Movie Prediction: Arwen replaces Glorfindel
JSF
Glorfindel with Arwen on the last stretch of road to Rivendell. The
internet movie sites said that Arwen was to be cast as an Elvish warrior.
Glorfindel's part on the road couldn't last more than 5 - 7 minutes
movie-time. I know there was some talk early on, when only two movies had
been confirmed that this may be the case, but I think this will be where she
is introduced.
I don't like the idea either, but It may make sense "from a movie-maker's
point-of-view". Glorfindel is Elrond's chief adviser and leader of the Host
of Rivendell. He'll be at the Council of Elrond. I just hope PJ doesn't
pull a Bashki and have Legolas meet them on the road...
NO FLAMES. This is water-cooler talk. Just thought I'd expand the
discussion a bit...
JTPrsuivnt
being a character in The Fall of Gondolin rather than LotR. Was the name
re-used, and was it given to a major character?
chuck
same.
JTPrsuivnt <jtprs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990908001234...@ng-fx1.aol.com...
RC
JSF <sfa...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:wDiB3.1869$Gk....@news3.atl...
> As much as I hate to admit it, I think Peter Jackson is going to replace
> Glorfindel with Arwen on the last stretch of road to Rivendell. The
> internet movie sites said that Arwen was to be cast as an Elvish warrior.
> Glorfindel's part on the road couldn't last more than 5 - 7 minutes
> movie-time. I know there was some talk early on, when only two movies had
> been confirmed that this may be the case, but I think this will be where
she
> is introduced.
Possible, altough my guess is that Arwen's part will be expanded in
Rivendell, not outside of it, and specially her relation to Aragorn. Don't
forget one of the nine preview sketches on the official site....
http://www.lordoftherings.net/creation/g1-2.html
BTW, I like the idea of the Arwen's part being expanded behind the original
part, I always found her more interesting compared to Eowyn....
RC
hey, I own a site too!
http://www.ringzone.net
Michael Martinez
>As near as I can tell, the name was re-used. I don't think the two were the
>same.
This is an old question. The two Glorfindels are the same character. He
was released from Mandos and allowed to return or sent back to Middle-earth
in the Second Age.
--
\\ // Worlds of Imagination on the Web in...@xenite.org
\\// FREE! Watch Internet TV shows at Xenite.Org!
//\\ [http://www.xenite.org/index.htm]
// \\ENITE.org...............................................
Dan Hartung
cried out:
>It's been a while since I read the trilogy, but I seem to remember 'Glorfindel'
>being a character in The Fall of Gondolin rather than LotR. Was the name
>re-used, and was it given to a major character?
The name was re-used, inadvertently. Tolkien later tried to "retcon"
the usage by making them the same character [in a letter, IIRC],
raising some tricky issues which are discussed here from time to time.
--
Dan Hartung | "I believe we can fly
dhartung (at) wwa (dot) com | on the wings that we create"
http://www.wwa.com/~dhartung/ | -- M. E.
Lake Effect Weblog: http://www.wwa.com/~dhartung/weblog/
Hirgil
> As much as I hate to admit it, I think Peter Jackson is going to replace
> Glorfindel with Arwen on the last stretch of road to Rivendell. The
> internet movie sites said that Arwen was to be cast as an Elvish warrior.
> Glorfindel's part on the road couldn't last more than 5 - 7 minutes
> movie-time. I know there was some talk early on, when only two movies had
> been confirmed that this may be the case, but I think this will be where she
> is introduced
Possible. And this may stun people, but I can live with it. Once you come to
grips with the notion that the entire novel will be not be filmed word-for-word
(and some folks clearly are not there yet), then it becomes an issue of how
best to tell the main tale to a general audience that knows nothing about the
books, and not confuse them (too much).
One good plan is not to introduce characters and then have them disappear,
(Tolkien had the luxury of doing so in his novel, Jackson does not have the
luxury of doing so in a film that will edited down to the second, I'm guessing)
and instead take the opportunity to introduce a character we WILL see later and
make good use of the screen time getting folks used to the idea that Aragorn's
engaged to the lady.
Aside from the departure from the text, if they do this, the biggest trouble I
see with the idea is--will she make this dangerious journey into the wild with
or without her father's permission? Either way, it would require a rethink of
the Arwen charactrer, I guess.
Thoughts?
Hirgil
To reply via email, remove "NOSPAM" from the above address.
----
"Faint to my ears came the gathered rumour of all the lands: the
springing and the dying, the song and the weeping, and the slow
and everlasting groan of overburdened stone."--III, 5, 1
Michael Martinez
>Certain portents have it that jtprs...@aol.com (JTPrsuivnt) once
>cried out:
>>It's been a while since I read the trilogy, but I seem to remember
>>'Glorfindel' being a character in The Fall of Gondolin rather than
>>LotR. Was the name re-used, and was it given to a major character?
>
>The name was re-used, inadvertently. Tolkien later tried to "retcon"
>the usage by making them the same character [in a letter, IIRC],
>raising some tricky issues which are discussed here from time to time.
The name was NOT used inadvertently. It was used deliberately, blatantly,
and intentionally. Glorfindel of Rivendell was ORIGINALLY conceived of as
a descendant of Glorfindel of Gondolin. But Tolkien eventually decided
that the name of the first Glorfindel would have become so revered because
of his great sacrifice that it would not have reasonably been used among
the Elves again (at least not among their noble houses, and then possibly
only among the Eldar). So he decided the two Glorfindels must be the same
person, the latter being Glorfindel after he was released from Mandos.
Conrad Dunkerson
news:7r7ggj$294...@Org.xenite.org...
> The name was NOT used inadvertently. It was used
> deliberately, blatantly, and intentionally. Glorfindel
> of Rivendell was ORIGINALLY conceived of as a descendant
> of Glorfindel of Gondolin.
I would guess that this statement is based on the very
brief note JRRT made while writing LotR;
'Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin'
I don't think this need be indicative of Glorfindel being
at that time considered a descendant of the original
Glorfindel. It could also mean that they were one and the
same person (overlooking that he had died) and he was
telling of his background or birth there - though it was
later apparently decided that he was born before the
founding of Gondolin.
Linda
>Aside from the departure from the text, if they do this, the biggest trouble I
>see with the idea is--will she make this dangerious journey into the wild with
>or without her father's permission? Either way, it would require a rethink of
>the Arwen charactrer, I guess.
>
>Thoughts?
I seriously hope that Arwen does not go. I do and will admit that no movie is
exacly like the book. NOt one has been followed exactly. But I do not agree
to the fact that when they set out of Rivendell, that the Nine Walkers to
combat the Nazgul, will somehow move to ten. However it would be interesting
to see how they deal with Aragon and Awen sneaking out after dark *g*
Linda
Gordon Walker
wrote:
>In article <19990908204433...@ng-fa1.aol.com>, hir...@aol.comNOSPAM (Hirgil) wrote:
>
>>Aside from the departure from the text, if they do this, the biggest trouble I
>>see with the idea is--will she make this dangerious journey into the wild with
>>or without her father's permission? Either way, it would require a rethink of
>>the Arwen charactrer, I guess.
>>
>>Thoughts?
>
>I seriously hope that Arwen does not go. I do and will admit that no movie is
>exacly like the book. NOt one has been followed exactly. But I do not agree
>to the fact that when they set out of Rivendell, that the Nine Walkers to
>combat the Nazgul, will somehow move to ten.
I think the reference is to her sneaking out to the Fords of Bruinen.
As for increasing her appearance in the film I am tending to the
heretical and finding a lot of merit in the idea - contingent on how
it is done, of course. I always felt that Arwen was kind of tacked on
at the end. When she pops up in RotK you're kind of going 'Oh yes,
that was yer woman at the Council wasn't it. Did he fancy her?'.
If you read the appendix it fills it is a bit but I would have liked
at least some more indication of Aragorn's feelings before they left
Rivendell, it adds somthing to his character.
--
Gordon Walker
Rileysan
>> The name was NOT used inadvertently. It was used
>> deliberately, blatantly, and intentionally. Glorfindel
>> of Rivendell was ORIGINALLY conceived of as a descendant
>> of Glorfindel of Gondolin.
>
>I would guess that this statement is based on the very
>brief note JRRT made while writing LotR;
>
>'Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin'
>
>I don't think this need be indicative of Glorfindel being
>at that time considered a descendant of the original
>Glorfindel. It could also mean that they were one and the
>same person (overlooking that he had died) and he was
>telling of his background or birth there - though it was
>later apparently decided that he was born before the
>founding of Gondolin.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that Tolkien did indeed state that they
were the same person and that even though Glorfindel was killed by a balrog,
his reappearance in TLOR was in fact due to "a rare case of reincarnation"
or something to that effect. Does anybody remember the text I am speaking
of? I read it on a Tolkien internet site so I couldn't quote the book. It
sounds like something from "letters" though.
Rileysan
Rileysan
Rileysan wrote in message <7rbpl0$c...@news.or.intel.com>...
Although this is not the exact text I was looking for, it will do fine. This
came from the following website ...
http://www.tolkien.cro.net/elves/glorfind.html
Conclusion: Glorfindel of Rivendell was not a descendant of Glorfindel of
Gondolin but in fact, the same person AND this was not done intentionally
but rather inadvertantly.
Rileysan
Was Glorfindel of Rivendell the same as Glorfindel of Gondolin?
Yes. This has been a matter of great controversy. It was unplanned by
Tolkien, and therefore was something he had to decide after the fact. The
only direct information in any of the books is a comment by Christopher in
The Return of the Shadow (The History of Middle-earth Series VI):
Some notes that were scribbled down at Sidmouth in Devon in the late summer
of 1938 (Tolkien: A Biography, p. 187) on a page of doodles evidently
represent my father's thoughts for the next stages of the story at this
time:
Consultation. Over M[isty] M[ountains]. Down Great River to Mordor. Dark
Tower. Beyond(?) which is the Fiery Hill.
Story of Gil-galad told by Elrond? Who is Trotter? Glorfindel tells of his
ancestry in Gondolin.
... Very notable is "Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin". Years
later, long after the publication of The Lord of the Rings, my father gave a
great deal of thought to the matter of Glorfindel, and at that time he
wrote: "[The use of Glorfindel] in The Lord of the Rings is one of the cases
of the somewhat random use of the names found in the older legends, now
referred to as the The Silmarillion, which escaped reconsideration in the
final published form of The Lord of the Rings." He came to the conclusion
that Glorfindel of Gondolin, who fell to his death in combat with a Balrog
after the sack of the city (II. 192-4, IV.145), and Glorfindel of Rivendell
were one and the same: he was released from Mandos and returned to
Middle-earth in the Second Age.
The Return of the Shadow, 214-215
Michael Martinez
>I seem to recall reading somewhere that Tolkien did indeed state that they
>were the same person and that even though Glorfindel was killed by a balrog,
>his reappearance in TLOR was in fact due to "a rare case of reincarnation"
>or something to that effect. Does anybody remember the text I am speaking
>of? I read it on a Tolkien internet site so I couldn't quote the book. It
>sounds like something from "letters" though.
The decision (made years after Tolkien originally introduced Glorfindel to
THE LORD OF THE RINGS) is documented in THE RETURN OF THE SHADOW (Volume VI
of THE HISTORY OF MIDDLE-EARTH) and THE PEOPLES OF MIDDLE-EARTH (Volume
XII).
Rufus Polson
Linda wrote:
> In article <19990908204433...@ng-fa1.aol.com>, hir...@aol.comNOSPAM (Hirgil) wrote:
>
> >Aside from the departure from the text, if they do this, the biggest trouble I
> >see with the idea is--will she make this dangerious journey into the wild with
> >or without her father's permission? Either way, it would require a rethink of
> >the Arwen charactrer, I guess.
> >
> >Thoughts?
>
> I seriously hope that Arwen does not go. I do and will admit that no movie is
> exacly like the book. NOt one has been followed exactly. But I do not agree
> to the fact that when they set out of Rivendell, that the Nine Walkers to
> combat the Nazgul, will somehow move to ten. However it would be interesting
> to see how they deal with Aragon and Awen sneaking out after dark *g*
>
I believe it was a different dangerous journey that was under discussion; I don't think anyone's
suggested or rumoured that Arwen would join the Fellowship in the movies. They're talking about
her going out to help Aragorn and the hobbits get to Rivendell, instead of Glorfindel.
Rufus
Linda
>I believe it was a different dangerous journey that was under discussion; I
> don't think anyone's
>suggested or rumoured that Arwen would join the Fellowship in the movies.
> They're talking about
>her going out to help Aragorn and the hobbits get to Rivendell, instead of
> Glorfindel.
>
>Rufus
>
>
Thanks alright than, I think that would sound alright, I'ld love to hear the
conversation between Aragon and Arwen, when he hears that his beloved is going
into danger just to lead him home... *g*
Linda