Tom Waits Article
Tyler D.
you (who DO know him) probably don't like him, but I am posting this
anyway, because it's such a great interview.
http://www.theonionavclub.com/avclub3820/avfeature_3820.html
Tom Waits was born on Dec. 7, 1949, in the back of a truck (or a taxi,
depending on which account, if any, is to believed) in the Los Angeles
suburb of Pomona. True or not, it's an appropriate origin for a man
whose music contains so much transience and questionable sanitary
conditions. Waits began performing Beat-inspired songs in clubs around
the time he reached legal drinking age, though his gravelly voice
seemed incongruous with his youth. Experience and albums followed, as
he became a sort of hipster outsider cousin to the '70s California
music scene. After meeting frequent collaborator Kathleen Brennan, who
eventually became his wife, Waits adopted a more experimental approach
only suggested by his previous work. His cluttered, clamoring new
style, first fully developed on 1983's Swordfishtrombones, led him to
a new audience and a new label. Around the same time, Waits began
curbing the lifestyle detailed in his gutter-trolling songs, tried his
hand at acting, and found new collaborators, most notably director Jim
Jarmusch and Robert Wilson, a longtime fixture of avant-garde theater.
After a six-year silence following 1993's The Black Rider, Waits
returned with Mule Variations, then disappeared again. From a
carefully guarded location somewhere in rural California, Waits spoke
to The Onion A.V. Club shortly after the simultaneous May release of
Alice and Blood Money, both soundtracks to Wilson works.
The Onion: When you do theatrical projects, do you worry at all about
them translating to albums?
Tom Waits: Gee, I don't know. What do you think? How did it go? I
don't think it really matters much. I mean, by the time it's a record,
it's just a record. It either works in that way or it doesn't. I don't
think the backstory really dignifies anything, or solves any problems
that you tried to solve during the recording. "Oh, this is all based
on the John Wilkes Booth story, and that third song is when he was
trapped in the barn." I mean, I could tell you anything. "Helen Keller
made an appearance in the last tune, and it's sung by her mother."
"Oh, okay." Your mind will make sense of anything. The fact that Blood
Money is about Woyzeck... I didn't know anything about Woyzeck.
Kathleen knew more than I, but I didn't really know the story or
anything. I was just told the story in a coffee shop in Boston over
eggs a few years ago. You try to create some sort of counterpoint for
this story, but you're still dealing with song logic. When people
listen to songs, they're not... It's like a form of hypnotism that
goes on during the listening process, so you're taking it up through a
straw. It's like a separate little world in the world. You go in there
and then you pop back out. Those musicals always sound so corny when
somebody stops and thinks of something and goes back to life.
O: You've said before that the stories behind songs are less
interesting than the songs themselves. Have you ever written a song
where the opposite was true?
"Most songs have meager beginnings. You wake up in the morning, you
throw on your suspenders, and you subvocalize and just think."
TW: Oh, gee. I don't know. Most songs have meager beginnings. You wake
up in the morning, you throw on your suspenders, and you subvocalize
and just think. They seem to form like calcium. I can't think of a
story right off the bat that was that interesting. I write things on
the back of my hand, usually, and sing into a tape recorder. I don't
know.
O: Many of your albums are filled with references to sailors and the
sea. Do you think there's a reason for that, beyond growing up in San
Diego?
TW: I think all songs should have weather in them. Names of towns and
streets, and they should have a couple of sailors. I think those are
just song prerequisites. [Laughs.]
O: For yours, or for all songs?
TW: Oh, all songs. Most of them fail miserably. I go looking in other
people's songs for their sailors and their towns. I don't know,
everybody has things that they gravitate towards. Some people put toy
cars or clouds or cat crap. Everybody puts something different, and
it's entirely up to you what belongs and what doesn't. They're
interesting little vessels of emotional information, and you carry
them in your pocket like a bagel.
O: When Mule Variations came out, it seemed like the first question
most people had for you was, "What took you so long?" Does that annoy
you?
TW: Well, I submitted myself to the questions, so it's hard to be
annoyed. But, yeah, when people want to know what you've been up to,
how can you possibly explain to a stranger what you've been doing for
seven years? Would they truly be interested? [Laughs.]
O: It seems artists with a devoted following are under pressure to
turn out albums regularly. Does that pressure ever get to you?
TW: Not really. It's not like I'm one of those expensive, high-powered
pop groups on the road eight months out of the year, talking to Teen
Beat. I finally discovered that my life is more important than show
business. But, yeah, people are curious about all kinds of things,
which takes your mind off that which is really important. They usually
ask questions about things that don't matter—to them, or to me, or to
anybody else. Just to take up time, I guess, and distract them from
the important questions, like "Who won the World Series in 1957?" or
"Who said, 'Today you will play jazz, tomorrow you will betray your
country'?"
O: Is there an answer to that one?
TW: It was on a Soviet propaganda poster in the '30s. Did you know
that honey is the only food that won't spoil? They found it in King
Tut's tomb. Jars of honey. They said it was just as fresh as it was on
the first day.
O: Did they actually try it?
TW: They tried it, yeah. Wouldn't you? If you found a jar of honey in
a thousands-of-years-old tomb, would you put your finger into it and
taste it?
O: So, why did it take you so long to record the songs on Alice?
TW: The songs were written around '92 or '93, 'round in there. It was
done with Robert Wilson in Germany. We stuck 'em in a box and just
left 'em there for a while. They were aging like the honey. And we
locked in the freshness. They were hermetically sealed. You move on to
other things, you know? And then you go back and say, "Well, this was
okay."
O: It was kind of developing a reputation as the great lost Tom Waits
album.
TW: I bought a copy of the bootleg on eBay. 'Cause I didn't know where
those tapes were.
O: How does the bootleg hold up?
TW: Okay. There was stuff that didn't make it on to the record.
O: How many songs are usually left over on any given record?
TW: Oh, there's always a bunch of them that don't make the boat.
That's normal. You just stick 'em all together later and put 'em out
by themselves. Those Alice songs were all in a briefcase that got
stolen out of the back of my car, and they were ransomed by these
radicals who thought they really had something. We had to pay a couple
grand to get the briefcase back, but I think they copied the tapes.
O: What was the exchange like? Did you get to meet them somewhere?
TW: Yeah, some dark café, you know, everybody was wearing sunglasses,
it was really cold. They said, "We're gonna leave the briefcase by the
trash can. Put the money in a bag..." It added a little intrigue to
the whole project.
O: What's your collaborative process like with Kathleen Brennan?
TW: [Chuckles.] Oh! Well, you know, "You wash, I'll dry." It all comes
down to making choices and a lot of decisions. You know, are we gonna
do a song about our cruise ship, or a meadow, or a brothel, or... just
a rhapsody, or is it a parlor song or a work song or a field holler?
What is it? The form itself is like a Jell-O mold. It's like doing
anything that you would do with someone. "You hold it right there
while I hit it," or the other way around. You find a rhythm in the way
of working. I trust her opinion above all else. You've gotta have
somebody to trust, that knows a lot. She's done a lot of things. I'm
Ingrid Bergman and she's Bogart. She's got a pilot's license, and she
was gonna be a nun before we got married. I put an end to that. She
knows about everything from motorcycle repair to high finance, and
she's an excellent pianist. One of the leading authorities on the
African violet. She's a lot of strong material. She's like Superwoman,
standing there with her cape flapping. It works. We've been at this
for some time now. Sometimes you quarrel, and it's the result of
irritation, and sometimes it comes out of the ground like a potato and
we marvel at it. She doesn't like the spotlight. She's a very private
person, as opposed to myself. [Laughs.]
O: You have kind of developed a reputation as a recluse. Does that
bother you?
TW: Hell, no. I think that's a good one. It wards off strangers. It's
like being a beekeeper. No, if people are a little nervous about
approaching you at the market, it's good. I'm not Chuckles The Clown.
Or Bozo. I don't cut the ribbon at the opening of markets. I don't
stand next to the mayor. Hit your baseball into my yard, and you'll
never see it again. I just have a close circle of friends and loved
ones—the circle of trust, as they say.
O: There's actually a section on your web site about fans who have
spotted or encountered you in public. Do you have a problem going out?
TW: I go where I feel like. Funny little story... I drove on a field
trip once, to a guitar factory, to show all these little kids how to
make guitars. So we're standing there, and I'm looking around, and
folks are looking over at me, and I'm just waiting for someone to
recognize me—you know, "Hey, aren't you that music guy? That singer
guy?" Nobody. Nothing. We're there for, like, two hours, watching them
put the frets on and all that, and I'm waiting and waiting... A week
later, I took the same group of kids on a field trip to the dump, and
as I pulled up, don't ask me how, but my truck was surrounded by
people that wanted an autograph. It was a dump, for Christ's sake. I
guess everybody knows me at the dump.
O: It kind of proves that you never know who your audience is.
TW: You don't really know. I guess one should not even assume that one
has an audience, and allow it to go to your head.
O: Your early stuff is influenced by the Beats, and your later stuff
seems equally influenced by older, harder-to-define influences. Do you
think you're slipping further back into the past as you get older?
TW: I don't know. I hope I'm not slipping at all.
O: I don't mean that in a negative sense. I mean, do you think you're
drawing on older influences as you get older?
TW: I really don't know. What you rely on... I think you kind of take
the world apart and put it back together. The further you get from
something, the better your memory is of it, sometimes. Who knows how
that works? Those are big questions about the nature of memory and its
influence on your present life. I don't know. Consider this: The
number of cars on the planet is increasing three times faster than the
population growth. Three times faster. I mean, there's eleven and a
half million cars in Los Angeles alone.
O: What are you driving these days?
"I got a beautiful 1959 Cadillac Coupe DeVille four-door. No one will
ride in it with me. It's unsafe. But it looks good. I take it to the
dump."
TW: Oh, I got a beautiful 1959 Cadillac Coupe DeVille four-door. No
one will ride in it with me.
O: Why's that?
TW: It's unsafe. But it looks good. I take it to the dump. We spend a
lot of time in our cars. You know what I really love? The CD players
in a car. How when you put the CD right up by the slot, it actually
takes it out of your hand, like it's hungry. It pulls it in, and you
feel like it wants more silver discs. "More silver discs. Please." I
enjoy that.
O: Do you have one in the Cadillac?
TW: No, I have a little band in there. It's an old car, so I have a
little old string band in the glove compartment. It's grumpy.
O: You used a lot of unusual instruments on these albums. Can you tell
me about any of them? I was intrigued by the stroh violin [a violin
with a trumpet-like bell attached to it].
TW: Well, you know, there were stroh basses, and there were stroh
violas, stroh cellos. Have you ever seen one?
O: No, I don't think so.
TW: It's a horn attached to the bridge, and it has a hinge on it. It's
like a brass flower designed in the same configuration or shape as the
old 78 players. You could aim it at the balcony. The string players
were disgruntled. They felt they were constantly competing with the
brass. It gave 'em a little edge. I don't know, you don't hear it
anymore. I guess because before the advent of amplification, you were
dealing purely with physics all the time. It's an interesting solution
to that problem.
O: Are there any instruments that you've wanted to use that you
haven't had a chance to yet?
TW: Well, we tried to find a theremin for Alice, but we were unable to
find anyone locally that was really accomplished. The woman that
played in the original Alice orchestra we found was the granddaughter
of Leon Theremin. She was really amazing. You would imagine someone
like that would have some really sophisticated instrument, but she
brought this thing that looked like a hotplate with a car aerial
coming out of it. She opened it up, and inside, all the connections
between the circuits were established with cut-up little pieces of
beer can wrapped around the wires. All the paint was worn off, but
when she played it, it was like Jascha Heifetz. They're doing
experiments with the theremin now. The sound waves you experience when
you play it have therapeutic value.
O: How so?
TW: I don't know, just the fact that you don't touch it—that you play
the air and you're in contact with the waves—somehow does something to
you on a more genetic level, and can heal the sick. Raise the dead.
Apparently. You know the average person spends two weeks over their
lifetime waiting for the traffic light to change?
O: Really? I would actually guess a little more.
TW: I would guess more, too. I'm thinking, two weeks, you know...
O: That sounds like a bargain.
TW: During your whole lifetime, though. You know mosquito repellents
don't actually repel anything? They actually hide you because they
block the mosquito's sensors. They don't know that you're there. It's
like blinding them.
O: It used to be that, like you, a lot of musicians took a hard-line
stance against having their music used in advertising. That seems to
have shifted. Why do you think that is?
"I don't like hearing those Beatles songs in the commercials. It
almost renders them useless... I just think, 'Oh, God, another one
bites the dust.'"
TW: I don't know. They're all high on crack. Let's just say it's a
sore subject with me. I went to court over it, you know... You know,
you see a bathroom-tissue commercial, and you start hearing "Let The
Good Times Roll," and the paper thing's rolling down the stairs. Why
would anybody want to mortify and humiliate themselves? Well, it's
just business, you know? The memory that you have and the association
you have with that song can be co-opted. And a lot of people are
really in it for the money. Period. A lot of people don't have any
control over it. I don't own the copyrights to my early tunes. So it
is unfortunate, but there are a lot of people that consciously want
their songs exploited in that way, which I think is demeaning. I hate
it when I hear songs that I already have a connection with, used in a
way that's humiliating. I mean, in the old days, if somebody was doing
a commercial, you used to say, "Oh, gee, too bad, he probably needs
the money." But now, it's like hocking cigarettes and underwear with
rock 'n' roll. I guess that's our big export. It's like how a good
butcher uses every part of the cow. I don't like hearing those Beatles
songs in the commercials. It almost renders them useless. Maybe not
for everyone else, but when I hear it I just think, "Oh, God, another
one bites the dust."
O: I still can't hear "Good Vibrations" without thinking of Sunkist.
TW: Oh, wow, yeah. That's exactly what they want. They want to plug
your head into that and change the circuitry. While you're dreaming
about your connection with that song, why don't you think about soda
or candy or something? It's too bad, but it's the way of the world.
They love to get their meat-hooks in you.
O: Your kids are old enough to have their own musical tastes now. Do
you approve of what they listen to?
TW: Oh, sure, yeah. As long as they're listening. You know, what
happens is that as you start getting older, you get out of touch. I'm
like a turtleneck sweater. And then your kids kind of enlighten you:
"Dad, have you heard Blackalicious?" I take 'em to the show, but I
drop them off. I'm not allowed to go in. It'd be too embarrassing.
O: Do you have a favorite cover version of one of your songs?
TW: Johnny Cash did a song called "Down There By The Train," Solomon
Burke did one. But, you know, cover versions are good. I used to bark
about it, and then I said, "Oh, it's good." If you write songs, you
really do kind of want someone to hear it and say, "Hey, man, I could
do that." So if they're not doing your songs, you wonder, "Why aren't
they doing my songs?" If it's too individual, too personal, then it
can't be re-imagined.
O: What's the most outrageous lie you've ever told a reporter?
TW: That I'm a medical doctor.
O: Did the reporter buy it?
TW: I started talking anatomy with the guy, and I think I strung him
along pretty good for a while. But then I realized... He told me his
dad was a doctor, and he tripped me up on something. I mispronounced
"femur" or something. I do like books on anatomy. I have to say I'm an
amateur physician, I guess.
O: You've never practiced?
TW: I practice at home, on the kids. Interestingly enough, there are a
lot of musicians who are also doctors, or a lot of doctors who are
also musicians. There is a connection. Surgeons work in a theatre, and
they call it a theatre. All medical procedures require two hands, so
in a sense it's like when you play an instrument. That's what they
call things that they use in their work: They call them instruments.
I've played with a lot of musicians who are also doctors. I worked
with a bass player who was a doctor. You know, I suppose there is a
connection. A lot of people start out majoring in medicine and drop it
and change their major to music. I don't know, it's just one of those
things.
O: Any last words for our readers?
TW: Famous last words? Lemme think here. All right, here we go. Umm...
I'm looking down my list. Never have I waltzed to "My Country 'Tis Of
Thee," nor met anyone who did. Still, it's a waltz, for it's written
in waltz time.
Arthur Levesque
Tyler>of you (who DO know him) probably don't like him, but I am posting
Tyler>this anyway, because it's such a great interview.
Oddly enough, I was just skimming another Waits interview (June 2002
"GQ") yesterday evening, while waiting my turn for a haircut (yes, it's WAY
too hot for the Ozzy hair I had at the last 'Spat).
--
"That's it, I'm leaving usenet forever." -Tara Kostezky
Tyler
>From: meist...@boog.org (Arthur Levesque)
>Date: 5/30/2002 7:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <ad527m$tv5rn$8...@ID-75701.news.dfncis.de>
>
>Tyler>I realize that most of you will not know who he is, and that others
>Tyler>of you (who DO know him) probably don't like him, but I am posting
>Tyler>this anyway, because it's such a great interview.
>
> Oddly enough, I was just skimming another Waits interview (June 2002
>"GQ") yesterday evening, while waiting my turn for a haircut (yes, it's WAY
>too hot for the Ozzy hair I had at the last 'Spat).
Some Asian woman recently hacked my locks. They didn't have any good magazines,
though, so I played games on my cell phone.
Waits is a brilliant guy, and a great actor. I wonder what his wife/partner in
crime is like.
Arthur Levesque
There were huge piles of hair on the floor when she was done. It's a
good thing they don't charge by the pound.
--
/\ Arthur Levesque <fnord?> http://boog.org & http://DammitJa.net __
\B\ack King of the Potato People & shanana-Cobain <*> Urban Spaceman (oO)
\S\lash Sweet transvestite and member of a vast right-wing conspiracy /||\
\/ I was a lesbian before it was fashionable! My work here is done...
Just Lori
> Oddly enough, I was just skimming another Waits interview (June 2002
>"GQ") yesterday evening, while waiting my turn for a haircut (yes, it's WAY
>too hot for the Ozzy hair I had at the last 'Spat).
You just didn't want to look like me any more. *sniffle*
--
"Trolls don't troll because they're ignorant. Trolls troll because of
the heated, over-earnest responses from gallery." - Peter Walker
John VanSickle
>
> Some Asian woman recently hacked my locks.
Some German woman hacked mine today. Down to about half an inch on
top, taperin to 1/4" at the ears.
Regards,
John
Blarg
wrote:
Why not shave it all off instead of having the recent Sinead look?
Regards,
John
--
"Children are all a clean slate. We ruin them at our whim." -Tyler