Re: 20 Questions - Clams V
Raven
news:y8-dnUWb2Ym-G8bW...@earthlink.com...
> The item is question is animal.
> You may inquire......
1. Alive?
Hrafn.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
news:4b5c5b4b$0$56776$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
Troels Forchhammer
"Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> spoke these staves:
A manufactured item?
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
Lo! we have gathered, and we have spent, and now the time
of payment draws near.
- Aragorn, /The Lord of the Rings/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)
Clams Canino
>>>> The item is question is animal.
>>>> You may inquire......
>>>
>>> 1. Alive?
>>
>> No
>
> A manufactured item?
No
Troels Forchhammer
>
>>>>> The item is question is animal.
>>>>> You may inquire......
>>>>
>>>> 1. Alive?
>>>
>>> No
>>
>> 2. A manufactured item?
>
> No
3. Is it 'an animal' (an individual, a species, race, group, order,
family or whatever other taxonomic terms may apply) as opposed to a
part of one or more animals?
Incidentally, asking 'Alive?' is a bit imprecise, yet I understand the
intention to be whether we are to guess an animal that is at any time
described by Tolkien as alive (meaning that I would say 'yes' if the
answer was e.g. Smaug or Snowmane). Would you mind, outside the series
of questions, to explain your understanding?
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
We're leaving WISDOM
to starve and thirst
when we cultivate
KNOWLEDGE as such.
The very best comes
to the very worst
WHEN IGNORANTS
KNOW TOO MUCH.
- Piet Hein, /When Ignorants --/
Clams Canino
"Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9D0AD8E4...@130.133.4.11...
> In message <news:AfGdnVX4s4GnFcHW...@earthlink.com>
> "Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> spoke these staves:
>>
>
>>>>>> The item is question is animal.
>>>>>> You may inquire......
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Alive?
>>>>
>>>> No
>>>
>>> 2. A manufactured item?
>>
>> No
>
> 3. Is it 'an animal' (an individual, a species, race, group, order,
> family or whatever other taxonomic terms may apply) as opposed to a
> part of one or more animals?
No
Clams Canino
"Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
> Incidentally, asking 'Alive?' is a bit imprecise, yet I understand the
> intention to be whether we are to guess an animal that is at any time
> described by Tolkien as alive (meaning that I would say 'yes' if the
> answer was e.g. Smaug or Snowmane). Would you mind, outside the series
> of questions, to explain your understanding?
My understanding is that a gem-studded leather tunic made from Smaug-hide is
not alive.
-W
TT Arvind
> > The item is question is animal.
> > You may inquire......
> > 1. Alive?
> > No
> > 2. A manufactured item?
> > No
> > 3. Is it 'an animal' (an individual, a species, race, group, order,
> > family or whatever other taxonomic terms may apply) as opposed to a
> > part of one or more animals?
>
> No
4. Does it occur in Tolkien's general legendarium?
--
Arvind
Clams Canino
"TT Arvind" <ttar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f2668708-4cbf-4d9a...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Yes
Clams Canino
"Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> wrote in message
> My understanding is that a gem-studded leather tunic made from Smaug-hide
> is not alive.
Allow me, please, to name this product for all time: Smaugahyde
-W (takes a bow)
Derek Broughton
Ouch. I think you should take an arrow...
--
derek
TT Arvind
> "Clams Canino" <cc-mar...@earthdink.net> wrote in message
> > My understanding is that a gem-studded leather tunic made from Smaug-hide
> > is not alive.
>
> Allow me, please, to name this product for all time: Smaugahyde
If you used it to make a leather-topped table, would it be called a
Smaugasbord?
--
Arvind
Troels Forchhammer
"Clams Canino" <cc-mar...@earthdink.net> spoke these staves:
>
>>>>>>>>> The item is question is animal.
>>>>>>>>> You may inquire......
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Alive?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. A manufactured item?
>>>>>
>>>>> No
>>>>
>>>> 3. Is it 'an animal' (an individual, a species, race, group,
>>>> order, family or whatever other taxonomic terms may apply)
>>>> as opposed to a part of one or more animals?
>>>
>>> No
>>
>> 4. Does it occur in Tolkien's general legendarium?
>
> Yes
Does it occur in tales of the First Age of the Children of Ilúvatar?
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are
subtle and quick to anger.
- Gildor Inglorion, /The Lord of the Rings/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)
Dirk Thierbach
No, that would definitely be a "Festschmauch". SCNR.
And now that you mention it, is "smorgas" related to /smugan/ in any way?
"Squeeze through a hole" seems strangely appropriate :-)
- Dirk
TT Arvind
wrote:
> And now that you mention it, is "smorgas" related to /smugan/ in any way?
> "Squeeze through a hole" seems strangely appropriate :-)
Smörgås is the Swedish word for an open-faced sandwich. Literally, it
means "buttergoose". According to the Swedish Wikipedia, the
etymology can be traced back to the time when people in cottages
churned their own butter. The small clumps of butter which rose to
the surface of the milk apparently looked somewhat like geese in the
way they floated around. These butter-geese were ideally suited to
being put on bread, and gave the sandwich its name.
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smörgås
--
Arvind
Tamf Moo
i am glaurung at you two.
--
tamf
I see two Gandalfs and church bell. And two half lions chasing
a bull rat each over the lake. (Rorschach tests seen by "Illogic")
Clams Canino
"Troels Forchhammer" <troe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f47474e7-859e->>>>>>>>> The item is question is animal.
>>>>>>>>> You may inquire......
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Alive?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. A manufactured item?
>>>>>
>>>>> No
>>>>
>>>> 3. Is it 'an animal' (an individual, a species, race, group,
>>>> order, family or whatever other taxonomic terms may apply)
>>>> as opposed to a part of one or more animals?
>>>
>>> No
>>
>> 4. Does it occur in Tolkien's general legendarium?
>
> Yes
Does it occur in tales of the First Age of the Children of Il�vatar?
Not bad... you've forced me to the Elvish answer in 5 moves. :)
TT Arvind
> On 25/01/10 10:36, TT Arvind wrote:
>
> > On 25 Jan, 01:51, "Clams Canino" <cc-mar...@earthdink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Allow me, please, to name this product for all time: Smaugahyde
>
> > If you used it to make a leather-topped table, would it be called a
> > Smaugasbord?
>
> i am glaurung at you two.
I think people are going to get quite cross if we let this punning
dragon.
--
Arvind
Noel Q. von Schneiffel
It won't, unless you extend the base... there are not that many named
dragons in Tolkien's writings, and those which remain are rather hard
to make into puns. But if you can find a suitable pun for Ancalagon or
Chrysophylax, you da man :-)
Noel
Öjevind Lång
meddelandet
news:7169fa58-750b-464b...@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
Where punning was concerned, Ancalagon was known as the "Ancillary Dragon"
because he fed lines to Chrysophylax. Due to careless pronunciation, this
name was contracted to "Anc'la'gon". They considered using this name in
"Avatar". Chrysophylax experienced quite a chrysys at the idea and then
suggested the insertion of an extra "a" to keep the name ancalogous with
that of other dragons. Ah can go on.
�jevind
Chris Hoelscher
>> Chrysophylax, you da man :-)
>
when Morgoth slipped in the tub for a warm bath at night after an especially
stressful day, did ge utter those immortal words ....
Ancalagon, take me away .........
TT Arvind
Qu'est-ce que c'est, un dragon avec des ailes? C'est un type spécial,
UN QUE LE GOND attache à l'ombre d'un Balrog.
--
Arvind
TT Arvind
> The item is question is animal.
> You may inquire......
> 1. Alive?
> No
> 2. A manufactured item?
> No
> 3. Is it 'an animal' (an individual, a species, race, group,
> order, family or whatever other taxonomic terms may apply)
> as opposed to a part of one or more animals?
> No
> 4. Does it occur in Tolkien's general legendarium?
> Yes
> 5. Does it occur in tales of the First Age of the Children of Il vatar?
> Not bad... you've forced me to the Elvish answer in 5 moves. :)
6. Does the animal (or one of the animals) of whose parts it is
comprised appear alive in the legendarium?
--
Arvind
Clams Canino
> I think people are going to get quite cross if we let this punning
> dragon.
I was going to comment on the punning completely overtaking my 20 Questions.
Then I remembered who started the problem. :)
-W
Clams Canino
On Jan 25, 4:01 pm, "Clams Canino" <cc-mar...@earthdink.net> wrote:
> The item is question is animal.
> You may inquire......
> 1. Alive?
> No
> 2. A manufactured item?
> No
> 3. Is it 'an animal' (an individual, a species, race, group,
> order, family or whatever other taxonomic terms may apply)
> as opposed to a part of one or more animals?
> No
> 4. Does it occur in Tolkien's general legendarium?
> Yes
> 5. Does it occur in tales of the First Age of the Children of Il vatar?
> The Elvish Answer
6. Does the animal (or one of the animals) of whose parts it is
comprised appear alive in the legendarium?
Yes
Raven
> The item is question is animal.
> You may inquire......
> 1. Alive?
> No
> 2. A manufactured item?
> No
> 3. Is it 'an animal' (an individual, a species, race, group,
> order, family or whatever other taxonomic terms may apply)
> as opposed to a part of one or more animals?
> No
> 4. Does it occur in Tolkien's general legendarium?
> Yes
> 5. Does it occur in tales of the First Age of the Children of Il vatar?
> The Elvish Answer
> 6. Does the animal (or one of the animals) of whose parts it is
> comprised appear alive in the legendarium?
> Yes
7. Are we looking for one body part of one animal?
Raaf.
Steve Morrison
I ought to answer with something Scathing, you Worm.
Bill O'Meally
Ioreth's husband, who owned the Minas Tirith Laundry, when asked how
he got his wash so clean replied, "Ancient Numenorean secret".
Ioreth, overhearing him, quoth, "My husband, some hotshot. Here's his
ancient Numenorean secret: Ancalagon!"
--
Bill
"Wise fool."
Gandalf _The Two Towers_
(The Wise will remove 'se' to reach me. The Foolish will not!)
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
news:4b5e2566$0$56773$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
You asked two questions. The second one seems to be the important part.
Yes, whatever you are looking for, is from one animal.
TT Arvind
> The item is question is animal.
> You may inquire......
> 1. Alive?
> No
> 2. A manufactured item?
> No
> 3. Is it 'an animal' (an individual, a species, race, group,
> order, family or whatever other taxonomic terms may apply)
> as opposed to a part of one or more animals?
> No
> 4. Does it occur in Tolkien's general legendarium?
> Yes
> 5. Does it occur in tales of the First Age of the Children of Il vatar?
> The Elvish Answer
> 6. Does the animal (or one of the animals) of whose parts it is
> comprised appear alive in the legendarium?
> Yes
> 7. Are we looking for one body part of one animal?
> You asked two questions. The second one seems to be the important part.
> Yes, whatever you are looking for, is from one animal.
8. Would the object fit into a breadbox?
--
Arvind
Clams Canino
"TT Arvind" <ttar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:adce32e9-047d-410e...@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
Yes
Raven
> The item is question is animal.
> You may inquire......
> 1. Alive?
> No
> 2. A manufactured item?
> No
> 3. Is it 'an animal' (an individual, a species, race, group,
> order, family or whatever other taxonomic terms may apply)
> as opposed to a part of one or more animals?
> No
> 4. Does it occur in Tolkien's general legendarium?
> Yes
> 5. Does it occur in tales of the First Age of the Children of Il vatar?
> The Elvish Answer
> 6. Does the animal (or one of the animals) of whose parts it is
> comprised appear alive in the legendarium?
> Yes
> 7. Are we looking for one body part of one animal?
> You asked two questions. The second one seems to be the important part.
> Yes, whatever you are looking for, is from one animal.
> 8. Would the object fit into a breadbox?
> Yes
9. Is the item a trophy from a slain animal?
Hr�fn.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
NO
Tamf Moo
is it something from the outside of the body?
(as opposed to inner organs and such gooey stuff)
Clams Canino
Troels Forchhammer
"Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> spoke these staves:
>
|: The item is question is animal.
|: 10. Is it something from the outside of the body?
|: Yes
11. Is it made of horn (including nails, claws etc. -- I'm not
actually sure what the correct biological term for this kind of
growth is)?
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
It is the theory which decides what can be observed.
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Clams Canino
"Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9D0CD75E...@130.133.4.11...
No
Clams Canino
Nothing is to be inferred by the all caps *NO* on #9, it was a typo.
The answer to number nine, is just a plain *No*
-W
Troels Forchhammer
12. Is it a limb (arm, leg, tail etc.) as opposed to e.g. the hide,
eyes, teeth etc?
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom
of thought which they avoid.
- Soren Kierkegaard
Clams Canino
"Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
Troels Forchhammer
|: No
|: 10. Is it something from the outside of the body?
|: Yes
|: 11. Is it made of horn (including nails, claws etc. -- I'm
|: not actually sure what the correct biological term for this
|: kind of growth is)
|: No
|: 12. Is it a limb (arm, leg, tail etc.) as opposed to e.g. the
|: hide, eyes, teeth etc?
|: No
Right, so not the cut-off finger of Sauron ;-)
13. Is this body-part known to have been severed from the rest of the
body?
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you
haven't understood it yet.
- Niels Bohr (1885-1962)
Clams Canino
> body?
Yes
Raven
14. Did one or more hobbits see it?
Holl�.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
Yes
Derek Broughton
> On Jan 25, 7:05 pm, "Noel Q. von Schneiffel"
> <noel.von.schneif...@fats.teunc.org> wrote:
>> On 25 Jan., 19:26, TT Arvind <ttarv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Jan 25, 6:24 pm, Tamf Moo <liddlelel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On 25/01/10 10:36, TT Arvind wrote:
>>
>> > > > If you used it to make a leather-topped table, would it be called a
>> > > > Smaugasbord?
>>
>> > > i am glaurung at you two.
>>
>> > I think people are going to get quite cross if we let this punning
>> > dragon.
>>
>> It won't, unless you extend the base... there are not that many named
>> dragons in Tolkien's writings, and those which remain are rather hard
>> to make into puns. But if you can find a suitable pun for Ancalagon or
>> Chrysophylax, you da man :-)
I always thought Chrysophylax just cried out for a pun...
>
> Qu'est-ce que c'est, un dragon avec des ailes? C'est un type spécial,
> UN QUE LE GOND attache à l'ombre d'un Balrog.
I love a good multilingual pun. I hope it _was_ a good one, because I
understand everything _except_ the pun...
--
derek
Raven
15. Did one or more of the Four Travellers see it?
Kruk.
Clams Canino
"Nautilus" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1jczqcz.8k4qmwfwn1tsN%m...@privacy.net...
> 16. Would its colour remind me of a precious metal?
Yes
Clams Canino
> Gimli?
DING! DING!! We Have a Winner!!
-W
Clams Canino
"Nautilus" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1jczqcz.8k4qmwfwn1tsN%m...@privacy.net...
> Clams Canino <cc-m...@earthdink.net> wrote:
>
>> message
>> news:4b5f7145$0$56782$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>> > "Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> skrev i meddelelsen
>> >> |: 5. Does it occur in tales of the First Age of the Children of
>> >> |: Il�vatar?
>> >> |: The Elvish Answer
While the hair of Galadriel surely existed and was even appraised as
precious in the 1st Age, the nature of hair is such that those 3 particular
hairs are unlikely to have existed in the 1st Age. The only way not to
mislead (one way or another) was the Elvish answer.
>>>>>9. Is the item a trophy from a slain animal?
>>>>>>> NO
>>> Note:
>>>Nothing is to be inferred by the all caps *NO* on #9, it was a typo.
>>>The answer to number nine, is just a plain *No*
That all caps "NO" needed some "spin control".
Obviously, it was a subconscious typo due to my horror of the thought that
someone might actually consider slaying Galadriel for her hair. (the
trophy)
But I didn't want you all to see my horror - and therefore glean an extra
clue.
Thus the backpeddle. :)
>> >> |: 11. Is it made of horn (including nails, claws etc. -- I'm
>> >> |: not actually sure what the correct biological term for this
>> >> |: kind of growth is)
>> >> |: No
This one was close:
Many "horns" are biologically very akin to "hair".
I felt a yes here would be more misleading than helpful, thus the No.
>> >> 16. Would its colour remind me of a precious metal?
At this moment... I was quite sure that Nautilus had it nailed.
The question was risky, as it gave someone a change to jump in.
I would have gone straight for the hair on the longshot.
-W
Clams Canino
"Nautilus" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message news:1jczvr5.4nup31wzu74eN%
> Yes, I had Galadriel's hairs in mind. But I kinda hate the premature
> guessing for a specific object. The question about hair/horn gave me
> some thought too.
> At first I wanted to ask whether hair was excluded in answer 11 too. My
> actual question seemed to me less of a give-away.
> I wonder if Raven was close to it too.
Question 11 indeed gave me great pause.
But since it said "Is it made of horn (including nails, claws etc" - I
took that as to leaning more toward "hard bony protuberance" and not really
thinking toward "hair".
Not all horn is "hair" - most horn is actually a bony matter. Had the word
"hair" preceded the "etc" up above - it would have been a different turn of
the worm.
-W
Clams Canino
"Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> wrote in message
> Question 11 indeed gave me great pause.
I went here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_(anatomy)
before making my decision final.
I had a private laugh that I had to "split hairs" to resolve this answer.
-W
Troels Forchhammer
<laughing>
Right. Looking it up in the Wikipedia, I'd say that my original
intention was to ask if it was made of keratin, which would have
required a yes both if it was Galadriel's hairs or the horn Merry got
from �owyn and �omer -- I did actually also think of hair, even if I
didn't mention it.
Still, I was thinking in completely different directions :-)
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
"What're quantum mechanics?"
"I don't know. People who repair quantums, I suppose."
- /Eric/ (Terry Pratchett)
Clams Canino
"Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
> Right. Looking it up in the Wikipedia, I'd say that my original
> intention was to ask if it was made of keratin, which would have
> required a yes both if it was Galadriel's hairs or the horn Merry got
> from �owyn and �omer -- I did actually also think of hair, even if I
> didn't mention it.
>
> Still, I was thinking in completely different directions :-)
Yes, based on that Wiki article (and sorry the closing parenthases ")"
didn't paste), had you indeed said "keratin" I would have given a yes.
Hopefully that "yes" would have then sent you and your ilk off on "the
different direction" chasing bones, claws, and horns, for a few questions.
:)
It was the non-inclusion of the word "hair" in your question, coupled with
my gut feeling that you were thinking of hard objects like "horns and claws
etc" - that brought it down to an honestly placed "no".
Also, I did not want to resort to the Elvish answer yet again, especially
since it was *you* who forced me there with question #5. And come to think
of it.. it was also *you* and your little "clarification needed" that got us
to "Smaugahyde (tm)" tunics.
Are you a troublemaker? :))
-W
TT Arvind
> TT Arvind wrote:
> I always thought Chrysophylax just cried out for a pun...
Only if you feel lax about the quality of the pun.
> > Qu'est-ce que c'est, un dragon avec des ailes? C'est un type spécial,
> > UN QUE LE GOND attache à l'ombre d'un Balrog.
>
> I love a good multilingual pun. I hope it _was_ a good one, because I
> understand everything _except_ the pun...
'Gond' means 'hinge'. Does that help?
--
Arvind
Tamf Moo
[to Troels]
> Also, I did not want to resort to the Elvish answer yet again, especially
> since it was *you* who forced me there with question #5. And come to think
> of it.. it was also *you* and your little "clarification needed" that got us
> to "Smaugahyde (tm)" tunics.
>
> Are you a troublemaker? :))
can't you tell from his name? as thinly disguised troll name as ever
there was.
Troels Forchhammer
<snip>
> Also, I did not want to resort to the Elvish answer yet again,
> especially since it was *you* who forced me there with question
> #5. And come to think of it.. it was also *you* and your little
> "clarification needed" that got us to "Smaugahyde (tm)" tunics.
>
> Are you a troublemaker? :))
Of course -- what else do expect of someone with my name: 'Tro-' is
important :-)
The more the merrier, I say -- and if I make enough thunder to vitalize
these groups even further, that will not be a bow drawn at random and
I'd be very happy indeed!
("tro" in Danish is faith or trust, and is one legitimate Danish
translation of Elvish 'Estel' -- my name is said to mean something like
"Arrow of Thor")
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded
gold, it would be a merrier world. - Thorin Oakenshield, /The Hobbit/
(J.R.R. Tolkien)
Derek Broughton
> On 27 Jan, 01:24, Derek Broughton <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> TT Arvind wrote:
>
>> I always thought Chrysophylax just cried out for a pun...
>
> Only if you feel lax about the quality of the pun.
Heavens, no. I've never worried about the quality of puns :-)
>
>> > Qu'est-ce que c'est, un dragon avec des ailes? C'est un type spécial,
>> > UN QUE LE GOND attache à l'ombre d'un Balrog.
>>
>> I love a good multilingual pun. I hope it _was_ a good one, because I
>> understand everything _except_ the pun...
>
> 'Gond' means 'hinge'. Does that help?
Thanks. I'd have looked it up if I'd had a free minute all week. I've
spent 3 days in meetings, and miraculously, it was time well spent...
That's never happened to me before :-)
--
derek