(March Challenge) Patience - 958/100/50
nativelaw
challenge. I didn't write the story I wanted -- this is sort of a cheat --
but having failed to finish anything in months, just finishing was fun!
--------------
Patience
958/100/50
In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I have
little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
"Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is distorted
through the mottled glass door of the surround.
"I don't see why not."
"I don't see why."
I don't say, because soon she'll be gone. I know my mom will live another
decade, at least. Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how a
good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
sounds nicer than nursing home and costs enough to make loved ones penitent,
though my mother foots the bill herself) and build her a neat addition to
our cape. Even though she has lots of money, and offered to pay for the
whole, Norman was against it. I would have had to stay with her, of course.
I didn't mind. The one time in life I was willing to sacrifice, willing to
give up my career for someone I loved, and it was too late. Norman insisted
that I needed to work; making money was part of who I was.
But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it, made
me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food service
industry publication. My specialty is the annual cheese convention. You
can laugh, but it brings in a fortune for the company.
If we did build an addition, of course it couldn't have a kitchen; no stove
upon which to leave a teapot bubbling until the water boils away and its
ceramic base blackens and cracks, forcing a chunk to split and crack and
fall onto the linoleum, burning a quarter-sized hole and causing volumes of
smoke with a distinctly acrid smell. Fortunately when this occurred-- last
Spring--Mom's aging chihauhau barked a neighbor alert before any rooms
beyond the kitchen were aflame. But I insisted -- that was the end of Mom
living alone. Norman and I have the Chihuahua, and bring it each week on
our visits to her so it can piss on the antiseptic linoleum in greeting.
Norman hates that dog.
I wring a washcloth, pondering how trickles become streams. If I'd been
sharper in my youth, I might have seen that if you aren't careful, the life
you plan might eventually break away. With little notice, it will pull from
your hand and catch in the froth and foam of years. Till one day you stand,
knee-deep in turbulence, and spy your other self climbing from the water
onto the banks of a distant shore, looking happy and carefree. You watch,
mouth agape, but can make no sound.
That's unproductive, isn't it. I've got to stop the daydreams, of late.
Nothing escaped me, in truth -- I divorced John, and my other self, four
years ago. I escaped, is what I thought. We have a new life, Norm and I.
No one wants to hear about the first marriage that didn't work. The Wife
who wanted a career and the Husband who wanted to dream, and paint. The one
where over time, their thoughts that her working and his staying home went
from "freeing' and "enlightened" to ruminations on blank canvas, a fuzzy
silence like static on an old TV. I don't know why I even think about these
things, still. I'm happy, now. It's for the best.
"I hope your mother isn't going to push about moving in, again." Norman
peers at me with his brows furrowed, his mustache atwitter.
"Why don't you tell her, once and for all, Norman? If we aren't going to do
it, she deserves to know."
"You tell her. She's your mother."
"Tell her what? That you're violently opposed to the concept?"
If I were to write that old story--the one about the career wife, and artist
husband -- well. There it is again. I wouldn't, of course. But if I
did -- if I had watched their lives and really seen them, instead of looking
over, around and under -- it might have been different. I might have
noticed more. Anyone else might have seen. Like when the husband hadn't
sold a painting in seven months and didn't want to come to bed, any more.
Or when the wife was asked to take over her department. How afraid she was
to tell her husband! Afraid to suggest they celebrate, fearing that the
image of her reach for the wallet to pay for dinner would hover over his
head and insinuate itself into the balloon of his thoughts like some kind of
bad comic. Silly little things, in retrospect. Things that weren't
important, that should have been discarded as unimportant.
What had happened to them? In the old days, none of it would have mattered;
they would have drank wine and made love and laughed at the stupidity of it
all. At least, they would have had each other.
"Well?" Norman says. He taps his foot.
Sometimes I think about what it would be like to be someone else. Living in
another country, maybe. Norman is not big on travel. He will go, if the
destination involves gambling. He's happy, spending hours in a casino,
soaking in the smoke and tension, entranced in the dance of losing. What he
wins is just enough, always, to keep him hooked.
The few times I've seen him laugh, it was in Vegas; he calls his favorite
city "Lost Wages." I went, once, but it held no charm for me. Norman goes
once each season; I used to joke that he was being serviced by exotic women.
Part of me wished it were true, but I know Norman. Women hold no passion
for him. I suppose that money does.
#
"My daughter comes tomorrow, Estelle. She'll bring my ChiChi
with her, too. Thank Heavens -- I do love that dog."
"A hero, that dog!"
"True, I guess. And he's my baby."
"So, Gert? What's going on with the addition? Will you be
leaving us soon?"
"Norman is working on it, still. He's a good man, Norman. I'm
so glad Amy found him. Not like that first husband of hers, the bum."
"You mean the painter? The house painter?"
"No, a picture painter. An 'artist'." She pronounced it
ar-Teest. Estelle's curls bobbed as she laughed. Gert nodded, and peered
out the window.
#
As Amy dressed, Norman considered the addition. He was opposed, but no
longer, as Amy said, violently. It had potential.
If only the fire had worked.
"We'd better hurry, Norman," Amy called.
Odds were good, Gert might have a heart attack. He smiled.
"Patience," he said. "You must have patience."
----
END
Heather
I wasn't sure why I felt that way until the end and was surprised that I did
feel that way because little was said to indicate a man like that. Good
writing.
Heather
"nativelaw" <REMOVEn...@OUTnativelaw.com> wrote in message
news:vip3c.1474$Ck4....@news02.roc.ny...
nativelaw
--
---
"Heather" <bigd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cup3c.30091$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Throughout the entire story I found myself disliking Norman with a
passion.
> I wasn't sure why I felt that way until the end and was surprised that I
did
> feel that way because little was said to indicate a man like that. Good
> writing.
Thanks, Heather. I shouldn't have written the story with the longest
section coming first -- all others were smart and saved the long spot for
the middle or end -- and we won't talk about the predictability of plots --
but I'm happy to have finished a challenge -- first time in 13 months!
Thanks for reading.
Andrea
Wildepad
The longest part first was the right decision for this story. I'd say
that the ending was just the right length -- anything more would have
watered it down.
Wildepad
<REMOVEn...@OUTnativelaw.com> wrote:
>Wow. Quite tough trying not to sacrificing subtance over form, with this
>challenge. I didn't write the story I wanted -- this is sort of a cheat --
>but having failed to finish anything in months, just finishing was fun!
I don't think you sacrificed any substance.
Good writing, and a perfect twist.
Heather
"Wildepad" <wild...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:75ks40tk0914a1sn4...@4ax.com...
didn't like him. It was just a feeling you got from the woman's thoughts.
If it had come before, the fun would have been spoiled. I didn't mean for
it to come across sounding a different way and I apoligize if it did.
Heather
Alexandra
Overall, I kind of liked how Amy and Norman had his or her own idea of
patience. Good concept. But what was Gert's idea of patience? That
would be something to expand upon. I sort of sensed her anticipation,
but perhaps you ought to expand the section on her and about her life
according to her. The reader has to rely mostly on Amy's take. I
didn't fully read the challenge requirements, so perhaps you were
doing that for a point. My nits below:
> Patience
> 958/100/50
>
> In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I have
> little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
I have a pet peeve about having a narrator say "I think" a lot or "I
wonder". It sounds too much like a diary. I'd just have her open up
the story with: "My ex lacked patience" and go from there. You can
show she's in the shower. The bit you had about the water trickling
was good because it showed what people do when they think; they fidget
or play with something.
> "Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is distorted
> through the mottled glass door of the surround.
>
> "I don't see why not."
>
> "I don't see why."
>
> I don't say, because soon she'll be gone. I know my mom will live another
> decade, at least. Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how a
> good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
> sounds nicer than nursing home and costs enough to make loved ones penitent,
> though my mother foots the bill herself) and build her a neat addition to
> our cape. Even though she has lots of money, and offered to pay for the
> whole, Norman was against it. I would have had to stay with her, of course.
> I didn't mind. The one time in life I was willing to sacrifice, willing to
> give up my career for someone I loved, and it was too late. Norman insisted
> that I needed to work; making money was part of who I was.
This sounds a lot like a diary entry. Try to show more of Amy's need
to be the go-getter, the money-maker, the good daughter. I'll take
one of your telling sentences: I know my mom will live another
decade--show how Amy's mother will do just that with the kinds of
activities she does. Also, how does Amy feel about her mother's
vitality?
> But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it, made
> me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food service
> industry publication. My specialty is the annual cheese convention. You
> can laugh, but it brings in a fortune for the company.
Sounds a little like ad copy of a working mother. I know she's all
gung-ho about her career, but don't let slick words do the work for
you. Some writers name drop relics from the 70s or 80s in order to
convey a different time, which I think is laziness.
> If we did build an addition, of course it couldn't have a kitchen; no stove
> upon which to leave a teapot bubbling until the water boils away and its
> ceramic base blackens and cracks, forcing a chunk to split and crack and
> fall onto the linoleum, burning a quarter-sized hole and causing volumes of
> smoke with a distinctly acrid smell. Fortunately when this occurred-- last
> Spring--Mom's aging chihauhau barked a neighbor alert before any rooms
> beyond the kitchen were aflame. But I insisted -- that was the end of Mom
> living alone. Norman and I have the Chihuahua, and bring it each week on
> our visits to her so it can piss on the antiseptic linoleum in greeting.
> Norman hates that dog.
This is GOOD. This was the best passage.
> I wring a washcloth, pondering how trickles become streams. If I'd been
> sharper in my youth, I might have seen that if you aren't careful, the life
> you plan might eventually break away. With little notice, it will pull from
> your hand and catch in the froth and foam of years. Till one day you stand,
> knee-deep in turbulence, and spy your other self climbing from the water
> onto the banks of a distant shore, looking happy and carefree. You watch,
> mouth agape, but can make no sound.
OK.
> That's unproductive, isn't it. I've got to stop the daydreams, of late.
> Nothing escaped me, in truth -- I divorced John, and my other self, four
> years ago. I escaped, is what I thought. We have a new life, Norm and I.
> No one wants to hear about the first marriage that didn't work. The Wife
> who wanted a career and the Husband who wanted to dream, and paint. The one
> where over time, their thoughts that her working and his staying home went
> from "freeing' and "enlightened" to ruminations on blank canvas, a fuzzy
> silence like static on an old TV. I don't know why I even think about these
> things, still. I'm happy, now. It's for the best.
This is part diary entry and part the style you had above. You do the
same below, but I won't keep making note of it. <g>
> "I hope your mother isn't going to push about moving in, again." Norman
> peers at me with his brows furrowed, his mustache atwitter.
>
> "Why don't you tell her, once and for all, Norman? If we aren't going to do
> it, she deserves to know."
>
> "You tell her. She's your mother."
>
> "Tell her what? That you're violently opposed to the concept?"
>
> If I were to write that old story--the one about the career wife, and artist
> husband -- well. There it is again. I wouldn't, of course. But if I
> did -- if I had watched their lives and really seen them, instead of looking
> over, around and under -- it might have been different. I might have
> noticed more. Anyone else might have seen. Like when the husband hadn't
> sold a painting in seven months and didn't want to come to bed, any more.
> Or when the wife was asked to take over her department. How afraid she was
> to tell her husband! Afraid to suggest they celebrate, fearing that the
> image of her reach for the wallet to pay for dinner would hover over his
> head and insinuate itself into the balloon of his thoughts like some kind of
> bad comic. Silly little things, in retrospect. Things that weren't
> important, that should have been discarded as unimportant.
>
> What had happened to them? In the old days, none of it would have mattered;
> they would have drank wine and made love and laughed at the stupidity of it
> all. At least, they would have had each other.
>
> "Well?" Norman says. He taps his foot.
Can she hear him tapping his foot outside of the shower? Maybe he's
rapping on the shower door instead?
Norman's a stoic.
Best,
Alex
nativelaw
---
"Alexandra" <ajd74...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2aa5b378.04030...@posting.google.com...
> Hi Andrea,
Hi Alexandra,
> Overall, I kind of liked how Amy and Norman had his or her own idea of
> patience. Good concept. But what was Gert's idea of patience? That
> would be something to expand upon.
Thanks for reading. For my idea behind this story, Gert's idea of patience
really wasn't so important.
For this particular I sort of sensed her anticipation,
> but perhaps you ought to expand the section on her and about her life
> according to her. The reader has to rely mostly on Amy's take. I
> didn't fully read the challenge requirements, so perhaps you were
> doing that for a point.
Yes. The story took its particular form very much from the challenge.
My nits below:
>
> > Patience
> > 958/100/50
> >
> > In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I
have
> > little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
>
> I have a pet peeve about having a narrator say "I think" a lot or "I
> wonder". It sounds too much like a diary.
This was deliberately introspective, and I wanted the narrator to appear
uncertain, but I appreciate the POV.
<snip>
>This sounds a lot like a diary entry. Try to show more of Amy's need
> to be the go-getter, the money-maker, the good daughter. I'll take
> one of your telling sentences: I know my mom will live another
> decade--show how Amy's mother will do just that with the kinds of
> activities she does. Also, how does Amy feel about her mother's
> vitality?
I would consider her in part, an unreliable narrator -- or at least, one who
is not entirely certain how she has gotten herself into certain situations,
and is still in the process of learning from them. So it would indeed sound
diary-entryish. I hadn't thought about how she feels about her mother's
vitality, or that it matters, really; I'll consider it.
>
> > But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it,
made
> > me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food
service
> > industry publication. My specialty is the annual cheese convention.
You
> > can laugh, but it brings in a fortune for the company.
>
> Sounds a little like ad copy of a working mother.
Sort of the point, how one's language becoming what it represents. How we
convey a cliche and use cliched terms to do so. It was in that vein. Your
point is taken though.
<snip>
> This is GOOD. This was the best passage.
Thanks. Though I thought it was a bit wordy and redundant in parts.
<snip>
> This is part diary entry and part the style you had above. You do the
> same below, but I won't keep making note of it. <g>
Thanks -- hopefully, it would be consistent.
She may not be in the shower, at this point, though. There's a shower
earlier and later she's dressing; I think I meant this for in between.
You think? Too subtle, then, at the end.
Thanks for reading, Alexandra.
Andrea
nativelaw
"Wildepad" <wild...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:i2ks40tq33t2k4t1r...@4ax.com...
You are too kind.
<begin chorus of Hail, To The Challenge Setter...> <g>
nativelaw
"Heather" <bigd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:C7t3c.30401$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Not at all, Heather! No offense taken. Thanks for the read,
Andrea
Bart Hopson
> challenge. I didn't write the story I wanted -- this is sort of a cheat --
> but having failed to finish anything in months, just finishing was fun!
>
> --------------
>
>
> Patience
> 958/100/50
Andrea,
Nice to see another story from you. Can't recall the last one I've
read. This challenge has been interesting. Seemed hard and very
strange at first glance, but sort of got the juices flowing once it
was attempted.
This was a fine example, and an interesting choice to put the
exposition up front. I liked how the clues to the twist were so very
subtle and told from someone's eyes with a positively biased viewpoint
towards the twist personality, but still the clues still came through,
if nothing more than an uneasy feeling for the reader about the
particular character. I was being told that the protag liked him,
loved him, and I kept asking myself, "why?" after each little subtle
hint. Even the second section should have given me no reason not to
like the guy, but I still had a feeling, setting me up for the one
two, KO.
Nicely done.
Only one general comment:
> In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I have
> little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
I think you should punch this, and the entire first section, up a bit.
I'm thinking some more immediacy to it. I found myself skipping or
skimming whole sections of exposition to get at the meat of the thing,
pausing at the dialogue bits. Of course, once I got to the end, I
wish I'd read in more detail. If you could more closely associate and
thread the conversation through the exposition a bit more, I think
that might just do the trick.
But, that's all I had. An effective story and a great twist. Always
a pleasure to read your work, Andrea. I assume we'll be seeing more
of it now that you're no longer chained in the archive dungeon?
Bart
nativelaw
---
"Bart Hopson" <bart_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:14974d3e.04031...@posting.google.com...
> "nativelaw" <REMOVEn...@OUTnativelaw.com> wrote in message
news:<vip3c.1474$Ck4....@news02.roc.ny>...
> >
> > Patience
> > 958/100/50
>
> Andrea,
>
> Nice to see another story from you. Can't recall the last one I've
> read. This challenge has been interesting. Seemed hard and very
> strange at first glance, but sort of got the juices flowing once it
> was attempted.
Hi Bart,
agreed! Never expected I'd enter this one at first but the challenge of the
form was calling.
>
> This was a fine example, and an interesting choice to put the
> exposition up front. I liked how the clues to the twist were so very
> subtle and told from someone's eyes with a positively biased viewpoint
> towards the twist personality, but still the clues still came through,
> if nothing more than an uneasy feeling for the reader about the
> particular character. I was being told that the protag liked him,
> loved him, and I kept asking myself, "why?" after each little subtle
> hint. Even the second section should have given me no reason not to
> like the guy, but I still had a feeling, setting me up for the one
> two, KO.
>
> Nicely done.
Thanks, much!
>
> Only one general comment:
>
> > In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I
have
> > little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
>
> I think you should punch this, and the entire first section, up a bit.
> I'm thinking some more immediacy to it. I found myself skipping or
> skimming whole sections of exposition to get at the meat of the thing,
> pausing at the dialogue bits. Of course, once I got to the end, I
> wish I'd read in more detail. If you could more closely associate and
> thread the conversation through the exposition a bit more, I think
> that might just do the trick.
I think that's the key; yes, thanks, Bart. The reason I said that the story
was sort of a cheat was because the original, different idea and about 130
words of the opening came before the challenge and was stalled (from boredom
: ), so I changed and converted it to be a challenge story and added the
twist. But I'm overly endeared to having complexities in stories that may
be superfluous and I don't think I'm very good at twist endings so wasn't
sure if this one was overly or underly done or stayed enough on task.
>
> But, that's all I had. An effective story and a great twist. Always
> a pleasure to read your work, Andrea. I assume we'll be seeing more
> of it now that you're no longer chained in the archive dungeon?
I sure hope so! I'll be happy if I can review more, and finish writing some
of the stuff cluttering my hard drive (the mental one and the one on my PC
<g>).
Thanks for reading. I'm looking forward to Molly's Garden and I read that I
missed another great one of yours I think last challenge, which I'm going to
look for.
Andrea
Mick
> Wow. Quite tough trying not to sacrificing subtance over form, with this
> challenge.
Really makes you think, doesn't it?
> I didn't write the story I wanted -- this is sort of a cheat --
> but having failed to finish anything in months, just finishing was fun!
I've read once, and thought, "Yum!" That means "What a good story!" Now reading
for crits...
> --------------
>
> Patience
> 958/100/50
>
> In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I have
> little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
>
> "Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is distorted
> through the mottled glass door of the surround.
>
> "I don't see why not."
>
> "I don't see why."
>
> I don't say, because soon she'll be gone. I know my mom will live another
> decade, at least. Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how a
> good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
> sounds nicer than nursing home and costs enough to make loved ones penitent,
> though my mother foots the bill herself) and build her a neat addition to
> our cape.
I don't know what a cape is. Well, I do know what a cape is, but not in this
context.
> Even though she has lots of money, and offered to pay for the
> whole, Norman was against it. I would have had to stay with her, of course.
> I didn't mind. The one time in life I was willing to sacrifice, willing to
> give up my career for someone I loved, and it was too late. Norman insisted
> that I needed to work; making money was part of who I was.
>
> But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it, made
> me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food service
> industry publication. My specialty is the annual cheese convention. You
> can laugh, but it brings in a fortune for the company.
I like this. Good details showing the character.
> If we did build an addition, of course it couldn't have a kitchen; no stove
> upon which to leave a teapot bubbling until the water boils away and its
> ceramic base blackens and cracks, forcing a chunk to split and crack and
> fall onto the linoleum, burning a quarter-sized hole and causing volumes of
> smoke with a distinctly acrid smell.
That was long. I got bored three quarters of the way through, then thought,
"Oh, maybe this is being described so exactly because it's happened," so read
on to find that was so. Don't know what you'll make of that :)
> Fortunately when this occurred-- last
> Spring--Mom's aging chihauhau barked a neighbor alert
I like 'barked a neighbor alert'--good concise phrasing.
> before any rooms
> beyond the kitchen were aflame. But I insisted -- that was the end of Mom
> living alone. Norman and I have the Chihuahua, and bring it each week on
> our visits to her so it can piss on the antiseptic linoleum in greeting.
> Norman hates that dog.
I suspect Wildepad won't be keen on 'piss' since part of the challenge
requirements was to make the piece suitable for a family mag; if you do a
revision you could change this to some vanilla version suitable to your
narrator's voice (pee, piddle, wee, widdle, urinate...).
> I wring a washcloth, pondering how trickles become streams. If I'd been
> sharper in my youth, I might have seen that if you aren't careful, the life
> you plan might eventually break away.
It can, it do...
I don't think you need that comma.
> Or when the wife was asked to take over her department. How afraid she was
> to tell her husband!
Great circumstance to illustrate the failure of the first marriage--she feels
anxiety about hubbie rather than happy about the promotion.
> Afraid to suggest they celebrate, fearing that the
> image of her reach for the wallet to pay for dinner would hover over his
> head and insinuate itself into the balloon of his thoughts like some kind of
> bad comic. Silly little things, in retrospect. Things that weren't
> important, that should have been discarded as unimportant.
>
> What had happened to them? In the old days, none of it would have mattered;
> they would have drank wine and made love and laughed at the stupidity of it
> all. At least, they would have had each other.
>
> "Well?" Norman says. He taps his foot.
>
> Sometimes I think about what it would be like to be someone else. Living in
> another country, maybe. Norman is not big on travel. He will go, if the
> destination involves gambling. He's happy, spending hours in a casino,
> soaking in the smoke and tension, entranced in the dance of losing. What he
> wins is just enough, always, to keep him hooked.
>
> The few times I've seen him laugh, it was in Vegas; he calls his favorite
> city "Lost Wages." I went, once, but it held no charm for me. Norman goes
> once each season; I used to joke that he was being serviced by exotic women.
> Part of me wished it were true, but I know Norman. Women hold no passion
> for him. I suppose that money does.
This is well-done. Her narration is not linear--that is, it wanders back and
forth considering the past relationship and the present--so this illustration
of Norman's ahem priorities doesn't stick out, but nonetheless is the most
obvious thing we know about him for the last two sections.
> #
>
> "My daughter comes tomorrow, Estelle. She'll bring my ChiChi
> with her, too. Thank Heavens -- I do love that dog."
>
> "A hero, that dog!"
>
> "True, I guess. And he's my baby."
>
> "So, Gert? What's going on with the addition? Will you be
> leaving us soon?"
>
> "Norman is working on it, still. He's a good man, Norman. I'm
> so glad Amy found him. Not like that first husband of hers, the bum."
>
> "You mean the painter? The house painter?"
>
> "No, a picture painter. An 'artist'." She pronounced it
> ar-Teest. Estelle's curls bobbed as she laughed. Gert nodded, and peered
> out the window.
Poor old Gert. Must happen a lot that the elderly don't quite see what their
children and children's partners think of them...
At this point I was simply wondering what the story would end up being about. I
wasn't bored. I was interested to see where you'd go with the various pieces.
> #
>
> As Amy dressed, Norman considered the addition. He was opposed, but no
> longer, as Amy said, violently. It had potential.
>
> If only the fire had worked.
Blammo. Got me completely. I hadn't even considered that the fire might not
have been accidental.
> "We'd better hurry, Norman," Amy called.
>
> Odds were good, Gert might have a heart attack. He smiled.
>
> "Patience," he said. "You must have patience."
Oooooh, creepy Norman the gold-digger.
Very nice work, Andrea.
Mick.
--
"You are the music while the music lasts" - Antonio Damasio (after TS Eliot).
Jeff Howell
>Patience
>958/100/50
I think this is my first crit for you - hope you find it helpful.
Nits, cold single pass, the comment.
>"Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is distorted
>through the mottled glass door of the surround.
Heavy going here. Norman is her second, current husband. Right?
>"I don't see why not."
>
>"I don't see why."
>
This is not patience, IMHO, it is tolerance.
> Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how a
>good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
>sounds nicer than nursing home and costs enough to make loved ones penitent,
>though my mother foots the bill herself) and build her a neat addition to
>our cape.
A terribly long sentence, even with parentheses. And what is a 'cape'?
>I didn't mind. The one time in life I was willing to sacrifice, willing to
>give up my career for someone I loved, and it was too late.
These staccato sentences spook me.
>If we did build an addition, of course it couldn't have a kitchen; no stove
>...
>Norman hates that dog.
Great picture, except for that massive long sentence at the start.
>
>I wring a washcloth, pondering how trickles become streams. If I'd been
> ...
>mouth agape, but can make no sound.
Not so great picture - does not work for me at all.
>peers at me with his brows furrowed, his mustache atwitter.
Atwitter??
> "You mean the painter? The house painter?"
Not sure if she is referring to the first husband or the second one here.
>Odds were good, Gert might have a heart attack. He smiled.
Does he mean in the addition, or before they arrive at the home?
So dark and full of menace! Excellent five-star plot. Difficulty with some of
the detail though. For example, Amy describes herself as paying for a meal out,
because her husband cannot, but I do not know if this is a flashback to her
first marriage or the near-present. Is John the failed painter, or Norman? Amy
tends to witter away a lot as well, and her speech is strangely inconsistent for
a successful senior manageress. I am sure you can fix easily that, though.
Regards, Jeff
http://website.lineone.net/~jeff.howell
R. Westermeyer
<REMOVEn...@OUTnativelaw.com> wrote:
>Wow. Quite tough trying not to sacrificing subtance over form, with this
>challenge. I didn't write the story I wanted -- this is sort of a cheat --
>but having failed to finish anything in months, just finishing was fun!
Good news, Andrea. Keep it rolling.
>--------------
>
>
>Patience
>958/100/50
>
>In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I have
>little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
>
>"Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is distorted
>through the mottled glass door of the surround.
I like how this starts. Mood setter.
>"I don't see why not."
>
>"I don't see why."
>
>I don't say, because soon she'll be gone. I know my mom will live another
>decade, at least. Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how a
>good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
>sounds nicer than nursing home and costs enough to make loved ones penitent,
>though my mother foots the bill herself) and build her a neat addition to
>our cape. Even though she has lots of money, and offered to pay for the
>whole, Norman was against it. I would have had to stay with her, of course.
>I didn't mind. The one time in life I was willing to sacrifice, willing to
>give up my career for someone I loved, and it was too late. Norman insisted
>that I needed to work; making money was part of who I was.
>
>But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it, made
>me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food service
>industry publication. My specialty is the annual cheese convention. You
>can laugh, but it brings in a fortune for the company.
Yes. People do like cheese.
>your hand and catch in the froth and foam of years. Till one day you stand,
>knee-deep in turbulence, and spy your other self climbing from the water
>onto the banks of a distant shore, looking happy and carefree. You watch,
>mouth agape, but can make no sound.
>
>That's unproductive, isn't it. I've got to stop the daydreams, of late.
I like this self-conscious story-teller. INtruding on the reader with
her self-criticism.
>Nothing escaped me, in truth -- I divorced John, and my other self, four
>years ago. I escaped, is what I thought. We have a new life, Norm and I.
>No one wants to hear about the first marriage that didn't work. The Wife
>Sometimes I think about what it would be like to be someone else. Living in
>another country, maybe. Norman is not big on travel. He will go, if the
>destination involves gambling. He's happy, spending hours in a casino,
>soaking in the smoke and tension, entranced in the dance of losing.
Damn, sensorium!
>What he
>wins is just enough, always, to keep him hooked.
>
>The few times I've seen him laugh, it was in Vegas; he calls his favorite
>city "Lost Wages." I went, once, but it held no charm for me. Norman goes
>once each season; I used to joke that he was being serviced by exotic women.
>#
>
>
>As Amy dressed, Norman considered the addition. He was opposed, but no
>longer, as Amy said, violently. It had potential.
>
>If only the fire had worked.
>
>"We'd better hurry, Norman," Amy called.
>
>Odds were good, Gert might have a heart attack. He smiled.
>
>"Patience," he said. "You must have patience."
>
>----
>END
>
>
Head spinning after this one. This is one of your best, challenge or
otherwise. Amy is so well-depicted. So palpable. Don't read enough
about female characters like this. These days, they can't have this
sort of...acceptance (?). They don't funeral-dance with their gloom,
like this one; they have to be above it or immersed in it, not really
with it, if that makes any sense.
The last part was very creative, and made me feel good in a way. This
couple will be okay. The ugly thoughts won't diminish, but it won't
ruin them, as is the case so often.
I don't know if this was supposed to be as evocative as my experience
was, or if I'm right on with regard to the story's meaning. I just
know I really liked it a lot.
--Bob
Jack flops on his stool
Sees the grinning man laugh
So Jack laughs back
Jack raises his glass
Says, "God bless this country
And everything in it
The losers and the winners
The good buys and the sinners"
The grinning man says, "Buddy
it's all yackety yack"
Whips out a little black pistol
shoots a bullet in Jack.
--from "Jangling Jack" by NC&TBS
Alexandra
> really wasn't so important.
Hmm. Okay. I just thought of Gert, the lonely, elderly woman, and I
felt bad for her.
> My nits below:
> >
> > > Patience
> > > 958/100/50
> > >
> > > In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I
> have
> > > little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
> >
> > I have a pet peeve about having a narrator say "I think" a lot or "I
> > wonder". It sounds too much like a diary.
> >This sounds a lot like a diary entry. Try to show more of Amy's need
> > to be the go-getter, the money-maker, the good daughter. I'll take
> > one of your telling sentences: I know my mom will live another
> > decade--show how Amy's mother will do just that with the kinds of
> > activities she does. Also, how does Amy feel about her mother's
> > vitality?
>
> I would consider her in part, an unreliable narrator -- or at least, one who
> is not entirely certain how she has gotten herself into certain situations,
> and is still in the process of learning from them. So it would indeed sound
> diary-entryish. I hadn't thought about how she feels about her mother's
> vitality, or that it matters, really; I'll consider it.
>
You can have a person narrate so she is reflective and thoughtful
without sounding like she's dumping her thoughts in a diary. It can
be done. I'm rereading Invisible Man, and it's probably the most
introspective novel ever written. The narrator of Invisible Man is
also going through a process, but doesn't express his thoughts as if
he's Carrie Bradshaw from Sex and the City. (I really HATE that
show.) Rarely does the narrator say "I think" or "I wonder" unless he
is stating a strong opinion to which he wants to call the reader's
attention. If you're concerned that the reader won't get that she's
being reflective if you just launch into the flashback, don't worry.
Many a sophisticated reader would get it. You may not be worried
about that, but I just said that just in case. <g>
> > > But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it,
> made
> > > me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food
> service
> > > industry publication. My specialty is the annual cheese convention.
> You
> > > can laugh, but it brings in a fortune for the company.
> >
> > Sounds a little like ad copy of a working mother.
>
> Sort of the point, how one's language becoming what it represents. How we
> convey a cliche and use cliched terms to do so. It was in that vein. Your
> point is taken though.
I know what you mean, but I just have an aesthetic aversion to this
kind of writing. I've said in other posts that cliches are at the
surface of our consciousness, and when you look deep and translate
what you see, your language becomes free from hackneyed words. If you
had her say those things in dialogue, it would bother me a lot less
because many people speak in cliches. What I would suggest is show
with a few sentences of some specifics of her job. Go crazy with the
corporate jargon. That'll get your point across about her being a
gung-ho marketing exec.
> > This is GOOD. This was the best passage.
>
> Thanks. Though I thought it was a bit wordy and redundant in parts.
>
> <snip>
No. I really saw the mother's nascent senility. You could tighten it
a bit, but don't mess with it a whole lot.
<snip>
> >
> > > #
> > >
> > >
> > > As Amy dressed, Norman considered the addition. He was opposed, but no
> > > longer, as Amy said, violently. It had potential.
> > >
> > > If only the fire had worked.
> > >
> > > "We'd better hurry, Norman," Amy called.
> > >
> > > Odds were good, Gert might have a heart attack. He smiled.
> > >
> > > "Patience," he said. "You must have patience."
> > >
> > > ----
> > > END
> >
> >
> > Norman's a stoic.
>
> You think? Too subtle, then, at the end.
No, it's the right amount of subtle.
Best, Alex
Anopheles
Ha! I have an elderly relation who had two of the damn creatures. One of
each. They were close to the end of their lives yet they still screwed each
other stupid. Every day. We would visit and the dogs(?) would be at it under
the dining table. The bitch was worst. She would lie on her back and demand
a good licking. The poor old guy would oblige, but it was plain his heart
wasn't in it. And, oh yes, the pissing on the carpet. All I wanted to do was
to pick the two %$#$$s up and flush them down the toilet.
That "always" is questionable, Andrea. Could drop it or move it to replace
"just".
Yes, the famous Anopheles principle, ":Do nothing and do it quick!"
Nicely done, Andrea. I dare say this could be edited and made tighter even
if this Challenge doesn't lead to typical structures. Enjoyable though.
Anopheles
nativelaw
"Alexandra" <ajd74...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2aa5b378.04031...@posting.google.com...
> > Thanks for reading. For my idea behind this story, Gert's idea of
patience
> > really wasn't so important.
>
> Hmm. Okay. I just thought of Gert, the lonely, elderly woman, and I
> felt bad for her.
>
> > My nits below:
> > >
> > > > Patience
> > > > 958/100/50
> > > >
> >
>
> You can have a person narrate so she is reflective and thoughtful
> without sounding like she's dumping her thoughts in a diary.
Yes, I have no doubt. I'm not interested in changing the style of narration
for this particular story, though. Different strokes, as they say.
Thanks again, Alexandra.
Andrea
nativelaw
"Mick" <mic...@hotmail.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:404F705E...@hotmail.comNOSPAM...
> nativelaw wrote:
>
> >
> > Patience
> > 958/100/50
> >
> > In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I
have
> > little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
> >
> > "Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is
distorted
> > through the mottled glass door of the surround.
> >
> > "I don't see why not."
> >
> > "I don't see why."
> >
> > I don't say, because soon she'll be gone. I know my mom will live
another
> > decade, at least. Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how
a
> > good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
> > sounds nicer than nursing home and costs enough to make loved ones
penitent,
> > though my mother foots the bill herself) and build her a neat addition
to
> > our cape.
>
> I don't know what a cape is. Well, I do know what a cape is, but not in
this
> context.
Sorry -- a couple of persons have mentioned this. It's a common style of
house, in the U.S. A two story where the second floor is sloping walls that
follow the roofline, and often that floor is dormered and has front windows.
Short for a "Cape Cod" -- I assume the style originated in Massachusetts.
There's a picture on the bottom page of this link:
http://www.syracusehomes.com/syracuse_architect.html
>
> > Even though she has lots of money, and offered to pay for the
> > whole, Norman was against it. I would have had to stay with her, of
course.
> > I didn't mind. The one time in life I was willing to sacrifice, willing
to
> > give up my career for someone I loved, and it was too late. Norman
insisted
> > that I needed to work; making money was part of who I was.
> >
> > But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it,
made
> > me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food
service
> > industry publication. My specialty is the annual cheese convention.
You
> > can laugh, but it brings in a fortune for the company.
>
> I like this. Good details showing the character.
Thanks.
>
> > If we did build an addition, of course it couldn't have a kitchen; no
stove
> > upon which to leave a teapot bubbling until the water boils away and its
> > ceramic base blackens and cracks, forcing a chunk to split and crack and
> > fall onto the linoleum, burning a quarter-sized hole and causing volumes
of
> > smoke with a distinctly acrid smell.
>
> That was long. I got bored three quarters of the way through, then
thought,
> "Oh, maybe this is being described so exactly because it's happened," so
read
> on to find that was so. Don't know what you'll make of that :)
>
> > Fortunately when this occurred-- last
> > Spring--Mom's aging chihauhau barked a neighbor alert
>
> I like 'barked a neighbor alert'--good concise phrasing.
Thank you.
>
> > before any rooms
> > beyond the kitchen were aflame. But I insisted -- that was the end of
Mom
> > living alone. Norman and I have the Chihuahua, and bring it each week
on
> > our visits to her so it can piss on the antiseptic linoleum in greeting.
> > Norman hates that dog.
>
> I suspect Wildepad won't be keen on 'piss' since part of the challenge
> requirements was to make the piece suitable for a family mag; if you do a
> revision you could change this to some vanilla version suitable to your
> narrator's voice (pee, piddle, wee, widdle, urinate...).
Oops. You know, I completely missed that part of the challenge. I also
mentioned drinking wine and making love. Wilde, if you read this, you may
feel free to disqualify my entry from the challenge. I was actually going to
call this "challenge inspired" anyway because I wasn't sure if it met all
the requirements.
>
> > I wring a washcloth, pondering how trickles become streams. If I'd been
> > sharper in my youth, I might have seen that if you aren't careful, the
life
> > you plan might eventually break away.
>
> It can, it do...
Yes... if only I could give up the plans <g>
>
<snip>
>
> I don't think you need that comma.
>
> > Or when the wife was asked to take over her department. How afraid she
was
> > to tell her husband!
>
> Great circumstance to illustrate the failure of the first marriage--she
feels
> anxiety about hubbie rather than happy about the promotion.
Thanks.
Thanks. Not all enjoy this digressive sort of style but I'm partial to it.
>
> > #
> >
> > "My daughter comes tomorrow, Estelle. She'll bring my
ChiChi
> > with her, too. Thank Heavens -- I do love that dog."
> >
> > "A hero, that dog!"
> >
> > "True, I guess. And he's my baby."
> >
> > "So, Gert? What's going on with the addition? Will you be
> > leaving us soon?"
> >
> > "Norman is working on it, still. He's a good man, Norman.
I'm
> > so glad Amy found him. Not like that first husband of hers, the bum."
> >
> > "You mean the painter? The house painter?"
> >
> > "No, a picture painter. An 'artist'." She pronounced it
> > ar-Teest. Estelle's curls bobbed as she laughed. Gert nodded, and
peered
> > out the window.
>
> Poor old Gert. Must happen a lot that the elderly don't quite see what
their
> children and children's partners think of them...
I think often it's probably for the best that they don't.
In my real life, my husband's grandmother was a "Gert." I loved that woman.
I don't think she had the emphasis on the importance of money this Gert did,
though, or would place love over money, though she was fairly well off
herself having earned it the hard way, a lot of work, running a bar/hotel as
a young widow (she subsequently remarried three times). She was a pretty
remarkable woman, having worked so many jobs and she was also a concert
pianist, traveled to Europe once or twice to play.
But so many elderly are neglected. We used to go visit her at the "home"
(she was moved there after leaving a pot boiling in the apartment built for
her within my inlaw's house) and god, you want to talk about depressing.
You just feel like no one deserves that kind of indignity. And that was a
nice place. She could leave any time, go to lunch or dinner with us or
spend the day, we just "signed her out." My inlaws visited weekly and we
visited often, but still you could see the decline in spirit, as much as
anything else. It killed me. From there it was the nursing home -- an
irony, since she had worked there as an attendant as a young woman. You
don't leave the nursing home much. She became very upset with her daughter,
and my sister in law and I were at odds with our mother in law often over
her care. Then there are those in the home that were always cheery even when
inside they were dying. You want to talk about stoics.
Well, anyway. This is a topic we all face at some point, relative's care,
and our own aging too and treatment of elderly and I could go on for weeks
here, but won't, as the story was only tangentially related to this anyway.
> At this point I was simply wondering what the story would end up being
about. I
> wasn't bored. I was interested to see where you'd go with the various
pieces.
You are kind.
>
> > #
> >
> > As Amy dressed, Norman considered the addition. He was opposed, but no
> > longer, as Amy said, violently. It had potential.
> >
> > If only the fire had worked.
>
> Blammo. Got me completely. I hadn't even considered that the fire might
not
> have been accidental.
>
> > "We'd better hurry, Norman," Amy called.
> >
> > Odds were good, Gert might have a heart attack. He smiled.
> >
> > "Patience," he said. "You must have patience."
>
> Oooooh, creepy Norman the gold-digger.
>
> Very nice work, Andrea.
>
> Mick.
Thanks very much for reading, Mick.
Andrea
nativelaw
"Anopheles" <hi...@jeack.com.au> wrote in message
news:c2oq83$1v1fsi$1...@ID-34438.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
<snip>
>
> Ha! I have an elderly relation who had two of the damn creatures. One of
> each. They were close to the end of their lives yet they still screwed
each
> other stupid. Every day.
Something I'm sure we both disapprove of.
>We would visit and the dogs(?) would be at it under
> the dining table. The bitch was worst. She would lie on her back and
demand
> a good licking. The poor old guy would oblige, but it was plain his heart
> wasn't in it.
Lol.
I have the dumbest (male) cat in history. My daughter named him Champion.
He's not all there, ya know -- he runs into walls and furniture lots. But
he has an excuse -- he was left in a box for three days without food in
frigid temps when the Humane Society found him and he almost died. He's a
runt and I think he _is_ seriously brain damaged, but Ari wanted him.
Anyway, he adopted our Lhasa, Sam, as his mother (Sam is male) and they lick
each other all the time, too. The cat used to sleep on Sam's back as a
kitten; the problem is he still does, only now he's almost as big as the dog
and he digs his claws into the dog's skin, the dog bites him, then they snap
at each other and fight and then get back to licking. It's not sexual, just
a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" kind of thing. Funny, though.
And, oh yes, the pissing on the carpet. All I wanted to do was
> to pick the two %$#$$s up and flush them down the toilet.
Lol. We got rid of all the carpets in the house except the family room and
recently redid the floors (just finished the rest of them Tuesday.) I had a
stern talk with Sam and told him if he even THINKS about lifting a leg on
the new wood floors he's going to be a three legged dog.
> > soaking in the smoke and tension, entranced in the dance of losing.
What
> he
> > wins is just enough, always, to keep him hooked.
>
> That "always" is questionable, Andrea. Could drop it or move it to replace
> "just".
Good catch.
> Yes, the famous Anopheles principle, ":Do nothing and do it quick!"
Lol. Most problems solve themselves, though, I do find.
>
> Nicely done, Andrea. I dare say this could be edited and made tighter even
> if this Challenge doesn't lead to typical structures.
You're right.
Enjoyable though.
>
> Anopheles
Thanks, my friend.
nativelaw
Nice to meet you.
"Jeff Howell" <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote in message
news:404f9d13...@usenet.free-online.net...
> "nativelaw" <REMOVEn...@OUTnativelaw.com> wrote:
>
> >Patience
> >958/100/50
>
> I think this is my first crit for you - hope you find it helpful.
> Nits, cold single pass, the comment.
>
> >"Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is
distorted
> >through the mottled glass door of the surround.
> Heavy going here. Norman is her second, current husband. Right?
>
> >"I don't see why not."
> >
> >"I don't see why."
> >
> This is not patience, IMHO, it is tolerance.
I would agree.
>
> > Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how a
> >good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
> >sounds nicer than nursing home and costs enough to make loved ones
penitent,
> >though my mother foots the bill herself) and build her a neat addition to
> >our cape.
> A terribly long sentence, even with parentheses. And what is a 'cape'?
See my reply to Mick.
>
> >I didn't mind. The one time in life I was willing to sacrifice, willing
to
> >give up my career for someone I loved, and it was too late.
> These staccato sentences spook me.
> >If we did build an addition, of course it couldn't have a kitchen; no
stove
> >...
> >Norman hates that dog.
> Great picture, except for that massive long sentence at the start.
Tks.
> >I wring a washcloth, pondering how trickles become streams. If I'd been
> > ...
> >mouth agape, but can make no sound.
> Not so great picture - does not work for me at all.
>
> >peers at me with his brows furrowed, his mustache atwitter.
> Atwitter??
>
> > "You mean the painter? The house painter?"
> Not sure if she is referring to the first husband or the second one here.
Sorry, I'd thought that was clear. Husband #1 is an artist. #2, I had in
another draft that he was an investment banker but I guess I left his
occupation off entirely here.
>
> >Odds were good, Gert might have a heart attack. He smiled.
> Does he mean in the addition, or before they arrive at the home?
I think he just means an unspecified point in the future.
>
> So dark and full of menace! Excellent five-star plot. Difficulty with some
of
> the detail though. For example, Amy describes herself as paying for a meal
out,
> because her husband cannot, but I do not know if this is a flashback to
her
> first marriage or the near-present. Is John the failed painter, or Norman?
Sorry about that. John is the failed painter.
Amy
> tends to witter away a lot as well, and her speech is strangely
inconsistent for
> a successful senior manageress. I am sure you can fix easily that, though.
Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate your feedback.
Andrea
nativelaw
Hi Bob,
"R. Westermeyer" <rweste...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ijev40tbg102a8sfk...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 19:55:08 GMT, "nativelaw"
> <REMOVEn...@OUTnativelaw.com> wrote:
>
> >Wow. Quite tough trying not to sacrificing subtance over form, with this
> >challenge. I didn't write the story I wanted -- this is sort of a
cheat --
> >but having failed to finish anything in months, just finishing was fun!
>
> Good news, Andrea. Keep it rolling.
Thanks. Writing something is better than writing nothing, right? <g>
> >
> >Patience
> >958/100/50
> >
> >In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I
have
> >little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
> >
> >"Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is
distorted
> >through the mottled glass door of the surround.
>
>
> I like how this starts. Mood setter.
Thanks.
>
> >"I don't see why not."
> >
> >"I don't see why."
> >
> >I don't say, because soon she'll be gone. I know my mom will live
another
> >decade, at least. Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how a
> >good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
> >sounds nicer than nursing home and costs enough to make loved ones
penitent,
> >though my mother foots the bill herself) and build her a neat addition to
> >our cape. Even though she has lots of money, and offered to pay for the
> >whole, Norman was against it. I would have had to stay with her, of
course.
> >I didn't mind. The one time in life I was willing to sacrifice, willing
to
> >give up my career for someone I loved, and it was too late. Norman
insisted
> >that I needed to work; making money was part of who I was.
> >
> >But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it,
made
> >me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food
service
> >industry publication. My specialty is the annual cheese convention. You
> >can laugh, but it brings in a fortune for the company.
>
> Yes. People do like cheese.
Lol. I borrowed my sister's actual job for this. A great job, though --
she's traveled all over the country and to Europe and I haven't even seen
the west coast.
>
> >your hand and catch in the froth and foam of years. Till one day you
stand,
> >knee-deep in turbulence, and spy your other self climbing from the water
> >onto the banks of a distant shore, looking happy and carefree. You
watch,
> >mouth agape, but can make no sound.
> >
> >That's unproductive, isn't it. I've got to stop the daydreams, of late.
>
> I like this self-conscious story-teller. INtruding on the reader with
> her self-criticism.
Thanks. I really wanted her with that self-conscious, meandering style
though I know not everyone liked it.
It definitely does. And I'm really glad you liked it, as she's pretty real,
to me, though I know the style isn't loved by everyone.
>
> The last part was very creative, and made me feel good in a way. This
> couple will be okay. The ugly thoughts won't diminish, but it won't
> ruin them, as is the case so often.
>
> I don't know if this was supposed to be as evocative as my experience
> was, or if I'm right on with regard to the story's meaning. I just
> know I really liked it a lot.
>
> --Bob
Thanks, Bob. I really appreciate your reading. After I wrote the story I
went back and read it and saw that it could be really ambiguous, the ending;
Norman could have planned the demise of Gert, but Norman could also just be
a grumbling kind of guy who is hoping Gert will die and get out of their
lives, or Norman could just be blowing off steam.
I had originally titled this "Silly Little Things"; when I decided to tie
the ending to the opening line about patience and leave open the
implications of the end. I wanted it subtle, so that it could be read both
ways, but I was afraid it was too subtle.
Thanks for reviewing. I'm hoping to get caught up on critiques, I know I
missed a couple of yours.
Best,
Andrea
Alexandra
> > without sounding like she's dumping her thoughts in a diary.
>
> Yes, I have no doubt. I'm not interested in changing the style of narration
> for this particular story, though. Different strokes, as they say.
>
> Thanks again, Alexandra.
>
> Andrea
Sure. But, I wasn't urging you to change the narrative style so much
as to clip a few words. By clipping "I think" and tightening her
thoughts, you'd still have the heart of your narrative style and your
story would pack quite a punch.
Alex
michael
"nativelaw" <REMOVEn...@OUTnativelaw.com> wrote in message
news:vip3c.1474$Ck4....@news02.roc.ny...
> challenge. I didn't write the story I wanted -- this is sort of a
cheat --
> but having failed to finish anything in months, just finishing was fun!
Afternoon, 'Dre.
I thought this was excellent. It's the first story I've read for this
challenge that has turned the whole thing upside down, and made real use of
the device Wildepad has installed for the challenge - rather than seeming
constrained or a bit contrived, this flowed really well.
The wife knows the husband well - what a shame it isn't a little bit better,
the conniving bastard. Your writing is good and the story is great. Thanks
for posting this, I really did enjoy it.
Michael
nativelaw
"michael" <hail-s...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:c2su9k$2161ui$1...@ID-197978.news.uni-berlin.de...
Thanks, Michael. It was fun to write, just getting something, anything
finished is sheer joy.
Miki Kocic
I've seen your messages expressing joy at having finally completed
something. It's great when that happens; isn't it? These days I put no
pressure on myself whatsoever, so I end up writing more than I otherwise
would. You might want to try the same thing. Of course, you're a lot
busier than I am too.
This is a nice flash that could easily appear in McCall's. I don't
think it needs major reworking, so I've focused on tweaks:
nativelaw wrote:
> Patience
> 958/100/50
>
> In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I have
> little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
You say it happened the other morning, and then you use the present
tense, "I think." Unless there is some overwhelming reason to make a
bygone event present-tense, I would switch it to past tense. Either
that or get rid of the "other morning" reference. As it stands now, the
first sentence is confusing.
The long dash doesn't involve spaces--it's like this.
> "Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is distorted
> through the mottled glass door of the surround.
The identity Norman=husband isn't perfectly clear. The word "surround"
is not clear enough, although if I work at it, I can figure out that you
mean the translucent glass shower stall wall.
> I don't say, because soon she'll be gone. I know my mom will live another
> decade, at least. Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how a
> good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
The punctuation and elision choice here is ineffective. I would say:
"...at least, long enough for at least a hundred visits. I don't say
how a good daughter..."
> our cape. Even though she has lots of money, and offered to pay for the
> whole, Norman was against it.
The whole what? One additional word, please.
> But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it, made
> me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food service
You can leave out the comma after "Marketing."
>
> If we did build an addition, of course it couldn't have a kitchen; no stove
> upon which to leave a teapot bubbling until the water boils away and its
> ceramic base blackens and cracks, forcing a chunk to split and crack and
You don't need to repeat "and crack."
> fall onto the linoleum, burning a quarter-sized hole and causing volumes of
> smoke with a distinctly acrid smell. Fortunately when this occurred-- last
> Spring--Mom's aging chihauhau barked a neighbor alert before any rooms
You don't need the dashes. You can just say "when this occurred last
spring, Mom's..." And I'm unfamiliar with the chihauhau breed. Later
on you say Chihuaha, so I suspect it's either a typo or an error caused
by an automatic spellchecker. (I detest them.)
> I wring a washcloth, pondering how trickles become streams. If I'd been
> sharper in my youth, I might have seen that if you aren't careful, the life
> you plan might eventually break away. With little notice, it will pull from
> your hand and catch in the froth and foam of years. Till one day you stand,
> knee-deep in turbulence, and spy your other self climbing from the water
> onto the banks of a distant shore, looking happy and carefree. You watch,
> mouth agape, but can make no sound.
That's lyrical, but also confusing. She seems to be saying that she
wishes she had salvaged her marriage to John and would have been better
off for it, but it isn't completely clear.
> silence like static on an old TV. I don't know why I even think about these
> things, still. I'm happy, now. It's for the best.
Great job of conveying that she isn't convinced of this even though she
insists on it.
> "I hope your mother isn't going to push about moving in, again." Norman
> peers at me with his brows furrowed, his mustache atwitter.
You don't need the comma before "again."
> sold a painting in seven months and didn't want to come to bed, any more.
Again, no comma after "bed."
> to tell her husband! Afraid to suggest they celebrate, fearing that the
> image of her reach for the wallet to pay for dinner would hover over his
> head and insinuate itself into the balloon of his thoughts like some kind of
> bad comic.
Funny, but I have a habit of running into guys who live off their wives
with no hint of a bad conscience about it. There are more shiftless
gigolos in the world than seems to be the case at first glance.
> they would have drank wine
"...drunk wine..."
> Sometimes I think about what it would be like to be someone else. Living in
> another country, maybe. Norman is not big on travel. He will go, if the
> destination involves gambling. He's happy, spending hours in a casino,
> soaking in the smoke and tension, entranced in the dance of losing. What he
> wins is just enough, always, to keep him hooked.
Someone who is genuinely hooked on gambling ends up broke pretty quick,
but it's perceptive to notice that gambling addiction grows out of
materialism and leads to obsession with money.
> If only the fire had worked.
This is jarring because it makes it sound like he set the fire. It
takes things to a completely different head space and changes Norman
from a Rousseauan "bourgeois" (a flat-souled fellow of miscroscopic
spiritual proportions--different from the Marxist bourgeois) into an
attempted murderer.
I would say your first effort in a long time is worthwhile. Thanks for
the post, and hope my comments are helpful.
Miki
nativelaw
"Miki Kocic" <viathna...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:K%B4c.11047$j05.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hi Andrea:
>
> I've seen your messages expressing joy at having finally completed
> something. It's great when that happens; isn't it? These days I put no
> pressure on myself whatsoever, so I end up writing more than I otherwise
> would. You might want to try the same thing. Of course, you're a lot
> busier than I am too.
>
> This is a nice flash that could easily appear in McCall's. I don't
> think it needs major reworking, so I've focused on tweaks:
>
> nativelaw wrote:
>
> > Patience
> > 958/100/50
> >
> > In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I
have
> > little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
>
> You say it happened the other morning, and then you use the present
> tense, "I think." Unless there is some overwhelming reason to make a
> bygone event present-tense, I would switch it to past tense. Either
> that or get rid of the "other morning" reference. As it stands now, the
> first sentence is confusing.
Hi Miki, good catch. I noticed that myself after about the 12th read : ).
>
> The long dash doesn't involve spaces--it's like this.
When I write the story, I do it originally in Word or Word Perfect and the
double m-dash binds together into one n-looking dash unless I added the
spaces, so that's the reason for that.
>
> > "Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is
distorted
> > through the mottled glass door of the surround.
>
> The identity Norman=husband isn't perfectly clear. The word "surround"
> is not clear enough, although if I work at it, I can figure out that you
> mean the translucent glass shower stall wall.
I can't think of any other word for what you call that and I didn't want to
use sliding shower glass door.
>
> > I don't say, because soon she'll be gone. I know my mom will live
another
> > decade, at least. Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how
a
> > good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
>
> The punctuation and elision choice here is ineffective. I would say:
> "...at least, long enough for at least a hundred visits. I don't say
> how a good daughter..."
>
> > our cape. Even though she has lots of money, and offered to pay for the
> > whole, Norman was against it.
>
> The whole what? One additional word, please.
>
> > But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it,
made
> > me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food
service
>
> You can leave out the comma after "Marketing."
Thanks. I appreciate but don't usually comment on the comma and punctuation
things because I find them to be mostly issues of style and personal
preference.
> > If we did build an addition, of course it couldn't have a kitchen; no
stove
> > upon which to leave a teapot bubbling until the water boils away and its
> > ceramic base blackens and cracks, forcing a chunk to split and crack and
>
> You don't need to repeat "and crack."
Yes, I mentioned that in one of my responses to critiques. Thanks.
>
> > fall onto the linoleum, burning a quarter-sized hole and causing volumes
of
> > smoke with a distinctly acrid smell. Fortunately when this occurred--
last
> > Spring--Mom's aging chihauhau barked a neighbor alert before any rooms
>
> You don't need the dashes.
I know, but I like them.
You can just say "when this occurred last
> spring, Mom's..." And I'm unfamiliar with the chihauhau breed. Later
> on you say Chihuaha, so I suspect it's either a typo or an error caused
> by an automatic spellchecker. (I detest them.)
It's a typo, I don't use spellcheck.
>
> > I wring a washcloth, pondering how trickles become streams. If I'd been
> > sharper in my youth, I might have seen that if you aren't careful, the
life
> > you plan might eventually break away. With little notice, it will pull
from
> > your hand and catch in the froth and foam of years. Till one day you
stand,
> > knee-deep in turbulence, and spy your other self climbing from the water
> > onto the banks of a distant shore, looking happy and carefree. You
watch,
> > mouth agape, but can make no sound.
>
> That's lyrical, but also confusing. She seems to be saying that she
> wishes she had salvaged her marriage to John and would have been better
> off for it, but it isn't completely clear.
For me the genesis of this story was how money (concepts of it, values
around it) can affect people, relationships.
>
> > silence like static on an old TV. I don't know why I even think about
these
> > things, still. I'm happy, now. It's for the best.
>
> Great job of conveying that she isn't convinced of this even though she
> insists on it.
Tks.
>
> > "I hope your mother isn't going to push about moving in, again." Norman
> > peers at me with his brows furrowed, his mustache atwitter.
>
> You don't need the comma before "again."
>
> > sold a painting in seven months and didn't want to come to bed, any
more.
>
> Again, no comma after "bed."
>
> > to tell her husband! Afraid to suggest they celebrate, fearing that the
> > image of her reach for the wallet to pay for dinner would hover over his
> > head and insinuate itself into the balloon of his thoughts like some
kind of
> > bad comic.
>
> Funny, but I have a habit of running into guys who live off their wives
> with no hint of a bad conscience about it. There are more shiftless
> gigolos in the world than seems to be the case at first glance.
Most of the men (and women) that I've met who have any bit of self respect
need to be able to feel they are providing, in some way, be it financial or
otherwise, in the relationship. Maybe the key there is "who have any bit of
self respect"...
>
> > they would have drank wine
>
> "...drunk wine..."
you are probably right, there
>
> > Sometimes I think about what it would be like to be someone else.
Living in
> > another country, maybe. Norman is not big on travel. He will go, if
the
> > destination involves gambling. He's happy, spending hours in a casino,
> > soaking in the smoke and tension, entranced in the dance of losing.
What he
> > wins is just enough, always, to keep him hooked.
>
> Someone who is genuinely hooked on gambling ends up broke pretty quick,
> but it's perceptive to notice that gambling addiction grows out of
> materialism and leads to obsession with money.
With respect to your knowledge of the subject, I find there are different
levels of being "hooked". I didn't use the word addiction here, on
purpose -- it may be semantics, but for me, you can be hooked, but keep your
obsession under some degree of control, if only out of fear of spending the
money you need to pay the mortgage or your employees' salaries. The "hooked"
part is that you continually return to it, it's an obsession or compulsion
because it's always going to be _next time_ that you hit, big. Someone who
goes to Vegas four times per year is to me, hooked. (I'm not moralizing; I
personally can't stand casinos, but my husband loves them -- so two weekends
ago for his birthday I took him to the Mohegan Sun so if he had to gamble,
at least he could support Indians : ) .) I agree it can grow out of
materialism and lead to obsession with money but I also know that the
obsession with money can come first, and lead to the gambling addiction.
>
> > If only the fire had worked.
>
> This is jarring because it makes it sound like he set the fire. It
> takes things to a completely different head space and changes Norman
> from a Rousseauan "bourgeois" (a flat-souled fellow of miscroscopic
> spiritual proportions--different from the Marxist bourgeois) into an
> attempted murderer.
I like your "flat-souled fellow" descriptions : )
>
> I would say your first effort in a long time is worthwhile. Thanks for
> the post, and hope my comments are helpful.
>
> Miki
Your comments are very helpful, Miki. Thanks very much for reading.
Andrea
ROBOTIC MONK
I don't know who to feel sorry for more; the woman or her mother.
The woman loves her mother, but can't see that her new husband is a
jerk. She is a career woman who's intelligent, and just happens to be
in marketing--one of the more heartless careers around.
I really enjoyed this well written story, but I can't believe it. You
showed the husband to be a jerk right before his wife's eyes. I would
have believed the story more if Norman was a little sneaky about the way
he really felt. Say one thing, do another, or say things in a way that
would make the reader wonder. This would have made the twist more
surprising. Just my thoughts. Thanks for the good read.
"honey, I know you love your mother, but don't you think you're taking
on enough stress already? Maybe we can visit her more often, but having
her move in may be too soon."
++++++
I have lost my mind in the words of a writer long since dead.
Wind River
nativelaw wrote:
>
> Wow. Quite tough trying not to sacrificing subtance over form, with this
> challenge. I didn't write the story I wanted -- this is sort of a cheat --
> but having failed to finish anything in months, just finishing was fun!
That's the important part of the challenge -- being inspired to write a
complete story. I'm glad it worked for you.
> --------------
>
> Patience
> 958/100/50
>
> In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I have
> little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
>
> "Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is distorted
> through the mottled glass door of the surround.
>
> "I don't see why not."
>
> "I don't see why."
>
> I don't say, because soon she'll be gone. I know my mom will live another
> decade, at least. Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how a
These two sentences seem at odds -- another ten years doesn't seem like
soon. I'll be biting my tongue if it's explained later ... :)
> good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
> sounds nicer than nursing home and costs enough to make loved ones penitent,
> though my mother foots the bill herself) and build her a neat addition to
> our cape. Even though she has lots of money, and offered to pay for the
> whole, Norman was against it. I would have had to stay with her, of course.
> I didn't mind. The one time in life I was willing to sacrifice, willing to
> give up my career for someone I loved, and it was too late. Norman insisted
> that I needed to work; making money was part of who I was.
I'm not liking this Norman guy much. That means you're painting him well.
> But that was why I married Norman. He loved my career, encouraged it, made
> me feel good about all that I earned. Marketing, for a major food service
> industry publication. My specialty is the annual cheese convention. You
> can laugh, but it brings in a fortune for the company.
>
> If we did build an addition, of course it couldn't have a kitchen; no stove
> upon which to leave a teapot bubbling until the water boils away and its
> ceramic base blackens and cracks, forcing a chunk to split and crack and
> fall onto the linoleum, burning a quarter-sized hole and causing volumes of
> smoke with a distinctly acrid smell. Fortunately when this occurred-- last
> Spring--Mom's aging chihauhau barked a neighbor alert before any rooms
> beyond the kitchen were aflame. But I insisted -- that was the end of Mom
> living alone. Norman and I have the Chihuahua, and bring it each week on
> our visits to her so it can piss on the antiseptic linoleum in greeting.
> Norman hates that dog.
>
> I wring a washcloth, pondering how trickles become streams. If I'd been
> sharper in my youth, I might have seen that if you aren't careful, the life
> you plan might eventually break away. With little notice, it will pull from
> your hand and catch in the froth and foam of years. Till one day you stand,
> knee-deep in turbulence, and spy your other self climbing from the water
> onto the banks of a distant shore, looking happy and carefree. You watch,
> mouth agape, but can make no sound.
Some great writing here.
<snipped>
> What had happened to them? In the old days, none of it would have mattered;
> they would have drank wine and made love and laughed at the stupidity of it
> all. At least, they would have had each other.
>
> "Well?" Norman says. He taps his foot.
I like the way she's dreaming about her old life. Tells us a lot.
> Sometimes I think about what it would be like to be someone else. Living in
> another country, maybe. Norman is not big on travel. He will go, if the
> destination involves gambling. He's happy, spending hours in a casino,
> soaking in the smoke and tension, entranced in the dance of losing. What he
> wins is just enough, always, to keep him hooked.
>
> The few times I've seen him laugh, it was in Vegas; he calls his favorite
> city "Lost Wages." I went, once, but it held no charm for me. Norman goes
> once each season; I used to joke that he was being serviced by exotic women.
> Part of me wished it were true, but I know Norman. Women hold no passion
> for him. I suppose that money does.
>
> #
>
> "My daughter comes tomorrow, Estelle. She'll bring my ChiChi
> with her, too. Thank Heavens -- I do love that dog."
>
> "A hero, that dog!"
>
> "True, I guess. And he's my baby."
>
> "So, Gert? What's going on with the addition? Will you be
> leaving us soon?"
>
> "Norman is working on it, still. He's a good man, Norman. I'm
> so glad Amy found him. Not like that first husband of hers, the bum."
>
> "You mean the painter? The house painter?"
>
> "No, a picture painter. An 'artist'." She pronounced it
> ar-Teest. Estelle's curls bobbed as she laughed. Gert nodded, and peered
> out the window.
>
> #
>
> As Amy dressed, Norman considered the addition. He was opposed, but no
> longer, as Amy said, violently. It had potential.
>
> If only the fire had worked.
>
> "We'd better hurry, Norman," Amy called.
>
> Odds were good, Gert might have a heart attack. He smiled.
>
> "Patience," he said. "You must have patience."
I like the way you use "patience" at the beginning and the end. Good tie-in.
Good challenge entry, Andrea. I like the twist at the end. Good
foreshadowing of Norman's personality. We know he's a creep at the
beginning, but find out he's even more of one than we can glean from
Amy's thoughts. Well done.
-Sue
Miki Kocic
nativelaw wrote:
> I can't think of any other word for what you call that and I didn't want to
> use sliding shower glass door.
If that's what you mean, why not?
> Thanks. I appreciate but don't usually comment on the comma and punctuation
> things because I find them to be mostly issues of style and personal
> preference.
Noted. In future, you'll get no punctuation-related comments from me.
> It's a typo, I don't use spellcheck.
Ah, a true pro. My admiration to you.
>>That's lyrical, but also confusing. She seems to be saying that she
>>wishes she had salvaged her marriage to John and would have been better
>>off for it, but it isn't completely clear.
>
> For me the genesis of this story was how money (concepts of it, values
> around it) can affect people, relationships.
Do I gather that there is no definitive judgment of whether she would
have been happier if she could have worked things out with John?
> Most of the men (and women) that I've met who have any bit of self respect
> need to be able to feel they are providing, in some way, be it financial or
> otherwise, in the relationship. Maybe the key there is "who have any bit of
> self respect"...
And I've met more than one man whose source of self-respect is being
able to trick a woman into paying his way in exchange for some
affection. And the woman in question usually isn't desperate, either.
Bugs the heck out of me, because I've been holding down a job
more-or-less steadily since I was 14, and I can't imagine living off
someone else.
> With respect to your knowledge of the subject, I find there are different
> levels of being "hooked". I didn't use the word addiction here, on
> purpose -- it may be semantics, but for me, you can be hooked, but keep your
> obsession under some degree of control, if only out of fear of spending the
> money you need to pay the mortgage or your employees' salaries. The "hooked"
> part is that you continually return to it, it's an obsession or compulsion
> because it's always going to be _next time_ that you hit, big. Someone who
> goes to Vegas four times per year is to me, hooked. (I'm not moralizing; I
> personally can't stand casinos, but my husband loves them -- so two weekends
> ago for his birthday I took him to the Mohegan Sun so if he had to gamble,
> at least he could support Indians : ) .) I agree it can grow out of
> materialism and lead to obsession with money but I also know that the
> obsession with money can come first, and lead to the gambling addiction.
True. In fact, both gambling addiction and the addiction to things such
as cocaine and heroin can grown out of too large a disposable income.
I've known people addicted to cocaine because they had lots of extra
cash and no spiritual centre to prevent them from spending their extra
cash on drugs. My gambling addiction first showed itself when I had a
small stack of extra money and was looking to fill my empty life with
something. Well, my life's a lot emptier now and the money is gone.
>>This is jarring because it makes it sound like he set the fire. It
>>takes things to a completely different head space and changes Norman
>>from a Rousseauan "bourgeois" (a flat-souled fellow of miscroscopic
>>spiritual proportions--different from the Marxist bourgeois) into an
>>attempted murderer.
>
> I like your "flat-souled fellow" descriptions : )
But I'd like to know what you think about my main point. It's one thing
to portray a Rousseauan bourgeois, who as repulsive as he may be is
still within legal and moral limits. It's quite another to portray
someone who tried to kill his mother-in-law. They are two totally
different beasts, and for me the attempted murder completely overshadows
anything you might have to say about him being bourgeois.
Miki
nativelaw
"Miki Kocic" <viathna...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Let5c.7559$E71.6...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
>
> nativelaw wrote:
>
> > I can't think of any other word for what you call that and I didn't want
to
> > use sliding shower glass door.
>
> If that's what you mean, why not?
Dunno. just too wordy.
>
> > Thanks. I appreciate but don't usually comment on the comma and
punctuation
> > things because I find them to be mostly issues of style and personal
> > preference.
>
> Noted. In future, you'll get no punctuation-related comments from me.
no prob, either way.
>
> > It's a typo, I don't use spellcheck.
>
> Ah, a true pro. My admiration to you.
I suspect as a stenographer you do the same; it's better to rely on your
eyes, I think. Also it's kind of like how you grew up without that kind of
thing -- spell check didn't exist. Like calculators. Today kids in the
supermarkets are lost when they need to make change, for ex. They get
calculators in class to do homework with. At the local supermarket once my
bill came to say $89.51 and I gave the gal $100 and she plugged it in and it
said that she had to give me back $10.49 but then I said, oh, wait! I have a
penny; and as I held that shiny coin between thumb and pointer she looked at
me with panic creeping into her face, her mouth a thin line but her eyes
starting to glaze over and I half expected to see them roll backwards into
her head as she tried to figure out what she was going to do now... I'm
telling her, see, you just give me back $10.50, see? and she is staring at
me with this dull blank look, ready to flee, ready to quit her job, or at
the very least, call a manager for a "void"... finally she felt embarrassed
at the line that was forming, so she just took my word for it so as not to
hold up the line any further... I can tell she was thinking to herself,
shit! What if my register doesn't prove tonight? I'm gonna lose this
f---ing job, which I hate anyway, but at least it's a f---ing job and....
Oh. I'm sorry. Am I going on, here?
Ahem.
Sorry <g>.
What was the question? <g>
>
> >>That's lyrical, but also confusing. She seems to be saying that she
> >>wishes she had salvaged her marriage to John and would have been better
> >>off for it, but it isn't completely clear.
You're right.
If it ever becomes completely clear for her, she'll probably write another
story <g>.
> >
> > For me the genesis of this story was how money (concepts of it, values
> > around it) can affect people, relationships.
>
> Do I gather that there is no definitive judgment of whether she would
> have been happier if she could have worked things out with John?
I think that's left open.
>
> > Most of the men (and women) that I've met who have any bit of self
respect
> > need to be able to feel they are providing, in some way, be it financial
or
> > otherwise, in the relationship. Maybe the key there is "who have any
bit of
> > self respect"...
>
> And I've met more than one man whose source of self-respect is being
> able to trick a woman into paying his way in exchange for some
> affection. And the woman in question usually isn't desperate, either.
> Bugs the heck out of me, because I've been holding down a job
> more-or-less steadily since I was 14, and I can't imagine living off
> someone else.
I do hear you, there.
At least writing is more of a productive addiction <g>.
>
> >>This is jarring because it makes it sound like he set the fire. It
> >>takes things to a completely different head space and changes Norman
> >>from a Rousseauan "bourgeois" (a flat-souled fellow of miscroscopic
> >>spiritual proportions--different from the Marxist bourgeois) into an
> >>attempted murderer.
> >
> > I like your "flat-souled fellow" descriptions : )
>
> But I'd like to know what you think about my main point. It's one thing
> to portray a Rousseauan bourgeois, who as repulsive as he may be is
> still within legal and moral limits. It's quite another to portray
> someone who tried to kill his mother-in-law. They are two totally
> different beasts, and for me the attempted murder completely overshadows
> anything you might have to say about him being bourgeois.
That's a fair question.
I started off without any intention of him being a murderer. Then I got
this feeling that I wanted him to be a murderer. Black and white; evil, you
know? I wanted a villain. But then I couldn't decide. I thought, there's
more to the story, really, if he _isn't_ a killer. So in the end, I wanted
it to be ambiguous. That's why, I said that the story was a bit of a cheat.
I beat myself up for it because I thought i was being cheesy and two
dimensional to suggest this poor guy was actually a killer-- I'm not real
big on twist endings, can you tell? And this one because of the short form,
didn't have a lot of room to build it and I thought it didn't work. Some
have said it did for them, though him being a killer came out of left field
they didn't mind and didn't seem to feel cheated. So either it worked that
way or people were being nice. All of which makes me think maybe I don't
know what works, anyway. But that's not a new sensation : ).
Thanks again, for your careful read, and feedback, Miki.
Andrea
nativelaw
Hi Jesse,
"ROBOTIC MONK" <Jesse...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:22251-405...@storefull-3338.bay.webtv.net...
>
> I don't know who to feel sorry for more; the woman or her mother.
True!
>
> The woman loves her mother, but can't see that her new husband is a
> jerk. She is a career woman who's intelligent, and just happens to be
> in marketing--one of the more heartless careers around.
My sister does real well in marketing, which is funny because she's got
tremendous heart. I don't think her heart's in the job, at all, though
which is maybe why she is able to succeed <g>. She was a psych and
sociology major in college so the dynamics of it are still interesting to a
30 something single professional woman. Just about any job can be at that
age, right? And the money's real good.
>
> I really enjoyed this well written story, but I can't believe it. You
> showed the husband to be a jerk right before his wife's eyes. I would
> have believed the story more if Norman was a little sneaky about the way
> he really felt. Say one thing, do another, or say things in a way that
> would make the reader wonder. This would have made the twist more
> surprising. Just my thoughts. Thanks for the good read.
Thanks, Jesse. I was just talking about that credibility issue and I'm glad
to hear your view, that you didn't believe it. I thought maybe it was too
much, myself. Though I _liked_ the thought.
>
> "honey, I know you love your mother, but don't you think you're taking
> on enough stress already? Maybe we can visit her more often, but having
> her move in may be too soon."
Thanks, Jesse.
Andrea
nativelaw
--
---
"Wind River" <wind...@voyager.net> wrote in message
news:4055BA6E...@voyager.net...
> Hi Andrea!
Hi Sue!!
>
> nativelaw wrote:
> >
> > Wow. Quite tough trying not to sacrificing subtance over form, with
this
> > challenge. I didn't write the story I wanted -- this is sort of a
cheat --
> > but having failed to finish anything in months, just finishing was fun!
>
> That's the important part of the challenge -- being inspired to write a
> complete story. I'm glad it worked for you.
Yes! real happy to have gotten something done. I think Wildepad's head is
spinning at all these entries in what looked like a very difficult form.
>
> > --------------
> >
> > Patience
> > 958/100/50
> >
> > In the shower the other morning, I think how my ex lacked patience. I
have
> > little enough myself, at times -- or so my husband says.
> >
> > "Are we going to see your mother today?" Norman asks. His pout is
distorted
> > through the mottled glass door of the surround.
> >
> > "I don't see why not."
> >
> > "I don't see why."
> >
> > I don't say, because soon she'll be gone. I know my mom will live
another
> > decade, at least. Long enough to say for at least a hundred visits, how
a
>
> These two sentences seem at odds -- another ten years doesn't seem like
> soon. I'll be biting my tongue if it's explained later ... :)
You're right -- what I meant is, she _can't_ say, because soon she'll be
gone (as her excuse), because she knows better.
>
> > good daughter would spring her from the Assisted Living Facility (which
> > sounds nicer than nursing home and costs enough to make loved ones
penitent,
> > though my mother foots the bill herself) and build her a neat addition
to
> > our cape. Even though she has lots of money, and offered to pay for the
> > whole, Norman was against it. I would have had to stay with her, of
course.
> > I didn't mind. The one time in life I was willing to sacrifice, willing
to
> > give up my career for someone I loved, and it was too late. Norman
insisted
> > that I needed to work; making money was part of who I was.
>
> I'm not liking this Norman guy much. That means you're painting him well.
Thanks <g>.
You're sweet, Sue.
>
> <snipped>
> > What had happened to them? In the old days, none of it would have
mattered;
> > they would have drank wine and made love and laughed at the stupidity of
it
> > all. At least, they would have had each other.
> >
> > "Well?" Norman says. He taps his foot.
>
> I like the way she's dreaming about her old life. Tells us a lot.
Thanks.
Thanks! you caught that.
>
> Good challenge entry, Andrea. I like the twist at the end. Good
> foreshadowing of Norman's personality. We know he's a creep at the
> beginning, but find out he's even more of one than we can glean from
> Amy's thoughts. Well done.
>
> -Sue
Thanks, Sue. Means a lot.
Andrea
Alaric McDermott
they?
This is an excellent story, Andrea, carrying almost too much weight
for its length. There's domestic conflict here, a riveting exposure of
barely acknowledged but fundamental loss, and a vicious little twist
to top it off. Just love it.
"nativelaw" <REMO...@OUTnativelaw.com> wrote in message news:<kp76c.247$QJ6...@news01.roc.ny>...