John Deere 2130 ... when you check one thing ... that leads to another ...
Glen Sounness
Lets ask a question ...
When the starter motor is tested fine by the local electrician, and the
batteries have been all tested fine (and one replaced to make doubly-y sure)
... and when you reconnect all the nice electrical wiring together ... the
machine just won't go.
When you start to check things, having your chair-ridden family expert
sitting there as well shouting advice like 'the bas*ards sold you a dead
battery' and 'put your shoulder to it and push start the bi*ch' you find
that the alternator/starter motor smokes from the terminal after you try to
start it for a couple of minutes .... then you try to prime the petrol pump
.. as you do cos it is caked in oil and grease ... as it always is ... and
cos your chair ridden family expert is shouting at how stupid you are at not
finding the little thing caked in oil and grease ... you pull out the
dip-stick to find it is full to the bursting point of cluggy black oil.
When you check the dipstick measure - whoa ... you are way over the limit
... and the decision is to drain out the oil ... as decisions go this is
fairly easy (insert 30 minutes of family expert waving walking stick and
suggesting claw hammer to clean out the sump oil bolt when you cannot find
an appropriate adjustable wrench) a gush of around 7 litres of water comes
out of the engine sump, before being followed by 6 litres of oil.
Hmm ... family member is silent ... suggests that things are F*ked and goes
back to shouting at rugby players.
Radiator is still full-ish.
Oil last changed around 700 hours ago.
Engine Oil and Hydraulics' separate oils.
Water seems to have come from no-where.
--- --- --- QUESTION --- --- ---
How much of a complete overall does this sound like?
Water Pump Failure to spit the water into the engine.
How much oil is required to be displaced by Water before the engine is
no-longer able to operate?
Thanks in advance
An Australian new to Tractors
Huw
"Glen Sounness" <soun...@comswest.net.au> wrote in message
news:3fae...@usenet.per.paradox.net.au...
700 hours! In how many years? Lack of regular service leads to failure
and high costs.
>
> Engine Oil and Hydraulics' separate oils.
>
> Water seems to have come from no-where.
>
> --- --- --- QUESTION --- --- ---
> How much of a complete overall does this sound like?
A lot if you use genuine parts. If starter is smoking from terminals,
it does sound like either your engine is seized, and from the sound of
it, it would be a miracle if it is not, or the terminals are not sound
and tight.
> Water Pump Failure to spit the water into the engine.
Nope.
> How much oil is required to be displaced by Water before the engine
is
> no-longer able to operate?
NO water should be in the oil, certainly not litres of the stuff. It
is probably going in via exhaust or filler or some other external hole
since the radiaror water level seems fine.
Huw
>
> Thanks in advance
> An Australian new to Tractors
>
>
---
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Ed C.
what the problem is, cuz if water is entering through the exhaust, and you
install a rebuilt engine without covering the exhaust...
1. Is the engine turning over, or is the starter just "making clicking
sounds?
2. Oil floats on water, NO water is acceptable in the engine oil. If there
is water in the oil, then it settles to the bottom, and the oil pump sucks
the water from the bottom and tries to lubricate the engine with the water,
then you have big problems (seizure).
"Glen Sounness" <soun...@comswest.net.au> wrote in message
news:3fae...@usenet.per.paradox.net.au...
Glen Sounness
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed C." <ed.anonymo...@verizon.com>
> Before you send the engine out for total rebuild, you need to figure out
> what the problem is, cuz if water is entering through the exhaust, and you
> install a rebuilt engine without covering the exhaust...
> 1. Is the engine turning over, or is the starter just "making clicking
> sounds?
> 2. Oil floats on water, NO water is acceptable in the engine oil. If there
> is water in the oil, then it settles to the bottom, and the oil pump sucks
> the water from the bottom and tries to lubricate the engine with the
water,
> then you have big problems (seizure).
1) Engine is turning over - I think the smoke on the terminals is the high
resistance of the motor trying to turn over in a complete bath of oil,
instead of just a crank-case lubrication level of oil. (could be wrong
though)
2) Oil did definitely float on water.. The first bucket and a half of oil
came from the bottom of the sump, followed by a bucket and a quarter of oil.
As suggested by "Huw", the water may have come in from the exhaust. ( I did
not know it could do that - that's probably why tractors are stored under
cover during winter rather than outside the rear door as my elderly family
member did prior to winter starting.)
It was a saturating wet winter here. Now it is moving into summer, and
fire season is just around the corner, I want to make sure that the fire
tender can be pulled around by the tractor - hence the checking around and
examination of the unit. (Water wanted in Tender, not in sump ...)
Dumb Questions ....
1) Do you think that the unit can be started again once the oil change has
been done?
2) Should I ask a mechanic to come in an pull things apart because there is
a very very high likelihood that the machine is going to damage itself more
if I were to start it up and attempt repairs. (i.e. - is water in sump oil
a critical problem)
if I were to start the unit ...
3) Should I try to drain the oil pump (have to look at the manual for that
bit of fun) prior to starting it or should I just crank it to see what
happens.
If I complete the change in the oil ...
4) Should I crank it briefly just to try to get ignition after the oil
change, then re-change the oil again to take out any water that may have
been shaken loose.
Suggestions gratefully received.
Thomas Glen
Australia
(Farm in limbo due to litigation hence the tractor just sitting around for
ages)
Glen Sounness
Thomas Glen
Huw
> Questions below ... and thanks for the comments so far.
>
> Thomas Glen
>
>
> 1) Do you think that the unit can be started again once the oil
change has
> been done?
Dunno. Can't see it from here :-) You're right about the type of
question though LOL.
>
> 2) Should I ask a mechanic to come in an pull things apart because
there is
> a very very high likelihood that the machine is going to damage
itself more
> if I were to start it up and attempt repairs. (i.e. - is water in
sump oil
> a critical problem)
The consequences of water in the sump can be serious. Not least of
these is corrosion.
>
> if I were to start the unit ...
>
> 3) Should I try to drain the oil pump (have to look at the manual
for that
> bit of fun) prior to starting it or should I just crank it to see
what
> happens.
Crank it and see. You may be wise to change the oil more than once.
Maybe fill with diesel and run for a minute or two before first fill
with clean oil. I would initially use a 50/50 mix of oil and diesel to
flush the shit out.
>
> If I complete the change in the oil ...
>
> 4) Should I crank it briefly just to try to get ignition after the
oil
> change, then re-change the oil again to take out any water that may
have
> been shaken loose.
>
> Suggestions gratefully received.
See above.
>
> Thomas Glen
> Australia
> (Farm in limbo due to litigation hence the tractor just sitting
around for
> ages)
>
>
>
No liability is accepted for any advise given. You use the engine
completely at your own risk and no litigation on this subject or any
other, whether related or not, will apportion liability or damages
upon the giver of above advice.
Huw
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Ed C.
crankcase. If flushing is a consideration, then use a lighter weight oil
(5W30, 5W20) and change the oil more frequently (every five operating hours)
while the oil is hot. Diesel fuel will NOT lubricate the engine - long term
damage to contact surfaces may occur!!
1. If you decide to start the engine, try to turn it over by hand one
complete revolution before engaging the starter. The starter may bend/break
something.
2. Do not disassemble unless you know that an internal problem exists. (If
it ain't broke, don't fix it)
3. If the engine rotates by hand, then chances are the oil pump is ok. A
greater concern to me is the condition of the crankshaft bearings.
The questions are only dumb if you do not ask them. I do like this from Huw
and believe in it: No liability is accepted for any advice given. You use
the engine completely at your own risk and no litigation on this subject or
any other, whether related or not, will apportion liability or damages upon
the provider of above advice.
Ed C.
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3fb13...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
Huw
"Ed C." <ed.anonymo...@verizon.com> wrote in message
news:%0bsb.13641$hB5....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> I respectfully disagree with Huw. Do NOT use any diesel fuel in the
> crankcase. If flushing is a consideration, then use a lighter weight
oil
> (5W30, 5W20) and change the oil more frequently (every five
operating hours)
> while the oil is hot. Diesel fuel will NOT lubricate the engine -
long term
> damage to contact surfaces may occur!!
It is not meant to lubricate but to clean. The idea of using a 50/50
mix with oil is to provide extra lubrication. In any case it should
not be run more than two to five minutes at fast idle with no load
with this mix in the sump. No adverse effect will be manifest.
>
> 1. If you decide to start the engine, try to turn it over by hand
one
> complete revolution before engaging the starter. The starter may
bend/break
> something.
>
Good advice. I guess this is a petrol engined tractor? This engine, if
indeed it is petrol, was never available here.
> 2. Do not disassemble unless you know that an internal problem
exists. (If
> it ain't broke, don't fix it)
>
> 3. If the engine rotates by hand, then chances are the oil pump is
ok. A
> greater concern to me is the condition of the crankshaft bearings.
Corrosion is more likely with each day now that I presume it has been
turned and water is in the galleries and bearings.
Huw
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