Hyattsville tiller accident
wol...@epix.net
Pennsylvania. Three firefighters were injured and the truck looks like
a total loss. I was one of the first responders on scene yesterday, and
just thought I'd get the message out for any support anyone would like
to give. Their web site is:
I have pics up on my web site at:
http://home.epix.net/~wolfman/tiller.htm
MC Guy
<wol...@epix.net> wrote in message news:398ECB05...@epix.net...
fire.fighter
MC Guy <ktr...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:398eedc5$1...@news2.one.net...
>FF STRATHCLYDE FIRE BRIGADE,SCOTLAND
>My best wishes and speedy recovery to the firefighters who were injured
>yesterday on I-81 accident.
>
Ken M.
>
> Hyattsville MD tiller was involved in an accident yesterday on I-81 in
> Pennsylvania. Three firefighters were injured and the truck looks like
> a total loss. I was one of the first responders on scene yesterday, and
> just thought I'd get the message out for any support anyone would like
> to give. Their web site is:
>
> http://www.hvfd.com/
>
> I have pics up on my web site at:
>
> http://home.epix.net/~wolfman/tiller.htm
I saw the video of this accident on local news. Pretty bad, and
the three firefighters had to be cut out of the wreck. Let's
hope for a speedy recovery. The ladder truck was demolished.
--
(ken)
Seven photos of my new Sweetie Chihuahua girl born 4-16-00:
http://www.zyworld.com/maryland/test.htm
To respond to this place (-) between x and d.
Because e-mail can be altered electronically,
the integrity of this communication cannot be guaranteed.
Shane K. Pule, NREMT-P
Rivera Beach, who sold it to the Baltimore City.
Plus my volunteer fire company has an old Mack straight truck for sale,
maybe they can buy this one as a Temp replacement!
<wol...@epix.net> wrote in message news:398ECB05...@epix.net...
Sean Sims
Just my 2 cents..
-Sean
Shane K. Pule, NREMT-P <para...@home.com> wrote in message
news:kUEj5.30501$eS6.6...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
MC Guy
Sean Sims <jrfiref...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:soua855...@corp.supernews.com...
nrfd
John Nelson
> I saw the video of this accident on local news. Pretty bad, and
> the three firefighters had to be cut out of the wreck. Let's
> hope for a speedy recovery. The ladder truck was demolished.
>
Indeed. Awful looking wreck.
Now, would it be to soon to observe that volunteer fire companies have an absolutely abysmal
safety record when it comes to vehicle accidents, and to ask what can be done about this?
I genuinely do NOT want this to degenerate into a "professionals -vs- hobbyists" debate.
Rather, I would like to see some constructive dialogue with the aim of sorting out this
problem. Yes, it IS a problem. You need look no further than last year's firefighter fatality
statistics to see this.
http://www.usfa.fema.gov/pdf/usfapubs/ff_fat99.pdf
"Bear"
and sister. My prayers are with them, and the entire Hyattsville VFD
family. May the Grace of Our Lord comfort the families of our brothers and
sister. God grant you all Peace in your time of pain and dispair.
Barry McClung, EMT-P
North Blanco County EMS
Johnson City, Texas
"Combat Medics: Calm, Comfort, and Healing in Time of Crisis"
"Bear"
Barry McClung, FF/EMT-P
Dan Shannon
the vol's from Hyattsville, they ALL neglected to do one of the primary
safety issues in vehicle accidents. Disconnect the vehicle battery
!!!!!!!!!!!
Notice the headlights on during all of the photos !!!!!!!!
Dan S.
nrfd
drivers side of the vehicle.
The tiller rolled on the drivers side
John C Lewis Jr
--
John L.
THE PHILLY CONNECTION
"Shane K. Pule, NREMT-P" <para...@home.com> wrote in message
news:kUEj5.30501$eS6.6...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
> Maybe they might want to buy that old piece of shit Seagrave they sold to
> Rivera Beach, who sold it to the Baltimore City.
>
> Plus my volunteer fire company has an old Mack straight truck for sale,
> maybe they can buy this one as a Temp replacement!
>
>
SYNCTIC
involved and my best wishes for a speedy recovery. Just a reminder about how
dangerous our calling is.
Regards
Harry Miller
Paid on Call Firefighter/ NR-EMT-B/ Haz-Mat Technician
Nitro, WV FD
Steve
who belong to that department. I also follow their web page on a regular
basis. You will find that they are a very very tight knit Department and
they
are not just another "Volley" department. They handle everything in a very
professional manor.
Karl Brennan
causes of the crash? Driver error? Weather? Granted the lights were on and
granted the batteries were inaccessible would the Diesel fuel really be high
on a priority list for rescue personnel, Fire potential yes, but risks?
Interesting accident, obviously the Driver would be screened for ETOH and
other chemicals or does the operator not fall under the Federal DL?
Karl Brennan MICP NS FF
Hamburg Fire Dept.
"nrfd" <nr...@epix.net> wrote in message news:398F9B0A...@epix.net...
Eric Gironda
John Nelson <jo...@flatline.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.13f8dcc8d...@news3.speakeasy.net...
> Now, would it be to soon to observe that volunteer fire companies have an
absolutely abysmal
> safety record when it comes to vehicle accidents, and to ask what can be
done about this?
> Rather, I would like to see some constructive dialogue with the aim of
sorting out this
> problem.
Step 1) Have a CDL license covering emergency vehicles, that doesn't cost
$200 to get. Since it would only cover e-vehicles, it couldn't benefit
anyone financially (ie changing jobs). price it only enough to cover the
paperwork.
Step 2) only those with the licence drive the vehicles big enough to require
it.
Rumor has it that PA has in the works a $25-50 license only for firetrucks,
equivalent to apparently a class B/airbrakes license, but has not been seen
by anyone I know. I attempted to get a class B / Air brakes license last
summer: $85 for the permit, $350 for the drivers school, and then you took
the driver's test at the school. I checked with the local driver's center
about skipping the class, just taking the test like I did for the passenger
car license, but was told that the driver's center would not allow me to use
an engine in the weight class with water in the tank, and that the closest
center that would allow me to bring my own truck with a lilcensed driver was
about 45 minutes away from the station.
Final outcome: I'm $85 poorer, but have an expired permit for class B/ air
brakes! don't I feel special.
John C Lewis Jr
it jacknived.
--
John L.
THE PHILLY CONNECTION
"Karl Brennan" <medi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:CG%j5.32180$Z6.8...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
jgc...@telusplanet.net
wonder why the tiller position was occupied?
Is it not possible to "lock" the rear wheels for prolonged travel on a major
hiway or interstate?
Living in the middle of the oil patch I occasionally see massive loads on long
trailers and the rear "jeep" is controlled from the tractor for turns in the
city and pinned for highway travel.
Sorry hear about the incident and wishing all involved a speedy and complete
recovery.
--
John Cobo
Firefighters Museum Society ~ Calgary
Canada's second largest collection of fire artifacts
http://www.firefightersmuseum.org
"If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost;
you can still call him vile names." Elbert Hubbard
As for the "volly"," pro" debate, how many F/T departments started out as VFD?
ditchdoc
the viewpoint of the speed trap the truck was headed into. The paper claimed that
the driver hit the brakes hard to slow down going into the speed trap and the
truck jacknifed. They also claim in the news that the tillerman was "ejected,"
leading one to believe that a seatbelt was not worn...
But our prayers are with all three FF.
jrf...@atlascomm.net
wrote:
>
>John Nelson <jo...@flatline.com> wrote in message
>news:MPG.13f8dcc8d...@news3.speakeasy.net...
>> Now, would it be to soon to observe that volunteer fire companies have an
>absolutely abysmal
>> safety record when it comes to vehicle accidents, and to ask what can be
>done about this?
>
>> Rather, I would like to see some constructive dialogue with the aim of
>sorting out this
>> problem.
>
>
>Step 1) Have a CDL license covering emergency vehicles, that doesn't cost
>$200 to get. Since it would only cover e-vehicles, it couldn't benefit
>anyone financially (ie changing jobs). price it only enough to cover the
>paperwork.
>
>Step 2) only those with the licence drive the vehicles big enough to require
>it.
I don't know of any CDL requirement or testing on the operation of
tiller vehicles. They present unique circumstances and are relative
only to fire departments.
jrf...@atlascomm.net
<medi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>So we know its a Pierce Tiller and it was raining, What was the initial
>causes of the crash? Driver error? Weather? Granted the lights were on and
>granted the batteries were inaccessible would the Diesel fuel really be high
>on a priority list for rescue personnel, Fire potential yes, but risks?
>Interesting accident, obviously the Driver would be screened for ETOH and
>other chemicals or does the operator not fall under the Federal DL?
>Karl Brennan MICP NS FF
>Hamburg Fire Dept.
Each state has the ability to regulate the requirements for CDLs and
emergency vehicles. Some states make fire fighters exempt, some do
not. As a builder, our apparatus is always considered a commercial
vehicle until it is owned by a department, then it falls under
whatever the rules are for the state it is in at the moment.
At one company I worked for we had a dealer from New York who always
claimed fire apparatus was exempt, and indeed it was, in New York. I
would not let him drive our apparatus without a CDL. Once, when I was
not around, he took off in a demo 100' platform and headed for New
York. He learned an $1,800.00 lesson that fire apparatus is not
exempt in Illinois, at least not when it was a demo unit. He even had
the nerve to call us and ask us to pay the fine.
The Federal law that covers CDLs actually does exempt fire fighters
but only when responding to a fire call. Returning from one still
requires the CDL. Even driving around the block or test driving.
But, a state can exempt them if it so desires.
Vince Finazzo
hobbyists" debate. >>
"hobbyists"....And you don't want this to degenerate into a debate...not a
good choice of verbiage...
I'll give you the benefit of doubt and not go into this further, nor will I
dispute your mis-quotes from your posting.
Instead I'll just consider the source......
">
> Indeed. Awful looking wreck.
>
> Now, would it be to soon to observe that volunteer fire companies have an
absolutely abysmal
> safety record when it comes to vehicle accidents, and to ask what can be
done about this?
> I genuinely do NOT want this to degenerate into a "professionals -vs-
hobbyists" debate.
> Rather, I would like to see some constructive dialogue with the aim of
sorting out this
John Nelson
> << I genuinely do NOT want this to degenerate into a "professionals -vs-
> hobbyists" debate. >>
>
>
> "hobbyists"....And you don't want this to degenerate into a debate...not a
> good choice of verbiage...
Kind of defensive, aren't we?
> I'll give you the benefit of doubt and not go into this further, nor will I
Just can't keep egos out of it, can you.
> dispute your mis-quotes from your posting.
And those would be?
John Nelson
Eric Gironda <egir...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3m2k5.87651$A%3.12...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
> Step 1) Have a CDL license covering emergency vehicles, that doesn't cost
> $200 to get. Since it would only cover e-vehicles, it couldn't benefit
> anyone financially (ie changing jobs). price it only enough to cover the
> paperwork.
Excellent suggestion. Cost should NOT be a barrier in seeking the training
and certification required to safely perform the job. This is especially
true for volunteer agencies. I guess I should consider myself fortunate to
work in a state that provides alternatives to CDL for fire apparatus
operators.
Tony
Clayton Tischler <Clayton....@magnumengineering.com> wrote in message
news:398EF6F0...@magnumengineering.com...
> What happen in the accident?
Tony
>
> Now, would it be to soon to observe that volunteer fire companies have an
absolutely abysmal
> safety record when it comes to vehicle accidents, and to ask what can be
done about this?
hobbyists" debate.
sorting out this
> problem. Yes, it IS a problem. You need look no further than last year's
firefighter fatality
> statistics to see this.
>
> http://www.usfa.fema.gov/pdf/usfapubs/ff_fat99.pdf
These stats wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that the volunteer
firefighters greatly outnumber those of you who make a career out of it?
Based on the sheer numbers, then yes, the volunteers would have a greater
accident rate.
Tony
You can only guess where the firefighter was standing while making the final
cut....
One foot on the door, the other on the cab. Luckily no one else was
injured.
Tony
> I don't know of any CDL requirement or testing on the operation of
> tiller vehicles. They present unique circumstances and are relative
> only to fire departments.
As far as I know a tiller vehicle would probably be considered a
"combination vehicle" and would fall under the Class A CDL requirements.
Tony
John Nelson <jo...@ccfd6.org> wrote in message
news:3995b608$1...@news.pacifier.com...
licensed for the vehicles in which they drive. Now, how would you suggest
paying for it?
I can consider myself fortunate. My employer paid for me to obtain my Class
B license as part of my new job responsibilities. This will enable me to
"legally" driver our engine and tower anytime. However, the class I
attended cost $1,700. Add in another $100 - $300 for the permits, license
and physical (required) and you're looking at spending upwards of $1,800 to
$2,000 per person in the company. We have over 30 people on our Driver's
List for both pieces of apparatus. Where would you recommend coming up with
the $60,000 to get our members "legally" licensed?
Jon Holt
A while back, Texas held that fire personnel only had to have a normal (Class C)
license in Texas and they were considered exempt when operating emergency
vehicles.
Then, in 1991(I believe), they adopted a new law that required fire fighters to
take the class specific tests for the kind of vehicle they operated. All the
engineers in my department were required to maintain a Class B driver's
license.... that covers pretty much anything below a Semi..... they did not
require the CDL addition since we were not actually using the license in a
commercial sense. They have kept the Class B license on the books just for that
exact reason-- to enable people who drive larger vehicles but do not do it for
profit....ie RV's... to drive on in Texas above a certain size, you must have a
Class B license.... we had to take our engine down and take a typical driving
test... (and yes... even do the parallel parking.... for what reason I do not
know... but we had to do it)
Just a little info about how they handle things down this way....
Oh.. and the fee... it is $20... and our department covered it.....
Jon Holt
Eric Gironda wrote:
> > > Eric Gironda <egir...@home.com> wrote in message
> > > > Step 1) Have a CDL license covering emergency vehicles, that doesn't
> > cost
> > > > $200 to get. Since it would only cover e-vehicles, it couldn't benefit
> > > > anyone financially (ie changing jobs). price it only enough to cover
> > the
> > > > paperwork.
>
> > It is an excellent suggestion to have driver of emergency vehicles
> properly
> > licensed for the vehicles in which they drive. Now, how would you suggest
> > paying for it?
> >
> >Where would you recommend coming up with
> > the $60,000 to get our members "legally" licensed?
> >
>
> SEE ABOVE: The DOT has the power to regulate the price of a permit,
> correct?
> The classes are something that can be regulated by the training
> department. when I got my original driver's license for a passenger car (at
> age 16) I went out with a legal driver of that same vehicle class. He was
> respectfully called "DAD". I learned to drive Class B CDL trucks, with air
> brakes, passenger, and school bus endorsements from him and a few of the
> guys at the firehall who drove trucks for a living. Every department
> already has licensed drivers for the firetrucks, or at least knows someone
> who has the proper license. With the CDL books available from the DOT,
> anyone who should be allowed to drive these trucks, should be able to learn,
> for relatively few dollars. As I just said, my actual driver's "training"
> cost me nothing except the time to watch, pay attention, ask questions, and
> practice. The problem seems to be that the DOT's force drivers to bring the
> vehicles for testing purposes themselves, and in my area, they won't use
> firetrucks, unless they are empty. There are many trucking companies in the
> area who will gladly accept your big money to teach you to drive, they just
> won't cut any breaks when you don't want to learn their way, just take the
> test.
>
> Basically, I feel that we as a group of firefighters, should find a way to
> have CDL licenses for us done the same way that the permit for motorcycles
> work. In PA, I don't have any knowledge of any other states, you pay $2
> more for a bike permit than a passenger car, and the money goes to a fund
> that provides FREE classes through the MSF, at regional centers. These
> centers provide the instruction on how to safely operate the class of
> vehicle, give practical hands on experience, and provide the bikes to do so
> with. This apparently eliminates the problem of poor maintenance/repairs on
> the vehicles being used.
>
> anyone with ideas on how to make this type of thing work?
> EJG
Eric Gironda
John Nelson
> >
> > http://www.usfa.fema.gov/pdf/usfapubs/ff_fat99.pdf
>
> These stats wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that the volunteer
> firefighters greatly outnumber those of you who make a career out of it?
>
> Based on the sheer numbers, then yes, the volunteers would have a greater
> accident rate.
You are confusing absolute numbers and accident rates. They are, as you seem to be
stumbling toward grasping, two different things.
The important numbers to factor in are the number of accidents (or injuries/deaths) and
the number of CALLS each group responds to. THAT is what makes the volunteer's accident
rate so alarming.
John Nelson
In article <Ngml5.11924$Yl1.4...@nntp3.onemain.com>, tan...@yahoo.com says...
> >
> > Excellent suggestion. Cost should NOT be a barrier in seeking the training
> > and certification required to safely perform the job. This is especially
> > true for volunteer agencies. I guess I should consider myself fortunate to
> > work in a state that provides alternatives to CDL for fire apparatus
> > operators.
> >
> It is an excellent suggestion to have driver of emergency vehicles properly
> licensed for the vehicles in which they drive. Now, how would you suggest
> paying for it?
What part of "Cost should NOT be a barrier..." did you NOT understand?
Tony
With the way things are currently done in Pennsylvania, it would be too much
for departments to bear the financial costs associated with getting all
drivers their proper CDL license.
Note I said the way things are currently done. So, let's - as a HUGE lobby
group - try and make the changes needed.
I'm all for getting drivers - at the least - properly trained on driving a
heavy piece of equipment.
How many EVOC classed have you been to in which the instructor teaches you
about the air brake system?
John Nelson <jo...@flatline.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.14007bc18...@news3.speakeasy.net...
Co...@beer.com
> we had to take our engine down and take a typical driving
> test... (and yes... even do the parallel parking.... for what reason I do
> not know... but we had to do it)
That takes *how* many spaces?
Or did they make you wedge it between the posts spaced for a compact car?
--
Conal -- http://conal.homepage.com or http://i.am/a.bard
In the end, we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible,
because there will be no words in which to express it.
-George Orwell
Hunter Schappaugh
Co...@beer.com wrote:
One story running around our FD is that a rookie was taking his drivers test
and doing the whole parallel parking thing and since the person administering
the test didn't allow for a back-up-man ( against out department's policies )
the rookie ran into a lamp pole! I would have to explain that at the review
board!!
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Hunter Schappaugh - Firefighter, EMT, Piper
Houston Fire Department
Houston, TX
IAFF Local 341
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Eric Gironda
Tony <tan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1oQl5.14464$Yl1.5...@nntp3.onemain.com...
> I agree 100% John, cost SHOULD NOT be a barrier, but it must be a
concern.
> With the way things are currently done in Pennsylvania, it would be too
much
> for departments to bear the financial costs associated with getting all
> drivers their proper CDL license.
> Note I said the way things are currently done. So, let's - as a HUGE
lobby
> group - try and make the changes needed.
> I'm all for getting drivers - at the least - properly trained on driving a
> heavy piece of equipment.
> How many EVOC classed have you been to in which the instructor teaches you
> about the air brake system?
>
Tony, thanks for saying in so few words what I wrote a novel about.
Eric
Jon Holt
The DPS office we had to go to had a special parking area set up for the CDL tests
and the RV license so we used that area to park.... it was clear of obstacles
against a curb area.
One creative driver got smart with the examiner(a Texas DPS trooper) and told
him..."I'm sorry... my departmental policy is that I cannot back without a
spotter......" So the trooper got one of the other's waiting to take the test to
spot for him.... then laughed and made a comment about wondering how long it would
be before that came up......
Kinda spoils the whole thing....... and I think the trooper had more fun just riding
in the fire truck than he did grading us....
Jon Holt
charles krin
>I agree 100% John, cost SHOULD NOT be a barrier, but it must be a concern.
>With the way things are currently done in Pennsylvania, it would be too much
>for departments to bear the financial costs associated with getting all
>drivers their proper CDL license.
One of the things that you can do is to check with the doc who is your
medical control if you need a formal CDL physical. When I was in the
clinic, we would provide reduced cost CDL physicals for the School
Board and Public Service Agencies.
ck
--
Charles S. Krin, DO FAAFP,Member,PGBFH,KC5EVN
Email address dump file for spam: reply to ckrin at Iamerica dot net
F*S=k (Freedom times Security equals a constant: the more
security you have, the less freedom! Niven's Fourth Law)