Question about Smeagol (Gollum)
Grover Monster
Age, and says "About this time Deagol the Stoor finds the One Ring, and is
murdered by Smeagol."
As we know Stoors are a type of Hobbit along with Fallohides and Harfoots.
If Smeagol's companion Deagol was a Hobbit, was Gollum a Hobbit that had
somehow been twisted by the Ring and old age into what he is? The names
Deagol and Smeagol are clearly related and pronounced with the same accent
mark over the e'. Weren't the two of them said to have been related, cousins
maybe, earlier? Does Stoor in the quote have another meaning, or does it
imply Deagol was a Hobbit? Its never said what Gollum was, nor were there
any other Gollums running around in Middle Earth, at least none that were
mentioned.
David
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Starflyr
>Age, and says "About this time Deagol the Stoor finds the One Ring, and is
>murdered by Smeagol."
>As we know Stoors are a type of Hobbit along with Fallohides and Harfoots.
>If Smeagol's companion Deagol was a Hobbit, was Gollum a Hobbit that had
>somehow been twisted by the Ring and old age into what he is? The names
>Deagol and Smeagol are clearly related and pronounced with the same accent
>mark over the e'. Weren't the two of them said to have been related,
cousins
>maybe, earlier? Does Stoor in the quote have another meaning, or does it
>imply Deagol was a Hobbit? Its never said what Gollum was, nor were there
>any other Gollums running around in Middle Earth, at least none that were
>mentioned.
My understanding was that, yes, Gollum/Smeagol was a Hobbit or early
ancestor thereof.
-Starflyr (Micah Loffer) ICQ#20481355
Archaic Proverb #1002 -- When Thou Art In A Firefight:
<http://mydogfluffy.home.ml.org/d2/>
Grimgard
>Age, and says "About this time Deagol the Stoor finds the One Ring, and is
>murdered by Smeagol."
>As we know Stoors are a type of Hobbit along with Fallohides and Harfoots.
>If Smeagol's companion Deagol was a Hobbit, was Gollum a Hobbit that had
>somehow been twisted by the Ring and old age into what he is? The names
>Deagol and Smeagol are clearly related and pronounced with the same accent
>mark over the e'. Weren't the two of them said to have been related, cousins
>maybe, earlier? Does Stoor in the quote have another meaning, or does it
>imply Deagol was a Hobbit? Its never said what Gollum was, nor were there
>any other Gollums running around in Middle Earth, at least none that were
>mentioned.
If you read the second chapter of Fellowship of the Ring (Shadow of the Past),
Gandalf, in telling Frodo the history of the One Ring, states his firm
conviction that Gollum was originally a hobbit, or, at least, a proto-hobbit.
Grimgard
I took a speed reading course and was able to read 'War and Peace' in twenty
minutes. It's about Russia.
Grover Monster
Grimgard wrote >If you read the second chapter of Fellowship of the Ring
(Shadow of the Past),
>Gandalf, in telling Frodo the history of the One Ring, states his firm
>conviction that Gollum was originally a hobbit, or, at least, a
proto-hobbit.
Yep, duh! you're right! Its been awhile since I've read Fellowship, but I
remember the phrase "proto-hobbit" or something like it now, I think. The
subliminal feeling that Gollum was a Hobbit that I had probably came from
reading Gandalf's account, I just couldn't put my finger on it at the time.
Thanks,
David
Michael Martinez
>If you read the second chapter of Fellowship of the Ring (Shadow of the Past),
>Gandalf, in telling Frodo the history of the One Ring, states his firm
>conviction that Gollum was originally a hobbit, or, at least, a proto-hobbit.
Despite the uncertainty in Gandalf's words, Gollum was clearly a hobbit, as
the hobbits were hobbits when they first entered Eriador, though the three
kindreds had not yet fully mingled. That was about 1400 years before
Smeagol the Stoor killed his cousin.
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Phlip
>My understanding was that, yes, Gollum/Smeagol was a Hobbit or early
>ancestor thereof.
Gollum had the Ring for "only" 500 years. That's long for a humanoid
lifetime, but very short for history or evolution.
The hobbits left Greenwood and entered Eriador when the Shadow fell on it
around TA 1000. Smeagol's people had emigrated from the Angle in Eriador
_back_ over the Misty Mountains to the Gladden Fields around 2400.
One can speculate that the agrarian hobbits liked the black-earth lands
around the Baranduin, the Gwaithlo and the Anduin.
-- Phlip at politizen dot com (address munged)
======= http://users.deltanet.com/~tegan/home.html =======
Michael Martinez
<727cam$4...@journal.concentric.net> "Phlip" did proclaim:
>
>The hobbits left Greenwood and entered Eriador when the Shadow fell on it
>around TA 1000. Smeagol's people had emigrated from the Angle in Eriador
>_back_ over the Misty Mountains to the Gladden Fields around 2400.
The Stoors passed back over the mountains around 1300, when Angmar arose and
threatened those lands. Smeagol's people had been isolated from the majority of
hobbits for about 1100 years when Deagol found the One Ring.
>One can speculate that the agrarian hobbits liked the black-earth lands
>around the Baranduin, the Gwaithlo and the Anduin.
Stoors being naturally inclined toward water, they preferred the river lands.
The Fallohides were comfortable in the woods, and the more numerous Harfoots
were at home in the hills and drylands.
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-^--CylnZ----------=E
onthe Third age it tells exactly how and what smeagol got the Ring.
I can't remember if it gave dates or not.
Phlip
>try reading Silmarillion again gang
>onthe Third age it tells exactly how and what smeagol got the Ring.
>I can't remember if it gave dates or not.
When Sauron retook Mordor he sent Nazgul to the Gladden Fields (where both
his and Numenorean records indicated Isildur was ambushed). According to
some of the HOME drafts, they massacred the remaining hobbit settlements
there, but in later texts the Nazgul only found abandoned villages. Any
backup if I'm remembering this right?
Ithalion
made in his throat. So I would have to say no, there were no other
"Gollums" in Middle-Earth. Of course I was not there at that time
(*smile*) so I cannot testify to the existence of other "Gollums".
As to his racial orientation - ditto what everyone else said.
Ithalion
Phlip
>I do believe that he was called "Gollum" because of the gulping sound he
>made in his throat. So I would have to say no, there were no other
>"Gollums" in Middle-Earth. Of course I was not there at that time
>(*smile*) so I cannot testify to the existence of other "Gollums".
Tolkien pronounces Gollum's "horrible swallowing sound" on tape as like
"arrr-UHm". Will the movie be well-researched enough to get this right?
Did Bilbo name Gollum "Gollum"? Who used the name first?
Gollum did not call himself anything when they met; one could say Bilbo
restored to Gollum a sense of identity by taking his "Precious".
Ithalion
go to the horrible swallowing sound!!!
LOL
Ithalion
rcs
It's not so hard to make that sound : smoke Marlboro 100's for five
years and run about 20 kilometers.
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Homepage : http://www.ruca.ua.ac.be/~s975034
JonnoPeltz
>Did Bilbo name Gollum "Gollum"? Who used the name first?
"He took to thieving, and going about muttering to himself, and gurgling in his
throat. So they called him Gollum, and cursed him, and told him to go far
away; and his grandmother, desiring peace, expelled him from the family and
turned him out of her hole."
-The Shadow of the Past
>Gollum did not call himself anything when they met; one could say Bilbo
>restored to Gollum a sense of identity by taking his "Precious".
hmmm...yeah, how did anyone know his name? I don't recall him introducing
himself. When is the first time someone actually refers to Gollum by name?
jonno