Pronounciation of Moria
Cristofer Byers
is this correct, or is how I pronounce it as "mor ee ah" correct? Or is it
something else entirely? Thanks for your help, these pronounciation things
really throw me for a loop.
Brillo
--------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------
GAT/GM d- s++: a--- C++ U--- P? L E?
W+ N-- o-- K- w O? M-- V? PS-- PE Y+
PGP? t--- 5-- X R@ tv- b+++ DI D--- G e*
h! r--- y-
---------END GEEK CODE BLOCK---------
(www.geekcode.com)
noothan
things in that movie incorrectly. I personally say "mor i ah", but it
could go either way
Nathan Danylczuk
Adrian Ratnapala
>In the old movie it was pronounced "mor ee ah", but they pronounced many
>things in that movie incorrectly. I personally say "mor i ah", but it
>could go either way
>
Fortunately, LotR comes with a pronunciation guide. Unfotunately I can't find
my RotK. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure that if you read it, you would find the
"i" sounds like it does in "lick".
"i" as in "like" is an insanity confined to the Enlish language I believe.
Raphaël Capian
> "i" as in "like" is an insanity confined to the Enlish language I believe.
Not at all, in France, Spain, Italy and all other latin speaking countries
we've pushed insanity so far that we always pronounce the "i" as in "like" !
moon_lover
this just about upsets the order of things for me. Oh dear!
Raphaël Capian <raphael...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:8kk68s$mcv$1...@wanadoo.fr...
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Aris Katsaris
moon_lover <idrea...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:396de...@news.tm.net.my...
> yikes! i never thought of it-i always pronounced it as mo-ree-a. Oh dear,
> this just about upsets the order of things for me. Oh dear!
Eh, that's the way it's *supposed* to be pronounced, isn't it?
Aris Katsaris
Steuard Jensen
> Hallo, a couple of my friends were pronouncing "Moria" as "mor i ah", now,
> is this correct, or is how I pronounce it as "mor ee ah" correct? Or is it
> something else entirely? Thanks for your help, these pronounciation things
> really throw me for a loop.
As others have said, the authoritative way to answer this question
would be to look up the pronounciation in the Appendices of LotR.
(Actually, the _best_ way would be to find one of those recordings of
Tolkien reading from LotR and look for a place where he mentions
Moria, but I don't have any handy.)
However, even without those references in hand, I'm pretty confident
that the pronounciation should be something like "more ee ah", just as
you say it. (That "ee" is as in "eat" or "east", to be completely
clear.) I believe that "more eye ah" is what they call the wind. :)
Steuard Jensen
grimgard
"Raphaël Capian" wrote:
> > "i" as in "like" is an insanity confined to the Enlish language I believe.
>
> Not at all, in France, Spain, Italy and all other latin speaking countries
> we've pushed insanity so far that we always pronounce the "i" as in "like" !
So you're saying that the Spanish word 'si' should be pronounced so as to rhyme
with the English word 'sigh'? I don't *think* so! >-/
grimgard
Adrian Ratnapala
>that the pronounciation should be something like "more ee ah", just as
>you say it. (That "ee" is as in "eat" or "east", to be completely
>clear.) I believe that "more eye ah" is what they call the wind. :)
>
However I always felt that it was a short "i" rather than a long
one. English speekers tend to ignore these distinctions (even
though many words in the Enlish language rely on them).
Philip Mulholland
"the sound were approximately those represented by i.....in English machine"
So it is Mor-ee-a. However, I can't find a definite reference to where the
stress should go. Should it be MORia or morIA? Can anybody help?
"Aris Katsaris" <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:8kktss$e78$1...@newssrv.otenet.gr...
Chris Hoelscher
question?
Chris Hoelscher
the softrat
wrote:
No, oh Linguistically Challenged One. The *sound*! The *sound*! 'ai'
is pronounced like the so-called 'long' English 'i'. 'i' is pronounced
like English 'ee'.
Howsomeever your respondent is also linguistically challenged to make
such an assertion.
the softrat
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
"I suppose they are vicious rascals, but it scarcely matters
what they are. I'm after what they know." (Gibson-Sterling, The
Difference Engine)
the softrat
(Steuard Jensen) wrote:
> I believe that "more eye ah" is what they call the wind. :)
>
Yes. Most assuredly. (Or the place where Abraham almost murdered Isaac
at the behest of Yahweh.)
the softrat
Linguistically many English 'long' vowels are diphthongs, not long
vowels. For example, long 'a' is 'ay', long 'i' is 'ai', long 'o' is
'o-oo'. Long 'e' and long 'u' may be true long vowels, but long 'e'
frequently becomes 'ee-yah' and long 'u' frequently becomes 'oo-wah'.
Cristofer Byers
of you have replied to my question now. Not to be rude or anything. If you
guys want to continue this discussion, that's fine with me.
Thanks again,
Brillo
Conrad Dunkerson <conrad.d...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:PCtb5.1895$tI4....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Cristofer Byers" <bean...@isbe.accessus.net> wrote in message
> news:96346202...@news.accessus.net...
>
> > Hallo, a couple of my friends were pronouncing "Moria" as "mor i
> > ah", now, is this correct, or is how I pronounce it as "mor ee
> > ah" correct? Or is it something else entirely?
>
> "It was there, as I remember, a casual 'echo' of Soria Moria Castle
> in one of the Scandinavian tales translated by Dasent. ... I liked
> the sound-sequence; it alliterated with 'mines', and it connected
> itself with the MOR element in my linguistic construction."
> JRRT, Letters #297
>
> MOR-eeuh
>
>
>
Raphaël Capian
> > > "i" as in "like" is an insanity confined to the Enlish language I
believe.
> >
> > Not at all, in France, Spain, Italy and all other latin speaking
countries
> > we've pushed insanity so far that we always pronounce the "i" as in
"like" !
>
> So you're saying that the Spanish word 'si' should be pronounced so as to
rhyme
> with the English word 'sigh'? I don't *think* so! >-/
>
> grimgard
>
Ah ! My God what have I write !
The only insanity here is mine. By some kind of madness I invert the
pronunciation of " like". You are perfectly right and the "i" in latin
languages is as the "i" in "lit" and notas in "light".
Now that I have put the shame on my family for the next ten generation I
shall be hang by the feet to death, and my corpse shall feed German dogs.
MEA MAXIMA CULPA.
raphael
Johan Winge
"Philip Mulholland" <phi...@slapy.freeserve.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:8klfht$5i8$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I've just checked my ROTK -
>
> "the sound were approximately those represented by i.....in English
machine"
>
> So it is Mor-ee-a. However, I can't find a definite reference to where
the
> stress should go. Should it be MORia or morIA? Can anybody help?
Yes, it's MORia. This is _also_ covered in ROTK!
-- Johan Winge
Conrad Dunkerson
Paul Shenton
believe.
>
> Not at all, in France, Spain, Italy and all other latin speaking countries
> we've pushed insanity so far that we always pronounce the "i" as in "like"
!
>
Spanish, Italian...or for that matter Portuguese and Romanian, where the
individual grapheme "i" is pronounced like the diphthong in the English word
"like" i.e. /ai/.
Paul.
Paul Shenton
"Adrian Ratnapala" <ra...@s369625.student.uq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:slrn8msam...@s369625.student.uq.edu.au...
> >However, even without those references in hand, I'm pretty confident
> >that the pronounciation should be something like "more ee ah", just as
> >you say it. (That "ee" is as in "eat" or "east", to be completely
> >clear.) I believe that "more eye ah" is what they call the wind. :)
> >
>
> However I always felt that it was a short "i" rather than a long
> one. English speekers tend to ignore these distinctions (even
> though many words in the Enlish language rely on them).
The fact that English relies on the difference between two vowel, i.e. they
operate in minimal pairs, means that, ipso facto, English speakers do not
ignore them. however, in unstresses position, the range of vowels in
English is diminished.
I pronounce the word as MORE-i-ah.
Paul.
moon_lover
Aris Katsaris <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:8kktss$e78$1...@newssrv.otenet.gr...
>
> moon_lover <idrea...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:396de...@news.tm.net.my...
> > yikes! i never thought of it-i always pronounced it as mo-ree-a. Oh
dear,
> > this just about upsets the order of things for me. Oh dear!
>
> Eh, that's the way it's *supposed* to be pronounced, isn't it?
>
> Aris Katsaris
>
>
*grin*
Adrian Ratnapala
>>However I always felt that it was a short "i" rather than a long
>>one. English speekers tend to ignore these distinctions (even
>>though many words in the Enlish language rely on them).
>
>Linguistically many English 'long' vowels are diphthongs, not long
>vowels. For example, long 'a' is 'ay', long 'i' is 'ai', long 'o' is
True enough, but I refer to 'i' being lengthed to 'ee' as in "cheese".
While I am sure some people would pronounce the latter as "chee-yas"
or some such, I doubt it is normal.
Adrian Ratnapala
Raphaël Capian <raphael...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>shall be hang by the feet to death, and my corpse shall feed German dogs.
>
>MEA MAXIMA CULPA.
Or is that "maia maxiaima calpa"? :)
Öjevind Lång
[snip]
>pronunciation of " like". You are perfectly right and the "i" in latin
>languages is as the "i" in "lit" and notas in "light".
The same is true of Germanic and Slavic languages. And of Welsh.
Öjevind
Steuard Jensen
> >I'm pretty confident that the pronounciation should be something
> >completely clear.)
Quoth ra...@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnapala):
> However I always felt that it was a short "i" rather than a long
> one. English speekers tend to ignore these distinctions (even
> though many words in the Enlish language rely on them).
I'm not entirely clear on what you mean, as I rather suspect that your
"short" refers to duration, while my old elementary school teachers
used it to refer to the distinction between, say, 'i' as in "sign" and
'i' as in "sin" ("long" and "short" 'i', respectively). My notes
above weren't meant to imply that I think the pronounciation should be
"more eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ah"! :) My "ee" is a pretty brief sound in
the word, really... and like others in this thread I put the accent on
the first syllable. Does that address your concerns? :)
Steuard Jensen
Johan Winge
"Steuard Jensen" <sbje...@midway.uchicago.edu> skrev i meddelandet
news:u3Hb5.182$x3.2812@uchinews...
>
> I'm not entirely clear on what you mean, as I rather suspect that your
> "short" refers to duration, while my old elementary school teachers
> used it to refer to the distinction between, say, 'i' as in "sign" and
> 'i' as in "sin" ("long" and "short" 'i', respectively).
What I often have wondered is if English-speaking people actually realise
that their "long i" really isn't a long "i" (if not talking historically),
but actually sounds like "ai"? I guess that most that are only familiar with
the English orthography don't?
grimgard
"Raphaël Capian" wrote:
> Ah ! My God what have I write !
> The only insanity here is mine. By some kind of madness I invert the
> pronunciation of " like". You are perfectly right and the "i" in latin
> languages is as the "i" in "lit" and notas in "light".
> Now that I have put the shame on my family for the next ten generation I
> shall be hang by the feet to death, and my corpse shall feed German dogs.
>
> MEA MAXIMA CULPA.
>
> raphael
Okay, I'll bring the rope. ;)
grimgard
grimgard
Cristofer Byers wrote:
> Err... well, thanks for all of everybody's help. I really think that enough
> of you have replied to my question now. Not to be rude or anything. If you
> guys want to continue this discussion, that's fine with me.
>
> Thanks again,
> Brillo
>
Heh, when you ask a question on this newsgroup, you'd better lash yourself to
the mast first! You gotta admit, though, it's better than being ignored.
Well, a little better, anyway.
grimgard
Adrian Ratnapala
Steuard Jensen <sbje...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>[I said:]
>> >I'm pretty confident that the pronounciation should be something
>> >like "more ee ah"... (That "ee" is as in "eat" or "east", to be
>> >completely clear.)
>
>Quoth ra...@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnapala):
>> However I always felt that it was a short "i" rather than a long
>> one. English speekers tend to ignore these distinctions (even
>> though many words in the Enlish language rely on them).
>
sentence out phonetically as I planned it in my head, it would be
something like
Ai olways felt that it wos eey shoot "ih"
Rather than
Ai olways felt that it wos eey shoot "ai"
If you get my meaning.
the softrat
(Adrian Ratnapala) wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:59:00 -0700, the softrat <sof...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>>However I always felt that it was a short "i" rather than a long
>>>one. English speekers tend to ignore these distinctions (even
>>>though many words in the Enlish language rely on them).
>>
>>Linguistically many English 'long' vowels are diphthongs, not long
>>vowels. For example, long 'a' is 'ay', long 'i' is 'ai', long 'o' is
>True enough, but I refer to 'i' being lengthed to 'ee' as in "cheese".
>While I am sure some people would pronounce the latter as "chee-yas"
>or some such, I doubt it is normal.
You-all jest aint been in 'Bama!
the softrat
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
I spent a week in Montreal last weekend.
the softrat
(Steuard Jensen) wrote:
>
>I'm not entirely clear on what you mean, as I rather suspect that your
>"short" refers to duration, while my old elementary school teachers
>used it to refer to the distinction between, say, 'i' as in "sign" and
>above weren't meant to imply that I think the pronounciation should be
>"more eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ah"! :) My "ee" is a pretty brief sound in
>the word, really... and like others in this thread I put the accent on
>the first syllable. Does that address your concerns? :)
>
linguistics and phonetics. They are fairly good at administering milk
and cookies.
Linguistically, 'long' and 'short' applies to the duration of one
phoneme (sound). Generally speaking 'long' sounds are about three
times longer than 'short' sounds, but there is immense variation. Some
languages have more than two distinctions.
Diphthongs contain two phonemes, generally a vowel and a glide (like
'y' and 'w' - semivowels). Some diphthongs are two vowels and some are
even two consonants.
As I said before, many English 'long' vowels are really diphthongs. Of
course these diphthongs take longer to voice than simple short vowels.
Of the 'i's in 'sign' and 'sin': yes, the first is an English long
'i', that is, a diphthong: 'ah-ya' (exaggerated); the second is a true
short vowels.
the softrat
<johan...@iname.com> wrote:
>
>What I often have wondered is if English-speaking people actually realise
>that their "long i" really isn't a long "i" (if not talking historically),
>but actually sounds like "ai"? I guess that most that are only familiar with
>the English orthography don't?
>
it was a 'long i' in elementary school. Therefore they believe it is a
single sound with fervent passion.
Steuard Jensen
> (Steuard Jensen) wrote:
> >I'm not entirely clear on what you mean, as I rather suspect that
> >your "short" refers to duration, while my old elementary school
> >teachers used it to refer to the distinction between, say, 'i' as
> >in "sign" and 'i' as in "sin"
> Linguistically, 'long' and 'short' applies to the duration of one
> phoneme (sound).
Oh, yes... very true (though I didn't know that until somewhere around
ninth grade, I think). I remember getting rather excited once when I
realized that a fair number of our English vowel sounds were really
two sounds in one (but I have no idea when I realized it). Reading
the appendices certainly helped me out as I thought about it... maybe
that's what inspired me in the first place. Someday I'd really like
to learn more linguistics... but there are _so_ many things on my
"want to learn" list these days. Ah well... eventually.
Steuard Jensen
Salvoret
----------
In article <96346202...@news.accessus.net>, "Cristofer Byers"
<bean...@isbe.accessus.net> wrote:
> Hallo, a couple of my friends were pronouncing "Moria" as "mor i ah", now,
> is this correct, or is how I pronounce it as "mor ee ah" correct? Or is it
> something else entirely? Thanks for your help, these pronounciation things
> really throw me for a loop.
>
> Brillo
I think you do it right. If I remember well the rules of pronunciation in
the appendixes, in almost all elvish languages (remember that Moria is
elvish), the value given to the vowels in latin characters is exactly the
same that is in Latin itself, that is , "i" sounds like english "ee".
Additionaly, when two vowels are together (morIA), they keep been pronounced
as separated vowels.
Gretings
Salva
>
>
>
>
Philip Mulholland
news:F%sb5.783$652....@newsc.telia.net...
Adrian Ratnapala
>>>Linguistically many English 'long' vowels are diphthongs, not long
>>>vowels. For example, long 'a' is 'ay', long 'i' is 'ai', long 'o' is
>>True enough, but I refer to 'i' being lengthed to 'ee' as in "cheese".
>>While I am sure some people would pronounce the latter as "chee-yas"
>>or some such, I doubt it is normal.
>
>You-all jest aint been in 'Bama!
>
That's the wonderful thing about English. Anyway you can think
of to fuck the language up, some buggers, somewhere have done it.
Juho P. Pahajoki
>that the pronounciation should be something like "more ee ah", just as
>you say it. (That "ee" is as in "eat" or "east", to be completely
>clear.) I believe that "more eye ah" is what they call the wind. :)
I do believe that you are quite right, if you pronounce e as i. But
all people who want to know how some name or another in Quenya is
pronounced, check The Elvish Pronounciation Guide at
http://www.dcs.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/pronguide.html
In this case check play the first wav-sound "Examples: a, e, i, o, u"
and all will be clear. The mor is same as in morning, the i is said
the way you in England say e (short one) and the a is (I think) like
Steaurd said ah, provided that the h isn't said there.
--
Juho Pahajoki, http://www.voima.jkl.fi/%7epahis/
"'StuffIt_Expander4.0.2.sea' (alias) ei voi avata, koska tämä ei olekaan
oikea alias (oho!). Ongelma on korjattu. Ole hyvä ja koeta uudelleen."
-- Applen Käyttöjärjestelmä K1-7.1 ohjelmaa avatessa