did gandalf die?
Sparky Fox
I have always been a little confused reguarding the battle with gandalf and
the balrog. I keep getting the impression that he died and was re-incarnated
after the fight, but I carn't quite get the whole picture clear in my head,
did he die, or was he just badly hurt.
I remember reading gandalf saying somthing like "My old life burned away"
but I am not sure if he was talking about his frame of mind or his actual
life.
--
Sparky Fox
spa...@sparkys-den.freeserve.co.uk
"Who wants to live forever"?
Conrad B. Dunkerson
news:HltR2.1629$DX2...@news-reader.bt.net...
> I have always been a little confused reguarding the battle with gandalf
and
> the balrog. I keep getting the impression that he died and was
re-incarnated
> after the fight, but I carn't quite get the whole picture clear in my
head,
> did he die, or was he just badly hurt.
Gandalf won the fight, but died of his wounds. His spirit then left his
body and passed out of the circles of the world until being sent back by
Iluvatar (the supreme creator of Middle Earth).
Adam Barnard
> <<<Newbie altert>>>
>
> I have always been a little confused reguarding the battle with gandalf and
> the balrog. I keep getting the impression that he died and was re-incarnated
> after the fight, but I carn't quite get the whole picture clear in my head,
> did he die, or was he just badly hurt.
>
> I remember reading gandalf saying somthing like "My old life burned away"
> but I am not sure if he was talking about his frame of mind or his actual
> life.
He died and then was sent back by Iluvatar.
Nathan E. Banks <Paganini>
news:3716819B...@mail.utexas.edu...
Okay...but how do you know it was Iluvatar enough to say that like it's a
fact? You guys have been telling newbies that with no explanation ever since
I've been here. I followed the whole thread, and no one said anything that
proved it to me one way or the other. No one showed any place where Tolkien
SAID it was Illuvatar...it all seems to be guesswork.
--
Paganini <Nathan E. Banks>
MOOk, the Great High Llama
ICQ 34492883
http://web.madisontelco.com/~paganini
Carl Blondin
Adam Barnard wrote:
> Sparky Fox wrote:
>
> > <<<Newbie altert>>>
> >
> > I have always been a little confused reguarding the battle with gandalf and
> > the balrog. I keep getting the impression that he died and was re-incarnated
> > after the fight, but I carn't quite get the whole picture clear in my head,
> > did he die, or was he just badly hurt.
> >
> > I remember reading gandalf saying somthing like "My old life burned away"
> > but I am not sure if he was talking about his frame of mind or his actual
> > life.
>
> He died and then was sent back by Iluvatar.
As I recall, the previous thread about who sent Gandalf back was never concluded
to the satisfaction of anyone, so how can you say it as a fact that it was
Illuvatar, and not someone else?
Carl
Rubén López
>
>He died and then was sent back by Iluvatar.
>
He! You did it, and there we go again! Enjoy!
R.L.V.
---#---
Adam Barnard
> Adam Barnard <bee...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
> news:3716819B...@mail.utexas.edu...
> > Sparky Fox wrote:
> >
> > > <<<Newbie altert>>>
> > >
> > > I have always been a little confused reguarding the battle with gandalf
> and
> > > the balrog. I keep getting the impression that he died and was
> re-incarnated
> > > after the fight, but I carn't quite get the whole picture clear in my
> head,
> > > did he die, or was he just badly hurt.
> > >
> > > I remember reading gandalf saying somthing like "My old life burned
> away"
> > > but I am not sure if he was talking about his frame of mind or his
> actual
> > > life.
> >
> > He died and then was sent back by Iluvatar.
>
> Okay...but how do you know it was Iluvatar enough to say that like it's a
> fact? You guys have been telling newbies that with no explanation ever since
> I've been here. I followed the whole thread, and no one said anything that
> proved it to me one way or the other. No one showed any place where Tolkien
> SAID it was Illuvatar...it all seems to be guesswork.
You must have missed that part then. Conrad popped on the scene with the letter
that confirms it was Iluvatar that Gandalf went to. Check it out in Dejanews.
Adam Barnard
> Adam Barnard wrote:
>
> > Sparky Fox wrote:
> >
> > > <<<Newbie altert>>>
> > >
> > > I have always been a little confused reguarding the battle with gandalf and
> > > the balrog. I keep getting the impression that he died and was re-incarnated
> > > after the fight, but I carn't quite get the whole picture clear in my head,
> > > did he die, or was he just badly hurt.
> > >
> > > I remember reading gandalf saying somthing like "My old life burned away"
> > > but I am not sure if he was talking about his frame of mind or his actual
> > > life.
> >
> > He died and then was sent back by Iluvatar.
>
> As I recall, the previous thread about who sent Gandalf back was never concluded
> to the satisfaction of anyone, so how can you say it as a fact that it was
> Illuvatar, and not someone else?
Because it was concluded as fact when Conrad produced the letter that said it was.
Grimgard
>fact? You guys have been telling newbies that with no explanation ever since
>I've been here. I followed the whole thread, and no one said anything that
>proved it to me one way or the other. No one showed any place where Tolkien
>SAID it was Illuvatar...it all seems to be guesswork.
This was being debated rather hotly a week or two ago until someone posted a
quote from one of the Letters that put the matter to rest.
Grimgard
Cats know what you're thinking. They don't care, but they know.
Carl Blondin
Adam Barnard wrote:
Haven't seen that one, sorry.
Carl
Conrad B. Dunkerson
> You must have missed that part then. Conrad popped on the scene with the
> letter that confirms it was Iluvatar that Gandalf went to. Check it out
in
> Dejanews.
Six years or so reading this place off and on... and I swear every time I
come back I see the 'Gandalf sent back by whom?', 'Balrogs: Winged or no?',
'Why not have the eagles fly them there?' and 'What IS that Bombadil guy
anyway?' threads. :)
For the record, the letter in question is #156 and the most relevant passage
is;
"He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but
Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its
failure. 'Naked I was sent back - for a brief time, until my task is
done.'"
Letters pg 203
Elsewhere in the same letter this 'Authority' is said to have set the
'Rules' of the world and then later Eru Iluvatar is actually named and the
Valar again called his 'governors'.
softrat
<con...@planet.net> wrote:
>Six years or so reading this place off and on... and I swear every time I
>come back I see the 'Gandalf sent back by whom?', 'Balrogs: Winged or no?',
>'Why not have the eagles fly them there?' and 'What IS that Bombadil guy
>anyway?' threads. :)
In six years you should have learned that these are the _only_
important questions. All else is dross and trivia, of little concern
to Free Peoples everywhere. :)
the softrat
Adam Barnard
It should be on DejaNews. It's both in one of Conrad's posts and my reply to the post.
EvilBill
--
"You will be assimilated." - Bill Gates of Borg
-- EvilBill, alias Devlin G.R. Wright
Check out my web page at
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/7568/index.html
softrat wrote in message <3717b6fe...@NEWS.SUPERNEWS.COM>...
Graham Lockwood
<evil...@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>There are other important questions. Such as "Do Elves get drunk?"
Yes, actually. The Wood Elven guards in the Hobbit get drunk and
Bilbo steals their keys.
||// // Lord Graham of the Locked Wood, || //
|// // ||//
(/ // Royal Detective at Need |//
||// Torog Hunter Extraordinaire (/)
|// and //|
(/ Warden of the Keys //||
|| of the TEUNC Listserver // ||
Astronnomy
O.L.
Nathan E. Banks <Paganini>
> > > He died and then was sent back by Iluvatar.
> >
> > As I recall, the previous thread about who sent Gandalf back was never
concluded
> > to the satisfaction of anyone, so how can you say it as a fact that it
was
> > Illuvatar, and not someone else?
>
> Because it was concluded as fact when Conrad produced the letter that said
it was.
Hum! My server must have missed that one. Repost please?
Adam Barnard
> Adam Barnard <bee...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
> news:3717727D...@mail.utexas.edu...
>
> > > > He died and then was sent back by Iluvatar.
> > >
> > > As I recall, the previous thread about who sent Gandalf back was never
> concluded
> > > to the satisfaction of anyone, so how can you say it as a fact that it
> was
> > > Illuvatar, and not someone else?
> >
> > Because it was concluded as fact when Conrad produced the letter that said
> it was.
>
> Hum! My server must have missed that one. Repost please?
I would if I could. Try checking Dejanews for Conrad Dunkerson and Letter 156.
EvilBill
bit. Perhaps I should rephrase the question as "would the Eldar choose to
get drunk?"?
--
"You will be assimilated." - Bill Gates of Borg
-- EvilBill, alias Devlin G.R. Wright
Check out my web page at
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/7568/index.html
Graham Lockwood wrote in message <3717f67f...@news.fsu.edu>...
Graham Lockwood
<evil...@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>Oh yes, that's true. Haven't read The Hobbit in a while so I forgot that
>bit. Perhaps I should rephrase the question as "would the Eldar choose to
>get drunk?"?
>
>>On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 03:19:13 +0100, "EvilBill"
>><evil...@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>There are other important questions. Such as "Do Elves get drunk?"
>>
>>Yes, actually. The Wood Elven guards in the Hobbit get drunk and
>>Bilbo steals their keys.
Well, no one forced the guards to get drunk. They knew what they were
doing. ;)
Adam Barnard
> gandalf was born again
No he wasn't, he was resurrected. Big difference...
Sirkku Piispanen
<spa...@sparkys-den.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>"Who wants to live forever"?
Me me!
Sirkku Pispanen
Sirkku.P...@sci.fi
"Neither that wallpaper goes, or I do."
-last words of Oscar Wilde-
Adam Barnard
> He died. He sacrificed himself to save his friends. He battled the forces of
> darkness and "seemingly" lost; but, was ultimately victorious as he returned in
> a more glorious form.
>
> When his friends first encountered him after his "ressurection" they initially
> failed to recognize him; yet it was indeed Gandalf.
>
> Remind you of anyone? :-)
You just really like to answer questions I already answered don't you?? :)
LannyL7
darkness and "seemingly" lost; but, was ultimately victorious as he returned in
a more glorious form.
When his friends first encountered him after his "ressurection" they initially
failed to recognize him; yet it was indeed Gandalf.
Remind you of anyone? :-)
Lanny Lathem Lan...@aol.com Check out my website regularly to see cool
Gi JOE stuff and to check out my Batman page. It's case sensitive so....cut
and paste!
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/lannyl7/homepage/LannyHome.html">Lanny's Home
page</A>
http://members.aol.com/lannyl7/homepage/LannyHome.html