What is a troll? (was: How valuable is Jesus?)

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Ed Poor

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Aug 19, 2001, 9:50:30 AM8/19/01
to
>As usual David, you are right on the button. I lurked for a while
there
>to see what he was peddling.
>
>I suppose you could say he was on an extended TROLL there too, with a
>lot of polite but barbed references to the other posters creeping in
>occassionally. Still, let's see what he's made of.
>
>M.

Thanks. I'm not sure how a 'troll' is defined here. I thought it was a
poster who just wants to provoke readers, but doesn't want any real
discussion. We have some on our church's newsgroup
(alt.religion.unification), and I've kill-filed a couple of them.

Ed Poor

Michael O'Neill

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Aug 19, 2001, 2:11:04 PM8/19/01
to
Ed Poor wrote:
>
> >As usual David, you are right on the button. I lurked for a while
> there
> >to see what he was peddling.
> >
> >I suppose you could say he was on an extended TROLL there too, with a
> >lot of polite but barbed references to the other posters creeping in
> >occassionally. Still, let's see what he's made of.
> >
> >M.
>
> Thanks.

Don't thank me.

> I'm not sure how a 'troll' is defined here.

The same as its defined all over Usenet Ed.


> I thought it was a
> poster who just wants to provoke readers, but doesn't want any real
> discussion.

No Ed, that's not how a TROLL is defined.

A TROLL is defined as "a post designed to generate a large number of
responses thus disrupting the proper business of the newsgroup".

> We have some on our church's newsgroup
> (alt.religion.unification), and I've kill-filed a couple of them.

Ohhh of that I'm sure. We're usually more tolerant here in aft. We let
them make fools of themselves and amuse us for a while and then we refer
them to their ISP.

But you're a religious fundamentalist aren't you Ed? You wouldn't know
what tolerance is, would you? Or maybe you'd tolerate things just so
long as they were going your way ehhhh, Ed? What's the story Ed?

Did you not in fact have a Master Plan to post to aft and rabt to
generate off topic cross-posts back to your home group so you could
whinge about others TROLLing back there.

Are you in fact a sekrit hater of the Reverend Moon? Did you infiltrate
his Newsgroup just to lure people there from other newsgroups to disrupt
it? May your soul writh eternally in unmitigated damnation if you did.

> Ed Poor

Ed Poor? Is that your given name, or did it adopt you?

M.

Ed Poor

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Aug 19, 2001, 2:35:50 PM8/19/01
to
I see that you (and several others) feel my mithril post was
disruptive. I apologize, and I will focus on other threads for the
time being.

Fair enough?

Ed Poor
"very good, always helps"
:--)

Michael O'Neill wrote in message <3B800138...@indigo.ie>...

Ed Poor

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Aug 19, 2001, 3:04:59 PM8/19/01
to
>> We have some on our church's newsgroup
>> (alt.religion.unification), and I've kill-filed a couple of them.
>
>Ohhh of that I'm sure. We're usually more tolerant here in aft. We
let
>them make fools of themselves and amuse us for a while and then we
refer
>them to their ISP.

I'm glad I amuse you. Want to see me jump on a table and sing? Hm,
it's hard to balance up here with one hand in my pocket; let's hope I
don't fall off and break up our host's crockery.

>But you're a religious fundamentalist aren't you Ed? You wouldn't
know
>what tolerance is, would you? Or maybe you'd tolerate things just so
>long as they were going your way ehhhh, Ed? What's the story Ed?

I'm a firm believer in my religion, if that's what you mean: dyed in
the woll, you might say. I'm sorry if I'm not as tolerant as you are.
Perhaps I can learn from you. BTW, how am I doing on snipping?

>Did you not in fact have a Master Plan to post to aft and rabt to
>generate off topic cross-posts back to your home group so you could
>whinge about others TROLLing back there.

Actually, all I wanted was some discussion on human value and
perfection, and I had a 'bright idea' that my favorite book might be a
good reference point. I bet Bilbo had no idea how valuable it was. May
I now segue into speculating whether humanity has any idea how
valuable Jesus is, or would that be trolling?

>Are you in fact a sekrit hater of the Reverend Moon? Did you
infiltrate
>his Newsgroup just to lure people there from other newsgroups to
disrupt
>it? May your soul writh eternally in unmitigated damnation if you
did.

If you feel this is a disruption, why don't you e-mail me privately or
snip aft and rabt and just tell me off once and for all? The way it's
going, it feels like going through a gauntlet.

>Ed Poor? Is that your given name, or did it adopt you?
>
>M.

Glad I could amuse you.

E.

Michael O'Neill

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Aug 19, 2001, 3:05:54 PM8/19/01
to
Ed Poor wrote:
>
> I see that you (and several others) feel my mithril post was
> disruptive. I apologize, and I will focus on other threads for the
> time being.
>
> Fair enough?
>
> Ed Poor
> "very good, always helps"
> :--)

<snip>

Oh Ed, you've played true to form again. Not a single answer to any
issue in raised in my post.

You are a true TROLL.

Enjoy your stay. They're a terrible shower of atheistic communists here
anyway... you might bring them a little bit of religion.

M.

Leo Fellmann

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Aug 19, 2001, 6:44:04 PM8/19/01
to

"Michael O'Neill" <o...@indigo.ie> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3B800138...@indigo.ie...

> Ed Poor wrote:
> >
> > >As usual David, you are right on the button. I lurked for a while
> > there
> > >to see what he was peddling.
> > >
> > >I suppose you could say he was on an extended TROLL there too, with a
> > >lot of polite but barbed references to the other posters creeping in
> > >occassionally. Still, let's see what he's made of.
> > >
> > >M.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Don't thank me.
>
> > I'm not sure how a 'troll' is defined here.
>
> The same as its defined all over Usenet Ed.
>
>
> > I thought it was a
> > poster who just wants to provoke readers, but doesn't want any real
> > discussion.
>
> No Ed, that's not how a TROLL is defined.
>
> A TROLL is defined as "a post designed to generate a large number of
> responses thus disrupting the proper business of the newsgroup".

<snip rather rude reply>

You mean like the rest of your post?
I must say, I've just got into this NG and honestly, it seems like I should
look at alt.fan.tolkien instead. Maybe it's quieter?


Leo Fellmann

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Aug 19, 2001, 6:51:39 PM8/19/01
to

"Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:UiXf7.216$5m1.4...@nnrp1.proxad.net...

> I must say, I've just got into this NG and honestly, it seems like I
should
> look at alt.fan.tolkien instead. Maybe it's quieter?

Er.. I meant rec.arts.books.tolkien really. Sorry folks :)


Stan Brown

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Aug 19, 2001, 8:02:22 PM8/19/01
to
Ed Poor <ed....@att.net> wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:

>Thanks. I'm not sure how a 'troll' is defined here. I thought it was a
>poster who just wants to provoke readers, but doesn't want any real
>discussion. We have some on our church's newsgroup
>(alt.religion.unification), and I've kill-filed a couple of them.

That's a fair definition. And the "How valuable is Jesus" thread is
a fair example, at least with respect to rec.arts.books.tolkien.

Who started that one, anyway? Oh yeah ...

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://oakroadsystems.com
Tolkien FAQs: http://home.uchicago.edu/~sbjensen/Tolkien/
Tolkien letters FAQ: http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm

Ed Poor

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Aug 19, 2001, 9:26:47 PM8/19/01
to
So I can't mention Jesus on a newsgroup devoted to a book by a devoted
Catholic, eh?

Okay, I guess it's a taboo subject. Fair enough.

Ed Poor

Stan Brown wrote in message ...

Öjevind Lång

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Aug 20, 2001, 1:36:28 AM8/20/01
to
Leo Fellmann hath written:


You SHOULD be sorry! Anyway, RABT is not quieter than this newsgroup, what
with its interminable, giant thread about abortions-homosexuality-capital
punishment-jail rapes-Catholicism-liberalism-fundamentalism-greedy
bishops-taxes and a great number of other things... It is like a scab: many
people, myself included, can't help picking at it. Anyway, this tread is
posted in RABT too, though I have removed the followup to
alt.religion.unification.
A question: Do you think missionaries for some religion or other should
make posts in Tolkien newsgroups pretending that they are interested in
Tolkien but in reality clearly hoping to convert people to their faith?

Öjevind


Aris Katsaris

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Aug 20, 2001, 4:50:50 AM8/20/01
to

Ed Poor <ed....@att.net> wrote in message
news:rHZf7.23704$1p1.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> So I can't mention Jesus on a newsgroup devoted to a book by a devoted
> Catholic, eh?

You can mention him. But it's dishonest to try and make your posts look like
having any connection with Tolkien when your purpose is just
proselytisation (sp?).

It's like I came to your alt.religion.unification newsgroup and said
something
like "Hey your newsgroup has the letter U in its name. U is rather curvy,
which reminds me of the curvy road that Gandalf and Pippin had to take
as they approached Minas Tirith - why don't we discuss Minas Tirith
architecture while we are it!"

You *really* don't get how ridiculous your "The Mithril coat was precious,
but Jesus is even more precious. Let us discuss the preciousness of
Jesus!" was, do you?

Aris Katsaris


Leo Fellmann

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Aug 20, 2001, 6:07:01 AM8/20/01
to

"Öjevind Lång" <ojevin...@swipnet.se> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Jo1g7.10095$5t1....@nntpserver.swip.net...

> Leo Fellmann hath written:
>
> >"Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> >news:UiXf7.216$5m1.4...@nnrp1.proxad.net...
> >> I must say, I've just got into this NG and honestly, it seems like I
> >should
> >> look at alt.fan.tolkien instead. Maybe it's quieter?
> >
> >Er.. I meant rec.arts.books.tolkien really. Sorry folks :)
>
>
> You SHOULD be sorry! Anyway, RABT is not quieter than this newsgroup, what
> with its interminable, giant thread about abortions-homosexuality-capital
> punishment-jail rapes-Catholicism-liberalism-fundamentalism-greedy
> bishops-taxes and a great number of other things... It is like a scab:
many
> people, myself included, can't help picking at it. Anyway, this tread is
> posted in RABT too, though I have removed the followup to
> alt.religion.unification.

I should think so!

> A question: Do you think missionaries for some religion or other should
> make posts in Tolkien newsgroups pretending that they are interested in
> Tolkien but in reality clearly hoping to convert people to their faith?

I'm a fairly firm atheist, but I like my debates :)

Well, actually, not in alt.fan.tolkien. But the post wasn't *that* bad - It
was nothing OTT,as us British would say.


Leo Fellmann

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Aug 20, 2001, 6:08:04 AM8/20/01
to

"Aris Katsaris" <kats...@otenet.gr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9lqj39$fh0$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...

Well, he had a sort-of-point there, and it was not such a bad analogy. The
only problem was that it was slightly OT in this NG, yes.


Ed Poor

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Aug 20, 2001, 7:09:25 AM8/20/01
to
Aris Katsaris wrote in message <9lqj39$fh0$1...@usenet.otenet.gr>...

>
>> So I can't mention Jesus on a newsgroup devoted to a book by
>>a devoted Catholic, eh?
>
>You can mention him. But it's dishonest to try and make your
>posts look like having any connection with Tolkien when your
>purpose is just proselytisation (sp?).
>
>It's like I came to your alt.religion.unification newsgroup and
>said something like "Hey your newsgroup has the letter U in
>its name. U is rather curvy, which reminds me of the curvy
>road that Gandalf and Pippin had to take as they approached
>Minas Tirith - why don't we discuss Minas Tirith architecture
>while we are it!"


ROTFL, okay, I get your point: the connection was too remote to make
sense to anyone but a one-track mind like mine.

BTW, the tower that reached up to heaven reminds me of the tower of
Babel. Let's discuss this! (he, he, just kidding)

>>You *really* don't get how ridiculous your "The Mithril coat
>was precious, but Jesus is even more precious. Let us discuss
>the preciousness of Jesus!" was, do you?
>
>Aris Katsaris


No, it seems reasonable to me, just as it seems reasonable to me that
Gandalf would spend all his time looking out for other people's
interests instead of acquiring riches and a kingdom (and a wife).

Excuse me, my gangrel companion wants to say something: "But maybe
there's something else that's preciousss to them, something they wants
. . . tricksy, false?" Down, boy! Or you'll feel Sting! (Sorry about
that, he's incorrigible.)

All kidding aside, you and others have made it emphatically clear that
there is to be a sharp division between Fantasy -- which gets
discussed on aft & rabt -- and Religion -- which is relegated to the
alt.religion hierarchy. The only exception seems to be an extended
thread called 'Creation in Tolkien & Lewis'.

You guys really ought to assign me someone like Baranor's grandson to
show me around.

Ed Poor

Blob

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Aug 20, 2001, 7:35:23 AM8/20/01
to
"Ed Poor" <ed....@att.net> wrote in message
news:Fd6g7.24262$1p1.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

or just *Plonk!*


Ed Poor

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Aug 20, 2001, 7:15:35 AM8/20/01
to
> A question: Do you think missionaries for some religion or other
should
>make posts in Tolkien newsgroups pretending that they are interested
in
>Tolkien but in reality clearly hoping to convert people to their
faith?
>
>Öjevind


Even if I had come with that hope, I wouldn't have retained it by now.
I had one idea to discuss, that's all. But I don't like being shouted
down.

Try, "Who is your favorite hobbit?" for a more on-topic thread.

Cheers,

rand mair fheal

unread,
Aug 20, 2001, 7:22:07 AM8/20/01
to
>>>You *really* don't get how ridiculous your "The Mithril coat
>>was precious, but Jesus is even more precious. Let us discuss
>>the preciousness of Jesus!" was, do you?

jrrt was very antihoarding
as expressed by the many comments on dwarves and their pursuit of gold

>No, it seems reasonable to me, just as it seems reasonable to me that
>Gandalf would spend all his time looking out for other people's
>interests instead of acquiring riches and a kingdom (and a wife).

saruman did get trapped in his greed and lust

and radagasts fate sounds similar to another lesser issue
getting to caught up in this world and eschewing heaven for earth

maiar were only as biological as they chose to be
so things like sex were not the most natural or desirous things to their nature

>All kidding aside, you and others have made it emphatically clear that
>there is to be a sharp division between Fantasy -- which gets
>discussed on aft & rabt -- and Religion -- which is relegated to the
>alt.religion hierarchy. The only exception seems to be an extended
>thread called 'Creation in Tolkien & Lewis'.

it was thing to discuss how jrrts christian views influenced his stories

Michael O'Neill

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Aug 20, 2001, 8:54:08 AM8/20/01
to
Leo Fellmann wrote:
<snip>

> <snip rather rude reply>
>
> You mean like the rest of your post?
> I must say, I've just got into this NG and honestly, it seems like I should
> look at alt.fan.tolkien instead. Maybe it's quieter?

Oh Leo!

You're another clueless newbie! Two in one week! I love it!

LOL!

I'm only joking with you Leo, stop that bmubbering...

When you've looked around Usenet for a bit, learnt to use a search
engine [google has a good one] and learnt who the players are in any
given group then you might be in a position to judge the situation a
little better than you just did.

I cannot criticise you for what you posted, I can only hope you'll do a
little more research before posting next time - like looking in the
Moonies group and see Ed Poors posts there before you criticise my
stance.

I see you're a quick learner and that you own up to your mistakes
quickly. Essential attributes for aft/rabt and helps to avoid flame
wars. I see also that Oje has swung in on your thread. ENjoy.

M.

P.S. You're quite correct about rabt being a rowdy lot of
self-opinonated half-orcs. Stick wit hus kid, you'll never be bored. Not
so long as Ed Poor is here anyways...

Michael O'Neill

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Aug 20, 2001, 9:13:04 AM8/20/01
to
Ed Poor wrote:
>
> >> We have some on our church's newsgroup
> >> (alt.religion.unification), and I've kill-filed a couple of them.
> >
> >Ohhh of that I'm sure. We're usually more tolerant here in aft. We
> let
> >them make fools of themselves and amuse us for a while and then we
> refer
> >them to their ISP.
>
> I'm glad I amuse you.

Tut, tut. You're not really glad at all Ed, are you? A fundie like you
getting slagged off in public?

LOL!

> Want to see me jump on a table and sing? Hm,
> it's hard to balance up here with one hand in my pocket; let's hope I
> don't fall off and break up our host's crockery.

No Ed. The mere fact that you follow a fundamentalist religion is enough
to amuse me.

*mheh*

> >But you're a religious fundamentalist aren't you Ed? You wouldn't
> know
> >what tolerance is, would you? Or maybe you'd tolerate things just so
> >long as they were going your way ehhhh, Ed? What's the story Ed?

> I'm a firm believer in my religion, if that's what you mean: dyed in
> the woll, you might say. I'm sorry if I'm not as tolerant as you are.
> Perhaps I can learn from you. BTW, how am I doing on snipping?

You are interspersing *your* comments, not snipping *mine* Ed.

Distractive comments don't work on me as easily as they do on the
clueless newbies you TROLL into your church in real life, I'm afraid.

> >Did you not in fact have a Master Plan to post to aft and rabt to
> >generate off topic cross-posts back to your home group so you could
> >whinge about others TROLLing back there.
>
> Actually, all I wanted was some discussion on human value and
> perfection, and I had a 'bright idea' that my favorite book might be a
> good reference point. I bet Bilbo had no idea how valuable it was. May
> I now segue into speculating whether humanity has any idea how
> valuable Jesus is, or would that be trolling?

You can segue into whatever you want Ed. I don't own Usenet. FWIW
Tolkien is on record as hating allegory in all its forms and the mere
mention of Christ raises the hackles of like minded Tolkienites.

As for placing a vlue on Jesus, what a question to raise!!!

Perhaps Rev. Moon will issue a unitarian fatwa against me for taking the
piss out of you over it. Or on you for daring to be so blasphemous to
place a value on Christ. I ask you!

Placing a value on something whose value cannot be imagined. What a
terrible travesty of religious inquiry that would be.

I've heard of the Church of Christ Scientist, but not Christ Monetarist!

> >Are you in fact a sekrit hater of the Reverend Moon? Did you
> infiltrate
> >his Newsgroup just to lure people there from other newsgroups to
> disrupt
> >it? May your soul writh eternally in unmitigated damnation if you
> did.
>
> If you feel this is a disruption, why don't you e-mail me privately or
> snip aft and rabt and just tell me off once and for all? The way it's
> going, it feels like going through a gauntlet.

Does it Ed? Do you perhaps feel you stepped outside your yardsticks in
coming to aft? Don't you relise that people approach whatever they
conceive the fountainhead of creation/God/whatever to be in many
different ways? Some do it by reading Tolkien. Some do it by practising
Catholicism. Or Protestantism. Or Methodism. Or the Muslim faith. Or the
Jewish religion.

Or perhaps some of them don't believe the fountainhead of
creation/GOd/whatever needs approaching at all and are practising [sic]
atheists trying to live good lives and respecting their fellow man.

Hell! Some of them could be Bishops or Nuns into ensuring their souls
salvation by inflicting pain on themselves or that ultimate sexual
perversion, chastity!

ROTFLMAO!

> >Ed Poor? Is that your given name, or did it adopt you?
> >
> >M.
>
> Glad I could amuse you.
>
> E.

We haven't even begun Ed. I'm merely trying to point you towards a few
definitions of terms - so you'll understand, later on. Then again, you
might just re-read the header, which really says it all.

M.

Aris Katsaris

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Aug 20, 2001, 9:30:54 AM8/20/01
to

Ed Poor <ed....@att.net> wrote in message
news:Fd6g7.24262$1p1.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> Aris Katsaris wrote in message <9lqj39$fh0$1...@usenet.otenet.gr>...
> >
> >> So I can't mention Jesus on a newsgroup devoted to a book by
> >>a devoted Catholic, eh?
> >
> >You can mention him. But it's dishonest to try and make your
> >posts look like having any connection with Tolkien when your
> >purpose is just proselytisation (sp?).
> >
> >It's like I came to your alt.religion.unification newsgroup and
> >said something like "Hey your newsgroup has the letter U in
> >its name. U is rather curvy, which reminds me of the curvy
> >road that Gandalf and Pippin had to take as they approached
> >Minas Tirith - why don't we discuss Minas Tirith architecture
> >while we are it!"
>
>
> ROTFL, okay, I get your point: the connection was too remote to make
> sense to anyone but a one-track mind like mine.

Exactly.

> All kidding aside, you and others have made it emphatically clear that
> there is to be a sharp division between Fantasy -- which gets
> discussed on aft & rabt -- and Religion -- which is relegated to the
> alt.religion hierarchy. The only exception seems to be an extended
> thread called 'Creation in Tolkien & Lewis'.

Wrong both about the rule and the exception.... Religion can be discussed
on-topic here when it pertains to Tolkien's writings (and it does - a lot).
And
it can be occasionally discussed off-topic as politics or any other thing is
occasionally discussed. But many were offended when you tried to start
an off-topic discussion and present it as an on-topic one.

Aris Katsaris

Michael O'Neill

unread,
Aug 20, 2001, 9:36:22 AM8/20/01
to
Ed Poor wrote:
>
> > A question: Do you think missionaries for some religion or other
> should
> >make posts in Tolkien newsgroups pretending that they are interested
> in
> >Tolkien but in reality clearly hoping to convert people to their
> faith?
> >
> >Öjevind
>
> Even if I had come with that hope, I wouldn't have retained it by now.
> I had one idea to discuss, that's all. But I don't like being shouted
> down.

<snip>

Your hope Ed, was terrible to behold. Tolkien hated allegory and your
post smacked of it terribly, embarrassingly, and annoyingly.

M.


BTW Watching an self-admitted Dyed-in-the-Wool Unitarian telling a
newsgroup he has left his missionary zeal at home is like watching an
Orc play with Hobbits.

Steuard Jensen

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Aug 20, 2001, 9:45:41 AM8/20/01
to
Quoth "Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> in article
<UiXf7.216$5m1.4...@nnrp1.proxad.net>:
> "Michael O'Neill" <o...@indigo.ie> schrieb:

> > A TROLL is defined as "a post designed to generate a large number of
> > responses thus disrupting the proper business of the newsgroup".
> <snip rather rude reply>

> You mean like the rest of your post?

Michael O'Neill tends to be a little, er, direct at times. I usually
try to take his less polite offerings with quite a few grains of salt,
which improves their flavor immensely. :)

> I must say, I've just got into this NG and honestly, it seems like I
> should look at alt.fan.tolkien instead. Maybe it's quieter?

If you ignore the giant, sprawling "Creation in Tolkien and Lewis"
thread (and its descendants), it's really not too bad (or so I like to
think, anyway). I really do hope that the folks discussing, well,
whatever it is they're discussing there now (capital punishment?) will
come to their senses before too long and get back to discussing
Tolkien: that thread seems to be sapping a good bit of the energy that
the group would normally put toward actual on-topic discussions. The
Barrow-blades thread has been interesting, though, and there have been
a handful of other interesting on-topic discussions recently, too. :)

Steuard Jensen

Steuard Jensen

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Aug 20, 2001, 10:06:58 AM8/20/01
to
Quoth Michael O'Neill <o...@indigo.ie> in article
<3B810CE0...@indigo.ie>:
> Tut, tut. You're not really glad at all Ed, are you? A fundie like
> you getting slagged off in public?

ENOUGH, Michael. Sheesh. Ed seems to have learned the ropes around
here at least to some degree; it's well past the time that you and
everyone else who's still going after him should have given him a
second chance. I don't agree with his beliefs any more than you do,
but I don't agree with FotW's either, and he and I seem to get along
just fine. Personal attacks on each others' religions are exceedingly
inappropriate for the Tolkien groups. I don't think that anything you
could say online is going to "save" Ed here from his beliefs, any more
than anything he could say will "save" you from yours. Right now,
you're just being abusive... and more so than usual.

Steuard Jensen

Laurie Forbes

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Aug 20, 2001, 10:14:54 AM8/20/01
to

"Steuard Jensen" <sbje...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:6Q8g7.222$N4.2...@news.uchicago.edu...

> Quoth Michael O'Neill <o...@indigo.ie> in article
> <3B810CE0...@indigo.ie>:
> > Tut, tut. You're not really glad at all Ed, are you? A fundie like
> > you getting slagged off in public?

> ... Sheesh.


You watch your language, mister!


Michael O'Neill

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Aug 20, 2001, 4:51:09 PM8/20/01
to
Steuard Jensen wrote:

> Quoth Michael O'Neill <o...@indigo.ie> in article

<snip whine>

> Right now, you're just being abusive... and more so than usual.

How quickly they forget. Perhaps you sneed a reminder of what I'm really
like flaming someone... but I digress.

Steuard, I was being VERY restrained in my responses to Ed Poor. He is a
self-confessed dyed in the wool believer in a religion which uses, ehrm,
shall we say, *interesting* methods to win converts.

My posts never touched on *what* he believes, but on the more important
fact that he *believes* and what his church might do to get others to
believe.

Please note that not-so-subtle difference.

I also asked him whether or not he was TROLLing all three newsgroups
including his own, since trying to put a material value on the Godhead
would be a form of blasphemy in many religious circles, and a most
inappropriate inquiry in others.

There is a very serious inference to be drawn frmo the fact that Ed Poor
asked that question in three newsgroups. Either Ed Poor is, as he says,
a believer [however misguided and guileless] looking to broaden his
circle of acquaintances or he is a hypocrite, a non-believer and a
TROLL.

I'm merely following a definite line of inquiry. I'm very surprised you
didn't pick up the inference or where I was going with it.

May I remind you what fundamentalists have brought to grace the world?

Wars, inquisitions, genocide and on a lesser scale mental breakdowns,
public villification of intellectuals and broken families.

I seldom get offended enough to really take a dislike to someone but the
word games Ed Poor has been playing may yet prove my suspicion correct.

The last time I heard so many lame loaded questions from one person in
one week was from the priest in my civics class in secondary school.

I'm wondering if he's a priest of their religion.

Newsgroup line restored.

M.

Leo Fellmann

unread,
Aug 20, 2001, 5:54:12 PM8/20/01
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"Steuard Jensen" <sbje...@midway.uchicago.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9w8g7.220$N4.2...@news.uchicago.edu...

> Quoth "Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> in article
> <UiXf7.216$5m1.4...@nnrp1.proxad.net>:
> > "Michael O'Neill" <o...@indigo.ie> schrieb:
> > > A TROLL is defined as "a post designed to generate a large number of
> > > responses thus disrupting the proper business of the newsgroup".
> > <snip rather rude reply>
>
> > You mean like the rest of your post?
>
> Michael O'Neill tends to be a little, er, direct at times. I usually
> try to take his less polite offerings with quite a few grains of salt,
> which improves their flavor immensely. :)

tolerance, tolerance :)

> > I must say, I've just got into this NG and honestly, it seems like I
> > should look at alt.fan.tolkien instead. Maybe it's quieter?
>
> If you ignore the giant, sprawling "Creation in Tolkien and Lewis"
> thread (and its descendants), it's really not too bad (or so I like to
> think, anyway). I really do hope that the folks discussing, well,
> whatever it is they're discussing there now (capital punishment?) will
> come to their senses before too long and get back to discussing
> Tolkien: that thread seems to be sapping a good bit of the energy that
> the group would normally put toward actual on-topic discussions. The
> Barrow-blades thread has been interesting, though, and there have been
> a handful of other interesting on-topic discussions recently, too. :)

Is it customary to crosspost to both alt.fan.tolkien and
rec.arts.books.tolkien?
That seems to happen a lot.


Boris Badenov

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Aug 20, 2001, 6:52:53 PM8/20/01
to
On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:54:12 GMT, "Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> wrote:

|Is it customary to crosspost to both alt.fan.tolkien and
|rec.arts.books.tolkien?
|That seems to happen a lot.

Sometimes. I seldom start new threads, and seldom look at where my responses are going [so I have
occasionally found myself in some very strange places, but I digress]. I think most posters here
are like me, and that accounts for a lot of the crossposting.

My impression, and there is nothing official about any of this, is that RABT handles the Elven
linguistic issues, most of the discussion of the Silmarillion, scholarly questions like whether the
Balrogs had wings, whether barrow-blades kill Nazgul, and so on. AFT seems to focus on some of the
...shall we say..more superficial threads like who would win, Gandalf vs. the White Star? [Oops,
wrong newsgroup...]

Nick Tussing

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Aug 20, 2001, 8:20:09 PM8/20/01
to
>===== Original Message From sbje...@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen)
=====

>whatever it is they're discussing there now (capital punishment?) will
>come to their senses before too long and get back to discussing
>Tolkien: that thread seems to be sapping a good bit of the energy that
>the group would normally put toward actual on-topic discussions.

Last I checked, that thread was catually getting quasi-on topic again (what
comes around goes around, sort of thing ...:-]), which some talk about C.S.
Lewis's works ... That was after some talk about the authorship of St.
Paul's
epistles ...

--
Count Menelvagor the Slayer of Killerbytes, Dragon Balrog Baritone, Lord
High Enervator of the Empire of Psot, Editor of Sauron's Diary, and All that
other Goond Struff, Member, TEUNC

Saurons' Diary: http://home.no.net/~teunc/sauron/sauron.html


"To the amusement parks
Mice are approaching. The ducks awaken ..."
(The E-text, V.2)

Mailandnews.com: Psotting at the Speed of Quicksand!!
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Stan Brown

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Aug 20, 2001, 9:02:24 PM8/20/01
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Leo Fellmann <l.fel...@free.fr> wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:

>Is it customary to crosspost to both alt.fan.tolkien and
>rec.arts.books.tolkien? That seems to happen a lot.

Yes, fairly customary. A minority of threads are on just one or the
other newsgroup, though. It's _not_ customary to crosspost to some
religious newsgroup, as Poor Ed did.

[Massive over-quoting snipped -- please quote just the specific part
you're responding to, if any]

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA

http://oakroadsystems.com/
"What in heaven's name brought you to Casablanca?"
"My health. I came to Casablanca for the waters."
"The waters? What waters? We're in the desert."
"I was misinformed."

Leo Fellmann

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Aug 20, 2001, 9:42:35 PM8/20/01
to

"Stan Brown" <bra...@mindspring.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:MPG.15eb7d292...@news.mindspring.com...

> Leo Fellmann <l.fel...@free.fr> wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:
> >Is it customary to crosspost to both alt.fan.tolkien and
> >rec.arts.books.tolkien? That seems to happen a lot.
>
> Yes, fairly customary. A minority of threads are on just one or the
> other newsgroup, though. It's _not_ customary to crosspost to some
> religious newsgroup, as Poor Ed did.
>
> [Massive over-quoting snipped -- please quote just the specific part
> you're responding to, if any]

Hey, hey - that wasn't very over-quoted. I've seen entire pages quoted to
add one word - AOL.
Although that will probably be replaced by WEBTV in the near future.

the softrat

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Aug 20, 2001, 10:57:34 PM8/20/01
to
On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:52:53 -0500, Boris Badenov
<bb...@frostbite.falls.state.mn.us> wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:54:12 GMT, "Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> wrote:
>
>|Is it customary to crosspost to both alt.fan.tolkien and
>|rec.arts.books.tolkien?
>|That seems to happen a lot.
>

>My impression, and there is nothing official about any of this, is that RABT handles the Elven
>linguistic issues, most of the discussion of the Silmarillion, scholarly questions like whether the
>Balrogs had wings, whether barrow-blades kill Nazgul, and so on. AFT seems to focus on some of the
>...shall we say..more superficial threads like who would win, Gandalf vs. the White Star? [Oops,
>wrong newsgroup...]
>

In general, RABT is more serious and scholarly and AFT is sillier and
more stupid.

You should *never* post in RABT!

(Of course *all* religion threads get stupid sooner or later.)


the softrat
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Discordianism: Where reality is a figment of your imagination

David Sulger

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Aug 21, 2001, 2:29:30 AM8/21/01
to
Michael O'Neill wrote:

>You're another clueless newbie! Two in
>one week! I love it!

>LOL!

Michael, you better hope the alt.flame regs don't see this post. They'd
get a lot of fun out of that statement. That is, assumming they're even
bothering anymore.

--Dave

ds50.geo @ yahoo.com

Assorted Tolkien stuff: http://www.geocities.com/ds50.geo/tolkien

David Sulger

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Aug 21, 2001, 3:04:36 AM8/21/01
to
Leo Fellmann wrote:

>Is it customary to crosspost to both
>alt.fan.tolkien and rec.arts.books.tolkien?
>That seems to happen a lot.

More or less. Both groups have about the same group of people. Newbies
generally tend to tubmle across one group or the other. They either
tend to stick with one group or end up crossposting to both.

I think this is all discussed in Steuard's FAQ. There should be a link
to it somewhere, he posts it every four days. Occasionally, someone
tries to separate the two groups, but the attempt fails -- the regulars
in this group seem to resist any amount of control (including myself).

David Sulger

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Aug 21, 2001, 3:08:06 AM8/21/01
to
Boris Badenov wrote:

>My impression, and there is nothing
>official about any of this, is that RABT
>handles the Elven linguistic issues, most
>of the discussion of the Silmarillion,
>scholarly questions like whether the
>Balrogs had wings, whether
>barrow-blades kill Nazgul, and so on.
>AFT seems to focus on some of the
>...shall we say..more superficial threads
>like who would win, Gandalf vs. the
>White Star?

Actually, that is more or less official. In practice however, no one
cares. :)

Also, TEUNC occasionally seems to like to use aft as its personal
playground.

Öjevind Lång

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Aug 21, 2001, 8:56:23 AM8/21/01
to
Steuard Jensen hath written:

>Quoth "Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> in article:

[snip]

>> I must say, I've just got into this NG and honestly, it seems like I
>> should look at alt.fan.tolkien instead. Maybe it's quieter?
>
>If you ignore the giant, sprawling "Creation in Tolkien and Lewis"
>thread (and its descendants), it's really not too bad (or so I like to
>think, anyway). I really do hope that the folks discussing, well,
>whatever it is they're discussing there now (capital punishment?) will
>come to their senses before too long and get back to discussing
>Tolkien: that thread seems to be sapping a good bit of the energy that
>the group would normally put toward actual on-topic discussions. The
>Barrow-blades thread has been interesting, though, and there have been
>a handful of other interesting on-topic discussions recently, too. :)


Hey, don't trask the Giant Thread! Every time you do that it swells to twice
its previous size; you work like an aphrodisiac on it.

Öjevind


Öjevind Lång

unread,
Aug 21, 2001, 9:54:02 AM8/21/01
to
David Sulger hath written:

>Boris Badenov wrote:

>>My impression, and there is nothing
>official about any of this, is that RABT
>handles the Elven linguistic issues, most
>of the discussion of the Silmarillion,
>scholarly questions like whether the
>Balrogs had wings, whether
>barrow-blades kill Nazgul, and so on.
>AFT seems to focus on some of the
>...shall we say..more superficial threads
>like who would win, Gandalf vs. the
>White Star?

>Actually, that is more or less official. In practice however, no one
cares. :)

Or at least relatively few.

>Also, TEUNC occasionally seems to like to use aft as its personal
playground.

AFT is our ancestral homeland. We like to pay it our respects.

Öjevind


Michael O'Neill

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Aug 21, 2001, 9:58:03 AM8/21/01
to
David Sulger wrote:
>
> Michael O'Neill wrote:
>
> >You're another clueless newbie! Two in
> >one week! I love it!
>
> >LOL!
>
> Michael, you better hope the alt.flame regs don't see this post. They'd
> get a lot of fun out of that statement. That is, assumming they're even
> bothering anymore.

<bows in acknowledgement and applauds Dave's perceptive abilities>

Thank you Dave.

Its nice to see a *real* TROLL being recognised as to its final intended
victims.

And no, I don't think they're lurking.

I think its the film season somewhere so possibly their RL personas are
taking over, although the "annexation" of soc.culture.scottish was an
interesting act, possibly [or so I thought] a prelude to the usual
pre-Christmas invasion here [why anyone would want to invade a
*Scottish* newsgroup...].

<shakes head>

Later.

M.

Michael O'Neill

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Aug 21, 2001, 10:06:25 AM8/21/01
to
Stan Brown wrote:
<snip>

> Yes, fairly customary. A minority of threads are on just one or the
> other newsgroup, though. It's _not_ customary to crosspost to some
> religious newsgroup, as Poor Ed did.
<snip>

*mheh*

"Poor Ed" apparently crossposted *from* that religious group, where he
appears to be a regular, although I'm not sure how far back his
"tenancy" goes.

FWIW

M.

Michael O'Neill

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Aug 21, 2001, 10:07:41 AM8/21/01
to
Öjevind Lång wrote:
<snip>

> >Also, TEUNC occasionally seems to like to use aft as its personal
> playground.
>
> AFT is our ancestral homeland. We like to pay it our respects.

And disrespects.

M.

Alatar

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Aug 21, 2001, 5:10:24 PM8/21/01
to

"David Sulger" wrote:
> I think this is all discussed in Steuard's FAQ. There should be a link
> to it somewhere, he posts it every four days.

Tolkien Newsgroups FAQ
http://home.uchicago.edu/~sbjensen/Tolkien/TolkNgFaq.html

--
Alatar

Jeff George

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Aug 21, 2001, 5:59:29 PM8/21/01
to
Ed Poor wrote:
>
>
> Actually, all I wanted was some discussion on human value and
> perfection, and I had a 'bright idea' that my favorite book might be a
> good reference point. I bet Bilbo had no idea how valuable it was. May
> I now segue into speculating whether humanity has any idea how
> valuable Jesus is, or would that be trolling?
>

Any mention of Jesus would be trolling.

--

=====================================================================
Mark my words, believe my soul lives on.
Don't worry now that I have gone, I've gone beyond to seek the truth.
When you know that your time is close at hand
Maybe then you'll begin to understand
Life down there is just a strange illusion.
- Steve Harris
=====================================================================
Jeff George

Jeff George

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Aug 21, 2001, 6:00:14 PM8/21/01
to
Michael O'Neill wrote:
>
>
> As for placing a vlue on Jesus, what a question to raise!!!
>

Frank Herbert could put a value on this Jesus guy, by the amount of
water you could squeeze out of him.

Jeff George

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Aug 21, 2001, 6:05:56 PM8/21/01
to
the softrat wrote:
>
>
> (Of course *all* religion threads get stupid sooner or later.)
>

Typically sooner more than later.

Jeff George

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Aug 21, 2001, 6:06:50 PM8/21/01
to
Ed Poor wrote:
>
> So I can't mention Jesus on a newsgroup devoted to a book by a devoted
> Catholic, eh?
>

That is correct.

Conrad Dunkerson

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Aug 21, 2001, 6:37:51 PM8/21/01
to
"Leo Fellmann" <l.fel...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:8Gfg7.614$TT6.1...@nnrp4.proxad.net...

> Is it customary to crosspost to both alt.fan.tolkien and
> rec.arts.books.tolkien?
> That seems to happen a lot.

If you want to post something to both groups it is better to
cross-post than to post it independently to each. This is because
only one copy of the message is actually sent if it is
crossposted. Also, many newsreaders recognize that the message
has already been read in another newsgroup and do not display it
again when you get to the next group.

That said, there is no reason that something MUST be posted to
both groups unless you want to get the widest distribution /
comments possible.

Michael O'Neill

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Aug 21, 2001, 7:53:32 PM8/21/01
to
Jeff George wrote:
>
> Michael O'Neill wrote:
> >
> >
> > As for placing a vlue on Jesus, what a question to raise!!!
> >
>
> Frank Herbert could put a value on this Jesus guy, by the amount of
> water you could squeeze out of him.

Well caught that man!

M.

Raven

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Aug 21, 2001, 4:36:41 PM8/21/01
to
"Laurie Forbes" <rfor...@maine.rr.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:yX8g7.316047$EF2.39...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...

> > ... Sheesh.

> You watch your language, mister!

Easee, woman! There was six letters in thaht woerd, not for!

Voron.


Laurie Forbes

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Aug 21, 2001, 10:48:15 PM8/21/01
to

"Rav