Artley Wilkins Model
Leslie
late 1960s, when I was still in high school. The serial number is 220664.
It's open hole with a C foot, and in very good shape. It has a beautiful,
clear tone in all octaves.
When my parents purchased this flute they were assured it was solid silver,
although nowhere on the body does it state that. The only thing on the
body is: Artley, Elkhart, Ind., The Wilkins Model, and the serial number.
Can anyone tell me what this flute is made of? I play my flute a lot, and
have since it was new, but there is no wear indicating it's silver plated.
Also, can anyone tell me the approximate value? I want to have it insured,
but have no idea what dollar amount to attach to it.
Also, is it possible to replace the plugs for the open holes? When I got
this flute my private teacher quickly confiscated the plugs and I never saw
them again.
Thanks for any/all info!!
Leslie
"It's hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
Leslie's Audio Trivia Page
http://www.bessiebee.com/Trivia
Vince
discoloration where the head fits into the body. Also where the body fits
into the foot.
If the lower part of either is a brassy colour it is probably silver plate
otherwise it is sterling. I can't tell you the value but Artley is
generally not a hi value. however that is before my time.
good luck!
"Leslie" <bessieRE...@bessiebee.com> wrote in message
news:3a21b468....@news.clinton.net...
Pete
silver,
> although nowhere on the body does it state that.
Solid silver feels nothing like silver plated nickel. It feels acoustically
dead - almost like lead or plastic - and feels like it could bend in your
hand. Silver plated nickel feels indestructible and the head will ring like
a bell if you flick the tongue with your finger nail. On plated instruments,
the tongues are not plated, so you will see a clear difference between the
tongue and the rest of the instrument. On solid silver instruments the
tongues are silver.
Regards.
Mike Wilson
Powell flute made for Frederick Wilkins. As far as I know, all Artley
Wilkins flutes were solid silver. You would need to take it to a jeweler
to be absolutely certain.
If the flute is in good playing condition (good pads, good mechanism, no
dents or dings), its probably worth somewhere around $1000, based on
prices at Flute World for used Artleys.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Joseph S. Wisniewski
> news:3a21b468....@news.clinton.net...
> > I own an Artley Wilkins Model flute. It was a gift from my parents in the
> > late 1960s, when I was still in high school. The serial number is 220664.
> > It's open hole with a C foot, and in very good shape. It has a beautiful,
> > clear tone in all octaves.
Vince wrote:
>
> the easy way to tell if it is sterling silver is to look for any
> discoloration where the head fits into the body. Also where the body fits
> into the foot.
Unless, of course, it's sterling plated sterling silver (which will have
a different color to the tenons, even though it's technically the same
metal) or rhodium plated sterling silver.
Solid sterling silver flutes are often plated with sterling silver or
rhodium to hide discoloration from soldering.
> If the lower part of either is a brassy colour it is probably silver plate
> otherwise it is sterling.
A "white brass" or "nickle brass" or "german silver" flute will not be
brass colored. German silver and white brass are known for accumulating
blue green crud ad joints.
> I can't tell you the value but Artley is
> generally not a hi value.
Older Arltey's (before the UMI merger with ARmstrong in the 1960's) are
pretty good horns and do hold value.
Ciao!
Joe
Joseph S. Wisniewski
>
> > When my parents purchased this flute they were assured it was solid
> > silver, although nowhere on the body does it state that.
>
No, but it does feel virtually identical to well hardened brass or other
copper nickel alloys.
> It feels acoustically
> dead - almost like lead or plastic - and feels like it could bend in your
> hand.
That's characteristic of many of the alloys used in really cheap flutes,
but not of silver.
> Silver plated nickel feels indestructible and the head will ring like
> a bell if you flick the tongue with your finger nail.
Purely a function of metal thickness and hardness. The hardness of
silver varies over (roughly) a 4:1 range, depending on how it's worked
forming the head, and how it's annealed.
> On plated instruments,
> the tongues are not plated, so you will see a clear difference between the
> tongue and the rest of the instrument. On solid silver instruments the
> tongues are silver.
Not necessarily. Read my earlier reply to "vince".
Ciao!
Joe
Joseph S. Wisniewski
>
> I own an Artley Wilkins Model flute. It was a gift from my parents in the
> late 1960s, when I was still in high school. The serial number is 220664.
> It's open hole with a C foot, and in very good shape. It has a beautiful,
> clear tone in all octaves.
I'm pretty sure Mike's right, all Artley Wilkens are solid silver.
#220664 was manufactured in 1968, if that helps.
> When my parents purchased this flute they were assured it was solid silver,
> although nowhere on the body does it state that. The only thing on the
> body is: Artley, Elkhart, Ind., The Wilkins Model, and the serial number.
> Can anyone tell me what this flute is made of? I play my flute a lot, and
> have since it was new, but there is no wear indicating it's silver plated.
>
> Also, can anyone tell me the approximate value? I want to have it insured,
> but have no idea what dollar amount to attach to it.
Bob Johnson, the best flute repair guy I know, does insurance estimates
over the net. And he will send the numbers directly to your insurance
company, if you need. He's also a wizard with Straubinger pads.
http://www.flutespecialists.com
> Also, is it possible to replace the plugs for the open holes? When I got
> this flute my private teacher quickly confiscated the plugs and I never saw
> them again.
Well, I usually prefer playing an open hole flute without the plugs. If
it's a properly made instrument, the intonation will be just a little
bit off with the plugs in. But Artley's weren't known for the best
intonation, so
this probably isn't a problem. Any band instrument store will be able to
provide you with a set of plugs, at a price ranging from free to around
$5.
Ciao!
Joe
Stephen Howard
(Leslie) wrote:
>I own an Artley Wilkins Model flute. It was a gift from my parents in the
>late 1960s, when I was still in high school. The serial number is 220664.
>It's open hole with a C foot, and in very good shape. It has a beautiful,
>clear tone in all octaves.
>
>When my parents purchased this flute they were assured it was solid silver,
>although nowhere on the body does it state that. The only thing on the
>body is: Artley, Elkhart, Ind., The Wilkins Model, and the serial number.
>Can anyone tell me what this flute is made of? I play my flute a lot, and
>have since it was new, but there is no wear indicating it's silver plated.
>
>Also, can anyone tell me the approximate value? I want to have it insured,
>but have no idea what dollar amount to attach to it.
>
>Also, is it possible to replace the plugs for the open holes? When I got
>this flute my private teacher quickly confiscated the plugs and I never saw
>them again.
>
>Thanks for any/all info!!
>
>Leslie
One simple test for a solid silver body ( well, the head at least ) is
to lightly hold the head by the crown twixt finger and thumb and give
the tenon a flick with your other hand. If the head 'dings' it's
nickel silver, it it 'thunks' it's silver.
Other than that you can examine the tenons to see if they are a
slightly yellower tone than the rest of the body - if so then it's
nickel silver.
With regards to new plugs - they are available, but you may have to
find a specialist who stocks them.
Regards,
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
Emails to: shwoodwind{who is at}bigfoot{dot}com
Pete
> It feels acoustically dead - almost like lead or plastic.
Joe wrote in reply:
> That's characteristic of many of the alloys used in really cheap flutes,
> but not of silver.
Stephen Howard wrote:
> One simple test for a solid silver body ( well, the head at least ) is
> to lightly hold the head by the crown twixt finger and thumb and give
> the tenon a flick with your other hand. If the head 'dings' it's
> nickel silver, it it 'thunks' it's silver.
Well Joe, it seems that Stephen Howard in a later post at least agrees with
me, though he describes it slightly more fully. I think that it is unlikely
that all the solid silver flutes I have played, by some of the best known
manufacturers, were cheap alloy flutes masquerading as solid silver flutes.
An interesting legal case perhaps? The acoustically dead characteristic of
silver is one of the main reasons that silver works for the flute (for much
the same reason that lead is the predominant material used for organ pipes).
I realise that the test described above is to decide between silver and
nickel silver, rather than between silver and a copy alloy of similar
characteristics to silver. I have not encountered flutes made from the
alloys you mention in another post, but agree that if flutes are made from
materials of very close mechanical characteristics and appearance then it
would be difficult to tell them apart by inspection.
Ciao!
Stephen Howard
<w...@netfrog.net> wrote:
>Pete wrote:
>>
>> > When my parents purchased this flute they were assured it was solid
>> > silver, although nowhere on the body does it state that.
>>
>> Solid silver feels nothing like silver plated nickel.
>
>No, but it does feel virtually identical to well hardened brass or other
>copper nickel alloys.
I didn't understand what you were saying here - do you mean to say
that silver feels virtually identical to well hardened brass??
I assume you were referring to nickel silver, yes?
>
>> It feels acoustically
>> dead - almost like lead or plastic - and feels like it could bend in your
>> hand.
>
>That's characteristic of many of the alloys used in really cheap flutes,
>but not of silver.
I disagree - silver is closer to lead than any of the alloys I've ever
come across in musical instruments. Even Monel Metal, despite its low
melting point, is far harder than silver - or at least more brittle.
Turning silver is rather like turning lead, its inherent softness has
to be taken into account otherwise it will grab the tool and wrench
itself from the chuck. The only other non-ferrous metal I know of
which will do this is copper.
On the whole, nickel silver alloys tend to be far harder - except
perhaps those used by Pearl for its 1980's mid range flute, which were
uncommonly soft.
>
>> Silver plated nickel feels indestructible and the head will ring like
>> a bell if you flick the tongue with your finger nail.
>
>Purely a function of metal thickness and hardness. The hardness of
>silver varies over (roughly) a 4:1 range, depending on how it's worked
>forming the head, and how it's annealed.
Even when silver is hardened or annealed it exhibits different
acoustic properties to alloys.
I often use silver to manufacture flat springs ( typically made from
brass ), which are work hardened to provide the appropriate power for
the key on which they are fitted.
A routine test for the correct hardeness is to 'twang' the spring -
and again you find that silver springs have considerably less acoustic
'boing' in them than brass ones.
toby
Although I too have noticed that nickel rings when struck with a fingernail
rather more than silver (and it is also true that the "tone" of silver
varies depending on the hardness), this particular characteristic does not
at all determine how the head will sound. "Tinging" a flute head or sax body
or whatever results in a vibration in which the round tube distorts to an
ellipoid. This particular kind of vibration is never caused by a vibrating
air column inside an instrument, as this always exerts equal pressure around
the tube.
I have had many fine handmade flutes, including Haynes, Powell, L. Lot,
Rudall Carte, Bonneville and A. Hammig. Some were silver and some were
plated. Sometimes the plated ones played better than the silver ones.
Much more than the material, the tone and response depend on the dimensions
of the head and bore and the fineness of manufacture. At present it is true
that almost always silver, gold, platinum and palladium flutes are more
carefully manufactured than their nickel-alloy brethren, but this was not
the case 100 years ago. It is instructive to play some of the better nickel
flutes of the age to find out just how little difference the material
actually makes.
--
Toby
remove NOSPAM to reply
"Pete" <Pe...@default.default> wrote in message
news:Ep5V5.2205$s6.17679@stones...
> Peter wrote:
> > It feels acoustically dead - almost like lead or plastic.
>
> Joe wrote in reply:
> > That's characteristic of many of the alloys used in really cheap flutes,
> > but not of silver.
>
toby
knowledge and experience!
Best regards,
--
Toby
remove NOSPAM to reply
"Stephen Howard" <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message
news:3a254bfe...@news.clara.net...
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:22:58 -0500, "Joseph S. Wisniewski"
> <w...@netfrog.net> wrote:
>
> >Pete wrote:
> >>
> >> > When my parents purchased this flute they were assured it was solid
> >> > silver, although nowhere on the body does it state that.
> >>
> >> Solid silver feels nothing like silver plated nickel.
> >
> >No, but it does feel virtually identical to well hardened brass or other
> >copper nickel alloys.
>
> I didn't understand what you were saying here - do you mean to say
> that silver feels virtually identical to well hardened brass??
> I assume you were referring to nickel silver, yes?
>
> >
> >> It feels acoustically
> >> dead - almost like lead or plastic - and feels like it could bend in
your
> >> hand.
> >
> >That's characteristic of many of the alloys used in really cheap flutes,
> >but not of silver.
>
Leslie
>I own an Artley Wilkins Model flute. It was a gift from my parents in the
>late 1960s, when I was still in high school. The serial number is 220664.
>It's open hole with a C foot, and in very good shape. It has a beautiful,
>clear tone in all octaves.
>Also, can anyone tell me the approximate value? I want to have it insured,
>but have no idea what dollar amount to attach to it.
>
>Also, is it possible to replace the plugs for the open holes? When I got
>this flute my private teacher quickly confiscated the plugs and I never saw
>them again.
WOW!! Much more info than I ever expected! Thank you all!
FTR: I was inquiring about the plugs so my 11 year old son could give my
flute a try.
Thanks again for all the info.
