Gollum's mental illness
Orac
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1435?maxtoshow=&HITS
=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=gollum&searchid=1103349387213_18575&st
ored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=329&issue=7480
;-)
--
Orac |"I am not interested in trying to compensate
| for your amazing lack of observation."
|
| http://oracknows.blogspot.com
Bill O'Meally
> ...is discussed in the British Medical Journal online edition:
>
> http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1435?maxtoshow=&HITS
> =10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=gollum&searchid=1103349387213_18575&st
> ored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=329&issue=7480
>
> ;-)
What fun! Thanks for sharing.
I would also include in the differential diagnosis "Unspecified drug or
other dependence". ( ICD-9 304.9, I think).
Vitamin D deficiency would also be a very likely problem with his lack
of sun exposure. But then the only psychological symptoms I can think of
would be restlessness and irritability. It might explain his poor
dentition though. :-)
Then again, certain fish oils (i.e.,cod liver oil) are an excellent
source of vitamin D. So Gollum certainly might be covered there.
Also, I didn't get the part where they said Bilbo stole the Ring when
Gollum was 25. They start out in the beginning stating he was 587 years
old.
--
Bill
"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
AC
Orac <orac...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...is discussed in the British Medical Journal online edition:
>
> http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1435?maxtoshow=&HITS
>=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=gollum&searchid=1103349387213_18575&st
> ored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=329&issue=7480
>
> ;-)
I wasn't aware that they could diagnose madness brought on by magical rings.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightym...@hotmail.com
"Will you kindly explain to me the reasons to debar individuals in certain
branches from rising by merit to commissioned rank? If a cook may rise, or a
steward, why not an electrical artificer or au ordnance rating or a
shipwright? If a telegraphist may rise, why not a painter? Apparently there
is no difficulty about painters rising in Germany!" - Winston Churchill
Michele Fry
media.com>, Orac <orac...@hotmail.com> writes
>...is discussed in the British Medical Journal online edition:
>http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1435?maxtoshow=&HITS
>=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=gollum&searchid=1103349387213_18575&st
>ored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=329&issue=7480
You might have done a Tiny URL for that ! Yikes what a horrible thing to
inflict on anybody !
Try this one instead: http://tinyurl.com/4msbt
Michele
==
Commit random acts of literacy! Read & Release at Bookcrossing:
http://www.bookcrossing.com/friend/Sass-80
==
"The purpose of art is to make the unconscious conscious." Wagner
==
Now reading: Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell - Susanna Clarke
Michele Fry
<OMea...@wise.rr.com> writes
>Also, I didn't get the part where they said Bilbo stole the Ring when
>Gollum was 25. They start out in the beginning stating he was 587 years
>old.
Actually what they say is:
"Smeagol (Gollum) is a single, 587 year old, hobbit-like male of no
fixed abode."
Then they say:
"Eventually Smeagol created Gollum, the outsider, who had a more violent
personality. When Gollum was 25, the ring was stolen by Bilbo Baggins."
So they're saying that Smeagol is 587, but at some point he created his
Gollum alter ego, and when Gollum had been in existence for 25 years,
the ring was taken by Bilbo...
Makes sense to me !
Sampo Smolander
> In article <orac_usa-2498D1...@optonline.svc.highwinds-
> media.com>, Orac <orac...@hotmail.com> writes
> >http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1435?maxtoshow=&HITS
> >=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=gollum&searchid=1103349387213_18575&st
> >ored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=329&issue=7480
> You might have done a Tiny URL for that ! Yikes what a horrible thing to
> inflict on anybody !
> Try this one instead: http://tinyurl.com/4msbt
This is even better:
Bruce Tucker
student at Christ Church College, Oxford:
"Smeagol's/Gollum's usage of the word 'tricksy' is anything but neologistic.
'Tricksy' is an arcane version of the more modern tricky (the earliest known
example of which dates from 1786). Examples of the usage of 'tricksy' are to
be found in The Merchant of Venice, Act III scene 5, and also in The
Tempest, Act V scene 1, in which Prospero addresses Ariel as 'my tricksy
spirit'. I suspect Tolkien, if not Gollum, would have been well aware of the
word's pedigree."
I never knew that - it just goes to show how much there always is to learn
about LotR, even after a dozen or more readings. I wonder if Tolkien's use
of language such as this for Gollum was meant to convey the antiquity of his
dialect.
--
Bruce Tucker
disintegration ta mindspring.com
Troels Forchhammer
AC <mightym...@hotmail.com> enriched us with:
>
> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:55 -0500,
> Orac <orac...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> ...is discussed in the British Medical Journal online edition:
A shorter link:
<http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1435>
> I wasn't aware that they could diagnose madness brought on by magical
> rings.
It's quite incredible, isn't it ;-)
Reading the rapid responses I think we might have to dig out what is
known about the ingredients of both Lembas and see if we can find
anything about hithlain in order to allow them to investigate the
possibility of allergic reactions.
--
Troels Forchhammer
"It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent whatsoever," he
said. "Have you thought of going into teaching?"
- (Terry Pratchett, Mort)
Bill O'Meally
> In article <y7lxd.139073$ye4....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, Bill
> O'Meally <OMea...@wise.rr.com> writes
>
>> Also, I didn't get the part where they said Bilbo stole the Ring when
>> Gollum was 25. They start out in the beginning stating he was 587
>> years old.
>
> Actually what they say is:
>
> "Smeagol (Gollum) is a single, 587 year old, hobbit-like male of no
> fixed abode."
>
> Then they say:
>
> "Eventually Smeagol created Gollum, the outsider, who had a more
> violent personality. When Gollum was 25, the ring was stolen by Bilbo
> Baggins."
>
> So they're saying that Smeagol is 587, but at some point he created
> his Gollum alter ego, and when Gollum had been in existence for 25
> years, the ring was taken by Bilbo...
>
> Makes sense to me !
Not to me. They give LotR as a reference for that information as well,
but it doesn't support that. The book states that the river-folk that
were his people started calling him "Gollum" before his grandmother
banished him from the family for his odd behavior. Clearly both the name
and the alter ego are far older than the authors of the article have
suggested.
Bill O'Meally
I wouldn't doubt that at all.
Bill O'Meally
> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:55 -0500,
> Orac <orac...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> ...is discussed in the British Medical Journal online edition:
>>
>> http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1435?maxtoshow=&HITS
>> =10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=gollum&searchid=1103349387213_18575&st
>> ored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=329&issue=7480
>>
>> ;-)
>
> I wasn't aware that they could diagnose madness brought on by magical
> rings.
The thing is, they entirely overlook that point!!!
gp.skinner
they can't manage to reduce waiting lists in hospitals.
Graeme
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.817 / Virus Database: 555 - Release Date: 15/12/2004
AC
gp.skinner <gp.sk...@nospam.talk21.com> wrote:
> Nice to know they can discuss the mental state of a fictional character yet
> they can't manage to reduce waiting lists in hospitals.
To be fair, the "they" that reduce waiting lists in hospitals are not the
"they" that publish or contribute to this journal.
Taemon
> The
> book states that the river-folk that were his people
> started calling him "Gollum" before his grandmother
> banished him from the family for his odd behavior.
> Clearly both the name and the alter ego are far older
> than the authors of the article have suggested.
When the alter ego appeared, he was named Gollum after the
nickname given by his people. I don't think that's strange.
T.
Orac
AC <mightym...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:55 -0500,
> Orac <orac...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > ...is discussed in the British Medical Journal online edition:
> >
> > http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1435?maxtoshow=&HITS
> >=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=gollum&searchid=1103349387213_18575&st
> > ored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=329&issue=7480
> >
> > ;-)
>
> I wasn't aware that they could diagnose madness brought on by magical rings.
They didn't. The didn't even mention the One Ring. Rather a large
omission, I think...
Orac
Michele Fry <mic...@sassoonery.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <y7lxd.139073$ye4....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, Bill O'Meally
> <OMea...@wise.rr.com> writes
>
> >Also, I didn't get the part where they said Bilbo stole the Ring when
> >Gollum was 25. They start out in the beginning stating he was 587 years
> >old.
>
> Actually what they say is:
>
> "Smeagol (Gollum) is a single, 587 year old, hobbit-like male of no
> fixed abode."
>
> Then they say:
>
> "Eventually Smeagol created Gollum, the outsider, who had a more violent
> personality. When Gollum was 25, the ring was stolen by Bilbo Baggins."
>
> So they're saying that Smeagol is 587, but at some point he created his
> Gollum alter ego, and when Gollum had been in existence for 25 years,
> the ring was taken by Bilbo...
>
> Makes sense to me !
I hadn't even noticed that...
gp.skinner
yet
> > they can't manage to reduce waiting lists in hospitals.
> To be fair, the "they" that reduce waiting lists in hospitals are not the
> "they" that publish or contribute to this journal.
True, but the attitude seems to be the same to the average guy on the
street, that the powers that be in the NHS would rather spend time and money
on less than vital cases whilst people with serious illnesses get to wait in
the wings to die.
AC
Orac <orac...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <slrncsbrts.cs....@aaronclausen.alberni.net>,
> AC <mightym...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:55 -0500,
>> Orac <orac...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > ...is discussed in the British Medical Journal online edition:
>> >
>> > http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1435?maxtoshow=&HITS
>> >=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=gollum&searchid=1103349387213_18575&st
>> > ored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=329&issue=7480
>> >
>> > ;-)
>>
>> I wasn't aware that they could diagnose madness brought on by magical rings.
>
> They didn't. The didn't even mention the One Ring. Rather a large
> omission, I think...
Clearly a problem with their methodology. Whose on the peer-review
committee? Clearly an omission this size ought to see the paper rejected.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightym...@hotmail.com
AC
gp.skinner <gp.sk...@nospam.talk21.com> wrote:
>> > Nice to know they can discuss the mental state of a fictional character
> yet
>> > they can't manage to reduce waiting lists in hospitals.
>> To be fair, the "they" that reduce waiting lists in hospitals are not the
>> "they" that publish or contribute to this journal.
>
> True, but the attitude seems to be the same to the average guy on the
> street, that the powers that be in the NHS would rather spend time and money
> on less than vital cases whilst people with serious illnesses get to wait in
> the wings to die.
Dear God, man! Have you read any of the case history of this Smeagol
character?
--
Aaron Clausen
mightym...@hotmail.com
R. Dan Henry
Enough to know it's a little too late to effect a cure.
The reputable psychologists I've dealt with are unwilling to offer a
diagnosis based on limited, second-hand information in any case. And
here they are dealing with *third-hand* information -- records written
from memory by hobbits with no medical training and then annotated,
adapted, and edited by unknown chroniclers before being translated
without any form of review.
Next they can worry about the dental problems of Stone Age wildlife on
the basis of cave paintings. That would be about as practical and as
medically meaningful.
R. Dan Henry
danh...@inreach.com
Yuk Tang
news:slrncsfkpu.cs....@aaronclausen.alberni.net:
I'd like to know who leaked his medical details so that the hack
Tolkien could write a book about it. I don't feel safe about my own
privacy now that this disgraceful breach of confidence has been made
into a bestseller. What next? Perhaps they'll be making films about
it.
--
Cheers, ymt.
Taemon
> They didn't. The didn't even mention the One Ring. Rather
> a large omission, I think...
They do? They simply call it "the ring", though.
T.
AC
Bill O'Meally
> I'd like to know who leaked his medical details so that the hack
> Tolkien could write a book about it. I don't feel safe about my own
> privacy now that this disgraceful breach of confidence has been made
> into a bestseller. What next? Perhaps they'll be making films about
> it.
Clearly, Tolkien had never heard of HIPAA!
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Yuk Tang wrote:
>
>> I'd like to know who leaked his medical details so that the hack
>> Tolkien could write a book about it. I don't feel safe about my own
>> privacy now that this disgraceful breach of confidence has been made
>> into a bestseller. What next? Perhaps they'll be making films about
>> it.
>
>Clearly, Tolkien had never heard of HIPAA!
I hadn't either, until I saw your message.
--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: haye...@hotmail.com
Web: http://www.geocities.com/hayesstw/stevesig.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/books.htm
vedaal
They didn't disclose all their funding,
and didn't want any mention of the Ring before the new medical rings
are produced (NDA, Patent issues, etc.).
Several major medical device manufacturers have opened up new plants
near active volcanoes, (un-official communication, source has insisted
on anonymity),
and are researching forging of a new, modified, non-addicting Ring,
(sort of a MethadOne Ring to treat obsessive addiction to the One
Ring),
which will also provide anti-aging effects, as well as slimming effects
independent of diet ...
As can be imagined, there is fierce competition to be the first to
develop this
and bring it to market.
Mention of the Ring until then, is completely absent in all medical
research publications,
and manufacturers will probably deny any knowledge of such a project...
vedaal
Bill O'Meally
>> Clearly, Tolkien had never heard of HIPAA!
>
> I hadn't either, until I saw your message.
I figured I have some people googling that. ;-)
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:50:30 GMT, "Bill O'Meally"
>> <OMea...@wise.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>> Clearly, Tolkien had never heard of HIPAA!
>>
>> I hadn't either, until I saw your message.
>
>I figured I have some people googling that. ;-)
Well perhaps you, or those who Googled it, will be good enough to tell us what
it means.
Callmore time ends in a few minutes, so I'm not going to be doing any Googling
for the next 12 hours.
Bill O'Meally
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:44:13 GMT, "Bill O'Meally"
> <OMea...@wise.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:50:30 GMT, "Bill O'Meally"
>>> <OMea...@wise.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Clearly, Tolkien had never heard of HIPAA!
>>>
>>> I hadn't either, until I saw your message.
>>
>> I figured I have some people googling that. ;-)
>
> Well perhaps you, or those who Googled it, will be good enough to
> tell us what it means.
>
> Callmore time ends in a few minutes, so I'm not going to be doing any
> Googling for the next 12 hours.
Sorry, didn't mean to be elusive. :-)
Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. Part of it makes
law the confidentiality of patients' health information. Something that
doctors have been doing as a matter of ethics for centuries.
Christopher Kreuzer
> in <slrncsbrts.cs....@aaronclausen.alberni.net>,
> AC <mightym...@hotmail.com> enriched us with:
>>
>> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:55 -0500,
>> Orac <orac...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> ...is discussed in the British Medical Journal online edition:
>
> A shorter link:
> <http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7480/1435>
>
>> I wasn't aware that they could diagnose madness brought on by magical
>> rings.
>
> It's quite incredible, isn't it ;-)
>
> Reading the rapid responses I think we might have to dig out what is
> known about the ingredients of both Lembas and see if we can find
> anything about hithlain in order to allow them to investigate the
> possibility of allergic reactions.
The BMJ article was fairly thought-provoking when I read it a few weeks
ago. It would be nice to see a complete case-history for Smeagol, and to
include one piece of information that I don't think anyone else
mentioned:
"Already, years before, Gollum had beheld her [Shelob], Smeagol who
pried into all dark holes, and in past days he had bowed and worshipped
her, and the darkness of her evil will walked through all the ways of
his weariness beside him, cutting him off from light and from regret."
I wonder what this would be in modern psychological parlance?
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
TeaLady (Mari C.)
news:nwbCd.2013$GG1....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
> "Already, years before, Gollum had beheld her [Shelob],
> Smeagol who pried into all dark holes, and in past days he
> had bowed and worshipped her, and the darkness of her evil
> will walked through all the ways of his weariness beside
> him, cutting him off from light and from regret."
>
> I wonder what this would be in modern psychological
> parlance?
>
Paranoid and delusional schizophrenia, with a clinical
depression and disassociative disorder thrown in for good
measure.
--
TeaLady (mari)
"I keep telling you, chew with your mouth closed!" Kell the
coach offers advice on keeping that elusive prey caught.
Christopher Kreuzer
> "Christopher Kreuzer" <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
> news:nwbCd.2013$GG1....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
>> "Already, years before, Gollum had beheld her [Shelob],
>> Smeagol who pried into all dark holes, and in past days he
>> had bowed and worshipped her, and the darkness of her evil
>> will walked through all the ways of his weariness beside
>> him, cutting him off from light and from regret."
>>
>> I wonder what this would be in modern psychological
>> parlance?
>
> Paranoid and delusional schizophrenia, with a clinical
> depression and disassociative disorder thrown in for good
> measure.
Delusional? But Shelob is real! :-)
I was thinking maybe hypnosis?
Post-hypnotic suggestion?
the softrat
<spres...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Paranoid and delusional schizophrenia, with a clinical
>depression and disassociative disorder thrown in for good
>measure.
In other words: Just Plain NUTS!
the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:sof...@pobox.com
--
Hige sceal şe heardra, heorte şe cenre,
mod sceal şe mare, şe ure TEUNC lytlağ.
Michelle J. Haines
>
> Paranoid and delusional schizophrenia, with a clinical
> depression and disassociative disorder thrown in for good
> measure.
Dissociative, not disassociative.
Michelle
Fluitst