free mason imagery in LOTR
Allan
a bit of subtle Free Mason imagery in LOTR.
Tolkien was a Catholic and Catholics have a history of anti Free Mason
sentiment.
eg. Baradur. A tower topped with an all seeing eye.
A tower or pyramid topped with an eye is an old Free Mason symbol. Just
look as the american one dollar bill.
Some free mason images were included on the American dollar bill because of
there involvement in banking and the
treasury department in early American History
Tolkien likes the concept of rings as a symbol or source of secret power.
Free Masons often recognised each other by special rings given to members.
Different rings
were symbolic of levels of authority within the order.
Saruman with his secret alliegence to Mordor and his obsession with
engineering and alchemy
is steriotypical of the learned man turn mason.
There might not be much to it. But its an angle I don't think has been
discussed before.
Michael Cole
news:4099835f$1...@usenet.per.paradox.net.au
> I was wondering whether there is anything to the idea that Tolkien
> included a bit of subtle Free Mason imagery in LOTR.
No, he made sure that he charged for it. This is a capitalist society,
after all.
--
Regards,
Michael Cole
Bill O'Meally
> I was wondering whether there is anything to the idea that Tolkien
> included a bit of subtle Free Mason imagery in LOTR.
> Tolkien was a Catholic and Catholics have a history of anti Free Mason
> sentiment.
>
> eg. Baradur. A tower topped with an all seeing eye.
The Eye-cum-lighthouse effect was PJ's vision, not Tolkien's.
--
Bill
"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
AC
Allan <al...@eftel.com> wrote:
> I was wondering whether there is anything to the idea that Tolkien included
> a bit of subtle Free Mason imagery in LOTR.
> Tolkien was a Catholic and Catholics have a history of anti Free Mason
> sentiment.
<snip>
You answered your own question. Tolkien was a very strong, faithful
Catholic so I doubt that there was any Masonic imagery, though in a work as
vast as LotR I'm sure one could find similarities.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightym...@hotmail.com
Allan
"AC" <mightym...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnc9ji6p.29g....@alder.alberni.net...
I'm not saying Tolkien was a Mason, but an anti masonic catholic.
His EVIL characters are surrounded by masonic symbolism.
Plssms
system.
Haven't seen any Mark of the Beast though.
Flame of the West
> Free Masons often recognised each other by special rings given to members.
> Different rings
> were symbolic of levels of authority within the order.
I thought they used the Secret Masonic Handshake.
-- FotW
Barad-dūr MUST rise again, at least as tall as before...or Frodo has triumphed.
Christopher Kreuzer
> "Allan" <al...@eftel.com> wrote in message
> news:<4099835f$1...@usenet.per.paradox.net.au>...
>
>> Free Masons often recognised each other by special rings given to
>> members. Different rings
>> were symbolic of levels of authority within the order.
>
> I thought they used the Secret Masonic Handshake.
Or the funny trouser leg thing.
Een Wilde Ier
> "Allan" <al...@eftel.com> wrote in message news:<4099835f$1...@usenet.per.paradox.net.au>...
>
>
>>Free Masons often recognised each other by special rings given to members.
>>Different rings
>>were symbolic of levels of authority within the order.
>
>
> I thought they used the Secret Masonic Handshake.
I thought they kissed rings...
Oops, that's *us*.
Paul Lawler
included
> a bit of subtle Free Mason imagery in LOTR.
No, there does not appear to be.
> Tolkien was a Catholic and Catholics have a history of anti Free Mason
> sentiment.
So what? Catholics have a history of doing a lot of things that we don't
consider acceptable today (e.g., the Spanish Inquisition). I don't think you
can stereotype an author's non-religious works based on his/her religion.
There is much more Norse mythology in Tolkien than there is Catholicism.
> eg. Baradur. A tower topped with an all seeing eye.
Only in the film, not in Tolkien's books. Got another example?
> A tower or pyramid topped with an eye is an old Free Mason symbol. Just
> look as the american one dollar bill.
No, not a tower or pyramid... a pyramid. There is a large difference
between a tower and a pyramid.
> Some free mason images were included on the American dollar bill because
of
> there involvement in banking and the treasury department in early American
History
And this relates to LOTR how?
> Tolkien likes the concept of rings as a symbol or source of secret power.
Source yes... symbol no.
> Free Masons often recognised each other by special rings given to members.
> Different rings were symbolic of levels of authority within the order.
And you think that rings as symbols are unique to Freemasonry because...?
> Saruman with his secret alliegence to Mordor and his obsession with
> engineering and alchemy is steriotypical [sic] of the learned man turn
mason.
Perhaps you have not read the books... Saruman's alliegence was not to
Mordor, but to Saruman. Why do you say that engineering and alchemy are
stereotypical of Masons? Although I do know some engineers who are Masons, I
don't know any Masonic alchemists. Where in Tolkien's works do you find
Saruman practicing alchemy (turning of base metals into gold)?
> There might not be much to it. But its an angle I don't think has been
> discussed before.
You are correct... there's not much to it. Especially since most of your
assertions are more relevant to Peter Jackson's mangling of the story than
the original Tolkien.
the softrat
West) wrote:
>"Allan" <al...@eftel.com> wrote in message news:<4099835f$1...@usenet.per.paradox.net.au>...
>
>> Free Masons often recognised each other by special rings given to members.
>> Different rings
>> were symbolic of levels of authority within the order.
>
>I thought they used the Secret Masonic Handshake.
>
Some Masons only have flippers.
the softrat
"I feel like I'm beating my head against a dead horse."
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
"Tracers work both ways." - U.S. Army Ordnance Corps memo.
Öjevind Lång
Or putting a knotted handkerchief on their heads.
Öjevind
the softrat
<dnivej...@swipnet.se> wrote:
>
>Or putting a knotted handkerchief on their heads.
>
>Öjevind
>
the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
Aris Katsaris
included
> a bit of subtle Free Mason imagery in LOTR.
> Tolkien was a Catholic and Catholics have a history of anti Free Mason
> sentiment.
>
> eg. Baradur. A tower topped with an all seeing eye.
Tolkien didn't mention anything about the tower being *topped* by the
all-seeing eye AFAIK.
So, no.
Aris Katsaris
The Arcane Chas
serious contemplation, Öjevind Lång <dnivej...@swipnet.se> put finger
to keyboard and produced the following;
They're not Freemasons - they're Yorkshiremen.
(Although I suppose they could be both). :-}
--
Cheers,
Chas.
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination".
Paul Lawler
"The Arcane Chas" <Ch...@the-arcane.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u3De7NCM...@the-arcane.demon.co.uk...
They don't call them "York Rite" masons for nothing you know... <g>
Bill O'Meally
> In article <MUvnc.44023$zm5....@nntpserver.swip.net>, but only after
> serious contemplation, Öjevind Lång <dnivej...@swipnet.se> put
> finger to keyboard and produced the following;
>> Or putting a knotted handkerchief on their heads.
>
> They're not Freemasons - they're Yorkshiremen.
>
> (Although I suppose they could be both). :-}
I thought they were Gumbies.
The Arcane Chas
only after serious contemplation, Paul Lawler
<star...@kilolaniDOT.net> put finger to keyboard and produced the
following;
>
>"The Arcane Chas" <Ch...@the-arcane.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:u3De7NCM...@the-arcane.demon.co.uk...
>>
>>
>> (Although I suppose they could be both). :-}
>
>They don't call them "York Rite" masons for nothing you know... <g>
LOL - good point.