Creature Question
Darren S. A. George
I'm coming up with a list of Tolkien's creatures, and I'm wondering if I've
missed any. I've got elves, dwarves, hobbits, worgs, giant eagles, orcs
(goblins), barrow-wights (and ring-wraiths, of course), dragons, balrogs (with
wings or without), gnomes, trolls, ents (and huorns), giant spiders (from the
ones who span webs at Bilbo to the really big Shelob and Ungoliant) and the
meagerly-described watcher in the water. Any others? Did a sea-serpent ever
appear in any of the books?
Darren S. A. George
The Mad Alchemist
http://www.mad-alchemy.com/heraldry
wiljoe
wrote:
Well there are oliphants I suppose -- but youve left out other animals
that exist in real life also, like hounds & horses & as sam would say
"coneys"
Bill.
Darren S. A. George
something along the lines of...
>Well there are oliphants I suppose -- but youve left out other animals
>that exist in real life also, like hounds & horses & as sam would say
>"coneys"
I'm not counting normal creatures. An oliphant, as far as I could tell, was a
variety of elephant, and a coney is just a rabbit. And Shadowfax, though not a
normal horse, was still a horse.
Speaking of which, anyone ever listen to a group called Shadowfax?
Bastard Toadflax
"Darren S. A. George" wrote:
> On the morn of Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:55:44 GMT, I thought I heard wiljoe whisper
> something along the lines of...
>
> >Well there are oliphants I suppose -- but youve left out other animals
> >that exist in real life also, like hounds & horses & as sam would say
> >"coneys"
>
> I'm not counting normal creatures. An oliphant, as far as I could tell, was a
> variety of elephant, and a coney is just a rabbit. And Shadowfax, though not a
> normal horse, was still a horse.
>
> Speaking of which, anyone ever listen to a group called Shadowfax?
A group of what?
Sam (What were they sayin'?) Sands
buh...@ecn.ab.ca
: Greetings!
: I'm coming up with a list of Tolkien's creatures, and I'm wondering if I've
: missed any. I've got elves, dwarves, hobbits, worgs, giant eagles, orcs
: (goblins), barrow-wights (and ring-wraiths, of course), dragons, balrogs (with
: wings or without), gnomes, trolls, ents (and huorns), giant spiders (from the
: ones who span webs at Bilbo to the really big Shelob and Ungoliant) and the
: meagerly-described watcher in the water. Any others? Did a sea-serpent ever
: appear in any of the books?
don't forget werewolves (possibly the same as wargs, possibly not) and
vampires, both mentioned in silm. and of course the famous Kine of Araw.
then there are the neekerbreekers....
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Buhr buh...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Savour the Irony! bu...@infinity.gmcc.ab.ca
http://freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~buhrger
Norseman
Darren S. A. George <ai...@tellin.com> wrote in article
<E_6z7.32223$ev2....@www.newsranger.com>...
> I'm coming up with a list of Tolkien's creatures, and I'm wondering if
I've
> missed any. I've got elves, dwarves, hobbits, worgs, giant eagles, orcs
> (goblins), barrow-wights (and ring-wraiths, of course), dragons, balrogs
(with
> wings or without), gnomes, trolls, ents (and huorns), giant spiders (from
the
> ones who span webs at Bilbo to the really big Shelob and Ungoliant) and
the
> meagerly-described watcher in the water. Any others?
Just out of curiosity, where did gnomes appear? I just don't recall.
You have mountain giants (or whatever they're called) in The Hobbit. The
Uruk Hai, a very different breed of yrch, though not a separate race.
wiljoe
He may mean the petty-dwarves.
bill.
Michael O'Neill
>
>
> I'm coming up with a list of Tolkien's creatures, and I'm wondering if I've
That's w-a-r-g-s, IIRC.
You could also add animals which were more than *normal*
Shadowfax
The Wingéd Terror the Nazgul rode
The Black animals which spied for Sauron and Saruman
The race of half-men/half-orcs bred by Saruman
The race of sunlight-resistant Orcs bred by Saruman
The Wild Men of the Woods, a distinct species
Goldberry, a nature spirit /Maia
Tom Bombadil, a whatever-you-want-him-to-be kind of creature
Old Man Willow, not really Huorn and far more powerful
The Cats of Queen Berúthiel
And, since you've already included flora, you could add Kingsfoil, or
Asea Aranion [sp?] which had soverign[sic] properties against the Blacjk
Breath and woulds made by weapons of the Enemy in General
And don't forget Gollum, a "creature" if ever there was one!
<hmmmm... you could nearly add Gríma Wormtongue, too...>
M.
Jon
> I'm coming up with a list of Tolkien's creatures, and I'm wondering if I've
> missed any. I've got elves, dwarves, hobbits, worgs, giant eagles, orcs
> (goblins), barrow-wights (and ring-wraiths, of course), dragons, balrogs (with
> wings or without), gnomes, trolls, ents (and huorns), giant spiders (from the
> ones who span webs at Bilbo to the really big Shelob and Ungoliant) and the
> meagerly-described watcher in the water. Any others?
Fell Beasts!
Unnamed things that gnaw!!
Jon.
--
_ _ _
/ \ / \ / \ jgh...@argonet.co.uk * j...@acornarcade.com
( J | o | n )http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/jghall/
\_/ \_/ \_/ 7, High Street, Balrog Cuttings, TEUNC.
Run eels, run!!!
TradeSurplus
>Just out of curiosity, where did gnomes appear? I just don't recall.
Gnomes was the original name Tolkien used for Noldor before he decided to
stop using commonly recognised names and invent some of his own.
As such I don't think that Gnomes count as a species of creature in ME
unless Darren wants to list all subcategories of Elves as separate
creatures.
Trade.
TradeSurplus
>I'm coming up with a list of Tolkien's creatures, and I'm wondering if I've
>missed any.
In adition to those already posted in other replies, you may want to
consider Beorn and the Beornings as a separate species of Werebear or
something.
Trade.
Ermanna
Darren S. A. George made dwagin-sized wripples in the Force:
> Greetings!
Yello!
> I'm coming up with a list of Tolkien's creatures, and I'm wondering if I've
> missed any. I've got elves, dwarves, hobbits, worgs, giant eagles, orcs
> (goblins), barrow-wights (and ring-wraiths, of course), dragons, balrogs (with
> wings or without), gnomes, trolls, ents (and huorns), giant spiders (from the
> ones who span webs at Bilbo to the really big Shelob and Ungoliant) and the
> meagerly-described watcher in the water. Any others? Did a sea-serpent ever
> appear in any of the books?
You haven't mentioned Ainur.
> Darren S. A. George
> The Mad Alchemist
> http://www.mad-alchemy.com/heraldry
Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight, Lady of Rivendell,
Headmistress of the AFT/RABT Charm School
Elbereth Gtilhoniel!
quendeatan
wrote:
>Greetings!
Crebain? We musn't forget the Crebain!
Quendeatan
quendeatan
wrote:
>Greetings!
forgot:
the Woses
the Swamp-things (i forget what they're called)
Will-O' the Wisps (swamp gassers)
The human qualities of Caradhras
Any swords or weapons with personalities (the ring?)
the things in the Paths of the Dead
Quendeatan
Michael Kohrs
wrote:
>The race of half-men/half-orcs bred by Saruman
>The race of sunlight-resistant Orcs bred by Saruman
What makes you think that there were two different breeds created by
Saruman?
Mnkohrz
Michael O'Neill
There are several references to men that look like Orcs [half-Orcs] and
Orcs which can withstand sunlight [the Uruk-Hai] in the LotR. All are
referred to in terms of being Saruman's creatures. The first hint of
them occurs in the Prancing Pony.
'The Men and Dwarves were mostly talking of distant events and telling
flews of a kind that was becoming only too familiar. There was trouble
away in the South, and it seemed that the Men who had come up the
Greenway were on the move, looking for lands where they could find some
peace. The Bree-folk were sympathetic, but plainly not very ready to
take a large number of strangers into their little land. One of the
travellers, a squint-eyed ill-favoured fellow, was foretelling that more
and more people would be coming north in the near future. 'If room isn't
found for them, they'll find it for themselves. They've a right to live,
same as other folk,' he said loudly. The local inhabitants did not look
pleased at the prospect.'
...
''You must not count on that!' said Strider sharply. 'They will return.
And more are coming. There are others. I know their number. I know these
Riders.' He paused, and his eyes were cold and hard. 'And there are some
folk in Bree who are not to be trusted,' he went on. 'Bill Ferny, for
instance. He has an evil name in the Bree-land, and queer folk call at
his house. You must have noticed him among the company: a swarthy
sneering fellow. He was very close with one of the Southern strangers,
and they slipped out together just after your "accident". Not all of
those Southerners mean well; and as for Ferny, he would sell anything to
anybody; or make mischief for amusement.''
...
'However, in the meanwhile for all Mr. Butterbur knew his money was gone
for good, or for bad. And he had other troubles. For there was a great
commotion as soon as the remaining guests were astir and heard news of
the raid on the inn. The southern travellers had lost several horses and
blamed the innkeeper loudly, until it became known that one of their own
number had also disappeared in the night, none other than Bill Ferny's
squint-eyed companion. Suspicion fell on him at once.'
...
'The hobbits took no notice of the inquisitive heads that peeped out of
doors, or popped over walls and fences, as they passed. But as they drew
near to the further gate, Frodo saw a dark ill-kept house behind a thick
hedge: the last house in the village. In one of the windows he caught a
glimpse of a sallow face with sly, slanting eyes; but it vanished at
once.
'So that's where that southerner is hiding!' he thought. 'He looks more
than half like a goblin.'
So that is the first hint of the race of Humans tainted by orc-blood
bred by Saruman. From the South he came, a vanguard of one for Saruman's
later invasion of the Shire.
Saruman's regard for humans is made clear by Uglúk
'Aye, we must stick together,' growled Uglúk. 'I don't trust you little
swine. You've no guts outside your own sties. But for us you'd all have
run away. We are the fighting Uruk-hai! We slew the great warrior. We
took the prisoners. We are the servants of Saruman the Wise, the White
Hand: the Hand that gives us man's-flesh to eat. We came out of
Isengard, and led you here, and we shall lead you back by the way we
choose. I am Uglúk. I have spoken.'
And the difference between the races of Orcs and half-Orcs is also made
clear
'In the afternoon Uglúk's troop overtook the Northerners. They were
flagging in the rays of the bright sun, winter sun shining in a pale
cool sky though it was; their heads were down and their tongues lolling
out.
'Maggots!' jeered the Isengarders. 'You're cooked. The Whiteskins will
catch you and eat you. They're coming!''
Later on Treebeard comments as follows:
''I think that I now understand what he is up to. He is plotting to
become a Power. He has a mind of metal and wheels; and he does not care
for growing things, except as far as they serve him for the moment. And
now it is clear that he is a black traitor. He has taken up with foul
folk, with the Orcs. Brm, hoom! Worse than that: he has been doing
something to them; something dangerous. For these Isengarders are more
like wicked Men. It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great
Darkness that they cannot abide the Sun; but Saruman's Orcs can endure
it, even if they hate it. I wonder what he has done? Are they Men he has
ruined, or has he blended the races of Orcs and Men? That would be a
black evil!''
Then there are the comments of Gamling at Helm's Deep
'Aragorn looked at the pale stars, and at the moon, now sloping behind
the western hills that enclosed the valley. 'This is a night as long as
years,' he said. 'How long will the day tarry?'
'Dawn is not far off,' said Gamling, who had now climbed up beside him.
'But dawn will not help us, I fear.'
'Yet dawn is ever the hope of men,' said Aragorn.
'But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs and goblin-men that
the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun,'
said Gamling. 'And neither will the wild men of the hills. Do you not
hear their voices?'
'I hear them,' said Éomer; 'but they are only the scream of birds and
the bellowing of beasts to my ears.''
The confrontation between Aragorn and the Uruak-Hai
'At last Aragorn stood above the great gates, heedless of the darts of
the enemy. As he looked forth he saw the eastern sky grow pale. Then he
raised his empty hand, palm outward in token of parley.
The Orcs yelled and jeered. 'Come down! Come down!' they cried. 'If you
wish to speak to us, come down! Bring out your king! We are the fighting
Uruk-hai. We will fetch him from his hole, if he does not come. Bring
out your skulking king!'
'The king stays or comes at his own will,' said Aragorn.
'Then what are you doing here?' they answered. 'Why do you look out? Do
you wish to see the greatness of our army? We are the fighting
Uruk-hai.'
'I looked out to see the dawn,' said Aragorn.
'What of the dawn?' they jeered. 'We are the Uruk-hai: we do not stop
the fight for night or day, for fair weather or for storm. We come to
kill, by sun or moon. What of the dawn?'
'None knows what the new day shall bring him,' said Aragorn. 'Get you
gone, ere it turn to your evil.'
'Get down or we will shoot you from the wall,' they cried. 'This is no
parley. You have nothing to say.'
'I have still this to say,' answered Aragorn. 'No enemy has yet taken
the Hornburg. Depart, or not one of you will be spared. Not one will be
left alive to take back tidings to the North. You do not know your
peril.'
Then Merry's tale at Isengard
''Then all at once there was a tremendous stir. Trumpets blared and the
walls of Isengard echoed. We thought that we had been discovered, and
that battle was going to begin. But nothing of the sort. All Saruman's
people were marching away. I don't know much about this war, or about
the Horsemen of Rohan, but Saruman seems to have meant to finish off the
king and all his men with one final blow. He emptied Isengard. I saw the
enemy go: endless lines of marching Orcs; and troops of them mounted on
great wolves. And there were battalions of Men, too. Many of them
carried torches, and in the flare I could see their faces. Most of them
were ordinary men, rather tall and dark-haired, and grim but not
particularly evil-looking. But there were some others that were
horrible: man-high, but with goblin-faces, sallow, leering, squint-eyed.
Do you know, they reminded me at once of that Southerner at Bree: only
he was not so obviously orc-like as most of these were.'
'I thought of him too,' said Aragorn. 'We had many of these half-orcs to
deal with at Helm's Deep. It seems plain now that that Southerner was a
spy of Saruman's; but whether he was working with the Black Riders, or
for Saruman alone, I do not know. It is difficult with these evil folk
to know when they are in league, and when they are cheating one
another.''
Finally, the description of the ruffians in The Scouring of the SHire
'But in the village of Bywater all the houses and holes were shut, and
no one greeted them. They wondered at this, but they soon discovered the
reason of it. When they reached The Green Dragon, the last house on the
Hobbiton side, now lifeless and with broken windows, they were disturbed
to see half a dozen large ill-favoured Men lounging against the
inn-wall; they were squint-eyed and sallow-faced.
'Like that friend of Bill Ferny's at Bree,' said Sam.
'Like many that I saw at Isengard,' muttered Merry.'
So there you go.
HTH
M.
Paul Houlihan
> Just out of curiosity, where did gnomes appear? I just don't recall.
I get confused about gnomes, what are they? A cross between dwarves and
hobbits? Something else?
--
================================
Paul Houlihan
Email: ginger...@yahoo.co.uk
ICQ:129688666
"Gentlemen you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
Dr Strangelove
Astorian
> There are several references to men that look like Orcs [half-Orcs] and
> Orcs which can withstand sunlight [the Uruk-Hai] in the LotR. All are
> referred to in terms of being Saruman's creatures. The first hint of
> them occurs in the Prancing Pony.
>
<snip>
>Finally, the description of the ruffians in The Scouring of the SHire
>'But in the village of Bywater all the houses and holes were shut, and
>no one greeted them. They wondered at this, but they soon discovered the
>reason of it. When they reached The Green Dragon, the last house on the
>Hobbiton side, now lifeless and with broken windows, they were disturbed
>to see half a dozen large ill-favoured Men lounging against the
>inn-wall; they were squint-eyed and sallow-faced.
>'Like that friend of Bill Ferny's at Bree,' said Sam.
>'Like many that I saw at Isengard,' muttered Merry.'
> M.
Actually, to me, this suggests they were all the same breed, only some were
more orc like than others, (inherited more orc-genes?)
--
Astorian
William Hanson
>
> HTH
>
> M.
You quoted quite a bit there, typed by hand. If we could get about three
more posts like that, we'd have the E-book project of LOTR done. :)
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Michael Kohrs
wrote:
>Michael Kohrs wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:07:07 +0100, Michael O'Neill <o...@indigo.ie>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The race of half-men/half-orcs bred by Saruman
>> >The race of sunlight-resistant Orcs bred by Saruman
>>
>> What makes you think that there were two different breeds created by
>> Saruman?
>
>There are several references to men that look like Orcs [half-Orcs] and
>Orcs which can withstand sunlight [the Uruk-Hai] in the LotR. All are
>referred to in terms of being Saruman's creatures. The first hint of
>them occurs in the Prancing Pony.
[snip list of examples]
I'm not disputing the fact that Saruman "blended the races of orcs and
men" per se - only the contention that this necessarily resulted in
two or more breeds. As Astorian pointed out, there may only have been
one race - the Uruk-Hai - and the differences noted throughout the
LOTR were merely the individual differentiation typical of any
species. In other words, just as two people from the same family can
be vastly different, so the Uruk-Hai varied in the degree to which
they looked Orcish. I don't have any direct evidence for this theory,
of course, and your theory may still be correct, but I would prefer
something more convincing than the anecdotal evidence related by the
hobbits and Aragorn.
Mnkohrz
Norseman
<RYfz7.516$191.18...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>...
Aah yes, that's right. Thanks for clearing it up, I remember now.
Norseman
<9qks1a$d70$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>
> > Just out of curiosity, where did gnomes appear? I just don't recall.
>
> I get confused about gnomes, what are they? A cross between dwarves and
> hobbits? Something else?
Depends on which mythology, or which work of fantasy you look into.
Just another name for 'underdwellers', 'the wee folk', that exist in every
European country's mythological 'history'. Goblins, gnomes, elves,
faeries... all the same thing really, with a thousand different
appearances, depending on what stories you read.
Popular fantasy would rate them by D&D standards, a 'cousin' of Dwarf kin.
About the same height, either slimmer than dwarves, or about the same
rotund size, only less muscular (more fat). May or may not have pointy
ears, bulbuous or pointy noses. More technologically inclined than dwarves,
creating lots of crude mechanical machinery. Prefers to live unbderground
like dwarves, but are lesser stoneworkers.
quendeatan
<ginger...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Just out of curiosity, where did gnomes appear? I just don't recall.
>
>I get confused about gnomes, what are they? A cross between dwarves and
>hobbits? Something else?
Actually, I think Tolkien originally called his first Elvish language
Gnomish...maybe too the Quende were Gnomes to begin with...not the
little tinker fellas we all know and love, but elves just called
gnomes. Please don't take this for the gospel, we all know that the
Silm. is the gospel.
Quendeatan
Michael O'Neill
>
> > So there you go.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > M.
>
> You quoted quite a bit there, typed by hand. If we could get about three
> more posts like that, we'd have the E-book project of LOTR done. :)
You're not subscribed to alt.binaries.e-book, are you, by any chance?
M.
Michael O'Neill
And Gamling the old! And Treebeard!
Seriously though. You're reading a book. All there is, is anecdotal
evidence.
Tolkien himself was pretty confused over his own creations IIRC, and
didn't seem to know what to make of them. Creatures of Morgoth, Elves
corrupted by Morgoth, animals with intelligence, we just do not know.
But we may infer several things.
1. Saruman definitely cross-bred Orcs and Men.
2. One result was man-like Orcs, man-high with Orc facial
characteristics, the Southerners.
3. Another result was Orcs of greater stature then other Orcs, who could
also withstand the sun, the Uruk-Hai.
Whether you'd want to define these as being separate "races" or not is
not a point I'll argue over, but they had distinct physical and
behavioural characteristics and were from one origin. Saruman.
Humans BTW are all one *species*, even though there are several *races*.
FWIW
M.
TradeSurplus
>I'm not disputing the fact that Saruman "blended the races of orcs and
>men" per se - only the contention that this necessarily resulted in
>two or more breeds. As Astorian pointed out, there may only have been
>one race - the Uruk-Hai - and the differences noted throughout the
>LOTR were merely the individual differentiation typical of any
>species.
IMHO the best quote (of the ones Michael O'Neill listed) that indicates a
difference between half-orcs and Uruk-Hai is Merry's story at Isengard.
"He emptied Isengard. I saw the
enemy go: endless lines of marching Orcs; and troops of them mounted on
great wolves. And there were battalions of Men, too. Many of them
carried torches, and in the flare I could see their faces. Most of them
were ordinary men, rather tall and dark-haired, and grim but not
particularly evil-looking. But there were some others that were
horrible: man-high, but with goblin-faces, sallow, leering, squint-eyed."
It seems fairly clear from Helm's Deep that all of Saruman's Orcs are
Uruk-Hai. These are the Orcs referred to by Merry. He also refers to Men and
then to "some others", a third group, neither Men nor Uruk-Hai that are
halfway between Orcs and Men.
A less compelling quote is Gamling's where he calls the forces besieging
Helm's Deep "half-orcs and goblin-men". It could be argued that this implies
two separate groups, the half-orcs and the goblin-men. OTOH the names
Gamling used for both groups seem to mean basically the same thing.
The main argument against two separate breeds, IMHO, is that no-one except
Merry (and arguably Gamling) refers to two separate breeds when discussing
Saruman's creations. They all seem to refer to only new creation, sometimes
calling them half-orcs or debased men, sometimes calling them Uruk-Hai. Of
course, few people other than Saruman and his allies would actually know
what was going on so most people might only have ever seen either half-orcs
or Uruk-Hai.
Maybe the most compelling instance of this argument against is Gamling
again. He refers to the besieging forces as "half-orcs and goblin-men". You
can take this to be just repetition, different names for one species. Then,
when Aragorn challenges them from the gate the besiegers specifically
identify themselves as Uruk-Hai. This could mean that Gamling's "half-orcs
and goblin-men" and the Uruk-Hai are one and the same.
Personally I always considered Bill Ferny's friend and the invaders of the
Shire to be something different from the Uruk-Hai but I'm thinking about it
again in light of all those quotes.
Trade.
William Hanson
> > You quoted quite a bit there, typed by hand. If we could get about
three
> > more posts like that, we'd have the E-book project of LOTR done. :)
>
>
> You're not subscribed to alt.binaries.e-book, are you, by any chance?
>
> M.
Nope. Is it worth it? I've never enjoyed reading off the monitor. The
E-book remark was pure ribbing; I read elsewhere that Tolkien Estate nixxed
the idea of putting Tolkien's works in E-book form.
Russ
<ginger...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>> Just out of curiosity, where did gnomes appear? I just don't recall.
>
>I get confused about gnomes, what are they? A cross between dwarves and
>hobbits? Something else?
Gnomes is an early name for the Noldor.
Russ
Morgil Blackhope
Michael O'Neill kirjoitti viestissä <3BCDEFBE...@indigo.ie>...
>Michael Kohrs wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:07:07 +0100, Michael O'Neill <o...@indigo.ie>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The race of half-men/half-orcs bred by Saruman
>> >The race of sunlight-resistant Orcs bred by Saruman
>>
>> What makes you think that there were two different breeds created by
>> Saruman?
>
>There are several references to men that look like Orcs [half-Orcs] and
>Orcs which can withstand sunlight [the Uruk-Hai] in the LotR. All are
>referred to in terms of being Saruman's creatures.
What about this quote?(Gandalf in Moria)
"There are orcs, lots of them, and some are big and evil: Black *uruks*
of Mordor."
There is also a mention of Uruks from Barad-Dur in Book VI chapter two.
I´ve always thought that these were if not totally, very much the same as
Uruk-Hai.
Morgil
Katherine Tredwell
From Appendix F: "Orc is the form of the name that other races had
for this foul people as it was in the language of Rohan. In Sindarin it
was orch. Related, no doubt, was the word uruk of the Black Speech,
though this was applied as a rule only to the great soldier-orcs that at
this time issued from Mordor and Isengard. The lesser kinds were
called, especially by the Uruk-hai, snaga 'slave.' "
Compare to the scene in "The Land of Shadow" when Frodo and Sam
must hide from two orcs. The larger orc, obviously a servant of
Mordor, calls the smaller "snaga" and describes whom they are looking
for: "First they say it's a great Elf in bright armour, then it's a sort of
small dwarf-man, then it must be a pack of rebel Uruk-hai; or maybe
it's all the lot together." Presumably the rebellion is a reference to the
incident in the tower, in which case the Mordorian orcs are specifically
being called Uruk-*hai*. Hence, the suffix cannot be used as an
indicator of specifically Isengardish orcs (or, more specifically,
half-orcs), as I was going to argue when I sat down to write this.
Never let it be said that a Usenet discussion never changes anyone's
mind!
Katherine Tredwell
Darren S. A. George
something along the lines of...
I believe so- one of the versions of the story of Beren and Tenuviel (sp?)
refers to Beren as a gnome- it's either in the Shaping of Middle-Earth; the Book
of Lost Tales (I? II?); or Unfinished Tales.
Darren S. A. George
whisper something along the lines of...
>the Woses
WHat are the woses?
>the Swamp-things (i forget what they're called)
>Will-O' the Wisps (swamp gassers)
The "tricksy lights" in the swamps that Frodo and Sam went through?
>The human qualities of Caradhras
Who's Caradhras? (I don't own a copy of the Silmarillion, if that's where he's
mentioned.)
Thanks.
Darren S. A. George
whisper something along the lines of...
>As such I don't think that Gnomes count as a species of creature in ME
>unless Darren wants to list all subcategories of Elves as separate
>creatures.
No, I don't. I'm actually looking for creatures that are at least -visibly-
different from others of their ilk (or ones that don't have an ilk). So I'll
count trolls and orcs, but I'm not going into the subtleties of deciding if the
Uruk-hai are a completely different breed from the half-orcs, nor will I take
Boromir's mention of half-elves to add another category to the list (I didn't
think he was being literal anyway).
The reason I'm looking is that I'm writing an article on obscure heraldic
monsters, and I think ents would make a lovely addition to the heraldic
pantheon. Since I always have two creatures per article, I'm trying to pick a
second one. Sea serpents would work nicely, except for the uncomfortable fact
that I can't find any mention of such creatures in Professor Tolkien's works
(and so don't quite fit in with ents, unless I make a big deal about his
friendship with C. S. Lewis).
"Tentacled watchers and balrogs with wings, these are a few of my favourite
things....."
Darren S. A. George
Toadflax whisper something along the lines of...
>>> Speaking of which, anyone ever listen to a group called Shadowfax?
> A group of what?
Musical group. They did mostly synthesized music on albums "Shadowdance", "Too
Far To Whisper", "Folk Songs For A Nuclear Village", and "The Odd Get Even".
Fairly good, and not nearly as synthetic as Gandalf.
Darren S. A. George
along the lines of...
>then there are the neekerbreekers....
Aren't those just frogs?
Raven
news:loGz7.34497$ev2....@www.newsranger.com...
> >The human qualities of Caradhras
> Who's Caradhras? (I don't own a copy of the Silmarillion, if that's
> where he's mentioned.)
Caradhras is a mountain with an attitude.
Rare.
Michael O'Neill
>
> > >
> > > You quoted quite a bit there, typed by hand. If we could get about
> three
> > > more posts like that, we'd have the E-book project of LOTR done. :)
> >
> >
> > You're not subscribed to alt.binaries.e-book, are you, by any chance?
> >
> > M.
>
> Nope. Is it worth it? I've never enjoyed reading off the monitor. The
> E-book remark was pure ribbing; I read elsewhere that Tolkien Estate nixxed
> the idea of putting Tolkien's works in E-book form.
They obviously don't subscribe to it either...
M.
Donald Shepherd
says...
Well, they nixxed the legal versions...
--
Donald Shepherd
<donald_...@hotmail.com>
"Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has
to make sense."
- Mark Twain
Donald Shepherd
<jonlenn...@get2net.dk> says...
Or a mountain with altitude, depending upon how you look at it.
Ian Blenkinsop
wrote:
>On the morn of 16 Oct 2001 22:24:12 -0700, I thought I heard whisper something
>along the lines of...
>
>>then there are the neekerbreekers....
>
>Aren't those just frogs?
>
Midges, in the marshes between Bree and Weathertop
Ian Blenkinsop
Michael Kohrs
Both wrong. They were crickets. I should know as I had to endure an
invasion of those damned neekerbreekers in my basement during the past
summer. :)
Mnkohrz
Tamf Moo
következő hírüzenetben:
>> > Who's Caradhras? (I don't own a copy of the Silmarillion, if that's
>> > where he's mentioned.)
>> Caradhras is a mountain with an attitude.
>
>Or a mountain with altitude, depending upon how you look at it.
if you look up, you may risk a rather flat face.
--
Tamf, Illicit Queen of Lellow Dwagins
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
Enjoy every day like it is going to be your last. One day you
will be right.
Donald Shepherd
<gnu...@oink.co.uk> says...
> Donald Shepherd <donald_...@spamnot.hotmail.com> az alábbiakat írta a
> következő hírüzenetben:
>
> >> > Who's Caradhras? (I don't own a copy of the Silmarillion, if that's
> >> > where he's mentioned.)
> >> Caradhras is a mountain with an attitude.
> >
> >Or a mountain with altitude, depending upon how you look at it.
>
> if you look up, you may risk a rather flat face.
If you look down, you will miss the large chunk of ice hurtling at your
head.
Raven
news:moc0tt4tbe4pnk20h...@4ax.com...
> >> Caradhras is a mountain with an attitude.
> >Or a mountain with altitude, depending upon how you look at it.
> if you look up, you may risk a rather flat face.
Because of the elephants BASE jumping off it, of course.
Ramn.
the softrat
Blenkinsop) wrote:
The midges are call 'midges' at the ==>Midge<== water Marshes, dummy.
The neekerbreekers were evil relatives of crickets (kinda like Uncle
Joe and Aunt Hilda).
the softrat "He who rubs owls"
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have
never forgotten this.
WindS...@webtv.net
>the Woses
>Quendeatan
The Woses were human. Not very pretty by our standards, but human
nonetheless. And IMO rather more normal as humans go than the
Beornings.
Windy
Michael O'Neill
>
> In article <3BCF5283...@indigo.ie>, Michael O'Neill <o...@indigo.ie>
> says...
> > William Hanson wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You quoted quite a bit there, typed by hand. If we could get about
> > > three
> > > > > more posts like that, we'd have the E-book project of LOTR done. :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You're not subscribed to alt.binaries.e-book, are you, by any chance?
> > > >
> > > > M.
> > >
> > > Nope. Is it worth it? I've never enjoyed reading off the monitor. The
> > > E-book remark was pure ribbing; I read elsewhere that Tolkien Estate nixxed
> > > the idea of putting Tolkien's works in E-book form.
> >
> > They obviously don't subscribe to it either...
>
> Well, they nixxed the legal versions...
*mheh*
M.