Jimmy Carter: 'Compassion for Mordor'
tbx135
Dennis Prager
January 6, 2004
OSLO, Norway (Prager News Service, Jan. 5, 2004) -- In a just-published
interview with the Norwegian Society for Universal Neutrality (NSUN), former
U.S. President Jimmy Carter said that the blockbuster trilogy "Lord of the
Rings" is sending dangerous messages to the world's young people.
"For three hours in this latest installment of 'Lord of the Rings,' young
people the world over watch my work in the United States and your work here
in Europe -- to get nations to disarm, not to make moral judgments about any
nation other than America or Israel -- undone.
"We who love peace," the Nobel Peace Prize laureate continued, "have to
initiate a campaign to jolt people back to our view of the world. Let's be
clear about the dangers. What if young people start identifying George W.
Bush with Aragorn or Gandalf, and Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden with
Saruman? Even worse, impressionable moviegoers might identify the American
war against Iraq and so-called 'Islamic terror' with the war against the
Orcs and Mordor.
"Who knows what might happen if enough young people start thinking that
war is an option, or that some people or countries can be labeled 'evil,' or
that there is something noble about a soldier who kills for a 'just' cause?"
The former president continued, "I hope that the European community,
enlightened Democrats and progressives in America begin to realize the
potential consequences of this film. There may even be a demand among
American college students to allow the return of ROTC (Reserve Officers
Training Corps) recruiters to campuses. People might start regarding war as
an option.
"When I saw the audience in the movie theater cheer when Orcs were killed,
I shuddered," Mr. Carter said, visibly pained. "The message of 'Lord of the
Rings' is just plain bad.
"We must do something to counteract this celebration of violence," Mr.
Carter said emphatically. "To see even trees fight and kill is enough to mak
e any right-thinking person sick to his or her stomach.
"You Europeans, and we in America who identify with your beautiful values
of moral neutrality and pacifism, must create a major public relations
campaign against these films. We have to use our access to people's hearts
and minds to counter that of Hollywood, which is almost always on our side,
but for the sake of profits has produced this reactionary propaganda.
"We have to publicize our vision of what the movie should have portrayed.
We have to make it clear, for example, that the proper response to Saruman
and the Orcs was for Gandalf and his followers to go to the negotiating
table, not the battlefield. And if only the Middle Earth had a United
Nations and a World Court, no unilateral war against Mordor would ever have
been waged."
Mr. Carter went on to offer suggestions about how to wage a public
relations campaign to turn people against the martial messages of "Lord of
the Rings."
"Let us get the academic community to sign ads in the New York Times and
other journals that identify with our pro-peace vision of the world. These
ads would declare Gandalf a war monger and imperialist, and emphasize that
the Orcs were not evil, but rather suffered from poverty and hopelessness.
"We also need," the former American president continued, "a major bumper
sticker campaign. Every progressive must get a 'War is not the answer' or
'Visualize world peace' sticker to proudly respond to 'Lord of the Rings.'
"The stakes are enormous," the distinguished former president said with
great emotion. "If enough people start thinking in terms of good and evil,
all our years of cultivating moral and cultural relativism, anti-military
thinking, pacifism and internationalism will be jeopardized. And college
students, our greatest hope, may no longer accept their professors' view of
America as an imperialist war monger."
At the conclusion of the interview, Mr. Carter was asked if his campaign
against "Lord of the Rings" had a name. The peace activist thought for a
moment, and replied, "Compassion for Mordor."
This story is fictional, but not false.
©2003 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
Öjevind Lång
news:0AzKb.54248$Ry2....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> Jimmy Carter: 'Compassion for Mordor'
> Dennis Prager
>
> January 6, 2004
>
> OSLO, Norway (Prager News Service, Jan. 5, 2004) -- In a just-published
> interview with the Norwegian Society for Universal Neutrality (NSUN),
former
> U.S. President Jimmy Carter said that the blockbuster trilogy "Lord of the
> Rings" is sending dangerous messages to the world's young people.
[snip]
> This story is fictional, but not false.
>
> ©2003 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
It is both fictional and false.
Öjevind
Mhw61
>
>Öjevind
Not to mention utterly pointless.
Max
"And you know what they said? Well some of it was true"
--The Clash
Morgil
"Öjevind Lång" <dnivej...@swipnet.se> kirjoitti
viestissä:eeBKb.4021$pF....@nntpserver.swip.net...
> "tbx135" <tbx...@msn.com> skrev i meddelandet
> news:0AzKb.54248$Ry2....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > Jimmy Carter: 'Compassion for Mordor'
> > This story is fictional, but not false.
> >
> > ©2003 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
>
> It is both fictional and false.
It would have had point with Two Towers, which
identified anti-war protestors as Wormtongue,
Palestineans as Orcs, and Old Europeans as Ents,
who were too blind to see their peril and join the
"Crusade agains Evil" - among other things.
Morgil
William O'Halloran
circulation by making up stories about Mr. Carter.
I hate seeing his dislike for liberals and pacifist causing him to attack a
former President
Where Mr. Carter is for peace, he is not a role over on your back pacifist
as described her, is both a former ROTC member, and a Commander in the Navy.
BTW, Prager's view of LotR is 180 degrees opposite to the one he gave Mr.
Carter. In his view, the book/movie is proof of his beliefs, that the
"Free/good" people/nations (as in US/Israel) should war against the evil
minions worldwide (as in Arabs, liberals, democrats, ect...) whether or not
they pose an actual threat.(to the US/Israel)
--
"This is just my opinion, I maybe wrong" D. Miller
"Defend free speech! Read a banned book today!" unknown.
"I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to say it with
my Life" Voltaire
cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<dnivej...@swipnet.se> wrote:
are you claiming the enimies of shrub
are not evil fallen angels
but merely humans with a different point of view
i dont understand why you people wont be loyal americans
Hammer
"tbx135" <tbx...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:0AzKb.54248$Ry2....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> Jimmy Carter: 'Compassion for Mordor'
> Dennis Prager
LOL Cute, funny, creative, and deserved by that back-stabbing jerk-off. Best
part is watching it make the Liberals squirm.
Richardinbuxton
"Morgil" <more...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bteqos$6effr$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de...
until money or comfort is involved then go out and smash the first easy
terget you see tee hee
Morgil
"Richardinbuxton" <richard...@hotmail.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:btgj4d$ond$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Morgil" <more...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bteqos$6effr$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > It would have had point with Two Towers, which
> > identified anti-war protestors as Wormtongue,
> > Palestineans as Orcs, and Old Europeans as Ents,
> > who were too blind to see their peril and join the
> > "Crusade agains Evil" - among other things.
> I think you will also find that the Americans are the Dwarves, stay at
home
> until money or comfort is involved then go out and smash the first easy
> terget you see tee hee
Haa haa... USA was obviously Gondor, and Denethor
the Republican administration, determined to use the
Ring, regardless of the decisions of Elrond's Council
(United Nations). Unfortunately only in the EE.
Morgil
Badabing
more...@hotmail.com wrote on 6/1/04 5:20 PM:
Wormtongue was a subtle manipulator, whispering into the ear of a king,
influencing his policies whilst secretly pursuing a hidden agenda. His
nearest real-world equivalent is clearly Dick Cheney.
Richardinbuxton
Don't get involved, don't get involved, make the bad man go away, We just
want the right to strike, sit on our bums, and eat all the best things. Then
finally, well we wouldn't have done it that way.
MasterDebater
> Dennis Prager
>
As [almost] indicated at the bottom of the article, what Dennis Prager has
written here is both fictional *and* false. This type of Christian
Right/Neo-Conservative attack on liberals is somewhat reminiscent of the
many such attacks which Al Franken brings up in his recent 'Lies and the
Lying Liars Who Tell Them' book. How can you tell if a
Right-Wing-Christian/Neo-Conservative such Dennis Prager/Rush Limbaugh/Bill
O'Reilly/George W. Bush is lying? If their mouth is open, then they are
lying.
Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare. He's one
of my personal idols.
However, I *do* believe that for every Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton,
America needs a Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. Conservatives have their
uses, certainly, it's just that *telling the truth* isn't one of them!
Obviously, for a balanced American society, we need strength on both the
right and the left, and so I have always believed that strong conservatives
are [almost] as important to long-term American strength and stability as
strong liberals - the only difference is that, among the less-than-useful
things that conservatives tend to do with the power they are given, making
their own bank accounts stronger, as well as those of their buddies, is,
perhaps, for me, one of the more annoying traits.
So let conservatives be in power occasionally, just don't believe anything
they say.
>
> "Let us get the academic community to sign ads in the New York Times and
> other journals that identify with our pro-peace vision of the world. These
[snip]
>
> "We also need," the former American president continued, "a major bumper
> sticker campaign. Every progressive must get a 'War is not the answer' or
> 'Visualize world peace' sticker
Good ideas.
>
> This story is fictional, but not false.
>
Close. Fictional *and* false.
Russ
<mdb...@rttol.net> writes:
>Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare. He's one
>of my personal idols.
Good man...terrible President.
Russ
----------------------
"Ah yes - we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction because
otherwise they might get mad and seek our destruction."
- Ann Coulter 9/26/2002
Michael O'Neill
>
> In article <vvo8ag...@news.supernews.com>, "MasterDebater"
> <mdb...@rttol.net> writes:
>
> >Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare. He's one
> >of my personal idols.
>
> Good man...terrible President.
<snicker>
Merely because he cleaned out the CIA cesspit?
M.
Morgil
"Richardinbuxton" <richard...@hotmail.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:btgu4l$al7$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Morgil" <more...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:btgm3s$6p0pi$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Haa haa... USA was obviously Gondor, and Denethor
> > the Republican administration, determined to use the
> > Ring, regardless of the decisions of Elrond's Council
> > (United Nations). Unfortunately only in the EE.
> Which definatly puts France as the Elves,
>
> Don't get involved, don't get involved, make the bad man go away, We just
> want the right to strike, sit on our bums, and eat all the best things.
Then
> finally, well we wouldn't have done it that way.
Nope. The Elves were the Coalition of the Willing or
whatever it was called. As I already said, France and
rest of the "Old Europe" were Ents. Old Europe - Old Ents.
Morgil
Morgil
"Badabing" <ba...@boom.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:BC21A865.6478F%ba...@boom.com...
> in article bteqos$6effr$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de, Morgil at
> more...@hotmail.com wrote on 6/1/04 5:20 PM:
> > It would have had point with Two Towers, which
> > identified anti-war protestors as Wormtongue,
> > Palestineans as Orcs, and Old Europeans as Ents,
> > who were too blind to see their peril and join the
> > "Crusade agains Evil" - among other things.
> Wormtongue was a subtle manipulator, whispering into the ear of a king,
> influencing his policies whilst secretly pursuing a hidden agenda. His
> nearest real-world equivalent is clearly Dick Cheney.
Correct, but only in the *book*. In the movies he was
someone who let the enemies run around the country
and commit terrorist acts, labeling those who wanted to
protect the nation as "Warmongers". Pretty simple math.
Morgil
Richardinbuxton
(although she does disappear off with other females quite often)
Morgil
"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
viestissä:20040107103730...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> In article <vvo8ag...@news.supernews.com>, "MasterDebater"
> <mdb...@rttol.net> writes:
>
> >Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare. He's
one
> >of my personal idols.
>
> Good man...terrible President.
What terrible things did he do as President?
Morgil
Badabing
more...@hotmail.com wrote on 7/1/04 5:24 PM:
He was *one of* the enemies himself - a spy, a tactician, playing a power
game for his own benefit. Nothing at all like anti-war protesters.
I would say people who campaign for peace are more 'Hobbit-like' in outlook
but perhaps a true equivalent for those people would be something like a
breakaway band of Orcs who were against their armies invading other lands
and causing death and destruction, but there were no such characters.
Anyway, if they had existed, the regular Orcs would have denounced them as
'unpatriotic'. And eaten them.
Gotta 'protect the security' of the Orc nation you see.
None
More than once every 2,000 years? Cool...
M.
Morgil
"Richardinbuxton" <richard...@hotmail.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:bthfku$3bk$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Morgil" <more...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:btheup$79b6a$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Nope. The Elves were the Coalition of the Willing or
> > whatever it was called. As I already said, France and
> > rest of the "Old Europe" were Ents. Old Europe - Old Ents.
> Nope not sure about the Germans but we Brits get far more sex than the
Ents
> (although she does disappear off with other females quite often)
Ah, but you see Tony Blair IS Pippin...
Morgil
Morgil
"Badabing" <ba...@boom.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:BC21F590.648F6%ba...@boom.com...
> in article bthfc9$7btjk$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de, Morgil at
> more...@hotmail.com wrote on 7/1/04 5:24 PM:
> > someone who let the enemies run around the country
> > and commit terrorist acts, labeling those who wanted to
> > protect the nation as "Warmongers". Pretty simple math.
> He was *one of* the enemies himself - a spy, a tactician, playing a power
> game for his own benefit. Nothing at all like anti-war protesters.
I take it you have not followed the post 9/11 political
debate in US closely? How creatures like Richard Perle
have labeled Vietnam veterans, Democratic Senators
and basically everyone who has dared to speak against
Bush, as traitors and terrorists?
Morgil
Hammer
"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040107103730...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> In article <vvo8ag...@news.supernews.com>, "MasterDebater"
> <mdb...@rttol.net> writes:
>
> >Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare. He's
one
> >of my personal idols.
>
> Good man...terrible President.
You left out huge jerk-off. HUGE.
Hammer
Bush is an idiot. There, you happy? Fortunately, for the most part, he's our
(non-liberal) kind of idiot.
Doesn't make Carter any less of a jerk-off or back-stabbing traitor who
embarrassed his country in front of the entire world. That Nobel was much
more of a slap in the face to America than a pat on Carter's back, and
anyone with common sense knows it.
Of course, anything that damages America seems to please Liberals, so go
figure.
cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
>
> Don't get involved, don't get involved, make the bad man go away, We just
> want the right to strike, sit on our bums, and eat all the best things. Then
> finally, well we wouldn't have done it that way.
note that by the third age
elves had had commited terrible sins and errors before that
and they had learned their lesson that imposing their will on others
dpesnt work
and is just simply wrong
so that by the end of third age they arent trying to burn themselves alive
or stealing talismans of evil
they are quietly guarding the passes of eriador
and taking care of evil outposts in forests like do guldor
without the fanfare and hoopla
just getting the job done
and giving intelligence and rational decision making
some unexpected honor in a world gone mad
cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<more...@hotmail.com> wrote:
didnt bomb iran or saudi arabia into oblivion
when they acted like sovereign nations
Badabing
more...@hotmail.com wrote on 7/1/04 6:13 PM:
Perle sounds like another Wormtongue.
Richardinbuxton
appeared fair so we voted for him and in actual fact he was a pawn of Sauron
(or Bush as we should call him)
Blair is all for saying platitudes, never admitting he is wrong, while
serving a hidden agenda. Oh my God its........................ THATCHER
back.
Richardinbuxton
"cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mair_fheal-07...@c115.ppp.tsoft.com...
Okay I'm convinced. This makes Europe the Elves. Well at least the
ex-colonial parts of it, While Gondor which is descended from Numenor (a
colonial power) wants to forge it's own colonial empire. This would make it
America. Gondor looked down on the hard lessons learnt by the Elves and
would not learn from them. They assumed that anything it did by might was
right, it was deluded into thinking that it alone could defend the free
world (all as shown us by Boromir, who we must take to be an 'average'
Prince of Gondor).
Tamim
snip
> Nope not sure about the Germans but we Brits get far more sex than the Ents
> (although she does disappear off with other females quite often)
But you aren't in the Old Europe. Only the unwilling are.
--
cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
if i remember correctly wormtongue at least at one point
did strap on a sword and incur some physical danger
William O'Halloran
"Morgil" <more...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bthfc9$7btjk$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de...
Sniped
>
> > Wormtongue was a subtle manipulator, whispering into the ear of a king,
> > influencing his policies whilst secretly pursuing a hidden agenda. His
> > nearest real-world equivalent is clearly Dick Cheney.
>
> Correct, but only in the *book*. In the movies he was
> someone who let the enemies run around the country
> and commit terrorist acts, labeling those who wanted to
> protect the nation as "Warmongers". Pretty simple math.
>
> Morgil
>
So I guess Wormtongue is a democrate.
--
"This is just my opinion, I maybe wrong" D. Miller
"Defend free speech! Read a banned book today!" unknown.
"I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to say it with
my Life" Voltaire
Nuki_Mouse
BaronjosefR
news:0AzKb.54248$Ry2....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> Jimmy Carter: 'Compassion for Mordor'
> Dennis Prager
>
>As [almost] indicated at the bottom of the >article, what Dennis Prager has
>written here is both fictional *and* false. This type of Christian
>Right/Neo-Conservative attack on liberals >is somewhat reminiscent of the
>many such attacks which Al Franken >brings up in his recent 'Lies and the
>Lying Liars Who Tell Them' book. How can >you tell if a
>Right-Wing-Christian/Neo-Conservative >such Dennis Prager/Rush Limbaugh/Bill
>O'Reilly/George W. Bush is lying? If their >mouth is open, then they are
>lying.
>Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* >Christian Statesmen. Very rare. He's one
>of my personal idols.<
You are aware that Carter gave tacit approval for the harsh clampdown of
pro-democracy demonstrators in South Jorea in 1978, aren't you? You are aware
that Carter authorized the largest percentage increase of CIA funding in
America's history, aren't you? You are aware that Carter completely botched the
handling of the Iranian hostage crisis, aren't you? You are aware that Carter
had to bribe both Israel and Egypt, to the tune of about 250 million dollars
over the past 35 years, to get them togerther at Camp David, aren't you? You
are aware that one of Carter's largest campaign donors was Phillip Morris,
aren't you? You are aware that there is nor real difference between the
Republicrats and the Demicans, aren't you? The ONLY good thign to say about
Carter is that Habitats for Humanity, as it was run in the eighties (too much
theft and fraud now) when Carter was more involved, was a wonderful program.
B
"I know who Ghandi was. I think he ran a gas station in St. Louis." - Hillary
Clinton.
William O'Halloran
"Hammer" <for...@bout.it> wrote in message
news:KjYKb.212531$%h4.7...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
SNIPPED
> > I take it you have not followed the post 9/11 political
> > debate in US closely? How creatures like Richard Perle
> > have labeled Vietnam veterans, Democratic Senators
> > and basically everyone who has dared to speak against
> > Bush, as traitors and terrorists?
>
> Bush is an idiot. There, you happy? Fortunately, for the most part, he's
our
> (non-liberal) kind of idiot.
>
> Doesn't make Carter any less of a jerk-off or back-stabbing traitor who
> embarrassed his country in front of the entire world. That Nobel was much
> more of a slap in the face to America than a pat on Carter's back, and
> anyone with common sense knows it.
>
> Of course, anything that damages America seems to please Liberals, so go
> figure.
>
First, let me say that I'm a moderate republician who voted for Pres. Reagan
rather Pres. Carter. If for some reason Mr. Carter were to run again I most
likely would not vote for him
-HOWEVER-
Jimmy Carter is NOT an emparrasment, nor a traitor.
There are only 1 action taken by him (IMHO) that could be considered even
remotely "traitorous"
That was his trip to Cuba. While Pres. G. W. Bush did did not authorize the
visit, but the administration DID give him permission to go. While there he
called for Cuban political reforms, a mult-party democratic system, and for
a normalization of relations with Cuba.
Lately Mr Carter has taken some heat from the Ultra right for his views on
Iraq, but this IS the US, where we have freedom of speach.
Mr Carter did speak out against the invasion of Iraq, stating that we should
seek the backing of the UN for the invasion and should exhaust all other
aveunes FIRST. He also said the must mantian the threat of war, never ruled
out that invasion might be needed, and condemn Saddam and his Rule.
What esle has Mr Carter done since 1980?
*Started "Habits for Humanity" to build low cost housing for the poor.
*Started the "Carter Center Foundation" a neutral body to call for democracy
reforms worldwide and to monitor free elections for corruption and vote
tampering. SOME ultra rightwing mambers and conspirancy threory nuts think
this is part of the "New World Order"
BTW Current Sec. of State General Colin Powell (and life-long Republican)
worked with closly with the Carter Center thoughout the 1990's, traveling
with Mr Carter and observation teams to monitor elections in Haiti, Jamaica,
and Nigeria. But he had to stop in 2000 when he became Sec. of State.
Plus Former Pres. Gerald Ford has also worked with Fr. Pres. Carter as the
Joint leaders of the observation team sent to the Panamanian elections.
Does that make Gerald Ford or Colin Powell back-stabbing traitors or
embarassments?
ALSO, in 1987 President Reagan was a Keynote speaker at the Dedication of
the Carter Center, Where he graciously praised Mr. Carter for his work
towards world peace.
*Brokered peace talks in dozens of countries and disputes world wide.
*Became a Chairman (along with Former Pres. Ford, Reagan, and Bush, Sr) of
the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) commission.
*Opened the Cater Presidential Library
*Was awarded the first UN Human Rights Prize.
*Was presented with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian
award in the United States.
*Won the 2002 Nobel peace prize.
Tell me, what part of this is back-stabbing, traitorous, or an embarrassment
to the US?
William O'Halloran
"BaronjosefR" <> wrote in message
news:20040107162846...@mb-m07.aol.com...
> "tbx135" <tbx...@msn.com> wrote in message
SNIPPED
>
> You are aware that Carter gave tacit approval for the harsh clampdown of
> pro-democracy demonstrators in South Jorea in 1978, aren't you?
Is that anywhere near North Jorea? Plus, are you saying S. Korea is some
type of vassal to the US, where we can order or approve actions of their
Government? The only "Tacit" approval Mr. Carter gave was not to interfere
with the internal politics an a sovereign nation, he did condemn their
actions.
You are aware
> that Carter authorized the largest percentage increase of CIA funding in
> America's history, aren't you?
And THIS was some great evil? The CIA was now under a congressional mandate
and executive order not to precipitate in domestic intelligence.
Or was it because of their Director, former Senator and future Pres. G.
Bush?
Plus whereas Mr. Carter authorized the largest ONE TIME percentage increase,
Pres. Reagan by far surpassed him on total monetary increase in funding.
You are aware that Carter completely botched the
> handling of the Iranian hostage crisis, aren't you?
What, they weren't freed? The Rescue attempt was a hose job, but that was
not the President's fault. as C-in-C, he authorized the attempt but did not
plan it. He left that up to the Joint Chiefs, having no direct experience
in covert ops. But he took personal responsibility for the failure rather
than finger pointing at everyone else.
PLUS he DID negotiate their release, Iran just stalled their release to
moments after Pres. Reagan was sworn in, just to spite Mr. Carter.
You are aware that Carter
> had to bribe both Israel and Egypt, to the tune of about 250 million
dollars
> over the past 35 years, to get them together at Camp David, aren't you?
Only 250 mil over 35 years, quite a bargain! Especially compared to the 5
billion we gave them (Israel and Egypt) LAST YEAR ALONE.
(PSST! the Camp David Accords was only 25 years ago, not 35.)
BTW the $250 million was OPENLY authorized as our part of the accords, both
sides wanted certain monetary concessions for the other, Egypt for the
damage to the Suez canal, Israel for war reparations for Egypt invading
them. we just agreed to help pay them if they made peace.
You
> are aware that one of Carter's largest campaign donors was Phillip Morris,
> aren't you?
You mean a LEGAL company, that makes a LEGAL product, LEGALLY gave campaign
donations to Mr. Carter?
How evil.
But I think he paid them back, in was vehemently Anti-Smoking, and as Pres.
lead the first govt sponsored nation-wide anti-smoking campaign.
You are aware that there is nor real difference between the
> Republicrats and the Demicans, aren't you?
Never heard of those parties, but there is a huge difference between The
Democrats and Republicans. Unless your and Ultra Left -or- Right wing
conspiracy nut, then I guess they might look the same, to YOU.
The ONLY good thign to say about
> Carter is that Habitats for Humanity, as it was run in the eighties (too
much
> theft and fraud now) when Carter was more involved, was a wonderful
program.
How about promoting world peace, monitoring free elections world wide for
fraud and/or corruption, the Cater Center, The Presidential Freedom Medal or
winning the Nobel peace prize?
>
> B
>
> "I know who Ghandi was. I think he ran a gas station in St. Louis." -
Hillary
> Clinton.
--
BaronjosefR
news:20040107162846...@mb-m07.aol.com...
> "tbx135" <tbx...@msn.com> wrote in message
SNIPPED
>
> You are aware that Carter gave tacit approval for the harsh clampdown of
> pro-democracy demonstrators in South Jorea in 1978, aren't you?
Is that anywhere near North Jorea? Plus, are you saying S. Korea is some
type of vassal to the US, where we can order or approve actions of their
Government? The only "Tacit" approval Mr. Carter gave was not to interfere
with the internal politics an a sovereign nation, he did condemn their
actions.>>>>>>>>
As the executions that resulted from the put-down of the demonstrations may
have been prevented had Carter displayed some backbone and kept the clampdown
from occuring, I will gladly criticize him for it. He could have prevented
hundreds of student deaths.
http://koreaweb.ws/pipermail/koreanstudies_koreaweb.ws/1999-June/001454.html
My only mistake was saying the approval was tacit. According to articles I have
found concerning the issue, Carter Administration officials gave outright
approval. And my apologies for not having typing skills akin to your own. I am
sure you are a very good secretary.>>>>>>
>>>You are aware
> that Carter authorized the largest percentage increase of CIA funding in
> America's history, aren't you?
And THIS was some great evil? The CIA was now under a congressional mandate
and executive order not to precipitate in domestic intelligence.
Or was it because of their Director, former Senator and future Pres. G.
Bush?
Plus whereas Mr. Carter authorized the largest ONE TIME percentage increase,
Pres. Reagan by far surpassed him on total monetary increase in funding.<<<<<<
First, Carter authorized the largest increases in CIA funding. Not Reagan.
Reagan was too busy giving reach-arounds to the Contras. It doesn't matter. A
bloated CIA Secret-Police bureacracy is not a good thing. Does the CIA have its
uses? Of course. But as 9-11 shows, too much fat is a dangerous
thing.>>>>>>>>>>>
You are aware that Carter completely botched the
> handling of the Iranian hostage crisis, aren't you?
What, they weren't freed? The Rescue attempt was a hose job, but that was
not the President's fault. as C-in-C, he authorized the attempt but did not
plan it. He left that up to the Joint Chiefs, having no direct experience
in covert ops. But he took personal responsibility for the failure rather
than finger pointing at everyone else.
PLUS he DID negotiate their release, Iran just stalled their release to
moments after Pres. Reagan was sworn in, just to spite Mr. Carter.<<<<<<<<<
Zbigniew Brezinski, Carter's National Security Advisor was known to criticize
Carter, at that time, concerning Carter's lack of diplomatic action of the
Iranian hostage situation. By trying to isolate Iran and not choosing a course
of action either diplomatically or militarily. It took Cyrus vance, negotiating
behind Carter's back that got the first thirteen hostages released. Vance also
warned Carter of that a rescue mission would not only be dangerous, but also
likely to fail for a half dozen different reasosn. Carter's inaction
exacerbated the situation, which led to a disasterous raid, world ridicule, and
a much longer time-frame to resolve the issue.
http://humwww.ucsc.edu/history/historyjournal/edbernhardt.html
<<<<
>>>>>>You are aware that Carter
> had to bribe both Israel and Egypt, to the tune of about 250 million
dollars > over the past 35 years, to get them together at Camp David, aren't
you?
Only 250 mil over 35 years, quite a bargain! Especially compared to the 5
billion we gave them (Israel and Egypt) LAST YEAR ALONE.
(PSST! the Camp David Accords was only 25 years ago, not 35.)
BTW the $250 million was OPENLY authorized as our part of the accords, both
sides wanted certain monetary concessions for the other, Egypt for the
damage to the Suez canal, Israel for war reparations for Egypt invading
them. we just agreed to help pay them if they made peace.
First, and I aplogize for my abysmal typing skills. It is 250 BILLION. Not 250
million. Sorry about that.. And in the meantime, Egypt has realized nearly 20
billion dollars a year from the oil revenues generated by the Sinai. Meanwhile
we paid for a peace that was already in place. Israel, by the time the Accords
occured, was already the dominant military in the area, and Egypt was no match
for them. The peace could have been made without U.S. money.
As well, the money has been used by Israel to buy a wall, that if it were right
along their legal borders, I wouldn't have a problem with, but instead cuts
deeply into Palestinian territory. That money has helped to exacerbate a
situation that has caused the loss of thousands of lives, emboldened Sharon and
the Likud to dismiss the idea of negotiated settlement, and generally has
screwed up the whole situation. (You cut off monetary aid to both the
Palestinians and Israelis until they make peace, and you will be amazed at how
quickly they hit the negotiating table.)<<<
>>>>>You
> are aware that one of Carter's largest campaign donors was Phillip Morris,
> aren't you?
You mean a LEGAL company, that makes a LEGAL product, LEGALLY gave campaign
donations to Mr. Carter?
How evil. But I think he paid them back, in was vehemently Anti-Smoking, and as
Pres.
lead the first govt sponsored nation-wide anti-smoking campaign.
So you are saying that he ws a hypocrite for taking their money? I never really
thought of Carter that way, but you may be right. Either way, he took hundreds
of thousands of dollars of blood money from a company that sells a product to
children that will kill them. He may have started anti-smoking campaigns, but
he was still signing budgets that subsidized tobacco farmers.<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>You are aware that there is nor real difference between the
> Republicrats and the Demicans, aren't you?
Never heard of those parties, but there is a huge difference between The
Democrats and Republicans. Unless your and Ultra Left -or- Right wing
conspiracy nut, then I guess they might look the same, to YOU.
70% of corporate donors donate money to both parties. One mid-Atlantic Senator
was a "kleagal" (recruiter) for the Ku Klux Klan, and wrote supportive letters
concerning the Klan for a decade after he supposedly wuit the organization.
DEMOCRAT Robert Byrd was just a Southern Good Ole Boy. Or how about other
Southern DEMOCRATS that are anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, pro-NRA, etc? I can
also show you several very moderate Republicans who, if you didn't know who
they were, would be mistaken for Democrats. Which is also why you hear of
people switching parties every so often. There is no real difference between
the two parties. The United States is a one-party state masquerading as a
two-party state.
http://vikingphoenix.com/news/madminute/2002/mm2002-05.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>The ONLY good thign to say about
> Carter is that Habitats for Humanity, as it was run in the eighties (too
much
> theft and fraud now) when Carter was more involved, was a wonderful
program.
How about promoting world peace, monitoring free elections world wide for
fraud and/or corruption, the Cater Center, The Presidential Freedom Medal or
winning the Nobel peace prize?
The Nobel Prize was given to tweak Bush. No other reason. The Carter center
really means nothing to me. Anyone who doesn't consider Habitat for Humanity to
be Carter's crowning achievement in life has no clue as to what is going on in
the world. But one thing is for certain: If Carter had actually been the
president that you are trying to make him out to be, he'd have been the
greatest president ever, instead of the poor excuse for a leader that he
actually was.
By the way, I won't even talk about the double-digit hyper-inflation that his
economic policies spawned. Carter's economic policies make Bush the Youngers
policies seem rational. That's pretty scary.
Russ
mair_...@yahoo.com (cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges)
writes:
>didnt bomb iran or saudi arabia into oblivion
>when they acted like sovereign nations
Taking diplomats hostage is acting like a sovereign nation?
Russ
16 per cent interest rates, rampant inflation and the Iranian hostage crisis.
Russ
writes:
Yeah, cleaned it out so it was impotent.
Worse still was the 16% interest rates, rampant inflation, and hostages in
Iran.
Morgil
"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
viestissä:20040107225608...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> In article <bthflm$7gv2g$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Morgil"
> <more...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
> >viestissä:20040107103730...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> >> In article <vvo8ag...@news.supernews.com>, "MasterDebater"
> >> <mdb...@rttol.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare.
He's
> >one
> >> >of my personal idols.
> >>
> >> Good man...terrible President.
> >
> >What terrible things did he do as President?
>
> 16 per cent interest rates, rampant inflation and the Iranian hostage
crisis.
So he was bad for the economy? How exactly?
Maybe he just had to clear up the mess left by
the previous President?
Morgil
cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<more...@hotmail.com> wrote:
this was when opec first flexed its muscles
and screwed arund the us and world economy
i guess he was expected to install another shah
like what the usa and uk did before to protect bp
Morgil
"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
viestissä:20040107225608...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> <more...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
> >viestissä:20040107103730...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> >> In article <vvo8ag...@news.supernews.com>, "MasterDebater"
> >> <mdb...@rttol.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare.
He's
> >one
> >> >of my personal idols.
> >>
> >> Good man...terrible President.
> >
> >What terrible things did he do as President?
>
> 16 per cent interest rates, rampant inflation and the Iranian hostage
crisis.
Looking for info of Carter's Presidency in the net,
brings up thye following interesting details:
"On his first full day in office, Carter pardoned all Vietnam draft
evaders."
"Among the accomplishments of his administration were the SALT II treaty,
deregulation of the airline and banking industries, lifting price controls
on oil and the Panama Canal Treaty."
"The crowning achievement of the administration was the signing of the Camp
David Accords between Israel and Egypt."
"Carter cannot be blamed for the double-digit inflation that peaked on his
watch, because inflation started growing in 1965 and snowballed for the next
15 years. To battle inflation, Carter appointed Paul Volcker as Chairman of
the Federal Reserve Board, who defeated it by putting the nation through an
intentional recession. Once the threat of inflation abated in late 1982,
Volcker cut interest rates and flooded the economy with money, fueling an
expansion that lasted seven years. Neither Carter nor Reagan had much to do
with the economic events that occurred during their terms."
"Carter faced a drastic erosion of the value of the US dollar and a
persistent trade deficit, much of it a result of US dependence on foreign
oil. The president warned that Americans were wasting too much energy, that
domestic supplies of oil and natural gas were running out, and that foreign
supplies of petroleum were subject to embargoes by the producing nations,
principally by members of OPEC. In mid-1979, in the wake of widespread
shortages of gasoline, Carter advanced a long-term program designed to solve
the energy problem. He proposed a limit on imported oil, gradual price
decontrol on domestically produced oil, a stringent program of conservation,
and development of alternative sources of energy such as solar, nuclear, and
geothermal power, oil and gas from shale and coal, and synthetic fuels. In
what was probably his most significant domestic legislative accomplishment,
he was able to get a significant portion of his energy program through
Congress."
Seems that a simple "Bad President" doesn't quite cut it.
Morgil
Morgil
"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
viestissä:20040107225608...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> <more...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
> >viestissä:20040107103730...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> >
> >What terrible things did he do as President?
>
> 16 per cent interest rates, rampant inflation and the Iranian hostage
crisis.
52 people being held hostage and 8 marines getting killed
makes one a Bad President? Boy, have the times changed! ;)
Problem with critisizing Carter of the hostage crisis is that
so far nobody has come up with any better ideas of how
it should have been handled.
Morgil
cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<more...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
> viestissä:20040107225608...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> > In article <bthflm$7gv2g$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Morgil"
> > <more...@hotmail.com> writes:
> >
> > >"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
> > >viestissä:20040107103730...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> > >> Good man...terrible President.
> > >
> > >What terrible things did he do as President?
> >
> > 16 per cent interest rates, rampant inflation and the Iranian hostage
> crisis.
>
> 52 people being held hostage and 8 marines getting killed
> makes one a Bad President? Boy, have the times changed! ;)
thats american morality
if you do nothing and ten people suffer
then youre disciple of the devil
if you do something and a hundred people suffer
then god smiles on you
usa policy has lots of case of choosing the more expensive or damaging
so that you can claim you are more moral
universal healthcare would reduce healthcare cost and greatly reduce suffering
but the idea of giving away healthcare is morally repugnant
so we choose the more expensive and damaging course
lots of stuff like that
> Problem with critisizing Carter of the hostage crisis is that
> so far nobody has come up with any better ideas of how
> it should have been handled.
nuke teheran
Michael O'Neill
>
> In article <3FFC3D7E...@indigo.ie>, Michael O'Neill <o...@indigo.ie>
> writes:
>
> >Russ wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <vvo8ag...@news.supernews.com>, "MasterDebater"
> >> <mdb...@rttol.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare. He's
> >one
> >> >of my personal idols.
> >>
> >> Good man...terrible President.
> >
> ><snicker>
> >
> >Merely because he cleaned out the CIA cesspit?
>
> Yeah, cleaned it out so it was impotent.
>
> Worse still was the 16% interest rates, rampant inflation, and hostages in
> Iran.
Worse still was the fact that all "valuable" operatives in the CIA were
simply moved into the DEA, currently headed by Asa [Mena where?] the
Fuckwit.
Poachers turned gamekeepers.
M.
Michael O'Neill
>
> In article <mair_fheal-07...@c115.ppp.tsoft.com>,
> mair_...@yahoo.com (cassandras morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges)
> writes:
>
> >didnt bomb iran or saudi arabia into oblivion
> >when they acted like sovereign nations
>
> Taking diplomats hostage is acting like a sovereign nation?
Okay, okay, it should have been the President.
M.
"The Coup will not be televised."
Michael O'Neill
>
> In article <bthflm$7gv2g$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Morgil"
> <more...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
> >viestissä:20040107103730...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> >> In article <vvo8ag...@news.supernews.com>, "MasterDebater"
> >> <mdb...@rttol.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare. He's
> >one
> >> >of my personal idols.
> >>
> >> Good man...terrible President.
> >
> >What terrible things did he do as President?
>
> 16 per cent interest rates, rampant inflation and the Iranian hostage crisis.
Yeah, all he really did was shift the CIA boys into the DEA and now
they're working under Asa [WHAT druggling smuggling through Mena,
Arkansas?] Hutchinson.
M.
Smaug69
> In article <bthflm$7gv2g$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Morgil"
> <more...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
> >viestissä:20040107103730...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> >> In article <vvo8ag...@news.supernews.com>, "MasterDebater"
> >> <mdb...@rttol.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare. He's
> one
> >> >of my personal idols.
> >>
> >> Good man...terrible President.
> >
> >What terrible things did he do as President?
>
> 16 per cent interest rates, rampant inflation and the Iranian hostage crisis.
Wow. Using this criteria as a measuring stick to how terrible a
president is then Kennedy was one of the worst presidents of all time.
Smaug69
Mhw61
>the Federal Reserve Board, who defeated it by putting the nation through
>an
>intentional recession
Appointing Paul Volcker alone gets Carter of the list of "bad" Presidents in my
book.
Though I wouldn't qualify him as an especially good one, either. (In fact, I
wouldn't rate any of our President's since Ike as being anything other than
average or worse).
Max
"And you know what they said? Well some of it was true"
--The Clash
Russ
(Smaug69) writes:
Well, he wasn't that great. He had no accomplishments. He had a romantic
image.
Russ
>> >What terrible things did he do as President?
>>
>> 16 per cent interest rates, rampant inflation and the Iranian hostage
>crisis.
>
>So he was bad for the economy? How exactly?
>Maybe he just had to clear up the mess left by
>the previous President?
No the economy got worse and worse throughout his term. It was his policies
and economic team that were firmly to blame. High inflation, high unemployment
, economy in recession, high interest rates. Rates on US treasury securities
were even higher than those during the Civil War. Stock market in the crapper.
All happened on his watch.
Russ
>In article <btitg4$7q581$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Morgil"
No, that happened in 1973. Carter didn't take office until 1977.
But thanks for playing anyway.
<snip>
Mhw61
There was a second OPEC-managed fuel crisis while Carter was in office.
While it caused severe problems, it did not have the impact of the first, in
part because we'd learned how to deal with the problem with programs like 10
gallon limits, odd-even gas buying days and the fact that many Americans had
purchased more fuel-efficient vehicles in the intervening years.
But the second OPEC boycott did do a lot of damage to the economy, which hadn't
really yet recovered from the first. It was certainly a major factor in
Carter's seemingly dismal economic record. Of course, the economy hadn't
exactly been thriving under the two previous administrations either.
MasterDebater
news:AA2Lb.5239$p33....@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
>
>
> How about promoting world peace, monitoring free elections world wide for
> fraud and/or corruption, the Cater Center, The Presidential Freedom Medal
or
> winning the Nobel peace prize?
>
Thanks for the supporting, informed, and accurate response to the
less-than-accurate attack against Carter. I never cease to be amazed at how
some people, usually right-wing conservative Republicans, can convince
themselves that Presidents like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were lousy and
did a bunch of rotten things. The vast majority of what I hear from most
people who are right of center concerning the last two Democratic American
Presidents is usually laughable in its crap-factor [amount of lies].
Although the far-left certainly has its share of unreasonable lying
fanatics, I have always found that right-wing lying, pretension, and
truth-twisting is usually more pernicious in its intent, ruthless in its
implementation, and totalitarian in its results.
Mhw61
>truth-twisting is usually more pernicious in its intent, ruthless in its
>implementation, and totalitarian in its results.
You and George Orwell both.
Russ
<mdb...@rttol.net> writes:
>"William O'Halloran" <Nukm...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
>news:AA2Lb.5239$p33....@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
>>
>>
>> How about promoting world peace, monitoring free elections world wide for
>> fraud and/or corruption, the Cater Center, The Presidential Freedom Medal
>or
>> winning the Nobel peace prize?
>>
>
>Thanks for the supporting, informed, and accurate response to the
>less-than-accurate attack against Carter.
We're talking about how good a *President* he was. How many of those
achievements did he do during his *Presidency*?
Russ
(Mhw61) writes:
>>No, that happened in 1973
>
>There was a second OPEC-managed fuel crisis while Carter was in office.
Either way, the buck stops with him. Either it was bad economic policy or a
failure of diplomacy.
<snip>
BaronjosefR
Thanks for the supporting, informed, and accurate response to the
less-than-accurate attack against Carter. I never cease to be amazed at how
some people, usually right-wing conservative Republicans, can convince
themselves that Presidents like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were lousy and
did a bunch of rotten things. The vast majority of what I hear from most
people who are right of center concerning the last two Democratic American
Presidents is usually laughable in its crap-factor [amount of lies].
Although the far-left certainly has its share of unreasonable lying
fanatics, I have always found that right-wing lying, pretension, and
truth-twisting is usually more pernicious in its intent, ruthless in its
implementation, and totalitarian in its results.
<<<<<<<<<
Actually, you are making generalities that just aren't true. Carter WAS a lousy
president. The only benefit of the doubt I can give him is that it was an
enormously difficult task, following Nixon and Ford, to be a good president,
for obvious reasons. Clinton, on the other hand could have been one of the
greatest presidents ever, if he'd have kept his dick in his pants. As it was,
he did a very good job of navigating a centrist agenda, despite his own very
liberal leanings. If Clinton had had not granted Lewinsky a set of presidential
kneepads, he would have had the moral authority to go after Osama bin Asswipe
in full force and not been accused of trying to overshadow the exposure of his
dirty laundry. The time Clinton spent lying to investigators, face-fucking very
fat interns, and fighting the resulting fallout from his misadventures could
have been used to bring down terrorism, force the peace between Israelis and
Palestinians, and keep the past recession from even happening.
Instead, Bin Asswipe was left to plan 9-11, Arafat used Clinton's desire to
build a legacy other than a stained dress to try and force more concessions
from Barak, which neatly backfired when Barak pulled the entire Israeli
proposal off the table due to Arafat's greed, and it was the average consumer's
confidence (the drop thereof) in Clinton's leadership over his last 18 months
which led to the recession.
Nearly everything Clinton had worked for was thrown away, leaving nothing
behind but residue on a blue dress, when the sad thing is, he could have been
one of the greatest president's ever.
BaronjosefR
> >>
> >> >Jimmy Carter was one of the *true* Christian Statesmen. Very rare. He's
> one
> >> >of my personal idols.
> >>
> >> Good man...terrible President.
> >
> >What terrible things did he do as President?
>
> 16 per cent interest rates, rampant inflation and the Iranian hostage crisis.
Wow. Using this criteria as a measuring stick to how terrible a
president is then Kennedy was one of the worst presidents of all time.
Smaug69<<<
Glad you agree
Smaug69
<snip>
> >> 16 per cent interest rates, rampant inflation and the Iranian hostage
> >crisis.
> >
> >Wow. Using this criteria as a measuring stick to how terrible a
> >president is then Kennedy was one of the worst presidents of all time.
>
> Well, he wasn't that great. He had no accomplishments. He had a romantic
> image.
What do you mean he had no accomplishments? What about Vietnam? What
about the Bay of Pigs "incident?" What's always been interesting to me
is the credit he was given for civil rights issues and legislation
when, in fact, most, if not all, of the significant legislation
occurred on Johnson's watch.
Smaug69
Russ
Well, "accomplishment" usually means a good thing so I think it's correct to
say JFK had no accomplishments. That is not to say he might not have achieved
some had he had more time but his track record in the time he had was pretty
poor.
Mhw61
>or a
>failure of diplomacy.
It actually had a lot to do with the revolution in Iran and the ongoing
instability in the Middle East. Trying to pin those on Carter's policies is a
little shortsighted and unfair, to say the least.
Russ
(Mhw61) writes:
>>Either way, the buck stops with him. Either it was bad economic policy
>>or a
>>failure of diplomacy.
>
>It actually had a lot to do with the revolution in Iran
Like I said, a failure in diplomacy. The Shah left Iran in January 1979. The
hostages were not taken until over nine months later in November 1979. The
deterioration of the situation happened on his watch.
> and the ongoing
>instability in the Middle East.
The Middle East has always been unstable. Other Presidents managed to avoid
what Carter did not.
> Trying to pin those on Carter's policies is a little shortsighted and
unfair, to say >the least.
I disagree. Carter's foreign policy was a litany of errors. The loss of
Nicaragua to communists, the loss of Iran to Shiite fundamentalists, the
Iranian hostage crisis, the oil crisis, the descent of Afghanistan into what
would become a generation of brutality. The situation in Iran led directly to
Saddam Hussein's coup in Iraq and the start of that bloody war.
All of these events can be traced, in part, to the Carter Administration's
amateurish and weak foreign policy.
Hammer
>
>
> "Hammer" <for...@bout.it> wrote in message
> news:KjYKb.212531$%h4.7...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> SNIPPED
> > > I take it you have not followed the post 9/11 political
> > > debate in US closely? How creatures like Richard Perle
> > > have labeled Vietnam veterans, Democratic Senators
> > > and basically everyone who has dared to speak against
> > > Bush, as traitors and terrorists?
> >
> > Bush is an idiot. There, you happy? Fortunately, for the most part, he's
> our
> > (non-liberal) kind of idiot.
> >
> > Doesn't make Carter any less of a jerk-off or back-stabbing traitor who
> > embarrassed his country in front of the entire world. That Nobel was much
> > more of a slap in the face to America than a pat on Carter's back, and
> > anyone with common sense knows it.
> >
> > Of course, anything that damages America seems to please Liberals, so go
> > figure.
> >
>
> First, let me say that I'm a moderate republician who voted for Pres. Reagan
> rather Pres. Carter. If for some reason Mr. Carter were to run again I most
> likely would not vote for him
>
> -HOWEVER-
>
> Jimmy Carter is NOT an emparrasment, nor a traitor.
> There are only 1 action taken by him (IMHO) that could be considered even
> remotely "traitorous"
> That was his trip to Cuba. While Pres. G. W. Bush did did not authorize the
> visit, but the administration DID give him permission to go. While there he
> called for Cuban political reforms, a mult-party democratic system, and for
> a normalization of relations with Cuba.
>
> Lately Mr Carter has taken some heat from the Ultra right for his views on
> Iraq, but this IS the US, where we have freedom of speach.
> Mr Carter did speak out against the invasion of Iraq, stating that we should
> seek the backing of the UN for the invasion and should exhaust all other
> aveunes FIRST. He also said the must mantian the threat of war, never ruled
> out that invasion might be needed, and condemn Saddam and his Rule.
>
> What esle has Mr Carter done since 1980?
>
> *Started "Habits for Humanity" to build low cost housing for the poor.
> *Started the "Carter Center Foundation" a neutral body to call for democracy
> reforms worldwide and to monitor free elections for corruption and vote
> tampering. SOME ultra rightwing mambers and conspirancy threory nuts think
> this is part of the "New World Order"
> BTW Current Sec. of State General Colin Powell (and life-long Republican)
> worked with closly with the Carter Center thoughout the 1990's, traveling
> with Mr Carter and observation teams to monitor elections in Haiti, Jamaica,
> and Nigeria. But he had to stop in 2000 when he became Sec. of State.
> Plus Former Pres. Gerald Ford has also worked with Fr. Pres. Carter as the
> Joint leaders of the observation team sent to the Panamanian elections.
> Does that make Gerald Ford or Colin Powell back-stabbing traitors or
> embarassments?
> ALSO, in 1987 President Reagan was a Keynote speaker at the Dedication of
> the Carter Center, Where he graciously praised Mr. Carter for his work
> towards world peace.
> *Brokered peace talks in dozens of countries and disputes world wide.
> *Became a Chairman (along with Former Pres. Ford, Reagan, and Bush, Sr) of
> the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) commission.
> *Opened the Cater Presidential Library
> *Was awarded the first UN Human Rights Prize.
> *Was presented with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian
> award in the United States.
> *Won the 2002 Nobel peace prize.
>
> Tell me, what part of this is back-stabbing, traitorous, or an embarrassment
> to the US?
>
> --
> "This is just my opinion, I maybe wrong" D. Miller
> "Defend free speech! Read a banned book today!" unknown.
> "I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to say it with
> my Life" Voltaire
>
> Nuki_Mouse
THE COMMUNISTS LOVE THEIR PAWN
Hammer
My bad. Those last three links are all the same article. Since I couldn't
care less about the piece of shit, I'll leave it to you to decide how much
research to do and time to waste.
Hammer
"MasterDebater" <mdb...@rttol.net> wrote in message
news:vvraf9n...@news.supernews.com...
> ...
> I never cease to be amazed at how
> some people, usually right-wing conservative Republicans, can convince
> themselves that Presidents like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were lousy
and
> did a bunch of rotten things.
HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE BILL CLINTON'S FRIEND ??
The following is a list of dead people connected with Bill Clinton:
James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an
apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key
witness in Ken Starr's investigation.
Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a
Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she
was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
Vince Foster - Former white House counselor, and colleague of Hillary
Clinton at Little Rock's Rose law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the
head, ruled a suicide.
Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to
have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the
investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull
resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being
investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with
prosecutors.
C. Victor Raiser II & Montgomery Raiser - Major players in the Clinton
fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.
Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found
dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by
Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor".
Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the
woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide.
Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill
Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was
involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little
Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little
Rock. Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He
allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files
were mysteriously removed from his house.
James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a
"Black Book" of people containing names of influential people who
visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.
James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging
suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.
Kathy Ferguson - Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson died in May
1994 was found dead in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It
was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as
if she was going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with
Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible
corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
Bill Shelton - Arkansas state Trooper and fiancée of Kathy Ferguson.
Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancée, he was found dead in
June,1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the gravesite of
his fiancée.
Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater died by jumping
out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a
convicted drug distributor.
Florence Martin - Accountant sub-contractor for the CIA related to the
Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot
wounds.
Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was
Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the
head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until
her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and
Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent
suicide in the middle of his investigation.
Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with
Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June
22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet
Reno 3 weeks before his death.
Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp.
Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony
August 15, 1993 Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.
Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron
Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996.
Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department
of Commerce.
Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang
special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane
crash.
Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care
Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane
crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council
personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.
Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, Death was no
accident.
Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the
trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility
pole.
Stanley Huggins - Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report
was never released.
Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1,1994
when his plane exploded.
Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports
say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug
operation. Controversial case where initial report of death was due to
falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had
been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case
died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.
THE FOLLOWING SIX PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON
THE IVES / HENRY CASE:
Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck
July, 1988
Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in
April 1989.
James Milan - Found decapitated. Coroner ruled death due to natural causes.
Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup
truck in June 1990.
Richard Winters - Was a suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. Was killed in a
set-up robbery July 1989
THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD
Major William S. Barkley Jr.
Captain Scott J. Reynolds
Sgt. Brian Hanley
Sgt. Tim Sabel
Major General William Robertson
Col. William Densberger
Col. Robert Kelly
Spec. Gary Rhodes
Steve Willis
Robert Williams
Conway LeBleu
Todd McKeehan
Graeme
>
How would you like to talk about Tolkien?
Gregg Cattanach
news:btj18c$7i26c$1...@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de...
> 52 people being held hostage and 8 marines getting killed
> makes one a Bad President? Boy, have the times changed! ;)
>
> Problem with critisizing Carter of the hostage crisis is that
> so far nobody has come up with any better ideas of how
> it should have been handled.
>
> Morgil
Agreed, everyone seems to forget the fact that as horrible as that incident
was, NONE of the hostages were killed; all were eventually released.
Carter is a real bleeding heart of the nth degree, but is a brilliant man,
despite his politics. He's the only President in recent memory that
actually did something useful with his fame and prestige after his
presidency was over.
Gregg C.
Gregg C.
Mhw61
>> makes one a Bad President? Boy, have the times changed! ;)
Well, getting 243 marines killed makes you worthy of having your head on a
dime.
Hammer
"Graeme" <graem...@aol.compost> wrote in message
news:20040109152506...@mb-m03.aol.com...
> >HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE BILL CLINTON'S FRIEND ??
> >
>
>
> How would you like to talk about Tolkien?
LOL At least I was responding to an accusation instead of ducking it.
Besides, making Liberals squirm is more fun.
Een Wilde Ier
> In article <20040109113602...@mb-m05.aol.com>, mh...@aol.com
> (Mhw61) writes:
<snip>
> the loss of Iran to Shiite fundamentalists,
If the Shah - installed by the CIA, and thereafter backed to the hilt by
the US - hadn't been such a brutal dictator, then the Iranian Revolution
probably wouldn't have happened.
> the
> Iranian hostage crisis, the oil crisis, the descent of Afghanistan into what
> would become a generation of brutality. The situation in Iran led directly to
> Saddam Hussein's coup in Iraq
What nonsense. The Ba'ath had already been in power in Iraq for years by
that time.
> and the start of that bloody war.
Which the US and UK had absolutely, POSITIVELY nothing to do with
supporting, even after SH started using chemical weapons.
Öjevind Lång
news:9RBLb.1450$I05....@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
[snip]
> HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE BILL CLINTON'S FRIEND ??
>
> The following is a list of dead people connected with Bill Clinton:
[snip a lot of tripe]
I did think everybody knew by now that all that is a lot of cobblers.
Fantasies from Andrew Mellon Scaife's lie machine.
Öjevind
Gregg Cattanach
news:20040109153904...@mb-m05.aol.com...
> >> 52 people being held hostage and 8 marines getting killed
> >> makes one a Bad President? Boy, have the times changed! ;)
>
> Well, getting 243 marines killed makes you worthy of having your head on a
> dime.
>
>
> Max
Strange allusion, I believe millions died under FDR's watch, and he IS on
the dime.
Hammer
"Öjevind Lång" <dnivej...@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:rV1Mb.1087$zm5...@nntpserver.swip.net...
> "Hammer" <for...@bout.it> skrev i meddelandet
> news:9RBLb.1450$I05....@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> [snip]
>
> > HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE BILL CLINTON'S FRIEND ??
> >
> > The following is a list of dead people connected with Bill Clinton:
>
> [snip a lot of tripe]
Suspicious deaths = tripe? LOL I'm always amazed at how easily Liberals
dismiss anything they don't agree with. Maybe that's why they love Clinton
and his mealymouthing so much. Funny how Bush gets condemned for every
soldier that dies but people were dropping like flies around Clinton and no
one said anything.
> I did think everybody knew by now that all that is a lot of cobblers.
> Fantasies from Andrew Mellon Scaife's lie machine.
Point out the supposed lies & falsehoods and I'll gladly make corrections.
Eric R.
> Well, "accomplishment" usually means a good thing so I think it's correct to
> say JFK had no accomplishments.
You mean you weren't impressed with his lukewarm "support" of civil rights? :-)
-Eric
Eric R.
> There was a second OPEC-managed fuel crisis while Carter was in office.
>
> While it caused severe problems, it did not have the impact of the first
At least it got Detroit to stop making those land barges. Well, until
the SUV came along, anyway.
Give me my gas-guzzler or give me death!
-Eric
Eric R.
> Well, getting 243 marines killed makes you worthy of having your head on a
> dime.
Hey, like a comedian once said, if you can name the capital airport
after a man who started his term in office by firing all the air
traffic controllers...
-Eric
Eric R.
> You are aware that Carter completely botched the
> handling of the Iranian hostage crisis, aren't you?
Yeah, the stupid son of bitch screwed around and got them all killed, didn't he?
Oh no...wait a minute...they all were returned home unharmed!
-Eric
BaronjosefR
> handling of the Iranian hostage crisis, aren't you?
Yeah, the stupid son of bitch screwed around and got them all killed, didn't
he?
Oh no...wait a minute...they all were returned home unharmed!
-Eric
<<<<<<
If Carter had heeded the wrnings, there would have been no hostage situation.
BaronjosefR
> Well, "accomplishment" usually means a good thing so I think it's correct to
> say JFK had no accomplishments.
You mean you weren't impressed with his lukewarm "support" of civil rights? :-)
-Eric<<<<
Most of the accomplishments attributed to Kennedy were actually done by
Eisenhower and Johnson.
Eric R.
Yeah, I heard the same thing said about 9/11.
-Eric
Öjevind Lång
They have been pointed out by others, incuding one of the guys who
originally fabricated them
Öjevind
Hammer
And you can't even come up with a single piece of info or link to verify
these claims?
If you're going to dispute specific information presented as fact, more than
just your say is required. You've already shown yourself to be a person with
little or no character by calling numerous suspicious deaths "tripe," now
you expect me to take your word? Not likely.
Prove it or wear the additional label of liar.
loisillon
> Jimmy Carter: 'Compassion for Mordor'
> Dennis Prager
>
> January 6, 2004
>
> OSLO, Norway (Prager News Service, Jan. 5, 2004) -- In a just-published
> interview with the Norwegian Society for Universal Neutrality (NSUN), former
> U.S. President Jimmy Carter said that the blockbuster trilogy "Lord of the
> Rings" is sending dangerous messages to the world's young people.
>
You should also say that the Evil is overcome not by an army, but by
small hobbits. The hero is neither Aragorn nor Gandalf. The hero is
either Frodo or Sam (rather Sam than Frodo for me).
Nick Soapdish Jr
>From: "Hammer" for...@bout.it
>Date: 1/13/2004 6:14 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <OR%Mb.18040$ei6....@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
I'm sure Oyevind will find it in his heart to prove it when you disprove that
GWB's statements about Clinton doing too much "nation-building" were
hypocritical, when Bush drew up plans for nation-building in Iraq within the
first couple of months of his term. Or perhaps you'd like to explain why
Congressional Republicans killed an anti-profiteering clause in connection with
Iraq reconstruction contracts
(http://www.hillnews.com/news/110503/profiteering.aspx), after Cheney's old
company Halliburton was awarded lucrative contracts due to a non-competitive
bidding schema, and has already started to price-gouge the US for oil. In the
meantime, here's a little refresher course on Scaife's involvement with the
Vince Foster conspiracy theory:
http://www.americanpolitics.com/082097MalDreamScheme.html.
And perhaps, Hammer, you can explain this "mysterious death":
http://www.psnw.com/~bashford/ka-matre.html. If you don't, it sure will go
towards showing "yourself to be a person with
little or no character". Won't it, big guy?
Jim Gordon
"I've got a fever...and the only prescription...is more cowbell!"
-Christopher Walken
"Dude, do you even like girls? Now take off those pants."
-Andy Blitz to Conan O'Brien
BaronjosefR
I'm sure Oyevind will find it in his heart to prove it when you disprove that
GWB's statements about Clinton doing too much "nation-building" were
hypocritical, when Bush drew up plans for nation-building in Iraq within the
first couple of months of his term. <<<<<<<<<<<
As you may have seen on the news, Paul O'Neil is already backing off some of
his claims, saying that they were just going over the Clinton-era regime change
plans. As well, O'Neil's claims to have been at some meetings where he quotes
items in his book are found to be untrue, as it has been proven that he did not
attend some of those meetings. His book has been out just a few days, and he's
already back-stroking like an Olympic swimmer.
Russ
jgord...@aol.comnothere (Nick Soapdish Jr) writes:
>I'm sure Oyevind will find it in his heart to prove it when you disprove that
>GWB's statements about Clinton doing too much "nation-building" were
>hypocritical, when Bush drew up plans for nation-building in Iraq within the
>first couple of months of his term.
Probably because it was US policy since 1998.
Russ
elr...@pop.uky.edu (Eric R.) writes:
Yes, during the Reagan administration.
Hammer
"Nick Soapdish Jr" <jgord...@aol.comnothere> wrote in message
news:20040113201227...@mb-m02.aol.com...
>
> I'm sure Oyevind will find it in his heart to prove it when you disprove
that
> GWB's statements about Clinton doing too much "nation-building" were
> hypocritical, when Bush drew up plans for nation-building in Iraq within
the
> first couple of months of his term. Or perhaps you'd like to explain why
> Congressional Republicans killed an anti-profiteering clause in connection
with
> Iraq reconstruction contracts
> (http://www.hillnews.com/news/110503/profiteering.aspx), after Cheney's
old
> company Halliburton was awarded lucrative contracts due to a
non-competitive
> bidding schema, and has already started to price-gouge the US for oil. In
the
> meantime, here's a little refresher course on Scaife's involvement with
the
> Vince Foster conspiracy theory:
> http://www.americanpolitics.com/082097MalDreamScheme.html.
What does any of this have to do with the discussion? Do you have a focusing
or attention disorder? Whatever Bush did or is doing are completely separate
issues that I'll address if and when I choose. The suspicious deaths
surrounding Clinton for years is the issue at hand. Typical liberal
mealymouthing. Change the subject whenever you are faced with something you
can't handle.
Pay a little more attention next time.
> And perhaps, Hammer, you can explain this "mysterious death":
> http://www.psnw.com/~bashford/ka-matre.html. If you don't, it sure will
go
> towards showing "yourself to be a person with
> little or no character". Won't it, big guy?
LOL Your attempt is so pathetically lame and transparent. Again you start in
on a completely different subject that I won't dignify with a response at
this point.
OK, show how/why if I don't spend my time explaining your "mysterious
death," it'll somehow reflect on my character. Since I haven't even looked
at it, how could you label & judge a future response or lack thereof? He
called almost 4 dozen deaths - "tripe." That type of reaction is telling.
I'm fairly certain he doesn't even have the person's name correct who he
claims is the source of the document, and even if somehow he were to make
the connection, it still wouldn't make those deaths & their links to Clinton
any less true or relevant without evidence. Are you and he so ignorant &
liberal that you'd only entertain accusations from Democrats?
I'd like to at least say "nice try," but all you did was prove you're a
witless worm. Do you feel humiliated? You should, little-guy.
Russ
Compared to Johnson? No.
Russs
Russ
Yeah, by Reagan,
Russ
Russ
(BaronjosefR) writes:
Yeah, he was also the *Treasury* Secretary, which while important, does not sit
in on NSC meetings.
Nick Soapdish Jr
>Date: 1/14/2004 11:47 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20040114124721...@mb-m20.aol.com>
>
>In article <20040113201227...@mb-m02.aol.com>,
>jgord...@aol.comnothere (Nick Soapdish Jr) writes:
>
>>I'm sure Oyevind will find it in his heart to prove it when you disprove
>that
>>GWB's statements about Clinton doing too much "nation-building" were
>>hypocritical, when Bush drew up plans for nation-building in Iraq within the
>>first couple of months of his term.
>
>Probably because it was US policy since 1998.
>
>Russ
Which Bush said was bad policy......and then flip-flopped on.
Nick Soapdish Jr
>Date: 1/14/2004 5:58 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <fIkNb.9101$873.3...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Ha, I love how you have to resort to insults when confronted by your own
hypocrisy. BTW, you have not provided anything to back your own case, except
for some vague accusations.
>Pay a little more attention next time.
>
Perhaps if what you were saying warranted so, but since it's nothing but the
same type of conspiracy theories that conservatives laugh at when applied
against a conservative, you should take your own advice.
>> And perhaps, Hammer, you can explain this "mysterious death":
>> http://www.psnw.com/~bashford/ka-matre.html. If you don't, it sure will
>go
>> towards showing "yourself to be a person with
>> little or no character". Won't it, big guy?
>
>LOL Your attempt is so pathetically lame and transparent. Again you start in
>on a completely different subject that I won't dignify with a response at
>this point.
>
Cop-out. How is it different? This guy has been dubbed "the left wing's Vince
Foster". Yet you call anyone who dares doubt your own paranoid theories
someone without character. Yet, you won't even respond to the same kind of
theory when it's thrown at you!
>OK, show how/why if I don't spend my time explaining your "mysterious
>death," it'll somehow reflect on my >character.
God, you don't even realize your own hypocrisy. I'm just volleying back the
same statement you spewed at Oyevind.
>Since I haven't even looked
>at it, how could you label & judge a future response or lack thereof? He
>called almost 4 dozen deaths - "tripe." That type of reaction is telling.
It would be tripe if it's the same kind of half-baked theories that have been
floating around since '98.
>I'm fairly certain he doesn't even have the person's name correct who he
>claims is the source of the document, and even if somehow he were to make
>the connection, it still wouldn't make those deaths & their links to Clinton
>any less true or relevant without evidence. Are you and he so ignorant &
>liberal that you'd only entertain accusations from Democrats?
>
Ah, the old "label your opponent" trick. I bet you and that trick had some
good times together, eh?
>I'd like to at least say "nice try," but all you did was prove you're a
>witless worm. Do you feel humiliated? You should, little-guy.
Given that you failed to respond to anything I brought up after berating
someone else for not responding, I'd say you're the "witless worm".
Nick Soapdish Jr
>Date: 1/14/2004 7:11 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20040114201151...@mb-m03.aol.com>
>
>>Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter: 'Compassion for Mordor'
>>From: mcr...@aol.comnojunk (Russ)
>>Date: 1/14/2004 11:47 AM Central Standard Time
>>Message-id: <20040114124721...@mb-m20.aol.com>
>>
>>In article <20040113201227...@mb-m02.aol.com>,
>>jgord...@aol.comnothere (Nick Soapdish Jr) writes:
>>
>>>I'm sure Oyevind will find it in his heart to prove it when you disprove
>>that
>>>GWB's statements about Clinton doing too much "nation-building" were
>>>hypocritical, when Bush drew up plans for nation-building in Iraq within
>the
>>>first couple of months of his term.
>>
>>Probably because it was US policy since 1998.
>>
>>Russ
>
>Which Bush said was bad policy......and then flip-flopped on.
By "which", I mean "nation-building" and the such.....
Morgil
"Russ" <mcr...@aol.comnojunk> kirjoitti
viestissä:20040114194602...@mb-m13.aol.com...
> >Yeah, the stupid son of bitch screwed around and got them all killed,
didn't
> >he?
> >
> >Oh no...wait a minute...they all were returned home unharmed!
> >
>
> Yeah, by Reagan,
LOL! Yeah, right.
"After seeing 'Rambo' last night, I know what to do the next time this
happens."
-Reagan. (apparently Rambo traded arms to Vietnam in the version he saw)
Morgil
BaronjosefR
"After seeing 'Rambo' last night, I know what to do the next time this
happens."
-Reagan. (apparently Rambo traded arms to Vietnam in the version he saw)
Morgil<<<<<<
Don't make fun of Rambo. He had a very important mission during the Vietnam
war. Who else was going to teach all those Swiss girls calisthenics? And how
about that cheesy porno? Who else could have starred in that?
Russ
>didn't
>> >he?
>> >
>> >Oh no...wait a minute...they all were returned home unharmed!
>> >
>>
>> Yeah, by Reagan,
>
>LOL! Yeah, right.
Go take a look at a calendar for January 1980.
Russ
Make that January 1981.
Bart
>
> Conservatives have their
> uses, certainly, it's just that *telling the truth* isn't one of them!
Then Bill Clinton was the most conservative president we've ever had! :)