IAFF Stickers
JMK1985
wars!
Now on to a pet peeve of mine!
I have an IAFF sticker in both of my vehicles. A sticker that I pay monthly
dues for. I am a UNION firefighter! I work in a combination department that
also has non-union, non-dues paying part time firefighters that have the same
sticker in their car windows as I do.
I realize that these part time firefirefighters play an important role in our
department. I am not sure where they got the stickers, but I have asked each
and every one of them to remove them to no avail.
So here is my question, to all non-IAFF members, Please remove these stickers
from your vehicles as you are incorrectly advertising that you are a member of
the IAFF.
It may sound petty to some people, but I believe that it IS WRONG.
Kenneth Gancorz
quite petty. What if ONLY union members supported the unions causes? The
union wouldn't advance very far. Do you think the Teamsters would have
gotten so far if they didn't have any public support? Try to think of it as
free advertising for support of the union. What if I liked Harley Davidsons,
dreamed of owning one, but don't have one? Would it be offensive to have a
Harley sticker on my car? There are much better things to be concerned about
than a sticker, like, state and federal funding for firefighters to perform
their jobs in the most effective and safest way possible.
And no I'm not a union member or on a paid department or have an IAFF
sticker on my car.
Just my $0.02 here.
Ken
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"JMK1985" <jmk...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001124075922...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
L peters
wanting our union T shirts. They thought that it was cool to wear a FFs T shirt.
The part timers should either join or get rid of the union stickers. They are not
PAID members of the organization.
I wonder sometimes about wearing Work shirts of other departments. I have seen
numerous FFs wearing ATF shirts , FDNY & other big city shirts.
danny burstein
>Why not make a decal that has something like "IAFF SUPPORTER" with the
>local number on it so that people who contribute funds or services to
>the Local can proudly display the sticker without controversy? The
>police do the same thing.
ring... ring... ring....
Hello, this is George Gore. I'm with the International Affiliation of Fire
Fighters[1]. The IAFF. You've probably seen our logo proudly displayed by
your local fire department.
We're collecting money to help your brave firefighters and their families,
and, as all too often called upon, their widows and orphans, to help
support their activities.
For your generous contribution of $500, we'll send you an IAFF certificate
you can place in your store window. We've even included a custom frame
that will let you place it alongside your required local fire and
occupancy permits, letting any fire inspector immediately see that you
take fire prevention seriously.
[1] Apologies if there is such a real group. A web search didn't show
them.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
danny burstein
>If, however, the Local went out and gave out door or telephone
>stickers, what's wrong with that? Volleys do that all of the time.
The problem becomes (and some of us are going to have to agree to disagree
on this...) that as soon as "legit" (the real groups) start utilizing
fundraising schemes like this, the wannabee sleazoids take advantage of
the mindset that the public has, namely that giving money out to the
local 'widow and orphans fund' is good, and then go after the same people.
The related problem, of course, is that even when the legitimate groups
solicit funds, there's always a bit of overhead fear and intimidation
involved. I personally don't believe that _any_ law enforcement (or code
enforcement, or any similar) group should be soliciting any money through
any means other than general taxes. While I certainly ercognize that
there's a long and honored history for volunteer fire and ambulance
agencies to do this [a], I am troubled quite a bit due to the very
slippery slope leading off from them.
[a] I'd much rather that these groups, as well, get funded out of general
tax revenue. But then I'd also rather see an end for all the other 'off
budget' charges and 'user fees' and other non-tax taxes. But that would
require truthful accounting by gov'ts of their tax burden...
Brian
"L peters" <lpet...@kscable.com> wrote in message
news:3A1EB76A...@kscable.com...
...I wonder sometimes about wearing Work shirts of other departments. I have
seen
numerous FFs wearing ATF shirts , FDNY & other big city shirts.
Well crap. If we use that logic, we can tell all of the professional sports
teams to quit selling merchandise. I have a Chicago Bears hat (I know they
suck this year), but I don't work for the Bears organization. Should I get
rid of it?
I am however with you regarding the IAFF sticker. I am not a member and
would never dream of buying stickers, patches, etc...
Brian
jmasters
combination paid/vol dept that is part of the IAFF we all get along and all
of our volunteers proudly sport the IAFF sticker as well as shirts of the
local.
I dont see a problem
1. It supports the Iaff
2. It gets Public relations
3. Like previously mentioned what if only union members were allowed to have
stickers shirts etc dang that would seriously cut down on the Realations of
the union
Just my .10 cents
John
Federal Cerifeid FF
National Registered EMT
Hazmat Tech
"Brian" <bri1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8vmcsl$s...@dispatch.concentric.net...
ja...@frontiernet.net
how would you like it if your employer told you to take a day off
WITHOUT pay because I was willing to work there for free that day. The
IAFF only represents paid firefighters. The IAFF only collects dues
from paid firefighters, therefore, it is expected that a person
displaying a union sticker is a member of or a supporter of that union
(paid firefighters). While you may feel that you support the union, by
being a volly in that combo dept. you work against the goal of the
union: jobs for its members. Again, would you like to lose wages or
your job because someone is willing to do it for free? There are
national level Volly organizations, why wouldn't the vol. guys want to
show thier pride in being a vol. and display that sticker?
Sorry, I guess it does sounds like a paid/ volly thing in my response.
I can only imagine the bashing I'm about to receive.
IAFF 1071
Rochester, NY
J. Kobersteen
would you like it if your employer told you to take a day off WITHOUT pay
because I was willing to work there for free that day. >>
Well stated. Unfortunately, you are right, I'm sure your comments will cause
another paid/volunteer upheval on here.
As for the matter at hand, I can appreciate wanting to show support for the
causes that the IAFF represents, but there are plenty of other ways to do that.
Lobby your representatives for Nationwide Collective Bargaining and The
F.I.R.E. Bill, boycott non-union shops and never cross a picket line.
Like a volunteer firefighter once told me when I saw the IAFF sticker on the
back of his pickup and asked him where he worked, "Naw, I still just volunteer,
but that sticker sure helps me get out of tickets when I get stopped."
I, for one, would not dream of representing myself as something I am not, and I
expect others to have the same courtesy.
Cheers,
J. Kobersteen
Firefighter/Paramedic
Houston (TX) Fire Department
Webmaster - www.local341.org
Joe Nicholson
> I have seen numerous FFs wearing ATF shirts, FDNY & other big
> city shirts.
I wonder what the FDNY, Chicago and LAFD stores expect the shirts
they sell will be used for???? Grease rags? Dish cloths?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Steve & Susan
>There are
>national level Volly organizations, why wouldn't the vol. guys want to
>show thier pride in being a vol. and display that sticker?
Why not make a decal that has something like "IAFF SUPPORTER" with the
local number on it so that people who contribute funds or services to
the Local can proudly display the sticker without controversy? The
police do the same thing.
Likewise, if the IAFF is the bargaining unit for the combination
department and you have part-time people, you should be allowed to
make the part time people pay an agency shop fee for bargaining
services - even if they are not members, per se.
Steve
L peters
have a blue Maltese Cross with their initials on it. They post it on
vehicles to show their well deserved pride in being a volunteer.
IAFF stickers are for IAFF members. Union T shirts are union members.
MAF180R
replication of the OFFICIAL union seal to belong to a Professionakl
Firefighter. Now when these Hoopels that slap the sticker on the window to make
believe that they are not what they are and drive like total idiots that is a
direct insult to our union. If they don't want to take it out, threaten them
with being charged with THEFT of UNION PROPERTY, and if that don't work, Throw
a rock through the window, or scrape it off when no one is looking like I have
done.
in brotherhood
Steve & Susan
>>Why not make a decal that has something like "IAFF SUPPORTER"
And then Danny answered:
>ring... ring... ring....
>
>Hello, this is George Gore. I'm with the International Affiliation of Fire
>Fighters[1]. The IAFF. You've probably seen our logo proudly displayed by
>your local fire department.
Yeah, yeah, BTDT.
Just last month, someone called me at work (my lines are taped on a
logging recorder at my preference) representing a ubiquitous police
organization. I played along while he gave me the pitch. I prodded him
for a while. Got someone else to trace the call to a telemarketing
organization that employs prison inmates. My law and order solicitor
was most likely a felon in a penetentiary telemarketing boiler room.
The dumb bastard didn't even pick up that I answered the phone with
agency name, "9-1-1 Bureau" and my title and name, he just launched
into his schpeal.
Just for kicks, the tape went to the local president of same
ubiquitous police organization for their internal whatevers.
Point is, people should never fall for telemarketing schemes (I, for
one, would not be upset if telemarketing was outlawed). If this
organization did get any money, it had to be some ridiculously low and
inconsequential percentage of the income.
If, however, the Local went out and gave out door or telephone
stickers, what's wrong with that? Volleys do that all of the time.
With the donations, they can donate to burn centers, retired
firefighter homes or help those who are injured and fell through he
cracks (ring a bell? Oh, wait a minute, that only applies to the
bandaiders who get hurt... 'cause they get stugots. But they're not
FFs. Never mind).
Steve
Steve & Susan
delete, because we've been through this before. The summary is that
funding, like all other things public is subject to parochialism. This
is a different world and it's hard to believe it's on the same planet.
Vastly different than NYC.
A fraternal organization will never be funded by public monies.
Fundraising will always have to be a part of the existence of special
programs. As long as we have local governments denying job related
injuries or challenging line of duty deaths fraternal organizations
will have to have special programs. They absolutely need this because
risk managers are not going to be swell guys and open the coffers for
someone or their family. (And, unions that are not protecting their
membership in this manner should be decertified)
What's sad is that many volley organizations are too busy pissing on
each other to band together in similar fashion for their common good.
Steve
Rick Vomacka
not IAFF members are demonstrating SUPPORT for you .... just like people
wear New York Yankees and Dallas Cowboys shirts.
Maybe you should get off your high horse and thank them.
Maybe.
--
Rick Vomacka
Brimfield, OH
Joe Nicholson
> UNION PROPERTY, and if that don't work, Throw a rock through the
> window, or scrape it off when no one is looking like I have done.
Just what we need in the U.S.A. -- more union-organized
gang violence and vandalism by goose-steppers.
> in brotherhood
You are an asshole and embarrassment to the entire profession
and all of its organizations.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Joe Nicholson
> Maybe you should get off your high horse and thank them.
> Maybe.
Most of them have single-digit IQs, are brain-washed, and
can't see beyond their narrow peripheral vision to realize
that the grass can be green on both sides of the fence.
Ain't no "maybe" to that fact.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
J. Kobersteen
standing with the IAFF. >>
<< How would a member of the VFW feel if
someone who never served in the military was going around with a VFW sticker
on his/her vehicle? >>
Very good points. Very very good points.
-Kobersteen
William Dudas
Second of all: Your depiction of your own actions is a bigger insult to the union.
Third and lastly: You want to involve the law when you yourself are lawless.
I hate pinheads like you Paid or Vollie.
JOHN LINGLEY
What gives with the 'I' in IAFF. What the heck is INTERNATIONAL about this
organisation, if it does not cater for different groups of Ff.'s inside the
US how on earth can it justify the International tag.
Sorry to disappoint you'all but the USA ain't the centre of the universe or
this world is just one of the many diverse, equally important, nations on
this planet,
Brian Humphrey
People getting worked up over these stickers or posting messages about them?
Eric Gironda
sports
> teams to quit selling merchandise. I have a Chicago Bears hat (I know
they
> suck this year), but I don't work for the Bears organization. Should I
get
> rid of it?
> I am however with you regarding the IAFF sticker. I am not a member and
> would never dream of buying stickers, patches, etc...
>
You would pay money to have a NFL logo hat, which sends $ to a highly paid,
professional athletic organization, but would not pay money to support a not
as highly paid (not even close!) professional firefighting organization? I
have the opposite inclination. While not a IAFF member, I do support the
cause they stand behind.
I also believe that the main reason the officers of that organization do
not strongly prosecute those who are not members but have the patches, pins,
decals, t-shirts, etc. might possibly be that every one of those items
brings in some $ for the benefit of the members? Do you not have to be a
member to access those in the first place? So either a member has purchased
the item for personal use, and later given it away (intentionally or not),
or they have purchased it for someone else.
In the case of people who use the logo to "get out of tickets", then that is
an area where the FF & PD are working REAL closely.
RONKLIMO
then why do some union Fire depts sell their t-shirts on line ?
RONKLIMO
>be passed around or collected.
Very good point ! so why dont they come up with two stickers
1} Member IAFF
2) I support the IAFF ( and charge a few bucks for it)
> And I have foundtwo things plainly clear the first is that in the vollies
>you have someof the most egotistical and arrogant people, who worry more
>about theirturf than the good of the people.
Take a look around your own union before you speak about turf battles and
attitudes .
I have seen union FF leave a scene because they wouldnt work with the vollies
which were called out to help them out . Now thats being done for the good of
the people ??
> The other thing is that there areboth good and bad members of both groups.
thats exactly right , so dont go bashing if this isnt the fight that you
intended to start .
You should remember one thing , I believe the vollies out number the union FF
10 times over and most of us vollies will back the paid union or non union FF
any time . as a matter of fact we train with the paid guys all the time .
Good luck in your sticker fight and stay safe .
Ron
Jamie Joyce
> > city shirts.
>
That may be different. I'm sure the shirts that they sell are not actual duty
shirts that the members wear while working. I've seen these at the commissary
many times with a big sign saying "Only members of this dept. may purchase this
apparel."
Jamie Joyce
Clay Twp. Fire Dept. #61
MAF180R
sticker for getting out of tickets or parking where he wants. I never said that
all union members are saintly when it comes to driving on our roads. Instead of
slamming what someone writes, let's hear some thoughts on this. This is a very
hot topic as you see. The only sticker I had "taken back" was from a person who
was a volly in our combo dept who had said that the Dept no longer needed paid
members and actively campaigned to have the paid guys go. He succeeded for the
most part with only 3 guys needing to be taken care of.( most of us got other
dept's to hire them) This person also sported a union sticker in his 2
vehicles. Do you really think he was supporting us or just trying to be someone
he wasn't? If I had offended anyone, this was not meant to be.
in brotherhood
Steve & Susan
>The only sticker I had "taken back" was from a person who
>was a volly in our combo dept who had said that the Dept no longer needed paid
>members and actively campaigned to have the paid guys go.
Is this the one that later got "made" as a cop and is one of their
Action Jackson posterboys - or the otherone who got in there to
destroy the paid department so he could be chief?
>He succeeded for the
>most part with only 3 guys needing to be taken care of.( most of us got other
>dept's to hire them) This person also sported a union sticker in his 2
>vehicles. Do you really think he was supporting us or just trying to be someone
>he wasn't?
Or trying to put the noses of people with families into the political
mess happening at the time?
>If I had offended anyone, this was not meant to be.
For the people who don't realize, the department Mike and I were from
was a combination department of about 18 paid guys and 18 volleys
(about 7 or 8 active and the rest kinda showed up here or there).
There were four men on a shift, two were assigned the BLS/D ambulance.
For decades, the paid and volley members coexisted and got along.
Every single paid man started as a volley.
In the late 70's because of *many* safety issues there was a movement
to remove the department's chief who was a friend of a strong mayor
(who has been the mayor to this day). The mayor reluctantly removed
the career chief and deputy chief but vowed to decimate the paid
department whom he blamed as the "sh*tstirrers" who wanted his boys
removed.
In 1984 when I made Lieutenant, I was brought "upstairs" with other
officers of the volunteer component where we were given a proposition
by the mayor. Take over the fire department and he'd give us anything
we wanted (new apparatus, a bar in the firehouse, etc.). We stood with
the career guys and he vowed he'd get mutual aid departments to cover
our town or hire Pinkertons. As residents of the municipality, we
wanted that 24 hour 90 second response time. YES, anywhere in town,
there was a 90 second response time (at the most) from the time you
hung up the phone to pulling up at the scene (the town was 1 square
mile and the firehouse was in the middle, more or less). That allowed
other paid FFs to bring additional apparatus and volunteers to respond
to the scene and assist in the initial attack. It was a combination
with proven success. Why did we want to change that to a 10 minute or
more response time?
This changed in the early 90's when someone who wanted to retire with
certain concessions became the new chief of the department. While
there were no overt changes made, the career department slowly eroded.
The next person in that position was given the mandate to allow
volunteers to take certain apparatus and establish "volunteer trucks"
and "paid trucks" rather than one vehicle with a combination crew.
This just divided things further. That's the point where I moved to
Missouri.
Shortly thereafter, many paid people retired and those who couldn't
were taken off the line. The EMT firefighters (a two-class system
where these guys were paid substantially less than "appointed" paid
firemen for more responsibilities) had to find other jobs. One became
a mechanic, others were fortunate to get on other career departments
where they could make the prevailing wage for career firefighter, yet
others are "on the ambulance" as day workers for their new volley
ambulance squad.
The volleys did, indeed take over. All of the town employees
(including the cops) were forced to join the volley fire department to
bolster the membership numbers. Many of the people who worked there
had to scurry to find other jobs. There were one or two articles in
the paper, but otherwise it was all swept under the rug.
It's grossly inappropriate for anyone to attack someone's job. By this
clown putting a union sticker on his car, he thumbed his nose at the
men who were in danger of losing their jobs. He wasn't supporting them
by any means. For those of us who supported the union through this
mess, it hurt to see the guys we stood side-by-side on the line with
being put in the position of having to look for work. I've been there
many times, myself, and it's never been fun or cool to HAVE TO look
for another way to feed your family because your job is going away.
This clown deserved whatever he got.
Steve
15 year veteran volley (1981 - 1996)
FMBA supporter (to this day)
Dave
represents hundreds of locals on this side of the boarder , so I feel it
deserves " International " status .
Dave
SFD...@webtv.net
job in the private sector. I think if your not a member of IAFF then
you have no business having a sticker on your car. Its not petty! They
aren't dues paying members. I hate to say it but they might be
"wanabes" despite their important role as part-time employees.
C. Harrington
Firefighter
Spencerport, NY
Ken Gancorz
thought would happen, there was someone bound to put it into a vollie/paid
argument. WELL IT'S NOT!
What are we talking about? A piece of polypropelene plastic with printing
and adhesive on it.
When I first started out in the fire service, I wanted to become a city, or
in the case here, a paid firefighter.
But now I'm a little older and wiser. (9 years in).
JUST LISTEN TO YOURSELVES!
My image of a PAID firefighter was very good at one time till I started to
come across stuff like this. And this isn't the first time I've seen it
on-line. This was the FINAL straw!
Your arguing about a piece of F*CK'n plastic when all that matters it the
welfare of the town or city you serve!
And just in case any paid or union firefighters FORGOT: The very first fire
department formed was by Ben Franklin! And guess what? It was a VOLUNTEER
DEPARTMENT!
So with that, you tell me, which came first?
The volunteer or the paid?"
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Steve & Susan
>As residents of the municipality, we
>wanted that 24 hour 90 second response time...
>Why did we want to change that to a 10 minute or
>more response time?
As I wrote that, I was unaware that there has been a tragic event in
my former department. Please see LODD posting below.
Steve
JMK1985
>and adhesive on it.
To you it's a piece of plactic, to me it's a symbol of my carreer, unity and my
livelyhood! I started this thread, and it's gotten blown way out of
proportion. All I wanted was that only dues paying UNION members display a
symbol of OUR union. I was not talking about vollie/paid, city T-shirts or
anything else. So once again if you are NOT a member, you should NOT display
the sticker!
>And just in case any paid or union firefighters FORGOT: The very first fire
>department formed was by Ben Franklin! And guess what? It was a VOLUNTEER
>DEPARTMENT!
>
>So with that, you tell me, which came first?
>
>The volunteer or the paid?"
Once again this has nothing to do with Ben Franklin or Volunteer Departments!
Just because Ben started Volunteer departments, does not give you or any other
non-union person the right to display a symbol of my union. The union does a
lot of great work for both career and volunteer firefighters. (ie legislation
that affects every firefighter)
So if it is " just a piece ofpolypropelene plastic with printing and adhesive
on it", why don't all of you non members just scrape it off! I'll send you the
razor blade if you need one.
Jim Klinker
IAFF 3547
Union Member and Proud of It!!!
ja...@frontiernet.net
a days pay? Simple as that. There are many rural areas that don't need
paid guys, there are also many areas with vollies that should be paid
(densely populated suberbs around most cities, at least here in the
northeast) but do to the political power of the vollies they remain
("your taxes will go up, they will spend most of the day eating and
watching tv"), so ask yourself......would I settle for a volly police
dept., waiting for some guy with a blue light on his dash to get up from
a dead sleep to come help me out when I'm being robbed? I doubt it. I
doubt that there is one square mile in the USA that isn't officially
covered by a paid police officer. Oh, I think that Bosaton hired paid
guys in the 1600's or so, not too far behind the first vollies. Makes
you think.
Steve & Susan
>...there are also many areas with vollies that should be paid
Yes there are.
Like you, I come from the northeast, from a community that had two
extremes. On one end of town there were apartments loaded with 20 or
30 Guatemalan nationals who slept shifts on a single mattress and
lined up for construction work three shifts a day. On the other end,
living in "luxury condominiums" there were more doctors and lawyers
and Mercedes SUVs than anywhere else in the region. Neither of these
groups join a volley department. In fact, both of these groups will
subvert taxes to fund any type of infrastructure at all. The
immigrants have one or two social security numbers for the 30 or so in
the apartment and generally get paid "under the table" and the rich
people will find any means possible to retain as much of their money
as they possibly can.
In between all of this, there is a dwindling middle class that has to
commute to work in an area away from where they live, raise a family,
even take second jobs. They've lived there for generations and are
finding it harder to survive on the inflated cost of living. So you
get very young people (18 - 20 something) and people who work for the
community to run the FD in most of these places. These people are
usually not enough. These departments are often a revolving door for
personnel. By the time someone is trained and "chilled out" they're
getting married and moving away to where it's not so expensive to
live. These places really should have some form of permanent fire
protection, but the political forces at work usually aren't volleys.
They are usually fat-ass politicians who exploit their local people.
Some of them even had the balls to join the volley department as the
career department was being phased out just for the photo op. Never
saw them on the line or at the scene at 3:00 AM except for the camera.
>I doubt that there is one square mile in the USA that isn't officially
>covered by a paid police officer.
There's a big difference between statutory law enforcement coverage
and effective law enforcement coverage. We've got coverage from the
Sheriff's Department, but they have a handful of cars to cover 660
square miles and are usually coming from about 30 miles away.
Effectively, that's about the same. The "closest" 24/7 law enforcement
is 5 miles away and makes $10/ hr. running traffic enforcement (read:
the local speed trap). They aren't allowed to leave their area.
Politics again.
Volleys are not the enemy. Never have been. They are a response to the
local politics. Give most people a choice between no protection and
protecting their homes themselves (even if it spreads them thin
familywise), they'll choose the latter. The enemies are exploitative
politicians who will pocket the salary and wage money for their pet
projects (our raises and improvement of emergency services are going
toward the erection of a $300,000+ statue of San Carlos of Borromeo)
and cry that they cannot fund [insert whatever project you want here,
including a career department] because of external influences [in our
case, tax incremental financing in one of our municipalities that the
county executive says "robs" the county of funds that it will use for
alary and wage - but the same amount *is* available for a f*****g
statue - totally head-up-ass politics, and the people buy it, hook
line and stinker!].
Steve
Gordon Brooks
it should be reserved for the personal vehicles of union members, but
doesn't the union have control of distribution? I think that it is
important to allow some form of "I Support ..." because sometimes the
realization of public support is the only thing between us and a disaster
like the one Steve has mentioned. Of course, this is only the opinion of an
exempt employee.
>
> To you it's a piece of plactic, to me it's a symbol of my carreer, unity
and my
> livelyhood! I started this thread, and it's gotten blown way out of
> proportion. All I wanted was that only dues paying UNION members display a
> symbol of OUR union. I was not talking about vollie/paid, city T-shirts
or
> anything else. So once again if you are NOT a member, you should NOT
display
> the sticker!
>
>
> Once again this has nothing to do with Ben Franklin or Volunteer
Departments!
> Just because Ben started Volunteer departments, does not give you or any
other
> non-union person the right to display a symbol of my union. The union does
a
> lot of great work for both career and volunteer firefighters. (ie
legislation
> that affects every firefighter)
>
> So if it is " just a piece ofpolypropelene plastic with printing and
adhesive
Bruce
display the sticker and are not professional firefighters can rationalize it
all they want, but they're implying that they are someone that they're not.
If you're not a member, remove the sticker!!!!!
FFGadget
Patricia Langley
difference between a vollie and a union firefighter? None, as far as I can
tell. You both respond to a tone,you both save lives. You wear the gear. Did
you stop and think that perhaps those that display the sticker are proud to
be associated with those that do? I thought ALL firefighters were brothers
and sisters. no matter their race color or creed. Not everyone uses the
sticker or the firefighter plate as an excuse to get out of a ticket. Get a
grip, firefighters. This is not about a piece of plastic . What all of you
do,paid or vollie is fighting fires and saving lives,and property.
JMK1985" <jmk...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001127072757...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
> >What are we talking about? A piece of polypropelene plastic with printing
> >and adhesive on it.
>
>
and my
> livelyhood! I started this thread, and it's gotten blown way out of
> proportion. All I wanted was that only dues paying UNION members display a
> symbol of OUR union. I was not talking about vollie/paid, city T-shirts
or
> anything else. So once again if you are NOT a member, you should NOT
display
> the sticker!
>
fire
> >department formed was by Ben Franklin! And guess what? It was a VOLUNTEER
> >DEPARTMENT!
> >
> >So with that, you tell me, which came first?
> >
> >The volunteer or the paid?"
>
Departments!
> Just because Ben started Volunteer departments, does not give you or any
other
> non-union person the right to display a symbol of my union. The union does
a
> lot of great work for both career and volunteer firefighters. (ie
legislation
> that affects every firefighter)
>
adhesive
> on it", why don't all of you non members just scrape it off! I'll send
you the
> razor blade if you need one.
>
JMK1985
>stickers shirts etc dang that would seriously cut down on the Realations of
>the union
I don't think the Union is worried about the " Realations". What I am saying is
that if you do not belong to the union, you should not wear,display, or
purchase the Union logo. I don't think anyone would display an IBEW sticker
unless they were a dues payng member. So why display the logo of th IAFF unless
you are trying to give a false impression. There are plenty of other fire
department stickers out there( maltese cross, etc.) Put those on your car. Once
again tthis is not intended to slam any poc or volunteer departments.
Eric Gironda
and I didn't want to be left out.
SQUASHED UNDER THE BOTTOM LINE :
If I'm not a member, tell your members not to give or sell me the sticker,
and then I won't have to remove the sticker!
Bruce <bdi...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:fGxU5.1885$Mn5.2...@news.uswest.net...
JP & Kat Desilets
the IAFF, there's no right or reason for me to have a union sticker on my
pov, same for anyone else who is a firefighter but not union, i respect the
career & union brothersnews:20001124075922...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
> Ok, First of all , let me state that this is not intended to start any
kind of
> wars!
>
> Now on to a pet peeve of mine!
>
> I have an IAFF sticker in both of my vehicles. A sticker that I pay
monthly
> dues for. I am a UNION firefighter! I work in a combination department
that
> also has non-union, non-dues paying part time firefighters that have the
same
> sticker in their car windows as I do.
>
> I realize that these part time firefirefighters play an important role in
our
> department. I am not sure where they got the stickers, but I have asked
each
> and every one of them to remove them to no avail.
>
> So here is my question, to all non-IAFF members, Please remove these
stickers
> from your vehicles as you are incorrectly advertising that you are a
member of
> the IAFF.
>
> It may sound petty to some people, but I believe that it IS WRONG.
Mike
Eric Gironda wrote in message ...
>Sorry, folks, Gordon Brooks looked like he was having fun smacking the
nest,
>and I didn't want to be left out.
>
>
>SQUASHED UNDER THE BOTTOM LINE :
>
> If I'm not a member, tell your members not to give or sell me the sticker,
> and then I won't have to remove the sticker!
Steve Mulhollan
if you didn't go to Notre Dame, don't wear a ND sweatshirt? Etc.,
etc....
C'mon, get off your high horse.
JMK1985
>if you didn't go to Notre Dame, don't wear a ND sweatshirt? Etc.,
>etc....
>
>C'mon, get off your high horse.
>
Well let's see Apples and Oranges let's compare the two. C'mon get a clue.
Harley, Notre Dame and any other type of shirts are sold for A PROFIT. My union
shirt / sticker are not. If you or anyone else wants to buy a shirt that has
any logo on it go ahead. But do not display a union sticker to which you do not
belong. This has nothing to do with high horses, and your comparison is very
lame.
Eric Gironda
> Harley, Notre Dame and any other type of shirts are sold for A PROFIT. My
union
> shirt / sticker are not.
This apple sure tastes like an orange...
The union T that I have cost me slightly more than cost, that difference
would be "profit", according to the economics book which I bought while
taking business classes at college 10 years ago. I do not think that this
term's definition has changed over the intervening time frame. That profit
from the sale of said shirt went to fund the Local's activities. That same
shirt also came into the hands of non members who wanted to give financial
support to the union, and were happy to receive something tangible to thank
them for the PROFIT that the union made. YOUR LOCAL may not sell the
sticker/shirt to non members, but can not stop a member from purchasing them
for friends/family, and because of this fact, many LOCALS do not even try to
stop this practice. While I again do not support someone using the logo for
personal gain (ie. getting out of tickets), I see no reason to say "YOU
CAN'T HAVE THIS ITEM". If you can document that officers have walked away
from writing a ticket simply because of the sticker, I think you need to
have a chat with the police chief about his officers lack of duty, but I
think that finding substantial proof would be quite a challenge.
Joe Nicholson
> I don't think the Union is worried about the " Realations". What I
> am saying is that if you do not belong to the union, you should not
Well, Smulholl thought about that and replied:
> Just like if you don't own a Harley, don't wear a Harley t-shirt? Or
> if you didn't go to Notre Dame, don't wear a ND sweatshirt? Etc.,
> etc....
> C'mon, get off your high horse.
Maybe when people who don't play football stop wearing NFL jerseys,
and when people who aren't baseball players stop wearing MLB shirts,
maybe, just maybe, JMK1985 will have a valid argument.
... Remember The Worcester Six on December 3rd.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Blake Bowers
Hell, as an EX union member, anyone want to buy some old used
T shirts, with the IAFF logo on them?
This guy just said it is OK if I sell the shirts, and you wear
them.
Heck, it is about time I got something back for the dues I paid...
JMK1985
>> any logo on it go ahead.
>This guy just said it is OK if I sell the shirts, and you wear
>them.
>
Hey you're right I did say any logo, but what I was talking about is sports
logos, college logos etc. NOT IAFF LOGOS. And to get back to the subject, this
started out as a discussion on IAFF stickers on the vehicles of non-dues paying
people. NON_MEMBERS should not display union stickers. ANY UNION not just the
IAFF. How many non-union electricians have an IBEW sticker on their vehicle?
How many non-union plumbers have a plumbers sticker on their vehicles? This
could go on and on.......>
>Heck, it is about time I got something back for the dues I paid.
I 'm not quite sure what is meant by this remark, and considering the source,
I'll leave it alone
JMK1985
> and when people who aren't baseball players stop wearing MLB shirts,
> maybe, just maybe, JMK1985 will have a valid argument.
When people start wearing the MLB and NFL Union shirts and put the same union
stickers in their vehicles then YOU will have a valid argument
Jamie Joyce
> and then I won't have to remove the sticker!
I'm not a member of the IAFF, but I thought members were prohibited from
distributing stickers to non-members?
But then again, I'm always seeing the guys doing things that are "prohibited!"
LOL
Mike
WilliamHal
volunteer department are also career in other jurisdictions. I see how the IAFF
has fought for them and could never imagine being a career FF without union
protection.
Because of this, I have to agree that the only people who should be displaying
the IAFF sticker are IAFF members.
I can't agree with the t-shirts though.
Add your two cents and we'll start a trust.
Chief Bill Hall
Fire Department Mount Joy
Mount Joy, PA
www.fdmj.com
Richard Peterson
"paid" job, I would agree that we have no reason to display a Union
sticker on our vehicles, but I would ask one question? What would the
answer be to:
1)the no longer firefighter group(retired, quit, etc...)that continue to
display the decal, and
2)all the vehicles of spouses, girlfriends, etc. that I see with decals
on them? How does one know anymore, who is a Union member, and who
isn't?
PS, between you all and me, I would personally support 100% paid
departments, but I have to be realistic, It ani't never gonna happen in
today's Tax conscience society!
JMK1985 wrote:
>
> >Maybe when people who don't play football stop wearing NFL jerseys,
> > and when people who aren't baseball players stop wearing MLB shirts,
> > maybe, just maybe, JMK1985 will have a valid argument.
>
Tim or Kit Gilmore
felt compelled to answer your question. First, I am the President of our
Local 2479 firefighters in Oklahoma. Second, I to started as a vollie in
tradition. My father, his father ect. The issue that you would so like to
minimize to "a piece of F***** plastic" may be true. As for the question ,
NO ONE CAN DENY VOLLIES CAME FIRST! However, you clearly missed the point.
Let me put it this was. When this country was founded, EVERYTHING was
volunteer. Militia, Army, Navy, Firefighter ect. But, out of all those
volunteer organizations that KILL people while PROTECTING human kind, which
is the only one to still have VOLLIES. This is not bad, having vollies I
mean. But, when you respond to a call and die, who takes care of your
family? When you respond to a call who is more concerned with YOUR welfare
as a firefighter. When your kids learn of fire and medical emergencies, who
teaches them? The answer is not so simple as a piece of plastic, but the men
and women who have died to give us what is most important. Safety first,
YOURS then theirs. That is what a union does. That sticker not only
represents you as a member, but a member of many VOLUNTEERED hours to make
sure that others like you will not parish because someone forgot to furnish
you the tools necessary to live. Just my opinion and thanks for listening.
Tim Gilmore, President IAFF L-2479
Ponca City, Oklahoma
Firedog
for the sticker then your are missing the point of belonging to the IAFF. As
for me I feel that the IAFF is an association of fire fighters and anybody
that wants to display the IAFF logo on their car and permote the causes and
goals of the IAFF then by all means here's a sticker.
If they're willing to help get yes votes on the next bond referendum for a
new fire house somewhere or call their congressman to support PSODB (death
benefits) for fire fighters or maybe push for better state heart/lung
legislation or how about pushing congress to make tougher laws for children'
s clothing manufactures and/or any number of other cause on the IAFF's
agenda, then by all means here's a sticker.
The IAFF is more then just a sticker and we can use all the help we can get.
If some volunteer or citizen wants to display the IAFF logo on his car it's
not going to make me feel any less of a fire fighter because mine cost me a
few dollars. The IAFF and its members are bigger then that. Oh yea, by the
way here's a sticker.
This is just my 2 cents worth:
I) If Prometheus was worthy of the wrath of Heaven for kindling the first
fire on Earth, How ought all the Gods to honor the men who make it their
professional business to put them out. --- John G. Saxes
II) "Any man who steps in harm's way for the sake of his fellow man has come
to the silent realization that he may not return...
III) " Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key...
****************************************************************************
************************
Streetpk
around and off the point. I have been following this thread for a while and
the basic question comes down to "can you put an IAFF sticker on your car if
you are not a member"? The simple answer is NO. It is not a support your
local firefighter sticker but a sign of membership, plain and simple. As
Secretary of my Local, I do not give out stickers to non-members, period. That
is not the intended use. I think a IAFF supporter sticker would be a good idea,
just as there are retiree stickers.
This is not a paid/volunteer issue at all. By the way, Tim, thanks for the
contract...Tom