Goblins & Orcs
HMC
caves were referred to as Goblins however in the prologue to the FOTR it
referrers to Bilbo's narrow escape from the Orcs in the mountain caves where
he found the ring ?
Were these creatures Goblins or Orcs ?
Why does one book refer to goblins and the other to Orcs ?
Are the two terms interchangeable ?
Thanks
Henry
Donald Shepherd
<"HMC" <henry_mc@(nospam)hotmail.com>> says...
> I have just read the Hobbit, 2nd time, and the creatures in the mountain
> caves were referred to as Goblins however in the prologue to the FOTR it
> referrers to Bilbo's narrow escape from the Orcs in the mountain caves where
> he found the ring ?
>
> Were these creatures Goblins or Orcs ?
They're one and the same.
> Why does one book refer to goblins and the other to Orcs ?
> Are the two terms interchangeable ?
Because they're interchangable, and yes. :)
Try http://tolkien.slimy.com/ for a more detailed answer to this, as
well as other FAQs, although if you haven't read LotR (seeing as though
you haven't mentioned it), you may want to leave it until you do because
it and this group are full of spoilers.
--
Donald Shepherd
<donald_...@hotmail.com>
"To be old and wise you must first be young and stupid"
AC
Goblins and Orcs are the same creatures.
--
AC
phobos
Interchangeable. Goblins are a smallish breed of Orc, referred to as
'snaga', or slave, by the larger Orcs. Note that the mountains to the
north of Mirkwood are described as being full of goblins, hobgoblins
and orcs; they're the same species, just different sizes.
Bill O'Meally
"phobos" <pho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:af26c87a.0211...@posting.google.com...
I'm not sure there's even that difference. "Goblin" seems to be a Shire term
for Orcs in general.
--
Bill
"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
AC
> Interchangeable. Goblins are a smallish breed of Orc, referred to as
> 'snaga', or slave, by the larger Orcs. Note that the mountains to the
> north of Mirkwood are described as being full of goblins, hobgoblins
> and orcs; they're the same species, just different sizes.
There is no difference of any kind. Goblins and orcs are the same creature,
whether they be big or small. Tolkien chose to use the word "Orc" in LotR,
which was in keeping with the Silmarillion.
--
AC
Graeme
I'm not sure there's even that difference. "Goblin" seems to be a Shire term
for Orcs in general.
--
Bill
>>
Yes, remember Sam even refers to "those cursed Goblins" in Return of the King,
while in the 3rd person they're still being called Orcs.
As for hobgoblins, the word is only mentioned once briefly in The Hobbit.
Perhaps a hobgoblin is a goblin who's just eaten a Hobbit.
Graeme
whether they be big or small. Tolkien chose to use the word "Orc" in LotR,
which was in keeping with the Silmarillion.
--
AC
>>
Yes, and the ultimate proof that there's no difference is in the name Orcrist,
which translates to Goblin Cleaver.
Steuard Jensen
<af26c87a.0211...@posting.google.com>:
> "HMC" <henry_mc@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Why does one book refer to goblins and the other to Orcs ?
> > Are the two terms interchangeable ?
> Interchangeable. Goblins are a smallish breed of Orc, referred to as
> 'snaga', or slave, by the larger Orcs.
Yes on the "Interchangeable", no on the "smallish breed". The Elvish
name of "Goblin Cleaver" was "Orcrist", not "Smallish-orcrist". :) I
also seem to recall either Ugluk, Grishnakh, or both being called a
goblin in the text of LotR, and neither of them would be called
"snaga", I think. This (and many other questions) is discussed in the
Tolkien Meta-FAQ, at http://tolkien.slimy.com/. I hope you enjoy it!
Steuard Jensen
Pradera
> Yes, remember Sam even refers to "those cursed Goblins" in Return of
> the King, while in the 3rd person they're still being called Orcs.
>
> As for hobgoblins, the word is only mentioned once briefly in The
> Hobbit. Perhaps a hobgoblin is a goblin who's just eaten a Hobbit.
>
Or a goblin that lives in a hole, from OE 'holgoblin' > 'holbytla goblin'
--
Pradera
---
One command to plonk them all
And in my killfile bind them.