What Was Tolkien's Educational Level?
Tilion
the U.S. equivalent of a Master's degree (2 year graduate degree in the
U.S.); i.e., he was not a Doctor of Philosophy (4 year graduate degree
in the U.S.). Is this true? Is this why you never hear anyone refer to
him as "Doctor" Tolkien? (Here in the U.S., a "professor" generally has
a PhD and is alternately referred to as "professor" or "doctor.") I find
it hard to believe that a "professor" at Oxford would not have had a
PhD.
Davis624
been there along time
Marcus Flavin
>
> i've heard him refered to as a fellow of cambridge, but that only means he'd
> been there along time
know, ever a fellow of a Cambridge College (the University doesn't have
fellows.) A fellow is a member of the governing body, and Tolkien was at
various times, a fellow of various Oxford Colleges, ending at Merton. He
was also Merton Professor of English, which is a University post.
Marcus
Davis624
college at oxford for the teetotalers ready to pounce of my mistake
Marcus Flavin
PhD/DPhil. Professor, particularly at Oxford is a far more eminent title
and refers to a job someone does rather than research they have
produced. Were he working today Tolkien would have been expected to
complete a doctorate, and judging by his published academic work would
have had little difficulty, but it wasn't necessary then, so he didn't.
In fact it was quite rare.
Marcus
Mike Scott Rohan
from Tilion <qu...@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> contains these words:
> Someone I know keeps insisting that Tolkien only had a degree which is
> the U.S. equivalent of a Master's degree (2 year graduate degree in the
> U.S.); i.e., he was not a Doctor of Philosophy (4 year graduate degree
> in the U.S.). Is this true? Is this why you never hear anyone refer to
> him as "Doctor" Tolkien? (Here in the U.S., a "professor" generally has
> a PhD and is alternately referred to as "professor" or "doctor.") I find
> it hard to believe that a "professor" at Oxford would not have had a
> PhD.
These days that would be surprising, yes; but it is in fact the case.
Tolkien did not have a doctorate, and indeed I have seen one
half-witted US biographer claim that he didn't even have a "proper"
Master's, but an honorary degree awarded to college servants. This is
because the Oxford & Cambridge MA is awarded to BAs after a
probationary period, and without any extra work. This often sounds
odd to Americans, but it reflects the academic level of the BA
courses (as my wife, a Stanford, Cal., and Oxford graduate, can testify!).
College servants or officials are sometimes awarded an honorary MA by
the college, as a mark of respect and to give them equal status with
the graduates.
In Tolkien's day there wasn't the insistence on titles in academic
life, or the publish-or-perish mentality that rules today. This is
why, on paper, it looks as if he didn't do much compared to modern
academics. But what he did do was teach, and that, rather than
publication or degree-hunting, was how his research was passed on,
what built him his reputation at Leeds and got him the Oxford chair.
Incidentally, I have heard from one of his successors at Leeds that
his early work on the OED was of doctoral level; but taking a
doctorate then cost money, and he had a family to support. He wasn't
the only example.
Incidentally, in Britain "professor" is not a general term for an
academic, as in the USA, but generally only given to the absolute
head of department and holder of a chair.
--
mike.sco...@asgard.zetnet.co.uk
SMGCFAM
I believe that the various answers to this question are quite accurate. In my
own memory, when I was a graduate student at University College Dublin in the
1970's many, many of the faculty there did not have Ph.D's or D.Phil.'s or
whatever. My own advisor, Edward James, had an MA from Oxford (I believe he
did eventually complete a doctorate) and I don't think anyone would be able to
challenge his academic credentials. One of the greatest scholars, teachers,
minds that I ever met, Denis Bethel, also at UCD had a B.Litt. which (and I may
be wrong) is a post-graduate research degree. Fellow Inkling Owen Barfield,
another great mind to judge by the few writings I have sampled of his also had
a B.Litt. Another Inkling, Charles Williams had only an honorary MA (again, I
could be wrong) and he had published a work on Dante. Years ago, when I was a
naive and callow undergraduate I remarked on a person not having a Ph.D. and
the two MA's whom I said this to, older than me, both at small U.S. Colleges,
looked at each other and laughed--one commented with sympathetic pity that a
degree does not ability make. Don't be impressed by paper: there are a lot of
worthies out there who might not have even finished college but are wizards in
their understanding of the arts and literature..self-taught polymaths. As for
me, I would put a high school diploma earned in New York city public schools in
the early 1900's above most American B.A.'s of this day and if you knew my
father and uncles you would too.
William
Tilion wrote:
> Someone I know keeps insisting that Tolkien only had a degree which is
> the U.S. equivalent of a Master's degree (2 year graduate degree in the
> U.S.); i.e., he was not a Doctor of Philosophy (4 year graduate degree
> in the U.S.). Is this true? Is this why you never hear anyone refer to
> him as "Doctor" Tolkien? (Here in the U.S., a "professor" generally has
> a PhD and is alternately referred to as "professor" or "doctor.") I find
> it hard to believe that a "professor" at Oxford would not have had a
> PhD.
There is a great divide between the American and English academic systems,
and also between modern practice and what was in effect in Tolkien's day.
Tolkien entered Exeter College as an Exhibitioner (trans: an undergraduate
on a low-rent scholarship). He originally "read" (trans: majored in)
Classics, but changed to the English School. It took him therefore 4 rather
than 3 years to receive his BA.
After WWI Tolkien first worked on the OED and then took a faculty posting
at the University of Leeds. He shortly was made Professor there: a signal
honor, since he was very young. Note that English universities to not call
all their faculty "professors". That distinction only goes to what in the
US we would call "full professors" or even "chaired professors." Instead of
"Assistant Professors" and "Associate Professors" the Brits have "Readers"
and "Lecturers" (C. S. Lewis' title the whole of his Oxford career).
In 1924 Tolkien was elected to the Rawlinson and Bosworth Chair of
Anglo-Saxon at Oxford, a University position. That Chair also carried with
it a Fellowship in Pembroke College. In 1945 Tolkien was elected to the
even more prestigious chair of Merton Professor of English Language and
Literature, and his Fellowship was transferred to Merton College.
Tolkien like most Oxford faculty was awarded his M.A. by virtue of having
been in residence for two years beyond his B.A. That's all it took; he
never took a graduate-school course. Very late in life he started to
receive honorary doctorates, including one from Oxford. So it was not
correct (except at the very end) to call him "Dr. Tolkien." "Professor"
was proper, although Tolkien was conservative enough to dislike it, and
preferred "Mr." Lewis was "Mr" throughout his time at Oxford, only
warranting "Professor" when he took the chair at Cambridge.
It should also be pointed out that an Oxford BA is easily the equivalent of
an American MA: undergraduates in the Oxbridge system don't have
"electives"; all their work lies in their chosen field of study. The best
philosophy professor I ever had (a full professor) only claimed a BA Oxon.
--
_________________________________________________
William Cloud Hicklin "And he named him craven,
soli...@gamewood.net and lord of slaves"
_________________________________________________
Graham Lockwood
Wow! Very impressive!
||// // - ------===**O**===------- - || //
|// // Graham Lockwood ||//
(/ // gsl...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu |//
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(/ The dreams stuff is made of //||
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Cuteboy UK
Davis624 wrote in message
<199809031205...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>i've heard him refered to as a fellow of cambridge, but that only means
he'd
>been there along time
The temptation for my Oxford-oriented self to reply at extraordinary length
is almost unbearable! Fortunately, I have more stamina than Wilde.
Lee
Tilion
Marc A. Moniz
>
> Someone I know keeps insisting that Tolkien only had a degree which is
> the U.S. equivalent of a Master's degree (2 year graduate degree in the
> U.S.); i.e., he was not a Doctor of Philosophy (4 year graduate degree
> in the U.S.). Is this true? Is this why you never hear anyone refer to
> him as "Doctor" Tolkien? (Here in the U.S., a "professor" generally has
> a PhD and is alternately referred to as "professor" or "doctor.") I find
> it hard to believe that a "professor" at Oxford would not have had a
> PhD.
The term "professor" is used rather losely in the US, particularly by
students who generally use it for anyone teaching at the college level.
As I understand it, in England and the rest of Europe the term
"professor" has a more strict usage (only meant for those who hold a
professorship post) and is more prestiguous than "Doctor" (i.e, person
with a PhD). Remember, England has a different system than ours and they
go about it differently than we do.
Students should be aware of the difference when dealing with their
instructors. I have known a few from the European school who did not
liked to be called by "Doctor" (and considered it rather disrespectful).
Joseph Major
: Someone I know keeps insisting that Tolkien only had a degree which is
: the U.S. equivalent of a Master's degree (2 year graduate degree in the
: U.S.); i.e., he was not a Doctor of Philosophy (4 year graduate degree
: in the U.S.). Is this true? Is this why you never hear anyone refer to
: him as "Doctor" Tolkien? (Here in the U.S., a "professor" generally has
: a PhD and is alternately referred to as "professor" or "doctor.") I find
: it hard to believe that a "professor" at Oxford would not have had a
: PhD.
He had a four-year degree -- I would say "A.B." but Humphrey
Carpenter does not seem to use the term, from a quick check of the
biography. Went up in 1911, graduated with First Class Honors in 1916.
But he got an honorary Doctorate of Letters from Oxford in 1972.
Joseph T Major
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