Middle Earth Music - "The Summoning", an absolutely fantastic Tolkien-inspired Band
mango...@my-dejanews.com
There's an Austrian Metal Band called The Summoning who have released 3 albums
and an EP based entirely on Middle-earth and J.R.R Tolkien. You could describe
their music as being atmospheric medieval majestic black metal - it is
absolutely fantastic.
The albums and EP are:
Lugburz (1995)
Minas Morgul (1996) - my favourite - this is an absolute classic
Dol Guldur (1997)
Nightshade Forests EP (1997)
I cannot reccommend them highly enough - these are superb, especially 'Minas
Morgul'. If anybody want's more information on them please feel free to mail
me at fragmeister AT geocities DOT com - removing and replacing the AT and
DOT with @ and .
Cheers,
Dave
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Edmund Horner
mango...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> There's an Austrian Metal Band called The Summoning who have released 3 albums
> and an EP based entirely on Middle-earth and J.R.R Tolkien. You could describe
> their music as being atmospheric medieval majestic black metal - it is
> absolutely fantastic.
Why is it that all the Middle-Earth--inspired music is Metal? Eg:
- Led Zeppelin
- Blind Guardian (previously mentioned in this group)
- The Summoning.
I pray that the theme music for any serious LOTR film will not be of this loud
nature!
(I'm not knocking your music, but I have a hard time reconciling its sound with
the feel of Middle-Earth.)
Ed.
Marc Greis
>> There's an Austrian Metal Band called The Summoning who have released 3 albums
>> and an EP based entirely on Middle-earth and J.R.R Tolkien. You could describe
>> their music as being atmospheric medieval majestic black metal - it is
>> absolutely fantastic.
> Why is it that all the Middle-Earth--inspired music is Metal? Eg:
> - Led Zeppelin
> - Blind Guardian (previously mentioned in this group)
> - The Summoning.
All? Hardly. I guess you've never heard Enya and some of her Tolkien-
inspired songs. I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that Enya's
music comes very close to how some of us imagine elvish music.
> I pray that the theme music for any serious LOTR film will not be of this loud
> nature!
> (I'm not knocking your music, but I have a hard time reconciling its sound with
> the feel of Middle-Earth.)
The same goes for me. Some might think that heavy metal might be
appropriate for battle scenes, though for those scenes I would prefer a
large orchestra. I wish Enya would do the music for scenes in
Lothlorien and Imladris, though I doubt that it's going to happen.
Marc
--
Marc Greis gr...@informatik.uni-bonn.de
??
Marc Greis wrote in message <6kbnm0$d...@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>...
Have u ever heard Enteli, if not buy an album now, I think that it is the
best Tolkien inspired music i扉e ever heard.
Jason Atkinson
On Mon, 25 May 1998 23:27:52 +1200, Edmund Horner
<edm...@geocities.com> wrote:
>mango...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>> There's an Austrian Metal Band called The Summoning who have released 3 albums
>> and an EP based entirely on Middle-earth and J.R.R Tolkien. You could describe
>> their music as being atmospheric medieval majestic black metal - it is
>> absolutely fantastic.
>
>Why is it that all the Middle-Earth--inspired music is Metal? Eg:
>- Led Zeppelin
>- Blind Guardian (previously mentioned in this group)
>- The Summoning.
>
There is a Lord Of the Rings Symphony, but I don't know the composer's
name so have had a rather tough time trying to find it.
Michael Martinez
In article <35797a59...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, Jatk...@NOSPAMix.netcom.com (Jason Atkinson) wrote:
>
>There is a Lord Of the Rings Symphony, but I don't know the composer's
>name so have had a rather tough time trying to find it.
Meiji wrote a LOTR-based symphony. You can find past discussions about it
(and maybe information on what labels provide(d) it) in Dejanews. Just create
a filter for the Tolkien groups going back to Jan 1 95 and search on "Meiji"
and "symphony". That should do the trick.
\\ // Worlds of Imagination on the Web
\\// Mic...@xenite.org
//\\ Martinez <http://www.xenite.org/index.htm>
// \\ENITE.org...............................................
Kjartan Almenning
Michael Martinez <Mic...@xenite.org> skrev i artikkelen
<6kc2d3$2gq$4...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
> Meiji wrote a LOTR-based symphony. You can find past discussions about
it
> (and maybe information on what labels provide(d) it) in Dejanews. Just
create
> a filter for the Tolkien groups going back to Jan 1 95 and search on
"Meiji"
> and "symphony". That should do the trick.
If you type "Meij" instead of "Meiji", you'll have a better chance of
success.... :)
"Johan de Meij" is his full name. I believe he was Dutch.
Kjartan Almenning
Ron Blanford
Edmund Horner wrote:
> Why is it that all the Middle-Earth--inspired music is Metal?
Glass Hammer is progressive rock rather than metal, some guitar but
mostly keyboards and synth. They produced a Tolkien-inspired album
called "Journey of the Dunadan" which I like very much. There's more
about them at their web site, http://www.glasshammer.com.
-- Ron
Michael Martinez
Thanks. I wonder who Meiji is/was? :)
Kjartan Almenning
Ron Blanford <r...@blanford.com> skrev i artikkelen
<356998E7...@blanford.com>...
> Glass Hammer is progressive rock rather than metal, some guitar but
> mostly keyboards and synth. They produced a Tolkien-inspired album
> called "Journey of the Dunadan" which I like very much. There's more
> about them at their web site, http://www.glasshammer.com.
One of the hallmarks of progressive rock is the genre's many references to
literature, and then in particular fantastic such. Great bands like Jethro
Tull, Rush and Led Zeppelin have all had Tolkien-related texts, and many
other bands and artists with them. Need I mention Bo Hansson's "The Lord of
the Rings"? Among newer bands, we find that plenty have chosen their name
from the Tolkien universe, and it isn't unlikely that some of the
texts/music is somewhat related to this, too. Marillion (earlier
Silmarillion), Ilúvatar, Isildur's Bane are a few (of very many) examples.
The Swedes Pär Lindh and Björn Johansson recently did and album in the same
style of Bo Hansson. It's called "Bilbo" and is absolutely recommended.
Prog-ballade-rock.
The list goes on... anyone care to add anything?
Kjartan Almenning
Douglas Burbury
Mic...@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) wrote:
>>> Just create a filter for the Tolkien groups going back to Jan 1 95 and
>>> search on "Meiji" and "symphony". That should do the trick.
>>
>>If you type "Meij" instead of "Meiji", you'll have a better chance of
>>success.... :)
>>
>>"Johan de Meij" is his full name. I believe he was Dutch.
>Thanks. I wonder who Meiji is/was? :)
Ummm ... Emperor of Japan 1868-1912? Presided over the abolition of
the Tokugawa Shogunate during an episode in Japanese history known as
the Meiji Restoration.
Douglas Burbury
E-mail: dbur...@vision.net.au
http://www.vision.net.au/~dburbury/burbury.htm (Burbury family page)
http://www.vision.net.au/~dburbury/plot/gun-plot.htm (Gunpowder Plot page)
Listowner: BURBURY Mailing List Co-owner: GUNPOWDER-PLOT Mailing List
Dan Lewerenz
Marc Greis wrote:
> > Why is it that all the Middle-Earth--inspired music is Metal? Eg:
> > - Led Zeppelin
> > - Blind Guardian (previously mentioned in this group)
> > - The Summoning.
LOTR first gained wide-spread popularity about the same time a lot of the early
rockers (Zeppelin, for example) were in their formative years. That would explain
part of it.
> All? Hardly. I guess you've never heard Enya and some of her Tolkien-
> inspired songs. I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that Enya's
> music comes very close to how some of us imagine elvish music.
There's also "Lord of the Rings" by Styx and "Rivendell" by Rush (at least one other
Rush song, can't think of off the top of my head). Probably lots of others non-metal.
Dan
mango...@my-dejanews.com
In article <356955B8...@geocities.com>,
Edmund Horner <edm...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
> mango...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > There's an Austrian Metal Band called The Summoning who have released 3
albums
> > and an EP based entirely on Middle-earth and J.R.R Tolkien. You could
describe
> > their music as being atmospheric medieval majestic black metal - it is
> > absolutely fantastic.
>
> - Led Zeppelin
> - Blind Guardian (previously mentioned in this group)
> - The Summoning.
>
loud
> nature!
>
> (I'm not knocking your music, but I have a hard time reconciling its sound
with
> the feel of Middle-Earth.)
>
>
>
The Summoning create a feeling of an empty and remote middle-earth only
sparsly populated. If anyone wants more info mail me at (and remove the
obvious anti-spam measures) mooreds AT posu10 DOT gpt DOT co DOT uk.
Nas
Who did the music for closing credits of Ralph Bakshi's amimated version
of LOTR? I think it was also used for one the star trek movies with kirk
in it...., any help appreciated.
Nas
Rémi Samson
Nas wrote in message <356AD3...@sheffield.ac.uk>...
This is a shot in the dark, but I imagine the music is the full Lord of the
Rings theme at the end of the soundtrack. The music is composed and
conducted by Leonard Rosenman. It's available on cd: INTRADA, Product no.
FMT 8003D. It's quite good, IMO.
What's this about the music being used in a Star Trek movie? Which one?
Rémi Samson.
Tony Little
Rémi Samson <Remid...@upc.qc.ca> wrote in article
<iTDa1.254$mm5.7...@wagner.videotron.net>...
>
> Nas wrote in message <356AD3...@sheffield.ac.uk>...
> >Who did the music for closing credits of Ralph Bakshi's amimated version
> >of LOTR?..................
> >
> >Nas
>
> This is a shot in the dark, but I imagine the music is the full Lord of
the
> Rings theme at the end of the soundtrack. The music is composed and
> conducted by Leonard Rosenman. It's available on cd: INTRADA, Product no.
> FMT 8003D. It's quite good, IMO.
>
I'm not sure who wrote the soundtrack, but particularly the closing section
bears an uncanny likeness to one of the Carmina Burana Suite ( NOOOO, not
the Excaliber one, it comes later... )
TL.
>
>
>
Finrod
Tony Little wrote in message <01bd88df$1b52fcf0$db2d78c1@prod-pc-1>...
>I'm not sure who wrote the soundtrack, but particularly the closing section
>bears an uncanny likeness to one of the Carmina Burana Suite ( NOOOO, not
>the Excaliber one, it comes later... )
>
>TL.
>
fit in the battle scenes. The words are a bit out of place though.
Nas
Rémi Samson wrote:
>
> Nas wrote in message <356AD3...@sheffield.ac.uk>...
> >Who did the music for closing credits of Ralph Bakshi's amimated version
> >in it...., any help appreciated.
> >
>
> This is a shot in the dark, but I imagine the music is the full Lord of the
> Rings theme at the end of the soundtrack. The music is composed and
> conducted by Leonard Rosenman. It's available on cd: INTRADA, Product no.
> FMT 8003D. It's quite good, IMO.
>
>
> Rémi Samson.
I am told that it was used in Star Trek IV.
Nas
Martin T. Kutschker
Edmund Horner wrote:
>
> mango...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > There's an Austrian Metal Band called The Summoning who have released 3 albums
> > and an EP based entirely on Middle-earth and J.R.R Tolkien. You could describe
> > their music as being atmospheric medieval majestic black metal - it is
> > absolutely fantastic.
>
> Why is it that all the Middle-Earth--inspired music is Metal? Eg:
> - Led Zeppelin
Hmm, I never imagined Led Zep as a metal band.
Masi
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Martin Thomas Kutschker /\ "Nonetheless I shall grant thy prayer, |
| _____||_ and thou shall go to Eilinel, |
| _________/ | and be set free from my service." |
------------ \________________________________________+
Tenderfoot
Martin T. Kutschker wrote:
>> Why is it that all the Middle-Earth--inspired music is Metal? Eg:
>> - Led Zeppelin
>
>Hmm, I never imagined Led Zep as a metal band.
Not by today's standards perhaps, but I think they invented the original
"heavy metal". Maybe Kjartan knows more about this?
Tenderfoot
The Man in Black
Edmund Horner wrote:
> > Why is it that all the Middle-Earth--inspired music is Metal?
>
> mostly keyboards and synth. They produced a Tolkien-inspired album
> called "Journey of the Dunadan" which I like very much. There's more
> about them at their web site, http://www.glasshammer.com
>
There's a group out of The Royal Danish Academy of Music called the
Tolkien Ensemble that has a CD out called "An Evening in Rivendell."
The various tracks range from folk (Frodo's song at the Prancing Pony)
to New Age (Galadriel's songs at the departure from Lothlorien) to
classical (Aragorn's song of Beren and Luthien) in their influences.
I found it in the classical section of my local Tower Records. Might
be hard to locate, at least for those of us in the U.S., but I'd
recommend it. (But then, I'd recommend any group that actually
respects Tolkien's wishes and makes Galadriel a mezzo-soprano rather
than some wispy ethereal "fairy queen" soprano.)
It's put out by Classico Records, and the number is CLASSCD 175.
If anyone out there is familiar with this CD, I'd love to hear your
opinion(s) on it.
TMiB
Kjartan Almenning
Tenderfoot wrote:
Not much to be added except for what is already mentioned, really - Led Zep
was, as most people should know, *the* pionéer band of what is today called
"70s heavy metal" - a genre that inspired thousands of bands and eventually
evolved into what most people today connect with heavy metal, where bands
like Metallica, Pantera and Mötley Crue belongds, just to mention a few
well-known examples. Later on, in the mid- to late 90s, the "metal" genre
has also gained commercial acceptance with "black metal" where more
musically extreme bands like Summoning belongs.
I'm not sure if this made any of you any wiser, but thanks to Tenderfoot for
the confidence. To bring this back to the original message - far from all
ME-inspired music is metal. As have been mentioned, newage artists like Enya
have a lot of Tolkien in them, as well as prog-ballade rockers like Bo
Hansson and Pär Lindh.
Kjartan Almenning
Kjartan Almenning
Edmund Horner <edm...@geocities.com> wrote in article
<356D6131...@geocities.com>...
> Can I ask in which aspect of Jethro Tull did the take inspiration from
> Tolkien? I've got access to all the JT records, and I'd be interested in
> listening to the relevent parts again.
I mentioned JT based on a second-hand reference which I believe referred to
"Songs from the Wood."
Kjartan Almenning
The Man in Black
Edmund Horner wrote:
>
> Marc Greis wrote:
>
> > All? Hardly. I guess you've never heard Enya and some of her Tolkien-
> > inspired songs. I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that Enya's
> > music comes very close to how some of us imagine elvish music.
> >
>
> > appropriate for battle scenes, though for those scenes I would prefer a
> > large orchestra. I wish Enya would do the music for scenes in
> > Lothlorien and Imladris, though I doubt that it's going to happen.
>
> inspired music takes some inspiration from Enya.
>
> I agree that Enya would be very suitable for the foresty scenes of TLOTR.
>
Your own M-E inspired music? That you have written or simply what you
imagine? I be intrigued!
Canadian singer-songwriter-harpist Loreena McKenitt would be great for
the Lothlorien scenes. Gorgeous voice, and she usually stays away
from Enya's synthesizer-heavy sound, although otherwise the two have
much in common. Actually, in any potential or hypothetical movie
(isn't it nice that we can just speculate and not have to be stuck
with any of our--or other people's--choices?) she might not be too bad
as Galadriel herself.
Enya would then definitely be Arwen...
[The Man in Black trails off into idle speculation...]
Brian Mason
"Rémi Samson" <Remid...@upc.qc.ca> wrote:
The music has a similar feel to the music in the soundtrack for Star
Trek IV, also by Leonard Rosenman. However, I don't know of the music
being used verbatim.
Brian Mason
Edmund Horner
Marc Greis wrote:
> All? Hardly. I guess you've never heard Enya and some of her Tolkien-
> inspired songs. I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that Enya's
> music comes very close to how some of us imagine elvish music.
>
> The same goes for me. Some might think that heavy metal might be
> appropriate for battle scenes, though for those scenes I would prefer a
> large orchestra. I wish Enya would do the music for scenes in
> Lothlorien and Imladris, though I doubt that it's going to happen.
Yes, Enya is a good example of non-metal Tolkiensih music, indeed my own Middle-Earth
inspired music takes some inspiration from Enya.
I agree that Enya would be very suitable for the foresty scenes of TLOTR.
Ed.
Edmund Horner
Dan Lewerenz wrote:
> LOTR first gained wide-spread popularity about the same time a lot of the early
> rockers (Zeppelin, for example) were in their formative years. That would explain
> part of it.
Good objective explanation.
Ed.
Edmund Horner
?? wrote:
> Have u ever heard Enteli, if not buy an album now, I think that it is the
> best Tolkien inspired music i扉e ever heard.
Thanks. Will keep that name in mind, if I can find where to get it.
Ed.
Edmund Horner
Jason Atkinson wrote:
> There is a Lord Of the Rings Symphony, but I don't know the composer's
> name so have had a rather tough time trying to find it.
Interesting. Unfortunately for me, most "classical" music of this century seems to
have lost the dramatic atmosphere of Beethoven et al.
Edmund Horner
Kjartan Almenning wrote:
> One of the hallmarks of progressive rock is the genre's many references to
> literature, and then in particular fantastic such. Great bands like Jethro
> Tull, Rush and Led Zeppelin have all had Tolkien-related texts, and many
> other bands and artists with them. Need I mention Bo Hansson's "The Lord of
> the Rings"? Among newer bands, we find that plenty have chosen their name
> from the Tolkien universe, and it isn't unlikely that some of the
> texts/music is somewhat related to this, too. Marillion (earlier
> Silmarillion), Ilúvatar, Isildur's Bane are a few (of very many) examples.
> The Swedes Pär Lindh and Björn Johansson recently did and album in the same
> style of Bo Hansson. It's called "Bilbo" and is absolutely recommended.
> Prog-ballade-rock.
> The list goes on... anyone care to add anything?
Can I ask in which aspect of Jethro Tull did the take inspiration from
Tolkien? I've got access to all the JT records, and I'd be interested in
listening to the relevent parts again.
Ed.
Edmund Horner
Kjartan Almenning wrote:
> I'm not sure if this made any of you any wiser, but thanks to Tenderfoot for
> the confidence. To bring this back to the original message - far from all
> ME-inspired music is metal. As have been mentioned, newage artists like Enya
> have a lot of Tolkien in them, as well as prog-ballade rockers like Bo
> Hansson and Pär Lindh.
Okay. I hereby admit I phrased my statement a little clumsily. But you must
know what I mean.
Ed.
Edmund Horner
Finrod wrote:
> Being reminded, the style of "the Excalibur one", "O Fortuna", would quite
> fit in the battle scenes. The words are a bit out of place though.
Except, alas! they have been used in innurable battle scenes from other movies.
'Course, that doesn't really matter too much.
Ed.
Jay Random
Brian Mason wrote:
>
> "Rémi Samson" <Remid...@upc.qc.ca> wrote:
>
> >
> >Nas wrote in message <356AD3...@sheffield.ac.uk>...
> >>Who did the music for closing credits of Ralph Bakshi's amimated version
> >>of LOTR? I think it was also used for one the star trek movies with kirk
> >>in it...., any help appreciated.
> >
> >Rings theme at the end of the soundtrack. The music is composed and
> >conducted by Leonard Rosenman. It's available on cd: INTRADA, Product no.
> >FMT 8003D. It's quite good, IMO.
> >
> >What's this about the music being used in a Star Trek movie? Which one?
>
> Trek IV, also by Leonard Rosenman. However, I don't know of the music
> being used verbatim.
Actually, the theme of Star Trek IV is identical to that of Bakshi's
LotR, except that the melody line has been removed & replaced with
something not immediately identifiable. (Btw, I like the scores for
_all_ the other Trek movies better than that one. The replacement melody
was entirely forgettable.)
Quick test: Put on the soundtrack of Star Trek IV (or play the opening
credits of the video), & _hum_ the theme from the Bakshi flick. It fits
perfectly.
--J. Random Hummer, D.G.F.V.
one side of moebius
Edmund Horner wrote:
> Interesting. Unfortunately for me, most "classical" music of this century seems to
> have lost the dramatic atmosphere of Beethoven et al.
<jaw drops> But, but, surely you can't mean that at all?
Just a few random examples of profoundly dramatic recent music, off the
top of my head:
Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky
Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms
Shostakovich: Symphonies 4, 5, 10
Copeland: Fanfare for the Common Man
Rachmaninov: Island of the Dead
Mahler: Any symphony
Wagner: Siegfried's Funeral Music
I'm not sure if the Mahler and Wagner are actually from this century --
actually I don't think they are -- but they're post-Beethoven. Is
Dvorak past the turn of the century at all? He belongs on that list
too. Same for Bartok.
jessie
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
one side of moebius jessie shelton
shelton(AT)princeton.edu http://www.princeton.edu/~shelton
"The first thing to learn is that one cannot learn
everything. The second thing to learn is that this must not
prevent one from trying." --Starandrahi, the Book of Sam
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Burlison
Tenderfoot wrote:
>
> >Hmm, I never imagined Led Zep as a metal band.
>
> Not by today's standards perhaps, but I think they invented the original
> "heavy metal". Maybe Kjartan knows more about this?
>
Led Zep didn't invent heavy metal, thought they were the catalyst for starting it.
Led Zep are generally referred to as a 'heavy blues' band. As for not being metal by
today's standard - there's no maybe about it. Just compare them to bands like Soulfly
and Coal Chamber. This doesn't mean there a bad band though by any means.
Mark
--
================================================================
mark.b...@virgin.net / Ma...@earthcorp.com
* World To World - Quake, Doom, Duke 3D, Anti Spam & more *
http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cox2/World2World/index.html
================================================================
Edmund Horner
one side of moebius wrote:
> <jaw drops> But, but, surely you can't mean that at all?
>
> Just a few random examples of profoundly dramatic recent music, off the
> top of my head:
>
> Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky
> Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms
> Shostakovich: Symphonies 4, 5, 10
> Copeland: Fanfare for the Common Man
> Rachmaninov: Island of the Dead
> Mahler: Any symphony
> Wagner: Siegfried's Funeral Music
True, I actually admire the music of many of the above. What I should have said was in
reference to music post-jazz. Since the diversifying of music, the so-called "classical"
genre has tried to keep up with changes in technology (such as electric keyboards) and in
style (examples which I cannot bring to mind :-) ). Truly, I think the genre has taken a
turn for the worst since before I was born.
Ed.
Jason Atkinson
>> Interesting. Unfortunately for me, most "classical" music of this century seems to
>> have lost the dramatic atmosphere of Beethoven et al.
>
><jaw drops> But, but, surely you can't mean that at all?
He doesn't know whereof he speaks.
>Just a few random examples of profoundly dramatic recent music, off the
>top of my head:
>
>Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky
>Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms
Rite of Spring.
>Shostakovich: Symphonies 4, 5, 10
>Copeland: Fanfare for the Common Man
>Rachmaninov: Island of the Dead
>Mahler: Any symphony
>Wagner: Siegfried's Funeral Music
Khachaturian?
>I'm not sure if the Mahler and Wagner are actually from this century --
>actually I don't think they are -- but they're post-Beethoven. Is
>Dvorak past the turn of the century at all? He belongs on that list
>too. Same for Bartok.
Dvorak, and Wagner (and IIRC Mahler) are 19th century. But they are
all Romantics. Of course, so is Beethoven (after the 5th symphony).
Edmund Horner
Jason Atkinson: being very much of the mind to reply to your message (posted personally to
me), but being also unable to (host unknown, etc), I reply thus to the newsgroup:
Jason Atkinson wrote:
> Frankly, Classical music largely died out when Beethoven died. He
> presided over the transition from the truly classical to the Romantic
> era. if we're going to be pedantic, let's get our pedantry right, no?
> Then after Romantics, we have Impressionism and so forth, right up to
> the neo-Romanticism of John Williams and several other 'movie'
> composers. Currently there are very few composers still writing in
> the classical tradition (none I can recall off the top of my head).
> Changing the style, as you complain about above, makes it no longer
> Classical, by definition. If it's just the newer instruments, would
> you consider it to be 'going downhill' to switch from harpsichord to
> the new-fangled piano?
>
> If what you mean is that music as a whole has gone downhill since you
> were born, then that's proof you're too old. "If the music is too
> loud, you're too old." But take heart--you're in good company. In
> The Republic, by Plato, the little fascist wishes to ban the music of
> the five-stringed lyre as it makes the youth 'unmilitary' and too
> soft. Crotchety old men are nothing new.
I can hardly contain my amusement at the above - meaning no offense! Judgeing from your
response and others, my statements did not acheive their desired aim. I confess I was
trying to rationalise my simple, unfounded and completely human dislike of contemporary
music. You show yourself to be well-versed in the history of music, and I should have
known better than to set myself up against superior adversaries.
I surrender.
Your finishing remark is most, er... complementary. To be compared with crotchety old men
is most unusual for one born in 1978.
Sincerely
Edmund J R Horner
Jay Random
Mark Burlison wrote:
>
> Tenderfoot wrote:
> >
> > >Hmm, I never imagined Led Zep as a metal band.
> >
> > Not by today's standards perhaps, but I think they invented the original
> > "heavy metal". Maybe Kjartan knows more about this?
> >
> > Tenderfoot
>
> Led Zep didn't invent heavy metal, thought they were the catalyst for starting it.
> Led Zep are generally referred to as a 'heavy blues' band. As for not being metal by
> today's standard - there's no maybe about it. Just compare them to bands like Soulfly
> and Coal Chamber. This doesn't mean there a bad band though by any means.
Irrelevant. The term `heavy metal' was invented circa 1970, when the
type of music _now_ called heavy metal did not yet exist. Obviously it
referred to _something_ at the time; & Led Zeppelin were regarded as
leading exemplars of metal -- at that time.
If the word has changed its meaning since then, well, that's another
story.
--J. Random Amateur Philologist, D.G.F.V.
Mike Kew
On Sat, 30 May 1998, Jason Atkinson wrote
>On Fri, 29 May 1998 22:18:49 -0400, one side of moebius
><she...@princetonspamblock.edu> wrote:
>
>>Just a few random examples of profoundly dramatic recent music, off the
>>top of my head:
>>
>>Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky
>>Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms
> Rite of Spring.
>>Shostakovich: Symphonies 4, 5, 10
>>Copeland: Fanfare for the Common Man
>>Rachmaninov: Island of the Dead
>>Mahler: Any symphony
>>Wagner: Siegfried's Funeral Music
>Khachaturian?
Sibelius? Gerschwin? Britten? Vaughn Williams? Elgar? Tippett?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
--
Mike Kew
Nas
I think that Sting's "Fields of Gold" is very apt for the way i imagine
the shire to be. If you listen to the lyrics there is a very
middle-earth-esque feel to them....
Nas
Ognjen Mlinar
Nas wrote:
Heck, I was thinking the same thing about 'Fileds of gold'!!
http:/home.wxs.nl/~ognjenml Vote your favorite character from
TOlkien's work!!!
Nas
Then it must be true! The song does convey a sense of middle-earth! Does
anyone else aprt from me and Ognjen, think so too?
Nas
the Piper
Nas writes:
Me too!
P
Kjartan Almenning
Nas wrote:
> Ognjen Mlinar wrote:
> >
> > Nas wrote:
> >
> > > I think that Sting's "Fields of Gold" is very apt for the way i imagine
> > > the shire to be. If you listen to the lyrics there is a very
> > > middle-earth-esque feel to them....
> >
> > Heck, I was thinking the same thing about 'Fileds of gold'!!
>
> Then it must be true! The song does convey a sense of middle-earth! Does
> anyone else aprt from me and Ognjen, think so too?
I only think that apparently, whatever music you want to resemble Middle-Earth,
will resemble it. Paticularly visible through all the black-metalheads here.
Kjartan Almenning
Cuteboy UK
>True, I actually admire the music of many of the above. What I should have
said was in
>reference to music post-jazz. Since the diversifying of music, the
so-called "classical"
>genre has tried to keep up with changes in technology (such as electric
keyboards) and in
>style (examples which I cannot bring to mind :-) ). Truly, I think the
genre has taken a
>turn for the worst since before I was born.
Post-Jazz. Gershwin, Tippett, Corigliano, Foss, Poulenc, Lambert, Honegger,
Scwantner, Rorem, Britten etc...etc..
If you ever come to England, Ed come and have dinner and I'll spend hours
playing you CD's of modern composers to convince you that they are worth as
much as Early, Baroque and Classical!
Lee (going from D to E flat!)
Cuteboy UK
Ah! Cuteboy finds another subject dear to his heart!
one side of moebius wrote in message
<356F6C89...@princetonspamblock.edu>...
>Edmund Horner wrote:
>
>> Interesting. Unfortunately for me, most "classical" music of this
century seems to
>> have lost the dramatic atmosphere of Beethoven et al.
>
><jaw drops> But, but, surely you can't mean that at all?
>
>Just a few random examples of profoundly dramatic recent music, off the
>top of my head:
>
>Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky
>Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms
>Shostakovich: Symphonies 4, 5, 10
>Copeland: Fanfare for the Common Man
It's Copland, by the way, and 'Fanfare for the Common Man is, IMHO, a load
of rubbish. Like most Copland it is a poor imitation of Stravinski (and
Strauss in this case.)
>Rachmaninov: Island of the Dead
>Mahler: Any symphony
>Wagner: Siegfried's Funeral Music
>
>I'm not sure if the Mahler and Wagner are actually from this century --
>actually I don't think they are -- but they're post-Beethoven. Is
>Dvorak past the turn of the century at all? He belongs on that list
>too. Same for Bartok.
Actually, all three are nineteenth century, although they all lived into the
twentieth century. 'Classical' is of course a precise term in orchestral
music that refers to a period largely defined by the composers Haydn, Mozart
and Beethoven. There were others of course, but these three were the
greatest. So it is incorrect to refer to twentieth century 'classical'
music. It would be better to substitute the word 'orchestral'. (Although
that covers a multitude of sins!)
'Dramatic' is a much abused word, also. It really refers to those events
which show us two sides of existence. In art, it is used to describe a work,
or play, or score etc. that can demonstrate the paradox of existence, the
duality of reality. Unfortunately, most people use this wonderful word to
mean 'exciting' or 'loud'!
You could have added Brahms, Tchaikovski, Tippett, Weber, Poulenc and about
two hundred other composers to the list!
Lee (behaving like a diminished seventh tonight!)
Cuteboy UK
Jason Atkinson wrote in message <3571190a...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
>>I'm not sure if the Mahler and Wagner are actually from this century --
>>actually I don't think they are -- but they're post-Beethoven. Is
>>Dvorak past the turn of the century at all? He belongs on that list
>>too. Same for Bartok.
>
>Dvorak, and Wagner (and IIRC Mahler) are 19th century. But they are
>all Romantics. Of course, so is Beethoven (after the 5th symphony).
What a peculiar thing to write! One of the great debates in musical circles
is 'at what point does the Classical period end, and the Romantic begin?'
For example, Beethoven's Sixth is very 'Romantic', but his Seventh is
'Classical'. (Although they may not have been written in the order in which
they were numbered). Schubert we might well regard as 'Romantic', even
though he died within two(?) years of Beethoven. Brahms, however, who was
born after both of them, wanted to be seen as 'Classical' and wrote in as
'Classical' a format as he could, so you see, it's not as simple as saying
'after Beethoven's fifth....'
Lee (watching the transitional passage on the drum...)
Cuteboy UK
Sorry to piggy back on this message, but my reader hasn't shown me the
original!
Edmund Horner wrote in message <3570527A...@geocities.com>...
>Jason Atkinson wrote:
>
>> Frankly, Classical music largely died out when Beethoven died.
It changed. Very few things in art 'die out'. Art is a complex business!
>>He
>> presided over the transition from the truly classical to the Romantic
>> era. if we're going to be pedantic, let's get our pedantry right, no?
>> Then after Romantics, we have Impressionism and so forth, right up to
>> the neo-Romanticism of John Williams and several other 'movie'
>> composers. Currently there are very few composers still writing in
>> the classical tradition (none I can recall off the top of my head).
There are many.... concertos, symphonies and sonata form live on!!!
>> Changing the style, as you complain about above, makes it no longer
>> Classical, by definition. If it's just the newer instruments, would
>> you consider it to be 'going downhill' to switch from harpsichord to
>> the new-fangled piano?
>>
>> If what you mean is that music as a whole has gone downhill since you
>> were born, then that's proof you're too old. "If the music is too
>> loud, you're too old." But take heart--you're in good company. In
>> The Republic, by Plato, the little fascist wishes to ban the music of
>> the five-stringed lyre as it makes the youth 'unmilitary' and too
>> soft. Crotchety old men are nothing new.
>
>I can hardly contain my amusement at the above - meaning no offense!
Judgeing from your
>response and others, my statements did not acheive their desired aim. I
confess I was
>trying to rationalise my simple, unfounded and completely human dislike of
contemporary
>music. You show yourself to be well-versed in the history of music, and I
should have
>known better than to set myself up against superior adversaries.
As I've mentioned elsewhere....you simply await conversion, Ed!
Lee
Nas
Hey! you calling me a 'black-metalhead'? you couldn't be more wrong..
Nas
William
Jason Atkinson wrote:
> On Fri, 29 May 1998 22:18:49 -0400, one side of moebius
> <she...@princetonspamblock.edu> wrote:
>
> >> Interesting. Unfortunately for me, most "classical" music of this
> century seems to
> >> have lost the dramatic atmosphere of Beethoven et al.
> >
> ><jaw drops> But, but, surely you can't mean that at all?
>
> He doesn't know whereof he speaks.
>
> >Just a few random examples of profoundly dramatic recent music, off
> the
> >top of my head:
> >
> >Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky
> >Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms
> Rite of Spring.
> >Shostakovich: Symphonies 4, 5, 10
> >Copeland: Fanfare for the Common Man
> >Rachmaninov: Island of the Dead
> >Mahler: Any symphony
> >Wagner: Siegfried's Funeral Music
> Khachaturian?
>
> >I'm not sure if the Mahler and Wagner are actually from this century
> --
> >actually I don't think they are -- but they're post-Beethoven. Is
> >Dvorak past the turn of the century at all? He belongs on that list
> >too. Same for Bartok.
>
> Dvorak, and Wagner (and IIRC Mahler) are 19th century. But they are
> all Romantics. Of course, so is Beethoven (after the 5th symphony).
Mahler's active period was from 1892 to his death in 1911. He was
contemporary with R. Strauss, Debussy, and Delius, and would of course
have been considered fully "20th Century" had he not died young.
Personally I consider him "Post-Romantic."
There is however a very good argument for dating the historical and
cultural beginning of the 20th century to the beginning of WWI- and
modernism follows along, the years 1912-1914 giving us "Le Sacre du
Printemps", "The Planets," and the first Cubist paintings.
--
_________________________________________________
William Cloud Hicklin "And he named him craven,
soli...@gamewood.net and lord of slaves"
_________________________________________________
William
Cuteboy UK wrote:
> Ah! Cuteboy finds another subject dear to his heart!
>
> one side of moebius wrote in message
> <356F6C89...@princetonspamblock.edu>...
> >Edmund Horner wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting. Unfortunately for me, most "classical" music of this
> century seems to
> >> have lost the dramatic atmosphere of Beethoven et al.
> >
> ><jaw drops> But, but, surely you can't mean that at all?
> >
> >Just a few random examples of profoundly dramatic recent music, off
> the
> >top of my head:
> >
> >Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky
> >Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms
> >Shostakovich: Symphonies 4, 5, 10
> >Copeland: Fanfare for the Common Man
>
> It's Copland, by the way, and 'Fanfare for the Common Man is, IMHO, a
> load
> of rubbish. Like most Copland it is a poor imitation of Stravinski
> (and
> Strauss in this case.)
That's really awfully harsh. Copland is certainly capable of imitating
Stravinsky and coming off second best: but he is very, very good when he
is writing in his own very American voice. I offer "Appalachian Spring"
and "El Salon Mexico."
The Man in Black
Cuteboy UK wrote:
>
> What a peculiar thing to write! One of the great debates in musical circles
> is 'at what point does the Classical period end, and the Romantic begin?'
> For example, Beethoven's Sixth is very 'Romantic', but his Seventh is
> 'Classical'. (Although they may not have been written in the order in which
> they were numbered). Schubert we might well regard as 'Romantic', even
> though he died within two(?) years of Beethoven.
Yes. Beethoven died in 1827, Schubert the following year.
> Brahms, however, who was
> born after both of them, wanted to be seen as 'Classical' and wrote in as
> 'Classical' a format as he could, so you see, it's not as simple as saying
> 'after Beethoven's fifth....'
>
True, true.
TMiB (who's been trying for over a year to find a recording of "The
Midsummer Marriage"...)
Edmund Horner
Cuteboy UK wrote:
> Actually, all three are nineteenth century, although they all lived into the
> twentieth century. 'Classical' is of course a precise term in orchestral
> music that refers to a period largely defined by the composers Haydn, Mozart
> and Beethoven. There were others of course, but these three were the
> greatest. So it is incorrect to refer to twentieth century 'classical'
> music. It would be better to substitute the word 'orchestral'. (Although
> that covers a multitude of sins!)
>
> 'Dramatic' is a much abused word, also. It really refers to those events
> which show us two sides of existence. In art, it is used to describe a work,
> or play, or score etc. that can demonstrate the paradox of existence, the
> duality of reality. Unfortunately, most people use this wonderful word to
> mean 'exciting' or 'loud'!
>
> You could have added Brahms, Tchaikovski, Tippett, Weber, Poulenc and about
> two hundred other composers to the list!
There are those who believe a word is better defined by how it is used in the
present than how it was used in the past.
Ed.
Cuteboy UK
William wrote in message <357414BA...@gamewood.net>...
>Cuteboy UK wrote:
>> It's Copland, by the way, and 'Fanfare for the Common Man is, IMHO, a
>> load
>> of rubbish. Like most Copland it is a poor imitation of Stravinski
>> (and
>> Strauss in this case.)
>
>That's really awfully harsh. Copland is certainly capable of imitating
>Stravinsky and coming off second best: but he is very, very good when he
>is writing in his own very American voice. I offer "Appalachian Spring"
>and "El Salon Mexico."
Well, I feel harsh about Copland! By the way, I met Lukas Foss at Heathrow
Airport today and gave him a tour of London - impressed? I am!
You're right that Copland is better in an 'American' idiom, but apart from
the 'Lord of the Dance' Appalachian Spring is rather dreary, don't you
think? Copland, IMHO, is really not of the stature of Bernstein, Menotti or
Barber.
Lee
Cuteboy UK
The Man in Black wrote in message <35748F...@pacbell.net>...
>> Brahms, however, who was
>> born after both of them, wanted to be seen as 'Classical' and wrote in as
>> 'Classical' a format as he could, so you see, it's not as simple as
saying
>> 'after Beethoven's fifth....'
>>
>
>True, true.
>
>TMiB (who's been trying for over a year to find a recording of "The
>Midsummer Marriage"...)
Well, if you're in London, come and borrow my copy! I'll look up the
recording company for you if I remember! I have a signed copy of the score,
of which I'm rather proud! All of his sheet music is published by Schott of
course.
The ritual dances are among the most beautiful pieces of music ever to come
out of my country, I think.
Lee
Cuteboy UK
Edmund Horner wrote in message <35754CDD...@geocities.com>...
>There are those who believe a word is better defined by how it is used in
the
>present than how it was used in the past.
Yes there are. It's rather a shame though when it limits the subtlety of
phrasing. If everything that is 'exciting' becomes 'dramatic'. then how do
we describe a 'really' dramatic experience? If 'fantastic' is used to mean
'very good' then how do we describe something that is 'beyond our ken'?
I trust that you see my point.
Lee
Edmund Horner
Cuteboy UK wrote:
Yes, I see your point clearly. But also I ask you to understand mmy
statement. I was in fact protesting the taking of my earlier words to have
been said in a more academic light than they are. I'm not an educated person,
and I don't tend to use words in their more "subtle" tones. Like the great
lay audience, "classical" to me can be described as anything which has been
around a long time, tends to use instruments that have been around a long
time, and tend to conform to certain musical styles.
I hope at last I am clear on this.
Ed.
The Man in Black
Cuteboy UK wrote
> >
> >TMiB (who's been trying for over a year to find a recording of "The
> >Midsummer Marriage"...)
>
> Well, if you're in London, come and borrow my copy! I'll look up the
> recording company for you if I remember! I have a signed copy of the score,
> of which I'm rather proud! All of his sheet music is published by Schott of
> course.
>
> The ritual dances are among the most beautiful pieces of music ever to come
> out of my country, I think.
>
Aahh! [tragic sigh] You are most fortunate among men (at least those
who enjoy the art music of the twentieth century)!
Next time I feel like flying the 12+ hours to Heathrow, I'll let you
know. ;)
TMiB
William
Cuteboy UK wrote:
Here we must agree to disagree, I'm afraid. I think that, nice as they are,
the variations on Lord of the Dance are the least inspired part of A.S.
Barber was a tremendous talent. Bernstein I'm not sure about. A first-rate
composer for Broadway and a very second-rank conductor. As a composer of
"serious" music I feel (feel!) him to be pretentious, trying too hard to be
"Serious, academic, and modern." Ultimately soulless- or rather, what soul
was there in concept has been eroded away by the acid bath of postwar
formalism.
The Man in Black
William wrote:
>
> Cuteboy UK wrote:
>
> > Copland, IMHO, is really not of the stature of Bernstein, Menotti or
> > Barber.
>
> Here we must agree to disagree, I'm afraid. I think that, nice as they are,
> the variations on Lord of the Dance are the least inspired part of A.S.
> Barber was a tremendous talent. Bernstein I'm not sure about. A first-rate
> composer for Broadway and a very second-rank conductor. As a composer of
> "serious" music I feel (feel!) him to be pretentious, trying too hard to be
> "Serious, academic, and modern." Ultimately soulless- or rather, what soul
> was there in concept has been eroded away by the acid bath of postwar
> formalism.
Apart from the part about Bernstein's conducting (which I feel was
brilliant about as often as it was bathetic), I completely agree with
your statements, William. But wow, has this gone off-topic!
TMiB
Cuteboy UK
William wrote in message <357C170B...@gamewood.net>...
>Here we must agree to disagree, I'm afraid. I think that, nice as they
are,
>the variations on Lord of the Dance are the least inspired part of A.S.
Here we disagree! Actually I learnt to loath Copland's music when I was
gigging nd had to play his blues for piano. YUK!
>Barber was a tremendous talent. Bernstein I'm not sure about. A
first-rate
>composer for Broadway and a very second-rank conductor. As a composer of
>"serious" music I feel (feel!) him to be pretentious, trying too hard to be
>"Serious, academic, and modern." Ultimately soulless- or rather, what soul
>was there in concept has been eroded away by the acid bath of postwar
>formalism.
Candide? The clarinet sonata? The Chichester Psalms? I'm not very good on
American music, but these pieces are really rather lovely. Particularly the
clarinet sonata. In case you think that I'm too much of a highbrow, by the
way, my favourite American composer is Gershwin. It is my ambition to have
the time to sit down and learn the piano part of Rhapsody in Blue one day!
What do you think of Lukas Foss' music, by the way?
Lee