March 25 as the New Year

[Steuard Jensen]

We all know that March 25 was established as the day of the New Year
in Gondor, in celebration of the destruction of Sauron. I had heard it
mentioned somewhere (HoMe, maybe?) that this was significant: that
Tolkien intentionally placed the Fellowship's departure from Rivendell
on Dec. 25 (Christmas) and the destruction of the Ring on March 25
(the Annunciation: nine months before Christmas, when an angel told
Mary she would conceive). It was an interesting factoid.

But I've just learned that the latter date (at least) was more
significant than that: throughout the Middle Ages, March 25 was
considered the first day of the new year (at least in the Christian
calendar)! Here's the article where I found that discussed:

http://greathistory.com/happy-new-year.htm

Apparently, governments tended to follow that Church convention, while
the informal folk tradition continued to celebrate the new year as the
pagans did, near the winter solstice, on Jan. 1. Eventually (in 1531?)
the elites finally decided to follow the population's lead in
celebrating the new year on Jan. 1... but the convention still
remained that when writing dates, the year did not increment until
March 25. That discrepancy wasn't officially changed in Britain and
its colonies until 1752.

I find all that fascinating, particularly because it would seem to
explain exactly why Tolkien placed the Gondorian New Year when he did
(and why he opted to have Aragorn declare that as the New Year in the
first place). Pretty nifty, eh?

Steuard "Happy New Year!" Jensen

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:15:58 +0000 (UTC), Steuard Jensen wrote:
> But I've just learned that the latter date (at least) was more
> significant than that: throughout the Middle Ages, March 25 was
> considered the first day of the new year (at least in the Christian
> calendar)!

And in Roman times too:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.tolkien/msg/928f5494114
bbac9

(an article I posted here in 2004)


--
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[Rich Carreiro]

Steuard Jensen <ste...@slimy.com> writes:

> We all know that March 25 was established as the day of the New Year
> in Gondor, in celebration of the destruction of Sauron.

Speaking of 25 March, I ran across this at elvish.org (I
can't vouch for how well/badly the book passage is
translated):

No i Anor bennant hae o enedhór i Thoron dhaer reviant o rhûn;
a e thung i vereth athan harthad in Rodyn o Annûn, canel:

Linno hi le, gwaith o Minas Anor
dân arnad Gorthaur dungen na-vethed na-uir
a Barad-dûr dhannen na-líth.

Linno a eglerio gwaith o Minas Tirith
dân tirith lîn ú-nant pen theled
a Morannon vreithannen
a Aran lîn athrada han
a e 'ellui.

Linno a lalo le, i-chín Annûn
dân Aran lîn allennatha
a e dhorthatha im le
vi eraid bain in chuil lîn

A i-'Aladh tharn natha adwain
a e 'alannatha han bo said daur
a i-Vinas natha galu.

Linno le bain, gwaith!

--
Rich Carreiro rlc-...@rlcarr.com

[Paul S. Person]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:15:58 +0000 (UTC), Steuard Jensen

<ste...@slimy.com> wrote:

>I find all that fascinating, particularly because it would seem to
>explain exactly why Tolkien placed the Gondorian New Year when he did
>(and why he opted to have Aragorn declare that as the New Year in the
>first place). Pretty nifty, eh?

I agree completely.

It occurs to me that, if you go back far enough, all cultures were
agricultural (except those that were hunter-gatherer until modern
times), and, at least in climates that had seasons, March 25, that is,
the beginning of Spring, would be a fine time to celebrate the New
Year -- by sowing the crops, as well as holding whatever religious
ceremonies (the return of Persephone/Proserpine, for example) were
related to sowing crops.
--
"Nature must be explained in
her own terms through
the experience of our senses."

[Weland]

I am sure that I had discussed this here before. In Medieval thought,
or at least some, March 25 is the day of the Fall but also the date of
the Annunciation and Incarnation, Jesus becoming a zygot in Mary and
will be the date of the Second Coming (though less of that last than the
other). So the date of Sauron's fall not only well chosen, but
significant to all kinds of issues we talk about in reference to Tolkien.

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:18:10 -0500, Weland <gi...@poetic.com> wrote:

>I am sure that I had discussed this here before. In Medieval thought,
>or at least some, March 25 is the day of the Fall but also the date of
>the Annunciation and Incarnation, Jesus becoming a zygot in Mary and
>will be the date of the Second Coming (though less of that last than the
>other). So the date of Sauron's fall not only well chosen, but
>significant to all kinds of issues we talk about in reference to Tolkien.

I think you need to check on the difference between a zygote and a blastocyst.

Also, there was the belief that a prophet died on the same day of the year on
which he was born.


--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/LITMAIN.HTM
http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius

[Troels Forchhammer]

In message <news:jkrm2t$83q$1...@dont-email.me>
Weland <gi...@poetic.com> spoke these staves:
>

<snip>

> I am sure that I had discussed this here before. In Medieval
> thought, or at least some, March 25 is the day of the Fall but
> also the date of the Annunciation and Incarnation, Jesus becoming
> a zygot in Mary and will be the date of the Second Coming (though
> less of that last than the other). So the date of Sauron's fall
> not only well chosen, but significant to all kinds of issues we
> talk about in reference to Tolkien.

I seem to recall that it has also been claimed to have been the date
of the Crucifixion (the original Good Friday). And I do recall it
being discussed here -- mostly because I was basing my knowledge on
what eventually turned out to be erroneous information from the
Copenhagen University Almanac (which was something of a
disappointment besides an embarrassment) ;)

The thread that I distinctly recall is this one:
<https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rec.arts.books.tolkien/x0yHe-ZYFFs/discussion>
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/bs3ga5y>

It goes from the question posed in the topic, 'Why the two-month
downtime in Rivendell?' to Shippey's argument that the main part of
the quest (Rivendell to Mount Doom) was to take place between 25th
of December and 25th of March, and from there to various questions
regarding the significance of these two dates (including information
about taxation years in England and other curiosities).

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not
simpler.
- Albert Einstein

[Weland]

On 3/27/2012 3:25 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:18:10 -0500, Weland<gi...@poetic.com> wrote:
>
>> I am sure that I had discussed this here before. In Medieval thought,
>> or at least some, March 25 is the day of the Fall but also the date of
>> the Annunciation and Incarnation, Jesus becoming a zygot in Mary and
>> will be the date of the Second Coming (though less of that last than the
>> other). So the date of Sauron's fall not only well chosen, but
>> significant to all kinds of issues we talk about in reference to Tolkien.
>
> I think you need to check on the difference between a zygote and a blastocyst.
>
> Also, there was the belief that a prophet died on the same day of the year on
> which he was born.
>
>

Except in this case it is the date his mother was impregnated, and not
the date of his birth.

[Weland]

On 3/27/2012 2:25 PM, Troels Forchhammer wrote:
> In message<news:jkrm2t$83q$1...@dont-email.me>
> Weland<gi...@poetic.com> spoke these staves:
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>> I am sure that I had discussed this here before. In Medieval
>> thought, or at least some, March 25 is the day of the Fall but
>> also the date of the Annunciation and Incarnation, Jesus becoming
>> a zygot in Mary and will be the date of the Second Coming (though
>> less of that last than the other). So the date of Sauron's fall
>> not only well chosen, but significant to all kinds of issues we
>> talk about in reference to Tolkien.
>
> I seem to recall that it has also been claimed to have been the date
> of the Crucifixion (the original Good Friday).

Yes, Since Passover is a moveable date, on occasion it will begin on
Friday March 25, believed to be the date on which Christ both entered
and left the world the first time, the second time being the Ascension.