In Germany it's Beutlin, not Baggins!
Hardy Hestert
coming in on
http://wwwneu.herr-der-ringe-film.de/hdr/de/news/news-detail_22.htm.
Seems like they stick to the book's german translation. So it's Bilbo
Beutlin, not Bilbo Baggins. Thinking of the blunders in some other
film's dubs this can be considered good news.
m
I don't understand a word of German, but you are right, the voices sound
just like those of Sir Ian MacKellan (Gandalf) and Ian Holm (Bilbo).
Will certain cinema's show an un-dubbed 'original' version of the film
for English speaking Germans to watch???
I am also intrigued to know why the name Beutlin is used instead of
Bilbo. Does the word Bilbo mean something rude in German ???
Are there any other name changes for the German version of the film and
books ???
:-) :-)
In article <3C14CAD6...@t-online.de>, hes...@t-online.de says...
Brett Burleigh
>
>I don't understand a word of German, but you are right, the voices sound
>just like those of Sir Ian MacKellan (Gandalf) and Ian Holm (Bilbo).
>
>Will certain cinema's show an un-dubbed 'original' version of the film
>for English speaking Germans to watch???
>
>I am also intrigued to know why the name Beutlin is used instead of
>Bilbo. Does the word Bilbo mean something rude in German ???
>
It actually seems the Baggins name has been change, according to the
first post. So it will be Frodo Beutlin and the Sackville
(Sackstadt?)-Beutlins as well. Wonder why the name change.
Wingnut
"The nut that holds it all together."
Carl Blondin
I wouldn't wonder to much fi I were you. It doesn't sound too bad, from
a definitly non-german speaking guy, but I know how Ranger has been
translated in french (at least for the burger king merchandise, I
reallly it doesn't represent the movie) Aragorn is now a Garde
Forestier in french. Literal translation: Forest Ranger, a bit like
Yogy Bear. He might have built a tower out in the woods and called it
Minas Fire, the tower to detect forest fires...
Carl
Brett Burleigh
<carl.b...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>I wouldn't wonder to much fi I were you. It doesn't sound too bad, from
>a definitly non-german speaking guy, but I know how Ranger has been
>translated in french (at least for the burger king merchandise, I
>reallly it doesn't represent the movie) Aragorn is now a Garde
>Forestier in french. Literal translation: Forest Ranger, a bit like
>Yogy Bear. He might have built a tower out in the woods and called it
>Minas Fire, the tower to detect forest fires...
>
>Carl
I guess he would get a Royal with Cheese as well.
I extent I care about the translations is just to see how word differ
from language to language. Its usually fun.
bb_...@yahoo.com
> It actually seems the Baggins name has been change, according to the
> first post. So it will be Frodo Beutlin and the Sackville
> (Sackstadt?)-Beutlins as well. Wonder why the name change.
Perhaps because "Baggins" sounds a little awkward in german. "Beutlin" is
way easier to pronounce for a german native-speaker. (BTW: "Bag" translates
to "Beutel" or "Sack")
cu
stew
Kerstin Klemme
when I first heard about the ring it was in english. My sister got the book
from her english-teacher (who years later became her second husband) and I
remember very well when she red the story, how Gandalf and Pippin (or was it
Merry?) were riding on shadowfax through the night to Gondor. I listened and
loved the book at once.
A little time later (now 20 years ago) I red it in german and learned the
german names. But up to today I can愒 agree with translating even names into
german.
I do not own the book in german (there no is a new translation which is or
was dicussed much by the fans of the book and it seems, that the most of
them don愒 like it). But as far as I remember the name Took became Tuk
(thats the way we would write "Took" if we hear it), Strider became
Streicher (a very stupid name - as for me) and much more.
I惴 just now reading it for the third time in english (it helped me very
much to learn english at all!) and I hope that I can watch it in english
here over in germany...
Kerstin (Kris)
(Searching for Lil(l)ian Richter from Hille, Germany- see: www.klemme.org)
Hardy Hestert
When I read a story that takes place in England then I expect to read
english names, but with fantasy stories or fairy tales it's something
different. Why do you refer to Aschenputtel as Cinderella? Middle-Earth
is not in England.
I've got to know the inhabitants of Middle-Earth by their german names.
I think if those names hadn't been translated they would stick out
terribly and disturb the flow of the text. You'd always be reminded that
this is only a translation of an english text. One more thing: Today
german kids learn Englisch at school, not so when the book was first
translated. Those words are not only making no sense, the german
pronouncation of "Baggins" and "Strider" also don't really sound good.
In a german dubbing of the film I'd always prefer Beutlin and Streicher
(very nice name IMHO) to Baggins and Strider. None the less I'll prefer
to see the original version of the film (which isn't a problem in big
cities), not because of the names, but because you always loose
something when half of an actor's performance is being replaced by
someone else. In addition I don't think the film's german version will
have such distinct accents. Those hobbits sound very irish to me. I just
try to imagine hobbits with a bavarian accent... no, that wouldn't be
cool.
Yes, there is a new translation of the books, and as far as I've heard
it has some serious flaws. Seems like they wanted to modernize the
language to make it more appealing for today's kids. I'm glad that I
have a copy of the old one.
Hardy
Sebastian Holzmann
The association that comes into the minds of German native speakers from
"Beutlin" to "Beutel" is very similar to "Baggins" / "bag", especially
if you think of "Bag End". Many of the "English" sounding names have
been altered in the German translation (don't know about the newest
one). There's for example "Beutelsend" (BagiEnd), "Bruchtal"
(Rivendell), "Streicher" (Strider, never understood this until I read
the original), "Sackheim-Beutlin" (Sackville-Baggins), "Auenland" (The
Shire), "Wasserau" (Bywater) etc.
Sebastian
m
> to make it more appealing for today's kids. I'm glad
> that I have a copy of the old one.
Why do they do that Hardy???
Why do people always have to fiddle and mess with something ???
No one would think of altering 'Cyrano de Bergerac', 'Pride and
Predudice', or 'Great Expectations' just to make them more accessible to
the modern audience. So why have they altered The Lord of the Rings???
I'm glad you have kept your old copy of the book. My copy is so old that
all the pages are yellow and falling out (just like my grandma's teeth :-
) )
> > Streicher (a very stupid name - as for me) and much more.
> > I´m just now reading it for the third time in english (it helped me very
Karim Arain
Why? Course it's natural! Baggins MEANS something in English. It's
derived from "bag". The German for bag is "Beutel", so they called him
"Beutlin". Makes perfect sense. They did this with all such names with
an English meaning, but not to those which are not English. So
"Imladris" stays "Imladris" but "Rivendell" (riven dell) becomes
"Bruchtal". Actually, the original German translation of LoTR (not the
crap "retranslation" they started publishing some months ago) is one
of the best German translations of any English work I have ever come
upon. They not only got their names / places / etc. right, they also
managed to convey the mood of the book quite nicely.
Ciao. Karim
--
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you.
Darren S. A. George
>Actually, the original German translation of LoTR (not the
>crap "retranslation" they started publishing some months ago) is one
>of the best German translations of any English work I have ever come
>upon. They not only got their names / places / etc. right, they also
>managed to convey the mood of the book quite nicely.
I have a German edition of The Hobbit, and the think that struck me most (since
my German never got much past the Donald Duck level) was the illustrations that
show Bilbo knee-high to the dwarves. Since Tolkien described hobbits as being
around three feet tall (0.90 m, for those of us who prefer real units), those
are some mighty big dwarves.
Darren S. A. George
The Mad Alchemist
http://www.mad-alchemy.com/heraldry
"Who are those powers-that-be and what is their agenda? How do I get to be one
of them?" - SLC Cook
Kerstin Klemme
>english names, but with fantasy stories or fairy tales it's something
>different. Why do you refer to Aschenputtel as Cinderella? Middle-Earth
>is not in England.
>
>I've got to know the inhabitants of Middle-Earth by their german names.
>I think if those names hadn't been translated they would stick out
>terribly and disturb the flow of the text. You'd always be reminded that
>this is only a translation of an english text. One more thing: Today
>german kids learn Englisch at school, not so when the book was first
>translated. Those words are not only making no sense, the german
>pronouncation of "Baggins" and "Strider" also don't really sound good.
Well, to translate Shadowfax or Strider is shurely on thing - but to change
Baggins and Took??? And why didn´t they change Aragorn to Erregorn???
Why do this translators thing, we are so stupid? And if we are, why aren´t
this shakespearean names like Imogen changed in a german name, you could be
shure of how to say it?
Kris
Karim Arain
<sb1...@uni-duisburg.de> wrote:
[SNIP]
>Well, to translate Shadowfax or Strider is shurely on thing - but to change
>Baggins and Took??? And why didn´t they change Aragorn to Erregorn???
Eh, what's the big difference between translating Strider and
Baggings? Both make perfectly sense to me. Actually, NOT to translate
them would be the mistake IMHO. And Took? Well, they didn't really
"translate" it. They just changed the spelling, so the pronounciation
would stay the same. This also makes sense in the case of LoTR.
According to Tolkien the Red Book of Westmarch wasn't written in
English, he just "translated" it into English. So it's just natural to
translate everything into German he "translated" and leave everything
Tolkien didn't "translate" (like the Elvish names) like it is. Thus
you can maintain the fiction that what you did is just a translation
of the Red Book of Westmarch.
>Why do this translators thing, we are so stupid? And if we are, why aren´t
>this shakespearean names like Imogen changed in a german name, you could be
>shure of how to say it?
Well, Shakespeare didn't have this fiction about just being the
"translator".
Kerstin Klemme
>Eh, what's the big difference between translating Strider and
>Baggings?
Well, "Streicher" (strider) and "Schattenmähne" (shadowfax) are real words
in german - Beutlin and Tuk not. In the book this are surnames! The
translation of the first words must be - I agree to that. But as for me, you
shouldn´t "translate" or change such personal names... At least I wouldn´t
like it, if someone changed my name, because he couldn´t say it in english,
or french or maybe chinese...
>And Took? Well, they didn't really
>"translate" it. They just changed the spelling, so the pronounciation
>would stay the same.
That´s just what I said...
>This also makes sense in the case of LoTR.
>According to Tolkien the Red Book of Westmarch wasn't written in
>English, he just "translated" it into English. So it's just natural to
>translate everything into German he "translated" and leave everything
>Tolkien didn't "translate" (like the Elvish names) like it is. Thus
>you can maintain the fiction that what you did is just a translation
>of the Red Book of Westmarch.
So - because I don´t know the Red Book of Westmarch - did Tolkien
"translate" personal names like "Bilbo Baggins"? And what was his name in
the Red Book?
>Well, Shakespeare didn't have this fiction about just being the
>"translator".
But why aren´t names like Imogen changed into "Imodschin", because that -
perhaps - is the way Imogen would be pronounced in german??? They did just
this with Took and Gamgee.
Kris
Zak McKracken
It is just about what I am talking about all the time (not in this group,.
that is...)
I think that translating or transcribing these names is in Tolkiens personal
interest.
You should try reading the biography (Carpenter) and the appendix, and you
will se that he was very keen on phonetics and phonology.
He invented many languages, and his theories about these fictitious
languages
have been used by the actors, I was told.
Anyway, it was important tohim (imho) that the names should name (!) the
character, e.g. a baggins likes to store things and enjoy his time, he is
content
with what he' s got. Yes, "Beutel" is a German word!
Strideris striding through the woods. "Took" is onomatopetic, maybe,
at least "Gollum" is, and the first has been modified to have the same
pronunciation.
"Gollum" would have been changed, too, to make sure everyone would imagine
a creeping, disgusting and pitiful creature behind this name.
The cultures of Aragorn and Legolas are older than the language of the
Shire,
that is why they don't mean anything in a modern language... but check out
the appendix!
They will give you the translations for these names.
Our names have meanings, too, I do not know about yours, but mine (Ingo)
is from a people called Ingweons and it is their god of friendship.
Peter means "stone", Frank= frank, Eve= the first aso.
There are plenty of books about this!!!
I get really annoyed when i hear Germans complaining that there are not
enough
English words in the language. I just don't get it why we should get rid of
the
German language. DIVERSITY RULES!!
Ingo
"England is nothing but the 51st state" (@: film of the same name, but
applies to UK& FRG)
Karim Arain
<sb1...@uni-duisburg.de> wrote:
[SNIP]
>So - because I don´t know the Red Book of Westmarch - did Tolkien
>"translate" personal names like "Bilbo Baggins"? And what was his name in
>the Red Book?
Oh yes, Tolkien "translated" them. The "original" names (at least some
of them) can be found in the appendices. The appendix is called "On
names and places" I think.