Kent State---New Evidence
Marcus
of others, comes possible evidence that the Ohio National Guard has
always denied.
See these links:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/01/national/main2746884.shtml
DittyDu...@webtv.net
what happened?
Michael A. Ball
>On the 37th anniversary of a day that changed my life, and thousands
>of others, comes possible evidence that the Ohio National Guard has
>always denied.
This event was sad then, and somehow, even sadder now.
Ohio Lyrics
» Neil Young
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
________________________
Whatever it takes.
Crusher
<DittyDu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:271-4638...@storefull-3112.bay.webtv.net...
> Why are not the persons who organized the uprising not responsible for
> what happened?
Responsible for what? They were UNARMED college kids expressing their First
Amendment rights to freedom of speech and assembly on their own campus. At
the time the riot control measure in effect was to shoot the leaders of any
"uprising." Shortly after this miserable event the military and police
learned from the crucifying the press and public gave them that other more
civil tactics were needed. Among others, those of us in the Army Reserves
were given several weeks of riot control training that did NOT involve
shooting anyone.
--Bob--
DittyDu...@webtv.net
time. The right to "peaceable" assembly was being abused. Some of the
college kids were high on MJ part of the time. No one could single out
any certain one, as it was mostly ignored. In previous years, if the
leaders could be singled out, the colleges would have expelled them. At
the time of Nam war, there was a large wave of boomers, more than
smaller colleges could control. the leadership was teaching even the
frosh to steal or whatever other acts of civil disobedience. Daddy
was sending them to college, to keep them out of war, and they were mis
spending his money for gas and whiskey but not a dime for books. Some
of the kids who had been to Nam and coming back were as crazy as the
rest. Some of the leaders were nutty professors. Others were the
older students who had bought in on it. The right is only to "peaceable
" assembly. If it was so peaceable, why were the Guards called
out??????
If they had been in the library studying, it would not have happened as
it did.
Nixon was SO SMART when he started the draft lottery. The calming down
was almost immediate. There were still a few protest marches etc., but
none with the same energy as before.
As a minor parallel, there was a strike at my high school before WW2
when the boys were being drafted as soon as they were eligible. Seems
like in that case, the local preachers came to bear on it, which got the
parents involved. The college kids at that time thought they were lucky
just to be going to college at all, so they behaved. -- maybe thinking
it necessary to be allowed to stay in college.
The next generation was the one that took it for granted that it was
their right to do anything they wanted and flout authority.
bk
Dink
wrote:
A tragic incident to be sure. I see nothing new in the article. The
demonstrators tried to deliberately provoke the NG troops. They succeeded too
well; and definitely exceeded their first amendment rights. The NG should not
have been using deadly force. They should have been armed with tear gas, high
pressure hoses, plastic shields, etc.
--
Dink
N 30.21, W 97.81 http://snipurl.com/whereiam
http://snipurl.com/austinweatherpixie
Geno1234
Vietnamn war. The Ohio State National Guarewd being poorly trained panic
when a officer shouted fire.
Now we have Bush heading in the same direction.
For surely after his veto large demostrations will begin. Vietnam all over
again.
<DittyDu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:271-4638...@storefull-3112.bay.webtv.net...
Geno1234
<DittyDu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:14363-46...@storefull-3117.bay.webtv.net...
Geno1234
parrott mouthing war mongring crap. But you will soom see more of that form
hatred as Bush's veto make's it sure that the only way to end Bush's
failure in Iraq and his arrogance is to hit the streets.
Fools never learn.
"Dink" <nos...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:i3nh33lr0fabcdd3h...@4ax.com...
Dink
> Fools never learn.
Yew aught to no.
**Dalin**
Bush's veto because there is no draft now. Except the back door
draft.
Dalin
On Wed, 2 May 2007 17:59:37 -0400, "Geno1234" <eugen...@fuse.net>
wrote:
Marcus
> Why are not the persons who organized the uprising not responsible for
> what happened?
There was no uprising... protesters across the country organized to
let Nixon know of their disgust with expanding the war in Vietnam to
Cambodia.
Of course, FBI informants burned down the ROTC building in Kent, and
then the Guard were told to watch out for rioters.
I think this newest information is a revelation.
For years the Ohio National Guard has denied what most people all
ready know, that the Guard, with their backs to the crowd, walking
away, suddenly turned and began firing. Someone gave a signal.
**Dalin**
No one knows who started that fire, but when the fire department
showed up the students and other protestors sliced the water hoses.
Ohio History url says differently about the guards having their back
to the crowd and walking away.
http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1595
Dalin
Geno1234
isn't too smart himself.
"Dink" <nos...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.05.02....@individual.net...
Geno1234
Guard fired into the demonstrating Students.
Kent State is just 50 miles from the Cincinnati Ohio area where I live.
Where were you at that time?
"**Dalin**" <lj...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4645196b...@130.133.1.4...
Geno1234
"**Dalin**" <lj...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:46461ec7...@130.133.1.4...
Marsha
"Geno1234" <eugen...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:c1a22$463927c4$d8442b37$26...@FUSE.NET...
Dink
--
Marcus
> It started as a demonstration but ended in rioting after the Ohio National
> Guard fired into the demonstrating Students.
> Kent State is just 50 miles from the Cincinnati Ohio area where I live.
> Where were you at that time?
>
>
It was a beautiful day...until I heard the news about Kent State.
Gordon H
>Well a person who has a picture on Bush hanging on his Living Room wall
>isn't too smart himself.
>
;-)
--
Gordon H
(Remove invalid to email)
Numac
--
Numac
**Dalin**
wrote:
>It started as a demonstration but ended in rioting after the Ohio National
>Guard fired into the demonstrating Students.
>Kent State is just 50 miles from the Cincinnati Ohio area where I live.
>Where were you at that time?
Watching it on the news Geno. 50 miles away hardly makes you an eye
witness. They were rioting first, why do you think the NG was called
in?
Dalin
**Dalin**
As I understand it 2000 guards were brought in. They all didn't turn
and walk away. They were throwing tear gas into the crowd. Why would
they just turn and walk away?
Dalin
On Wed, 2 May 2007 20:09:37 -0400, "Geno1234" <eugen...@fuse.net>
wrote:
>But the footish released by the Media at that time showed differently.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
that said STEAL THIS BOOK, or maybe that was the cover. Then another
later one had a band of some kind that said "no don't' I can't recall
which dissenter wrote it.
Any time there is a mass gathering of a crowd, particularly young men,
there can arise a problem of crowd control. IMO whoever organizes this
sort of massing of dissidents is responsible for any damage done, and
harm done that occurs as a result of the crowd getting out of hand. blah
Crusher
I had a boss at the time who was a Va Tech grad who had spent four years in
the Corps there and was a gung ho Army officer veteran of the Korean war,
and a neanderthal if there ever was one. When the riots/assemblies at Kent
State took place he staunchly advocated the shooting, insisting that ANY
riot ought to be quelled by shooting the leaders. He had a child attending
Va Tech at the time.
--Bob--
Seth Hammond
"Crusher" <nospam...@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:463a001d$0$1374$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
A good way to be shot in a riot is to be seen issuing riot directions to
rioters. Those carrying bullhorns will be the first to go, but snipers
taking out leaders is considered the last resort. There are a half dozen or
so procedures that take precedence.
-US Army riot control trainee
>
>
Dink
The NG at Kent State was ill-trained or untrained for the situation.
Two of the four people they killed were students just moving from one
class to another.
Seth Hammond
"Dink" <nos...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
I doubt that either of us know the whole story, but I wonder why the NG was
called in the first place? Was there valid reason?
Dink
The Mayor asked the Governor for help after riots broke out -- windows
broken in the downtown business district and fires set in the streets.
The abandoned, boarded-up ROTC building on the college campus which was to
be demolished was torched and when firefighters came they were pelted
with rocks and bottles, their hoses were seized and chopped into pieces.
Seth Hammond
Why?
Seth Hammond
"Seth Hammond" <lesliese...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:59ukmtF...@mid.individual.net...
Duh. I mean, why did the riots break out in the first place?
Did it start with draft protests then become a battle of wills?
Dink
Nixon invaded Cambodia.
**Dalin**
Yes, the students, and non-students too were rioting on the campus.
Dalin
>
>
>
**Dalin**
I assume the local police couldn't contain it.
Dalin
**Dalin**
wrote:
College deferments were also ended.
Dalin
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Re: Kent State---New Evidence
Group: alt.fifty-plus.friends Date: Thu, May 3, 2007, 11:11am From:
nos...@invalid.domain (Dink)
Dink Is it safe to say these two were not carrying signs that told the
guards they were just moving from one class to another? Was there
no route to the other class than through the crowd? blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Re: Kent State---New Evidence
Group: alt.fifty-plus.friends Date: Thu, May 3, 2007, 11:30am (CDT+1)
From: nospam...@roadrunner.com (Crusher)
This is true of most of the leadership in charge of controlling criminal
behavior in that day and time. Up until then, the public had fairly
well agreed and supported that kind of response to unruly crowds and/ or
fleeing criminals who would not stop when ordered to.
The harshness of this mindset also let us leave our windows open at
night wihtout fear that a prowler would crawl in. Blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
period. We went out there and drove around the campus one year (this
went on for more than one year) and the place looked like a war zone.
The brats broke things up faster than maintenance could repair them. It
was all over the country. It was not just a draft protest or anti war
sentiment, but those emotions drove kids into joining who might not
have been so unrulty otherwise. Certain college depts. went right on
with education as usual -- the music dept., the business dept. the
accounting dept. physics, etc. The hot places were the English,
dept, the Drama dept. Speech dept. , Sociology, education, pol. sci,,
the religion teachers you get the picture? Faculty devised a course
on how to stay out of the draft, and the service, etc. The faculty
leadership was involved as well as the adept student speakers, etc.
There was a subversive high school organization called Students for
Democratic Action. Drug use helped it along, too.
It is so much easier to be un- self- disciplined, and "do your own
thing". blake
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Re: Kent State---New Evidence
Group: alt.fifty-plus.friends Date: Thu, May 3, 2007, 1:26pm From:
nos...@invalid.domain (Dink)
{It was all over the country in colleges , where parents sent their kids
as a shelter, because students were not being drafted if they could stay
in school. (Not much incentive to pass and finish a degree, if you know
you will be drafted as soon as you get it So there was much rhetoric
being shouted around, it took in girls as well, But the crowds kept
growing unruly and destructive.}
Did it start with draft protests then become a battle of wills? Partly.
My opinion is the kids found out that they could not be controlled any
more, as there were too many of them.
Nixon invaded Cambodia. {one excuse blake]
Dink
Dink
Ricardo
I recall the incident eliminated campus protest for the most part. Is
my recalling correct? But also it's my opnion somebody in government
knew if you mixed what was going on with live rounds, the outcome
could be projected.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
---- It showed well dressed kids, including girls, with new shoes,
breaking into stores and carrying out items of stock. The TV man asked
"why are you doing this?" of a girl walking out with a small tv in her
arms. She looked sorta blank and said "I dunno. Everybody is"
There was no poverty showing. Do kids need a reason to act unruly?
blake
Seth Hammond
Thanks. I had obviously forgotten. Time flies when you're having fun.
Seth Hammond
I've been reminded that it was in reaction to Nixon attacking Cambodia.
Where are the riots for our attacking all the other countries since? Even
colleges students seem to take it for granted now.
DittyDu...@webtv.net
Re: Kent State---New Evidence
Group: alt.fifty-plus.friends Date: Thu, May 3, 2007, 12:32pm (CDT-2)
From: rll...@triad.rr.com (Ricardo)
I don't know about Kent State. Your memory is probly correct. It
slowed things down, where I was. I recall a local police shooting
incident whre the cop shot a fleeing felon, and one of the students
sounded amazed when I said to him, IF a cop tells you to stop and lie
on the ground, you might just as well expect to be shot if you keep
running. So the student says to me " OH he KNOWS that, NOW" Perhaps
it was wrong of me to assume that everyone knew that.
The thing that put a stop to all the rioting on campus was NIxon's
start of the draft lottery. THe kids calmed down almost immediately.
I don't know if it took out some of the student leaders or not. My
opinion is that once there was certainty about who was going and when,
the emotions calmed down, and they could plan. Even the ones whose
names were drawn to go first seemed calmer. Even the conscientious
objector who worked for me (the Pope was on his side) seemed more
stable.
I recall one kid who had been to Nam and was back, and still reeling
from knowing the Cong were shooting at HIM, tried to distance himself
from the unruly kids. They all did begin to behave better on our campus
blake.
Seth Hammond
"Ricardo" <rll...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1178220753....@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Aside from student unruliness, the biggest mistake was in calling in NG
troops untrained in Crowd Control. A platoon or two of trained MP's would
have gained control with a minimum of injury and likely no deaths at all. I
see no reason for the shootings that took place. Shit-poor leadership and
dumbass followers strikes again....
**Dalin**
<lesliese...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well part of those riots was because the college deferment was taken
away. Those kids were afraid they would be drafted. Now that we
don't have the draft I doubt the students care who we attack.
Dalin
>
>
Marcus
> On Thu, 03 May 2007 09:18:00 -0700, Seth Hammond wrote:
>
> > "Dink" <nos...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
> >news:pan.2007.05.03....@individual.net...
> >> On Thu, 03 May 2007 08:59:53 -0700, Seth Hammond wrote:
>
It was an old wooden building, just about ready for demolition, and
set on fire by agent provocateurs not associated with the student
body. The fire was used as a pretext to call out the guard. The
governor, running for re-election on a "law and order" platform, was
only to happy to comply with the request for troops.
Marcus
> "Seth Hammond" <lesliesethhamm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:59ukmtF...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Dink" <nos...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
> >news:pan.2007.05.03....@individual.net...
> >> On Thu, 03 May 2007 09:18:00 -0700, Seth Hammond wrote:
>
> >>> "Dink" <nos...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
> >>>news:pan.2007.05.03....@individual.net...
> >>>> On Thu, 03 May 2007 08:59:53 -0700, Seth Hammond wrote:
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Nixon had invaded Cambodia which touched off nationwide protests on
college campuses...many colleges closed down all together.
Nixon whetted the appetites of those with guns pointed at
demonstrators by calling them "bums rioting on the campus". It was
almost as if he gave the National Gurard commanders to shoot.
Marcus
> On Thu, 03 May 2007 13:26:35 -0500, Dink <nos...@invalid.domain>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Thu, 03 May 2007 10:54:46 -0700, Seth Hammond wrote:
>
> >>news:59ukmtF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> >>> "Dink" <nos...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
> >>>news:pan.2007.05.03....@individual.net...
> >>>> On Thu, 03 May 2007 09:18:00 -0700, Seth Hammond wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Dink" <nos...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:pan.2007.05.03....@individual.net...
> >>>>>> On Thu, 03 May 2007 08:59:53 -0700, Seth Hammond wrote:
>
Deferments ended an entire year before that.
If you want to see how that era affected young men, see the movie,
"The Year That Trembled".
Marcus
> Re: Kent State---New Evidence
>
> Group: alt.fifty-plus.friends Date: Thu, May 3, 2007, 11:11am From:
> "Crusher" <nospam.flo...@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
>
> news:463a001d$0$1374$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> A little story about the mentality of the day.
> I had a boss at the time who was a Va Tech grad who had spent four years
> in the Corps there and was a gung ho Army officer veteran of the Korean
> war, and a neanderthal if there ever was one. When the riots/assemblies
> at Kent State took place he staunchly advocated the shooting, insisting
> that ANY riot ought to be quelled by shooting the leaders. He had a
> child attending Va Tech at the time.
> --Bob--
> A good way to be shot in a riot is to be seen issuing riot directions to
> rioters. Those carrying bullhorns will be the first to go, but snipers
> taking out leaders is considered the last resort. There are a half dozen
> or so procedures that take precedence.
> -US Army riot control trainee
>
> The NG at Kent State was ill-trained or untrained for the situation. Two
> of the four people they killed were students just moving from one class
> to another.
>
> Dink Is it safe to say these two were not carrying signs that told the
> guards they were just moving from one class to another? Was there
> no route to the other class than through the crowd? blake
The students who were going to class were quite a distance away, but
apparently when National Guard shoot into an all ready dispersed crowd
they just shoot indiscriminately.
Marcus
You sound like someone left over from the Cold War.
Do you look under your bed each night to see if a Commie is hiding
there?
Marcus
The following is from an article on the 30th anniversary of the Kent
State Massacre, in 2000:
Jeff and
Allison were actively involved in the campus
demonstrations. Jeff and Sandy knew each other and
were friends. Sandy, who wanted to be a speech
therapist, was walking to her next class when she was
killed. Bill was an ROTC student. According to his
mother, Bill was becoming skeptical about America's
role in Vietnam. He had just completed a test in his
ROTC "War Tactics" class when he decided to attend the
afternoon rally.
Jeff, Allison, Bill, and Sandy were among a scattered
crowd in a parking lot 250-400 feet away from the
National Guard. Troop G was moving up a hill, their
backs to the students, when, without provocation and
as if on command, they turned around, pointed their
guns, and fired into the crowd for over ten seconds.
When the shooting stopped, four students were dead and
nine were wounded. Dean Kahler was paralyzed for life
when a bullet entered his spine. Years later, the
Scranton Commission concluded that the gunfire from
the Ohio National Guard was "unnecessary, unwarranted,
and inexcusable".
dae
"Marcus" <marc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178238695....@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Marcus,
Most, if not all the folks here are "left over from the Cold War". Aren't
you old enough to remember it? It ended in 1989. It lasted from 1945 to
1989, you can do the Math, and now they are not called Commie's but
"Socialists". Same animals, different stripes.
Don and his Devil
Marcus
> "Marcus" <marcus...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
And there are still knee-jerk reactionaries like you.
dae
Marcus,
Are you a Castro fan? He would be your closest Commie bed wetter.
I'm not knee jerk either. I am definitely a reactionary. Thank you very
much for your compliments.
Don and his Devil
Baba Mung
<DittyDu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:271-4638...@storefull-3112.bay.webtv.net...
> Why are not the persons who organized the uprising not responsible for
> what happened?
>
Uprising? I thought they were unarmed students exercising their right to
demonstrate their opposition to the invasion of Cambodia. As I recall it
there had been some disturbances in the town on previous days but nothing
that could justify the shooting that took place on the 1st May. Weren't some
of the people shot not even taking part in the demonstration?
Baba
Dink
<hLCdnYZxvaRGG6fb...@comcast.com> :
I'll bet Marcus has a whole drawer filled with Che Guevara T-shirts.
<G>
Marcus
> On Thu, 3 May 2007 20:05:36 -0500, dae wrote in message
>
Do you still read from "None Dare Call It Treason" before you go to
sleep at night?
dae
"Dink" <nos...@invalid.domain> wrote in message
Dink,
Ya think? Maybe a Graduate of the Ba Ba school of B_ _l S_ _t?
Don and , Oh you know:-)
DittyDu...@webtv.net
view.
Some folks were authorities in charge of keeping the peace. Others were
young and enrolled in school, and among the ones who were injured. Some
were doing what they considered their duty to their country by joining
the guard. Some were actively trying to avoid such duty. They were all
giving opinions of what was happening, during that era as far as they
recall. It's the old story about the blind men and the elephant. The
old story, they all knew they were allblind. The new story, each thinks
only the others were blind. I still say that the ones who were in
their rooms studying didn't get hit.
Lonestar
> In article <c1a22$463927c4$d8442b37$26...@FUSE.NET>, eugen...@fuse.net says...
>
>>It started as a demonstration but ended in rioting after the Ohio National
>>Guard fired into the demonstrating Students.
>>Kent State is just 50 miles from the Cincinnati Ohio area where I live.
>>Where were you at that time?
>>
>>"**Dalin**" <lj...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:4645196b...@130.133.1.4...
>>
>>>As I recall it was a riot. And there won't be any uprising after
>>>Bush's veto because there is no draft now. Except the back door
>>>draft.
>>>
>>>Dalin
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, 2 May 2007 17:59:37 -0400, "Geno1234" <eugen...@fuse.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>It was not a uprising. It was a demostration of college students against
>>>>the
>>>>Vietnamn war. The Ohio State National Guarewd being poorly trained panic
>>>>when a officer shouted fire.
>>>>Now we have Bush heading in the same direction.
>>>>For surely after his veto large demostrations will begin. Vietnam all over
>>>>again.
>>>>
>>>><DittyDu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:271-4638...@storefull-3112.bay.webtv.net...
>>>>
>>>>>Why are not the persons who organized the uprising not responsible for
>>>>>what happened?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
> Geno, as Kent state is near Cleveland I assume you meant 250 miles.
Hell, he never knows where he is/was on any given day.
Robert(Tx)
Dink
Hell no. I read from "The Invisible Government", by Dan Smoot.
Baba Mung
Makes sense.
Baba
Marcus
speaker, Tom Hayden, said at the May 4th commemorations this year:
**********************************************************************************
Political activist Tom Hayden told a crowded audience in the Kiva last
night that Americans must "expand the searchlight to history" to
recover the lost stories of social movements while working toward the
future.
"The least discussed and most important of our democratic rights is
the full disclosure of our history," he said.
Hayden's speech, "Kent State: Memories of the Future," capped off the
8th Annual Symposium on Democracy that sought to explore issues
related to democracy and peace.
Hayden, a founding member of the political organization Students for a
Democratic Society, said that even 50 years later Americans owe
societal improvements to the powerful social movements in the 1960s.
"We're in the formative stages of defining and embracing a new
narrative of American history thanks to the '60s," he said.
For example, Hayden compared the Vietnam War era to Americans' current
resistance to pull out of Iraq, despite large opposition to the war.
"This turbulence in the American consciousness is a sign of people
coming to terms with our past and where we are," he said.
As the nation nears the 50th anniversary of the '60s generation, he
said, Americans must recognize the impact of the social movements
because, otherwise, "the anti-war movements of the past and present
are always destined to be patriots without honor in our country."
"It's important we build our heritage from the bottom up and not the
top down," he said.
In addition, Hayden said, for people who do not believe the '60s
generation is continuing, it is because "success leads to the demise
of social movements."
"It's natural then that when social movements win, the activists enjoy
the improvements of everyday life," he said.
Even so, Hayden said, for a time period, the "radical '60s became an
orphan in history."
"When we were young, it was about freedom, but when we became parents,
it was about boundaries," he said.
Hayden said even though student activism seemed to peak again in the
early '90s with successes against sweatshops and again in 1999 with
the youth-driven shutdown of the World Trade Organization Ministerial
Conference in Seattle, "nobody said the student movement is back"
because they did not gain the notoriety of famous past demonstrations,
such as the May 4 shootings at Kent State in 1970.
When Sept. 11 occurred, Hayden said some people thought "these seeds
of renewal seemed washed away for good."
But, Hayden said evidence shows that social movements in the United
States have not died with the 1960s.
"Since 2002, there have been eight demonstrations larger than 100,000
people protesting the war in Iraq," he said, adding that Gallup Polls
show public opinion has turned against the Iraq War faster than
Vietnam.
Hayden also said because Americans voted against a war in progress for
the first time in history in the November 2006 election, a correlation
can be drawn between ballots and the effects of social movements.
Freshman sociology major Katherine Rybski, who admits there is a large
degree of political apathy among the younger generation, said there
have been many students at political protests she has attended in
Washington, D.C., recently.
"It's not just old, long-haired hippy freaks," she said. "There are
people my age. I think it (war) hits home even though there is not a
draft."
Sandy Brotje, a Kent resident, agreed social movements still exist in
the United States.
"I think it's got a long way to go, but it seems like it's gathering
momentum," she said. "It's about time."
Still, Hayden said there is a positive relationship between democracy
and peace, especially as Americans.
"Experiencing democracy in the United States is the surest path to
peace we have in our control," he said.
Hayden said archaeological digs deep down though our memories as
Americans should never end because it's a search for our identity.
"Only then, as Americans, will we come into our own," he said.
Baba Mung
Good to know that there are still young people who are sufficiently
politically aware and socially concerned for such gatherings to be taking
place. Thanks Marcus.
Baba
dae
"Baba Mung" <baba...@redyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_xC%h.112122$aB1....@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Mung,
Of course you do. You've been one all your life. These kids in College
today are both idealistic and, more so, naive. They think it is the
politically correct thing to do but are rather clueless as to what the
results might be.
At the beginning of the Iraq War the vast majority of Americans were for the
war or against Saddam, take your pick. Americans by nature, I think, are
very impatient and want everything done right now. War isn't like that, as
Viet Nam proved. We didn't learn then, and we might not learn in the
future, but we are also, by nature not quitters and are definitely not
losers.
That is our heritage, like it or not. We can destroy, but we are also
generous to help rebuild as we did in Germany and Japan at the end of WWII
and South Korea at the end of that horrific war.
Do you deny any of this?
Oh, and we don't love War as you and your ilk might believe.
It would be nice also if these people wouldn't take everyone like Hayden at
face value.
Don and his Devil
Marcus
Guardsmen were given verbal orders to shoot unarmed students on May 4,
1970:
DittyDu...@webtv.net
was what was done in uncontrollable situations, back in those days.
They were trying to overthrow the authority of the college, == they were
not working on getting an education. Who organized this rally, anyway?
Was it a teacher?
Geneo1234
are kocking the shit out of America, Your a real loser baby!
<DittyDu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
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