Crimson Tide script by Mr. Tarantino
Adeel Ahmad
I was just reading in the local paper this morning about Crimson
Tide and learned that Quentin Tarantino did a complete rewrite of the
movie's script! Everyone involved with the film agrees that it should be
QT's name up there in bold letters but the Screenwriter's Guild apparently
does not think so. Anyway, it shocked the hell outta me... I just might go
see it now.
--Adeel.
Mike D'Angelo
I feel fairly confident that you misinterpreted your source. My understanding
is that Tarantino did what's known in the biz as a "polish" on the CRIMSON TIDE
script; he was specifically brought in to punch up some of the dialogue and pop
culture references (there's apparently a discussion of the Silver Surfer that
is recognizably in his style). He did *not*, according to the reports I've
read, do what's called a "page-one rewrite" of the entire script, or anything
even approaching that kind of revision. By WGA rules, in order to get screen
credit for a rewrite, you have to rewrite more than half of the script (what
constitutes "more than half" is frequently the subject of arbitration). I
don't think Tarantino contributed more than 5-10% of what you'll see, and I
wouldn't advise seeing the film solely because of his involvement (especially
as it was directed by Tony Scott, in my opinion the least talented director in
all of Hollywood...but I digress. Incidentally, I believe Scott agreed to take
on the project only if Tarantino was hired to do this polish; Scott, of course,
directed the Tarantino-penned TRUE ROMANCE, and in my opinion fucked it up
beyond repair...but I digress again).
Mike D'Angelo
Tisch School of the Arts, NYU
********************************************************************************
"...Oliver Stone is worse than radium poisoning..." -- Walter Connolly in
NOTHING SACRED, 1937 (I'm not making this up; see for yourself)
********************************************************************************
Arnold Paul Niekamp
some of them after him. He put in stuff about Hackman's dog and old sub
movies.
Robert Towne (Days of Thunder), and Steven Zallian (Schindler's List) were two
of the other rewriters.
As for Tony Scott, some of his stuff is annoying, but I like what he did with
"True Romance" (although I would have prefered Quentin). I'll take a Scott
directed Tarantino movie over an Oliver Stone directed Tarantino movie anyday.
-Arnie
George W Harris
>>
>wouldn't advise seeing the film solely because of his involvement (especially
>as it was directed by Tony Scott, in my opinion the least talented director in
>all of Hollywood...but I digress. Incidentally, I believe Scott agreed to take
>on the project only if Tarantino was hired to do this polish; Scott, of course,
>directed the Tarantino-penned TRUE ROMANCE, and in my opinion fucked it up
>beyond repair...but I digress again).
I don't think Tony Scott is the least talented director in Hollywood.
I think TRUE ROMANCE had more going for it than you say, and I also think
THE HUNGER was interesting and definitely watchable.
No, my ballot for least talented director in Hollywood would have
to go to Renny Harlin. He has never made an even average movie.
>Mike D'Angelo
--
George W. Harris gha...@emerald.tufts.edu
Doesn't the fact that there are *exactly* 50 states seem a little suspicious?
Frank P Barletta
Arnold Paul Niekamp <an81...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> wrote:
>Tarantino did some rewrites, but a lot of people did rewrites for this movie,
>some of them after him. He put in stuff about Hackman's dog and old sub
>movies.
Supposedly, Tarantino also added some sort of dialogue about "Star
Trek", along the lines of his past riffs on cultural stuff like
his explanation of "Like a Virgin".
John Lindsey
>I feel fairly confident that you misinterpreted your source. My understanding
>is that Tarantino did what's known in the biz as a "polish" on the CRIMSON TIDE
>script; he was specifically brought in to punch up some of the dialogue and pop
>culture references (there's apparently a discussion of the Silver Surfer that
>is recognizably in his style). He did *not*, according to the reports I've
As a digression, am I the only one who is totally unimpressed with
Tarantino's dialogue? Whenever I see one of his movies, I get the
impression that he is trying too hard when it comes to the dialogue,
which leaves it sounding stilted and unnatural. His stuff reminds me of
a bad high school writing class paper...he tries to sound clever by
using a wide variety of words that no one uses in normal conversation,
and you can tell.
John
--
With a sure hand the master carver whittled away at the wood. Sliver by sliver
an image formed, until one day, when the sun was behind a particularly heavy
cloud. The image came to life. The carver marveled over his creation,
thankful for its new life. The creature mauled him to death at once, of course.
Emmet Obrien
>As a digression, am I the only one who is totally unimpressed with
>Tarantino's dialogue? Whenever I see one of his movies, I get the
>impression that he is trying too hard when it comes to the dialogue,
>which leaves it sounding stilted and unnatural. His stuff reminds me of
>a bad high school writing class paper...he tries to sound clever by
>using a wide variety of words that no one uses in normal conversation,
>and you can tell.
I really don't see what you're getting at.. could you give examples ? I've
always thought realistic dialogue was one of QT's strengths.. I have no
experience whatsoever of the environments in which his characters move, but
they sound credible and self-consistent [ apart from the Bonnie story,
which came across to me as two-dimensional and silly ]
Emmet
--
"It was the day my grandmother exploded.."
- Iain Banks, _The Crow Road_
Peter L. Sullivan
Christopher Schweda
> As a digression, am I the only one who is totally unimpressed with
> Tarantino's dialogue? Whenever I see one of his movies, I get the
> impression that he is trying too hard when it comes to the dialogue,
> which leaves it sounding stilted and unnatural. His stuff reminds me of
> a bad high school writing class paper...he tries to sound clever by
> using a wide variety of words that no one uses in normal conversation,
> and you can tell.
>
>
Nope. I'll second that.
I don't understand the hoopla about QT's dialogue. It ain't that snappy
and it ain't that memorable.
David Mamet is the dialogue master, hands down.
The Madonna speech in _Dogs_, for example. Good idea, funny, but it could
be trimmed down and chopped.
All this, IMHO. But, yeah: I don't get it. The critics rave about his
dialogue. I'd say it's fair, always interesting, but it ain't great like
Mamet's. Hell, I'd go so far as to blaspheme and say, if ya want good
dialogue on a weekly basis, look at NYPD Blue. That's great dialogue in
the "Mametian" vein.
Chris Schweda
st...@rosie.uh.edu
> No, my ballot for least talented director in Hollywood would have
rewatch...
--Hector O'Sexual>to go to Renny Harlin. He has never made an even average movie.
Yair Raveh
>
>
>
>as it was directed by Tony Scott, in my opinion the least talented
director in
>all of Hollywood...but I digress.
Ever seen an Arne Glimcher movie? Now there's a loser.
(What you didn't see Just Cause (the terrible) or Mambo King (the
boring)??)
Vaci Koblizek
<stuff deleted>
All this, IMHO. But, yeah: I don't get it. The critics rave about his
dialogue. I'd say it's fair, always interesting, but it ain't great like
Mamet's. Hell, I'd go so far as to blaspheme and say, if ya want good
dialogue on a weekly basis, look at NYPD Blue. That's great dialogue in
the "Mametian" vein.
Chris Schweda
IMHO, the opening dialogue in Pulp Fiction is dire. Made a real
bad first impression on me, anyway! I couldn't decide which was worse,
the lines or Roth's delivery of them. Either way it just sounded
false.
Vaci K
--
================================================================================
| Vaci Koblizek email: va...@tss.com |
| |
| Teknekron Software Systems, 36 Monument Street, London EC3R 8LJ |
================================================================================
Joe Genovese
Actually, I am the (not so) proud owner of "Plan Nine from Outer Space".
I think Ed Wood would win 'least talented director' hands down. You have
to give him credit fro effort and perservierance, though.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ "What does it matter? In this ~ ~ ~
~ world everyone tries to cheat ~ ~ Car...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu ~
~ everyone else anyay. And you ~ ~ ~
~ know what? We're all semtemced ~ ~ In Real Life: Joe Genovese ~
~ to death already. So why not? ~ ~ ~
~ -Amelia, Coinspinner's Story ~ ~ ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul H. Henry
SPOILERS AHOY
I knew the Star Trek dialogue was coming, and I was disappointed in
it, personally. "I'm Captain Kirk and you're Scotty, and I need that
radio fixed at warp speed"... c'mon, is this the best the king of pop
culture references can do?
However, the Silver Surfer and submarine movie stuff was pure Tarantino. I
also wonder if he added the lines about the Spanish horses.
--
=============================================================================
_ (phe...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu) || Yet Another Liberal Intellectual
|_) || Elitist Who Thinks He's Better Than You
| aul H. Henry - Lawrence, Kansas ||>>>>>>>>>Remember Oklahoma City<<<<<<<<<<
==================== http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~phenry ===================
Conrad V Frelichowski
>In article <3ou1cb$r...@emerald.tufts.edu>, gha...@emerald.tufts.edu (George W Harris) writes:
>> No, my ballot for least talented director in Hollywood would have
>>to go to Renny Harlin.
>What? What about die hard? That is the ONLY action film that I'll bother to
>rewatch...
>
Didnt James McTiernan direct all 3 Die Hard movies, not Harlin?
LAURENCE BIER
_John_ McTiernan directed _DH_ and _With a Vengeance_. Harlin directed
_DH 2: Die Harder_. I believe this may be because McTiernan was busy filming
_The Hunt for Red October_ (although he did not direct the other Jack Ryan
films, Philip Noyce did).
Baps Malone
>>
>Didnt James McTiernan direct all 3 Die Hard movies, not Harlin?
McTiernan directed the first Die Hard and the new Die Hard 3.
Harlin did Die Hard 2.
Chris.
Pat Fisher
Ron Howard? His movies are just fluffy crap. I remember watching
Backdraft. What firefighter would go into a burning building with an
open fire jacket and no oxygen? Was he wearing a helmet?
Pat-
Breen Frazier
phe...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Paul H. Henry) wrote:
>
> SPOILERS AHOY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I knew the Star Trek dialogue was coming, and I was disappointed in
> it, personally. "I'm Captain Kirk and you're Scotty, and I need that
> radio fixed at warp speed"... c'mon, is this the best the king of pop
> culture references can do?
>
> However, the Silver Surfer and submarine movie stuff was pure Tarantino. I
> also wonder if he added the lines about the Spanish horses.
I thought everyone pointing guns at each other had to be included by him.
Christ, what movie of his _doesn't_ have some kind of Mexican standoff?
George W Harris
>st...@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
>
>>In article <3ou1cb$r...@emerald.tufts.edu>, gha...@emerald.tufts.edu (George W Harris) writes:
>>> No, my ballot for least talented director in Hollywood would have
>>>to go to Renny Harlin.
>>What? What about die hard? That is the ONLY action film that I'll bother to
>>rewatch...
>>
McTiernan directed Die Hard and Die Hard With a Vengance. Renny
Harlin directed Die Hard 2.
Mike D'Angelo
>
>>wouldn't advise seeing the film solely because of his involvement (especially
>>as it was directed by Tony Scott, in my opinion the least talented director in
>>on the project only if Tarantino was hired to do this polish; Scott, of course,
>>directed the Tarantino-penned TRUE ROMANCE, and in my opinion fucked it up
>>beyond repair...but I digress again).
>
>
> Could you please *not* digress and go on a little about why you
>think Tony Scott is the least talented director in Hollywood? I mean,
>I'm sure you could come up with totally valid criticisms of his work,
>and technique, however, I think it would be no problem to find a dozen
>less talented directors
I've received a couple of e-mail messages requesting further elaboration on
this topic, and now this posted reply, so I suppose I ought to say more.
However, I don't know that I have the energy or the inclination to write a
lengthy treatise entitled "Tony Scott: The Loud and the Ludicrous," or
whatever. Of course, there are numerous directors who are less technically
adept than Scott, but no major director that I can think of (and Scott is a
major director, at least where gross receipts are concerned) has made as many
films that have been so relentlessly boring and flashily empty as has he. I
confess that I never saw THE HUNGER or THE LAST BOY SCOUT, but otherwise
Scott's filmography reads, for me, like a short list of the most gawdawful
films ever made: TOP GUN, BEVERLY HILLS COP II, DAYS OF THUNDER, REVENGE.
Dreadful, dreadful work, devoid of passion, originality, humor, or a single
recognizable human emotion. Every one of these films was an endurance test for
me, and I walked out of each theater half expecting to be handed a t-shirt
bearing the words "I Sat Through All of DAYS OF THUNDER [or whichever] And Only
Fell Asleep Twice!"
I will concede, grudgingly, that TRUE ROMANCE was not quite as excruciating to
behold as the rest of Scott's oeuvre, but I didn't like the film very much, and
what I did like about it was Tarantino's writing and the acting in the
supporting roles--certainly not Scott's direction. Scott seems incapable of
understanding that different screenplays require different choices; for
example, it didn't occur to him that perhaps the blue-filtered dueling-tongues
closeups that he used for the Cruise/McGillis love scenes in TOP GUN might not
be appropriate for the love scenes in TRUE ROMANCE, and so we were forced to
sit through that bombast *again*, in a context that made it even more
ridiculous than it was the first time (and it was plenty ridiculous in TOP
GUN). TRUE ROMANCE is recognizably a Tarantino work, but the tone is all
wrong; it badgers and hectors you where the films Tarantino has directed
insinuate and sneak. (Someone will want an example, so here's one: recall
scenes like the one in RESERVOIR DOGS when White and Pink talk about what
happened at the jewelry store, in which both characters are a great distance
from the camera and Pink is out of frame for much of the conversation, or the
one in PULP FICTION when Vincent and Jules talk about foot massages at the far
end of the apartment hallway. Try to imagine Tony Scott using such a setup.)
It's the best film Scott's ever made (of the ones I've seen), but that's not
saying much at all.
I can't say that the trailer for CRIMSON TIDE makes me think I'm going to
revise my opinion of Scott's talent anytime soon.
Mike D'Angelo
>
>
>> I don't think Tony Scott is the least talented director in Hollywood.
>>I think TRUE ROMANCE had more going for it than you say, and I also think
>>THE HUNGER was interesting and definitely watchable.
>
>subtext(Subtext? no, that movie was a homoerotic playground!), a
>subtle propaganda piece for the airforce, and quite a good fighter pilot
>genre piece. What other example from the genre has such convincing flight
>sequences that actually capture the feel of being there in the jet? I'm
>hoping Crimson Tide does the same for submarines.
As the resident Scott-basher and one of the resident JURASSIC PARK-bashers,
I'll respond to this praise of TOP GUN much as I respond to those who think
JURASSIC PARK is a great film because of the cool dinosaur thrills: you could
get that same "I'm-right-there-in-the-plane!" sensation from a ten-minute
flight-simulation-style amusement-park ride, and you wouldn't have to put up
with banal dialogue, infantile pop psychology masquerading as insight, or Kelly
McGillis.
Michelle Phillip
John Lindsey <jl...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
>As a digression, am I the only one who is totally unimpressed with
>Tarantino's dialogue? Whenever I see one of his movies, I get the
>impression that he is trying too hard when it comes to the dialogue,
>which leaves it sounding stilted and unnatural. His stuff reminds me of
>a bad high school writing class paper...he tries to sound clever by
>using a wide variety of words that no one uses in normal conversation,
>and you can tell.
>
>
John, I completely agree with you. QT's writing may seem clever but in
the end I find his work shallow and superficial. I think QT's work is
ostentatious (sp?) as if he is trying to impress his audience with how
much he knows. I saw Crimson Tide yesterday and while his polish
definitely added to the scenes he reworked (and it is very easy to tell
which scenes he punched up) I don't think the QT could have written this
script. CT had both text and subtext, especially since it dealt with the
idea and nature of conflict. QT's scripts have text. They're all style and
flash but take that way and what's left. Nothing. I was never so
disappointed as when I went to see PF for the second time and I hated
it. Aside from Sam Jackson's performance, I found it boring and tedious.
Take away all that superfluous, fast jive talking and there in nothing but a
shell of a story.
Michelle
Andrew Kahn
sch...@umich.edu (Christopher Schweda) wrote:
> > As a digression, am I the only one who is totally unimpressed with
> > Tarantino's dialogue? Whenever I see one of his movies, I get the
> > impression that he is trying too hard when it comes to the dialogue,
> > which leaves it sounding stilted and unnatural. His stuff reminds me of
> > a bad high school writing class paper...he tries to sound clever by
> > using a wide variety of words that no one uses in normal conversation,
> > and you can tell.
> >
> >
> you must be an idiot man.
>
> Nope. I'll second that.
>
> I don't understand the hoopla about QT's dialogue. It ain't that snappy
> and it ain't that memorable.
>
> David Mamet is the dialogue master, hands down.
>
> The Madonna speech in _Dogs_, for example. Good idea, funny, but it could
> be trimmed down and chopped.
>
Rodney Payne
>From: va...@ukdev06.newsflash (Vaci Koblizek)
>Subject: Re: Crimson Tide by Mr. Tarantino/QT's Bad Dialogye
>Date: 12 May 1995 16:49:47 GMT
>In article <schweda-1205...@pm012-28.dialip.mich.net> sch...@umich.edu (Christopher Schweda) writes:
> <stuff deleted>
> All this, IMHO. But, yeah: I don't get it. The critics rave about his
> dialogue. I'd say it's fair, always interesting, but it ain't great like
> Mamet's. Hell, I'd go so far as to blaspheme and say, if ya want good
> dialogue on a weekly basis, look at NYPD Blue. That's great dialogue in
> the "Mametian" vein.
> Chris Schweda
>IMHO, the opening dialogue in Pulp Fiction is dire. Made a real
>bad first impression on me, anyway! I couldn't decide which was worse,
>the lines or Roth's delivery of them. Either way it just sounded
>false.
I felt the opening `Madonna' speech of _Reservoir Dogs_ was worse. The most
overblown attempt at naturalism since _Manhattan Murder Mystery_ (or rather,
about half of that film). What was its purpose? To show that even criminals
can be pretentious, albeit crude? As slice of life conversation it also
failed, mostly for lack crispness and Tarantino's awful delivery. With far
too much emphasis on words like `dick', it was brutal speech, yet Mr Brown
seemed glib in the best tradition of Richard Gere: it seemed like part of
another script.
Rodney Payne
Christina Varga
>>As a digression, am I the only one who is totally unimpressed with
>>Tarantino's dialogue? Whenever I see one of his movies, I get the
>>impression that he is trying too hard when it comes to the dialogue,
>>which leaves it sounding stilted and unnatural. His stuff reminds me
of
>>a bad high school writing class paper...he tries to sound clever by
>>using a wide variety of words that no one uses in normal conversation,
>>and you can tell.
Yes, I agree. It seems witty at first, but then... As my film professor
used to say "Talking heads don't say much." Especially when what they
are spouting is trite.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>John, I completely agree with you. QT's writing may seem clever but in
>the end I find his work shallow and superficial. I think QT's work is
>ostentatious (sp?) as if he is trying to impress his audience with how
>much he knows.
I saw Crimson Tide yesterday and while his polish
>definitely added to the scenes he reworked (and it is very easy to tell
>which scenes he punched up) I don't think the QT could have written this
>script. CT had both text and subtext, especially since it dealt with
the
>idea and nature of conflict. QT's scripts have text. They're all style
and
>flash but take that way and what's left. Nothing. I was never so
>disappointed as when I went to see PF for the second time and I hated
>it. Aside from Sam Jackson's performance, I found it boring and
tedious.
>Take away all that superfluous, fast jive talking and there in nothing
but a
>shell of a story.
>
>Michelle
which is what would probably happen. I enjoyed the first time.
Lately, I tend to agree. A lot of Tarantino's work is flashy and
superficial, but, nevertheless, I engaged myself in a HUGE
argument/debate defending it. In retrospect, I concur that it's more
tawdry than talent. Hindsight is 20/20.
Christina
Jesse J. Contreras
> In article <3p9kkh$d...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, pet...@cats.ucsc.edu says...
> >
>
> Now that I think about it, I think the least talented director would have to
> be whoever was responsible for "Last Action Hero" as I find that the most
> offensive piece of film I've ever watched.
Nothing could be as banal, stupid, or as offensive as that "Black
Rain" flick starring Michael Douglas that came out around 5 years ago.
Simon Dawson
>>wouldn't advise seeing the film solely because of his involvement (especially
>>as it was directed by Tony Scott, in my opinion the least talented director in
>>all of Hollywood...but I digress. Incidentally, I believe Scott agreed to take
>>on the project only if Tarantino was hired to do this polish; Scott, of course,
>>directed the Tarantino-penned TRUE ROMANCE, and in my opinion fucked it up
>>beyond repair...but I digress again).
>Mr. Art School,
> Could you please *not* digress and go on a little about why you
>think Tony Scott is the least talented director in Hollywood? I mean,
>I'm sure you could come up with totally valid criticisms of his work,
>and technique, however, I think it would be no problem to find a dozen
>less talented directors
It had to be asked.. new thread eminent!! Just who the heck is -THE- worst
director out there? How many votes will Tony Scott get? Post all votes
now, the worst is yet to be heard..
--
Sim...@PERCEPTION.Co.NZ (Simon Dawson)
_________________________________________________________________
Analysing the past. Creating the future. Controlling the present.
Zach Douglas
>confess that I never saw THE HUNGER or THE LAST BOY SCOUT, but otherwise
>Scott's filmography reads, for me, like a short list of the most gawdawful
>films ever made: TOP GUN, BEVERLY HILLS COP II, DAYS OF THUNDER, REVENGE.
I'd just like to say I agree with you. I'm not saying he is the WORST in
Hollywood, but man, he's at least the most overrated, or if there was a
'cash flow/quality' ratio, he's would be unfairly high for what he's turned
out. He is no where near QT or any of the other greats technically and like
you point out has no real sense of style when it comes to letting a camera
angle or shot setup help tell a story.
But I guess for shows that involve auto-racing and "Last Boyscouts" what can
you ask for?
I too put True Romance in the class of 'good flicks' but it doesn't even
come close to my favorites. I guess everyone will always wonder what TR and
NBK would have been like had QT done them as well.
I'll get back with thoughts on Crimson Tide when I see it.
Zach Douglas
>script. CT had both text and subtext, especially since it dealt with the
>idea and nature of conflict. QT's scripts have text. They're all style
>it. Aside from Sam Jackson's performance, I found it boring and tedious.
>Take away all that superfluous, fast jive talking and there in nothing but
That's sounds a lot like what 90% of a college english class I took thought
about "A Catcher in the Rye". I'm not saying you 'aren't getting it' or
something, but there is a lot in QT's writing that ties in important parts
of his movie to later dialogue, and visual clues as well. Like "I'm going
to chew my food and laugh at her stupid jokes."
Well, I'm not going to go to far into anything, because I think it all comes
down to a matter of taste or personal preference.
I think he's dialogue is great, and along with the fact that he makes bad
actors good, good actors great, and great actors phenomenal, along with some
great camerawork and a bad ass selection of songs to go with it you've got
the makings of two classic movies. (RD and PF)
I dunno. Just seems to me, his dialouge is one part of what makes his
movies what they are, and without it they just wouldn't be the same.
Oh well.
It's late, I"m not real sure what I set out to say.
>Michelle
Zach Douglas
I'm with him again. Take away the flight scenes, and Top Gun becomes Cock
Tail but possibly worse. huh huh I said "Cock Tail" I think that should be
Cocktail. Sorry. True, Top Gun brought the thrills of an air force
documentary tape to the big screen, but says nothing for any true artistic
talent on the part of Scott. He does a good job at doing what he does, but
I don't think his movies could ever scratch the surface of 'The Big Boys'
movies like Kubrick, Martin I don't want to try and spell his name now S.,
and QT, and countless others.
Joe Genovese
> In <3p75er$m...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> pet...@cats.ucsc.edu (Peter Anthony Cowan) writes:
> It had to be asked.. new thread eminent!! Just who the heck is -THE- worst
> director out there? How many votes will Tony Scott get? Post all votes
> now, the worst is yet to be heard..
> Sim...@PERCEPTION.Co.NZ (Simon Dawson)
> _________________________________________________________________
> Analysing the past. Creating the future. Controlling the present.
Hands down the orst director is Ed Wood. I actually ownn one of hi
movies and it is BAD! It is so bad, it is actually fun to watch!
Joe
Tempest
>From: "Jesse J. Contreras" <jes...@leland.stanford.edu>
>Subject: Re: Least Talented Director in Hollywood
>Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 02:14:01 -0700
>On 17 May 1995, Zach Douglas wrote:
>
>> be whoever was responsible for "Last Action Hero" as I find that the most
>> offensive piece of film I've ever watched.
>
>Rain" flick starring Michael Douglas that came out around 5 years ago.
s. Unless of course the director also did the writing.
Tempest
Johnny Destiny
Yeah, and if my grandmother had balls, she'd be my granddaddy.
Love, "It's showtime, folks."
X
-- Joe Gideon
On 14 May 1995, NANCY wrote:
> In article <1995May12.2...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, phe...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Paul H. Henry) writes:
> >In article <3ou3o6$7...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, fpb...@pitt.edu (Frank P Barletta) writes:
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> Supposedly, Tarantino also added some sort of dialogue about "Star
> >> Trek", along the lines of his past riffs on cultural stuff like
> >> his explanation of "Like a Virgin".
> >
> >SPOILERS AHOY
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I knew the Star Trek dialogue was coming, and I was disappointed in
> >it, personally. "I'm Captain Kirk and you're Scotty, and I need that
> >radio fixed at warp speed"... c'mon, is this the best the king of pop
> >culture references can do?
> >
> The entire theather full of people where I was at last night clapped at the
> Startrek References! Of course, as a person who makes sure to be in the
> front row of the opening night of Startrek, I loved the Trek references.
> Actually, if the entire movie had been set in outer space and the Russians
> were aliens, this could have been a Trek Movie. ;-)
>
>
> /\_____/\
> / o o \
> ( == ^ == )
> ) - (
> ( )
> ( ( ) ( ) )
> (__(__)___(__)__) *nancy*
>
>
>
Johnny Destiny
First of all, I disagree. Quentin's scripts are more than just
text and flash as you say. If you peel back the outer layer, you'll find
that each script is valid on multiple levels. Dogs is a parable of
loyalty, much the same as Pulp is a parable of redemption.
Could Quentin have written CT by himself? I doubt it. It's not
really his style. That would be like John Sayles writing Demon Knight.
I think his polish is quite good, and stands out only to geeks like us.
I think to the casual observer, it's a good blend, and a fine fine motion
picture.
Also, if you were bored by Pulp, why'd ya go see it a SECOND time?
Breen Frazier
and that Bette Midler witch movie that came out two summers ago. I think
he also did _Swing Kids_ but I'm not sure. Anyway, he's done some
terrible live action Disney films.
But: it's important to remember that a lot of times directors don't have
much in terms of creative control anyway. Someone mentioned John
McTiernan from _Last Action Hero_ as the worst. But McTiernan also
directed _Predator_ and the original _Die Hard_ (as well as the most
recent one), so clearly he's got some talent. I think _Last Action Hero_
was just a case of everyone's influences (Schwarzenegger's, Columbia's
Mark Canton, etc.) getting in the way and rushing the movie.
Ortega case is probably the same. When Jeffrey Katzenberg was at Disney,
producing crappy films for nothing, he probably read the script to _Swing
Kids_ and said "Swing dancing in Nazi Germany, that's great. You can
produce this movie for bread crumbs. Go to it." And if Ortega hadn't
been there to oblige, someone else would have.
Still, Ortega is pretty damn bad.
daniel federman
LAURENCE BIER
Christina Varga <cva...@nytimes.com> wrote:
>
>I haven't seen PF more than once, but I would hate to ruin it for myself
>which is what would probably happen. I enjoyed the first time.
>
>Lately, I tend to agree. A lot of Tarantino's work is flashy and
>superficial, but, nevertheless, I engaged myself in a HUGE
>argument/debate defending it. In retrospect, I concur that it's more
>tawdry than talent. Hindsight is 20/20.
I am by no means someone who will defend Tarantino's work on every single
level, but I think it's a mistake to go after his dialogue as too stylized.
It's a little bit like comparing Raymond Chandler's writing with Raymond
Carver's, or a John Guare play with Eugene O'Neill. It's very much a zen
thing, it either works or it doesn't. Why do the larger than life
characterizations and over-the-top dialogue work in Tarantino's movies,
while in any number of forgettable movies and TV programs they don't, I
dunno. As for hindsight, I don't know if I would call it that so much as the
current zeitgeist of saying about Tarantino, "Hey this guy isn't _that_
good."
Zach Douglas
br...@merle.acns.nwu.edu says...
>
>My vote for worst director goes to Kenny Ortega, responsible for _Newsies_
>and that Bette Midler witch movie that came out two summers ago. I think
>he also did _Swing Kids_ but I'm not sure. Anyway, he's done some
>terrible live action Disney films.
Swing Heil!!!
Ewww. What a movie.
>But: it's important to remember that a lot of times directors don't have
>much in terms of creative control anyway. Someone mentioned John
>McTiernan from _Last Action Hero_ as the worst. But McTiernan also
>directed _Predator_ and the original _Die Hard_ (as well as the most
>recent one), so clearly he's got some talent. I think _Last Action Hero_
Ahh. Well, if McTiernan did the first Die Hard, I'll take my statement back.
That's probably my favorite action movie.
I guess the criteria that would have to be used for worst director is to
take all his works together and add em up. But, since I can't say I know
which director has done which all movies, it's hard to say who is the worst.
But that puts Scott up there (down there) with the worst, since he has done
a few good films, a lot of mediocre films, and quite a few bad films IMO.
Zach Douglas
>
>I haven't seen PF more than once, but I would hate to ruin it for myself
>which is what would probably happen. I enjoyed the first time.
>Lately, I tend to agree. A lot of Tarantino's work is flashy and
>superficial, but, nevertheless, I engaged myself in a HUGE
>argument/debate defending it. In retrospect, I concur that it's more
>tawdry than talent. Hindsight is 20/20.
I disagree with both of yall! I just saw Pulp three times this week, and
find it just as brilliant and funny each time. It's kidna the opposite of
what the girl on single's tells the guy in the club "C. You DO have an act,
not having an act, is your act". Take the opposite of that. By Tarantino
seemingly writing a script that is 'flashy and superficial' he is actually
doing more to benefit his stories.
I can't see where "Blatant and Obvious" can be better than QT's writing.
Of course, I'm really not sure what we are talking about. There is quite a
bit of difference between Dogs, Pulp, and his work on Crimson Tide which I
have yet to see.
>Christina
>
Ron Drake
[ snip ]
>
> I too put True Romance in the class of 'good flicks' but it doesn't even
> come close to my favorites. I guess everyone will always wonder what TR and
> NBK would have been like had QT done them as well.
If you want to see the definitive flick of this genre, catch "Badlands," to
which "True Romance" pays much homage.
*******************************************************************
DIRECTOR: Why should I hire this guy? What experience does he have?
PRODUCER: He knows ME!
--Brent Horger
*******************************************************************
Jeff W.
Since I do not pay any attention to the names of the directors of
movies which I absolutely abhorred (i.e: License to Drive, MegaForce,
Treasure of the Four Crowns, Karate Kid 3), it would be difficult to
make a list of the worst directors of all time. Bue I CAN give you my
personal TOP five:
1. Stanley Kubrick (Dr. Strangelove, 2001, Full Metal Jacket)
2. Quentin Tarantino (Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction)
3. Tony Scott (Last Boy Scout, True Romance, Crimson Tide)
4. Brian DePalma (The Untouchables, Body Double, Dressed to Kill)
5. Paul Verhoeven (RoboCop, Total Recall, Basic Instinct)
Please keep in mind that these are NOT the directors of my favorite
films (that is a different subject entirely). By these are the
directors who bear a strikingly consistent STYLE...and believe me, when
it comes to directing, STYLE beats the hell out of SUBSTANCE.
Jeff
(of course, I was totally drunk when I wrote this, so I could be wrong.
Or I could be totally right. YOU MAKE THE CALL!)
Knut Sjurseth
: Funny, that;s Ridley Scott, Tony's bro.
: Fedx
Oh, come on!! Tony Scott, Ridley Scott or Renny Harlin??!! Are you
kidding??!! Hollywood is known for lesser talents! What about the director
of THE SPECIALIST? THAT guy obviously didn't have a clue about filmmaking!
I belive his name was Louis Llosa or something! And this goes for
Waterworld-director Kevin Reinolds as well! I mean; 175 million????????
What the hell were you thinking??!!!To the end of the unemploymentline AT
ONCE!!!! Shame on you!!
-Knut Sjurseth-
bssb...@zippy.dct.ac.uk
> On 17 May 1995, Zach Douglas wrote:
>
>> In article <3p9kkh$d...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, pet...@cats.ucsc.edu says...
>> >
>>
>> Now that I think about it, I think the least talented director would have to
>> be whoever was responsible for "Last Action Hero" as I find that the most
>> offensive piece of film I've ever watched.
John McTiernan, wasn't it? As in Predator, Red October, Die Hard, etc????
> Nothing could be as banal, stupid, or as offensive as that "Black
> Rain" flick starring Michael Douglas that came out around 5 years ago.
except possibly that banal, stupid [and offensive?] "Basic Instinct" flick
starring Michael Douglas that came out after it.
Actually, I rather liked Black Rain - up to a point. Not a great movie, but
okay.
--
****************************************************************************
* Disclaimer; the views expressed here are not those of a mere human, or of*
* any group or organisation. *
****************************************************************************
* X-Phile? Trekker? Whatever - try the Speculative Fiction Homepage at *
* HTTP://WWW.TAY.AC.UK/~BSSBR2BL/INDEX.HTML *
****************************************************************************
* $-) "[a sociopath] is either a Beast or a God." Aristotle, 328 BCE >:^( *
Emmet Obrien
On 17 May 1995, Zach Douglas wrote:
>>Now that I think about it, I think the least talented director would have to
>>be whoever was responsible for "Last Action Hero" as I find that the most
>>offensive piece of film I've ever watched.
Hey, what ? So it wasn't a great straight action movie a la _Terminator_,
it was ego-masturbation for Ah-nold, but it was entertaining. Mind you, I
also think _Hudson Hawk_ was a great flick.. _offensive_ ? How so ? Now
_True Lies_ was offensive.
>Nothing could be as banal, stupid, or as offensive as that "Black
>Rain" flick starring Michael Douglas that came out around 5 years ago.
Not a great movie, but mildly entertaining.. there have been far far worse
movies. _Problem Child_, anyone ?
Emmet
--
"It was the day my grandmother exploded.."
- Iain Banks, _The Crow Road_
Darren Ewing
Joe Genovese <car...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu> writes:
>
>On Wed, 17 May 1995, Simon Dawson wrote:
>
>> In <3p75er$m...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> pet...@cats.ucsc.edu (Peter
Anthony Cowan) writes:
>
>> It had to be asked.. new thread eminent!! Just who the heck is -THE-
worst
>> director out there? How many votes will Tony Scott get? Post all
votes
>> now, the worst is yet to be heard..
>
>> Sim...@PERCEPTION.Co.NZ (Simon Dawson)
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Analysing the past. Creating the future. Controlling the present.
>
>Hands down the orst director is Ed Wood. I actually ownn one of hi
>movies and it is BAD! It is so bad, it is actually fun to watch!
>
> Joe
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~
~
>~ world everyone tries to cheat ~ ~
Car...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu ~
>~ everyone else anyay. And you ~ ~
~
>~ know what? We're all semtemced ~ ~ In Real Life: Joe
Genovese ~
>~ to death already. So why not? ~ ~
~
>~ -Amelia, Coinspinner's Story ~ ~
~
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~
>
poor soul. Many apologies to this fellow movie fan. I'll briefly
encapsulate opinions stated in the letter.
Picking Fred Olin Ray or Roger Corman would be not only too easy but
probably inaccurate given that some of Corman's work is considered to
be classic.
I instead choose to pick on Renny "God I wish I were Jon Woo" Harlin.
His gratuitous use of slow-motion in his action flicks threatens to
drag his films to a complete stop. He has a terrible sense of rythm and
advanced word on his new pirate epic is that he is a complete lunatic
on the set.
If you doubt that suspense part watch Die Hard and then Die Hard 2,
watch Terminator 2 and then watch CLiffhanger. (By the way, why was
cliffhanger nominated for best visual effects a few years ago, I
thought the effects were terrible.)
Anyway, that's just my opinion. I'm seldom wrong.
Ewing
Mike D'Angelo
>
> First of all, I disagree. Quentin's scripts are more than just
>text and flash as you say. If you peel back the outer layer, you'll find
>that each script is valid on multiple levels. Dogs is a parable of
>loyalty, much the same as Pulp is a parable of redemption.
> Could Quentin have written CT by himself? I doubt it. It's not
>really his style. That would be like John Sayles writing Demon Knight.
Not quite as ridiculous as you probably intended. Sayles has written a number
of silly genre films, including but not limited to:
ALLIGATOR (killer-'gator-in-the-sewer flick, worth renting)
THE HOWLING (killer-werewolves-in-The-Colony flick)
PIRANHA (killer-fishies-in-the-river flick)
BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS (sci-fi-ripoff-of-SEVEN-SAMURAI flick)
Sure, nowadays he writes classy films about union troubles and baseball
scandals and Irish oral tradition, but in the late 70's and early 80's, Sayles
would happily have written DEMON KNIGHT V: THE GORER! THE GORER! if there had
been at least six figures on the check.
Tim Coble
kind of debate.
I just know that I have FUN at his movies, and it's been getting harder the last
few years to have FUN at the movies. Overblown, overhyped or whatever,
thank god he makes movies that are fun to see.
And I do think his contributions (if, indeed, they are the scenes I think they
are) made Crimson Tide a bit more fun as well.
kathy
on her husbands account
A Robertson in 489
Tarantino rewrites are so freckin' obvious that it gets annoying!
These pointless references to "Silver Surfer, Star Trek, ect..."are
pretty contrived in the dialogue. These flimsy, silly conversation
pieces don't work at all in a thriller like this.
Jason Kenneth Heiser
Pyun. Nemesis, Captain America, Sword and the Sorcerer, et al. The guy
can't direct traffic. He is Alan Smithee incarnate, perhaps even the
ethnic descendent of Ed Wood. I'd like to strangle him with culluloid for
subjecting me to the CRAP that he has directed.
__Jason_
S. Yate
: In article <3p9kkh$d...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, pet...@cats.ucsc.edu says...
: I'm with him again. Take away the flight scenes, and Top Gun becomes Cock
: Tail but possibly worse. huh huh I said "Cock Tail" I think that should be
: Cocktail. Sorry. True, Top Gun brought the thrills of an air force
: documentary tape to the big screen, but says nothing for any true artistic
I'm not trying to flame you guys or anything, because I largely agree
with you about Top Gun not being a masterpiece, but I have to point out
that these types of films are made for the masses, and there happens to
be a very real market for that. Not everyone is a film student, and most
people are simply looking for a means of escape for a few hours, not to
make a movie a part of their lives. Most people aren't looking for
thought provoking dialouge, just enough to get the story across without
having to think too much. Sad but true. And if you are going to tear down
a movie, at least know the facts about it. The Air Force does not use
F-14's, the Navy does. That's why the film takes place at Miramar NAVAL
Airstation. So, while I agree with you as a film student, I must say, it
makes us look pretty stupid when we talk of movies that have depth, and
are thought provoking, when we can't even remember a major fact like the
setting of a one-dimentional movie such as TOP GUN.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"Captain of our farey band" -Puck
"Helena is here at hand" aacc...@clark.net
"And the Youth, mistook by me"
"Pleading for a lovers fee"
"Shall we their fond pagaents see?"
"Lord, what fools these mortals be."
Rodney Payne
Which idiot helmed _Why?lander III: Use the Force, Connor_ aka
_Sighlander III: The Final Dementia_? Mulcahy may have made the first two
look like rock videos, but that film was a joke. Was the mystery auteur
aware that if a fight occurs behind something, the audience can't see it?
--
Rodney Payne | What is the meaning of life? Life has no
| meaning. It's just a fortunate coincidence
spur...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au | of carbon chemistry. Forget about it.
rgp...@cfs01.cc.monash.edu.au | Anonymous
Zach Douglas
> 1. Stanley Kubrick (Dr. Strangelove, 2001, Full Metal Jacket)
> 2. Quentin Tarantino (Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction)
I agree on Kubrick. Man, he's like the fucking master of style. Pick my
favorite 10 movies, and half of them are all his. The other 2 are QT's.
I dunno about those other guys though. I guess SK and QT are my favorite as
far as discernable styles go. I haven't seen enough Scirosese (did I come
close?) to try and say I'm a "Big Fan" like some people would. Still
catching on to John Woo. Things are sorta backwards to us, and his movies
don't make sense to me sometimes. They are a lot different from our movies
to not go into detail.
Anyways, yeah. Good picks at 1 and 2.
Antony Hare
Jaw...@Apple.COM (Ron Drake) wrote:
|In article <3pc8q5$h...@news.onramp.net>, za...@onramp.net (Zach Douglas)
wrote:
|> come close to my favorites. I guess everyone will always wonder what TR
and
|> NBK would have been like had QT done them as well.
|
|If you want to see the definitive flick of this genre, catch "Badlands," to
|which "True Romance" pays much homage.
Indeed, sir. Similar xylophone music, theme and female narration. I'm actually
surprised that more people haven't noticed the blatant similarities. I suppose
Badlands (Martin Sheen) was a pretty small film.
IMHO, Tony Scott is a perfect job with True Romance. In fact, TR is my second
favorite movie (after GoodFellas) because I think it is the perfect combo of
slick filmmaking (quick, solid, fast) and dialogue (quick, solid, fast and
clever). I know some people disgaree because they think Scott is some sort of
"Hollywood-Last-Boy-Scout-Days-of-thunder" kind of "wanna-be-Ridley" director.
Personally, I like the way he makes movies. Anyway...
Antony
+ -- --
| Antony Richard Hare / University of Western Ontario
| http://www.isisnet.com/jeff/antony.html
+ -- --
Jonathan Brief
: On 17 May 1995, Zach Douglas wrote:
: > In article <3p9kkh$d...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, pet...@cats.ucsc.edu says...
: > >
: >
: > Now that I think about it, I think the least talented director would have to
: > be whoever was responsible for "Last Action Hero" as I find that the most
: > offensive piece of film I've ever watched.
Ahhh. The difference between a bad film and a bad director. Good directors can
make bad, or even awful, films. The bloke responsible for TLAH was John
McTiernan. He has previously directed Die Hard & Predator. I think that both
of these films easily make up for his latter folly.
: Nothing could be as banal, stupid, or as offensive as that "Black
: Rain" flick starring Michael Douglas that came out around 5 years ago.
Possibly offensive. Banal and stupid? You have yet to convince me.
To say who is the least talented director, you can't just pick your least
favourite film. You must look at a directors entire work.
I can't think of any really shit directors who are constantly churning out
films. There could well be some, though (I only know about the good ones).
Seeya,
Jonny
John S. Lewocz
Jonathan Brief <sd...@westminster.ac.uk> wrote:
>Jesse J. Contreras (jes...@leland.stanford.edu) wrote:
>: On 17 May 1995, Zach Douglas wrote:
>
>: > In article <3p9kkh$d...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, pet...@cats.ucsc.edu says...
>: > >
>: >
>: Rain" flick starring Michael Douglas that came out around 5 years ago.
>
>Possibly offensive. Banal and stupid? You have yet to convince me.
Black Rain, IMHO, was one of those movies that could have been good had
the director not been stupid. It was like preparing a great 7 course meal
and then serving it with putrid seawater instead of a good bottle of wine.
What the hell was the point in having Michael Douglas play that character
as such an unmitigated asshole? And a boring and stupid one at that.
Totally ruined the movie for me. For one, it's hard to be concerned about
the adventures of a character if I care little whether he lives or dies (I grew
tired of his antics early in the film). Two, suspension of disbelief was made
difficult because I can't imagine someone like that being sent to a foreign
country or given any responsiblity whatsoever.
--john
denise m morris
>> Yeah, well. Quentin's kind of a fruitloop. Maybe it's just me.
>>
>> Brandon
>
>Ummm...it is just you. Sorry I had to be the one to tell you.
>
>Geoff
NOPE! i agree with you brandon!
D
Jason Bayne
> : > offensive piece of film I've ever watched.
>
> Ahhh. The difference between a bad film and a bad director. Good directors ca
> McTiernan. He has previously directed Die Hard & Predator. I think that both
> of these films easily make up for his latter folly.
>
--
ha...@alamo.net (Jason Bayne)
ALAMO Internet -- +1 (210) 561-9815/21 -- San Antonio, Texas
Shaun Hervey
director of the recent "miniseries" The Langoliers. You'd have to see it
to believe it.
--
Shaun Hervey
PD Carter
hollywood you have to also claim Bladerunner to be atrocious.
Last action hero was good if you consider how poor an idea and story they
had, I have respect for John Mctiernan for making the mess watchable.
My candidate for worst director:-Brett leonard ,the man behind lawnmower man
and Hideaway, and now he's being considered by Joel Silver for directing a
film of Alan Moore's masterpiece V for vendetta ,please I beg you NO.
I'll calm down in a minute.
--
PDC (Peter D Carter)
"Cut the crap , where's the Chud?"
pet...@vaxb.mdx.ac.uk
>and Hideaway, and now he's being considered by Joel Silver for directing a
>film of Alan Moore's masterpiece V for vendetta ,please I beg you NO.
>I'll calm down in a minute.
>
wrecking masterpieces. I'm sorry, but this scares me....
No doubt a movie of "V" would be set in America and have a happy ending
where V turns out to be her dad, and everyone smiles...
Ye Gods.
PEDRO JESUS BALDANTA SEIJAS
> Ron Howard? His movies are just fluffy crap. I remember watching
> Backdraft. What firefighter would go into a burning building with an
> open fire jacket and no oxygen? Was he wearing a helmet?
> Pat-
Peter Weir :-)
Sean May
> > : > Now that I think about it, I think the least talented director
would have
> > : > be whoever was responsible for "Last Action Hero" as I find that
the most
> > : > offensive piece of film I've ever watched.
> >
> > Ahhh. The difference between a bad film and a bad director. Good
directors ca
> > make bad, or even awful, films. The bloke responsible for TLAH was John
> > McTiernan. He has previously directed Die Hard & Predator. I think that both
> > of these films easily make up for his latter folly.
> >
> Don't forget The Hunt For Red October, another J.T. great!
While I agree that McTiernan is nowhere near this category, Predator was a
pretty crappy movie. However, both Die Hard and Hunt were great (Die Hard
is IMHO the best ever of its genre).
Sean
--
"Well, while Jim wrestles with that enormous, vicious, mutated
platytiger-r-r-r, I'm going to explain to little Naomi the benefits
of Mutual of Omaha's long-term group life insurance."
- With apologies to Marlin Perkins of Mutual of Omaha's "Wild Kingdom"
mor...@usa1.com
>***************************************************************************
*****
>"...Oliver Stone is worse than radium poisoning..." -- Walter Connolly in
>NOTHING SACRED, 1937 (I'm not making this up; see for yourself)
>***************************************************************************
Heh... Ben Hecht, a true visionary.
I agree completely with your assessment of Tony Scott's work, though I hear
he's a great dancer :)
George W Harris
Oh God, oh God, oh God. It was like watching a train wreck. It
was horrible, sickening, but you just couldn't look away. Oh, the
humanity.
For the rest of my life, whenever I see a movie, I know I'll be
able to say truthfully "It wasn't as bad as STEPHEN KING'S THE LANGOLIERS."
And I've seen some pretty bad movies.
>Shaun Hervey
--
George W. Harris gha...@emerald.tufts.edu
Doesn't the fact that there are *exactly* 50 states seem a little suspicious?
Christopher Chen
Brett Leonard directing V FOR VENDETTA???
God... we are f#*`@!ed...
If somehow we could E-mail Joel Silver to make a campaign against this
stupid idea... or something similar...
This is even worse than casting Michael Keaton as Batman 7 years ago...
Why do we deserve this?
Chris
spi...@direct.ca
Zachary I. Ralston
Did someone say Peter Weir? Did someone actually and seriously
say Peter Weir was the worst director in Hollywood. Let's forget,
for the moment, that this Australian genius has nothing to do with
Hollywood. Let's forget, for the moment, that Weir is responsible for
past classics such as Picnic at Hanging Rock, Gallipoli, Dead Pet's
(oops) Dead Poet's Society, and The Mosquito Coast.
Let's, instead, look at his work now. His last film, 1993's
"Fearless" starring Jeff Bridges, Rosie Perez, and Isabella Rossilini.
This was one of the best, most beautiful, most touching and glorious
films of the decade. His frame composition is perfect. His pacing
is immaculate. His force and lack of pretention are fresh, and his
sense of editing is unbelievable. Not in a MILLION years would I EVER
even think of calling Peter Weir the WORST anything, much less director.
Whoever said that is either joking or insane, or both.
Zach
"Thinking is for the gloopy ones." - Alex in Clockwork Orange.
Karla Andrea Daniels
In <3q8rkt$1...@hobbes.cc.uga.edu> ral...@phoenix.cs.uga.edu (Zachary I. Ralston) writes:
How about Taylor Hackford as the worst director in Hollywood? Everything
he has done has been *so* completely Hollywood, but not good Hollywood, and
anything of his that is worth watching is only so because of either
exceptional performances(i.e. Officer and a Gentleman), good dance
sequences( White nights), good screenplay(Everybody's All American; the
screenplay by Tom Rickman, I believe(Who wrote Coal Miners Daughter) was
excellent, but I think Taylor *just* *didn't* *get it*), or because you
want to see how he mutilated a brilliant cinema masterpiece by remaking
it(Against All Odds). Anyone(read: Mike "Art Student" D'Angelo) who
thinks Tony Scott is any worse at making Hollywood movies, is just crazy.
Sean May
(denise m morris) wrote:
Denise -
How dare you insult him like that, you horrible, horrible woman! You
should be shamed, shamed I tell you!
BTW, hi. I didn't know you posted here! :-)
Damian Penny
>In article <shervey.ucsd.edu...@shervey.extern.ucsd.edu> shervey.ucsd.edu (Shaun Hervey) writes:
>>There are also TV directors in Hollywood. For this reason, I nominate the
>>director of the recent "miniseries" The Langoliers. You'd have to see it
>>to believe it.
> Oh God, oh God, oh God. It was like watching a train wreck. It
>was horrible, sickening, but you just couldn't look away. Oh, the
>humanity.
> For the rest of my life, whenever I see a movie, I know I'll be
>able to say truthfully "It wasn't as bad as STEPHEN KING'S THE LANGOLIERS."
>And I've seen some pretty bad movies.
THE LANGOLIERS was directed by Tom Holland, who also made the cheesy-but-fun
FRIGHT NIGHT and CHILD'S PLAY.
--
DAMIAN PENNY - dpe...@ganymede.cs.mun.ca - MEMORIAL UNIVERSITY OF NEWFOUNDLAND
"I can't imagine what kind of problem Senna is having. I imagine it must
be some sort of electrical problem." -Murray Walker
Damian Penny
Have you seen DELORES CLAIBORNE yet? I thought it was great, and, personally,
I think Hackford must be given much of the credit; in all my years of going
to movies, I've never seen more skilful use of flashbacks.
Brian B Haugh
: gha...@emerald.tufts.edu (George W Harris) writes:
: >In article <shervey.ucsd.edu...@shervey.extern.ucsd.edu> shervey.ucsd.edu (Shaun Hervey) writes:
: >>There are also TV directors in Hollywood. For this reason, I nominate the
: >>director of the recent "miniseries" The Langoliers. You'd have to see it
: >>to believe it.
: > Oh God, oh God, oh God. It was like watching a train wreck. It
: >was horrible, sickening, but you just couldn't look away. Oh, the
: >humanity.
: > For the rest of my life, whenever I see a movie, I know I'll be
: >able to say truthfully "It wasn't as bad as STEPHEN KING'S THE LANGOLIERS."
: >And I've seen some pretty bad movies.
: THE LANGOLIERS was directed by Tom Holland, who also made the cheesy-but-fun
: FRIGHT NIGHT and CHILD'S PLAY.
: --
: DAMIAN PENNY - dpe...@ganymede.cs.mun.ca - MEMORIAL UNIVERSITY OF NEWFOUNDLAND
: "I can't imagine what kind of problem Senna is having. I imagine it must
: be some sort of electrical problem." -Murray Walker
You are so absolutely right about THE LANGOLIERS. The director must've
had an ulterior motive, or been drunk all the time, or found it funny to be
so bad, because that movie SUCKED. And the actors performed like they had
read their lines for the first time the morning of the shoot. Dean Stockwell
should be embarrassed! And the really sad thing is that the plot was good!
Picture the plot with a real director and real money and more effort on
the actor's part ( and cut out an hour ) and it could've been a good movie.
My two cents.
Brian
Lincoln Stewart
roger spottiswoode
richard benjamin
renny harlin
ron howard
collectively, these ppl are responsible for
my stepmother's an alien, die hard 2, willow, far and away, that vietnam plane
movie with mel gibson, and many other pieces of crap.
btw, i thought last action hero was quite a good film, far and away better
than the other action movie that came out that summer, jurrasic park.
lincoln
John_G._Wieja
>From: i...@io.org (Lincoln Stewart)
>Subject: Re: Who is THE worst director in Hollywood?
>Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 09:48:07
>lincoln
I thought it was a universal agreement that Ed Wood was Hollywood's worst ever
director?
kris
Gary Russel /ADVISOR L. FAUSETT
>>and Hideaway, and now he's being considered by Joel Silver for directing a
Gee, I kinda liked Hideaway. It's not my all-time favorite, but it didn't
try to be.
Joe Genovese
> I thought it was a universal agreement that Ed Wood was Hollywood's worst ever
> director?
>
> kris
Yes, he is. I own 'Plan 9' and it is BAD. however, it is so
bad, it is actually funny. I have seen most of the movies named
in this thread as 'worst of all time', and "Plan 9 from Outer Space"
makes them look like masterpieces.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ "What does it matter? In this ~ ~ Car...@KRYPTON.mankato.msus.edu ~
~ world everyone tries to cheat ~ ~ ~
~ everyone else anyay. And you ~ ~ IRC:AlienMind ~
~ know what? We're all semtemced ~ ~ ~
~ to death already. So why not? ~ ~ ~
~ -Amelia, Coinspinner's Story ~ ~ In Real Life: Joe Genovese ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
neil sarver (neil)
a form of entertainment. Ed Wood has never bored me as a filmmaker.
I think that nearly all lowbudget thrillers are much worse. And - as I
stated on the nearly identically titled thread - John Boorman, his films
make me out of my mind bored.
Neil
Adam Neil Villani
neil sarver (neil) <nsarver@beringa> wrote:
>I think that the worst thing any movie can be is boring. It is, after all,
>a form of entertainment. Ed Wood has never bored me as a filmmaker.
Have you seen "Orgy of the Dead?"
--
Adam Villani
ad...@cco.caltech.edu
"I was in this prematurely air-conditioned supermarket..."
Call the MCI "Wow! It's Hot!" hotline at 1-800-WOW-ITS-H to hear summer sounds.
pet...@vaxb.mdx.ac.uk
>I've said it before, I'll say it again. John Boorman! His best movie
>(probably Excaliber) is boring. His worst are pretentious and banal.
>
I'm not convinced. "Deliverance" is pretty good, and "Point Blank" is
astonishing! Yeah, his later stuff's a bit tedious, but "Excalibur" is
okay, and even "Hope and Glory" is bearable.
That said, "Zardoz", "The Eemerald Forest", and "Exorcist II - the heretic"
are dire.
Cheers,
Peter J Higgins
Alex A Goddard
looking and pretentious as hell. Batman could have been great but
Burton's heavy hand causes the whole thing to collapse under its own
weight about half way through.
Other aweful directors, IMHO are: Oliver Stone, John Hughes and Barry
Levinson.
Alex
neil sarver (neil)
(probably Excaliber) is boring. His worst are pretentious and banal.
Neil
Eli Lehrer
: > I thought it was a universal agreement that Ed Wood was Hollywood's worst ever
: > director?
: >
: > kris
: Yes, he is. I own 'Plan 9' and it is BAD. however, it is so
: bad, it is actually funny. I have seen most of the movies named
: in this thread as 'worst of all time', and "Plan 9 from Outer Space"
: makes them look like masterpieces.
I think you have a good point. Like all of Wood's films, Plan 9 is watchable.
Most other "bad" films aren't. As bad as Plan 9 is, there have been
others (including some big budget ones) that are much worse.
--
Eli Lehrer -- ea...@cornell.edu or e...@wwa.com
Joe Genovese
> I think you have a good point. Like all of Wood's films, Plan 9 is watchable.
> Most other "bad" films aren't. As bad as Plan 9 is, there have been
> others (including some big budget ones) that are much worse.
I would not really say Plan 9 is watchable unless you are REALLY
REALLY REALLY non-sober. It is not that the movie is bad, everything
about the movie suck. The acting is really bad, I've seen better sets in
elementary school plays, and the special effects are the worst. The
greatest (worst) thing about the movie is the director's desision to
replace the late Bela Lugosi (who died half way through filming) with
Mrs. Wood's CHIROPRACTOR!
> Eli Lehrer -- ea...@cornell.edu or e...@wwa.com > >
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alex A Goddard
: Nothing wrong with dark-looking films. Not much wrong with being pretentious
: either, provided you do it well.
You're right, there's nothing wrong with dark, provided it isn't so dark
that the set is obscured. Dark is fine, as long as the photography is
sharp, but it isn't on _Batman_. It's just a dark mess.
: I thought Batman was a prime example of a film that looked great but was sunk
: by a leaden script. Burton had little to do with its failure, in my opinion.
His heavy handed direction had everything to do with it. If the script
had problems, Burton should have had them fixed. The final decision on
the script is always the director's. If he's not to blame, who is?
: I'm one of those people who actually like Oliver Stone. Anyone who can stir up
: that much controversy and get people to go after him like he's a dog that
: crapped on their lawn and eaten their children (when all he's really done is
: make a movie that they don't like) has to be doing something right. I like
: anything inflammatory.
I like controvesial stuff that has content, but Stone is just piss and
wind. His controversy is too contrived to interest me.
: Hughes is just a hack, he's not worthy of your hate. Agree about Levinson,
: though.
I don't hate Hughes, nor do I hate Levinson or Stone. I just think
they're shit directors.
Alex
Michael B
says...
>
>The Exterminator (dunc...@ix.wcc.govt.nz) wrote:
>
>: Nothing wrong with dark-looking films. Not much wrong with being
pretentious
>: either, provided you do it well.
>
>You're right, there's nothing wrong with dark, provided it isn't so dark
>that the set is obscured. Dark is fine, as long as the photography is
>sharp, but it isn't on _Batman_. It's just a dark mess.
I have to Disagree on Batman, i thought it was one of the best of the
year, 1989. Batman 2 was a mess though, Burton i think did a Great job
on Ed Wood, which is a fantastic film, and Pee Wee's Adventure is a great
film too.
>
>: I thought Batman was a prime example of a film that looked great but
was sunk
>: by a leaden script. Burton had little to do with its failure, in my
opinion.
>
>His heavy handed direction had everything to do with it. If the script
>had problems, Burton should have had them fixed. The final decision on
>the script is always the director's. If he's not to blame, who is?
>
>
: I'm one of those people who actually like Oliver Stone. Anyone who can
stir up
>: that much controversy and get people to go after him like he's a dog
that
>: crapped on their lawn and eaten their children (when all he's really
done is
>: make a movie that they don't like) has to be doing something right. I
like
>: anything inflammatory.
>
>I like controvesial stuff that has content, but Stone is just piss and
>wind. His controversy is too contrived to interest me.
JFK , Wall street, AND Platoon, were very good Movies IMHO, Stone seems
to have gone too far lately, but may REdeem himself with RICHARD NIXON.
Michael B
>
>I've said it before, I'll say it again. John Boorman! His best movie
>(probably Excaliber) is boring. His worst are pretentious and banal.
>
> Neil
check out the Emeral Forest, amazing movie.
The Exterminator
>I've said it before, I'll say it again. John Boorman! His best movie
>(probably Excaliber) is boring. His worst are pretentious and banal.
Boorman's best movie is Deliverance, actually. I like that a great deal.
Excalibur was OK. Evearything else I've seen by him is blah. He's not worthy
of hate, though. He's better just ignored.
Pearce
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If I could pick my own death, it would be in a roller coaster that jumps the
tracks and careens into a packed crowd at a cotton candy stand at a state
fair." - John Waters
Eli Lehrer
: On 7 Jun 1995, Eli Lehrer wrote:
: > I think you have a good point. Like all of Wood's films, Plan 9 is watchable.
: > Most other "bad" films aren't. As bad as Plan 9 is, there have been
: > others (including some big budget ones) that are much worse.
: I would not really say Plan 9 is watchable unless you are REALLY
: REALLY REALLY non-sober. It is not that the movie is bad, everything
: about the movie suck. The acting is really bad, I've seen better sets in
: elementary school plays, and the special effects are the worst. The
: greatest (worst) thing about the movie is the director's desision to
: replace the late Bela Lugosi (who died half way through filming) with
: Mrs. Wood's CHIROPRACTOR!
Ok, this is getting a little silly, but I really think the
movie is watchable. I watched it while totaly sober.
The movie's watchabilty comes largely from its unintentional humor--how
can you not like the chriopractor who covers his face with the cape, the
blatent use of stock fotage, the wigged out scientific descritions and
so on? Compare this to an insipid and pretentious film like "Wyatt Earp"
or "Heaven's Gate" or a simply stupid film like "Dumb and Dumber" and
you'll see what I'm talking about.
--
The Exterminator
>My vote goes to Tim Burton. Everything he does is just so damn dark
>looking and pretentious as hell.
Nothing wrong with dark-looking films. Not much wrong with being pretentious
either, provided you do it well.
>Batman could have been great but
>Burton's heavy hand causes the whole thing to collapse under its own
>weight about half way through.
I thought Batman was a prime example of a film that looked great but was sunk
by a leaden script. Burton had little to do with its failure, in my opinion.
Batman Returns was even better looking but had an even worse script. No wonder
he opted out of the third one.
>Other aweful directors, IMHO are: Oliver Stone, John Hughes and Barry
>Levinson.
I'm one of those people who actually like Oliver Stone. Anyone who can stir up
that much controversy and get people to go after him like he's a dog that
crapped on their lawn and eaten their children (when all he's really done is
make a movie that they don't like) has to be doing something right. I like
anything inflammatory.
Hughes is just a hack, he's not worthy of your hate. Agree about Levinson,
though.
Pearce
Mark
be! I think his name is Peter Greenaway - he "directed" The Baby of Macon
(I can't believe Ralph Fiennes acted in that!).
Mark.
Valerie Lockard
: In article <3r68l4$e...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca>, agod...@uoguelph.ca
: >: Nothing wrong with dark-looking films. Not much wrong with being
: >: either, provided you do it well.
: >You're right, there's nothing wrong with dark, provided it isn't so dark
: >sharp, but it isn't on _Batman_. It's just a dark mess.
: I have to Disagree on Batman, i thought it was one of the best of the
: year, 1989. Batman 2 was a mess though, Burton i think did a Great job
: on Ed Wood, which is a fantastic film, and Pee Wee's Adventure is a great
: film too.
: >
: >: I thought Batman was a prime example of a film that looked great but
: was sunk
: >: by a leaden script. Burton had little to do with its failure, in my
: opinion.
: >
: >His heavy handed direction had everything to do with it. If the script
: >had problems, Burton should have had them fixed. The final decision on
: >the script is always the director's. If he's not to blame, who is?
: >
: >
: : I'm one of those people who actually like Oliver Stone. Anyone who can
: stir up
: >: that much controversy and get people to go after him like he's a dog
: that
: >: crapped on their lawn and eaten their children (when all he's really
: done is
: >: make a movie that they don't like) has to be doing something right. I
: like
: >: anything inflammatory.
: >
: >I like controvesial stuff that has content, but Stone is just piss and
: >wind. His controversy is too contrived to interest me.
: JFK , Wall street, AND Platoon, were very good Movies IMHO, Stone seems
: to have gone too far lately, but may REdeem himself with RICHARD NIXON.
without a doubt john hughes is beyond a hack- his films are SO BAD
and he is actually fooling himself ACTUALLY THINKING (or believing
it) he is turning out QUALITY films ! he writes hack movies and then
"directs" them. see HOME ALONE 2 and judge for yourself.
Gary
pet...@vaxb.mdx.ac.uk
who gave us "The Draughtsman's Contract", "A Zed and Two Noughts" and
"The Cook, The Thief..." can't be all bad.
Emmet O'Brien
> I don't know if he's in Hollywood - he sure as hell doesn't deserve to
>be! I think his name is Peter Greenaway - he "directed" The Baby of Macon
Haven't seen _the Baby of Macon_, but on the strength of _Drowning by
Numbers_ and _Prospero's Books_, Greenaway is one of the best directors
around..
Emmet
--
Hell wasn't perfect, but it was paradise compared to New Jersey.
- James Morrow, _Only Begotten Daughter_
Emmet O'Brien
> I would not really say Plan 9 is watchable unless you are REALLY
>REALLY REALLY non-sober. It is not that the movie is bad, everything
>about the movie suck. The acting is really bad, I've seen better sets in
>elementary school plays, and the special effects are the worst. The
>greatest (worst) thing about the movie is the director's desision to
>replace the late Bela Lugosi (who died half way through filming) with
>Mrs. Wood's CHIROPRACTOR!
I agree on all those points, but I'd still watch it over and over.. it's so
bad it's hysterical. Has anyone ever seen a Peter Sellers film, it's called
either _The Flying Christian_ or _The Magic Christian_, the one where he's a
filthy rich captain of industry ? That is both really bad and unwatchable..
Emmet
--
Cats are intelligent enough to know whether they're alive or dead, but
"Schroedinger's Sheep" doesn't have the same ring to it..
Todd Grappone
>In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.950608202941.21222E-100000@rowan>, Mark
<m...@coventry.ac.uk> writes:
>> I don't know if he's in Hollywood - he sure as hell doesn't deserve to
>>be! I think his name is Peter Greenaway - he "directed" The Baby of Macon
>
> Haven't seen _the Baby of Macon_, but on the strength of _Drowning by
> Numbers_ and _Prospero's Books_, Greenaway is one of the best directors
> around..
>
> Emmet
I am afraid you are wrong Emmit. Pound for pound Frank Oz is a better
director than Greenaway. His films are dull, dull, dull and dull. How can a
director make self circumcision dull? His films suck.
Todd Grappone
grap...@pop.pitt.edu
To...@pirrs.cbs.pitt.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
-Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of-
- religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the-
- freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people-
- peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a-
- redress of grievances. ------------------------------------
-----------------------------
marco bertoli
James Carretta
: and he is actually fooling himself ACTUALLY THINKING (or believing
: it) he is turning out QUALITY films ! he writes hack movies and then
: "directs" them. see HOME ALONE 2 and judge for yourself.
: Gary
Yeah, you got that right. He's gone WAY down since The Breakfast Club
(with the exception of Planes, Trains and Automobiles). However, he
still has his clones, Howard Deutch and Chris Columbus (Mrs. Doubtfire
excepted) to do the job for him. My choices would have to be:
- Marc Rocco - has he ever heard of keeping the camera still?
- Renny Harlin - Cliffhanger is one sadistic movie
- Stephen Hopkins - what masterpiece of his moved the producers to pick up
the
$40 or so million tag for the awful "Blown Away"? Was it "A Nightmare on
Elm Street 5"? No? Then how about "Judgment Night"?
- Marco Brambilla - did he actually "direct" Demolition Man? Has he
directed anything? Or is his name a
pseudonym for either Joel Silver or Sylvester Stallone? Boy, I can't
wait for the Danny Cannon film "Judge Dredd". Especially after the
international smash "The Young Americans". (All right, I'll back off
that one. I haven't seen TYA yet. Still, my prediction is Dredd will be
worse than the specialist because James Woods isn't in it.)
Jim Carretta
Sleepless in Seattle
>>Burton's heavy hand causes the whole thing to collapse under its own
>>weight about half way through.
Burton does have a problem with this, his movies always do look great but when
you deeper into the film you begin to realise that their isn't really much to
it. He creates great atmosphere and scenarios and of course awesome sets, as
soon as you are tired and sick of all that you begin to loose interest.
>I thought Batman was a prime example of a film that looked great but was sunk
>by a leaden script. Burton had little to do with its failure, in my
>opinion.
>>Other aweful directors, IMHO are: Oliver Stone, John Hughes and Barry
>>Levinson.
I totally disagree with all but Oliver Stone. Stone sucks and I hate him but
Hughes and Levinson are great directors. Hughes hasn't done anything really
worth mentioning since he did Home Alone but his previous films are
breathtaking, especially the Breakfast Club. Levinson's Bugsy was a little
over-rated but still a good peice of work.
LAURENCE BIER
Sleepless in Seattle <bw...@midland.co.nz> wrote:
>>>Other aweful directors, IMHO are: Oliver Stone, John Hughes and Barry
>>>Levinson.
>
>I totally disagree with all but Oliver Stone. Stone sucks and I hate him but
>Hughes and Levinson are great directors. Hughes hasn't done anything really
>worth mentioning since he did Home Alone but his previous films are
>breathtaking, especially the Breakfast Club. Levinson's Bugsy was a little
>over-rated but still a good peice of work.
>
I got news for you: Hughes did not direct _Home Alone_ or its sequel, that
was former Spielberg protege Chris Columbus (Hughes did write and produce
it, though). The last picture Hughes directed was _Curly Sue_. I've
never liked any of Hughes's films: I believe his fabled insight in teenage
life is tres over-rated. Less celebrated pictures such as _Fast Times at
Ridgemount High_ and _Dazed and Confused_ give a far better depiction of
that world. Stone is a horrible director, whose pictures have absolutely
no coherence whatsoever. He is guilty of what Spielberg is often accused
of doing, making pictures that are all flash and no substance. Levinson
did some real good work in _Tin Men_ but I hated _Bugsy_, with Meyer
Lansky as some kind of Old Testament prophet and pretty boy Warren Beatty
as convincing as Bugsy Siegel as Tab Hunter would be playing Freddie
Kreuger. No way does beatty have the toughness, the chutzpah that the
real Siegel, or any successful gangster, has. For the definite portrayal
of these characters, check out _Godfather I & II_ with Alex Rocco as Moe
Green and Lee Strasberg as Hymie Roth.
Xcursions
m...@coventry.ac.uk says...
>
> I don't know if he's in Hollywood - he sure as hell doesn't deserve
to
>be! I think his name is Peter Greenaway - he "directed" The Baby of
Macon
>
> Mark.
as "Drowning by Numbers" and "the Cook, The thief...."