Mixed shower rooms in college dorms?
Michael Kotler
I've been hearing something that sounds like campus UL material, and I
was wondering if anyone here could confirm or deny. According to
several FOAF-type reports, there are (or were) co-ed college dorms in
the US where the shower facilities are for mixed-sex use.
I am not referring here merely to co-ed restroom facilities, in which
the shower stalls, like the toilets, are individually curtained off.
I'm talking about communal, or "gang" shower rooms -- essentially a
wall or two with a row of showerheads and soapdishes (or stainless
steel columns with water sprays pointed radially) -- that are co-ed at
all times.
Aside from the obvious implications of such a setup, is it really
possible that a modern college or university would even permit such a
thing, let alone have it standard operating procedure? Wouldn't the
parents with daughters storm the housing office with bayonets? Most
curious is how the residents would tolerate it, since most young
people nowadays refuse to shower with members of their _own_ gender.
(For those of you over 30, that gang shower you had to take after
PhysEd in high school and/or jr. high is rapidly becoming a thing of
the past. If a gym teacher required it nowadays, s/he could get
arrested for sexual harrassment of a minor, followed by a lawsuit from
the parents.)
Three schools about which I heard this UL:
-- Antioch in Yellow Springs, OH
-- University of California at Berkeley (as you probably expected <g>)
-- Williams College in Massachussets
(Note to guys: before you start sending applications off to these
schools in droves, keep in mind that most of these reports were from
the 60's and 70's -- if they were true even then.) I also heard this
about some European schools, but given the culture and more
matter-of-fact attitude toward nudity in general, these are more
believable.
One story said that there was a sign on the door to the bathroom with
a movable pointer with standard international "Men" and "Women"
pictograms on either side. Officially, the facility was to only be
used by one gender at a time. But usually, the sign was pointed to a
third position which had both figures or something like "either" or
"orgy" or "Enter at your own risk", etc.. But other stories said that
mixed-sex usage was the regular policy.
The usual description from women who had been through such a co-ed
shower setup was simply that they "hated it" and/or found it "gross".
The word from guys was, surprisingly, not the "heaven" you might
expect, but everything from somewhat uncomfortable to just like any
other shower room, albeit once the novelty wore off. (with overall
feelings of awkwardness from both sides.) There were even reports of
development of sibling-like bonding over the semesters, sometimes to
the point where dating someone from your dorm wing/floor/unit would
actually feel incestuous!
One place where I heard about this was an unlikely UL mill as Pat
Buchanan. In a newspaper column he used to write, he was talking
about how the morals of America's youth are being corrupted, citing
one example as downplaying of differences between the sexes. He then
said "So do our colleges follow this by placing our kids in mixed-sex
dormitories, even mixed shower rooms." Intriguing, but true?
----------------------------------------------------
Michael E. Kotler
mek...@flynns.com
[clear spamfilter before replying]
The return address is really "erols.com". (Er[r]ol Flynn, get it? ;) )
I've had to get creative to foil the spammers.
Scott Hill
mek...@flynns.com (Michael Kotler) writes:
[snip]
> I am not referring here merely to co-ed restroom facilities, in which
> the shower stalls, like the toilets, are individually curtained off.
> I'm talking about communal, or "gang" shower rooms -- essentially a
> wall or two with a row of showerheads and soapdishes (or stainless
> steel columns with water sprays pointed radially) -- that are co-ed at
> all times.
[snip]
> Three schools about which I heard this UL:
[snip]
> -- Williams College in Massachussets
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> (Note to guys: before you start sending applications off to these
> schools in droves, keep in mind that most of these reports were from
> the 60's and 70's -- if they were true even then.)
OK, this is what I know about the arrangements here at Williams. All
"public" dormitory bathrooms are co-ed, as far as I know; there is
usually only one bathroom per floor or per area, making single-sex
bathrooms inconvenient. However, co-ed showers do not really exist.
In my dorm the shower room does have two showers, but this dates back
to the time when Williams was all-male (which was as late as the
'60's), and only one person actually showers at a time in there. The
college does not "endorse" co-ed showering; as proof, there is a dorm
where two rooms share a bathroom (only accessible from inside those
rooms), and those two rooms must have occupants of the same sex, even
though the bathroom is only really big enough for one person at a
time.
The source of this rumor probably comes from Wendy Shalit, a student
of Williams and slightly to the right of Limbaugh (okay, perhaps an
exaggeration :) She wrote a nationally-published article complaining
about the co-ed bathrooms at Williams--i.e. bathrooms that either
gender could use indiscriminately. She was apparently even disturbed
when her suitemates allowed a male friend of theirs to use their
bathroom; she thought they should have sent them down the hall to use
the bathroom of some guys whom he did not even know. She did not
mention showers (although she did express concern about stepping out
of the shower and finding a guy there, although personally I don't
want anyone to be present when I am stepping out of a shower naked,
male or female), but if the purveyor of the myth is as good at
twisting facts as Limbaugh then I wouldn't be surprised that it became
this.
I don't know if that is the source of the rumor, but in any case it
can be pretty well dismissed for the case of Williams College, and I
doubt any other college would be able to get away with such a
situation. Sorry. :)
/
:@-) Scott
\
Ted Wong
Michael Kotler wrote:
[Co-ed locker-room style showeres in dorms.]
> Three schools about which I heard this UL:
> -- Antioch in Yellow Springs, OH
> -- University of California at Berkeley (as you probably expected <g>)
> -- Williams College in Massachussets
:
> I also heard this
> about some European schools, but given the culture and more
> matter-of-fact attitude toward nudity in general, these are more
> believable.
Antioch College seems to be an unlikely place for this kind of
'progressive' showering arrangement in the 60's and 70's, given the
madly PC reputation of the current campus (the step-by-step sexual
contact questionnaire comes to mind).
Re European schools: at Pembroke College, Oxford, one of the shower
rooms was co-ed; it had curtained-off showers but an open drying-off
area. I think it was pretty much used by anyone who cared more about
cleanliness than modesty - or who didn't fancy a walk *outside* in the
Great British Weather to get to a single-sex shower.
Ted "is it cold out here or are you just unhappy to see me?" Wong
--
Ted Wong | DISCLAIMER: Cornell's opinions do
<tm...@cornell.edu> | not necessarily reflect mine.
Information Technology Section | WARNING: Reading this posting may be
Mann Library, Cornell University | hazardous to your productivity.
Mark Shaw
In article <33973e7f...@news.erols.com>, mek...@flynns.com (Michael Kotler) writes:
>Three schools about which I heard this UL:
>-- Antioch in Yellow Springs, OH
I presume one must ask permission from one's showermates of the
opposite gender before disrobing, entering, soaping naughty bits,
etc.
--
Mark "squeaky clean" Shaw remove all caps from my address to email me
======================================================================
-^v------^v------^v------^v------^v------^v------^v-------------------
bip bip bip bip bip bip bip beeeeeeeeeeeee
Michelle Bergeron
tur...@smarty.smart.net (Nat Turner) wrote:
>
>I went to a place that had this and didn't like it at all. Believe me,
>walking into a bathroom and looking at the bottom of a stall to see a
>woman's dress hiked down around her shoes is no turn on.
>
>BARD
>--
Aww. Even if she were a perfect 34?
Michelle Bergeron
berg...@austin.ibm.com All things considered...
(512) 823-6645 fat people use more soap.
Bo Lawler
Nat Turner <tur...@smarty.smart.net> wrote:
>
>I went to a place that had this and didn't like it at all. Believe me,
>walking into a bathroom and looking at the bottom of a stall to see a
>woman's dress hiked down around her shoes is no turn on.
I'm not an expert in these matters, but how often does one drop a dress
around the ankles when attending nature's call? Isn't there a more
elegant solution to the topological problem presented here?
Bo "left as an exercise for the reader" Lawler
Lon Stowell
Bo Lawler <law...@zappa.forestry.uga.edu-nuke-this-for-email> wrote:
>
>I'm not an expert in these matters, but how often does one drop a dress
>around the ankles when attending nature's call? Isn't there a more
>elegant solution to the topological problem presented here?
My guess would be that the type of women BARD means have an
adams apple too large to raise the dress up and over.
Rush Strong
When each cup is a 34, she would be lucky even to get to her adam's apple.
- Rush
Please remove [SPAMBLOCK] from my address if replying by e-mail.
mig
On Thu, 05 Jun 1997 23:01:48 GMT, mek...@flynns.com (Michael Kotler)
wrote:
[Coed showers]
>-- University of California at Berkeley (as you probably expected <g>)
Stereotypes never die, they just pull their dresses down around their
ankles.
NOOOOOObody expects the bathroom inquisition. Anyway, the coed part
was true (1987-89 at least) but thing could only get interesting
(besides the ankles someone mentioned (with or without dress)) if you
pushed the curtains aside. Each shower head had it's own curtain stall
in the recognizedly coed bathrooms. There were also little dressing
rooms with lockable doors in at least some of the bathrooms.
saludos, mig "glimpse of stocking"
-----
"Myths and legends die hard in America. We love them
for the extra dimension they provide, the illusion
of near-infinite possibility to erase the narrow
confines of most men's reality. Weird heroes and
mould-breaking champions exist as living proof to
those who need it that the tyranny of "the rat race"
is not yet final." Hunter S. Thompson
-----
Michael Greengard
mig@satlink[dot]com
Nat Turner
In article <5nc66h$c...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com>,
Lon Stowell <lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com> wrote:
>Bo Lawler <law...@zappa.forestry.uga.edu-nuke-this-for-email> wrote:
>>
>>I'm not an expert in these matters, but how often does one drop a dress
>>around the ankles when attending nature's call? Isn't there a more
>>elegant solution to the topological problem presented here?
>
> My guess would be that the type of women BARD means have an
> adams apple too large to raise the dress up and over.
>
>
Nah, almost witty but not quite there. Nice attempt, though.
BARD
--
Briar Rose
Stephan Zielinski <szie...@well.com> wrote:
>mek...@flynns.com (Michael Kotler) writes:
>> I'm talking about communal, or "gang" shower rooms -- essentially a
>> wall or two with a row of showerheads and soapdishes (or stainless
>> steel columns with water sprays pointed radially) -- that are co-ed at
>> all times.
>(Michael's heard the rumor about...)
>> -- University of California at Berkeley (as you probably expected <g>)
>
>mix of co-ed and single-gender shower facilities, but no "gang" shower
>rooms as you describe above.
When I was at UC Santa Cruz (1987-89) the college I lived
in (Kresge) had the potential for co-ed group showering.
About half of the rooms were set up as pseudo-apartments
with seven rooms surrounding a shared ablution area. The
shower part theoretically held 2 at a time, and was one
big room with two nozzles at either end, no divider in
between.
Mixed-gender housing was not allowed during first term, but
2nd, 3rd, and summer terms it was allowed. So, if a guy and
girl in the same apartment both had a class to get to, they
might have showered together.
It never came up in discussion. I know a couple of my
(straight) female roommates showered together in the mornings
in the interests of speed. I could see male/female roommates
doing the same thing, although, again, I have no proof one
way or the other that this happened.
>The only place where you were likely to end up in hot water naked with
>a stranger was the hot tub.
Interestingly enough, there were no hot tubs at UCSC. However,
there are two at Caltech; one is definitely "clothing-optional"
and the other is usually "clothing-requested;" although I have
heard that the CR one is occasionally inhabited by unclothed
people if they get to it first.
:) Connie-Lynne
--
"You can feed a site Miss Manners, but you can't make them read."
--Heather Sherman
rocket8...@gmail.com
> I've been hearing something that sounds like campus UL material, and I
> was wondering if anyone here could confirm or deny. According to
> several FOAF-type reports, there are (or were) co-ed college dorms in
> the US where the shower facilities are for mixed-sex use.
>
> the shower stalls, like the toilets, are individually curtained off.
> wall or two with a row of showerheads and soapdishes (or stainless
> steel columns with water sprays pointed radially) -- that are co-ed at
> all times.
>
> possible that a modern college or university would even permit such a
> thing, let alone have it standard operating procedure? Wouldn't the
> parents with daughters storm the housing office with bayonets? Most
> curious is how the residents would tolerate it, since most young
> people nowadays refuse to shower with members of their _own_ gender.
> (For those of you over 30, that gang shower you had to take after
> PhysEd in high school and/or jr. high is rapidly becoming a thing of
> the past. If a gym teacher required it nowadays, s/he could get
> arrested for sexual harrassment of a minor, followed by a lawsuit from
> the parents.)
>
> -- Antioch in Yellow Springs, OH
> schools in droves, keep in mind that most of these reports were from
> matter-of-fact attitude toward nudity in general, these are more
> believable.
>