Wonder Bread/Mayo in Hannah and Her Sisters
GreenBeans
I'm curious, there's a a sub plot in Hannah and Her Sisters where Allen's
character goes through a religious crisis and contemplates the comforts
of Catholicism among other notable religions. In one particular scene
that has strong reference to Catholicism, Allen suggestively places a
crucifix, a bible, a loaf of Wonder Bread and some Mayo in the frame
together. Of course, this is a joke of some sort but what does it mean?
Is it a bad joke? Perhaps I've been sheltered too long by the Catholic
Church to appreciate its significance?!
SlantLight
Brian Varney
i'm not catholic, but i just saw it as a kind of "slam" on the church.
meaning, the cross and the bible means about as much to him as his groceries!
that's how i saw it anyway.
brian
Marc A. Levy
In article <varney.13.2...@pop.service.ohio-state.edu>,
varn...@pop.service.ohio-state.edu (Brian Varney) wrote:
I saw it as more of a "well, if I have to go mainstream, I go all the
way." There's a similar reference in Annie Hall, when they're at the
Carnegy (sp?) Deli early in the relationship -- he orders a corned beef
sandwich, she orders a roastbeef sandwich on white bread with lettuce,
tomato and mayo.
I think that Wonder Bread and mayo or associated more with miidle class,
white, catholic america, i.e., the reference.
marc
Teresa Jo Talerico
On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, GreenBeans wrote:
> I'm curious, there's a a sub plot in Hannah and Her Sisters where Allen's
> character goes through a religious crisis and contemplates the comforts
> of Catholicism among other notable religions. In one particular scene
> that has strong reference to Catholicism, Allen suggestively places a
> crucifix, a bible, a loaf of Wonder Bread and some Mayo in the frame
> together. Of course, this is a joke of some sort but what does it mean?
> Is it a bad joke? Perhaps I've been sheltered too long by the Catholic
> Church to appreciate its significance?!
>
> SlantLight
>
>
I agree that it's basically a comical slam against all the rituals of
organized religion. But I always thought the Wonder Bread/mayo thing was
also just a play on the "body of Christ/bread of life" imagery in Catholic
communion, which is basically the part of the Mass where parishioners
re-enact the Apostles' Last Supper of bread and wine (the "body and blood"
of Christ.)
It's hilarious because Woody is making a desperate attempt at communion.
That's why it's so funny when he pulls out the mayo.
BrYan Westbrook
Only coming through in waves, capt...@interport.net (Marc A. Levy) wrote:
>I think that Wonder Bread and mayo or associated more with miidle class,
>white, catholic america, i.e., the reference.
Perhaps, this is some sort of kosher reference.
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DootArejo
>I'm curious, there's a a sub plot in Hannah and Her Sisters where
>Allen's character goes through a religious crisis and contemplates >the
comforts of Catholicism among other notable religions. In one >particular
scene that has strong reference to Catholicism, Allen >suggestively places
a crucifix, a bible, a loaf of Wonder Bread and >some Mayo in the frame
together. Of course, this is a joke of some >sort but what does it mean?
Is it a bad joke? Perhaps I've been >sheltered too long by the Catholic
Church to appreciate its >significance?!
As a recovered Catholic, I really appreciate Woody's frequent Catholicism
jokes. I think there's a sense that a lot of what goes into being a
Catholic is simply a matter of buying into all the pageantry and trappings
(crucifixes, statues, rosaries, etc., etc.). To me , the Wonder Bread joke
says, "Being a good Catholic is as easy as going to the store and buying
groceries...just get yourself some beads and sacred hearts."
I loved the line in "Shadows and Fog" when Woody and Mia are talking about
the large sum of money she just turned over to some Catholic priests.
Woody says, "All that money is going to go directly to the poor.
Well...except for what they spend on costumes and velvet pillows."
William R Sherman
In article <...>, doot...@aol.com (DootArejo) writes:
> >I'm curious, there's a a sub plot in Hannah and Her Sisters where
> >Allen's character goes through a religious crisis and contemplates >the
> comforts of Catholicism among other notable religions. In one >particular
> scene that has strong reference to Catholicism, Allen >suggestively places
> a crucifix, a bible, a loaf of Wonder Bread and >some Mayo in the frame
> together. Of course, this is a joke of some >sort but what does it mean?
> Is it a bad joke? Perhaps I've been >sheltered too long by the Catholic
> Church to appreciate its >significance?!
>
> As a recovered Catholic, I really appreciate Woody's frequent Catholicism
> jokes. I think there's a sense that a lot of what goes into being a
> Catholic is simply a matter of buying into all the pageantry and trappings
> (crucifixes, statues, rosaries, etc., etc.). To me , the Wonder Bread joke
> says, "Being a good Catholic is as easy as going to the store and buying
> groceries...just get yourself some beads and sacred hearts."
Nope, I think you missed the point. It has to do with the fact
that people of different faiths often have other common cultural
bonds. I.e people who are Jewish generally use Rye (I think it's
Rye) bread with mustard, whereas most of rest of the counter (U.S. -
Christians) don't.
I guess it says something about the differences between religions
is more than which prayer you say, and rules you follow. It's an
entirely different (sub) culture.
Having friends of different denominations is helpful. I'm Catholic
myself, so I've had to ask my Jewish friends for tips to understand
a lot of Woody's jokes.
> I loved the line in "Shadows and Fog" when Woody and Mia are talking about
> the large sum of money she just turned over to some Catholic priests.
> Woody says, "All that money is going to go directly to the poor.
> Well...except for what they spend on costumes and velvet pillows."
Right. We all have our rituals.
Bill
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/* Bill Sherman (wshe...@ncsa.uiuc.edu) */
/* National Center for Supercomputing Applications */
/* University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign */
/* Og - "You want to do mankind a real service? Tell funnier jokes" */
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/*************************************************************************/
Savage
Who is more "White bread" than Catholics?
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.97011...@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu>,
bkfr...@students.uiuc.edu says...
>
>I'm curious, there's a a sub plot in Hannah and Her Sisters where Allen's
>character goes through a religious crisis and contemplates the comforts
>of Catholicism among other notable religions. In one particular scene
>that has strong reference to Catholicism, Allen suggestively places a
>crucifix, a bible, a loaf of Wonder Bread and some Mayo in the frame
>together. Of course, this is a joke of some sort but what does it mean?
>Is it a bad joke? Perhaps I've been sheltered too long by the Catholic
>Church to appreciate its significance?!
>
>SlantLight
Richard Schultz
Teresa Jo Talerico (tj...@columbia.edu) wrote:
: I agree that it's basically a comical slam against all the rituals of
: organized religion. But I always thought the Wonder Bread/mayo thing was
: also just a play on the "body of Christ/bread of life" imagery in Catholic
: communion, which is basically the part of the Mass where parishioners
: re-enact the Apostles' Last Supper of bread and wine (the "body and blood"
: of Christ.)
Actually, most of the people who have answered this have more or less
completely missed the point. The white bread and mayonnaise is a jokey
way of expressing his character's complete abandonment of his Jewish
roots. No real Jewish person would be caught dead eating Wonder Bread.
As Lenny Bruce once said, lime soda is goyish even if a Jew invented it.
As he tried to explain in "Annie Hall," the proper way to have a
delicatessen sandwich is on rye bread with mustard, not on white bread
with mayonnaise.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"I've lost my harmonica, Albert."
Melissa Pettigrew
GreenBeans <bkfr...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>I'm curious, there's a a sub plot in Hannah and Her Sisters where Allen's
>character goes through a religious crisis and contemplates the comforts
>of Catholicism among other notable religions. In one particular scene
>that has strong reference to Catholicism, Allen suggestively places a
>crucifix, a bible, a loaf of Wonder Bread and some Mayo in the frame
>together. Of course, this is a joke of some sort but what does it mean?
>Is it a bad joke? Perhaps I've been sheltered too long by the Catholic
>Church to appreciate its significance?!
>
>SlantLight
I've always figured that "wonderbread" and "mayo" are sort of symbolic of
the whole group of people who weren't Jewish...not necessarily
representative of Catholism per se..but more symbolic of what Judiasm is
not...hey - just my opinion...kind of like Woody's characters idea of
what represented Catholism(or any other non-Jewish religon_ in a
goofy-Woody kind of way...
melissa
Gelty1
I think that the explanation of the white bread and mayo is that the
character
that Woody is playing is thinking about leaving his Jewish heritage and
embracing Catholicism, and part of this transition is to change his food
choices
from Jewish rye bread and mustard to the supposed Gentile choice of white
bread and mayo.
John Norris
Exactly!! My god!! I followed this line of responses from the beginning
and could not believe how many supposed fans of satire (that's the type of
humor that Mr. Allen uses...it's when the human condition is held up for
ridicule) could not get the joke in the Wonder Bread scene.
C'mon, I mean have US highschool standards fallen that low...I used to
assume that most folks got the big picture...but I'm beginning to wonder.
How can someone not understand that the Wonder Bread symbolizes the
struggle of the oppressed classes of our society juxtaposed with the
nouveaux rich classes who look down upon them while owning the tools of
modern capitalism. A simple Marxist paradigm.
God, doesn't anyone read??
Savage <sav...@wolfenet.com> wrote in article
<5beijp$o...@ratty.wolfe.net>...
> Who is more "White bread" than Catholics?
>
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.97011...@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> bkfr...@students.uiuc.edu says...
> >
Marianne Wallace
WOW! I couldn't wait to get in here today and read all the comments.
And so far nothing has reached me.
I grinned through the whole movie. The Narrator so fickle that she
couldn't even decide which season in New York she liked the best!
Charming :)
Ebert gave it four stars and a glowing review. For those who care
about such details.
TINY SPOILER FOLLOWS
The badly done pictures on the piano during Aldas song had to be
intentionally done badly...., right? Did anyone find a reason for that
though?
Marianne
-
BELIEF that you can do it is critical to success
David D. King
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.97011...@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu>,
GreenBeans <bkfr...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> I'm curious, there's a a sub plot in Hannah and Her Sisters where Allen's
> character goes through a religious crisis and contemplates the comforts
> of Catholicism among other notable religions. In one particular scene
> that has strong reference to Catholicism, Allen suggestively places a
> crucifix, a bible, a loaf of Wonder Bread and some Mayo in the frame
> together. Of course, this is a joke of some sort but what does it mean?
> Is it a bad joke? Perhaps I've been sheltered too long by the Catholic
> Church to appreciate its significance?!
>
> SlantLight
Was it not "Hell-man's" mayo?
Richard Schultz
Steven Jones (st...@rdues.liv.ac.uk) wrote:
: . . .Surely, it
: is the juxtaposition of essentially meaningless religious paraphernalia
: with everyday food (a true pre-requisite in life) that creates the joke.
No, the joke is created by the juxtaposition of specifically Roman
Catholic religious paraphernalia with two foods that are emphatically
*not* associated with Jewish culture (Wonder Bread and mayonnaise).
The point being that you *really* know he's giving up on Judaism because
he's getting ready to eat Wonder Bread! It may be that people unfamiliar
with the New York Jewish milieu won't get the joke, but it's fairly
obvious to most Jewish people what he was getting at in that scene.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"To be, or not to be, I there's the point,
To Die, to sleepe, is that all? I all;
No, to sleepe, to dreame, I mary there it goes. . ."
John Norris
Ziv:
You were the only person to get the Marxist joke!! (I posted it) The
mayo/wonder was a simple sight gag. The deeper meanings were obviously
implied, but to go to this extent is ludicrous.
Good God...I mean, so many people seemed to be laboring so hard over such a
simple concept.
It scares me to think how low the lowest common denominator is.
You win an all expense paid trip to Grossinger's in beautiful Liberty, New
York...Jewel of the Catskills.
fiddl...@aol.com wrote in article
<19970117015...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> In article <5bj0g6$h...@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>, sch...@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
> (Richard Schultz) writes:
>
> >Actually, most of the people who have answered this have more or less
> >completely missed the point. The white bread and mayonnaise is a jokey
> >way of expressing his character's complete abandonment of his Jewish
> >roots. No real Jewish person would be caught dead eating Wonder Bread.
> >As Lenny Bruce once said, lime soda is goyish even if a Jew invented it.
> >As he tried to explain in "Annie Hall," the proper way to have a
> >delicatessen sandwich is on rye bread with mustard, not on white bread
> >with mayonnaise.
>
> Absolutely. But I'll tell you, some of the other explanations should be
> forwarded to Woody for him to use in another film. Especially the one
> about Marxism.
>
> Zvi the Fiddler
>
> Reply to: Fiddl...@aol.com
>
>
> "... drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring ... "
>
Steven Jones
John Norris wrote:
>
> Exactly!! My god!! I followed this line of responses from the beginning
> and could not believe how many supposed fans of satire (that's the type of
> humor that Mr. Allen uses...it's when the human condition is held up for
> ridicule) could not get the joke in the Wonder Bread scene.
>
> C'mon, I mean have US highschool standards fallen that low...I used to
> assume that most folks got the big picture...but I'm beginning to wonder.
>
> How can someone not understand that the Wonder Bread symbolizes the
> struggle of the oppressed classes of our society juxtaposed with the
> nouveaux rich classes who look down upon them while owning the tools of
> modern capitalism. A simple Marxist paradigm.
>
> God, doesn't anyone read??
>
is not the only interpretation. Personally, I found many of the
repsonses to this line intelligent and illuminating. One flaw in your
argument is that you have failed to explain what the actual "joke" is. I
mean, though obviously less educated than you, I can understand Marxist
symbolism. But you are still missing the focus of the humour. Surely, it
is the juxtaposition of essentially meaningless religious paraphernalia
with everyday food (a true pre-requisite in life) that creates the joke.
Finally, may I recommend you watch some more Woody films. It is exactly
your kind of all-American psuedo-intellectual snobbery that is being
debunked by "Mr Allen".
Good luck finding a new NG.
SJ
John Vassar
Steven,
I agree with your interpretation of this joke. But all this effort at "explaining" the joke reminds me of what Steve Allen said about explaining a joke. He said "Explaining a joke is a lot like skinning a cat. Sure you can do it, but it doesn't often survive the process.
JV
John Norris
Steve:
The majority of these responses have not been "enlightening" as you put it.
Listening to the masses wax philosophic is, for me, like Mozart listening
to the harmonica.
Steven, I notice that your server is in the UK. By that should we assume
that you are in England, Scotland, N. Ireland, Wales or Hong Kong....oops,
sorry you lost that one too, eh.
Steven Jones <st...@rdues.liv.ac.uk> wrote in article
<32E351...@rdues.liv.ac.uk>...
SJ
Richard Schultz wrote:
>
> SJ (st...@rdues.liv.ac.uk) wrote:
>
> : . . .Surely, it
> : is the juxtaposition of essentially meaningless religious paraphernalia
> : with everyday food (a true pre-requisite in life) that creates the joke.
>
> Catholic religious paraphernalia with two foods that are emphatically
> *not* associated with Jewish culture (Wonder Bread and mayonnaise).
> The point being that you *really* know he's giving up on Judaism because
> he's getting ready to eat Wonder Bread! It may be that people unfamiliar
> with the New York Jewish milieu won't get the joke, but it's fairly
> obvious to most Jewish people what he was getting at in that scene.
OK, I defer to your interpretation. Thanks.
SJ (Gentile to the end)
John Norris
Steve:
I wondered how long it would take for you to respond. Have you been
consulting your thesaurus for the past few days? Or reading all the notes
you took in your O-Level philosophy classes to come up with a response?
Anyway....it's good to spar.
The white bread-mayo juxtapositioning is an obvious joke. It kills me that
all the posts regarding it have been from people who can only see the world
from their own perspective.
The Jews say he is rejecting Judaism, the Catholics think he is mocking
blandness and conformity, the Protestants think he is making a statement
about the human condition and the Atheists state that it is an obvious poke
at the absurdity of all religion.
SJ <st...@rdues.liv.ac.uk> wrote in article
<32EC8A...@rdues.liv.ac.uk>...
> John Norris wrote:
> >
> > Steve:
> >
> > The majority of these responses have not been "enlightening" as you put
it.
> > Listening to the masses wax philosophic is, for me, like Mozart
listening
> > to the harmonica.
> >
> > Steven, I notice that your server is in the UK. By that should we
assume
> > that you are in England, Scotland, N. Ireland, Wales or Hong
Kong....oops,
> > sorry you lost that one too, eh.
> >
>
>
> Yeah, yeah. Very clever, John.
>
> Just for the record, Hong Kong is not, and never has been, a part of the
> United Kingdom. It's a British Crown Colony leased to Britain by China
> in 1842. Tasteless `joke' anyway...
>
> Still can't help wondering what you're doing on a newsgroup dedicated to
> Woody Allen. It disturbs me that someone who can draw an analogy between
> himself and Mozart with no sense of self-effacement could possibly
> identify with any Woody Allen film.
>
> Does it make you feel all nice and intellectual when you get a joke,
> John?
>
> Give me the "unenlightened masses" any day.
>
> SJ
> ...
it
> > > is the juxtaposition of essentially meaningless religious
paraphernalia
> > > with everyday food (a true pre-requisite in life) that creates the
joke.
SJ
SJ
John Norris wrote:
>
> Steve:
>
> I wondered how long it would take for you to respond.
Yeah? Maybe you should get out more?
> Have you been
> consulting your thesaurus for the past few days?
Funny you should say that. I actually write thesauri for a living!
> Or reading all the notes
> you took in your O-Level philosophy classes to come up with a response?
Great put-down, John. How will I ever recover?
>
> Anyway....it's good to spar.
Quite.
>
> The white bread-mayo juxtapositioning is an obvious joke.
You mean "juxtaposition". Try not to put `ing' on the end of nouns. It's
not big and it's not clever.
> It kills me (not literally, I hope) that
> all the posts regarding it have been from people who can only see the world
> from their own perspective.
>
Gee, I guess it's lucky that you're here with some cosmopolitan
omniscience. Please enlighten us mere mortals, oh great one.
> The Jews say he is rejecting Judaism, the Catholics think he is mocking
> blandness and conformity, the Protestants think he is making a statement
> about the human condition and the Atheists state that it is an obvious poke
> at the absurdity of all religion.
>
And what they don't realise is that they're all wrong!
Little do they know that their opinions and interpretations are rendered
meaningless by the views of the educated minority. The fools! How dare
they speak out! The great one has spoken. All hail John Norris!
SJ
> SJ <st...@rdues.liv.ac.uk> wrote in article
> <32EC8A...@rdues.liv.ac.uk>...
nojjie...@gmail.com
> I'm curious, there's a a sub plot in Hannah and Her Sisters where Allen's
> character goes through a religious crisis and contemplates the comforts
> of Catholicism among other notable religions. In one particular scene
> that has strong reference to Catholicism, Allen suggestively places a
> crucifix, a bible, a loaf of Wonder Bread and some Mayo in the frame
> together. Of course, this is a joke of some sort but what does it mean?
> Is it a bad joke? Perhaps I've been sheltered too long by the Catholic
> Church to appreciate its significance?!
>
> SlantLight
simons...@gmail.com
> I'm curious, there's a a sub plot in Hannah and Her Sisters where Allen's
> character goes through a religious crisis and contemplates the comforts
> of Catholicism among other notable religions. In one particular scene
> that has strong reference to Catholicism, Allen suggestively places a
> crucifix, a bible, a loaf of Wonder Bread and some Mayo in the frame
> together. Of course, this is a joke of some sort but what does it mean?
> Is it a bad joke? Perhaps I've been sheltered too long by the Catholic
> Church to appreciate its significance?!
>
> SlantLight
lesleyh...@gmail.com
lesleyh...@gmail.com
Jackie Goldman
> I'm curious, there's a a sub plot in Hannah and Her Sisters where Allen's
> character goes through a religious crisis and contemplates the comforts
> of Catholicism among other notable religions. In one particular scene
> that has strong reference to Catholicism, Allen suggestively places a
> crucifix, a bible, a loaf of Wonder Bread and some Mayo in the frame
> together. Of course, this is a joke of some sort but what does it mean?
> Is it a bad joke? Perhaps I've been sheltered too long by the Catholic
> Church to appreciate its significance?!
> SlantLight
Laurie Graff
Laurie Graff
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 7:48:10 PM UTC-4, Jackie Goldman wrote: