Nine out of ten Wodehouse fans are men?
Kurt & Nancy Harris
and am bursting with desire to comment. However, I will restrain myself as
much as possible. I learned a lot from this book as it was the first
biography of Wodehouse I've read.
In the first chapter, I found myself thinking several times, "This woman is
an ass!" Perhaps it is because although she knew Wodehouse personally and
was good friends with his step-daughter, Leonora, she isn't as much of a fan
of his writing as most of us here are. She admits to being a highbrow and
seems a tad condescending or patronizing, lightly passing off many of his
techniques as cheap, overused tricks. I can recognize some of those things
myself, but I truly don't tire of them and don't see them as "tricks."
In the end, I found her to be more sympathetic than it first appeared she
would be. She did lend insight into his life and I'm glad I read it.
However, there is one statement she makes in the first chapter that sticks
with me and seems particularly questionable. She says:
His girls are "young prunes," and his other characters can seldom comprehend
the attraction they find in the man of their choice -- who is often not
merely half-witted but can reasonably be described as "that young Fish" -- a
far cry from those magnetic beings with whose fate every woman in any
audience identifies herself. This departure from musical comdey practice
makes it more or less certain that out of every ten Wodehouse addicts only
one will be a woman." (p. 15)
Donaldson offers no evidence to support the truth of this statement (and she
makes many more statements without substantiation, but they mostly serve to
make the biography more personal so I forgive her for them). I ran this
statement past my wife and she believes it to be laughably inaccurate.
Considering that the book market is comprised in general of about 70-80%
women (at least in fiction, I believe), and that even the readership of
Patrick McManus and Louis L'Amour has probably never been less than 10%
women, like my wife I find this statement pure mash. (That is, my wife and I
find this statement pure mash, not that I find my wife purse mash.)
Any comments?
the pink chap
Jack Cerf
Plum's young men. As noted in the "Accomplished Young Men" thread, an
awful lot of his young male leads are ditherers, twits, layabouts and
men generally lacking in seriousness and drive -- charmingly so to be
sure. Even the more energetic young suitors of Lord Emsworth's various
nieces don't seem to have that much on the ball. On top of that, Plum
has a visceral horror of forceful, serious, intelligent women (e.g.
Florence Craye and any God's quantity of Aunts). Any Wodehouse woman
who wants a Wodehouse young man to grow up, get off his butt, and do
some meaningful work is a comic villain.
So I have no idea whether 9 out of 10 Wodehouse fans are women, but it
seems fair to say that Frances Donaldson thinks Plum is a misogynist,
albeit an amiable one.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Joann Zimmerman
Jack Cerf <jack...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Well, it tells you what a statistical sample of one woman thinks about
>Plum's young men.
[...]
>So I have no idea whether 9 out of 10 Wodehouse fans are women, but it
>seems fair to say that Frances Donaldson thinks Plum is a misogynist,
>albeit an amiable one.
If you really want some sort of moderately relibale statistical sample, I
suggest that we consult the latest Noms List, courtesy of Bonzo, and see
what the male/female ratio is. I submit that it might be more accurate than
asking the woman on the street (no French intended) whether or not she is
a Wodehouse (who? she asks) fan. Members of the Noms List have shown
themselves willing to Stand Up And Be Counted in this matter.
Honoria Glossop, Totleigh-in-the-Stacks
--
"When people are dead, they do not read books. This I find unbearable."
-- William Maxwell
Joann Zimmerman jz...@bellereti.com
Neil Midkiff
>
> I have just come to the end of Frances Donaldson's biography of Wodehouse...
> She says:
> His girls are "young prunes," and his other characters can seldom comprehend
> the attraction they find in the man of their choice -- who is often not
> merely half-witted but can reasonably be described as "that young Fish" -- a
> far cry from those magnetic beings with whose fate every woman in any
> makes it more or less certain that out of every ten Wodehouse addicts only
> one will be a woman." (p. 15)
>
> Donaldson offers no evidence to support the truth of this statement
> statement past my wife and she believes it to be laughably inaccurate.
>
Donaldson is surely oversimplifying the psychodynamics of Wodehousean
romance...there are, as we discussed in the "Accomplished Young Men"
thread recently, many male romantic leads who do have something on
the ball, and most of the others who haven't made something of themselves
prove to need only the stimulus of the right girl's love to better
themselves.
More on this in response to Jack Cerf's reply, next on this thread.
Regarding the statistics on Wodehouse addicts, I can say that Lady
Donaldson was talking through her Paris hat.
I've quickly analyzed the membership database of The Wodehouse Society.
It can't be perfectly accurate because some names are ambiguous, and
because some couples may have their membership only in one of their
names. We have only 137 couples whose membership is in the form
"John & Mary Smith", and I'm convinced that there is a significant
group of couples where both are active fans, but only one name is
on the mailing label. (If you're in that group, please go to
http://www.wodehouse.org/membership and use the form to update your
membership data to give us both names, or "reply to sender" to e-mail
me directly from this message.)
Anyway, using only the names I have in the database, we have 352 women
and 485 men, plus another 21 whose sex I can't tell from their names
or initials, as dues-paying members of The Wodehouse Society.
I suspect that the ratio would be even closer to equal if all the couples
had both names on the roster.
[By the way-- If you aren't a member of The Wodehouse Society and would
like more information, begin at http://www.wodehouse.org/ and follow
the links to The Wodehouse Society page for some introductory data,
and then to the web form as above to request more information or to
join the Society.]
-Neil Midkiff
Neil Midkiff
>
> In article <8tblad$iui$2...@mango.singnet.com.sg>,
> "Kurt & Nancy Harris" <har...@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
> > I have just come to the end of Frances Donaldson's biography of
> Well, it tells you what a statistical sample of one woman thinks about
> Plum's young men. As noted in the "Accomplished Young Men" thread, an
> awful lot of his young male leads are ditherers, twits, layabouts and
> men generally lacking in seriousness and drive -- charmingly so to be
> sure. Even the more energetic young suitors of Lord Emsworth's various
> nieces don't seem to have that much on the ball. On top of that, Plum
> has a visceral horror of forceful, serious, intelligent women (e.g.
> Florence Craye and any God's quantity of Aunts). Any Wodehouse woman
> who wants a Wodehouse young man to grow up, get off his butt, and do
> some meaningful work is a comic villain.
>
> So I have no idea whether 9 out of 10 Wodehouse fans are women, but it
> seems fair to say that Frances Donaldson thinks Plum is a misogynist,
> albeit an amiable one.
I began my reply to Kurt's initial message as follows:
Donaldson is surely oversimplifying the psychodynamics of Wodehousean
romance...there are, as we discussed in the "Accomplished Young Men"
thread recently, many male romantic leads who do have something on
the ball, and most of the others who haven't made something of themselves
prove to need only the stimulus of the right girl's love to better
themselves.
I then digressed to the male/female ratio of members of The Wodehouse
Society - much closer to equal than Lady Donaldson would have supposed.
But it seems to me that I need to challenge Jack's assertion that
"any Wodehouse woman who wants a Wodehouse young man to grow up, get off
his butt, and do some meaningful work is a comic villain."
Is Niagara "Aggie" Donaldson a comic villain? Freddie Threepwood's love
for her transforms him from a wastrel to a dog-biscuit-selling dynamo.
Is Joan Valentine a comic villain, in _Something Fresh_? She inspires
Ashe Marson to get out of his rut writing cheap detective fiction.
Is Sally Nicholas a comic villain, in _The Adventures of Sally_? She
inspires Ginger Kemp to stop depending on his family to find jobs for
him, and helps him set up as a successful dog breeder and trainer.
I could go on with more examples in the category of female romantic leads
who are themselves practical (many of them having been forced to be
self-reliant by circumstances) and who provide the impetus for their
boyfriends
to get some pep into their lives. Wodehouse always approves of these
independent young women; when you consider that these stories were written
beginning about 1915, the perspective is amazingly feminist.
Can the timing of these stories be coincidence? Wodehouse married
Ethel in 1914; she was a widow with a daughter. I seem to recall reading
(though I can't remember where) that Ethel had had to work to support
herself and Leonora -- even, for a time, performing in the ensemble of a
musical comedy.
And, of course, Wodehouse's commercial success (in terms of the quality
and quantity of his work, the prestige of the magazines that published
him, and so forth) took a remarkable upturn beginning just at this time.
Draw your own conclusions.
-Neil Midkiff
Augustus Fink-Nottle
>Is Niagara "Aggie" Donaldson a comic villain? Freddie Threepwood's love
>for her transforms him from a wastrel to a dog-biscuit-selling dynamo.
True if one is to believe the clever cove who once wrote "...where every
prospect pleases and only work is vile." I read Comrade Cerf's comment
to be a sympathetic generalization of the ghastly fate some of the
Wodehousean knuts embrace as a result of love. But then I'm also
convinced that the whole idea of working for a living is a villanous
Bolshevik plot hatched by one of those recently discussed faceless fiends.
An idle thought from,
An Idle Fellow
LadyMacBec
dear old pink chap, you opened quite a nest of thingummies, didn't you?
I have only one thing to add to this jolly group of responses, and that is:
Gussie, dear, would you be a lambkin and go fill the police station with frogs?
That mean old copper pinched Sam Goldwyn, and my Poor, Helpless, Flower-covered
Heart is liable to break into itty bitty pieces.
Er, you were saying? All of Wodehouse's women are - what?
pip pip, with a roguish wink,
Corky
Emily Jenkins
Didn't some enterprising young chap conduct a survey of a.f.w. a year or
two ago -- in which we found out not only our ages, sexes, and favorite
PGW novels, but also preferred cocktails, favorite other authors, and
best-loved board games? Surely, someone has the results somewhere about.
Post them, please, if they're sitting about in your virtual mailbox
pip pip
Lottie Blossom
ian cockburn
> Didn't some enterprising young chap conduct a survey of a.f.w. a year or
> two ago -- in which we found out not only our ages, sexes, and favorite
> PGW novels, but also preferred cocktails, favorite other authors, and
> best-loved board games? Surely, someone has the results somewhere about.
> Post them, please, if they're sitting about in your virtual mailbox
>
> pip pip
> Lottie Blossom
I say, Lottie
T'was I who did the survey to which you allude, if memory serves.
Unfortunately in those far-off days i was on a different account and I no
longer have the results. Nor can i remember who it was that thoughtfully put
them on the web. Presumably they're on the archive (this was about January
1999 i think). Maybe we should do it again soon, and take more care.
I'm jolly glad you brought this up though, because one thing I remember
clear as soda about the results was that of those who took part (more than
40, i think) the number of gentlemen and ladies were DEAD LEVEL- one of the
few level scores in the entire poll, in fact. I was convinced, as I am
still, that this result totally rubbished the insane fallacy that Wodehouse
enthusiasts are mostly men.
I remember being quite annoyed at Donaldson's book- there were lots of
things in it i didn't agree with.
I think there's a lot unrealistic about the way women are often portrayed in
Wodehouse, but it's rarely insulting, and realism isn't what either male or
female reader finds delicious in the stories anyway. The good things in
Wodehouse- the inventive language, the ridiculous situations, the
old-fashioned escapism, the mind-twisting plot manoeuvres, the sheer good
nature and innocence, the killer lines, the wry observations and
down-to-earth good sense, and the romantic happy endings are surely equally
to be appreciated by anyone.
love,
Mustard
(who has been back from his Canadian sojourn since June but has only
recently got a computer
LauraLeePN
>female reader finds delicious in the stories anyway. The good things in
>Wodehouse- the inventive language, the ridiculous situations, the
>old-fashioned escapism, the mind-twisting plot manoeuvres, the sheer good
>nature and innocence, the killer lines, the wry observations and
>down-to-earth good sense, and the romantic happy endings are surely equally
>to be appreciated by anyone.
>
>love,
>Mustard
>(who has been back from his Canadian sojourn since June but has only
>recently got a computer
>
>
>
My dear Mustard,
What you say is absolutely true and brings to mind an episode in my life which
is just a bit off-the-subject, but it still makes me laugh...
A very serious-minded friend asked me once what I had been reading lately. This
was in my early days of having discovered Wodehouse (and a library that had
many that I had not yet read) so I told her that I'd been reading mainly PGW
and told her a little about the books. She then looked at me, with a straight
face, and r
The March Hare
> My dear Mustard,
>
> What you say is absolutely true and brings to mind an episode in my life
> which is just a bit off-the-subject, but it still makes me laugh...
> A very serious-minded friend asked me once what I had been reading
>lately. This was in my early days of having discovered Wodehouse (and a
>library that had many that I had not yet read) so I told her that I'd
>been reading mainly PGW and told her a little about the books. She then
>looked at me, with a straight face, and r
I say,
I'm on tenterhooks! And then what happened?
Unti lnext time, I am...
Only a Factory Girl
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amanda Suzanne DeMeola
Mount Holyoke College
asde...@mtholyoke.edu
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~asdemeol/
"Well, I can't believe I Can't Believe It's Not Butter and the stuff I
can't believe is not I Can't Believe It's Not Butter are not butter, and I
believe that they both just might in fact be butter, but in cunning
disguises, and in fact there's a lot more butter out there than we
believe."
-Alice, in "The Vicar of Dibley"
LauraLeePN
saying...
>A very serious-minded friend asked me once what I had been reading lately.
>This
>was in my early days of having discovered Wodehouse (and a library that had
>many that I had not yet read) so I told her that I'd been reading mainly PGW
>and told her a little about the books. She then looked at me, with a straight
>face, and r
>
>
>
She recommended to me a biography of Nelson Mandela that she'd recently read!
I mean to say, what!
Not that I mind a spot of educational reading now and then! Perhaps she wanted
to improve my mind. Always dangerous.
Sorry about the cliffhanger.
Annabelle Sprockett-Sprockett
AFol...@webtv.net
And yet, as so often happened with the chapter endings in the serials
of my youth, the actual dénouement failed to live up to what one's
imagination had supplied. I was aquiver to see what would come of
this. Was it to be continued as:
"appelled with the sure-footed confidence of a mountain goat down the
east face of Notre-Dame!"
...or perhaps:
"evealed her true identity as Blorpha, Queen of the Artichoke Men of
Neptune!"
...or even:
"ipped out my liver and lights through my nose, cackling maniacally the
while as she pranced on my mangled remains!"
The actual outcome, I fear, was a bit of a comedown.
Ta!
Le Vicomte de Blissac
Emily Jenkins
My dear Mustard,
Perhaps it is indeed time for a new poll. We have many a new member among
us. (and alas, many a dear departed, not among us). Well, dear departed
may not be the mot juste, but you get my meaning. I however, can not
undertake said poll due to obligations of a semi-scholarly nature and the
difficulties involved in applying for a mortgage. Are you game? And what
is it, precisely, that we most need to know about a.f.w. members? Drink
recipes, of course, but what else?
Lottie
Howard Whitehouse
Nelson Mandela, under the advice of Galahad Threepwood, is impersonating a
member of the nobility, or perhaps an American millionaire, to persuade a
grim aunt to allow him to marry a plucky chorus girl, while thousands of
miles from Blandings Castle Uncle Fred has brought down apartheid (the
system invented by Sir Roderick Spode, I understand) freeing Pongo from
Robben Island after many years in solitary for stealing policemen's helmets
on boat race night ----- all too strange, I'm afraid --- Buck-U-Uppo
<AFol...@webtv.net> wrote in message news:8tqagh$s7c$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
JMG Joe
ascertain?
A Young Man In Spats
c/o The Drones Club
16 Dover Street
London, W1
LauraLeePN
I agree! I should have left it as it was! My ending is absolutely boring
compared to the ones you imagined.
However, if this so-called friend had actually r...evealed her true identity as
Blorpha, Queen of the What-is-its, I could not avoid her more sedulously than I
do now!
Annabelle
Whatsits Galore
irreverence. Nothing insulting here, just good fun.
<a href=http://whatsitsgalore.disneyfansites.com></a>
Keith Ingram
more odious fiancees, offensive to men and women alike. Did she have a
wonderful profile, I wonder? Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Billie Dore
Annabelle confessed:
Chase Kimball
LauraLeePN wrote:
>
>
> She recommended to me a biography of Nelson Mandela that she'd recently read!
> I mean to say, what!
>
> Not that I mind a spot of educational reading now and then! Perhaps she wanted
> to improve my mind. Always dangerous.
>
Next thing you know, she will be associating with the Bloomsbury gang,
who notoriously enjoy the most frightful bilge!
> Sorry about the cliffhanger.
>
> Annabelle Sprockett-Sprockett
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Chase Kimball (ch...@aros.net), nom de Plum "Lord Brancaster" aka
+"Hannibal" in the Quake Clan "Zero Tolerance." Columnist for
+http://www.voodooextreme.com (hann...@voodooextreme.com)
+
+"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
+need for illusion is deep." Saul Bellow.
+
+Visit my home page at http://www.aros.net/~chase to view the
+virtual gallery of fantasy art of Jesse Allen, and the home site
+of the Wasatch Avian Education Society.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bill Riepl
>Next thing you know, she will be associating with the Bloomsbury gang,
>who notoriously enjoy the most frightful bilge!
Neo-Vorticist sculptors and all that? Perishing outsiders, the lot of 'em,
that's what I say. Speaking of which, why outsider? Perishing I can grasp in
my humble colonial mind, but "outsider"? Outside of one's social circle?
Outside of the haut monde? "Of sturdy middle class stock"?
And, may I return to the original bent of this thread, I might add that I am
heartily... well, heartened, I suppose, to learn that not ALL PGW fans are
gents, as I intend to make it a crucial testing point for any prospective
fiancée. In fact, I understand that if you slip the presiding bishop a
fiver, he'll even add it to the vows:
"Do you promise to love, honor, obey, and not hog all the good Woodehouse
books"
Pip pip,
Dawlish
LadyMacBec
or a gel likes Wodehouse, chances are they will be able to laugh at life's
little slings and arrows, what? (Also, they might be creative and Open to
Chicken Farming when the bills come in.) I have been notoriously Florence
Craylike about it, though, and all of my boyfriends (yep, all of them) have had
to follow a strict diet of P.G. poor sods.
spreading s.&l. and scattering sixpence amongst the kiddies,
Corky
LadyMacBec
My favorite, I believe, is "Oncle Freidrich und ze hund-runningeringtung."
pip pip
Corky ze Haddockschlastenger
Bart Pepermans
Our Belgian Drones Club consists for more than 85% of male members. I don't know
why, I give only the facts. One of the reasons could be that Wodehouse is not as
overwhelming in Dutch as in English, and there are more men than women in
Belgium who are capable of reading in English.
By the way, the Dutch versions of Wodehouse books are the better ones. In French
or German it must be awful bad. Is there someone who can tell me more about the
quality of thr translated Wodehouse,
pipeloo, Bertie Pepper from Belgium
Kurt & Nancy Harris schreef:
disgusted
"LadyMacBec" <ladym...@aol.com> wrote
>...I have been notoriously Florence
> Craylike about it, though, and all of my boyfriends (yep, all of them)
have had
> to follow a strict diet of P.G. poor sods.
Corky, old horse,
This reminds me of that bit in Nietzche's 'Also Sprach Zarathustra' when our
hero is told by his fiancee to read loads of british comic novels. Needless
to say, as in all of Nietzche's works, hilarity ensues until Zarathustra's
faithful valet restores order and utters the immortal words 'You would not
have enjoyed Wodehouse, sir. He is fundamentally unsound.'
(I'm a big fan of Nietzche's actually, particularly 'Ecce Butler',
'Twilight of the Aunts', and that passage in 'Unzeitgemasse Betrachtungen'
in which Lord Emsworth explains the concept of the Uberpig.)
The 18 Carat Kid.
Jack Daly
last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as Wodehouse? I've
had a hard time finding any, the Amis'es, while entertaining, are more in
the vicious style of Evelyn Waugh, and more transparently "serious literature," whatever that is.
And while I like Tom Sharpe, I find the first half of his books are
invariably miles better than the finish. Just an opinion.
Only one I found is Joe Keenan, who is American and wrote two hilarious
novels before he got mixed up in television, working on Frasie I believe. The
books are present-day, and have to do with a light comedy
librettist/lyricist (if I'm remembering rightly) and his picaresque
adventures in New York mostly caused by his neer-do-well best friend.
The two main characters happen to be gay, and to my shame I put off
buying the books because I feared they might be too insular or some-such
tosh. When I picked one up cheap at a booksale I devoured it in a day and was dismayed
to learn that he only has the two books.
Anyway I'd appreciate it if anybody had any recommendations.
Air Commodore Raymond
George Mulliner
> Probably been covered to death on here but are there any novelists in the
> last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as Wodehouse?
I'd recommend Sarah Caudwell. She only wrote four books before her untimely death earlier this year,
and I loved every one of them.
George Mulliner
bill walsh
<arunn...@nobugsspam.che.wisc.edu> wrote:
I must concur in the strongest terms possible. Herculean concurrence.
Start with "Thus Was Adonis Murdered" and proceed at your leisure. I
mourn the passing of Sarah Caudwell (Cockburn), and that of her books as
well.
Horace Appleby
Master Criminal
The March Hare
Sorry I can't help you out with authors; I just wanted to mention that Joe
Keenan wrote a wonderful introduction to the Penguin 20th Cent. Classics
edition of Code of the Woosters which added immensely to my enjoyment of
the novel-which is rarely the case with introductions.
Also, Frasier is one of my favorite shows. Is it a coincidence that one of
the writers is an admirer of Wodehouse? I think not.
Until next time, I remain...
LadyMacBec
suggest heartily that you read "An Embarrassment of Corpses" by our own beloved
Boko, alias (when he's in his regular clothes) Alan Beechey. Top-Hole stuff,
and a definite flavour of Plum. I am awaiting the next installment with bated
breath. (my boyfriend keeps giving me altoids, but they don't help...)
pip pip
Corky
disgusted
the Pistol' and 'Something Nasty in the Woodshed' , fairly recently
reprinted in one chunky volume by Black Spring Press ) by Kyril Bonfiglioli.
It's a cracking good read in itself and even more so if you know the Jeeves
stories. Oh, all right, I admit, the third volume is a bit weak, but my
personal opinion is that 'Don't Point That Thing at Me' is about as good a
Wodehouse imitation/parody/homage as we're likely to see in this world. As
you've probably gathered from the titles, there is rather more violence and
general brutality in KB than in PGW, and yet he manages to miraculously
preserve the atmos. How? Dashed if I know.
The 18 Carat Kid
Bill Deeck
to concede that all of the suggestions thus far meet with my approval:
Caudwell, Beechey--including his second, "Murdering Ministers"--and
Bonfiglioli. Would also suggest Kenneth Hopkins's "She Died Because...,"
"Body Blow," and "Dead Against My Principles," which feature Professor
Manciple and Dr. Blow, both of whom rival Lord Emsworth in impracticality
but are considerably more active and thus more dangerous. In the darker
area with Bonfiglioli are Frank McAuliffe's "For Murder I Charge More," "Of
All the Bloody Cheek," and "Rather a Vicious Gentleman," all of which
feature an amusing assassin, and Douglas Lindsay's "The Cutting Edge of
Barney Thomson" and "The Long Midnight of Barney Thomson." You might also
try Margery Allingham's "The Crime at Black Dudley," in which Albert Campion
emulates to some extent Bertie Wooster.
Constable Eustace Oates
"Jack Daly" <jdd...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.10.100110...@localhost.localdomain...
> Probably been covered to death on here but are there any novelists in the
AFol...@webtv.net
100...@localhost.localdomain>,
I have found a certain Wodehousean flavour to Lindsey Davis's Marcus
Didius Falco comic mysteries, of which there have been twelve so far.
Falco is a self-described "private informer" working in the reign of
Vespasian. The milieu is, of course, rather remote from Bertie
Wooster's London, though the first entry in the series, /Silver Pigs/,
did take place partly in Britain, and I understand that the next entry,
working title /The Body in the Bath-House/, will return him there.
LadyMacBec
if you haven't read Dorothy Sayers' novels, you really ought to give them a
shot. The character of Lord Peter has a definite Wodehousian flavour...they're
quite different, though, being murder mysteries and what not.
Also, Elisa DeCarlo's "strong spirits" and "the devil you say", rather small,
entertaining pieces with a layabout gentleman who COULD be in the Drones Club.
helpfully,
Corky
David Brooks
>last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as Wodehouse?
Interesting that virtually all of the suggestions so far are mysteries.
Wonder why Plum didn't write any mysteries? "Peril in the Pig Sty" or "Death
before Dinner" or "Mr. Mulliner's Murder" would, I should think, have flown
off the bookstore shelves.
Perhaps he did write them, but hid them away in secret shame, and they'll be
found some day:
The Awful Affair of the Oldest Member
Lord Emsworth Confesses
Soft-fronted Shirts Won't Stop a Bullet
Call Scotland Yard, Jeeves!
Psmith and the Psnifer of Psyanide
Jim Evans
> >are there any novelists in the
> >last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as Wodehouse?
>
> Interesting that virtually all of the suggestions so far are mysteries.
Most popular genre of the time, one supposes. For non-mysteries (comic
sf, to be specif.), the name of Douglas Adams has been bandied about as
being in the Wodehousean vein, and Neil Gaiman has shown many a streak
of Plumishness in his lighter work. And of course, Asimov's "Azazel"
stories are a supernatural sort of homage to Ukridge.
> Wonder why Plum didn't write any mysteries? "Peril in the Pig Sty" or "Death
> before Dinner" or "Mr. Mulliner's Murder" would, I should think, have flown
> off the bookstore shelves.
>
> Perhaps he did write them, but hid them away in secret shame, and they'll be
> found some day:
>
> The Awful Affair of the Oldest Member
> Lord Emsworth Confesses
> Soft-fronted Shirts Won't Stop a Bullet
> Call Scotland Yard, Jeeves!
> Psmith and the Psnifer of Psyanide
And you mustn't forget, old horse, "Ten Little Pelicans","Ukridge,
P.I.", and "Eggs, Beans, and Murder".
JIM, W is for Wodehouse
--
The JIM Experience - http://welcome.to/the_jim_experience
This week in "The Files of Hydrogen Guy":
Armageddon With A Side of Fries - Part II
Jack Daly
forward to checking out Bonfigiloli, Beechey, Lindsey Davis, Dorothy
Sayers (never read her but I have one right here already, used 3 novel
edition picked up for $4 on the street, God bless New York sidewalk
booksellers), Asimov (!), - looking forward especially to that, Neal
Gaiman,(pardon the list, I'm also using this to take notes), Frank
Mcauliffe, and Kenneth Hopkins. And also the Joe Keenan Wodehouse intro.
Hot damn.
I've read the Rumpoles, can't get enough of them. Feel a bit shirty
as I should've mentioned John Mortimer in my post. Damn my eyes. Caudwell
too, but I haven't got the bug yet, only read the Adonis one. Looking
forward to the rest of it.
Thanks again, & toodle-pip mf-ers,
Air Commodore Raymond
On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 AFol...@webtv.net wrote:
> In article <3a0b4683$0$19404$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au>,
> "charles stone-tolcher" <cstone20opyusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > ..."Black Mischief" is very funny until in the last chapter where one
> > of the characters gets eaten by natives. In the 'Loved One' which also is
> > humourous ends with a major character committing suicide. It leaves a bad
> > taste in the mouth don't you know. This could never happen in a Wodehouse.
> >
> What ho, Pillingshot;
>
> Sorry; I find myself fogged as to whether that 'leaves a bad taste in the
> mouth' observation refers to the ending of /The Loved One/, or that of /Black
> Mischief/.
bill walsh
Loopy sort of cross between Wodehouse and Robert Ludlum. Big fun.
Horace Appleby
Master Criminal
AFol...@webtv.net
"David Brooks" <dbr...@empire.net> wrote:
> >are there any novelists in the
> >last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as Wodehouse?
>
> Interesting that virtually all of the suggestions so far are
mysteries.
>
"Death
> before Dinner" or "Mr. Mulliner's Murder" would, I should think, have
flown
> off the bookstore shelves.
>
> Perhaps he did write them, but hid them away in secret shame, and
they'll be
> found some day:
>
> The Awful Affair of the Oldest Member
> Lord Emsworth Confesses
> Soft-fronted Shirts Won't Stop a Bullet
> Call Scotland Yard, Jeeves!
> Psmith and the Psnifer of Psyanide
>
Plum did publish at least one "serious" mystery short story, "Death at
the Excelsior" (or was it "Murder at...?), dating from early in his
career and published in /The Uncollected Wodehouse/. It was not, as I
recall, a very satisfying tale, and it's probably just well that he
stuck with his own genre.
charles stone-tolcher
Try as I might, I have not been able to think of anyone quite like Plum. No
doubt John Mortimer's 'Rumpole' (in my opinion) comes remotely close to this
honour and Waugh's "Scoop" is a hoot. The problem with Waugh is that he
tends to have macabe endings to his humourous stories (except Scoop). For
example "Black Mischief" is very funny untill in the last chapter where one
of the characters gets eaten by natives. In the 'Loved One' which also is
humourous ends with a major character committing suicide. It leaves a bad
taste in the mouth don't you know. This could never happen in a Wodehouse
Pillingshot
"Jack Daly" <jdd...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.10.100110...@localhost.localdomain...
> Probably been covered to death on here but are there any novelists in the
> last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as Wodehouse? I've
AFol...@webtv.net
"charles stone-tolcher" <cstone20opyusnet.com.au> wrote:
<snip>
> ..."Black Mischief" is very funny until in the last chapter where one
> of the characters gets eaten by natives. In the 'Loved One' which also is
> humourous ends with a major character committing suicide. It leaves a bad
> taste in the mouth don't you know. This could never happen in a Wodehouse.
>
What ho, Pillingshot;
Sorry; I find myself fogged as to whether that 'leaves a bad taste in the
mouth' observation refers to the ending of /The Loved One/, or that of /Black
Mischief/.
Ta!
Bianchi
Greetings from Blandings on th Bayou: Plum wrote at least one mystery that i
thought had a kind of Christie feel toit. there was a major a boarding house
and a mysterious death involving an undetectable poison. and a cat. Petty good
but i think it was smart of him to stick to Jeeves etc. Lady Constance who
doesnpt know which way tolook or what to think about our election mess. Being
the laughting stock of the Italian press isn't funny.
Interesting that virtually all of the suggestions so far are mysteries.
Wonder why Plum didn't write any mysteries? "Peril in the Pig Sty" or "Death
before Dinner" or "Mr. Mulliner's Murder" would, I should think, have flown
off the bookstore shelves.
Perhaps he did write them, but hid them away in secret shame, and they'll be
found some day:
The Awful Affair of the Oldest Member
Lord Emsworth Confesses
Soft-fronted Shirts Won't Stop a Bullet
Call Scotland Yard, Jeeves!
Psmith and the Psnifer of Psyanide
"..Greetings from Blandings on the Bayooo.."
charles stone-tolcher
The story you refer to: "Death at the Excelsior" was, and I concur with
another posting that has already given an opinion on this little ditty, not
a great piece of work. In fact I seem to recall reading that Wodehouse
himself considered it a shocker.
Pillingshot
"Bianchi" <mbia...@att.net> wrote in message
news:erkm0ts3142bt9dib...@4ax.com...
LadyMacBec
I think "If I Were You" can be considered somewhat a mystery, can it not? I
mean to say, there are several scenes with suspensful what-nots strewn about
with a lavish hand by ol' Plum. If one takes the basic structure of his plots,
he really DID write mysteries. It is simply that they are funny, and no one
gets murdered. The parallel to murder is, I suppose, marriage, in Plum's case.
hmmm.
I think I shall stop thinking and go pinch a helmet or two.
pip pip
Corky
Augustus Fink-Nottle
If one is to believe the Tribal Chief of the whatisit tribe in Black Mischief,
the taste in *his* mouth was particularly good. But seriously, I love Black
Mischief to death, especially the ending which left me stunned and staring
into space, wondering if I'd really read what I did. Scandalous, to say the
least.
- Gussie
The Mixer
> Probably been covered to death on here but are there any novelists in the
> last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as Wodehouse? I've
> had a hard time finding any, the Amis'es, while entertaining, are more in
> the vicious style of Evelyn Waugh, and more transparently "serious literature," whatever that is.
> And while I like Tom Sharpe, I find the first half of his books are
> invariably miles better than the finish. Just an opinion.
Mystery writer Simon Brett's Mrs Pargeter series is quite good, the title character being a sort of
cross between Miss Marple and a septuagenarian version of Dolly Molloy. As as example, see if this
following brief excerpt reminds you of anything. (If only Mrs Pargeter had said "Oh, ah" instead of
"Oh" near the end of this exchange the parallel would have been exact.) An ex-convict and former
colleague of the late Mr Pargeter is rehearsing his new-found joke-telling skills on Mrs P.
"This bloke, see, he goes to the bank, and there's this other bloke sitting at a desk with a black
mask on ... I mean, the bloke's got the mask on, not the desk."
"Right."
"And the bloke - this is the first bloke, I mean the one who comes in - he says to another bloke -
this is not the man sitting at the desk with the mask on..."
"It's a third bloke, in fact."
"It is. You got it, right, a third bloke. Anyway this bloke - the one who's come in - he asks the
other bloke - not the one with the mask on his desk, that is, the third one - he asks him: 'Oo's that
bloke over there?' This is the one with the mask he's asking about now, right?"
"Right."
"So the other bloke - this is the third one now..."
"I'm with you."
"He says: 'That bloke's our Mortgage Department. He's the Loan Arranger!'"
Fossilface O'Donohue rumbled with laughter at the punch-line, and Mrs Pargeter too managed to
summon up a little chuckle. "Very good, very good."
"Yeah, well, the trick with jokes," he confided, "doesn't lie in the joke itself.."
"Doesn't it?"
"No, it's not the jokes - it's the way you tell them."
"Oh."
"I been practicing that, and all."
"Oh, it shows, it shows."
The Mixer
bob...@my-deja.com
The Mixer <ian_m...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Mystery writer Simon Brett's Mrs Pargeter series is quite good, the
title character being a sort of
> cross between Miss Marple and a septuagenarian version of Dolly
Molloy. As as example, see if this
> following brief excerpt reminds you of anything. (If only Mrs
Pargeter had said "Oh, ah" instead of
> "Oh" near the end of this exchange the parallel would have been exact
I've never heard anybody say, "Oh, ah", but I see it in novels all the
time (not just Wodehouse -- John Dickson Carr uses it).
Is it something from the period when Wodehouse and Carr were both
writing? Is it a British usage (though both cited writers were
binational, so to speak).
George Finch
charles stone-tolcher
have macarbe twists at the end and these, not to put too fine a point on
it, make one feel that the humour is lost and it is sad because it makes me
wonder as to why he would do this to otherwise funny stories. The endings
are so out of place with the rest of the story. They are, in other words, an
unnecessary appendage.
Pillingshot
<AFol...@webtv.net> wrote in message news:8ufj7d$t7f$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
LadyMacBec
>I've never heard anybody say, "Oh, ah", but I see it in novels all the
>time (not just Wodehouse -- John Dickson Carr uses it).
Perhaps it is a translation from the Scots. Although while I'm thinking about
it (while I'm thinking at all, which is remarkable before I've had my tea)
I've never heard a ScotsPerson say "Och, Aye," either. I know quite a few
Scotspeople, too. hmmmm. What Does It Mean?
Pensively Going to The Kitchen For a Smackerel of Something,
Corky
The Mixer
LadyMacBec wrote:
> Although while I'm thinking about
> it (while I'm thinking at all, which is remarkable before I've had my tea)
> I've never heard a ScotsPerson say "Och, Aye," either
Or "Hoots!" for that matter.
The Mixer
The Mixer
> Hello there all over the world,
>
> Our Belgian Drones Club consists for more than 85% of male members. I don't know
> why, I give only the facts. One of the reasons could be that Wodehouse is not as
> overwhelming in Dutch as in English, and there are more men than women in
> Belgium who are capable of reading in English.
> By the way, the Dutch versions of Wodehouse books are the better ones. In French
> or German it must be awful bad. Is there someone who can tell me more about the
> quality of thr translated Wodehouse,
> pipeloo, Bertie Pepper from Belgium
What ho, mon vieux poivre!
I don't know why your post, dated Mon, Nov 6, didn't show up here until Fri, Nov 10,
but no doubt the blackguards in charge of the Fourth Dimension can provide the
answer.
If you can acquire a copy of Richard Usborne's 'Wodehouse at Work to the End' you'll
find a chapter titled 'The French for Wodehouse' dealing with the problems of
translating the Master.
At one point Usborne asks a French-speaking Belgian friend for his opinion of a
translation of 'Joy in the Morning' and is told , "It cannot be any good for two
reasons. First, there are no equivalents for the Wodehouse layers of slang in
French. There is no upper middle class in France comparable to the English public
school type, and French student slang is regional and changes much too quickly.
Anyway, French is a Latin language. In German and Dutch you'd possibly find that
Wodehouse translations could be good. But not in French. It hasn't got the same
sort of idioms as English. The second reason is this. I haven't heard of the
Fonscolombes (the French translators of 'Joy in the Morning'), which probably means
they are not literateurs in their own right. Translation is such a badly paid
profession that, if you do it for a living, you've got to do it quickly. Even if
Wodehouse could be done in French at all, he could certainly not be done quickly.
The best hope would be to get some rich man who for a hobby would pore and polish,
pore and polish for years."
Teuf-teuf
The Mixer
charles stone-tolcher
You are quite right and one must not forget the dark doings behind 'The
Great Hat Mystery'.
Pillingshot
"LadyMacBec" <ladym...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001110050435...@ng-bj1.aol.com...
came...@my-deja.com
> Probably been covered to death on here but are there any novelists in
> the last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as
> Wodehouse?
>
> Anyway I'd appreciate it if anybody had any recommendations.
>
> Air Commodore Raymond
My dear sir,
I would send you off to acquire a copy of E.F. Benson's "Lucia" series.
The first in the series is "Queen Lucia".
I believe there a publication of all his stories in one physical book,
but I am unable to recall the title of said collection.
Cheers,
Aunt Susan
came...@my-deja.com
>
> Perhaps it is a translation from the Scots. Although while I'm
thinking about
> it (while I'm thinking at all, which is remarkable before I've had my
tea)
few
> Scotspeople, too. hmmmm. What Does It Mean?
> Pensively Going to The Kitchen For a Smackerel of Something,
> Corky
>
Corky -
An old flame of mine was from Scotland, and I have heard him say "Och
aye the new!" (phonetical spelling, mind you!).
Anne Cotton
same possible shades of meaning, from "Oh, yes, that hadn't occurred
to me but you could be right" to "Oh, yes, if you want to put it THAT
way (but who in their right mind would?)." If it got mistranslated into
"Oh, ah" by some twit of an Englishman who didn't know any better --
well, it's typical.
Lady Bassettt (who claims quite a bit of Scots descent)
LadyMacBec <ladym...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001110175959...@ng-cr1.aol.com...
> George Finch harrumphed:
> >I've never heard anybody say, "Oh, ah", but I see it in novels all the
> >time (not just Wodehouse -- John Dickson Carr uses it).
> (snippety)
>
John Winters
Jack Daly <jdd...@rcn.com> wrote:
>Probably been covered to death on here but are there any novelists in the
>had a hard time finding any, the Amis'es, while entertaining, are more in
>the vicious style of Evelyn Waugh, and more transparently "serious literature," whatever that is.
>And while I like Tom Sharpe, I find the first half of his books are
>invariably miles better than the finish. Just an opinion.
Have you tried Saki (H.H. Munro)? Can be very black but at his lightest
he's not totally un-Wodehousian.
John
--
John Winters. Wallingford, Oxon, England.
The Linux Emporium - the source for Linux CDs in the UK
See http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/
LadyMacBec
>"Oh, ah" by some twit of an Englishman who didn't know any better --
>well, it's typical.
ah, yes. I mean, och, aye. Thanks ever so much, Lady B.; I actually, in asking
What It Meant, was referring to the Higher Question. I claim quite a bit of
Scots myself, so we are well met. (and God bless the King over the water...)
I think, if it WERE a translation, it would be, as translations usually are,
only as close as the native spirit of the speaker could make it. Being on the
whole a more diffident species, it follows that an Englishman would prefer to
say "oh, ah" (which is, you must admit, a sort of acquiescence) than its
rougher and more decisive counterpart, "Och Aye."
(must add an apology here, to archy, for all the commas and whatnots. The
little blighters find their way into my writing whether I want them to or not.)
Yours at length (and also in brief)
Corky
Bill Riepl
>Yours at length (and also in brief)
>Corky
I say, Corky, old thing! Briefs or Boxers, either way, that's getting a
touch Continental, don't you know! Bit of the Folliés..... Starts with a
B..... Birdhouse? Basingstoke? Whatever. Not at all done, you know, not
cricket, eh, what?
Yes, yes, I know, they do keep telling me it's a new, enlightened age, but
frankly, I think it's all poppycock. Bergier! That's it! Knew it started
with a B! Some things are just simply not on, and discussion of one's
undergarments is one of those things. Sorry, Spode, old chap, I know it's
your life's work and all, but still.....
Pip, pip,
Dawlish
ian cockburn
It is much less decisive and bold. I've heard it said many times, especially
at school in Shropshire.
"Oh ah." = "I accept what you're saying, not that it interests me much."
"Oh ah?" = "oh really? I suppose i'll have to take your word for it."
"Oh ah!" = "of course, how silly of me not to have known. Still, lets not
make a deal out of it, what?"
As Lord Emsworth is the principal Wodehouse character to use this
expression, perhaps it's primarily part of the Shropshire rural dialect that
Lord Emsworth has picked up from mingling with his lower gardening staff.
Mustard
(shamefaced at never having read his relative Sarah Caudwell's stuff)
Duncan Snowden
> Probably been covered to death on here but are there any novelists in
> the last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as
> Wodehouse?
I was going to start a new thread with this, but I think it's
appropriate to this one...
I've been re-reading Jonathan Lynn and Anthony Jay's "Yes, Minister",
and it struck me how close to Wodehouse it is, with Sir Humphrey as a
kind of "anti-Jeeves" to Hacker's Wooster. I'm not sure how widely
available it is outside the UK, being as it is an adaptation of a BBC
series (excellently done, though - it stands on its own very well), but
it's worth a read if you can get hold of it.
--
Duncan Snowden.
Duncan Snowden
> "oh, ah", has nothing to do with "och, aye."
Oh aye?
> "Oh ah." = "I accept what you're saying, not that it interests me
> much."
Oh aye... "Oh, aye".
> "Oh ah?" = "oh really? I suppose i'll have to take your word for it."
Oh aye? "Oh aye?"?
> "Oh ah!" = "of course, how silly of me not to have known. Still, lets
> not make a deal out of it, what?"
Och aye! "Och aye!"
--
Duncan Snowden.
david
Try Henry Cecil - Brothers in law, etc. He's very good. Different than the
Master, but a similar appreciation for words.
Likewise Ephraim Kishon, noted Israeli humorist.
Both are totally different than the master, but all three are masters of
language.
Adrian Mulliner
Jack Daly <jdd...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.10.100110...@localhost.localdomain...
> Probably been covered to death on here but are there any novelists in the
> last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as Wodehouse? I've
> had a hard time finding any, the Amis'es, while entertaining, are more in
> the vicious style of Evelyn Waugh, and more transparently "serious
literature," whatever that is.
> And while I like Tom Sharpe, I find the first half of his books are
> invariably miles better than the finish. Just an opinion.
>
> Only one I found is Joe Keenan, who is American and wrote two hilarious
> novels before he got mixed up in television, working on Frasie I believe.
The
> books are present-day, and have to do with a light comedy
> librettist/lyricist (if I'm remembering rightly) and his picaresque
> adventures in New York mostly caused by his neer-do-well best friend.
> The two main characters happen to be gay, and to my shame I put off
> buying the books because I feared they might be too insular or some-such
> tosh. When I picked one up cheap at a booksale I devoured it in a day and
was dismayed
> to learn that he only has the two books.
>
Bill Deeck
Prime Minister." And there are those who might enjoy the "The Henry Root
Letters," the further letters, and "Root Into Europe."
Constable Eustace Oates, upon whom cheerfulness keeps breaking in despite
the ever-present miasma of gloom and doom
"Duncan Snowden" <dun...@snowden.abelgratis.com> wrote in message
news:Yam2NN.AmigaOS.7...@ppp-1-149.cvx6.telinco.net...
> On Thursday, Jack Daly wrote:
>
> > Probably been covered to death on here but are there any novelists in
> > the last 30 years or so who are somewhat in the same vein as
> > Wodehouse?
>
LadyMacBec
all I have to say is,
och, Duncan, ye stand abooove the rest.
dotingly,
Corky McHaddock
>
Ian Michaud
> "Yes Minister" had a huge following here in Australia and is currently being
> repeated on the ABC. It fact it has been repeated almost every year since
> the series was made. I think that even Jeeves would find Sir Humphrey a
> little trying.
>
> Pillingshot
Yes, and it's still being shown every night on a Canadian cable station in a
90-minute time block of British chestnuts beginning at 11 p.m. with the dreadful
'Are You Being Served?' followed by the adventures of the Bucket Family and
concluding with Yes, Minister/Yes, Prime Minister.
Does anyone remember the old 'Hancock's Half Hour', a show that was almost
Ukridgean in its concept?
The Mixer
Duncan Snowden
> "Yes Minister" had a huge following here in Australia and is currently
> being repeated on the ABC. It fact it has been repeated almost every
> year since the series was made.
That's more than it has here. I can't remember the last time the BBC
showed it - probably a single episode when Paul Eddington passed away.
I'm not surprised at its popularity down under; despite being on the
other side of the world, the cultural ties are still pretty close, I
think. I'm not too sure how well it went down in the US, though.
Genuinely unsure - it strikes me as the sort of thing they'd take to
with gusto, like Python for example - in which case, I think I would
have noticed - or that they simply wouldn't "get" at all. The satirical
side of it would seem to be pretty universal, but the cultural
references might well go straight over their heads.
--
Duncan Snowden.
charles stone-tolcher
placed the emphisis. For example it was a common children's expression when
person 'A' did something wrong or broke something. Person 'B' might say
something like "Oh, ahhh." (pronounced ooo...rrrr.) Then of course the
term can be used to express indecision. The person 'A', in trying to think
of a suitable excuse may say: "oh....Ah...er" or something like that. This I
susperct is the case with Lord Emsworth when he is trying to either think of
a suitable reply to a direct question or trying to change the subject.
Pillingshot
"ian cockburn" <i...@dishes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8upq81$abc$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> "oh, ah", has nothing to do with "och, aye."
> It is much less decisive and bold. I've heard it said many times,
especially
> at school in Shropshire.
> "Oh ah." = "I accept what you're saying, not that it interests me much."
> "Oh ah?" = "oh really? I suppose i'll have to take your word for it."
> "Oh ah!" = "of course, how silly of me not to have known. Still, lets not
> make a deal out of it, what?"
>
charles stone-tolcher
"Yes Minister" had a huge following here in Australia and is currently being
repeated on the ABC. It fact it has been repeated almost every year since
the series was made. I think that even Jeeves would find Sir Humphrey a
little trying.
Pillingshot
Duncan Snowden
>> On Monday, ian cockburn wrote:
>>
>>> "oh, ah", has nothing to do with "och, aye."
>>
>> Oh aye?
>>
>>> "Oh ah." = "I accept what you're saying, not that it interests me
>>> much."
>>
>> Oh aye... "Oh, aye".
>>
>> "Oh ah?" = "oh really? I suppose i'll have to take your word for
>> it."
>>
>> Oh aye? "Oh aye?"?
>>
>> "Oh ah!" = "of course, how silly of me not to have known. Still,
>> lets not make a deal out of it, what?"
>>
>> Och aye! "Och aye!"
>>
> all I have to say is,
> och, Duncan, ye stand abooove the rest.
One endeavours to provide satisfaction.
--
Duncan Snowden.
Duncan Snowden
> Does anyone remember the old 'Hancock's Half Hour', a show that was
> almost Ukridgean in its concept?
Tony Hancock's a British comedy legend. As are the writers of the "Half
Hour", Galton and Simpson - between them, they pretty much invented the
sitcom as far as Britain's concerned.
--
Duncan Snowden.
charles stone-tolcher
Woods" on tape. I think it is the Sid James character that is like Ukridge.
Pillingshot
"Ian Michaud" <ian_m...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3A11BA0E...@bc.sympatico.ca...
> charles stone-tolcher wrote:
>
> > "Yes Minister" had a huge following here in Australia and is currently
being
> > repeated on the ABC. It fact it has been repeated almost every year
since
> > the series was made. I think that even Jeeves would find Sir Humphrey a
> > little trying.
> >
> > Pillingshot
>
> Yes, and it's still being shown every night on a Canadian cable station in
a
> 90-minute time block of British chestnuts beginning at 11 p.m. with the
dreadful
> 'Are You Being Served?' followed by the adventures of the Bucket Family
and
> concluding with Yes, Minister/Yes, Prime Minister.
>
> Does anyone remember the old 'Hancock's Half Hour', a show that was almost
> Ukridgean in its concept?
>
> The Mixer
>
Kurt & Nancy Harris
> I would second this recommendation, and also the following volume, "Yes,
> Prime Minister." And there are those who might enjoy the "The Henry Root
> Letters," the further letters, and "Root Into Europe."
I do love British comedies and sitcoms, but for some reason had never seen
Yes, Prime Minister until I checked some episodes out of our local library
here in Singapore. My whole family enjoyed the ones we saw and I'd love to
see more.
As to whether they'd go over in America, I'm sure they've found their niche,
but will never have mass appeal there. As popular as Monty Python was and
is, it never really made it out of the "cult following" level of popularity,
in my opinion. Mr. Bean, I believe, has more universal appeal and most
Americans can laugh at that, although some just say it's too silly and seem
to be embarrassed for liking something so simple in its concept.
the pink chap
Bill Riepl
>As popular as Monty Python was and
>is, it never really made it out of the "cult following" level of
popularity,
>in my opinion.
And I suppose I would be expelled from the group for suggesting a secret
passion for the Black Adder series? Forced to stand at attention in a hollow
square of all you folks whilst my keyboard buttons are pulled off one by
one? A small price to pay, I just can't pass up seeing Atkinson acting as
cynical and sarcastic as I feel most days......
Dawlish
The Mad Hatter
I also happen to like the Blackadder series-at least the last series,
Blackadder Goes Forth, I'm not as familiar with the rest of them.
Until next time, I am...
Only a Factory Girl
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amanda Suzanne DeMeola
Mount Holyoke College
asde...@mtholyoke.edu
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~asdemeol/
"I always strive, when I can, to spread sweetness and light. There have
been several complaints about it."
-PG Wodehouse, "Service with a Smile"
NSH
> Kurt & Nancy Harris wrote in message <8uvo1p$rvv$1...@mango.singnet.com.sg>...
> >As popular as Monty Python was and
> >is, it never really made it out of the "cult following" level of
> popularity,
> >in my opinion.
>
> And I suppose I would be expelled from the group for suggesting a secret
> passion for the Black Adder series? Forced to stand at attention in a hollow
> square of all you folks whilst my keyboard buttons are pulled off one by
> one? A small price to pay, I just can't pass up seeing Atkinson acting as
> cynical and sarcastic as I feel most days......
>
> Dawlish
Not at all Rowan Atkinson is dead brilliant.
Nance
Augustus Fink-Nottle
>And I suppose I would be expelled from the group for suggesting a secret
>passion for the Black Adder series? Forced to stand at attention in a hollow
>square of all you folks whilst my keyboard buttons are pulled off one by
>one? A small price to pay, I just can't pass up seeing Atkinson acting as
>cynical and sarcastic as I feel most days......
>
>Dawlish
Dawlish, have you been eating dung again?
cunningly,
Blackadder
Duncan Snowden
> I also happen to like the Blackadder series-at least the last series,
> Blackadder Goes Forth, I'm not as familiar with the rest of them.
The final episode really is a work of genius. I'd recommend the second
series, set in Elizabethan times; that's the one that really made its
name.
--
Duncan Snowden.
Bill Riepl
>> Blackadder Goes Forth, I'm not as familiar with the rest of them.
By all means, the second and third are simply must haves, if you prefer the
deeply sarcastic nature of Edmund. I admit to a preference for the third
series, set in Regency times. It's the only one in which the poor blighter
avoids getting snuffed at the end. Instead the Hugh Laurie gets it. Amazing,
but even dressed as the Prince, I still can't help seeing him as Bertie.
Anyway, I'm quite glad to know I won't be summarily dismissed for a
prediliction towards Black Adder. Not a day goes by I'm not sorely tempted
to use my favorite line on someone at work.
"For you Baldric, the Rennaissance is just something that happened to other
people"
Problem is, at my office, I would get bogged down in a long explaination of
just what the Rennaissance was, and why it would be considered bad to have
missed out on it. Probably not worth the trouble.....
Dawlish
charles stone-tolcher
Of course the Americans (bless their souls) have a peculiar habit of taking
sound English sitcoms and adapting them for their own market. I mean to say
look at the way they recreated Steptoe and Son (Samford and Son in the US),
Man about the House and Men Behaving Badly. The humour in these shows was
completely lost with the American adaptions. Dash it all, I am even
informed, by reliable sources i'll have you know, that even a sitcom like
'Friends' manages a high rating over there. I say, not to put too fine a
point on it, and not to cast aspersions on our cousins across the water,
how could Yes Minister/Prime Minister be Americanised. The mind boggles.
Pillingshot
"Kurt & Nancy Harris" <har...@singnet.com.sg> wrote in message
news:8uvo1p$rvv$1...@mango.singnet.com.sg...
Emerald Stoker
Adder and am looking forward to tonight's episode of Black Adder Goes
Forth. And as someone said, I can't help not thinking of Bertie when I
see Hugh Laurie in action in Black Adder.
Emerald Stoker
> And I suppose I would be expelled from the group for suggesting a
secret
> passion for the Black Adder series? Forced to stand at attention in a
hollow
> square of all you folks whilst my keyboard buttons are pulled off one
by
> one? A small price to pay, I just can't pass up seeing Atkinson
acting as
> cynical and sarcastic as I feel most days......
>
> Dawlish
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Kurt & Nancy Harris
taking
> sound English sitcoms and adapting them for their own market. I mean to
say
> look at the way they recreated Steptoe and Son (Samford and Son in the
US),
> Man about the House and Men Behaving Badly. The humour in these shows was
> completely lost with the American adaptions.
I believe my all-time favorite British fare was Fawlty Towers. I once heard
a colleague comment about that show saying something like, "Yes, Fawlty
Towers was much better than the Americanized version." I gave voice to the
puzzled expression on my face and it turns out that she had always
considered "The Newhart Show" an American adaptation of Fawlty Towers. Other
than the fact that the main characters in both shows run hotels or inns, I
don't see the connection and seriously doubt that Newhart was modeled on
Fawlty.
the pink chap
Bianchi
Greetings : England had some kind of review as to the most popular tv show of
all time and "Fawlty Towers" came out well in front. One of the reasons that I
know my son, Galahad as a Young Man has good stuff in him is that he reads
Wodehouse and enjoys Fawlty Towers. Of course he is or was a fan of Benny Hill
as well. Lady Constance
as
> completely lost with the American adaptions.
I believe my all-time favorite British fare was Fawlty Towers. I once heard
a colleague comment about that show saying something like, "Yes, Fawlty
Towers was much better than the Americanized version." I gave voice to the
puzzled expression on my face and it turns out that she had always
considered "The Newhart Show" an American adaptation of Fawlty Towers. Other
than the fact that the main characters in both shows run hotels or inns, I
don't see the connection and seriously doubt that Newhart was modeled on
Fawlty.
the pink chap
"..Greetings from Blandings on the Bayooo.."
Neil Midkiff
>
> I believe my all-time favorite British fare was Fawlty Towers. I once heard
> a colleague comment about that show saying something like, "Yes, Fawlty
> Towers was much better than the Americanized version." I gave voice to the
> puzzled expression on my face and it turns out that she had always
> considered "The Newhart Show" an American adaptation of Fawlty Towers. Other
> than the fact that the main characters in both shows run hotels or inns, I
> don't see the connection and seriously doubt that Newhart was modeled on
> Fawlty.
>
> the pink chap
Actually there was an American TV series modeled quite blatantly on
Fawlty Towers. It lasted only one season (1999), or maybe just part of it;
I know I only saw one episode. It was called "Payne" and starred
John Larroquette as the hotel-owner. To give you some idea of the level
of humor, his character was named "Royal Payne."
-Neil Midkiff
The Mixer
>
> Actually there was an American TV series modeled quite blatantly on
> Fawlty Towers. It lasted only one season (1999), or maybe just part of it;
> I know I only saw one episode. It was called "Payne" and starred
> John Larroquette as the hotel-owner. To give you some idea of the level
> of humor, his character was named "Royal Payne."
>
> -Neil Midkiff
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there was also an earlier American Fawlty
Towers rip-off with Beatrice Arthur as a surly innkeeper. I can't say I caught
any of the episodes of either of the U.S. shows, both of which sunk without trace
with a quickness that almost deceived the eye.
The Mixer
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Both of these correspondents are correct. The Beatrice Arthur version aired in
the 1983 season; it was called "Amanda's".
I never saw "Amanda's" but I having suffered through most of one episode of
"Payne" I can testify that never was a sitcom more aptly named.
Mortimer Rackstraw, the Great Boloni
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
fr...@aol.com
http://hometown.aol.com/frajm/default.htm
"All over the room throats were being strained and minds broadened."
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
[deletions]
>One endeavours to provide satisfaction.
>
>--
>Duncan Snowden.
>
"Quit talking like Jeeves."
bill walsh
"Adrian Mole: The Cappucino Years" by Sue Townshend (pardon if I've
misspelled her name--the book's still packed somewhere). A very funny
piece of writing, and (I take it from the author's bio) one of a
series--Mr. Mole's alleged journals from the time of his 13 1/4 years.
Very much worth seeking out.
Horace Appleby
Master Criminal
charles stone-tolcher
There were of course two previous Adrian Mole books: "The Diary of Adrain
Mole" and "The Growing Pains of Adrian Mole". These were made into a most
excellent TV series a few years back.
Pillingshot
"bill walsh" <ott...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ottoman-2111...@pool-63.49.195.238.troy.grid.net...
Augustus Fink-Nottle
>Appleby my man,
>There were of course two previous Adrian Mole books: "The Diary of Adrain
>Mole" and "The Growing Pains of Adrian Mole". These were made into a most
>excellent TV series a few years back.
>Pillingshot
Hmm. I seem to have been giving this Adrian Mole a wide berth. Is this
Mole, perchance, a character along the lines of Nigel Molesworth?
Sounds similar, but with better spelling. Molesworth would have called
them his growing panes.
curious,
Gussie
Piccadilly Jim
(at least, in the US) when top hole shows like "The Fall and Rise of
Reginald Perrin", not to mention "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime
Minister", are so hard to find?
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:17:51 -0800, Ian Michaud
<ian_m...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Yes, and it's still being shown every night on a Canadian cable station in a
>90-minute time block of British chestnuts beginning at 11 p.m. with the dreadful
>'Are You Being Served?'
Piccadilly Jim
Piccadilly Jim
dark side? I have to say I think he's great!
Pic. Jim
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 06:30:05 +1000, "charles stone-tolcher"
<csto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>Duncan,
>
>"Yes Minister" had a huge following here in Australia and is currently being
>repeated on the ABC. It fact it has been repeated almost every year since
>the series was made. I think that even Jeeves would find Sir Humphrey a
>little trying.
>
>Pillingshot
>
Piccadilly Jim
Duncan Snowden
> Why oh why is this "Are you being served?" bilge so widely syndicated
> (at least, in the US) when top hole shows like "The Fall and Rise of
> Reginald Perrin", not to mention "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime
> Minister", are so hard to find?
It has a "cult following", apparently. I find this usually means that a
bunch of smart-alecks think they're being terribly clever by pretending
to enjoy it.
--
Duncan Snowden.
Augustus Fink-Nottle
Well, it is somewhat funny the first time you see it, I guess. I remember
first watching Are You Being Served in the early 80's and was endlessly amused
by Captain Peacock and (considering my age then) Miss Brahms. It's base
humour, but still miles above most things on the telly here. Friends, faugh!
I admit I can't bear to see the show anymore - but thats only because PBS
has run it into the ground, showing each episode a hundred times over, year
after year after year after year. It's maddening alright, but I'm not sure the
show is the solitary bearer of blame.
There are so many good Britcoms - even the old ones like "To The Manor Born"
(anyone remember that?) would be a great relief. Though I think that "Yes,
Minister" and "Yes PM", excellent as they are, would never go down well in the
US because America, in general, is too earnest about its politics and lacks
a keen sense of political black humour. Case in point - William Hague, the
leader of the opposition in England boasted about drinking 16 pints of beer
and it led to all sorts of funny challenges and reporting. Tony Blair's son
barfed all over Leicester Square and gave the police a false name and that too
caused a lot of hilarity, whereas in the US, a politician drinking a fraction
of that and being stopped by the police 25 years ago caused the talking heads
on the telly to put up poker faces and "Breaking News" banners. Needless to
say, there will never be a "Yes, President" series here. America doesn't have
an appetite for that kind of self-deprecating, politically incorrect,
political humour.
just my 'umble opinion,
Gussie
LadyMacBec
I am terribly bucked that someone brought up "to the manor born." I was too shy
to mention it...but I've got it on tape, and find it endlessly charming. well,
maybe not endlessly, I mean, a television show is a television show, but it's
rather -um, to use an offensive American term-"cute."
I find you all have been busy being terribly clever while I've been away,
throwing around Latin terms for "chinless nincompoop" and all that sort of rot.
I shall retire, stroking my jaw in a thoughtful sort of manner, in the hopes
that I merely look like The Intellectual In The Corner Who Has a Lot to Say On
the Subject But Wants to Encourage Others to Use Their Noggins and So Retains a
Brainy But Supportive Silence.
pip pip from the corner,
Corky
The Mixer
> Though I think that "Yes,
> Minister" and "Yes PM", excellent as they are, would never go down well in the
> US because America, in general, is too earnest about its politics and lacks
> a keen sense of political black humour. Case in point - William Hague, the
> leader of the opposition in England boasted about drinking 16 pints of beer
> and it led to all sorts of funny challenges and reporting. Tony Blair's son
> barfed all over Leicester Square and gave the police a false name and that too
> caused a lot of hilarity, whereas in the US, a politician drinking a fraction
> of that and being stopped by the police 25 years ago caused the talking heads
> on the telly to put up poker faces and "Breaking News" banners. Needless to
> say, there will never be a "Yes, President" series here. America doesn't have
> an appetite for that kind of self-deprecating, politically incorrect,
> political humour.
On the other hand, Gussie, the Americans have produced popular TV sit-coms about
aids keeping feckless Mayors (Spin City) and half-witted state Governors (Benson)
out of trouble. As regards your point about young Master Blair's recent spot of
bother, it's not that many years ago that the Americans had great fun laughing at
President Carter's younger brother (remember 'Billy Beer'?) and their equally
eccentric mother.
Although come to think of it, Mr Carter was a one-term president wasn't he?
Maybe that proves your point after all.
The Mixer, looking forward to today's Canadian general election full of confidence
that (if I caught the term correctly) 'pimpled chaps', sometimes known as
'Prossers' won't decide the outcome. We still use a pencil to mark an 'X' next
to our favoured name.
charles stone-tolcher
It is many years since I have seen The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin and
The Return of Reginald Perrin. You are quite right of course in your praise
of this fine piece of humour. Only last month I purchased the Reginald
Perrin Omnibus from A Common Reader in New York. If you want to get hold of
this book look this store up. I forget the URL off hand but if you want it
just let me know.
Pillingshot
"Piccadilly Jim" <jpro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3a215ff0...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> Why oh why is this "Are you being served?" bilge so widely syndicated
> (at least, in the US) when top hole shows like "The Fall and Rise of
> Reginald Perrin", not to mention "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime
> Minister", are so hard to find?
>
Piccadilly Jim
(Augustus Fink-Nottle) wrote:
>
>There are so many good Britcoms - even the old ones like "To The Manor Born"
>(anyone remember that?)
One of my favorites. I believe I have every episode, bar the
premiere, on tape.
would be a great relief. Though I think that "Yes,
>Minister" and "Yes PM", excellent as they are, would never go down well in the
>US because America, in general, is too earnest about its politics and lacks
>a keen sense of political black humour. Case in point - William Hague, the
>leader of the opposition in England boasted about drinking 16 pints of beer
>and it led to all sorts of funny challenges and reporting. Tony Blair's son
>barfed all over Leicester Square and gave the police a false name and that too
>caused a lot of hilarity, whereas in the US, a politician drinking a fraction
>of that and being stopped by the police 25 years ago caused the talking heads
>on the telly to put up poker faces and "Breaking News" banners. Needless to
>say, there will never be a "Yes, President" series here. America doesn't have
>an appetite for that kind of self-deprecating, politically incorrect,
>political humour.
Ah, Gussie! I fear what you say is true.
Piccadilly Jim
Piccadilly Jim
instanter and place it on my Christmas list. Thanks a bunch. I owe
you a ginger beer in the school shop.
Pic. Jim
charles stone-tolcher
The address is: A Common Reader, 141 Tompkins Ave, Pleasantville New York
10570-3154. Phone 1-800-7323. If you want the web address let me know and I
will get it off my favourites list. nb I also purchased my copy of "Bring on
the Girls" by Wodehouse and Bolton from them.
Pillingshot
"Piccadilly Jim" <jpro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3a227ec7...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
Algy Little
Slocombe at Wembley. Recognized the purple 'air.
She was wearing a bloody Manchester United jacket. Well, I say!
GO ARSENAL!!