Rangers and Half-orcs/goblin men
alana
I have been re-reading LotR, and i was thinking...
From hints etc dropped here and there we know the the "Rangers" who travel
through Bree, and who were watching over the eastern boundaries of the
shire are Dunadan right?
okay. so my question is, do we know of any other rangers outside of
Strider/Aragorn who involve themselves in the fight against Sauron?
Aragorn is the heir of Elendil, and therefore is really king of Gondor,
right? so he tells Boromir that he will return with him to Minas Tirith to
join the fight against the host of mordor. okay, this is great, since
those of Gondor are of the same "race" of men etc. What about the rest of
the rangers? Just wondering....
Also, in an unrelated question...
There are many comments to the fact that fighters of Saruman are not true
orcs. now, i know that there are the uruk-hai, who can fight through the
day because they can easily stand the sun. But there are references to
"half-orcs" or "goblin-men", and that these seem to be the result of the
power of Saruman. how did saruman do this? I know that there are true
men among his fighting force too...so i don't mean those...
Darran
To answer (hopefully) your first question...
In chapter two of _Return of the King_, Aragorn's kinsmen appear to give aid to
Aragorn and the Grey Company. They are the Dunedain "Rangers", those men who once
lived in the kingdom of Arnor. Halbarad led the rangers from the North, along with
Elladan and Elrohir to fight Sauron first-hand.
"'I have thirty with me,' said Halbarad. 'That is all of our kindred that we could
gather in haste;...'"
It may seem surprising that they did not send more men earlier, but the rangers (as
stated often by Aragorn) felt they were doing their part in fighting Sauron by
gaurding the North and West. Theirs was a thankless job of protecting those that
were seemingly oblivious to Mordor.
As for your second question, I'll leave that for others to answer. I have heard many
differing opinions on Uruk-Hai. I will say this though, Sauron and later Saruman
both played around with breedings. With evil minds like theirs, I would not be
surprised to see every possible combination of races.
Darran
Iain Singer
<aesp...@pop.srv.ualberta.ca> writes
>okay Tolkien fans, have i got a question.
>I have been re-reading LotR, and i was thinking...
>From hints etc dropped here and there we know the the "Rangers" who travel
>through Bree, and who were watching over the eastern boundaries of the
>shire are Dunadan right?
>okay. so my question is, do we know of any other rangers outside of
>Strider/Aragorn who involve themselves in the fight against Sauron?
>Aragorn is the heir of Elendil, and therefore is really king of Gondor,
>right? so he tells Boromir that he will return with him to Minas Tirith to
>join the fight against the host of mordor. okay, this is great, since
>those of Gondor are of the same "race" of men etc. What about the rest of
>the rangers? Just wondering....
The Rangers of the North came to the aid of Aragorn at Galadriels
request. The ride of the grey company, Halbarad seems to have been
Aragorns standard bearer who died at Pelennor Fields. They were
Dunedain. The Rangers seem to have been a Dunedain phenomenon, therefore
they appear in both kingdoms, Faramir seems to have led the Rangers of
Ithilien, perhaps every province of the Sea Kingdoms had a company of
Rangers. Anyone know?
>Also, in an unrelated question...
>There are many comments to the fact that fighters of Saruman are not true
>orcs. now, i know that there are the uruk-hai, who can fight through the
>day because they can easily stand the sun. But there are references to
>"half-orcs" or "goblin-men", and that these seem to be the result of the
>power of Saruman. how did saruman do this? I know that there are true
>men among his fighting force too...so i don't mean those...
>
As far as I can see Saruman seems to have crossbred orcs and Dunlendings
as well as having "pure-blood" uruk-hai which were possibly a "present"
from Sauron as he is said to have bred them.
Namarie! Nai hiruvalye Valimar Iain Singer
Nai elye hiruva. Namarie! Ia...@ioscm.demon.co.uk
Michael Martinez
In article <4ln645$7...@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>,
aesp...@pop.srv.ualberta.ca (alana) wrote:
>okay Tolkien fans, have i got a question.
>I have been re-reading LotR, and i was thinking...
>From hints etc dropped here and there we know the the "Rangers" who travel
>through Bree, and who were watching over the eastern boundaries of the
>shire are Dunadan right?
>okay. so my question is, do we know of any other rangers outside of
>Strider/Aragorn who involve themselves in the fight against Sauron?
Aragorn had a guard of Rangers posted near Sarn Ford, and perhaps also near
the Brandywine Bridge. The Rangers at Sarn Ford are attested to in one of the
poems that Tolkien published with "The Adventures Of Tom Bombadil", but I
don't recall which one. They were called "tall watchers" or something like
that. There is a footnote in THE TOLKIEN READER which explains these were
Dunedain.
Other evidence of this guard is presented in the story that Gandalf tells
concerning how he came to deduce that Bilbo's ring was the One Ring. Either
Gandalf or Aragorn mentions that the guard around the Shire was strengthened.
The entry for September 22, 3018, in "The Tale of Years" reads:
"The Black Riders reach Sarn Ford at evening; they drive off
the guard of Rangers. Gandalf overtakes Shadowfax."
A little more is written about this incident in UNFINISHED TALES, in "The
Search For The Ring", where it is said that some of these Dunedain were slain
(perhaps most). It would appear, then, that the guard was fairly strong. The
Rangers apparently questioned Saruman's servants as they travelled into and
out of the Shire, but since Saruman was technically an ally up until the War
of the Ring they did not bar those men from the hobbits' land.
The Rangers of Eriador, led by Aragorn, helped track down the Nazgul after the
confrontation at the Ford of Bruinen. Tolkien does not mention how many
Rangers were involved in that search. They also helped scout out the lands in
preparation for the company's journey south, but again Tolkien does not
mention names or numbers. However, the Sons of Elrond (Elladan and Elrohir)
had, since 2510 or thereabouts, ridden with the Rangers regularly against evil
creatures.
>Aragorn is the heir of Elendil, and therefore is really king of Gondor,
>right?
Technically, Aragorn was not King of Gondor until he was raised to that
position by its people. He was in direct descent the Heir of Elendil, but the
kingship of Gondor had been committed to the Line of Anarion by Isildur.
Aragorn's claim was strengthened by the fact he was descended from Firiel,
daughter of Ondoher, who was succeeded by only two more Kings of Gondor.
Since the claim of Arvedui (Firiel's husband) was rejected by Gondor, Aragorn
was only a claiment to the throne without legitimate authority until the Lords
of Gondor (led by Faramir) accepted his petition. The "formal acceptance"
occurred in the ceremony outside the city gates, but I think Tolkien implies
the real decision was made either immediately or soon after the Battle of the
Pelennor Fields. Most if not of all the Steward's Council were present (those
who had not been killed) in the Last Debate.
>There are many comments to the fact that fighters of Saruman are not true
>orcs. now, i know that there are the uruk-hai, who can fight through the
>day because they can easily stand the sun. But there are references to
>"half-orcs" or "goblin-men", and that these seem to be the result of the
>power of Saruman. how did saruman do this? I know that there are true
>men among his fighting force too...so i don't mean those...
The Uruk-hai were true Orcs, some of whom Saruman had taken into his service.
There appear to have been other Orcs either in Saruman's service or loosely
allied with him (perhaps because they thought he was Sauron's ally or
servant).
The Half-Orcs are thought (by Aragorn and others of the Company of the Ring)
to have been a cross-breed of Orcs and Men, bred by Saruman for his own
purposes. The squint-eyed Southerner in Bree who hid out in Bill Ferny's
house may have been a Half-Orc. Some of the Ruffians were also Half-Orcs.
The breeding would have been accomplishing sexually, as Tolkien implies
nothing else in the texts.
--
++ ++ "Well Samwise: What do you think of the elves now?"
||\ /|| --fbag...@mid.earth.com
|| v ||ichael Martinez (mma...@basis.com)
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