Japanese subtitle spoils the movie
Mitsuhiro Itakura
which spoil the elaborated script with an incredible efficiency.
Here follows some examples:
E:original script
J:Japanese subtitles translated back into English
1---------------------------------------------------------------
(Boromir talking about Denethor)
E:My father is a noble man, J:My father was a noble man,
(Don't kill Denethor!)
2---------------------------------------------------------------
(Boromir urges Frodo not to go to Mordor)
Boromir: E:"Why do you recoil? I am no thief."
Frodo: E:"You are not yourself!" J: "Don't tell a lie!"
3---------------------------------------------------------------
(Boromir's last word to Aragorn)
E:"Our people, our people!" J:"Our race, our race!"
4---------------------------------------------------------------
(Aragorn to Frodo)
E:I would have gone with you to the end, into the very fires of Mordor.
J:If I [could/can], I [would have shared/will share] your doom.
(The tense is not explicitly shown in Japanese subtitle and both
interpretations apply. But the later meaning is stronger)
The translator in charge is Ms. Natsuko Toda. She is the most famous
subtitle-writer in Japan, and movie distributors think that employing
her serves as a good advertisement. However, she is the most INFAMOUS
one for movie-lovers and Star Wars fans. The problem is that
she completely lacks love and/or understanding about the movie she
translates. As for the LotR, she has never read any of Tolkien's works!
Now some of Japanese fans are working on self-made subtitles at a
bulletin board:
(http://jbbs.shitaraba.com/movie/bbs/read.cgi?BBS=469&KEY=1014834276)
IMHO, their works seem far better than Toda's.
Toda's most infamous translation may be the following one in Star Wars Ep.1:
(explanation of Jar-Jar)
E:"A local" J:"A Localian" (a creature of planet "Local"?!)
I say to you, Japanese Star Wars geeks, not till now have I understood
the tale of your grief and toil. As wicked nerds I scorned them,
but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the geeks say,
the one way to watch the movie, it is bitter to accept...
--
Mitsuhiro Itakura
http://www.zangband.org/j/
The Japanese Zangband Page
paulh
wrote:
>Japanese fans are raging at poorly translated subtitles of the movie,
>which spoil the elaborated script with an incredible efficiency.
>Here follows some examples:
>bulletin board:
>(http://jbbs.shitaraba.com/movie/bbs/read.cgi?BBS=469&KEY=1014834276)
>IMHO, their works seem far better than Toda's.
>
>Toda's most infamous translation may be the following one in Star Wars Ep.1:
> (explanation of Jar-Jar)
> E:"A local" J:"A Localian" (a creature of planet "Local"?!)
>
>I say to you, Japanese Star Wars geeks, not till now have I understood
>the tale of your grief and toil. As wicked nerds I scorned them,
>but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the geeks say,
>the one way to watch the movie, it is bitter to accept...
V.interesting... one never things of these sorts of issues...
any other translation issues in other languages???
paulh
MH
news:pm3t8uormsfmbub8o...@4ax.com...
> >the tale of your grief and toil. As wicked nerds I scorned them,
> >but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the geeks say,
> >the one way to watch the movie, it is bitter to accept...
>
> V.interesting... one never things of these sorts of issues...
>
> any other translation issues in other languages???
>
> paulh
That is interesting. My fiance lives in Denmark. He asked me what kind of
cake Bilbo had (in the scene when Gandalf first stops by his home). "Cake?"
I asked. They had subtitled the background mutterings on Bilbo that were not
audible in English.
Martha
Tom Holt
from su...@esatclear.ie (Sorcha) contains these words:
> The main thing I noticed at a Dutch screening was that no-one laughed at
> Sam's 'I ain't been droppin' no eaves, Mr. Gandalf' line, as it's
> probably not translatable out of English without a great deal of
> explanation.
No-one laughed at the British screenings, either. It's not particularly funny.
Janette
"Tom Holt" <lemmi...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:200203131...@zetnet.co.uk...
There were quite a few people who laughed when I saw it (each of the 8
times)...
but then, we're Australian.
Donald Shepherd
(drago...@bigpond.com) says...
Heh heh. He said 'eaves'. Heh heh.
--
Donald Shepherd
<donald_...@hotmail.com>
BALROG: Screw Gandalf! Where’s this Ralph Bakshi guy?
- http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=534018
kbrors
"Janette" <drago...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:oISj8.10909$uR5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Ralf van den Broek
> The main thing I noticed at a Dutch screening was that no-one laughed at
> Sam's 'I ain't been droppin' no eaves, Mr. Gandalf' line, as it's
> probably not translatable out of English without a great deal of
> explanation.
>
> Sorcha
IIRC, the Dutch subtitle had a similar pun, but I suppose it's much
easier to miss it if you have to read it...
Janette
"kbrors" <kbr...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c9078ee$0$28440$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
LOL, yep!
m
says...
> The main thing I noticed at a Dutch screening was that no-one
> laughed at
> Sam's 'I ain't been droppin' no eaves, Mr. Gandalf' line, as it's
> probably not translatable out of English without a great deal of
> explanation.
> > > >
> No-one laughed at the British screenings, either. It's not
> particularly funny.
> > > >
>
listened to the BBC Radio adaptation of the book.
In the BBC play, Sam says "Beggin' your pardon sir, but there ain't no eves at
Bag End, and that's a fact."
Simply because of two things, 1. Holes in the ground do not have eves, by their
very nature and in that respect Sam was perfectly correct. And 2. Because this
is Sams little attempt at defiance against the might of Gandalf the Wizard.
The fact that PJ kept this in the film was a real touch of class.
MK
Graeme
>which spoil the elaborated script with an incredible efficiency.
You know, I just today posted something similar to this in
alt.tv.star-trek.tos, about the shaft the Japanese fans get. Most of the Star
Trek episode titles are changed in Japanese (presumably by the same people who
write the subtitles). And the Japanese episodes titles are not only awful,
they're hilariously awful. They all sound like they were written by a 12 year
old kid who had just watched an all-day Godzilla marathon. A few examples:
THE MAN TRAP = A Bloodsucking Salt Beast on Planet M-113
WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE = Shining Eyes
THE NAKED TIME = The Evil Disease in Space
MIRI = 400-year Old Girl
DAGGER OF THE MIND = The Lunatic From Devil's Island
THE CONSCIENCE OF THE KING = Kodos, the Bloodthirsty Ghoul (!!)
SHORE LEAVE = Very Funny Amusement Planet
THE GALILEO SEVEN = The Planet of Gorillas
TOMORROW IS YESTERDAY = First Year of Stardate 7.21
THE RETURN OF THE ARCHONS = The Dictator on Beta III
THE DEVIL IN THE DARK = Horta: The Underground Monster
ERRAND OF MERCY = Invasion of the Klingon Empire
CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER = Dangerous Trip to the Past
OPERATION ANNIHILATE = Dangerous Creatures on the Planet Deneva
THE CHANGELING = Secret of Nomad, Ultra-Small Spaceship
MIRROR, MIRROR = Terror of the Ion Turbulence
THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE = The Giant Monster in Space
I, MUDD = Alice in Wonder Space (Okay, now THIS one I like)
JOURNEY TO BABEL = Invasion of the Planet Orion (???)
FRIDAY'S CHILD = The Reappearance of the Klingons, the Old Enemy of Long
Standing
THE DEADLY YEARS = The Deadly Space Disease
OBSESSION = Revenge! Gas Monster!
WOLF IN THE FOLD = Murder on the Planet Argelius
THE TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES = New Species of Quadrotriticale (???)
THE GAMESTERS OF TRISKELION = The Space Directive! Throttling Collars!
THE IMMUNITY SYNDROME = Crash With the One-Celled Life Form
A PRIVATE LITTLE WAR = Magical Powers of the Kanutu Nona
RETURN TO TOMORROW = Energy at 160 Kilometers Underground
PATTERNS OF FORCE = Fear of Ekos Nazis
THE OMEGA GLORY = Result of the Bacteriological War
ASSIGNMENT EARTH = Mr. Seven, the Messenger from Space
THE ENTERPRISE INCIDENT = The Transparent Spaceship
THE PARADISE SYNDROME = Coming Close to Crash Course With an Asteroid
AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD = Apprentices of the Devil
SPECTRE OF THE GUN = Crisis! Gunfight at O.K. Corral!
DAY OF THE DOVE = Mystery in Space! Eat Out the Anger!
FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY = The Planet Type Spaceship
Which is Floating in Space
THE THOLIAN WEB = Crisis of Captain Kirk Who Was Thrown Into Different
Dimensional Space
PLATO'S STEPCHILDREN = Magical Power of Kironide
WINK OF AN EYE = Speed People on the Planet Scalos
THE EMPATH = Medical Experimentation on Living Persons on Minara
WHOM GODS DESTROY = Lunatic Asylum in Space
THE MARK OF GIDEON: Anguish of Gideon, The Planet of Longevity
THE LIGHTS OF ZETAR: The Attack From Zetar, The Planet of Extinction
REQUIEM FOR METHUSELAH: Love at the Age of 6200 (Okay, I LIKE this one)
THE CLOUD MINDERS = Operation Zienite on the Planet Ardana
TURNABOUT INTRUDER = Transformation! Captain Kirk's Crisis!
Jette Goldie
Well, tis worthy of a *smile*- not a belly laugh, not even
a chuckle.
--
Jette
(aka Vinyaduriel)
"Work for Peace and remain fiercely loving" - Jim Byrnes
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fanfic.html
D.G. Porter
>
>
> You know, I just today posted something similar to this in
> alt.tv.star-trek.tos, about the shaft the Japanese fans get. Most of the Star
> Trek episode titles are changed in Japanese (presumably by the same people who
> write the subtitles). And the Japanese episodes titles are not only awful,
> they're hilariously awful. They all sound like they were written by a 12 year
> old kid who had just watched an all-day Godzilla marathon. A few examples:
Japanese translators have always seemed to be clueless. I remember when
we used tofly those gas-powered hand-controlled model airplanes int he
'60s, and the little engines were made in Japan, and the boolet that
came with them had things in it like, "Every model engine oil be used."
And my favorite, captioning a picture of the guy trying to start the
engine, "Clank."
Vilhelm Sjoberg
> The main thing I noticed at a Dutch screening was that no-one laughed at
> Sam's 'I ain't been droppin' no eaves, Mr. Gandalf' line, as it's
> probably not translatable out of English without a great deal of
> explanation.
But that joke is not funny in English either. :)
The Swedish subtiles followed the translation of the books closely.
Which is not nessesarily a good thing - the swedish translation is
imfamous for rendering placenames etc into Nordic-sounding equivalents,
even turning the hobbits into "hob"s. This "localization" is done quite
inconsistantly, someone gave an example of a placename that was
translated in five different ways throughout the books. (This is not the
only complaint - the translation also deviates from the terse style of
the original, and abbreviates the text by dropping entire sentences).
Some people had hoped that the movies would provide some incitement for
the publishers to give the translation an overhaul. But that was not to be.
-Vilhlm
Mark Wooding
> But that joke is not funny in English either. :)
Indeed: the original `Pardon me, Master Gandalf, sir, but there ain't no
eaves at Bag End, and that's a fact' is much better.
This thread scares me. I'd thought that the film's English dialogue had
done an unforgiveable disservice to the original. The comments on other
translations haven't changed this opinion, but at least now I know it
could have been worse...
-- [mdw]
Öjevind Lång
>>Japanese fans are raging at poorly translated subtitles of the movie,
>>which spoil the elaborated script with an incredible efficiency.
>
>You know, I just today posted something similar to this in
>alt.tv.star-trek.tos, about the shaft the Japanese fans get. Most of the
Star
>Trek episode titles are changed in Japanese (presumably by the same people
who
>write the subtitles). And the Japanese episodes titles are not only awful,
>they're hilariously awful. They all sound like they were written by a 12
year
>old kid who had just watched an all-day Godzilla marathon. A few examples:
>
[snip]
>PATTERNS OF FORCE = Fear of Ekos Nazis
Your pardon?
[snip]
>SPECTRE OF THE GUN = Crisis! Gunfight at O.K. Corral!
This one has to be a joke. Please tell me it is a joke!
Öjevind
Banazir the Jedi Hobbit
> >Japanese fans are raging at poorly translated subtitles of the movie,
> >which spoil the elaborated script with an incredible efficiency.
>
> You know, I just today posted something similar to this in
> alt.tv.star-trek.tos, about the shaft the Japanese fans get. Most of the
> Star Trek episode titles are changed in Japanese (presumably by the same
> people who write the subtitles). And the Japanese episodes titles are not
> only awful, they're hilariously awful.
> [snip awfulness]
> THE GALILEO SEVEN = The Planet of Gorillas
Wlokay, this one is pretty accurate, though it is quite a spoiler.
Actually, liking sp6ilers in book, TV, and film blurbs is very
characteristic of many Asian mass-media traditions, - I suppose Japan
is no exception.
> [...]
>
> THE DEVIL IN THE DARK = Horta: The Underground Monster
See above.
> CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER = Dangerous Trip to the Past
LOL, how imaginative!
I'd write Harlan Ellison to tell him, but I suspect he's mad enough.
#-)
> MIRROR, MIRROR = Terror of the Ion Turbulence
ROTFL!
> I, MUDD = Alice in Wonder Space (Okay, now THIS one I like)
Agreed.
> OBSESSION = Revenge! Gas Monster!
What else?
> THE TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES = New Species of Quadrotriticale (???)
New Species of Near-Sighted Clueless Transtator
(flrrr-FLRRR)
> THE GAMESTERS OF TRISKELION = The Space Directive! Throttling Collars!
Of curse.
> THE PARADISE SYNDROME = Coming Close to Crash Course With an Asteroid
*snort*
What do they call "METAMORPHOSIS" (the one with Zephram Cochrane)?
> DAY OF THE DOVE = Mystery in Space! Eat Out the Anger!
All together now...
"All your anger are belong to us!"
> THE MARK OF GIDEON: Anguish of Gideon, The Planet of Longevity
See above, re: literal-mindedness and spoilers.
> REQUIEM FOR METHUSELAH: Love at the Age of 6200 (Okay, I LIKE this one)
Mm, well, it's not bad.
--
Banazir
pelpel
i...@zangband.org (Mitsuhiro Itakura) wrote in message:
> Japanese fans are raging at poorly translated subtitles of the movie,
> which spoil the elaborated script with an incredible efficiency.
Last weekend I watched subtitled and Japanese-dubbed versions,
each once, and felt some, if not all of the problems might
come from obscure sound quality of an English version which
was used for the subtitling... I felt there were slight camera
timing differences in a couple of places and suspected there
might be different English versions, but this might be wrong...
Anyway, I'm not at all a fluent speaker or a good listener
of the language to judge if these were results of censorship,
volume balance problem, sound system problem in the theatre
(I don't think this is true -- the theatres I watched the
subtitled version are among the best in the country),
or whatever.
The most blatant moment was when Galadriel was handing the gift
to Frodo, supposedly saying "...of Earendil", but she sounded
like "Erendil", so was the subtitle, which, in Japanese, is
the same as Elendil(!). Of course, the English hardly
uses pure vowel sounds and I know speakers of the language
may have difficulty with words like this...
I was also astonished to hear unkindly words spoken by passers-by
in Bree: they were not at all audible in the subtitled version.
I also didn't notice the word of Gandalf when Boromir picked up
the Ring on their way to Caradhras. Both of these are very clearly
spoken in the dubbed version, maybe restored from the script...
Again, this may be because of my limited ability in English.
Related to your original posting, I also felt Aragorn,
or rather, VM, said his last words to Frodo too fast.
He's a Dunadan, so, in such grave moment, he should not
have used shortened auxially verbs...
These being said, they are very minor problems
(but that Elendil was promoted to the beloved star
of Elves part) in such a magnificent cinematic work...
// pelpel (ka...@sta.att.ne.jp)
Mitsuhiro Itakura
> You know, I just today posted something similar to this in
> alt.tv.star-trek.tos, about the shaft the Japanese fans get. Most of the Star
> Trek episode titles are changed in Japanese (presumably by the same people who
> write the subtitles). And the Japanese episodes titles are not only awful,
> they're hilariously awful. They all sound like they were written by a 12 year
> old kid who had just watched an all-day Godzilla marathon. A few examples:
LOL. (^_^);
> WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE = Shining Eyes
This is legendary one. "Glowing Eyeball", to be more precise.
Nowadays the situation has been much improved concerning the TV
dramas. The translations of TNG and thereafter are good enough.
Recetly I watched an episode of "Roswell", in which Buddha says
"Beam us up" in Kyle's funny dream. The phrase was correctly
translated in the dubbed version :-)
Mitsuhiro Itakura
ka...@sta.att.ne.jp (pelpel) wrote in message news:<e5eb07c0.02031...@posting.google.com>...
> The most blatant moment was when Galadriel was handing the gift
> to Frodo, supposedly saying "...of Earendil", but she sounded
> like "Erendil", so was the subtitle, which, in Japanese, is
> the same as Elendil(!). Of course, the English hardly
> uses pure vowel sounds and I know speakers of the language
> may have difficulty with words like this...
OTOH, Japanese dubbed version was supervised by an Elvish expert
and that part was correctly translated to Earendil. The pronounciation
of "MELLON" was perfect, too.
> Related to your original posting, I also felt Aragorn,
> or rather, VM, said his last words to Frodo too fast.
> He's a Dunadan, so, in such grave moment, he should not
> have used shortened auxially verbs...
Since I'm not good at listening English, I missed almost all
the "would have"s in the last part. That was critical. :-<
> These being said, they are very minor problems
> (but that Elendil was promoted to the beloved star
> of Elves part) in such a magnificent cinematic work...
I agree.
Graeme
used tofly those gas-powered hand-controlled model airplanes int he '60s, and
the little engines were made in Japan, and the boolet that came with them had
things in it like, "Every model engine oil be used." And my favorite,
captioning a picture of the guy trying to start the engine, "Clank."
>>
Bad translations are one thing, but most of those Japanese Trek titles were
brand NEW titles, not translations of the old ones, and they all seemed to
emphasize the omigoshgolli-it's-a-scary-monster aspect of the episode.
Graeme
>>
>>
This one has to be a joke. Please tell me it is a joke!
Öjevind
>>
Well, the *actual* Japanese title is "Kiki Ippatsu! Oke Bokujo no Ketto"
If someone here knows Japanese, they can tell us if that's a reasonable
translation.
Graeme
>>Wlokay, this one is pretty accurate, though it is quite a spoiler.
Yes, and there are several inexcusable spoilers in these foreign titles. But
this one isn't the worst, it's silly because it emphasizes the "omigoshgolli,
it's a scary monster" aspect of the story, when the story is really ABOUT the
conflict between Spock and his crew".
But the worst spoilers, are, I think "Very Funny Amusement Planet" for Shore
Leave, and "Mother Horta Saves Her Children" (the German title for Devil in the
Dark). What WERE they thinking??
Graeme
This is legendary one. "Glowing Eyeball", to be more precise.
>>
According to the book, the actual title here is "Hikaru Medama".
We're probably lucky that this episode ever got broadcast at all. Back in
those days it was not uncommon for pilot episodes to go completely unseen by
the public, since the show was often changed quite a bit by the time it went to
series. This one is no exception in that respect, but they showed it anyway,
just because Trek episodes were so expensive to make. To save money and time
in the schedule, this one got slipped into the mix.
I don't think the Black and White Get Smart pilot was ever shown until Nick at
Nite started showing the series and got hold of it.
>>Nowadays the situation has been much improved concerning the TV dramas. The
translations of TNG and thereafter are good enough.
>>
Yes, but as I say, with most of these foreign Trek titles, they are not
translations at all, but rather brand new titles that the translators assigned
to the episodes.
Celaeno
>Yes, but as I say, with most of these foreign Trek titles, they are not
>translations at all, but rather brand new titles that the translators assigned
>to the episodes.
Occasionally, Norwegian translators will change an English movie title
into a different English movie title.
Cel
TEUNC Triumvirate
no longer accompanied by small canine :(