MAC SUCKS
Beast
Earn some money and buy a real computer, not some lame colored stupid
mac.
Beast
Michael
other 9 year-old PC users.
Michael
----------
J.C.
>bee...@dds.nl (Beast) wrote in <38C3BDE7...@dds.nl>:
>
>>I think anyone who owns a mac is a big fat loser.
>>Earn some money and buy a real computer, not some lame colored stupid
>>mac.
>>
>>Beast
>
>
Now who's the idiot who's favorite phrase is
"Quote and attribute" <--------- hrmmm!
Oh, and that should be 'Macintoshes', not "Macintosh's". Just thought I'd
step in to that...
--
J.C.
"The free flow of information along data highways being piped into our
homes and offices will permit unimaginable control by a small elite..."
-- 'The Thunder of Justice', pg. 264
Steffie
J.C.
>jay...@mailcity.com (J.C.) wrote in
><slrn8c9gjk...@localhost.localdomain>:
>>On 7 Mar 2000 04:07:17 GMT, Joseph Joyce
>><aoli...@nomindspringspam.comwanted> wrote:
>>>bee...@dds.nl (Beast) wrote in <38C3BDE7...@dds.nl>:
>>>
>>>>Earn some money and buy a real computer, not some lame colored stupid
>>>>mac.
>>>>
>>>>Beast
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>Now who's the idiot who's favorite phrase is
>>
>>"Quote and attribute" <--------- hrmmm!
>>
>>
>>Oh, and that should be 'Macintoshes', not "Macintosh's". Just thought
>>I'd step in to that...
>
>
Uh... when you 'qoute and attribute' you give your sources, moron. Who
were you quoting and attributing?
>BTW, a grammar flame is pathetic.
Quit whining. Learn how to punctuate. (How can you whinge about something
if you can't even punctuate it properly, hrmm?)
Alf Ove Røyland
Can you EASY reach any network from any fucking Winblows setup cd?
J.C.
>jay...@mailcity.com (J.C.) wrote in
>>On 8 Mar 2000 23:01:25 GMT, Joseph Joyce
>><aoli...@nomindspringspam.comwanted> wrote:
>>>jay...@mailcity.com (J.C.) wrote in
>>><slrn8c9gjk...@localhost.localdomain>:
>>>
>>>>On 7 Mar 2000 04:07:17 GMT, Joseph Joyce
>>>><aoli...@nomindspringspam.comwanted> wrote:
>>>>>bee...@dds.nl (Beast) wrote in <38C3BDE7...@dds.nl>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I think anyone who owns a mac is a big fat loser.
>>>>>>Earn some money and buy a real computer, not some lame colored
>>>>>>stupid mac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Beast
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Macintosh's cost more then a PC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Now who's the idiot who's favorite phrase is
>>>>
>>>>"Quote and attribute" <--------- hrmmm!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Oh, and that should be 'Macintoshes', not "Macintosh's". Just thought
>>>>I'd step in to that...
>>>
>>>
>>>er... I DID qoute and attribute.
>>
>>Uh... when you 'qoute and attribute' you give your sources, moron. Who
>>were you quoting and attributing?
>
Uh... Yes, I do. Do you? Obviously we have two completely different concepts
of what quoting-and-attributing are. Perhaps you'd like to share yours so we
can clear this mess up.
[some crap snipped]
Jim Campbell
I inadvertantly found myself in an intresting discussion with Shice Beony
from this very NG ...
I thought I might try and open that discussion up a bit, since we discovered
that we were arguing somewhat at crossed purposes.
Anyway, what follows is the original text of an article which appeared -
slightly edited - in UK magazine MacFormat (and may have been reprinted
elsewhere through related publications in the group) dealing with my
experience of using both a Mac and a Windows PC for basically the same,
admittedly quite specific, purpose.
If you can be bothered to read it, please stick with it until the end,
because there is an addendum at the bottom which corrects a couple of
inaccuracies in the main text (stuff I basically found out after the
magazine went to press!)
Since I was pretty much preaching to the converted when the article
originally appeared, I would be genuinely interested in a wider view.
The text follows:
"A big lie (or: How I Stoppped Worrying and Learned to Love Steve Jobs)"
In the face of Apple's recent high-handed/arrogant/despicable (delete as
appropriate) behaviour, particularly towards its UK consumers, a number of
people have come forward in letter columns and newsgroups and said,
basically, "If Apple continues behaving like this, I will abandon them in
favour of a Wintel machine".
These people have apparently fallen victim to a Big Lie surreptitiously
spreading through the consumer base for personal computers. This Big Lie, in
one form or another, is: "In day to day operation, there is no practical
difference between the Mac OS and Windows 95/98."
Well, I for one can tell you that there is.
Having been a Mac professional for several years now, I was somewhat taken
aback when my latest job landed me sitting in front of a Compaq Celeron
rather than a Mac. The hardware is hardly top-spec (400MHz processor, 64Mb
RAM), but the manufacturers claim it is more than sufficient for mid-range
DTP and design work.
Besides, the PC had Quark, Photoshop and Freehand installed and, I had come
to believe through hearing it constantly repeated, there was "no practical
difference."
However, my working week is almost equally divided between the office PC and
my home Mac (a trusty old 180MHz 6400, now over three years old). and I have
had the opportunity to compare the "day to day operation" of ostensibly
identical applications.
I am prepared to concede that some of the 'problems' I have encountered with
the Windows machine are simply a case of liking what you already know and
disliking what you don't: for instance, all the major keyboard shortcuts are
accessed from the CTRL key on a Windows machine which, unlike the COMMAND
key on the Mac, is not located right next to the space bar (and therefore
handy for pressing with your thumb if your hands are in a conventional
typing position). Others, however, are not.
The lack of standardization of keyboard shortcuts in the Windows environment
is nothing short of infuriating. Whilst I am sure that there isn't a Mac
operator alive who hasn't, at some point, uttered a succession of expletives
when moving from Photoshop to Quark only to use the wrong shortcut to access
the zoom tool, the problem is far, far worse on the PC.
To give you an example: how about closing document windows and quitting
applications? Pretty basic, system-wide functions I'm sure you'll agree.
Well, in Windows, Photoshop uses the fairly sensible CTRL-W and CTRL-Q
respectively, whilst Quark uses the less sensible CTRL-F4 (which isn't even
documented as a shortcut) and CTRL-Q, and Freehand uses CTRL-F4 and ALT-F4.
Some might say that this is nit-picking, but simply ask yourself how many
times you use these particular functions in a day - especially if you work
on a computer for a living - and try to work how much time you'd waste in,
say, a week just through repeatedly using the wrong key-strokes (I've worked
it out at upwards of half-an-hour in my case).
Not convinced? Fair enough - but there's more.
I'm certain that even owners or users of the nippiest G4 still moan about
having to watch progress bars crawl across the screen. Try not having a
progress bar, only an entirely unhelpful hourglass icon whilst your machine
is busy.
Suddenly, you have no idea whether that Photoshop filter is going to take
another five minutes (in which case you can do something useful, like put
the kettle on) or thirty seconds. Oh, and you can't cancel the operation,
either! In the interests of not wasting useable machine-time, you have no
option but to sit there and wait. In some cases (which we'll come to
shortly), that can be a very long time indeed.
And then there are the differences in the operations of specific
applications. No different to the Mac? I don't think so.
Using the PC to open a Quark document which had originated on a Mac, I was
confronted with a message informing me that Windows had turned off the
'Ligatures' option in the document, because that feature wasn't available.
Not, as I had assumed from my original cursory reading of the dialogue box,
that the Windows version of the font didn't have ligatures, but that Windows
simply does not do them.
(For readers whose interests do not include the minutiae of typography: you
may have noticed, in books particularly, that sometimes certain pairs of
characters appear to be joined together - 'ff' and 'fi', for instance - and
those are ligatures.)
Whilst I concede that this is not the end of the world, I was astonished to
find that this fairly standard typographic feature was not available to me.
Who, exactly, is Bill Gates to decide that the world doesn't need ligatures?
In fact, Windows performance on typography in general is woeful: although
the 'Character Map' feature (an even less helpful version of Key Caps)
informs the user that most fonts have a full set of characters, many of them
seem inaccessible from the keyboard (the typographer's friend, the ellipsis
'Š', for example) and no amount of finger-dislocating key-combinations seem
to elicit variant hyphens, degree or copyright symbols.
Additionally, even with the latest version of ATM Deluxe installed, font
display is, at best, patchy with fonts tending to lose bold or italics when
documents are re-opened, and sometimes refusing to display at all without a
restart.
And then there are significant performance issues. Even with addition VRAM,
the screen redraw on the PC is abysmal and, whilst I will happily concede
that applications launch significantly faster, in operation those
applications are certainly no faster than my ageing Mac and, in some cases,
are dramatically slower.
Photoshop, in particular, runs like a snail on Prozac. I have actually
become so bored waiting for operations and filters to complete that I've
actually taken to timing them: on a 4.5Mb grayscale Photoshop document,
Select>Inverse takes 10 seconds on the PC and 2 on my Mac; Enter/Exit
QuickMask takes 15s on the PC and 1 on the Mac. A 40Mb multi-layered
Photoshop file took just under 10 minutes to open on the Windows machine
whilst the Mac opened an identical file in 90 seconds.
Apologists for the PC might suggest that I am using the machine for a
purpose which it was not originally intended (despite the manufacturer's
claims to the contrary). To this I can only point out that I am comparing a
brand new, mid-spec Windows PC with a system which is not only more than
three years old, but which was originally marketed as a 'Home Office'
system, and therefore hardly intended for intensive DTP and graphics work
either!
In general, the PC feels unstable and fiddly in comparison, with crashes or
other errors requiring a re-boot three or four times a day - in comparison
to about one crash a fortnight on the Mac, despite the fact that it has
considerably more external devices attached to it. The PC's two printers
have never worked properly (if at all) in four months and have defeated two
separate attempts by the IT department of a major regional publisher to fix
them.
So ... to those people who threaten to flee the Mac for the world of Wintel
because Apple has callously re-named their Wastebasket as Trash ...
Think again. The difference between the two systems is as simple as this:
Microsoft gives you an operating system and expects you to learn how to use
it. Apple thinks about how people are going to use their machines and
designs the software to facilitate that with a minimum of stress.
Even Apple treating you badly is preferable to the best a Windows PC can
offer you. Trust me - I know.
Jim Campbell
Graphic Designer
ADDENDUM:
The process of using the Windows PC is an ongoing one - I have not simply
thrown my hands up in disgust and given up. Consequently, I have since
figured out a number of things which at least slightly contradict statements
in the main text:
1) I have discovered the 'Status Bar' in Photoshop for Windows, which does
indeed provide the user with a progress bar for lengthy operations. However,
the progress bar does not kick in immediately an operation is begun, tends
to zap through three-quarters of the way and then hang for minutes on end.
Once the bar has completed, there is then a significant delay before the
screen itself updates. This means that you _still_ don't have any accurate
indication of how long a complex PS operation is going to take!
2) I have come to the assumption that CTRL-F4 and ALT-F4 are the Windows
default keystrokes for closing documents and quitting applications (I may be
wrong), but to not display these next to the appropriate items on the 'File'
menu is, to say the least, unhelpful and even these are not universal: you
can't quit the 'Find Files' utility with these key strokes, f'r instance.
3) After much fiddling, I have now managed to extract both m-hyphens and
n-hyphens from the Windows keyboard, but other symbols such as the ellipsis
and copyright symbol remain a mystery. Cutting and Pasting out of the
Character Map is so time-consuming as to be unusable.
Finally, it's worth pointing out that I didn't walk into this situation as a
complete Windows virgin, having used PCs for both database management and
for full-page make-up (the very specific software used in creating the
finished pages for the classified ad publication I work for is Pentium only)
for almost five years now ...
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Jim
JCB
>
> "A big lie (or: How I Stoppped Worrying and Learned to Love Steve Jobs)"
>
> In the face of Apple's recent high-handed/arrogant/despicable (delete as
> appropriate) behaviour, particularly towards its UK consumers, a number of
> people have come forward in letter columns and newsgroups and said,
> basically, "If Apple continues behaving like this, I will abandon them in
> favour of a Wintel machine".
>
<huge snip>
>
> Any thoughts?
i agree, I use macintosh G3's for plotting and
visualization of scientific data generated from FORTRAN
codes run on either a PC or the UNIX mainframe. I also do
digital video for fun. My wife has a sony Vaio desktop.
Pretty much, across the board, the macs outperform and are
easier to use than the PC's. I started computing on a PC
with windows 3.1, but then my research group was all Mac, so
i converted. I am so glad. The closest thing to a Mac I've
seen in the PC world is the Vaio, i like the way the mouse
'feels', nice and solid like the mac mouse, not loose and
rickety like the typical PC mouse.
-jose
--
Jose C. Borrero jbor...@usc.edu
University of Southern California
Tsunami Research
http://www.usc.edu/dept/tsunamis
For Reports on the Biggest Waves in the World!!
No Spam
> >Earn some money and buy a real computer, not some lame colored stupid
> >mac.
> >
> >Beast
>
> Macintosh's cost more then a PC.
A bucket of shit costs less than a PC. Are you going to buy one?
Derek Currie
<NoS...@Spam.net> wrote:
No, Macintosh NEVER cost more than a PC.
This is because it has ALWAYS had the best Return On Investment AND
Lowest Cost Of Ownership.
If you don't know what these two phrases mean, then look them up. They
are business terms. They refer to the REAL cost of an item.
When to toss over the cash for an item is that when all your
expenditures end? NO! You pay for setup, training, maintenance, and
efficiency of use.
This quote seems to live on forever:
Intel studied their internal computer network. What they found shocked
them: Mac cost at least 4X less to own than PC machines!
And guess what InfoWorld has concluded about Windows: With ever new
release of Windows it becomes MORE expensive to use a PC, NOT LESS. This
was the Number 1 reason InfoWorld did NOT endorse upgrading from NT 4 to
Windows 2000. The increase costs of installing, configuring, running and
maintaining Windows 2000 do NOT justify the purchase.
Johnson and Johnson fell for the irrational press barrage that said
Apple was 'DEAD' in 1997. Yeah right. So they dumped all their Macs and
moved entirely to PC. The result? Their Cost Of Ownership for their
computer ballooned to 10X higher than the Cost of Ownership for their
Macs. Brilliant move, huh.
So please PC Clowns, get a grip and face reality for a change.
The Mac remains the CHEAPEST desktop computer available. Learn how to
count your money to understand why.
Oh, and which computer platform runs the most software? Macintosh. It
runs nearly every PC application available, as well as Mac, as well as
Unix, as well as Sony Playstation, as well as at least 10 other
platforms. And it runs them all at more than acceptable speeds. The only
exception I would make would be high-end 3D rendering programs where you
want all the speed you can lay your hands on. Stick to Mac native
software for that purpose. In particular, look for 'Velocity Engine' or
'AltiVec' native Mac software. It will run far faster on G4 Macs than on
ANY PC.
Smile: There's is still competition in the computer community!
:-Derek
--
Derek Currie, der...@nospam.frontiernet.net
<http://www.frontiernet.net/~derekc/beastbox>
sufokatin user
thanks to have close this big mouth of Pc user in the news :o)
Pc is for Gamer Kid....grow up and Buy a MAC
Freddy Contreras
>
> The process of using the Windows PC is an ongoing one - I have not simply
> thrown my hands up in disgust and given up. Consequently, I have since
> figured out a number of things which at least slightly contradict
statements
> in the main text:
> 1) I have discovered the 'Status Bar' in Photoshop for Windows, which does
> indeed provide the user with a progress bar for lengthy operations.
However,
> the progress bar does not kick in immediately an operation is begun, tends
> to zap through three-quarters of the way and then hang for minutes on end.
> Once the bar has completed, there is then a significant delay before the
> screen itself updates. This means that you _still_ don't have any accurate
> indication of how long a complex PS operation is going to take!
> 2) I have come to the assumption that CTRL-F4 and ALT-F4 are the Windows
> default keystrokes for closing documents and quitting applications (I may
be
> wrong), but to not display these next to the appropriate items on the
'File'
> menu is, to say the least, unhelpful and even these are not universal: you
> can't quit the 'Find Files' utility with these key strokes, f'r instance.
Yes, the default keystroke for closing anything in win98 is ALT-F4.
> 3) After much fiddling, I have now managed to extract both m-hyphens and
> n-hyphens from the Windows keyboard, but other symbols such as the
ellipsis
> and copyright symbol remain a mystery. Cutting and Pasting out of the
> Character Map is so time-consuming as to be unusable.
® This little gem is accessed by pressing and holding the ALT key and typing
"174" in the numeric keypad.
© This one is ALT-169
See no copying or pasting. You can check what the codes for other characters
are in character map (which is pretty useless btw, I agree with you there).
> Finally, it's worth pointing out that I didn't walk into this situation as
a
> complete Windows virgin, having used PCs for both database management and
> for full-page make-up (the very specific software used in creating the
> finished pages for the classified ad publication I work for is Pentium
only)
> for almost five years now ...
>
> Any thoughts?
You're unhappy with it because you don't know it very well yet, be patient
with yourself and you'll get it. I used to find macintoshes crashy and
infuriating (esp. the fact that in some apps, if there is a dialog box open,
you can't access anything else). I'm a PC based designer and I'll tell ya,
in day to day operation, the two systems are the same. Once you've started
your app, it makes virtually no difference whether you're in a windows or a
macintosh environment.
Freddy Contreras
Designer
Freddy Contreras
> visualization of scientific data generated from FORTRAN
> codes run on either a PC or the UNIX mainframe. I also do
> digital video for fun. My wife has a sony Vaio desktop.
> Pretty much, across the board, the macs outperform and are
> easier to use than the PC's. I started computing on a PC
> with windows 3.1, but then my research group was all Mac, so
> i converted. I am so glad. The closest thing to a Mac I've
> seen in the PC world is the Vaio, i like the way the mouse
> 'feels', nice and solid like the mac mouse, not loose and
> rickety like the typical PC mouse.
The typical PC mouse (in brand name PC's anyway) is usuall a logitech first
mouse, which rocks, I love this mouse, it has 3 buttons is very comfortable
and with clean rollers, it glides really smooth. I wish you guys could see
my computer, my lowly P2 400 would convince you guys that there is no
practical difference between windows and mac. My computer works so well, it
actually makes me paranoid at times (it's quiet...too quiet =). Photoshop
runs great, as does illustrator (except when I trace stuff, if I'm zoomed in
close it slows down a lot, I'm not sure why yet)
I've done 4 color process printing, scanning, color correction, 3d imaging
out of it and never had any problems caused by the mere fact that I was
using windows. The printer didn't even know my files came from a PC until I
told him (after he checked the illustrator eps image file stuff and he saw
the creator was corel 9 PC)
Most PC mice feel rickety because they cost 2$, I think people should put
more money into ergonomics than just processing power, which explains why my
chair cost me almost as much as my sony 17"...
Anyway, Peace.
Freddy
PS: Logitech mice dammit! I think they even make a 3 button transparent USB
version.
JIm Campbell
the_b...@hotmail.com wrote on 18/3/2000 11:05 pm:
>> 3) After much fiddling, I have now managed to extract both m-hyphens and
>> n-hyphens from the Windows keyboard, but other symbols such as the
> ellipsis
>> and copyright symbol remain a mystery. Cutting and Pasting out of the
>> Character Map is so time-consuming as to be unusable.
>
> ® This little gem is accessed by pressing and holding the ALT key and typing
> "174" in the numeric keypad.
>
> © This one is ALT-169
>
> See no copying or pasting. You can check what the codes for other characters
> are in character map (which is pretty useless btw, I agree with you there).
Yeah, but you have to admit that neither of those are exactly convenient -
alt-; produces an ellipsis on the Mac which is a damn sight easier
>> Finally, it's worth pointing out that I didn't walk into this situation as
> a
>> complete Windows virgin, having used PCs for both database management and
>> for full-page make-up (the very specific software used in creating the
>> finished pages for the classified ad publication I work for is Pentium
> only)
>> for almost five years now ...
> You're unhappy with it because you don't know it very well yet, be patient
> with yourself and you'll get it. I used to find macintoshes crashy and
> infuriating (esp. the fact that in some apps, if there is a dialog box open,
> you can't access anything else). I'm a PC based designer and I'll tell ya,
> in day to day operation, the two systems are the same. Once you've started
> your app, it makes virtually no difference whether you're in a windows or a
> macintosh environment.
My point was that it's a _lot_ easier to do this stuff on a Mac - I did a
job on my 6400 recently where the monitor output almost exactly matched the
proofs from my Stylus EX, which in turn almost exactly matched the finished
job from the printers. Despite extensive fiddling with the calibrations, I
can't even magenta to look like magenta on the PC monitor!
The Mac moulds itself almost invisibly to my working practices, whereas the
PC does the reverse, forcing me to modify working practices to accomadate
the restrictions of the operating environment - you merely assert that the
two systems are identical whilst cheerfully snipping a very extensive
comparison which demonstrates that they _aren't_.
I've already conceded that there is an element of disliking what you don't
know, but many of the problems I outlined are quantifiable and real and, for
me at least, turn the work process from a pleasurable one (on the Mac) into
a daily struggle to work around disappearing fonts and sluggish performance.
Cheers
Jim
Bob
>
> in article n7UA4.1772$qh2.1...@wagner.videotron.net, Freddy Contreras at
> the_b...@hotmail.com wrote on 18/3/2000 11:05 pm:
>
>
> > You're unhappy with it because you don't know it very well yet, be patient
> > with yourself and you'll get it. I used to find macintoshes crashy and
> > infuriating (esp. the fact that in some apps, if there is a dialog box open,
> > you can't access anything else). I'm a PC based designer and I'll tell ya,
> > in day to day operation, the two systems are the same. Once you've started
> > your app, it makes virtually no difference whether you're in a windows or a
> > macintosh environment.
>
NT-based PC's for creative professionals. There is no argument.
Mac vs. Win NT ROI Report:
http://www.apple.com/creative/collateral/pdf/ROITechBrief.pdf
--
Bob
\|/ ____ \|/
@~/ .. \~@
/_( \__/ )_\
\_ U_/
Remove ".diespammersdie" to reply.
M Merced
Derek Currie <der...@nospam.frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:derekc-D4D63A....@news.frontiernet.net...
> In article <160320001546021013%NoS...@Spam.net>, No Spam
> <NoS...@Spam.net> wrote:
>
> > > >I think anyone who owns a mac is a big fat loser.
> > > >Earn some money and buy a real computer, not some lame colored stupid
> > > >mac.
> > > >
> > > >Beast
> > >
> > > Macintosh's cost more then a PC.
> >
> > A bucket of shit costs less than a PC. Are you going to buy one?
>
> No, Macintosh NEVER cost more than a PC.
Dreck has the lack of understanding to know that "never" means that the
statement includes every PC and every Mac, and not simply the average. But
Dreck never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.
>
> This is because it has ALWAYS had the best Return On Investment AND
> Lowest Cost Of Ownership.
You've got the RDF so far up your rear you've vomited every Apple ad blurb,
ad nauseum.
>
> If you don't know what these two phrases mean, then look them up. They
> are business terms. They refer to the REAL cost of an item.
You didn't even have the sense to omit "never" and "always" to describe the
averages. How do you expect that poster to look up definitions, when you
don't even know them yourself? For someone, who because of being an Maccie,
numbered himself among the elite of computer users, you've proved the
opposite with every post you make.
>
> When to toss over the cash for an item is that when all your
> expenditures end? NO! You pay for setup, training, maintenance, and
> efficiency of use.
>
> This quote seems to live on forever:
>
> Intel studied their internal computer network. What they found shocked
> them: Mac cost at least 4X less to own than PC machines!
>
> And guess what InfoWorld has concluded about Windows: With ever new
> release of Windows it becomes MORE expensive to use a PC, NOT LESS. This
> was the Number 1 reason InfoWorld did NOT endorse upgrading from NT 4 to
> Windows 2000. The increase costs of installing, configuring, running and
> maintaining Windows 2000 do NOT justify the purchase.
>
> Johnson and Johnson fell for the irrational press barrage that said
> Apple was 'DEAD' in 1997. Yeah right. So they dumped all their Macs and
> moved entirely to PC. The result? Their Cost Of Ownership for their
> computer ballooned to 10X higher than the Cost of Ownership for their
> Macs. Brilliant move, huh.
About as brilliant as extrapolating those results to every single PC and
Mac, and passing off one for the other, of which you have NO proof.
>
> So please PC Clowns, get a grip and face reality for a change.
>
> The Mac remains the CHEAPEST desktop computer available. Learn how to
> count your money to understand why.
You can't be for real. This has got to be a joke.
>
>
> Oh, and which computer platform runs the most software? Macintosh. It
> runs nearly every PC application available, as well as Mac, as well as
> Unix, as well as Sony Playstation, as well as at least 10 other
> platforms. And it runs them all at more than acceptable speeds. The only
> exception I would make would be high-end 3D rendering programs where you
> want all the speed you can lay your hands on. Stick to Mac native
Utilizing what, those "high end ATI rage video cards" you mindless bragged
about before? Gimme a break!
> software for that purpose. In particular, look for 'Velocity Engine' or
> 'AltiVec' native Mac software. It will run far faster on G4 Macs than on
> ANY PC.
>
> Smile: There's is still competition in the computer community!
>
> :-Derek
You've singlehandedly put the dumb in Macdom. Keep up the good work.
Bob Lyday
>
> Eric Clark <j...@b2mac1.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote in message
> news:jec-260300...@28.lapuente-01rs13-14rt.ca.dial-access.att.net...
> > Jealous of not crashing every 2 hours?
> >>
> Then get Linux, still no need to get a mac.
>
Or OS/2 or BeOS, or if you wanna buy a new box, get an Amiga.
Not all PC folks are running Loseblows, ya know...
--
Bob
"We believe that OS/2 is the platform of the 90's." Bill Gates,
1989 (on videotape).
Remove ".diespammersdie" to reply.
Eric Clark
E
In article <38C3BDE7...@dds.nl>, Beast <bee...@dds.nl> wrote:
>I think anyone who owns a mac is a big fat loser.
>Earn some money and buy a real computer, not some lame colored stupid
>mac.
>
>Beast
--
Eric Clark
Systems Engineer
JPL/Honeywell Block II VLBI Correlator
jcl...@b2mac1.jpl.nasa.gov
M Merced
Eric Clark <j...@b2mac1.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote in message
news:jec-260300...@28.lapuente-01rs13-14rt.ca.dial-access.att.net...
>
Then get Linux, still no need to get a mac.
> E
Dotnames
> > >Earn some money and buy a real computer, not some lame colored stupid
> > >mac.
> > >
> > >Beast
> >
>
Maybe because they are WORTH more??
Something I can do in minutes on my Mac takes hours on a PC. Mac allows
me to do what I want, and it's job is to help me get there.
All the PC does is make you fight with it every step of the way.
--50 pages of freebies!--
http://www.allfreespot.com
Eric Clark
>Eric Clark <j...@b2mac1.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote in message
>news:jec-260300...@28.lapuente-01rs13-14rt.ca.dial-access.att.net...
>> Jealous of not crashing every 2 hours?
>>
>
>Then get Linux, still no need to get a mac.
>
>> E
>>
I have linux, Solaris, Irix, and Plan 9 running at work, as well as my
mac. Just wanted to engage the hapless Mac hater.
E
James Goodzeit
access.att.net>,> E
>
*lol*
Like some piece of s**** mac isn't gonna crash at least every 20
minutes. And I know this from experience--the G2s I had to use in a
class I took last year crashed way more often than my PC at home, and
teachers who use macs in their lecture are perpetually embarrassing
themselves, in contrast to those who use PCs, who almost NEVER have
problems. But then what would you expect from a lame-O computer that
starts up with that f***ing stupid smiley face anyway?
J
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
tinman
<good...@email.msn.com> wrote:
G2s? Gee, who makes them?
BTW, your slip is showing.....('
--
______
tinman
J.C.
G2s? G3 subtract 1? Hah, hah, right...
I had to use in a
>> class I took last year
That would explain it... the 'last year'...
>> teachers who use macs in their lecture
Lecture? You go to university? How did you get in?
>> themselves, in contrast to those who use PCs, who almost NEVER have
>> problems.
Gee... a windows installation that works perfectly... that'll be the day... :)
(wait, i suppose they don't use windows or something...)
But then what would you expect from a lame-O computer that
>> starts up with that f***ing stupid smiley face anyway?
Just as well you contributed that well-thought out piece of conversation. I
now realize i'd rather see DOS when i boot (not)...
>G2s? Gee, who makes them?
I wonder...
>BTW, your slip is showing.....('
'Showing'? The English language is far richer than you think, tinman ;)
tinman
jay...@mailcity.com wrote:
[snip]
> >BTW, your slip is showing.....('
>
> 'Showing'? The English language is far richer than you think, tinman ;)
>
Yes, 'showing.' You did recognize the pun, I'm sure. Indeed, many fail to
recognize the richness... ('
--
______
tinman
James E Goodzeit
"tinman" <tin...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:tinman-3003...@dsl-64-34-84-49.telocity.com...
>
> G2s? Gee, who makes them?
>
>
Whatever they're called, the blue and white ones--as hideous as anything
I've ever seen. You'll have to excuse my "slip"--it's like I've just seen a
really trashy film and got the name of the main character wrong.
JG
James E Goodzeit
"J.C." <jay...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:slrn8e8pcd...@localhost.localdomain...
> >> minutes. And I know this from experience--the G2s
>
> G2s? G3 subtract 1? Hah, hah, right...
Better yet G0.
> I had to use in a
> >> class I took last year
>
> That would explain it... the 'last year'...
>
> >> teachers who use macs in their lecture
>
> Lecture? You go to university? How did you get in?
Yes I go to the University at Buffalo, and I'm hauling ass, I might add. I
suppose for someone like yourself who's probably in his forties and still
hasn't been able to obtain a GED, the fact that people are able to get into
college never ceases to amaze..
> >> themselves, in contrast to those who use PCs, who almost NEVER have
> >> problems.
>
> Gee... a windows installation that works perfectly... that'll be the
day... :)
> (wait, i suppose they don't use windows or something...)
Well it does take some modicum of competance to install Windows--something
your average drooling-idiot mac user clearly lacks--and most everyone I know
manages just fine.
> But then what would you expect from a lame-O computer that
> >> starts up with that f***ing stupid smiley face anyway?
>
> Just as well you contributed that well-thought out piece of conversation.
I
> now realize i'd rather see DOS when i boot (not)...
>
I suppose (for you) mac can be made even better---have Barney dancing around
on the screen while the thing boots up. That should amuse for the half-hour
or so it takes...
J.C.
>
>"J.C." <jay...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>news:slrn8e8pcd...@localhost.localdomain...
>> >> minutes. And I know this from experience--the G2s
>>
>> G2s? G3 subtract 1? Hah, hah, right...
>
>Better yet G0.
Hrmm... can I install OS X on it?
>
>> I had to use in a
>> >> class I took last year
>>
>> That would explain it... the 'last year'...
>>
>> >> teachers who use macs in their lecture
>>
>> Lecture? You go to university? How did you get in?
>
>Yes I go to the University at Buffalo, and I'm hauling ass, I might add.
As far as I know, you could be the janitor.
I
>suppose for someone like yourself who's probably in his forties
Am I in my forties? Yeah, right...
and still
>hasn't been able to obtain a GED, the fact that people are able to get into
>college never ceases to amaze..
*clap, clap* Originality! Hurrah! *clap, clap*
>
>> >> themselves, in contrast to those who use PCs, who almost NEVER have
>> >> problems.
>>
>> Gee... a windows installation that works perfectly... that'll be the
>day... :)
>> (wait, i suppose they don't use windows or something...)
>
>Well it does take some modicum of competance to install Windows--something
>your average drooling-idiot mac user clearly lacks
Ever considered the fact that maybe they just can't be stuffed with windows?
--and most everyone I know
>manages just fine.
*push, push* <puts a lid on the issue>
Not everyone I know manages just fine... and everyone who does, probably
can't be screwed the hassle.
Ever thought about those who don't have the knowledge to reinstall Windows
without reaming their box?
>
>> But then what would you expect from a lame-O computer that
>> >> starts up with that f***ing stupid smiley face anyway?
>>
>> Just as well you contributed that well-thought out piece of conversation.
>I
>> now realize i'd rather see DOS when i boot (not)...
>>
>
>I suppose (for you) mac can be made even better---have Barney dancing around
>on the screen while the thing boots up. That should amuse for the half-hour
>or so it takes...
Yawn. Lame...
J.C.
1. It doesn't take much brainpower to remember that the blue-and-white Macs
are called G3s. Particularly since it's on the side of the case...
Methinks that you haven't used them... or seen them, for that matter...
2. How can you watch a film and forget the name of the main character? Unless
you're asleep or something...
tinman
jay...@mailcity.com wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:54:07 -0500, James E Goodzeit
<good...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >"tinman" <tin...@mac.com> wrote in message
> >news:tinman-3003...@dsl-64-34-84-49.telocity.com...
> >>
> >> G2s? Gee, who makes them?
> >>
> >> BTW, your slip is showing.....('
> >>
> >
> >Whatever they're called, the blue and white ones--as hideous as anything
> >I've ever seen. You'll have to excuse my "slip"--it's like I've just seen a
> >really trashy film and got the name of the main character wrong.
>
> 1. It doesn't take much brainpower to remember that the blue-and-white Macs
> are called G3s. Particularly since it's on the side of the case...
>
In _really_ big letters....('
[snip]
--
______
tinman
James E Goodzeit
"tinman" <tin...@mac.com> wrote ...
> > 1. It doesn't take much brainpower to remember that the blue-and-white
Macs
> > are called G3s. Particularly since it's on the side of the case...
> >
>
> In _really_ big letters....('
>
Why is there only one mouse button on a mac?
Because mac users can't count to two.
James E Goodzeit
> 1. It doesn't take much brainpower to remember that the blue-and-white
Macs
> are called G3s. Particularly since it's on the side of the case...
And even less to realise that the blue and white macs (and all other
varieties) are over-priced hunks of junk. Though putting _G3_ in big letters
on the side doesn't help much: most of the drooling imbeciles buying them
can't read anyway.
> Methinks that you haven't used them... or seen them, for that matter...
Lo! A mac user had a thought! You must have lit up the entire sky with that
poor old neuron, though ultimately the thought proves fallacious.
> 2. How can you watch a film and forget the name of the main character?
Unless
> you're asleep or something...
What?? You must have have the attention span of a goldfish---as is typical
for a mac user--I said "not get it right," like saying "Ripley" when I meant
"Ridley." And that isn't all that hard to do---even for someone of vastly
superior intellect, as yours truely--when the film sucked big weenie---just
like all those pieces of garbage in the blue and white cases that Crapple
has foisted on the public.
James E Goodzeit
"J.C." <jay...@mailcity.com> wrote
> >Better yet G0.
>
> Hrmm... can I install OS X on it?
You really are twisted.
> As far as I know, you could be the janitor.
I happen to be a first-year CS major and an A-student. It was really
fascinating wathcing the mac users flounder in the introductory level
courses.... they're all gone now, having to actually *know* something about
computers proving too much of a challange. I think they had a half-life of
about 3 weeks in CS I.
> I
> >suppose for someone like yourself who's probably in his forties
>
> Am I in my forties? Yeah, right...
Your age is hard to tell---you have the maturity and intellect of a
five-year-old. Are Mommy and Daddy going to buy you a *real* computer when
you turn six? It's my prediction that you'll still be wearing diapers in
your forties, however.
> and still
> >hasn't been able to obtain a GED, the fact that people are able to get
into
> >college never ceases to amaze..
>
> *clap, clap* Originality! Hurrah! *clap, clap*
Damn straight. Now what about the crock of s*** about "creative" people
preferring macs.... BTW, is "creative" the newest politically correct term
for "challenged" or "special"?
> >Well it does take some modicum of competance to install
Windows--something
> >your average drooling-idiot mac user clearly lacks
>
> Ever considered the fact that maybe they just can't be stuffed with
windows?
They're getting stuffed al right....
> *push, push* <puts a lid on the issue>
Cachunk... SPLAT. *push, push* <puts lid on trash-can after disposing
another mac>
> Not everyone I know manages just fine... and everyone who does, probably
> can't be screwed the hassle.
Of course they don't.... they bought macintrashes, didn't they?
> Ever thought about those who don't have the knowledge to reinstall Windows
> without reaming their box?
Yea, they bought macs.
> >I suppose (for you) mac can be made even better---have Barney dancing
around
> >on the screen while the thing boots up. That should amuse for the
half-hour
> >or so it takes...
>
> Yawn. Lame...
Yet so appropriate for a lame system with a lame operating system and a lame
user base.
Jim Campbell
good...@email.msn.com wrote on 1/4/2000 1:17 am:
> I happen to be a first-year CS major and an A-student. It was really
> fascinating wathcing the mac users flounder in the introductory level
> courses.... they're all gone now, having to actually *know* something about
> computers proving too much of a challange. I think they had a half-life of
> about 3 weeks in CS I.
Translation: "Oh, look at me, aren't I clever? Aren't you all impressed?"
Response: "No. We're not. Some of us already have our honours degrees, thank
you very much."
> Your age is hard to tell---you have the maturity and intellect of a
> five-year-old. Are Mommy and Daddy going to buy you a *real* computer when
> you turn six? It's my prediction that you'll still be wearing diapers in
> your forties, however.
Translation: "I am a fuckwit."
Response: "Yeah, we kinda figured."
> Damn straight. Now what about the crock of s*** about "creative" people
> preferring macs.... BTW, is "creative" the newest politically correct term
> for "challenged" or "special"?
No. "Creative" is a term for people who create stuff. I'm a graphic designer
by trade and a published freelance writer in my spare time.
I posted an extensive comparison of working in my profession using a Windows
PC and a Mac about two weeks ago, which not only you but all the other
Mac-bashers on this NG chose to ignore.
Understandable, I suppose. Why let mere facts get in the way of a
semi-literate diatribe?
> Yet so appropriate for a lame system with a lame operating system and a lame
> user base.
Translation: "Not only am I a fuckwit, but I am a fuckwit intellectually
crippled by a very limited vocabulary."
Response: "Oh, sod this for a game of soldiers. Not only do you evidently
suck the cock of Satan, but apparently you swallow every last drop."
Cheers
Jim
Beast
> Like some piece of s**** mac isn't gonna crash at least every 20
> minutes. And I know this from experience--the G2s I had to use in a
> class I took last year crashed way more often than my PC at home, and
> themselves, in contrast to those who use PCs, who almost NEVER have
> starts up with that f***ing stupid smiley face anyway?
>
Why does everyone say that a pc crashes at least ever 20 mins. That's
far from true. Every comp crashes, even the game consoles. So stop
saying that a pc crashes so often, because that's bull****. It depends
on what pc you have....
--
mssl
*--/==\=@ <-- beest
-----------------------------------------------
Want money for each mail you recieve?
goto http://www.sendmoreinfo.com/id/635740!!
James E Goodzeit
"Beast" <theb...@soneramail.nl> wrote in message
news:38E5BA67...@soneramail.nl...
> Why does everyone say that a pc crashes at least ever 20 mins. That's
> far from true. Every comp crashes, even the game consoles. So stop
> saying that a pc crashes so often, because that's bull****. It depends
> on what pc you have....
>
Tell that to these mac people who think they own the perfect computer.
James E Goodzeit
"Jim Campbell" <jim.ca...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:B50B6A0A.79A9%jim.ca...@lineone.net...
> in article #wT#Mc3m$GA.198@cpmsnbbsa04, James E Goodzeit at
> good...@email.msn.com wrote on 1/4/2000 1:17 am:
>
> > I happen to be a first-year CS major and an A-student. It was really
> > fascinating wathcing the mac users flounder in the introductory level
> > courses.... they're all gone now, having to actually *know* something
about
> > computers proving too much of a challange. I think they had a half-life
of
> > about 3 weeks in CS I.
>
> Translation: "Oh, look at me, aren't I clever? Aren't you all impressed?"
I never claimed to be clever, I was merely reproving some doofus who was
wondering if my status at university might be janitor and not student.
Incidentally there is nothing wrong with being a janitor or any other blue
collar worker as this eminantly enlightened mac user assumes. And you mac
users should be impressed, after all I bought a box with twice the computing
power for half the price as you--it is understandable that you would be
bitter and connot but hurl invective at people who have better taste and
made better choices than yourself.
> Response: "No. We're not. Some of us already have our honours degrees,
thank
> you very much."
I'm talking about a university degree, not some three-week summer course in
Excel or Word Perfect at some local high school or community centre.
> > Your age is hard to tell---you have the maturity and intellect of a
> > five-year-old. Are Mommy and Daddy going to buy you a *real* computer
when
> > you turn six? It's my prediction that you'll still be wearing diapers in
> > your forties, however.
>
> Translation: "I am a fuckwit."
I see English is not your native language.
> Response: "Yeah, we kinda figured."
Considering you probably "fugured" that mac was the way to go, your response
is content-free.
> > Damn straight. Now what about the crock of s*** about "creative" people
> > preferring macs.... BTW, is "creative" the newest politically correct
term
> > for "challenged" or "special"?
>
> No. "Creative" is a term for people who create stuff. I'm a graphic
designer
> by trade and a published freelance writer in my spare time.
Then is a St. Bernard is "creative" because it "creates" a little brown heap
on your lawn?
So you're a graphic designer? That explains a lot. Now there's an inbred
cottage-industry if ever there was one.
> I posted an extensive comparison of working in my profession using a
Windows
> PC and a Mac about two weeks ago, which not only you but all the other
> Mac-bashers on this NG chose to ignore.
Sorry I missed that one, else I would have picked apart your harebrained
arguments one by one. I will, however, be sure to catch it on Deja-news for
some good laughs.
> Understandable, I suppose. Why let mere facts get in the way of a
> semi-literate diatribe?
And there you have it, the unstated subtext in all of apple's ads.
> > Yet so appropriate for a lame system with a lame operating system and a
lame
> > user base.
>
> Translation: "Not only am I a fuckwit, but I am a fuckwit intellectually
> crippled by a very limited vocabulary."
Either that's a non sequitur or there's a leopard-spotted rhinoceros sipping
tea on my front porch.
> Response: "Oh, sod this for a game of soldiers. Not only do you evidently
> suck the cock of Satan, but apparently you swallow every last drop."
And *you* accuse *me* of being crippled by a limited vocabulary.
Jim Campbell
good...@email.msn.com wrote on 1/4/2000 3:28 pm:
> I never claimed to be clever, I was merely reproving some doofus who was
> wondering if my status at university might be janitor and not student.
> Incidentally there is nothing wrong with being a janitor or any other blue
> collar worker as this eminantly enlightened mac user assumes. And you mac
> users should be impressed, after all I bought a box with twice the computing
> power for half the price as you--it is understandable that you would be
> bitter and connot but hurl invective at people who have better taste and
> made better choices than yourself.
I won't inflict the comparison post referred to later on the group again,
but expect in your inbox sometime soon ... I look forward to your thoughts.
> I'm talking about a university degree, not some three-week summer course in
> Excel or Word Perfect at some local high school or community centre.
Three years getting an honours degree in from the University of London,
actually ... and _you_ got all sniffy because someone else doubted _your_
academic prowess.
> I see English is not your native language.
More native to me than you - we invented it, thanks.
>> Response: "Yeah, we kinda figured."
>
> Considering you probably "fugured" that mac was the way to go, your response
> is content-free.
"Fugured"? Huh? What _are_ you talking about, you strange person? Or are you
resorting to inventing non-existent typos to try and score a cheap point?
> Then is a St. Bernard is "creative" because it "creates" a little brown heap
> on your lawn?
> So you're a graphic designer? That explains a lot. Now there's an inbred
> cottage-industry if ever there was one.
Well, you _asked_ what 'creative' meant. Given that every piece of
packaging, poster, flyer, book, magazine and newspaper has received the
attention of at least one graphic designer, I can see why you might consider
it an insignificant profession ...
> Sorry I missed that one, else I would have picked apart your harebrained
> arguments one by one. I will, however, be sure to catch it on Deja-news for
> some good laughs.
Expect it shortly. See above.
>> Understandable, I suppose. Why let mere facts get in the way of a
>> semi-literate diatribe?
>
> And there you have it, the unstated subtext in all of apple's ads.
Oh, a neat side-step.
>>> Yet so appropriate for a lame system with a lame operating system and a
> lame
>>> user base.
>>
>> Translation: "Not only am I a fuckwit, but I am a fuckwit intellectually
>> crippled by a very limited vocabulary."
>
> Either that's a non sequitur or there's a leopard-spotted rhinoceros sipping
> tea on my front porch.
No ... I would suggest that the use of the word 'lame' three times in the
same sentence indicates precisely that. You'll find Marx's 'rhetorical list
of three' works best if you use different adjectives in each point ...
>> Response: "Oh, sod this for a game of soldiers. Not only do you evidently
>> suck the cock of Satan, but apparently you swallow every last drop."
> And *you* accuse *me* of being crippled by a limited vocabulary.
No ... read it carefully (out loud if you have to) and observe the variety
of nouns and verbs. It's a paraphrasing of part of a routine by the
much-missed Bill Hicks.
Cheers
Jim
J.C.
>
>"Jim Campbell" <jim.ca...@lineone.net> wrote in message
>news:B50B6A0A.79A9%jim.ca...@lineone.net...
>> in article #wT#Mc3m$GA.198@cpmsnbbsa04, James E Goodzeit at
>> good...@email.msn.com wrote on 1/4/2000 1:17 am:
>>
>> > I happen to be a first-year CS major and an A-student.
Big deal. You get an F in maturity.
As far as we know, you very well might not be a uni student. You could be a D+
student. Talk is cheap.
It was really
>> > fascinating wathcing the mac users flounder in the introductory level
>> > courses.... they're all gone now, having to actually *know* something
>about
>> > computers proving too much of a challange. I think they had a half-life
>of
>> > about 3 weeks in CS I.
So the fact that you persevered gives you the right to insult those who dropped out?
>> Translation: "Oh, look at me, aren't I clever? Aren't you all impressed?"
>
>I never claimed to be clever,
We can read between the lines, thanks.
I was merely reproving some doofus who was
>wondering if my status at university might be janitor and not student.
You don't write much like a uni student...
>Incidentally there is nothing wrong with being a janitor or any other blue
>collar worker as this eminantly enlightened mac user assumes.
Takes the moral high ground... I'm impressed.
And you mac
>users should be impressed, after all I bought a box with twice the computing
>power for half the price as you--
*cough* Yippee. You bought a box with twice the _clock_speed_? I'd bet that
would be far closer to the truth.
Fine then. Tell me, what mac do I have? Only if you know, can you compare
speeds... (this'll be fun...)
it is understandable that you would be
>bitter and connot but hurl invective at people who have better taste and
>made better choices than yourself.
We're going to 'hurl invective' at people who buy a different computer to us?
Are you serious?
'better choices'? Sounds more applicable to a line of work, or university
course, or vocation, or something with a bit more philosophical baggage
than computing...
>> Response: "No. We're not. Some of us already have our honours degrees,
>thank
>> you very much."
>
>I'm talking about a university degree, not some three-week summer course in
>Excel or Word Perfect at some local high school or community centre.
Mac users can't get uni degrees? Since when?
[snip]
>Then is a St. Bernard is "creative" because it "creates" a little brown heap
>on your lawn?
What does that have to do with anything?
>So you're a graphic designer? That explains a lot. Now there's an inbred
>cottage-industry if ever there was one.
Hah. That's really lame. What you're saying is that graphic design is a
dimwit's industry? It'll be a sad day when noone holds true creativity in
high regard...
[snip]
James Goodzeit
jay...@mailcity.com wrote:
> >> > I happen to be a first-year CS major and an A-student.
>
> Big deal. You get an F in maturity.
Isn't it time someone changed your diapers? But then you bought a mac;
you must like wallowing in excrement.
> As far as we know, you very well might not be a uni student. You could
be a D+
> student. Talk is cheap.
I could care less what you think and my resume will speak for itself.
Talk might be cheap, but it's still too valuable to waste on a schmuck
like yourself.
James Goodzeit
who dropped out?
Only those dumb enough to be using macs--like NASCAR drivers who race in
Yugos.
> >> Translation: "Oh, look at me, aren't I clever? Aren't you all
impressed?"
> >
> >I never claimed to be clever,
>
> We can read between the lines, thanks.
Speak for yourself.
James Goodzeit
> >wondering if my status at university might be janitor and not
student.
>
> You don't write much like a uni student...
I think you've lost me and everyone else on this one. Could you explain
yourself.
> >Incidentally there is nothing wrong with being a janitor or any other
blue
> >collar worker as this eminantly enlightened mac user assumes.
>
> Takes the moral high ground... I'm impressed.
That wasn't meant to impress (though given your severe defecit of
intellect, *you* might be impressed)--I happen to have worked a blue
collar job for 5 years before going back to college, and many of my
friends hold blue collar jobs. If someone were to make an ignorant
remark "AIDS is God's cure for homosexuality," because you are gay, you
would take the moral high ground.
James Goodzeit
> >users should be impressed, after all I bought a box with twice the
computing
> >power for half the price as you--
>
> *cough* Yippee. You bought a box with twice the _clock_speed_? I'd bet
that
> would be far closer to the truth.
I said "computing power," shitferbrains. Learn to read.
> Fine then. Tell me, what mac do I have? Only if you know, can you
compare
> speeds... (this'll be fun...)
I don't see any SPEC benchmarks for your beloved macintoys.... Looks
like crapple maid some claims and now is too chickenshit to put its
money where its mouth is.
> it is understandable that you would be
> >bitter and connot but hurl invective at people who have better taste
and
> >made better choices than yourself.
>
> We're going to 'hurl invective' at people who buy a different computer
to us?
> Are you serious?
Damn straignt. A simple review of deja-news bears out the fact: there
are a legions of macintrash users who have nothing more intelligent to
say--nothing better to do with their time--than to parrot "Loseblows
sux! Mac rulz!"
> 'better choices'? Sounds more applicable to a line of work, or
university
> course, or vocation, or something with a bit more philosophical
baggage
> than computing...
Only if crapple were to go out of business.
> >I'm talking about a university degree, not some three-week summer
course in
> >Excel or Word Perfect at some local high school or community centre.
>
> Mac users can't get uni degrees? Since when?
They can probably get Liberal Arts degrees. But CS--or engineering, or
sciences--are out the question. The mac user buys his macintoy because
he feels intimidated by computers, and figures a mac will be no harder
to use than a VCR---which is a big LIE in itself.
> >Then is a St. Bernard is "creative" because it "creates" a little
brown heap
> >on your lawn?
>
> What does that have to do with anything?
You're taking things out of context. Anyway it has more to do with macs
than you realise.
> >So you're a graphic designer? That explains a lot. Now there's an
inbred
> >cottage-industry if ever there was one.
>
> Hah. That's really lame. What you're saying is that graphic design is
a
> dimwit's industry?
Well given the statistics on what platform they prefer.... yes.
It'll be a sad day when noone holds true creativity in
> high regard...
>
Creativity is overvalued in our culture--in particular as a substitute
for competance--though this is a moot point for you, since you lack
both. Anyway, much of what gets passed off as "creativity" these days is
dubious at best, though the marketing division of crapple exploits this
fact to great effect.
Graham Gentleman
James E Goodzeit wrote:
> "J.C." <jay...@mailcity.com> wrote
>
> > As far as I know, you could be the janitor.
>
> I happen to be a first-year CS major and an A-student. It was really
> fascinating wathcing the mac users flounder in the introductory level
> courses.... they're all gone now, having to actually *know* something about
> computers proving too much of a challange. I think they had a half-life of
> about 3 weeks in CS I.
I've been using Macs since 1985, I am currently in the top of my class at
Sheridan College for first year Systems Analyst (which has the same ciruiculum
as first year computer science and programming). Buddy, my knowledge towards
computers is extensive, perhaps it's some sort of feat considering I'm typing
this on a Mac right now...but I doubt it.
--
Graham Gentleman
"There are three kinds of people in the world...those who can count and those
who cannot."
Graham Gentleman
James E Goodzeit wrote:
> "tinman" <tin...@mac.com> wrote ...
> > > 1. It doesn't take much brainpower to remember that the blue-and-white
> Macs
> > > are called G3s. Particularly since it's on the side of the case...
> > >
> >
> > In _really_ big letters....('
> >
>
> Why is there only one mouse button on a mac?
>
> Because mac users can't count to two.
Well, after reading some of your previous threads...you seem to be having a
problem counting to three (G2's, Ha ha ha ha...what a maroon!!)
Jamie Kelly
people have too much anger building up inside you, why don't you go out from
time to time, maybe make some friends, then you could stop slagging each
other off through newsgroups.
By the way, I'm a Mac User, but I have a life as well.
James Goodzeit
I agree. There are some people who just seethe with hatred, hatred
directly mostly against Microsoft and people who prefer to use their
products. These bags of poison are usually Mac users---though in no way
representative of the majority of Mac users, most of whom are decent,
rational people like you and me--and Linux users, and seem to have
nothing better to do with their time than spew vitreol against MS and
Windows users, rationalising their blind hatred with whatever act of
intellectual dishonesty or popular rumour that serves their purpose. I
hold nothing against these people, who like snakes, cannot choose but
strike with poison fang.
James
Matt Gaia
>nothing better to do with their time than spew vitreol against MS and
>Windows users, rationalising their blind hatred with whatever act of
>intellectual dishonesty or popular rumour that serves their purpose.
Hey, Linux users, like myself, don't really have to rationalize. Windows
code, when compared to unix code well, just plain sucks. I think the
daily BSOD's in Windows and the rare crash in a Unix-based system
speaks for itself. It's not a matter of dishonesty or rumor, but simply
that of finding a better alternative to Windows. Yes, it may offend some
people (read Winvocates) that people, like myself, perfer something other
than MS products, but hey, no one can tell you what to use.
Ken Webber
good...@email.msn.com wrote on 3/30/00 11:43 AM:
> In article <jec-260300...@28.lapuente-01rs13-14rt.ca.dial-
> access.att.net>,
> j...@b2mac1.jpl.nasa.gov (Eric Clark) wrote:
>> Jealous of not crashing every 2 hours?
>>
>> E
>>
>
> Like some piece of s**** mac isn't gonna crash at least every 20
> minutes. And I know this from experience--the G2s I had to use in a
> class I took last year crashed way more often than my PC at home, and
> teachers who use macs in their lecture are perpetually embarrassing
> themselves, in contrast to those who use PCs, who almost NEVER have
> problems. But then what would you expect from a lame-O computer that
> starts up with that f***ing stupid smiley face anyway?
Of course they kept crashing! You were using imaginary computers!
As for my G4.. well, I haven't crashed it in just a little over two months..
Frequent reboots from Software installs have been my only plague..
James E Goodzeit
"Ken Webber" <sub...@interbaun.com> wrote[snip]
Will you clowns ever quit beating that dead horse of a typo I made OVER TWO
WEEKS AGO???
James E Goodzeit
"Matt Gaia" <mg...@cis.ysu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.100041...@frodo.cis.ysu.edu...
I see that I really hit the nail on the head with my previous post ;-)
Ken Webber
good...@email.msn.com wrote on 4/11/00 2:46 PM:
>
> "Ken Webber" <sub...@interbaun.com> wrote[snip]
>
> Will you clowns ever quit beating that dead horse of a typo I made OVER TWO
> WEEKS AGO???
Sorry man! I couldn't help it.. I just joined this thread and found that
one staring me right in the face and hearing this voice say "you must
reply... you MUST reply".. ;)
Matt Gaia
>I see that I really hit the nail on the head with my previous post ;-)
Actually, no, you didn't. *grin* You said *ahem*:
and Linux users, and seem to have
nothing better to do with their time than spew vitreol against MS and
Windows users, rationalising their blind hatred with whatever act of
intellectual dishonesty or popular rumour that serves their purpose.
which of course, in most cases, is not true, since, as I stated before,
that Linux Advocates have found that Linux is a much better alternative to
Windows. If you would like some objective proof, ask the average Windows
user how many BSOD's they have come across in one day. Then ask a Linux
user how often they have to reboot in that same period. Chances are, your
numbers are going to be a lot higher for the first question, than for the
second.
So you're probably going to say "How about a real world example," right?
Well, my dual boot box (98SE and Mandrake 7.0), Mandrake froze once,
because of setting up a new network card wrong, since the middle of
January, and I've been having to restart Windows roughly once a day for
things like memory leaks. On my linux box, well, it's been up and running
smooth for 4+ months now.
So I guess how my compters run is intellectual dishonesty, huh? And
personally, I have nothing against Windows users, just Windows. Oh, and
by the way, thank you for letting me disprove you once again. :)
Matt
James Goodzeit
> Sorry man! I couldn't help it.. I just joined this thread and found
that
> one staring me right in the face and hearing this voice say "you must
> reply... you MUST reply".. ;)
>
No problem, man... It seems to be impossible, when taking out all these
lice, silverfish, dust mites, and cockroaches, to avoid causing some
collateral damage ;)
James Goodzeit
I suppose you could be getting daily BSODs because you're a boob and
don't have any idea what you're doing. And a BSOD is a misnomer, since
more often than not the system is able to recover. I run Windows 98SE at
home every day and get a BSOD maybe once a month, as do a lot of other
Windows users I know. Most crashes are caused by faulty applications and
drivers---not the operating system--come back when you're running
software from as many vendors as Windows does now and we can compare
notes as to which OS is more stable. Oh, and I use Solaris almost every
day as well, and I can vouch that running a Unix-based system is no
garden of sweets.
> So I guess how my compters run is intellectual dishonesty, huh? And
> personally, I have nothing against Windows users, just Windows. Oh,
and
> by the way, thank you for letting me disprove you once again. :)
Again? You haven't disproved me a first time.
> Matt
>
>
--
I lost my sig!
Ken Webber
good...@email.msn.com wrote on 4/12/00 12:09 PM:
> I suppose you could be getting daily BSODs because you're a boob and
> don't have any idea what you're doing. And a BSOD is a misnomer, since
> more often than not the system is able to recover. I run Windows 98SE at
> home every day and get a BSOD maybe once a month, as do a lot of other
> Windows users I know. Most crashes are caused by faulty applications and
> drivers---not the operating system--come back when you're running
> software from as many vendors as Windows does now and we can compare
> notes as to which OS is more stable. Oh, and I use Solaris almost every
> day as well, and I can vouch that running a Unix-based system is no
> garden of sweets.
Well, moving back to the Mac topic, I used Linux only a bit.. found it a bit
of a pain to run just because it was new to me.. (would like to give it
another try once I get a hold of a PC to run Corel on.. so far I am not
impressed the least by LinuxPPC but I think it is because of the roundabout
way they have to code the kernel)..
I am a primarily a Mac and Windows user (Mac at home with a bit of Windows
under VPC for specific tasks, and Windows primarily at work with some Mac
use as clients require).. I would say I use about as much of a variety of
software vendors on my Mac as any Windows user I have ever encountered and I
still have fewer crashes on my G4 than most people I know.. Without going
into specifics, the only Apple branded stuff I'm running right now is the
computer, the MacOS, and Clarisworks 4 which I keep only because I have a
couple of schedule templates that I did up on my 6400/180 that seemed
easiest on CW.. All my peripherals down to the keyboard, mouse and SCSI
stuff are all third party peripherals. As for software, I have a dozen
games, a bunch of shareware, office packages and development packages all
loaded up on here and chugging along without a problem..
My system hasn't crashed in months, save for the driver problem I had with
the Voodoo2 1000's OpenGL renderer bringing down QuakeII once (disable 3Dfx
beta OpenGL extension in Conflict Catcher, all is well)..
Shice Beoney
turned alt.flame.macintosh into a house of lies with the following
slanderous slander:
>in article 8d2e3q$320$1...@nnrp1.deja.com, James Goodzeit at
>good...@email.msn.com wrote on 4/12/00 12:09 PM:
>
>> I suppose you could be getting daily BSODs because you're a boob and
>> don't have any idea what you're doing. And a BSOD is a misnomer, since
>> more often than not the system is able to recover. I run Windows 98SE at
>> home every day and get a BSOD maybe once a month, as do a lot of other
>> Windows users I know. Most crashes are caused by faulty applications and
>> drivers---not the operating system--come back when you're running
>> software from as many vendors as Windows does now and we can compare
>> notes as to which OS is more stable. Oh, and I use Solaris almost every
>> day as well, and I can vouch that running a Unix-based system is no
>> garden of sweets.
>
>Well, moving back to the Mac topic, I used Linux only a bit.. found it a bit
>of a pain to run just because it was new to me.. (would like to give it
>another try once I get a hold of a PC to run Corel on..
You might also want to try BeOS, if your hardware is compatible. As a
Mac user, you'll probably like it a lot more than Linux.
>so far I am not
>impressed the least by LinuxPPC but I think it is because of the roundabout
>way they have to code the kernel)..
Actually, I think that's MkLinux... there's an extra layer of
abstraction involved in the communication that has to be done between
the Linux kernel and the Mach microkernel. From what I've read, OS X
will also use a similar method to allow you to run older Mac programs
in it. So OS 8/9 stuff will probably run slower in OS X.
<snip>
--
"At its worst, college will reinforce an inbred intellectual
smugness, dress it in facts, and provide you with a document
asserting your immunity to all future intellectual experience."
-Paul Lutus
Remove Head_From_Arse to reply
James Goodzeit
> in article 8d2e3q$320$1...@nnrp1.deja.com, James Goodzeit at
a bit
> of a pain to run just because it was new to me.. (would like to give
it
not
> impressed the least by LinuxPPC but I think it is because of the
roundabout
> way they have to code the kernel)..
>
Windows
> under VPC for specific tasks, and Windows primarily at work with some
Mac
> use as clients require).. I would say I use about as much of a
variety of
> software vendors on my Mac as any Windows user I have ever encountered
and I
> still have fewer crashes on my G4 than most people I know..
It probably is true that Macs crash less frequently than PCs, though
some quantification of just how much would be problematic to say the
least. It's just when some people start ranting about the number of
BSODs that occur in any given day on their Windows boxes that their
claims become dubious.
> Without going
> into specifics, the only Apple branded stuff I'm running right now is
the
> computer, the MacOS, and Clarisworks 4 which I keep only because I
have a
> couple of schedule templates that I did up on my 6400/180 that seemed
> easiest on CW..
But you still have one company making both the primary hardware AND the
OS--which is a distinct advantage over the entire PC world.
> All my peripherals down to the keyboard, mouse and SCSI
> stuff are all third party peripherals.
I've never had problems with peripherals crashing the system... Just
peripherals that tend not to cooperate with one another--or even a SCSI
adapter that only worked intermittantly with the first motherboard I was
using.
> As for software, I have a dozen
> games, a bunch of shareware, office packages and development packages
all
> loaded up on here and chugging along without a problem..
Like I said above: same company for both system and OS. Also third party
applications are like an unlucky lottery. Most of them--even when rather
poorly written--don't cause problems, it's just that bad one that screws
everything up.
> My system hasn't crashed in months, save for the driver problem I had
with
> the Voodoo2 1000's OpenGL renderer bringing down QuakeII once (disable
3Dfx
> beta OpenGL extension in Conflict Catcher, all is well)..
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Shice Beoney
<good...@email.msn.com> turned alt.flame.macintosh into a house of
lies with the following slanderous slander:
>Ken Webber <sub...@interbaun.com> wrote:
>> in article 8d2e3q$320$1...@nnrp1.deja.com, James Goodzeit at
>> Well, moving back to the Mac topic, I used Linux only a bit.. found it
<snip>
>> Without going
>> into specifics, the only Apple branded stuff I'm running right now is
>the
>> computer, the MacOS, and Clarisworks 4 which I keep only because I
>have a
>> couple of schedule templates that I did up on my 6400/180 that seemed
>> easiest on CW..
>
>But you still have one company making both the primary hardware AND the
>OS--which is a distinct advantage over the entire PC world.
So... that would make Sun the best mfgr, right?
The only one with an "advantage" in that situation is Apple. While I
on the other hand could get a dual PIII system for roughly the same
cost as a nicely loaded G4.
James E Goodzeit
"Shice Beoney" <sbeoney@HEAD_FROM_ARSEflashmail.com> wrote
news:72kcfs0j6v3k8eaf5...@4ax.com...
> >But you still have one company making both the primary hardware AND the
> >OS--which is a distinct advantage over the entire PC world.
>
> So... that would make Sun the best mfgr, right?
Egads No! They still manage to SUCK in spite of this advantage.
Ken Webber
sbeoney@HEAD_FROM_ARSEflashmail.com wrote on 4/12/00 8:32 PM:
> You might also want to try BeOS, if your hardware is compatible. As a
> Mac user, you'll probably like it a lot more than Linux.
Oh, really?.. I thought they were not developing for G3/G4 macs because
Apple doesn't allow the specs to be released.. Will check that out.. (I
tried Be when it first came out and ran it on my 6400/180.. VERY sweet..
only thing was I couldn't use my Asante ethernet card or anything like that
with it.)
> Actually, I think that's MkLinux... there's an extra layer of
> abstraction involved in the communication that has to be done between
> the Linux kernel and the Mach microkernel. From what I've read, OS X
> will also use a similar method to allow you to run older Mac programs
> in it. So OS 8/9 stuff will probably run slower in OS X.
I know LinuxPPC (at least the version I have) had its problems with G4s,
again because of Apple's reluctance to release detailed specs on the systems
to the developers.. Since they have to backward-compile the kernel, more
bugs show up.. LPPC 2000 is out now though.. might make it a shot.. :)
Ken Webber
good...@email.msn.com wrote on 4/13/00 11:57 AM:
> It probably is true that Macs crash less frequently than PCs, though
> some quantification of just how much would be problematic to say the
> least. It's just when some people start ranting about the number of
> BSODs that occur in any given day on their Windows boxes that their
> claims become dubious.
I hear you..
On the PC side, it depends as well on the manufacture of the computers.. In
my workplace I see much more problems coming from Aptivas and Presarios that
I've ever seen from some of our Supercom (Touch) or Seanix systems.. HPs
aren't so bad, but some people still insist on putting big video cards into
those puny little cases with the 100W power supply and cry when it won't
work.. Dell's aren't too bad.. We get a few of them back crashed when some
doorknob decides that he wants to use generic RAM in his dimension.. (very
stupid.. just like putting generic RAM into a Presario..)
Of course you will get crashes if your computer isn't being treated right..
I got a lot of system errors after beefing up my Performa 6400/180 and
couldn't figure out what was wrong.. Turned out that I had a problem with
the USB card I'd installed in it.. Bought a non-peice-of-shit card and
*POOF* the problems went away.. (hint - always buy Entrega USB stuff over
Belkin.. you'll save yourself a lot of hassle!)
> But you still have one company making both the primary hardware AND the
> OS--which is a distinct advantage over the entire PC world.
Oh, absolutely!.. That is the single major advantage that Mac users have, I
find.. Because the Operating system is built to run on exactly the kind of
computer system I have, it saves a huge amount of headaches.. To the same
point, though, I do have quite a number of clients running PowerTowers with
XLR8 upgrade cards in them and they are still chirping about how sweet their
computers run at all.. And these were not built by Apple at all (save for
the boot ROMs they used).. There's a lot to be said for the overall
architecture of the computers and the OS as well working together very
smoothly.. (like the elimination of problems with my three least favorite
letters.. "IRQ".. whenever I hear those at work I cringe)..
> I've never had problems with peripherals crashing the system... Just
> peripherals that tend not to cooperate with one another--or even a SCSI
> adapter that only worked intermittantly with the first motherboard I was
> using.
Well, SCSI seems to be a bane of headaches for quite a number of people I
talk to.. With the devices, I find A LOT of peripherals tend to cause
crashes, moreso because of their drivers not being done right.. I ran into
that myself before..
> Like I said above: same company for both system and OS. Also third party
> applications are like an unlucky lottery. Most of them--even when rather
> poorly written--don't cause problems, it's just that bad one that screws
> everything up.
It's the software that causes the most problems.. In fact, the last stats to
come down in our tech services department listed software conflicts covering
over 85% of all computer related problems to get booked in.. All of them
being fixed the same way - full system restoration.. Lately the big culprit
seems to be Norton Systemworks 2000.. People insist on installing that
garbage Crashguard on their systems even after we tell them explicitly that
it doesn't work.
Ken Webber
sbeoney@HEAD_FROM_ARSEflashmail.com wrote on 4/13/00 4:57 PM:
> So... that would make Sun the best mfgr, right?
>
> The only one with an "advantage" in that situation is Apple. While I
> on the other hand could get a dual PIII system for roughly the same
> cost as a nicely loaded G4.
The bottom line, though, is that you will still be running Windows on it, at
least part of the time, until more applications become available for Linux..
On my G4, I still have the pleasure of running the MacOS.. Which, IMHO, is
worth the extra grand that I put into it.
I do wish Apple hadn't killed cloning, myself, because then I wouldn't have
had to pay this kind of money for a computer.. (a PowerTower would've
rocked!).. but I can see why they did it.. Just one look at IBM tells a long
and sad story..
Shice Beoney
turned alt.flame.macintosh into a house of lies with the following
slanderous slander:
>in article 88cafsoovhg4dd202...@4ax.com, Shice Beoney at
>sbeoney@HEAD_FROM_ARSEflashmail.com wrote on 4/12/00 8:32 PM:
>
>> You might also want to try BeOS, if your hardware is compatible. As a
>> Mac user, you'll probably like it a lot more than Linux.
>
>Oh, really?.. I thought they were not developing for G3/G4 macs because
>Apple doesn't allow the specs to be released..
They aren't... I thought you'd mentioned something about trying Linux
on a PC in your post though. However, a BeOS compatible PC-based
system is very inexpensive to be had nowadays, it'll run quite nicely
on a P166 or P200 (or if you want to see how well it does with SMP,
there are probably some dual P-Pro 200 systems floating around).
>Will check that out.. (I
>tried Be when it first came out and ran it on my 6400/180.. VERY sweet..
>only thing was I couldn't use my Asante ethernet card or anything like that
>with it.)
That has been, and still is, the biggest problem they have, lack of
hardware support.
>> Actually, I think that's MkLinux... there's an extra layer of
>> abstraction involved in the communication that has to be done between
>> the Linux kernel and the Mach microkernel. From what I've read, OS X
>> will also use a similar method to allow you to run older Mac programs
>> in it. So OS 8/9 stuff will probably run slower in OS X.
>
>I know LinuxPPC (at least the version I have) had its problems with G4s,
>again because of Apple's reluctance to release detailed specs on the systems
>to the developers.. Since they have to backward-compile the kernel, more
>bugs show up.. LPPC 2000 is out now though.. might make it a shot.. :)
There's also Yellow Dog Linux, Debian Linux, and TurboLinux PPC.
There's a decent article in this month's Maximum Linux magazine called
"Giving Your Mac The Bird" that describes the options available for
this wishing to run Linux on a Mac.
Shice Beoney
turned alt.flame.macintosh into a house of lies with the following
slanderous slander:
>in article 72kcfs0j6v3k8eaf5...@4ax.com, Shice Beoney at
>sbeoney@HEAD_FROM_ARSEflashmail.com wrote on 4/13/00 4:57 PM:
>
>
>> So... that would make Sun the best mfgr, right?
>>
>> The only one with an "advantage" in that situation is Apple. While I
>> on the other hand could get a dual PIII system for roughly the same
>> cost as a nicely loaded G4.
>
>The bottom line, though, is that you will still be running Windows on it,
As seldom as is humanly possible. I managed to get BeOS installed on
my work computer (scavenged/traded a compatible video card with a
co-worker) and 95% of the stuff I do during the day can be done
without Windows. Before rebooting to get in a few network games of
Quake, the About box told me I'd been running BeOS for about 5.5 days.
Besides, no one in their right mind would buy a multi-processor box to
run Windows. For one, Win98 can't use more than one CPU and actually
DISABLES the second one (meaning you need to do a hard reboot for it
to work again in any OS that can handle it). And the versions of
Windows that CAN take advantage of it (eg, Win2k, NT) don't do a very
good job. NT itself doesn't benefit AT ALL from a second CPU, only
certain programs written with support for it do, such as PhotoShop. 2k
is a little better, the OS can actually benefit from it, but only for
a measly 20% speed boost. And I've heard that just to get 2k to
recognize the second CPU requires some kind of convoluted circle-jerk
involving, of course, several reboots.
BeOS on the other hand does it automatically. And because it was
designed with SMP in mind (and is completely multi-threaded), you get
anywhere from 70% to 95% speed boost from adding a second processor.
>at
>least part of the time, until more applications become available for Linux..
>On my G4, I still have the pleasure of running the MacOS.. Which, IMHO, is
>worth the extra grand that I put into it.
If I could get a dual G4 that would run BeOS, it'd be on the short
list of potential candidates for my next machine. Since Apple seems to
not want my money however, I'm more than happy to give it to geektek
or bemachines.
>I do wish Apple hadn't killed cloning, myself, because then I wouldn't have
>had to pay this kind of money for a computer.. (a PowerTower would've
>rocked!).. but I can see why they did it.. Just one look at IBM tells a long
>and sad story..
That's what happens when a company decides they want to have their
cake and eat it to, an axiom which has more or less been superceded by
"be both a software and a hardware company and do both successfully".
Apple should have outsourced their hardware years ago and concentrated
on the OS, it sure as hell wouldn't have taken them ten years to come
up with a modern OS then.
Ken Webber
sbeoney@HEAD_FROM_ARSEflashmail.com wrote on 4/14/00 7:23 PM:
> BeOS on the other hand does it automatically. And because it was
> designed with SMP in mind (and is completely multi-threaded), you get
> anywhere from 70% to 95% speed boost from adding a second processor.
I've seen in its hayday dual 9600's a few years back when I got my first
Mac.. That would've been pretty neat to run Be on (in fact, I think Be was
building such computers based on the dual 604e for BeBoxes)..
Dual G4s with the ability to run Be on it would just rock.. 'Specially if it
took full advantage of the VE and 128bit memory bus on the new MBs..
> If I could get a dual G4 that would run BeOS, it'd be on the short
> list of potential candidates for my next machine. Since Apple seems to
> not want my money however, I'm more than happy to give it to geektek
> or bemachines.
<sigh>.. It would be nice if Apple realized that they make at least some of
their money on hardware in relation to their OS.. Maybe when IBM gets their
CHRP machines back off the ground things will be better..
Deacon
good...@email.msn.com whispered on 4/10/00 12:18 PM:
> In article <B51617B7.712%jamie...@mac.com>,
> Jamie Kelly <jamie...@mac.com> wrote:
>> What a bunch of nobheads, what does it matter which computer you use?
> You
>> people have too much anger building up inside you, why don't you go
> out from
>> time to time, maybe make some friends, then you could stop slagging
> each
>> other off through newsgroups.
>>
>> By the way, I'm a Mac User, but I have a life as well.
>>
>>
>
> I agree. There are some people who just seethe with hatred, hatred
> directly mostly against Microsoft and people who prefer to use their
> products. These bags of poison are usually Mac users---though in no way
> representative of the majority of Mac users, most of whom are decent,
> rational people like you and me--and Linux users, and seem to have
> nothing better to do with their time than spew vitreol against MS and
> Windows users, rationalising their blind hatred with whatever act of
> intellectual dishonesty or popular rumour that serves their purpose. I
> hold nothing against these people, who like snakes, cannot choose but
> strike with poison fang.
>
> James
...except for the vast majority of Winbashers who happen to be the ones that
are slaves to the products and the whim of MS. Orphan OS users count for
nothing when you consider how many of those who truly hate MS are the ones
forced to use the products.
VVV
Deacon
A faith that cannot survive collision with the truth is not worth many
regrets.
--Arthur C. Clarke
Deacon
good...@email.msn.com whispered on 4/12/00 12:09 PM:
>
>
> I suppose you could be getting daily BSODs because you're a boob and
> don't have any idea what you're doing. And a BSOD is a misnomer, since
> more often than not the system is able to recover. I run Windows 98SE at
> home every day and get a BSOD maybe once a month, as do a lot of other
> Windows users I know. Most crashes are caused by faulty applications and
> drivers---not the operating system--come back when you're running
> software from as many vendors as Windows does now and we can compare
> notes as to which OS is more stable.
Windows has no mechanism for tracking the myriad of changes made to the
registry, and that's were the vast majority of the problems originate.
Why do you think you have to reinstall all your apps when IE stomps all over
your registry?
VVV
Deacon
Only fraud and falsehood dread examination. Truth invites it.
--Thomas Cooper (1759-1839)
Deacon
sub...@interbaun.com whispered on 4/11/00 1:09 PM:
Add to that the fact that the biggest problems Macs have in schools are the
MCSE robots who refuse to look after them. Some of the bullshit these test
monkeys spout will make you wince, to wit:
Macs can't connect to Win95 boxes, Macs can't connect to NT, Macs can't surf
the web, Macs can't use Office, Outlook, IE, blah blah blah...
Exactly when did service departments get the upper hand? Exactly why do
users put up with lies from the MCSE monkeys whose salaries were never
factored into to all 'cost-cutting' that was going to magically appear when
a Wintel only policy was instituted?
Bah!
VVV
Deacon
The notion of primitive man possessing some inner peace which we civilized
people have somehow lost, and need to regain, is a lot of nonsense. Your
average New Guinea native lives not only in fear of his enemies, but in
terror-struck dread of the unknown.
--Gordon Linsley
Deacon
good...@email.msn.com whispered on 4/11/00 2:46 PM:
>
> "Ken Webber" <sub...@interbaun.com> wrote[snip]
>
> Will you clowns ever quit beating that dead horse of a typo I made OVER TWO
> WEEKS AGO???
>
>
>
Not if it generates posts like that one.....
Ken Webber
deaco...@my-deja.com wrote on 4/16/00 3:55 AM:
> Macs can't connect to Win95 boxes, Macs can't connect to NT, Macs can't surf
> the web, Macs can't use Office, Outlook, IE, blah blah blah...
<laugh>... Actually, out of the box, Mac's can't connect to W95 or W98
boxes.. You need something like DAVE or PC-MacLAN to do that.. but other
than that, exactly.. Even better, you can't use a Macintosh server to serve
PCs.. (Appleshare IP can do this just fine - not to mention with less
headache then NT)..
> Exactly when did service departments get the upper hand? Exactly why do
> users put up with lies from the MCSE monkeys whose salaries were never
> factored into to all 'cost-cutting' that was going to magically appear when
> a Wintel only policy was instituted?
Companies rarely look at the big picture when they institute this kind of
policy.. The Wintel only policy to "save money" seems to fall in the same
category as a firm I know of ran into.. The company had to receive its stock
from its distributor by rail in Ontario.. The company would send in the
order by Priority courier and then the distributor would send back the order
by rail.. The problem was that most of the time, the courier arrived after
11:00am the next day, leaving the stock on the track costing the company
$6400 per day per rail car to sit there for the next day..
The company never considered this cost when they decided on a courier
company, they picked priority because they were the cheapest.. A
salesperson for Purolator (who charges over twice what priority does for
shipping) came to speak to the purchaser for the company and finally told
the company of what kind of savings there would be by getting the order in
on time.. Needless to say, in the first year that the company was using this
new, "extremely expensive" courrier company, they saved over 2 million
dollars simply because they didn't have to pay for that boxcar every time
they placed an order.
Of course, wintel machines are cheap.. At first.. but then again, they
retire twice as fast as Macs (look at any University, or other major
organization that uses both PCs and Macs and see the age of each still in
service) and require these overpriced engineer wannabes to run them.
enterprise
and have to reboot maybe once or twice in one month.
Matt Gaia wrote:
>
> >I see that I really hit the nail on the head with my previous post ;-)
>
> Actually, no, you didn't. *grin* You said *ahem*:
>
> and Linux users, and seem to have
> nothing better to do with their time than spew vitreol against MS and
> Windows users, rationalising their blind hatred with whatever act of
> intellectual dishonesty or popular rumour that serves their purpose.
>
> which of course, in most cases, is not true, since, as I stated before,
> that Linux Advocates have found that Linux is a much better alternative to
> Windows. If you would like some objective proof, ask the average Windows
> user how many BSOD's they have come across in one day. Then ask a Linux
> user how often they have to reboot in that same period. Chances are, your
> numbers are going to be a lot higher for the first question, than for the
> second.
>
> So you're probably going to say "How about a real world example," right?
> Well, my dual boot box (98SE and Mandrake 7.0), Mandrake froze once,
> because of setting up a new network card wrong, since the middle of
> January, and I've been having to restart Windows roughly once a day for
> things like memory leaks. On my linux box, well, it's been up and running
> smooth for 4+ months now.
>
> So I guess how my compters run is intellectual dishonesty, huh? And
> personally, I have nothing against Windows users, just Windows. Oh, and
> by the way, thank you for letting me disprove you once again. :)
>
> Matt
Matt Gaia
>Ok, I have Windows 98, and I get things such as the Blue screen of death
>and have to reboot maybe once or twice in one month.
>
But how hard do you run the machine in Windows? An average session on my
computer is having Visual Basic open, working on programs, a PPP
connection, at least one browser (netscape or IE), some HTML editor open
(usually Dreamweaver), Photoshop 5.5, and usually some kind of game, like
Unreal Tournament. I'll have at least 3 of these open at a time (except
for gaming, usually), and it will go on for about 6+ hours a day. So, I
guess you could say that I bring it upon myself for beating the hell outta
my computer, but then again, MS should have developed an OS that can
actually handle it. Just another $.02 to add to my collection. :)
Matt
Pex
PC user or actually Windows user, I tried my brother's Mac and whoah it was
great. I didn't have any problems that I have had with my Windows 98. I'm
collecting money for Power Book 500 Mhz which I think after a lot of testing
is the best computer in the world (remember it's a laptop). I have also seen
people working with Linux and I think it's great if you know what you're
doing. But for me and all of those who want to do their jobs quikly and
without major problems buy Mac. I'm going to kill my PC after I get Mac.
And if we talk about Gates and Jobs they are both assholes period.
Subpop
5/2/00 4:55 AM:
> And if we talk about Gates and Jobs they are both assholes period.
(Budweiser mode on) True.. True..
Steve jobs certainly strikes me as the same type of character as Bill Gates
- the only difference being that he doesn't have the power that Gates does
right now.
I think about when Gates asked Jobs to open up the Apple platform years and
years ago so that it could become the standard instead of Windows today and
how computers would be like.. I think if we rewrote history with Apple as
the dominant player, we'd not be better off - we'd simply be saying that MS
Windows is the best thing in the world.. Not counting anything about the
technology today, just saying that the only reason the MacOS, Linux, and Be
are as good as they are is that they cannot rest on their laurels and bask
in the power that they have - they need to compete. MS could get away with
never releasing another version of Windows and concentrate on other software
and still remain as powerful as they are today simply because people take it
for granted that they somehow need Windows to survive.
Remember, it was the spontaneously combusting PowerBook line that pushed
Apple to build one of the industry's most comprehensive quality control
facilities.. If Apple had the power MS did, they wouldn't need to do any
quality control - they could just promise a better product in the next
quarter.
Tao
don't go out that often, and prefer to see commandline-prompts with silly
commands that have 300 command line switches. Sure, you have a load of
windows-managers, sure they can ressemble a windows- or maclike interface.
The problem is that most people DON'T want to type in commands which are a
mile long! In fact, i bet that 80% of the people don't want to be bothered
with all that techie stuff at all!
Personallly, as you've guessed I'm a Windoze user, but, the only thing i can
hope is that there will be a system that is simple enough to use for anybody
so that most people NEVER have to bother about silly abbreviations like
PPTP, SMTP, IRQ-settings (these things stem from the seventies!), COM1,
LPT3, SCSI3 etc.... Computers should not be techie stuff, but simple to use
consumer products. So perhaps when the interface of the MAC, the amount of
software for Windows and the stability of LINUX are united into one....THEN
we are gettin' somewhere.
Right now I wouldn't even think of using LINUX, since i can't use the
programs i want. All i could do is use SOME graphics programs, SOME
wordprocessor, but not the ones i want. What could i do with it? Fiddle
around with system settings for ages, emulate Windows? I'm not saying LINUX
has no future, but it still has a long way to go. Same goes for stuff like
BEOS.
Matt Gaia <mg...@cis.ysu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.100041...@frodo.cis.ysu.edu...
> >and Linux users, and seem to have
> >nothing better to do with their time than spew vitreol against MS and
> >Windows users, rationalising their blind hatred with whatever act of
> >intellectual dishonesty or popular rumour that serves their purpose.
>
Matt Gaia
>Why is is that the Linux users i know are mostly real computer-addicts, that
>don't go out that often, and prefer to see commandline-prompts with silly
>commands that have 300 command line switches. Sure, you have a load of
>windows-managers, sure they can ressemble a windows- or maclike interface.
>The problem is that most people DON'T want to type in commands which are a
>mile long! In fact, i bet that 80% of the people don't want to be bothered
>with all that techie stuff at all!
You really never have worked with a *nix system, have you? If there is a
really long command, chances are, a) it won't be used, or b) you would
make an alias for it.
>
>Personallly, as you've guessed I'm a Windoze user, but, the only thing i can
>hope is that there will be a system that is simple enough to use for anybody
>so that most people NEVER have to bother about silly abbreviations like
>PPTP, SMTP, IRQ-settings (these things stem from the seventies!), COM1,
>LPT3, SCSI3 etc.... Computers should not be techie stuff, but simple to use
>consumer products. So perhaps when the interface of the MAC, the amount of
>software for Windows and the stability of LINUX are united into one....THEN
>we are gettin' somewhere.
Ok, let's hypothetically say then, that one of your cards in your box
(maybe a sound card) confilcts with another one? What would you rather
do, pay someone to fix it, or save your money and do it yourself? And
Linux has literally hundreds to thousands of apps written for them. It's
just they're not as highly commercialized as Windows apps. Finally, how
can you have a stable system if you don't know the inner workings of it.
That's the reason that Linux is around, and why it's so stable.
>
>Right now I wouldn't even think of using LINUX, since i can't use the
>programs i want. All i could do is use SOME graphics programs
Gimp.
>SOME wordprocessor,
Star Office, just to name one of many, which also happens to be completely
compatible with Office.
>but not the ones i want. What could i do with it? Fiddle
>around with system settings for ages, emulate Windows? I'm not saying LINUX
>has no future, but it still has a long way to go. Same goes for stuff like
>BEOS.
Oh, and it also takes about 5 minutes to set up a Win emulator, but I
don't need to bother with Windows. :)
MadMAn
<Pine.GSO.4.10.100050...@frodo.cis.ysu.edu>, Matt
Gaia <mg...@cis.ysu.edu> wrote:
> >SOME wordprocessor,
>
> Star Office, just to name one of many, which also happens to be completely
> compatible with Office.
Corel Word Perfect 2000 also has a Linux version out that is 100%
compatible with Office.
Tao
> On Tue, 9 May 2000, Tao wrote:
>
> >Why is is that the Linux users i know are mostly real computer-addicts,
that
> >don't go out that often, and prefer to see commandline-prompts with silly
> >commands that have 300 command line switches. Sure, you have a load of
> >windows-managers, sure they can ressemble a windows- or maclike
interface.
> >The problem is that most people DON'T want to type in commands which are
a
> >mile long! In fact, i bet that 80% of the people don't want to be
bothered
> >with all that techie stuff at all!
>
> You really never have worked with a *nix system, have you? If there is a
> really long command, chances are, a) it won't be used, or b) you would
> make an alias for it.
People Don't want to be hassled with typing commands...come on...welcome to
the 21st century. Not all people want 100% control over their system. And
i'm not talking about system-administrators but about standard
computer-users (90% of the users)
>
> >
> >Personallly, as you've guessed I'm a Windoze user, but, the only thing i
can
> >hope is that there will be a system that is simple enough to use for
anybody
> >so that most people NEVER have to bother about silly abbreviations like
> >PPTP, SMTP, IRQ-settings (these things stem from the seventies!), COM1,
> >LPT3, SCSI3 etc.... Computers should not be techie stuff, but simple to
use
> >consumer products. So perhaps when the interface of the MAC, the amount
of
> >software for Windows and the stability of LINUX are united into
one....THEN
> >we are gettin' somewhere.
>
> Ok, let's hypothetically say then, that one of your cards in your box
> (maybe a sound card) confilcts with another one? What would you rather
> do, pay someone to fix it, or save your money and do it yourself? And
> Linux has literally hundreds to thousands of apps written for them. It's
> just they're not as highly commercialized as Windows apps. Finally, how
> can you have a stable system if you don't know the inner workings of it.
> That's the reason that Linux is around, and why it's so stable.
>
Ask a standard PC-user if he or she knows anything about DOS and commands
like xcopy, deltree, or even format with all the switches. They often
don't...why......because there is often no need to. People don't need to
know about IRQ-settings and stuff like that...why? Because that is Soooo
boring (i can know, since i had a lot of hassle about assigning the proper
IRQ's to the proper peripherals. People want a simple port with a printer
symbol next to it and they want to plug in....that's it
> >
> >Right now I wouldn't even think of using LINUX, since i can't use the
> >programs i want. All i could do is use SOME graphics programs
>
> Gimp.
Everyone is blabbling about GIMP (is it already final?) and how much better
it is than Photoshop, which i doubt. I problem is...i want to have the
choice NOT to use GIMP...like I have the choice for Windows NOT to choose
photoshop but Photopaint, illustrator, Freehand, Flash, Fireworks, Painter,
3D Studio MAX, Softimage, Maya, etc.. etc...etc....
>
> >SOME wordprocessor,
>
> Star Office, just to name one of many, which also happens to be completely
> compatible with Office.
Same here....i want to have the option to choose Star Office or Microsoft
Office, or WP Office, or whatever i like.
>
> >but not the ones i want. What could i do with it? Fiddle
> >around with system settings for ages, emulate Windows? I'm not saying
LINUX
> >has no future, but it still has a long way to go. Same goes for stuff
like
> >BEOS.
>
> Oh, and it also takes about 5 minutes to set up a Win emulator, but I
> don't need to bother with Windows. :)
>
Well that's personal preference...but i am just saying that LINUX is not yet
a system for the masses but is mostly used by Computer Whiz Kids who refuse
to conform to Microsoft standards (which has something going for it) and who
love to have total control over their machine!
It's like using a VCR or a TV, you should minimize the time customizing the
settings and maximize the time using it. The funny thing is....the people i
know who use LINUX are the same ones that prefer to have their computer
screwed open. Now who wants to see the looks of a harddrive...like that is
something sexy to look at....
J.C.
>People Don't want to be hassled with typing commands...come on...welcome to
>the 21st century.
Which is internet-centric, the internet being unix-centric in turn...
Not all people want 100% control over their system. And
>i'm not talking about system-administrators but about standard
>computer-users (90% of the users)
Well, that's wonderful. Don't use unix then.
>> >consumer products. So perhaps when the interface of the MAC, the amount
/me is resisting another ethernet card flame...
>Ask a standard PC-user if he or she knows anything about DOS and commands
>like xcopy, deltree, or even format with all the switches. They often
>don't...why......because there is often no need to. People don't need to
>know about IRQ-settings and stuff like that...why? Because that is Soooo
>boring (i can know, since i had a lot of hassle about assigning the proper
>IRQ's to the proper peripherals. People want a simple port with a printer
>symbol next to it and they want to plug in....that's it
That's wonderful too, but when it fucks up...
>Same here....i want to have the option to choose Star Office or Microsoft
>Office, or WP Office, or whatever i like.
I can appreciate your point, but you either value choice (windows) or
stability and the general freedom-from-bullshit that Linux offers. Now, it's
up to you to weigh up your priorities. Choice (to me, anyway) wouldn't (shouldn't?)
bother the average Linux user, who can choose from StarOffice, Applixware, AbiWord,
KOffice, Corel etc etc...
What I'm saying is that if you're only going to use one office app, does choice
really matter more than the advantages of Linux I mentioned above?
>> >but not the ones i want. What could i do with it? Fiddle
>> >around with system settings for ages, emulate Windows?
Use WINE, or freemware, or vmware...
Computer Whiz Kids who refuse
>to conform to Microsoft standards (which has something going for it) and who
1. So these 'kids' have a problem because they prefer open standards to MS-pseudo-
standards? Erm, you emphasise _your_ freedom to choose in your spiel above about
choice in office suites...
2. Microsoft standards? Microsoft HTML? Microsoft's implementation of TCP/IP?
Let the computing community (as opposed to the windows community) make the standards.
Broadly speaking, if it doesn't have an RFC, fuck it. MS is only interested in the
bucks to be made by screwing over people like yourself.
--
J.C.
"The free flow of information along data highways being piped into our
homes and offices will permit unimaginable control by a small elite..."
-- 'The Thunder of Justice', pg. 264
Michael Mosbey
Tao wrote:
>
> Right now I wouldn't even think of using LINUX, since i can't use the
> programs i want. All i could do is use SOME graphics programs, SOME
> wordprocessor, but not the ones i want. What could i do with it? Fiddle
> around with system settings for ages, emulate Windows? I'm not saying LINUX
> has no future, but it still has a long way to go. Same goes for stuff like
> BEOS.
I'm going to suggest Linux Mandrake. I had several lukewarm experiences with
other, earlier distros, like Debian 1.2 and Slackware 2.x. I needed to do
something, instead I was fighting in a then unfamiliar OS to get X configured.
Mandrake is a nice, stable distro. Go with version 7.0 or later. It runs
fairly fast, and when you're finished with the friendly, fully graphical
installation, everything works. You can almost get by completely without using
a command prompt. It already has X and KDE (along with several other window
managers) configured and running, and your ppp should be configured in under
five minutes. Netscape Communicator 4.7 export is installed and running. Just
add Star Office and/or Wordperfect and you have a good, working system. Heck,
even my winprinter (I needed 11x17 support cheap, but what was I thinking?!) is
supported. Give it a try, I think you'll consider staying.
-mike
Shice Beoney
Mandrake's pretty good, with one small and unfortunate problem: RPM. It
has to be one of the most aggravating packaging systems out there,
especially when it comes to dependancies. Try upgrading something (using
rpm -Uvh) fairly low level, like GTK, and watch the failed dependancy
warnings spew forth. Even worse, the --force option doesn't seem to work
with Mandrake (and I'm pretty sure it worked in RedHat when used it).
My suggestion would be go with one of the Debian-based distros, I've found
Storm Linux to be fairly decent.
--
"user-obsequious adj. Emphatic form of user-friendly. Connotes a system so
verbose, inflexible, and determinedly simple-minded that it is nearly
unusable. 'Design a system any fool can use and only a fool will want to
use it.' See WIMP environment, Macintrash." -The Jargon File
"You don't seem to be able to say much of anything,
I suggest hooked on phonics,
you're fucking looser," -palsecamntsc <palsec...@hotmail.com