Ben Nye Samples
Kris Dow
In article <6m61rm$bt5$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, w...@wyb.com wrote:
>
>What do you think about this idea?
Imo, samples are always a wonderful thing. I suppose to a
cosmetic line they could be bad news (what percentage of sales are
based on people buying a product, realizing they don't like it, and
then just not bothering to take it back?) but from my pov I'm
much more likely to buy from a line which provides samples, particularyly
if the samples are of a size that you can get multiple uses out
of them. (For example, I recently recieved a sample bottle of
Kiehl's Ultra Facial Moisturizer which is, imo, a very generous
quantity. Initally I didn't like it, but I've been using it for
about a week now (and there's more than half left) and I really
like it now. I will definitely purchase it when the sample runs
out.)
With colour cosmetics, particularly lines which are not
always availible in the full line (as Ben Nye tends to be) samples
are a godsend. (I personally have heard some good things about
Ben Nye cosmetics, but have been holding off purchasing them
because I prefer to see colours up close and personal, as it were.)
>How do you purchase other makeup lines on the web? Do you try them in a store
>and then purchase them on-line?
If it's possible to get samples, I get samples. If I have to,
I may make an attempt to find them in a store, come home and think
about it, then purchase over the web (though more frequently I'll
buy one or two things at the store if I'm sure about them), but I
have to be *really* interested in at least one product in the line
before I'll make a specific effort to get to a store, typically.
>Would you be willing to pay a small amount for samples?
I am, though I've encountered some sample sets which
seem unreasonably expensive. I'm personally of the opinion that
while pricing to cover the cost of making and shipping the sample
is ok, trying to make a profit off of the sample sized items
is not. (Assuming they're actually presented as samples; There
are some products I wish would be sold in sizes closer to a sample
size, as a legitimate size for the product, since there's just
no way I'll use the entire pot in a reasonable amount of time.)
After all, isn't the entire point of a sample to get
people to purchase a full sized version of the product, thus
getting a sample? If that many samples are going out without
people buying the product, it would seem to me to be more of an
indication that the smallest size of the product is too large...
But I've never studied marketing, so maybe there's some
reason for all of this that i'm not aware of. :)
>P.S. Pressed powders, pancake, pencils, and liquid products would be excluded
>from samples since I would have no way of either obtaining a sample or
>packaging the sample safely.
Understandable, but if Ben Nye ever start producing
samples "properly", I'd love to try a sample of the brush cleaner,
and also the make up remover. (The former because I'm very tempted,
but want to see how well it actually cleans; a sample large enough
for one or two brushes would be plenty. The latter because, while
I'm interested, I've learned my lessons about buying full sized
cleansers, even if it's a fairly small size. I just end up with a
collection of little-ish bottles of cleanser. :)
-Kris
Ruby Ann Rivera
Hey, I think it's an excellent idea..!!! That way more of us
can become acquainted with this line, which is one of my
favourites of all time..!!!
The thing about paying a small fee for samples...I don't
know...it kind of contradicts the whole concept of "sampling"... (IMHO)
RUBY
LPTabs
In article <6m61rm$bt5$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, w...@wyb.com writes:
>I am interested in what the group has to say about samples.
I would love to have samples. As a matter of fact, I would even pay for them.
Then they would be considered "trial sizes". Most products contain too much
anyway. Has anyone really ever gone through a pot of loose powder?
Please do consider making samples available, we would love it!
*************************************
Linda in Maryland
*************************************
Rich Williamson
This note is meant as an informative factual piece, to explain some
misconceptions. It is meant in the nicest way, not with any mailice (don't
you love the way the internet has you having to explain yourself...
emoticons, just don't do it :))
Samples will not be very likely from a company such as ben nye or any other
film and theatrical make-up companies. One of the main reasons that the
products cost at least HALF the price is because they don't spend a lot of
money marketing the products. The marketing they do is aimed at pros.
they spend money on retailer education, pro seminars, trade journal
advertising, theatrical trade shows, and other pro venues. They don't
really market to the public at all. Sampling, retial displays, massive ad
campaigns in consumer magazines, liberal return policies all cost money.
This money has to come from somewher... and typically that place is the
cost to buy the product.
The only pro make-up sample I ever had to give out to the public (and I
still do have some) was when Mehron lauched their Celebre pro foundation
line.
I would really reccomend against getting opened containers or "dollops" of
make-up without containers. This allows for bacteria and other
contaminants to form. Your skin is far too important to risk using
products from unkown sources. I only ever us FDA approved sealed
containers of make-up. I may be a little fanatical, but I do this for a
living, and consequently cannopt afford problems. It always amazes me that
people swap thing that hve been opened... this is very unsanitary, and
potentialy dangerous.
When I introduced this group to Ben Nye Kryolan, Mehron and other
theatrical and film product lines (OVER a year and a half ago) I explained
what they were designed for. They are pro items, that have more pigments,
less fillers, and will allow you to use less product (making them cheaper
and lighter on your face), and are designed to be worn by multi-millionaire
(well not all) actors and actresses who wear the stuff for 18 hour days for
a couple of months.
These items are what they are..... they aren't consumer lines and they
won't become them any time soon (or ever). if you enjoy samples and
availibility at every single store in the country stick with the consumer
brands. If you want a better product that is used by pros, you need to
accept the limitations of the lines, and want to work at learning how to
use them (really very simple..). If you want a foundation that outperforms
your current ones, one that lasts twice as long, and looks better but only
costs $6.95 then you need to accept that there are no samples. Other pros
and I don't want to pay more for our make-up so that you can have samples.
All of the items that people want to try are under $10...... most are under
$5. When it's this cheap for the product, samples can't be justified.
ALSO... many of you are unaware of the local sources for testers.. many
costume and theatrical shops carry Ben Nye and others... (BTW While Ben
Nye is good, it is hardly the ultimate movie make-up, there are many others
that are even better). I will caution that many of these shops lack
technical expertise, and simply sell the product as it is asked for (pros
already know what they wnat, because they read about it, saw it at a show,
or talked to another pro) this is not wht you wnat, since you need to
learn about the items before you use them.
A great source for info on Ben Nye is thae catalog. I have been bugging
Dana Nye for a couple of years now to create a less technical and "pros'
only catalog... he finally did it. he came out with a very user friendly
and educational catalog early this year. The catlog contains tips on
application, product specifications and advice, and REAL color charts. It
is something that i now feel comfortable giving to consumers without having
to explain it to them. If you want a copy of the catalog, I can send you
one. I do charge $2 to cover my costs (and honestly to prevent an
onslaught of catalog requests from "catalog collectors"). I do give you a
$2 credit towards any future purchase of any brands of make-up. Essentialy
if you are considering buying the products and want to look at color charts
first, you can do it without any cost to you.
I will continue to answer technical questions about make-up in this group.
All I ask is that you focus questions before asking them. I can answer
questions such as "teach me techniques for better make-up application".....
only I charge $200 an hour for them when I run seminars and teach classes.
:)
hope this helps,
Rich
In article <slrn6ofn8...@vilnya.rings>, kr...@vilnya.demon.co.uk
(Kris Dow) wrote:
--
Rich Williamson
Pierre's Costumes
7882 Browning Rd.
Pennsauken, NJ 08109
(formerly Miller Costume -1876 & Pierre of Philadelphia -1943)
609-486-1188
215-923-1395
609-486-4402 fax
http://www.costumers.com A great site for costumes, mascots, make-up,
wigs and way more...
Since spammers scan addresses from newsgroup headers I put in a dummy
"reply to". You should substitute "COSTUMES" for
"check-sig-file-for-real-address" and "MINDSPRING" for the ISP.
w...@wyb.com
The concept of making samples of Ben Nye products available is a way to
provide service to someone who does not have a distributor close by. Even
with a catalog, either on-line or in hard copy, it is still difficult to feel
the product and see how its pigmentation reacts to that of your skin.
I prefer to have someone be happy with their purchase then to say that that
the product wasn't that much money anyways.
Would You Believe? has professional makeup artists on staff, including
myself, that are willing to answer your all of questions. We are available
Tuesday - Saturday from 10am to 6 pm Pacific Time at 1-800-700-3828. We have
placed the entire Ben Nye catalog on-line at http://www.wyb.com/makeup.html
to provide you with information about Ben Nye products at anytime of the day
or night.
WYB also answers your questions via e-mail at w...@wyb.com .
Even with all of the electronic tools available, they cannot replace one to
one contact. This is even more true in the area of makeup. It is this
reason, we are attending the NYC get-together and sponsoring another
get-together in So. Cal.
Rich and I agree on most things ... however, asking you to spend money on a
product that may not meet your needs is not one of them.
By making a sample available, and individual is allowing me to bring the
tester boards into their home.
I believe that I can provide a quality sample that would be safe for someone
to try. If I didn't, I would not have suggested it.
What I am trying to do is to provide the highest level of service possible to
those who can only visit "Would You Believe?" electronically.
I have received many comments about the possibility of samples of Ben Nye
products. I will be contact these individuals to set up a test to verify
that I can provide a quality sample. I will keep you posted on the results.
Thanks for all of your comments!
Jay from WYB
In article
<check-sig-file-for-real-addre...@news.mindspring.
com
>,
check-sig-file-...@ISP.com (Rich Williamson) wrote:
>
> This note is meant as an informative factual piece, to explain some
> misconceptions. It is meant in the nicest way, not with any mailice (don't
> you love the way the internet has you having to explain yourself...
> emoticons, just don't do it :))
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Rich Williamson
In article <dkra-23069...@ala-ca18-12.ix.netcom.com>,
dk...@NOSPAM.ix.netcom.com (dkra) wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> In article
>
<check-sig-file-for-real-addre...@news.mindspring.
com>,
> check-sig-file-...@ISP.com (Rich Williamson) wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > When I introduced this group to Ben Nye Kryolan, Mehron and other
> > theatrical and film product lines (OVER a year and a half ago) I explained
> > what they were designed for. They are pro items, that have more pigments,
> > less fillers, and will allow you to use less product (making them cheaper
> > and lighter on your face), and are designed to be worn by multi-millionaire
> > (well not all) actors and actresses who wear the stuff for 18 hour days for
> > a couple of months.
> >
> > These items are what they are..... they aren't consumer lines and they
> > won't become them any time soon (or ever).
>
> <snip>
>
> > If you want a better product that is used by pros, you need to
> > accept the limitations of the lines, and want to work at learning how to
> > use them (really very simple..). If you want a foundation that outperforms
> > your current ones, one that lasts twice as long, and looks better but only
> > costs $6.95 then you need to accept that there are no samples.
> >
> <snip>
>
> How many brands of "consumer" makeup currently being offered at most
> department stores are direct descendants of theatrical lines?
>
> Max Factor is one, so says its ad campaigns. I've heard the same of Bobbi
> Brown and Laura Mercier, but I'm not sure.
>
> Perhaps this is a good analogy: at art supply stores, one can find
> "artist" and "student" versions of the same brand of watercolor paints
> (Winsor and Newton). Their "artist" watercolors are more concentrated,
> longer-lasting, more highly pigmented, and considerably more expensive
> than their "student" watercolors.
>
> One can see the difference between Winsor and Newton Artists' Water Colour
> in Ultramarine Blue and "blue" from a Prang or Binney and Smith eight-pan.
>
> If the original inspiration for some lines of makeup was theatrical use, I
> wonder how the products have been changed (formulation, price, packaging)
> for the average consumer. I am especially concerned with formulation,
> since if it is less concentrated or not as long-lasting, then the ads are
> rather misleading.
>
> dkra
an interesting analogy... actualy quite close to true.
max factor the man was a film make-up artist who developed his own lines of
make-up. He did obviously go more toward the consumer versions of
products. It is kind of ironic that tens of years later they are now
trying to retrace these roots and play up the film history when they had
left it behind for richer pastures with consumers. (consumer brands sell
10 to 1000 times more make-up since the market is much bigger)
bobbi brown the person was a make-up artist but as far as I remeber she was
more into print work than film. The brand of make-up doesn't have a strong
film or TV heritage other than the talking heads (newscasters and
interviewers).
mercier I am not remotely familiar with their usage in film (I'm sure some
people use it,but I haven't found anyone). They are not a brand that gets
mentioned in the trade journals or advertises in industry shows or
journals.
Most of the consumer lines did not eveolve from pro lines, but instead
evolved on their own lineage. They grew mainly from the fashion and
womens everday cosmetic needs. Sure they all steal ideas from each other,
but most of the consumer brands make so much more money than pro brands,
that I doubt they even care.
One notable exception to this is Visiora by christian dior. While dior
makes consumer lines, they market this line to pros mainly. It is very
expensive, pretty darned good, but in my opinion costs too much for what it
is.
rich
>
> --
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