Invasion America!
nyehnyehnyeh@feedme
> While people may debate on the animation style, I thought the story was
> rather intelligently written (so far). >
>
Story? Even DISNEY has tons of stuff to learn from Studio Ghibli and
Hayao Miyazaki, makers of
1. Nausicaa of Valley of the Winds. (Warriors of the Winds)
2. Laputa.
3. Graveyard of the Fireflies.
4. Totoro.
5. Kiki Delivery's Service.
And where Science fiction is concerned, Nothing you guys have
will even come close to Masamune Shirow's 'Ghost In The Shell'
Stuff from Japan from the Late 80's and early 90's are so much
more advance than what's in America, storywise, art-qualitywise
and more.
You guys have a loooooooonnnnnnggggggg way to go before coming out
with anything impressive to overtake Japanese anime. I dread to
think the quality of stuff that comes from Japan nowadays. They
can easily beat any animation from America in the mainstream
market.
Ever watched Neon Genesis Evangelion??
Or even try doing something like Macross Plus ?! :)
For starters, try improving your Mechanical and Robotics designs. ;)
'nuff said.
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Atomic Skull
>Story? Even DISNEY has tons of stuff to learn from Studio Ghibli and
>Hayao Miyazaki, makers of
>
>
I wouldn't go THAT far, give them time to catch up...
>Ever watched Neon Genesis Evangelion??
ugh.. No offense, but I find that series incredibly dull.. giant robots
with extension cords, THAT's brilliant.
>Or even try doing something like Macross Plus ?! :)
Loved that one...
You forgot to mention Tenchi Muyo..
--
-=Atomic Skull=-
See my 3-D anime character page, www.ns.net/~Argus-1
Samuel Crider
In comp.graphics.apps.lightwave Atomic Skull <Bl...@Blanknet.com> wrote:
> ugh.. No offense, but I find that series incredibly dull.. giant robots
> with extension cords, THAT's brilliant.
:)
One of the fun things about Evangelion is that when you get into the second
half of the series you start to find out that everything you thought you
understood in the first half -- extension cords included -- is in
fact completely wrong....
I'm wondering when the first anime series using Lightwave is going to be made.
Japanese *fans* seem to be going for LW in a big way at least.
Mononoke Hime used Softimage I know -- bit I don't know what else is
being widely used over there.
--
Samuel Lewis Crider
allo...@mcs.net
dajones
Well, I least the robot's didn't have the cutisy small animal
personalities you find in anime. I get so tried so tired of the
supposedly cute little side kick kids or animals that never do what they
are supposed to do.. for all their appeal in a show you just want to
smack 'em.
Anime artists by the way learn quite a bit from Disney's older films.
throb (Robert Nederhorst)
On 13 Jun 1998 23:32:22 -0500, allo...@MCS.COM (Samuel Crider) wrote:
>I'm wondering when the first anime series using Lightwave is going to be made.
>Japanese *fans* seem to be going for LW in a big way at least.
check out http://www.codeworks.com
Avalon is a project that is all lw cel and looking pretty darned cool.
The guys there are a pretty rockin crew!
Robert Nederhorst
DIGIT/\L DOM/\IN
nyehny...@my-dejanews.com
In article <35909149....@news.earthlink.net>,
noema...@useofspam.com (throb (Robert Nederhorst)) wrote:
>
> check out http://www.codeworks.com
> Avalon is a project that is all lw cel and looking pretty darned cool.
> The guys there are a pretty rockin crew!
>
> Robert Nederhorst
> DIGIT/\L DOM/\IN
>
Nice, now if only you can do something about that 30 mb download.
It's too freaking huge. Use Mpeg format instead. Better compression
and quality.
Get the free mpeg encoder at http://www.mpeg.org/MSSG/
Then hopefully it's small enough to download.
PS: Those characters looks very much like those from Evangelion. ;P
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Paul Oberlander
nyehnyehnyeh@feedME wrote:
> > While people may debate on the animation style, I thought the story was
> > rather intelligently written (so far). >
> >
>
> Story? Even DISNEY has tons of stuff to learn from Studio Ghibli and
> Hayao Miyazaki, makers of
>
> 1. Nausicaa of Valley of the Winds. (Warriors of the Winds)
> 2. Laputa.
> 3. Graveyard of the Fireflies.
> 4. Totoro.
> 5. Kiki Delivery's Service.
>
> And where Science fiction is concerned, Nothing you guys have
> will even come close to Masamune Shirow's 'Ghost In The Shell'
>
> Stuff from Japan from the Late 80's and early 90's are so much
> more advance than what's in America, storywise, art-qualitywise
> and more.
>
> You guys have a loooooooonnnnnnggggggg way to go before coming out
> with anything impressive to overtake Japanese anime. I dread to
> think the quality of stuff that comes from Japan nowadays. They
> can easily beat any animation from America in the mainstream
> market.
>
> Ever watched Neon Genesis Evangelion??
>
> Or even try doing something like Macross Plus ?! :)
>
> For starters, try improving your Mechanical and Robotics designs. ;)
>
> 'nuff said.
I agree, you've said enough, now go away.....
;->
--
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
mailto:obr...@earthlink.net
If you go flying back through time, and you see somebody else flying forward
into the future, it's probably best to avoid eye contact.
Paul Oberlander
nyehnyehnyeh@feedME wrote:
> > While people may debate on the animation style, I thought the story was
> > rather intelligently written (so far). >
> >
>
> Story? Even DISNEY has tons of stuff to learn from Studio Ghibli and
> Hayao Miyazaki, makers of
Only if they want to make LESS money...
Paul
Samuel Crider
In comp.graphics.apps.lightwave throb (Robert Nederhorst) <noema...@useofspam.com> wrote:
> check out http://www.codeworks.com
> Avalon is a project that is all lw cel and looking pretty darned cool.
> The guys there are a pretty rockin crew!
Yeah, the Avalon Project is cool -- but I'm wondering more about when there
will be an regular, weekly anime series that uses LW, as Invasion America
does.
Paul Oberlander
Atomic Skull wrote:
> >
> >nyehnyehnyeh@feedME wrote:
> >
> >> > While people may debate on the animation style, I thought the story was
> >> > rather intelligently written (so far). >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Story? Even DISNEY has tons of stuff to learn from Studio Ghibli and
> >> Hayao Miyazaki, makers of
> >
> >Only if they want to make LESS money...
> >
> >Paul
> >
>
> McDonalds makes lots of money, but that only means they know how to mass
> market their crappy food.
>
> Quantity doesn't equal quality..
You are saying Disney Animation is crappy? Yeah, right.
>
>
> See my 3-D anime character page, www.ns.net/~Argus-1
--
Paul Oberlander
Atomic Skull wrote:
> >I agree, you've said enough, now go away.....
> >
>
> If you don't like the thread, don't read it...
It's not the thread, it's the opinion.....
Paul Oberlander
Atomic Skull wrote:
> >
>
> No.. But, I dislike them for the following reasons..
>
> A. Their plots are fairly generic "happy ending" fairy tale shlock..
>
> B. Everything they do is a musical. (this _particularly_ disgusts me)
>
> C. Their stuff is all kiddie fare, no blood, no sex, no nudity, no
> disembowlments...
Cartoons are mostly for kids (not all, but mostly)
I notice you didn't criticise them for their animation ability. Nobody, and I mean
nobody does animation as good as Disney. The original post said Disney could learn
a lot from Anime. Personally, I don't think so. Akira and Ghost in the Shell are
good animation, but if Disney chose to do sex, blood and guts, it would be better.
In fact, go see Mulan and point to any scene in any anime that compares to the snow
battle scene, or for that matter, the ballroom scene in Beaty and the Beast or the
animal stampede in Lion King.....
Animation at it's best. Anime is stiff and lifeless by comparison.
Don't get me wrong, I like anime, but to make the assertion that Disney has a lot
to learn from even Masamune is silliness.
Paul
Atomic Skull
>
>nyehnyehnyeh@feedME wrote:
>
>> > While people may debate on the animation style, I thought the story was
>> > rather intelligently written (so far). >
>> >
>>
>> Story? Even DISNEY has tons of stuff to learn from Studio Ghibli and
>> Hayao Miyazaki, makers of
>
>Only if they want to make LESS money...
>
>Paul
>
McDonalds makes lots of money, but that only means they know how to mass
market their crappy food.
Quantity doesn't equal quality..
--
-=Atomic Skull=-
Atomic Skull
>I agree, you've said enough, now go away.....
>
If you don't like the thread, don't read it...
Atomic Skull
In article <6m1vio$vu$1...@Mars.mcs.net>, allo...@MCS.COM says...
Personally, I want to see less use of computers in traditional cel
animation, not more.. I love CG animation, but it should remain on it's
"side of the fence" so to speak..
Atomic Skull
> >
>> >> > While people may debate on the animation style, I thought the story was
>> >> > rather intelligently written (so far). >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Story? Even DISNEY has tons of stuff to learn from Studio Ghibli and
>> >> Hayao Miyazaki, makers of
>> >
>> >Only if they want to make LESS money...
>> >
>> >Paul
>> >
>>
>> McDonalds makes lots of money, but that only means they know how to mass
>> market their crappy food.
>>
>> Quantity doesn't equal quality..
>
>
>>
>>
>
No.. But, I dislike them for the following reasons..
A. Their plots are fairly generic "happy ending" fairy tale shlock..
B. Everything they do is a musical. (this _particularly_ disgusts me)
C. Their stuff is all kiddie fare, no blood, no sex, no nudity, no
disembowlments...
Jalon Anderson
Wow! This got ugly quick.
Depends on what you mean by Disney being "crappy". Disney animation is not
sophisticated. Their animation is all what I would consider kiddie fare. So they
do that well. For an adult you need anime.
The comment about making less money is unfortuately true. Most people won't pay to
think. Or view reality. They pay to see safe stories that make them feel warm and
fuzzy.
Paul Oberlander wrote:
> Atomic Skull wrote:
>
> > >
> > >nyehnyehnyeh@feedME wrote:
> > >
> > >> > While people may debate on the animation style, I thought the story was
> > >> > rather intelligently written (so far). >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> Story? Even DISNEY has tons of stuff to learn from Studio Ghibli and
> > >> Hayao Miyazaki, makers of
> > >
> > >Only if they want to make LESS money...
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> >
> > McDonalds makes lots of money, but that only means they know how to mass
> > market their crappy food.
> >
> > Quantity doesn't equal quality..
>
> You are saying Disney Animation is crappy? Yeah, right.
>
> >
> >
> > See my 3-D anime character page, www.ns.net/~Argus-1
>
Robert Owens
>On 13 Jun 1998 23:32:22 -0500, allo...@MCS.COM (Samuel Crider) wrote:
>
>
>>I'm wondering when the first anime series using Lightwave is going to be made.
>>Japanese *fans* seem to be going for LW in a big way at least.
>
>check out http://www.codeworks.com
>Avalon is a project that is all lw cel and looking pretty darned cool.
>The guys there are a pretty rockin crew!
>
>Robert Nederhorst
>DIGIT/\L DOM/\IN
I downloaded their Avalon "trailer" promo a while back. The
file was huge, perhaps around 35 megs or so if I recall, but it was
one of the BEST downloads I've ever done! Great stuff!
Robert Owens
dajones
> No.. But, I dislike them for the following reasons..
>
> A. Their plots are fairly generic "happy ending" fairy tale shlock..
>
> B. Everything they do is a musical. (this _particularly_ disgusts me)
>
> C. Their stuff is all kiddie fare, no blood, no sex, no nudity, no
disembowlments...
Funny.. these are some of the reasons I liked Disney..
Paul Oberlander
Jalon Anderson wrote:
> Wow! This got ugly quick.
>
> Depends on what you mean by Disney being "crappy". Disney animation is not
> sophisticated. Their animation is all what I would consider kiddie fare. So they
> do that well. For an adult you need anime.
Most adults do not like anime. You could probably say most adults who do 3D like
anime, but most adults as whole do not. In fact, I would guess most adults would
rather see "Beauty and the Beast" or "Lion King" than "Ghost in the Shell."
> The comment about making less money is unfortuately true. Most people won't pay to
> think. Or view reality. They pay to see safe stories that make them feel warm and
> fuzzy.
It is not unfortunate that most people don't want to see violent, sexually charged
material. In fact I would say it is very fortunate that people are uncomfortable with
this. Most of life is NOT car chases, mech battles and sexual encounters.Actually,
most people won't pay to be bombarded with sex and violence in cartoon format. It's
the old Joe Camel thing. No matter what you say, cartoons are for kids. Like it or
not, a large number of South Park and Simpsons viewers are kids watching contrary to
their parents wishes. Most of the people I know who are into anime are 12 to 14 year
old kids who get their moms to buy or rent it because they think it's just a cartoon.
I am not blaming the creators, just making a point.
And to say that Anime is "reality" is ridiculous. "Supercops" who look like 16 year
old models and can beat a 260 pound man up, hit everything they shoot at, handle
everything from nunchukas to C-5 and fly a helicopter to boot are as fantastic as
talking animals........
Once again, I like anime, I just don't think it can hold a technical candle to the
stuff that Disney is doing.
Paul
>
>
> Paul Oberlander wrote:
>
> > Atomic Skull wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > >nyehnyehnyeh@feedME wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> > While people may debate on the animation style, I thought the story was
> > > >> > rather intelligently written (so far). >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Story? Even DISNEY has tons of stuff to learn from Studio Ghibli and
> > > >> Hayao Miyazaki, makers of
> > > >
> > > >Only if they want to make LESS money...
> > > >
> > > >Paul
> > > >
> > >
> > > McDonalds makes lots of money, but that only means they know how to mass
> > > market their crappy food.
> > >
> > > Quantity doesn't equal quality..
> >
> > You are saying Disney Animation is crappy? Yeah, right.
--
nyehnyehnyeh@feedme
Paul Oberlander wrote:
>
> Most adults do not like anime. You could probably say most adults who do 3D l
ike
> anime, but most adults as whole do not. In fact, I would guess most adults wo
uld
> rather see "Beauty and the Beast" or "Lion King" than "Ghost in the Shell."
Speak for yourself. Simple Minded Disney cartoons for Simple Minded people.
Betcha you don't even understand what Ghost in the Shell is all about.
Ghost in the Shell brings very deep messages about life in the possible
future and the how society could turn out. Cosmetics are not always the
main attraction of Japanese Anime. This is one animation no one will
complain about low frame rate. It's CGI influenced too.
>
> It is not unfortunate that most people don't want to see violent, sexually cha
rged
> material. In fact I would say it is very fortunate that people are uncomforta
ble with
> this. Most of life is NOT car chases, mech battles and sexual encounters.Actu
ally,
Like I said. You're Simple minded. Anime brings messages that reflects
happenings in life in a real way. Mechs represents war machines, they don't
represent anything real. It is the MESSAGE and concept in there.
But then again, Simple Minded people can't comprehend artistic logics
and messages. Our world is not far from what's in certain Animes.
Want the best Illustration, get Gundam 0080. It is a terrific anime
and it's not all about Mechs. Only simple minded people can't understand
these. There're others. I don't even need to get you the latest.
Get Graveyard of the Fireflies. Studio Ghibli works are so perfect
and rivals that of Disney even Disney begs to distribute their work
for the 2nd time in US again, provided it is not censored or butchered.
> most people won't pay to be bombarded with sex and violence in cartoon format.
It's
> the old Joe Camel thing. No matter what you say, cartoons are for kids. Like
it or
The world is not America. In Japan, Anime is a Culture, and a BIG business.
Anime and manga artists makes more than you people ever do in a year.
Rumiko Takahashi is a multi-millionaire manga artist and she's only one
of the many many out there. Akemi Takada, Haruhiko Mikimoto, Hayao Miyazaki,
Mamoru Nagano, Masamune Shirow, and many many many more.
Robot Mechanical Designs is an ASSET in Japan.
If you can do elegant mechanical designs you will earn a cult status
like the guy who did the designs for Macross and Gundam.
These people achieve CULT status in Japan and all over Asia.
They're so good it that even Americans had to steal and plagiarize
their designs from HEAD to TOE into this shit crap called BattleTech.
Anyone remember that lame-arsed copy-cat called Transformers?
Beast wars is a joke. Totally wrong mechanical hydraulics, the
transformation is a total joke, they don't conform to mechanical
hydraulic rules. More like Morphing than transforming.
All robotic crap I see coming from US of A are simple geometry
shapes making up some flat shaped robot. These crap exists
even in the most touted games of all times, MechWarrior, a totally
100 percent plagiarized work and half-assed at that.
So FLAT and UNELEGANT. Even AVALON displays these mechanical flaws !
Get it in your heads Americans! THIS WORLD IS NOT USA.
Supremacy attitude makes a person like an ostrich with the heads stuck
in the sand.
> not, a large number of South Park and Simpsons viewers are kids watching contr
ary to
> their parents wishes. Most of the people I know who are into anime are 12 to
14 year
> old kids who get their moms to buy or rent it because they think it's just a c
artoon.
> I am not blaming the creators, just making a point.
You should get out more often. Anime is making an impact in US and if US
cartoon companies don't buck up, they will get trampled the way Japanese
cars trampled the auto industry in US.
I've experienced Anime since the 80s and if you people only just started,
I'll say you've been left far far far behind on the kind of competition
Japanese animators pose to the almost non-existent American cartoon
industry. There're thousands of good anime out there, just dub/sub a
few, import them into America and they'll kill your local animation
industry overnight.
>
> And to say that Anime is "reality" is ridiculous. "Supercops" who look like 1
6 year
> old models and can beat a 260 pound man up, hit everything they shoot at, hand
le
> everything from nunchukas to C-5 and fly a helicopter to boot are as fantastic
as
> talking animals........
Simple minded people can only comprehend simple minded messages.
There are good animes and there're bad ones. The good ones
sends meaningful messages about the negatives of war, drugs and others
in a very creative way. It is the message, not always the cosmetics.
Can't you go in deeper? Do you ever THINK after watching anything?
I guess not, you're simple-minded. You can't think on your own,
your brain is probably too spoon fed by the media and everything
is either Black or White, nothing in-between. Nothing opens for
subjective debates for you. It's either Right or Wrong for simple
minded people like you.
>
> Once again, I like anime, I just don't think it can hold a technical candle to
the
> stuff that Disney is doing.
Technically yes, Disney is advance, But that's only in CGI and
marketing.
When it comes to TRUE skills, quality for 2D cel animation and storylines,
character designs and others, Disney lags way behind ANIME in ages.
Disney was good, in the old days before CGI comes to play.
Snow white, cinderella, Those were the times when Disney displayed
their highest traditional skills, even that is only on the outside.
Their animation still carries repetitive fairy tale shit.
It is only recently that Disney started to migrate from kiddy shit
to more adult and real world oriented animations, but unfortunately
other studios that wanted to unseat Disney are going at it using the
old ways of Disney.
'The magic sword' is an example of trying to copy Disney.
'Anastasia' too.
American animation has no variety. Japanese animation has MORE
to offer, not all the lame-old-crap fairy tale and tom and jerry
shit.
Anime carries titles and subjects of all forms, Love,romance,
science fiction, role-play fantasy, facts of life (Maison Ikkoku)
and more.
I highly recommend Rumiko Takahashi's Maison Ikkoku, a 96 episode
long anime that's the most worthy and accurate animation about
life in Japan. It's a romantic comedy no Anime fans should ever
miss. It's an 80s anime and NOTHING, I say NOTHING you guys have
can match THAT in comedy and romance category.
Heh, when the Japanese goes full CGi, that'll be something for Disney
to really worry about.
You should see the Opening CGI sequence for Mobile Police Patlabor.
(Credit of Akemi Takada)
They've been experimenting with CGI since the 80s.
And Music is a serious business in ANime too.
Sharon Apple, FireBombers ROX!!!!!!!!!! These Seiyuus are equally
popular as the anime artists that draws the manga.
It is an INDUSTRY there.
Voice actresses in Anime are popular and also gains Cult status.
Wanna be Super Pop star overnight? Be a Seiyuu and Sing for Anime
and do the voice.
(Minmei) Mari Iijima ROX! So does Hiroko Kasahara (Ishtar)
Anime is MUCH more cinematic and dramatic compared to lame fairy
tale live happily ever after shit that spews from Disney and the
rest of the animation studios that tries to copy it.
And the girls in anime are sexier too. Disney girls look frigid.
Keep up the good work Atomic. ;)
Robert Owens
>On 13 Jun 1998 23:32:22 -0500, allo...@MCS.COM (Samuel Crider) wrote:
>
>
>>I'm wondering when the first anime series using Lightwave is going to be made.
>>Japanese *fans* seem to be going for LW in a big way at least.
>
>check out http://www.codeworks.com
>Avalon is a project that is all lw cel and looking pretty darned cool.
>The guys there are a pretty rockin crew!
>
>Robert Nederhorst
>DIGIT/\L DOM/\IN
By the way, the URL given here (www.codeworks.com)
took me to something unrelated to the "Avalon" project. The correct
URL is:
http://www.humancodeworks.com/
For those who are interested in checking out the "Mission to Avalon"
project, this URL will take you directly to the related page:
http://throb.simplenet.com/serg/html/avalon.html
Check it out. If you're a fan of CGI, the long
download is worth it!
Robert Owens
Robert Owens
>On 13 Jun 1998 23:32:22 -0500, allo...@MCS.COM (Samuel Crider) wrote:
>
>
>>I'm wondering when the first anime series using Lightwave is going to be made.
>>Japanese *fans* seem to be going for LW in a big way at least.
>
>check out http://www.codeworks.com
>Avalon is a project that is all lw cel and looking pretty darned cool.
>The guys there are a pretty rockin crew!
>
>Robert Nederhorst
>DIGIT/\L DOM/\IN
By the way, no offense intended, but the URL given
Samuel Crider
In comp.graphics.apps.lightwave Paul Oberlander <obr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Most of life is NOT car chases, mech battles and sexual encounters.,
Neither is most anime. Be quite wary of judging anime by the titles that
get wide distribution here in the USA.
Which is not to deny the fact that, yes, most anime is for young people --
kiddies to college age. There's often some confusion on this score because
in Japan *comics* are targeted to almost all age levels.
"Most" anime are cute, wacky comedies -- as Pokeman will demonstrate when it
arrives in the USA this year.
There are some anime shows and movies aimed at older viewers. Evangelion being
a good example. That's the main difference in audience: there's all but
*nothing* like that here in the West. Which is why Invasion America is
such an interesting experiment (though it's intended audience is pretty
clear: look at the gender and age of the main character).
It will be very interesting indeed to see what rating Mononoke Hime gets
when Disney releases it here. Surely at least a PG-13, perhaps even an R.
That's really going to confuse the public perception of what the audience
for animation is supposed to be.
Samuel Crider
In comp.graphics.apps.lightwave Jalon Anderson <ja...@mail.jps.net> wrote:
> Wow! This got ugly quick.
Not unlike a "Lightwave Vs Program X" thread, eh?
Samuel Crider
In comp.graphics.apps.lightwave Atomic Skull <Bl...@Blanknet.com> wrote:
> Personally, I want to see less use of computers in traditional cel
> animation, not more.. I love CG animation, but it should remain on it's
> "side of the fence" so to speak..
Do you really think that fence still exists to any real extent? With
directors such as Miyazaki making ever increasing use of CG?
Samuel Crider
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Paul Oberlander
Jalon Anderson wrote:
> Wow! This got ugly quick.
>
> Depends on what you mean by Disney being "crappy". Disney animation is not
> sophisticated. Their animation is all what I would consider kiddie fare. So they
> do that well. For an adult you need anime.
Most adults do not like anime. You could probably say most adults who do 3D like
anime, but most adults as whole do not. In fact, I would guess most adults would
rather see "Beauty and the Beast" or "Lion King" than "Ghost in the Shell."
> The comment about making less money is unfortuately true. Most people won't pay to
> think. Or view reality. They pay to see safe stories that make them feel warm and
> fuzzy.
It is not unfortunate that most people don't want to see violent, sexually charged
material. In fact I would say it is very fortunate that people are uncomfortable with
this. Most of life is NOT car chases, mech battles and sexual encounters.Actually,
most people won't pay to be bombarded with sex and violence in cartoon format. It's
the old Joe Camel thing. No matter what you say, cartoons are for kids. Like it or
not, a large number of South Park and Simpsons viewers are kids watching contrary to
their parents wishes. Most of the people I know who are into anime are 12 to 14 year
old kids who get their moms to buy or rent it because they think it's just a cartoon.
I am not blaming the creators, just making a point.
And to say that Anime is "reality" is ridiculous. "Supercops" who look like 16 year
old models and can beat a 260 pound man up, hit everything they shoot at, handle
everything from nunchukas to C-5 and fly a helicopter to boot are as fantastic as
talking animals........
Once again, I like anime, I just don't think it can hold a technical candle to the
stuff that Disney is doing.
Paul
>
>
> Paul Oberlander wrote:
>
> > Atomic Skull wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > >nyehnyehnyeh@feedME wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> > While people may debate on the animation style, I thought the story was
> > > >> > rather intelligently written (so far). >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Story? Even DISNEY has tons of stuff to learn from Studio Ghibli and
> > > >> Hayao Miyazaki, makers of
> > > >
> > > >Only if they want to make LESS money...
> > > >
> > > >Paul
> > > >
> > >
> > > McDonalds makes lots of money, but that only means they know how to mass
> > > market their crappy food.
> > >
> > > Quantity doesn't equal quality..
> >
> > You are saying Disney Animation is crappy? Yeah, right.
--
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If you go flying back through time, and you see somebody else flying forward
into the future, it's probably best to avoid eye contact.
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nyehnyehnyeh@feedme
Paul Oberlander wrote:
>
> Most adults do not like anime. You could probably say most adults who do 3D l
ike
> anime, but most adults as whole do not. In fact, I would guess most adults wo
uld
> rather see "Beauty and the Beast" or "Lion King" than "Ghost in the Shell."
Speak for yourself. Simple Minded Disney cartoons for Simple Minded people.
Betcha you don't even understand what Ghost in the Shell is all about.
Ghost in the Shell brings very deep messages about life in the possible
future and the how society could turn out. Cosmetics are not always the
main attraction of Japanese Anime. This is one animation no one will
complain about low frame rate. It's CGI influenced too.
>
> It is not unfortunate that most people don't want to see violent, sexually cha
rged
> material. In fact I would say it is very fortunate that people are uncomforta
ble with
> this. Most of life is NOT car chases, mech battles and sexual encounters.Actu
ally,
Like I said. You're Simple minded. Anime brings messages that reflects
happenings in life in a real way. Mechs represents war machines, they don't
represent anything real. It is the MESSAGE and concept in there.
But then again, Simple Minded people can't comprehend artistic logics
and messages. Our world is not far from what's in certain Animes.
Want the best Illustration, get Gundam 0080. It is a terrific anime
and it's not all about Mechs. Only simple minded people can't understand
these. There're others. I don't even need to get you the latest.
Get Graveyard of the Fireflies. Studio Ghibli works are so perfect
and rivals that of Disney even Disney begs to distribute their work
for the 2nd time in US again, provided it is not censored or butchered.
> most people won't pay to be bombarded with sex and violence in cartoon format.
It's
> the old Joe Camel thing. No matter what you say, cartoons are for kids. Like
it or
The world is not America. In Japan, Anime is a Culture, and a BIG business.
Anime and manga artists makes more than you people ever do in a year.
Rumiko Takahashi is a multi-millionaire manga artist and she's only one
of the many many out there. Akemi Takada, Haruhiko Mikimoto, Hayao Miyazaki,
Mamoru Nagano, Masamune Shirow, and many many many more.
Robot Mechanical Designs is an ASSET in Japan.
If you can do elegant mechanical designs you will earn a cult status
like the guy who did the designs for Macross and Gundam.
These people achieve CULT status in Japan and all over Asia.
They're so good it that even Americans had to steal and plagiarize
their designs from HEAD to TOE into this shit crap called BattleTech.
Anyone remember that lame-arsed copy-cat called Transformers?
Beast wars is a joke. Totally wrong mechanical hydraulics, the
transformation is a total joke, they don't conform to mechanical
hydraulic rules. More like Morphing than transforming.
All robotic crap I see coming from US of A are simple geometry
shapes making up some flat shaped robot. These crap exists
even in the most touted games of all times, MechWarrior, a totally
100 percent plagiarized work and half-assed at that.
So FLAT and UNELEGANT. Even AVALON displays these mechanical flaws !
Get it in your heads Americans! THIS WORLD IS NOT USA.
Supremacy attitude makes a person like an ostrich with the heads stuck
in the sand.
> not, a large number of South Park and Simpsons viewers are kids watching contr
ary to
> their parents wishes. Most of the people I know who are into anime are 12 to
14 year
> old kids who get their moms to buy or rent it because they think it's just a c
artoon.
> I am not blaming the creators, just making a point.
You should get out more often. Anime is making an impact in US and if US
cartoon companies don't buck up, they will get trampled the way Japanese
cars trampled the auto industry in US.
I've experienced Anime since the 80s and if you people only just started,
I'll say you've been left far far far behind on the kind of competition
Japanese animators pose to the almost non-existent American cartoon
industry. There're thousands of good anime out there, just dub/sub a
few, import them into America and they'll kill your local animation
industry overnight.
>
> And to say that Anime is "reality" is ridiculous. "Supercops" who look like 1
6 year
> old models and can beat a 260 pound man up, hit everything they shoot at, hand
le
> everything from nunchukas to C-5 and fly a helicopter to boot are as fantastic
as
> talking animals........
Simple minded people can only comprehend simple minded messages.
There are good animes and there're bad ones. The good ones
sends meaningful messages about the negatives of war, drugs and others
in a very creative way. It is the message, not always the cosmetics.
Can't you go in deeper? Do you ever THINK after watching anything?
I guess not, you're simple-minded. You can't think on your own,
your brain is probably too spoon fed by the media and everything
is either Black or White, nothing in-between. Nothing opens for
subjective debates for you. It's either Right or Wrong for simple
minded people like you.
>
> Once again, I like anime, I just don't think it can hold a technical candle to
the
> stuff that Disney is doing.
Technically yes, Disney is advance, But that's only in CGI and
marketing.
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Robert Owens
http://www.humancodeworks.com/
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Atomic Skull
>Depends on what you mean by Disney being "crappy". Disney animation is not
>sophisticated. Their animation is all what I would consider kiddie fare. So
they
>do that well. For an adult you need anime.
>
>The comment about making less money is unfortuately true. Most people won't
pay to
>think. Or view reality. They pay to see safe stories that make them feel warm
and
>fuzzy.
>
*wince*.. I know what you mean..
-=Atomic Skull=-
See my 3-D anime characters page, http://www.ns.net/~Argus-1/index.htm
Atomic Skull
>
>Most adults do not like anime. You could probably say most adults who do 3D
like
>anime, but most adults as whole do not. In fact, I would guess most adults
would
>rather see "Beauty and the Beast" or "Lion King" than "Ghost in the Shell."
>
>
In what country?
>It is not unfortunate that most people don't want to see violent, sexually
charged
>material. In fact I would say it is very fortunate that people are
uncomfortable with
>this. Most of life is NOT car chases, mech battles and sexual
encounters.Actually,
Err, just WHAT planet are you from??? Take a look at the box office lately,
sex + violence sells.. BIG TIME!
>most people won't pay to be bombarded with sex and violence in cartoon format.
Most 20somthing guys like sex and violence in _any_ format.. Once I convince a
friend to watch Wicked City or Akira, the reaction is.. "damn, this is cool!"..
It's like saturday morning, for adults...
>And to say that Anime is "reality" is ridiculous. "Supercops" who look like
16 year
>old models and can beat a 260 pound man up, hit everything they shoot at,
handle
>everything from nunchukas to C-5 and fly a helicopter to boot are as fantastic
as
>talking animals........
>
But not nearly as moronic...
Atomic Skull
In article <3584F4...@net-1.com>, daj...@net-1.com says...
*ewww*.. I mean thats just... *ewwwwwwww*
Atomic Skull
In article <358499B2...@earthlink.net>, obr...@earthlink.net says...
>
>
>
>Atomic Skull wrote:
>
>> >I agree, you've said enough, now go away.....
>> >
>>
>> If you don't like the thread, don't read it...
>
>
>--
In life, many people will have opinions that differ from yours.. If you
don't like to argue about it, then the best course is to simply ignore them..
Telling them to "shut up and go away" rarely works..
Atomic Skull
In article <358337...@net-1.com>, daj...@net-1.com says...
>
>Well, I least the robot's didn't have the cutisy small animal
>personalities you find in anime. I get so tried so tired of the
>supposedly cute little side kick kids or animals that never do what they
>are supposed to do.. for all their appeal in a show you just want to
>smack 'em.
>
I think you have anime mixed up with the power rangers or somthing..
>Anime artists by the way learn quite a bit from Disney's older films.
You mean by making butchered, sanatized versions of classic fables?
Atomic Skull
>
>Cartoons are mostly for kids (not all, but mostly)
>
I disagree with that, in Japan (and elsewhere) animation is a respected art
form, it's only in the US and parts of Europe than animation is thought of as
"kid's stuff"
>I notice you didn't criticise them for their animation ability. Nobody, and I
mean
>nobody does animation as good as Disney.
*BZZZTTTT* wrong, watch Akira some time...
The original post said Disney could learn
>a lot from Anime. Personally, I don't think so. Akira and Ghost in the Shell
are
>good animation, but if Disney chose to do sex, blood and guts, it would be
better.
I doubt it, it'd still be fairy tale "happy ending" generic mass market
shlock.. with blood, but still shlock..
>In fact, go see Mulan and point to any scene in any anime that compares to the
snow
>battle scene, or for that matter, the ballroom scene in Beaty and the Beast or
the
>animal stampede in Lion King.....
>
I've seen better in anime, the choerography and expressiveness of the
characters is better.
>Animation at it's best. Anime is stiff and lifeless by comparison.
I'd say the opposite, sorry, that's just how I feel.. live with it.
Paul Oberlander
Philosophy is what you do in addition while studying 3 ancient languages, computer programming,
tutoring in Astronomy and working 40-45 hours a week if you were me.....
Oh, and don't forget the other major....Graphic design
What was your major?
:-)
Paul
Atomic Skull wrote:
> >Yeah, I don't understand anything about Ghost in the Shell nor do I get "deep
> >messages." I'm just a lamo with a degree in philosophy. When you have read the
> >Bible, the Upanishads the Mahabarata, Plato and Socrates(in the original Greek),
> >Confusius, Voltaire, Hume, Tolstoy, Neitzche, as well as Sartre, Deridda,
> >Lewis...then you have to wonder. Maybe I should watch japanese cartoons, they will
> >probably have more insight than those guys.....
> >
>
> *laugh* Philosophy is what you do in college when you can't manage classes dealing with the
> hard sciences. :b
>
> -=Atomic Skull=-
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I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us
attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
-- Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey
Atomic Skull
Samuel Crider
May I suggest that people take their personal feuds off this newsgroup and
to e-mail?
Atomic Skull
>> Get it in your heads Americans! THIS WORLD IS NOT USA.
>> Supremacy attitude makes a person like an ostrich with the heads stuck
>> in the sand.
>
>When Japan lands a man on the moon I will be impressed with their mechanical
>designs.
>
Err, I really don't see how that relates to artistic ability.. I'm sure that
if American animation studios had artists specificly dedicated to doing
mechanical designs, they'd do just as well in this department.. But they
don't.. The way they do it is more along the lines of "ok, let's draw a few
robots/spaceships/whatever and be done with it"
It's simply that they don't put as much time into it, not that they are
incapable of doing it..
>
>>
>>
>> 'The magic sword' is an example of trying to copy Disney.
>> 'Anastasia' too.
>
>Anastasia made more than any Anime release in the US ever has and it was a
bomb by
>Disney standards....
>
Really, that good? (to the Brits, "bomb" means that it was good, not bad..)
>> And the girls in anime are sexier too. Disney girls look frigid.
>
>Sounds like you need to get a real girlfriend....
>
>What is sad to me, is that it seems you have derived your whole philosophy of
life
>from watching Anime. Even your taste in women. I got news for you. There
isn't a
>human on earth that looks like an anime person. Most people have more than a
bump
>for a nose, their eyes are smaller than Greenland, they don't have pointy ears
and a
>mouth just big enough to eat rice one grain at a time.
>
>;-)
>
>Paul
>
>
Err, didn't taking graphic design teach you anything? Most
animation/fantasy character designs are unrealistic, be it Anime, Disney, or
Boris Vellejo paintings (Vallejo paintings are *NOT* realistic, they violate
numerous laws of human proportioning in subtle ways). And why _SHOULD_ they be
when a camera will do a much better job in that particular department? "Still
Life" paintings started their decline around the time cameras came into
general use, after all, a camera does a much better job at capturing the real
world.
Check out the classic 1950's pinups (or from any era really).. Notice how
the lenght of the legs are exaggerated? There are numerous ways to increase
sexual appeal of a female character design by exaggerating physical features in
subtle and not so subtle ways.
The scientific term for this is "supernormal stimulation".
Atomic Skull
In article <358C9C2B...@earthlink.net>, obr...@earthlink.net says...
>
>Philosophy is what you do in addition while studying 3 ancient languages,
computer programming,
>tutoring in Astronomy and working 40-45 hours a week if you were me.....
>
>
>Oh, and don't forget the other major....Graphic design
>
Well then, THAT's certainly better...
>What was your major?
>
>:-)
>
>Paul
>
Haven't finished yet, and still haven't decided.