"But", "And", and "For" in the Silmarillion
Trishia Rose
I was reading the Silmarillion and it dawned on me that Tolkien
*loves* to begin sentances with but, for, or and. Of course these are
common words, but it seems to me he uses them, particularly as the
first word in a sentance, quite a lot more than one would
statistically expect. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a style
unique to him or is it a common style used elsewhere? And is it more
likely a result of Christopher's meddlings or Tolkien himself?
Or am I just seeing things?
Trishia the Tolkien Newbie :-)
Aris Katsaris
"Trishia Rose" <adomp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b2e78b75.04040...@posting.google.com...
> Hey,
>
> I was reading the Silmarillion and it dawned on me that Tolkien
> *loves* to begin sentances with but, for, or and. Of course these are
> common words, but it seems to me he uses them, particularly as the
> first word in a sentance, quite a lot more than one would
> statistically expect. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a style
> unique to him or is it a common style used elsewhere?
It's the most common way to begin sentences in the bible, I believe.
Aris Katsaris
Christopher Kreuzer
> I was reading the Silmarillion and it dawned on me that Tolkien
> *loves* to begin sentances with but, for, or and.
And note that all the chapter titles start: "Of....."
Some say there are rules against starting sentences with 'and' or 'but'.
But I think it is a very effective style.
And there is nothing wrong with it at all!
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
Doug McDonald
>
> Hey,
>
> I was reading the Silmarillion and it dawned on me that Tolkien
> *loves* to begin sentances with but, for, or and. Of course these are
> common words, but it seems to me he uses them, particularly as the
> first word in a sentance, quite a lot more than one would
> statistically expect. Has anyone else noticed this?
Yes
> Is this a style
> unique to him or is it a common style used elsewhere? And is it more
> likely a result of Christopher's meddlings or Tolkien himself?
Oh it's Tolkien himself. He probably would have loved to have
gotten rid of punctuation, especially the period, and connected
sentences with just "and" or "but". This was the norm in
certain periods of Old English. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle uses
it, for example (and usually starts an entry with the word "here",
as in "876 Here Somebody Died" with "here" meaning the
year (876)).
Doug McDonald
Stan Brown
> I was reading the Silmarillion and it dawned on me that Tolkien
>*loves* to begin sentances with but, for, or and. Of course these are
>common words, but it seems to me he uses them, particularly as the
>first word in a sentance, quite a lot more than one would
>statistically expect. Has anyone else noticed this?
I've never noticed that he does it specially frequently.
But "you can't start a sentence with 'but' or 'and'" is a myth, like
"a preposition is bad to end a sentence with."
>And is it more
>likely a result of Christopher's meddlings or Tolkien himself?
[through clenched teeth] Must ... not ... take ... bait.
--
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http://OakRoadSystems.com
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Aris Katsaris
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Oqjcc.3572$fV.34...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Trishia Rose <adomp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I was reading the Silmarillion and it dawned on me that Tolkien
> > *loves* to begin sentances with but, for, or and.
>
> And note that all the chapter titles start: "Of....."
> Some say there are rules against starting sentences with 'and' or 'but'.
There aren't. :-)
Aris Katsaris
Glenn Holliday
>
> Hey,
>
> I was reading the Silmarillion and it dawned on me that Tolkien
> *loves* to begin sentances with but, for, or and. Of course these are
> common words, but it seems to me he uses them, particularly as the
> first word in a sentance, quite a lot more than one would
> statistically expect. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a style
> unique to him or is it a common style used elsewhere? And is it more
> likely a result of Christopher's meddlings or Tolkien himself?
It's part of Tolkien's style to make his writings on heroic topics
sound more like old English or heroic-era language.
--
Glenn Holliday holl...@acm.org
Kid E. Poole
And his use of "but" is often quite bizarre, as
the clauses (or sentences) which are joined by
the word often have nothing in common, and are
not in any way contradictory. The Elves ate their
buttered scones. But that rain began falling the
next week. But Varda had created Uranus in the
deepness of time. That sort of thing.
Aris Katsaris
"Kid E. Poole" <Kat...@pocono.org> wrote in message
news:6qncc.12906$yN6....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Trishia Rose wrote:
>
> > Hey,
> >
> > I was reading the Silmarillion and it dawned on me that Tolkien
> > *loves* to begin sentances with but, for, or and. Of course these are
> > common words, but it seems to me he uses them, particularly as the
> > first word in a sentance, quite a lot more than one would
> > statistically expect. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a style
> > unique to him or is it a common style used elsewhere? And is it more
> > likely a result of Christopher's meddlings or Tolkien himself?
> > Or am I just seeing things?
> >
> > Trishia the Tolkien Newbie :-)
>
> And his use of "but" is often quite bizarre, as
> the clauses (or sentences) which are joined by
> the word often have nothing in common, and are
> not in any way contradictory.
Can you offer examples from the text?
Aris Katsaris
Stan Brown
>And his use of "but" is often quite bizarre, as
>the clauses (or sentences) which are joined by
>the word often have nothing in common, and are
>not in any way contradictory. The Elves ate their
>buttered scones. But that rain began falling the
>next week. But Varda had created Uranus in the
>deepness of time. That sort of thing.
Just curious -- do you have an actual example? I don't say he never
did that, but he sure didn't do it often enough that I noticed.
the softrat
wrote:
least). Remember that Tolkien was a Classics scholar at Oxford before
he was an English Language scholar.
the softrat
"I feel like I'm beating my head against a dead horse."
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics. No
matter if you win or lose you're still retarded.
BaronjosefR
>>*loves* to begin sentances with but, for, or and. Of course these are
>>common words, but it seems to me he uses them, particularly as the
>>first word in a sentance, quite a lot more than one would
>>statistically expect. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a style
>>unique to him or is it a common style used elsewhere? And is it more
>>likely a result of Christopher's meddlings or Tolkien himself?
>> Or am I just seeing things?
>>
>This style is extremely common in Ancient Greek and Old English (at
>least). Remember that Tolkien was a Classics scholar at Oxford before
>he was an English Language scholar.
As well, Tolkien taught many classes examingin biblical writing as literature.
Though I understand his Catholic upbringing, and maybe even becasue of it
(along with his desire to create a fully formed mythos) , it seems as though he
consciously attempted to give the Simarillion and related wrtings a sense of
style very reminiscent of the New Testament.
TeaLady (Mari C.)
news:c9b4709u8ercal5t6...@4ax.com:
> On 5 Apr 2004 12:45:27 -0700, adomp...@yahoo.com (Trishia
> Rose) wrote:
>> I was reading the Silmarillion and it dawned on me that
>> Tolkien
>>*loves* to begin sentances with but, for, or and. Of course
>>these are common words, but it seems to me he uses them,
>>particularly as the first word in a sentance, quite a lot
>>more than one would statistically expect. Has anyone else
>>noticed this? Is this a style unique to him or is it a
>>common style used elsewhere? And is it more likely a result
>>of Christopher's meddlings or Tolkien himself?
>> Or am I just seeing things?
>>
> This style is extremely common in Ancient Greek and Old
> English (at least). Remember that Tolkien was a Classics
> scholar at Oxford before he was an English Language scholar.
>
Is this something left over from oral styles ? I've noticed in
many older writings, and/or stories closely based on oral
tradition, the seemingly unrelated connection of this here and
that there. Sort of a variation on the modern "Then the teacher
came back, and he wasn't in the gym at all, he was sitting on a
bench" indicates bench "And oh, he was sitting right here; oh
yeah, and the bus was late; and, oh yeah, the clothelines were
full."
The bits and pieces are related to events in the full tale
(usually), just not entirely to the original subject of the
sentence.
--
mc
Terry
Happens a few times in the works of Edgar Allen Poet, too.
--Terry
For a good Prime, call:
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