to help to make internet a public playground. Internet users were so
much more informed when internet was mostly an academic thing...

--k

[1] Actually, nowadays, most of the time...

--
/"\ : Karri Kalpio
\ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign : ka...@moremagic.com
X Against HTML Mail : [+358] (40) 5926895 (mobile)
/ \ : [+358] (9) 75111771 (work)

Chris Hedley

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Sep 5, 2000, 4:56:00 AM9/5/00
to
In article <87k8crz...@batcave.moremagic.com>,

Karri Kalpio <ka...@batcave.moremagic.com> writes:
> Now, can we discuss about real topics and forget the BS? Yes, I know
> we can't. People just don't bother to check out what they are talking
> about... Sometimes[1] I hope that Mr. Gore hadn't "taken the initiative"
> to help to make internet a public playground. Internet users were so
> much more informed when internet was mostly an academic thing...

This is all nice and groovy, but could we keep US politics on US politics
newsgroups, please? I'm not sure where this all started, but the link to
alt.folklore.computers is becoming increasingly tenuous IMHO...

Chris.

gr...@apple2.com.invalid

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 5:18:49 AM9/5/00
to
In alt.folklore.computers,
in article <39b58e9a...@news.sonic.net>,
Gore_In...@tripod.com wrote:

> See http://Gore_In_Context.internet.html

As soon as the top level domain ".html" becomes valid.

Al Gore did not found the Internet. He found the Internet.
There's a difference.

gr...@apple2.com.invalid

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 5:23:28 AM9/5/00
to
In alt.folklore.computers,
in article <39B4232D...@earthlink.net>,
Mark Hohn <ho...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Gore looking at Picture of George Washington once asked
> "WHO is that?"

And to whom did he ask that question? I can see a knowledgeable parent
asking his young child that question. Context is important.

D.J.

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 5:29:01 AM9/5/00
to

Urp.

Sorry, but I haven't been billed for political broadcasts. Can't stand
political adverts by anyone of any party, etc.

[plonk]

JimP.
--
djim55 at tyhe datasync dot com. Disclaimer: Standard.
My Web pages Updated: August 24, 2000:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~djim51/newlnks.html
Registered Linux user#185746

Floyd Davidson

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 5:14:02 AM9/5/00
to
Karri Kalpio <ka...@batcave.moremagic.com> wrote:

>... Sometimes[1] I hope that Mr. Gore hadn't "taken the
>initiative" to help to make internet a public
>playground. Internet users were so much more informed when
>internet was mostly an academic thing...

Ah, yes. That was back in the days when the old timers on
Usenet, when faced with stupid posts, commonly make cracks like
"Well, what else could we expect... from an EDU domain."

Doc

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 6:27:02 AM9/5/00
to
On 5 Sep 2000 08:56:00 GMT, Chris Hedley

<cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>This is all nice and groovy, but could we keep US politics on US politics
>newsgroups, please? I'm not sure where this all started, but the link to
>alt.folklore.computers is becoming increasingly tenuous IMHO...
>

Better yet, they could drop it altogether. It never had *anything* to do
with Linux, and they keep changing the Subject line just enough to evade the
killfile....

--
Doc Shipley
Network Stuff
Austin, Earth

donald tees

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 8:32:38 AM9/5/00
to
This is getting silly. Illegal? What law, pray tell?

I was connected to several networks way back when. I was breaking no laws.

Ron Hunsinger wrote in message ...
>In article
><91E057FD4E69EAE9.A66EE2A9...@lp.airnews.net>,
>jmay...@conmicro.cx wrote:
>
>> Oh? Why, exactly, was legislation necessary? Why would the Internet not
have
>> sprang up as it did without it?
>
>Think about what an ISP does. For a fixed fee, they'll sell you access to a
>network they do not own and did not build. There were many who felt that
>should be illegal. Almost everyone agreed that it was illegal.
>
>The only way to make it legal was to pass legislation making it legal.
>Without that legislation, ISPs would not exist. (Or, if they did, they'd be
>acting only as agents for the nationally funded networks, able to provide
>access only to people who could justify their access to the satisfaction of
>said nationally funded networks.)
>
>The very best alternative we could hope for is a world-wide network
>patterned after the world-wide telephone system. Built by large carries,
>similar to the national phone companies, and billed in much the same way.
>Sure, you could reach a web page in Japan from your home in New Jersey. And
>it would cost you only 75 cents a minute.
>
>How big would The Internet be with that kind of cost barrier? Fortunately,
>we had the key legislation at just the right time to make access completely
>unrestricted (and therefore virtually free).
>
>-Ron Hunsinger


John Varela

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 10:06:25 AM9/5/00
to
On Sun, 3 Sep 2000 23:36:34, tho...@best.com (Thomas Andrews) wrote:

> There was no illegal fund-raiser at the Buddhist temple.

That's right, there was no controlling legal authority.

--
John "or something like that" Varela
for e-mail add a to my user ID

TheCentralSc...@pobox.com

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Sep 5, 2000, 10:32:09 AM9/5/00
to
On Tue, 05 Sep 2000 14:17:10 GMT, Roger Blake <rogg...@inamme.com> wrote:
>
>Frankly all we need to know about your boy Gore is contained in his
>own writings. He's just another big-government-loving, socialistic,
>jackbooted thug.
>
>The creep won't be getting my vote.

Planning on voting for the big-government-loving rightwing
sleeping-with-the-religious-right jackbooted thug?

Peter Seebach

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 12:05:36 PM9/5/00
to
In article <87vgwcm...@barrow.com>,
Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
>10,000 was insignificant. There were 300,000 computers on the
>Internet in 1990. Soon the number was in the millions. The
>explosive growth followed Al Gore's legislative changes to the
>legal environment in which the Internet could operate.

No, the explosive growth stayed on a good old-fashioned exponential curve.

AOL made the internet what it is today. If Al Gore had never done anything,
we would still have roughly the same network, with roughly the same kinds
of things on it.

Now, I'm not a big fan of AOL's level of user education, but it was companies
like AOL, or UUNet, that made the internet change. If the government had
refused to pass any laws, the companies would have done it anyway.

-s
--
Copyright 2000, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / se...@plethora.net
C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
Consulting & Computers: http://www.plethora.net/

Peter Seebach

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 12:06:41 PM9/5/00
to
In article <87n1hpp...@barrow.com>,

Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
> "During my service in the United States Congress,
> I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

Which is total bullshit, because his actions had no effect on *creating*
it. He may have pushed for some changes, but he did not singlehandedly
cause them, and if he'd died before he ever heard of the Internet, nothing
significant would have changed.

Peter Seebach

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 12:08:25 PM9/5/00
to
In article <87snrhn...@barrow.com>,
Floyd Davidson <fl...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
>The Internet that existed at that point was not The Internet that
>existed afterwards. *VERY* different things.

So? The Internet we have today and the Internet we'll have in ten years
are also "*VERY* different things".

Post hoc fallacy. You assume that, because Gore did something around
the time a change you noticed occurred, Gore was involved.

I would argue that the changes in the Internet forced politicians to begin
recognizing it and adapting to it. The Internet took the initiative in
changing Al Gore. :)

>For example, neither
>you nor I would be able to access the previous Internet in the same
>way we do today, by paying a fixed monthly fee to an ISP. It was
>illegal.

And it would have been impossible for companies to just build a for-profit
network? Bullshit.

Peter Seebach

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 12:10:32 PM9/5/00
to
In article <hnsngr-ya0231800...@news.pacbell.net>,

Ron Hunsinger <hns...@sirius.com> wrote:
>The only way to make it legal was to pass legislation making it legal.
>Without that legislation, ISPs would not exist. (Or, if they did, they'd be
>acting only as agents for the nationally funded networks, able to provide
>access only to people who could justify their access to the satisfaction of
>said nationally funded networks.)

Yes. CompuServe did not exist, because it obviously would have been illegal.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. The nationally funded networks were interesting
for research, but if they had been destroyed utterly, we would have built
something indistinguishable from the Internet anyway, because companies had
access to TCP/IP stacks.

Peter Seebach

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Sep 5, 2000, 12:11:56 PM9/5/00
to
In article <MTws5.5400$R87.137370@sjc-read>,
Thomas Andrews <tho...@best.com> wrote:
>I wonder if people would still be objecting of Gore had said:

> "As a member of Congress, I took the legislative initiative in
> creating the internet."

>It's almost exactly the same sentence - the word "legislative" is
>redundant with "as a member of Congress" - but it would be harder
>to snip and misrepresent.

I would, because I don't think his legislation was particularly crucial.
:)

Peter Seebach

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Sep 5, 2000, 12:13:41 PM9/5/00
to
In article <8oudv3$g...@weyl.math.psu.edu>,

Alexander Viro <vi...@weyl.math.psu.edu> wrote:
> * Gore used a buzzword without any idea of its meaning

That was my understanding, given that it had a copyright notice prohibiting
copying.

Oh, and he had the famous bit where there was a thing asking kids to submit
their parents' contact info and/or email addresses for his spam list. ;)

Alexandre Pechtchanski

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Sep 5, 2000, 12:32:50 PM9/5/00
to
On Sun, 03 Sep 2000 11:30:15 -0700, MC Choco <nav...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[ snip ]

>DARPA created it in the 50s. In other words, the Department of
>Defense.

And what, pray, is the sky color on your planet?
In the 50s, indeed. Using postal pigeons, I'm sure.

--
[ When replying, remove *'s from address ]
Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY

H Dziardziel

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Sep 5, 2000, 12:44:52 PM9/5/00
to
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000 15:11:56 -0700 (PDT), q...@crazedgopher.edu (Quinn
Penn) wrote:

>Could you computer people help us political folks? The below quotes
>are being tossed about to prove that Al Gore was indeed instrumental
>in bringing about the Internet.
>
>What is the truth? Is Algore The Father of the Internet?
>
Presumably making Tipper the mother of the pc?

Jay Maynard

unread,
Sep 5, 2000, 12:59:20 PM9/5/00