Michael Bartels
john wolfe
As far as I can remember I - a loyal lurker, as you may recall (LoL is the
technical term, I think; not LOL, mind you) - have never read anything about
Michael Bartels here. I must admit I started lurking only a few months ago, but
still, why this (embarrassed?) silence?
I don't know much about Michael, but I think he behaved like a perfect gentleman
when Steffi Graf let him know via the media that he was out. No comments, no
interviews. And I'm absolutely certain that he was offered more than a few
hundred marks for talking or writing about 'My time with Steffi' or 'Things
nobody knows about the tennis queen' or even 'Steffi really private' (whatever
that may mean). And he could have found a few unpublished photos.
Frankly, in his place I might have felt that Steffi had not treated me
absolutely fair and I might have thought about having some little revenge. Ah
yes, I can hear you say, but you're just a mean old man (MOM). But then, such a
reaction would have been human and understandable. It's not too pleasant to have
to read about Steffi being really happy for the first time in her life because
she has found, at long last, the right man to make her happy, whereas that quiet
(read: boring) Michael had never been able to satisfy her (sexually and
otherwise).
Of course I don't blame Steffi for falling in love with Andre and I'm happy that
she is happy. But still I can't help feeling that she could have treated Michael
better after all these years, or at least that she did not behave as admirably
as he did. Correct me if I'm wrong.
john w. ('Wolfie', hi Cinci)
irma
he did not say many private things. He is to much gentleman for
that. I don`t know how she realy treated him, but maybe and
this is only my oppinion, the break had nothing to do with
Andre. Maybe she could not take the fear(I am sure she had it)
anymore about him when he was risking his life every week. Or
there can be many reason why she could not continue with him.
I am sure she had her reasons.
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Sara Goswami
This is DAD (Disagreeable Argumentative Diva). ;-)
I don't know how long you've been reading this forum, but the issue of
Michael Bartels was discussed here in some detail soon after the Graf-Agassi
pairing became public last September. There hasn't been any discussion of
him lately because there hasn't been any news about him. If he had made any
public pronouncements about his time with Steffi, or the manner of the
breakup, I am sure it would have been commented upon here.
A few things I'd like to say about the points you make:
> I don't know much about Michael, but I think he behaved like a perfect
gentleman
> when Steffi Graf let him know via the media that he was out. No comments,
no
> interviews.
The reports last year said that Steffi had let him know in person that she
was ending the relationship because she was now with Agassi. I know that
Steffi wrote about the breakup in an article before the rumours about Agassi
had been confirmed. I remember reading a quote from Bartels' dad in mid
September that said that the breakup had come three weeks ago, thereby
placing the breakup in the last week of August, when there certainly weren't
any media reports around. In light of these, I don't think it is quite
accurate to say that Steffi let Bartels know about the breakup through the
media.
Also, while there weren't too many comments from Bartels, there *were* a few
from him/his dad that immediately spring to mind. For one, there was the
famous "When I decide to talk, I will roar" comment from Michael. Then there
was Michael's dad saying (paraphrasing here) "Agassi is not the guy for her.
If she calls again, I'll tell her that", "She had been saying that she
wanted to take a break from the tennis circus, but now she has jumped right
into it again", and, to my mind, the somewhat distasteful "All Michael has
now is the dog she had presented to him".
>And I'm absolutely certain that he was offered more than a few
> hundred marks for talking or writing about 'My time with Steffi' or
'Things
> nobody knows about the tennis queen' or even 'Steffi really private'
(whatever
> that may mean). And he could have found a few unpublished photos.
> Frankly, in his place I might have felt that Steffi had not treated me
> absolutely fair and I might have thought about having some little revenge.
Ah
> yes, I can hear you say, but you're just a mean old man (MOM). But then,
such a
> reaction would have been human and understandable. It's not too pleasant
to have
> to read about Steffi being really happy for the first time in her life
because
> she has found, at long last, the right man to make her happy, whereas that
quiet
> (read: boring) Michael had never been able to satisfy her (sexually and
> otherwise).
I agree that Michael could have been really mean and vengeful if he wanted
to, and it is certainly to his credit that he has been quite the gentleman.
However, I don't think Steffi has really done anything to provoke his wrath.
She has left him for a more high profile guy, and the stories of her
newfound happiness are all over the press, but it isn't as if she has
personally gone around saying that Agassi gives her more happiness and
satisfaction than Michael ever did. Journalists might make that inference,
but as long as Steffi herself does not say so, Michael doesn't really have
reason to be offended.
> Of course I don't blame Steffi for falling in love with Andre and I'm
happy that
> she is happy. But still I can't help feeling that she could have treated
Michael
> better after all these years, or at least that she did not behave as
admirably
> as he did. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Here you have lost me. What about Steffi's behaviour do you find
objectionable (or at least not so admirable)? She hasn't badmouthed Michael,
she hasn't suggested directly or indirectly that he isn't a good guy or an
adequate lover. The only thing you can accuse her of is being very publicly
in love with Andre, and that is not a bad thing, as you yourself concede.
What, in your opinion, should she have done differently?
Sara
Amy Cottrell
>
> As far as I can remember I - a loyal lurker, as you may
recall (LoL is the
>technical term, I think; not LOL, mind you)
Should we say Lolli for "loyal lurker" so as to avoid confusion
with LOL?
- have never read anything about
>Michael Bartels here. I must admit I started lurking only a few
months ago, but
>still, why this (embarrassed?) silence?
There are very few articles about Steffi's relations with
Bartels. It was something that they kept very private. However,
it's not as if no comment was made about him. Check out these
(limited) archived messages that contain "Bartels" in AFSG at:
http://www.deja.com/dnquery.xp?ST=QS&DBS=2&groups=alt.fan.steffi-
graf&QRY=bartels&svcclass=dnserver
and in RST at:
http://www.deja.com/dnquery.xp?ST=QS&DBS=2&groups=rec.sport.tenni
s&QRY=bartels&svcclass=dnserver
(I know they're two line, broken links, but you can figure it
out; there's also some "overlap" on the lists as various
messages were cross-posted). I'll send you more stuff as I find
it.
>I don't know much about Michael, but I think he behaved like a
perfect gentleman
>when Steffi Graf let him know via the media that he was out.
I'm unsure as to the timing, but I think she told him before she
mentioned it in print. At least his father made some statement
to the press that she had informed Michael that he was "history"
and that she was now seeing Andre. There was also some whining
about how Steffi and Michael were supposed to go house-hunting
together and how all she left him with was a dog. Was Steffi
supposed to pay him alimony? Or should she have taken Rover
back, too?
> No comments, no
>interviews.
Not quite. See above. And he did give one interview (see the
archived lists) in which he said that when he was ready, he
would talk, and what he would have to say would roar. But then I
think he got a negative reaction to his "threat." He was just
outmaneuvered.
>And I'm absolutely certain that he was offered more than a few
>hundred marks for talking or writing about 'My time with
Steffi' or 'Things
>nobody knows about the tennis queen' or even 'Steffi really
private' (whatever
>that may mean). And he could have found a few unpublished
>photos.
I wonder how much "damage" he could have done and not risked a
lawsuit? Also, he would be revealing much about himself in any
"private" expose.
>Frankly, in his place I might have felt that Steffi had not
treated me
>absolutely fair and I might have thought about having some
little revenge. Ah
>yes, I can hear you say, but you're just a mean old man (MOM).
MOM = short for mother......? Seriously, aside from perhaps
having more "warning" about getting the boot, what more could
you expect?
>But then, such a
>reaction would have been human and understandable. It's not too
pleasant to have
>to read about Steffi being really happy for the first time in
her life because
>she has found, at long last, the right man to make her happy,
>whereas that quiet
>(read: boring) Michael had never been able to satisfy her
(sexually and
>otherwise).
That's what the media writes, not what Steffi says. She has
always maintained that Bartels was there for her. Is she
supposed to say Michael was a "cannonball shot in the horizontal
position" just to defend his manly honor?
>Of course I don't blame Steffi for falling in love with Andre
and I'm happy that
>she is happy. But still I can't help feeling that she could
have treated Michael
>better after all these years, or at least that she did not
behave as admirably
>as he did. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
Aside from dumping him earlier, what else should she have done?
There isn't a really "graceful" way to dump someone. We don't
know what they said to each other in private. Heck, we don't
even know what their relationship was really like.
hokie
so wrong. She fell in love with another man and broke up with
him. That happens all the time. From what Agassi and Steffi say,
their relationship did not begin until a little before the US
Open so she didn't cheat on him so to speak. I do think Agassi
was the main reason behind the breakup, but he wouldn't have
been if Bartels was the right man for Steffi. And although
Michael could have been a whole lot worse in terms of getting
revenge, him not doing anything spiteful doesn't warrant praise
in my opinion. And that comment about all I have left is a dog
was pretty pathetic. What surprises me a little is that the
tabloids never really questioned Agassi about him persistantly
pursuing a lady who was involved in a long term relationship not
that I personally think he did anything wrong. Steffi has made
comments about Andre showing her how much happiness life has to
offer and she has never been more content, but if that is true
what do you expect her to say in the interviews- she is
miserable?
cincy
As far as info on Bartels, there really hasn't been very much.
For some reason, I expected some sort of interview with him
during Wimbledon because England is where the tabloid money is.
When that didn't happen, I figured Michael had really decided to
be a gentlemen and keep his mouth shut. That's a good thing.
Afterall, if his relationship with Steffi was so wonderful, why
would she allow another man to pursue and catch her? Bad mouthing
Steffi would only make Michael look bad, especially since Steffi
never said anything bad about him.
Personally, I think Steffi and Andre became lovers long before
the US Open. Both are being coy about it because they don't want
to hurt their previous partners' feelings. I'm betting that, in a
few years after they are married with children, we will find out
they actually became lovers in Florida during the Lipton in 1999.
Steffi moved in with Andre right after the Open. I can't see her
doing that if the relationship only became intimate a couple of
weeks before. Of course, I don't really think it's any of my (or
anybody elses) business when "it" happened.
I do agree with Amy that Michael's father said Steffi told
Michael about Andre in a private conversation. Michael didn't
learn it from the papers. That would have been too cruel and
Steffi is not cruel.
I do feel a little sorry for Michael because he really can't get
away from the stories and photos of Steffi and Andre kissing and
acting like besotted teenagers. I don't recall Steffi ever
kissing or hugging (or even holding hands) with Michael in
public. And it must be hard when he reads Steffi's comments about
being in love for the first time.
Oh well, he'll just have to get over it.
hokie
too hard for Michael to avoid the stories of Andre and Steffi-
not if he made a deliberate attempt to. Who knows mabye he has
moved on and is happy, too.
Vanessa
supposed to go house-hunting together and how all she left him
with was a dog. Was Steffi supposed to pay him alimony? Or
And if she had taken the dog, they would have cried because "she
even took his dog!". Break-ups are rarely amicable, and if
Steffi was not happy with MB, it would be unfair to expect her
to stay with him simply to protect her image. I think Steffi has
behaved as well as anyone could.
hokie
or has it. One thing the cnnsi boards have and remarq needs is
an edit button :)
hokie
done reading them and it was pretty funny seeing how people
responded right after the breakup and Andre and Steffi getting
together. Which brings me to my question. Sara, you really
thought Steffi was making a mistake getting with Agassi. And Amy
you wrote how they only had the wrong things in common. After a
year, has your opinion changed or has it?
cincy
to come through. I get "error, null" each time. What am I doing
wrong?
KMazzaburn
Can we have those links again??( for Michael Bartels,SMG and AA) Thank you so
much.
KMB
Amy Cottrell
paste them together in the address box in your browser. This can
be tricky because every time you try to put your cursor over the
first line, it's treated like a "real" link. Sometimes it's
easier to copy each line separately to a Notepad or Wordpad
document, paste them together there, and copy the splice to the
address box in your browser.
If all else fails, go to
http://www.deja.com/group/alt.fan.steffi-graf and
http://www.deja.com/group/rec.sport.tennis and scroll down to
the bottom of the page where you will see a "search" option.
Just type in "Bartels" (or any other word you desire) and change
the search setting from "recent" to "all" and you should get
some results, unless, of course, Deja News is playing around
with its servers.
Amy Cottrell
>Amy, thanks for those links to the archived messages. I just got
>done reading them and it was pretty funny seeing how people
>responded right after the breakup and Andre and Steffi getting
>together. Which brings me to my question. Sara, you really
>thought Steffi was making a mistake getting with Agassi. And Amy
>you wrote how they only had the wrong things in common. After a
>year, has your opinion changed or has it?
>
otherwise it would have lasted as long as it has. They really
are emotionally involved with each other. At the beginning, it
seemed more like it was/was going to be a "fling" type of
affair, with both of them on the rebound, so to speak. But as
the relationship has progressed, I get the feeling that they
both just want to be "normal" people, but are both "plagued" by
their fame, and this has created a really big bond between them.
They connect on that very basic need for "normal" things.
That said, I still want to know what some of their conversations
are like/about, but that's just because I'm nosy ;-). There are
times when I still wonder if they can understand each other on
some things. For instance, Andre said in that "Tennis" magazine
interview ("The Talented Mr. Agassi") that: "I can't just write
off the first 30 years of my life to tennis. I can't do it. I
haven't, and I never would. It's not by choice. It's a
manifestation of who I am." That sounds like the exact opposite
of Steffi, who has also said she has a problem understanding
players who don't/didn't fulfill their potential. Since they
don't talk much about tennis, I guess this isn't a big "dividing
issue," but tennis was and is still a big part of their lives,
no matter what.
cincy
beginning. I wasn't able to log on to remarq to participate,
which drove me crazy, but I read all the back and forth between
you and Sara (and some others I think). I think you all got a
little deep in the psychology of Andre and Steffi's motives for
being together.
I could never understand why you thought the whole thing was just
a "fling." I've never thought that. From the beginning I thought
Steffi and Andre connected on some level. At first I thought it
was because Andre always seemed so "needy" to me and Steffi
seemed to be nourishing and a giver. I thought perhaps he needed
attention and she needed to give attention to someone. I don't
know if I still think that now. I really don't know what the
connection is exactly, but it's obvious to me that they are
deeply in love.
I've always been puzzled by people who call the relationship
strange. Is it because they both seem so opposite? Because I
don't think they are all that opposite. They both seem to be
caring, loving people. Of course, Andre is outgoing and Steffi is
(seems to be) an introvert. But that's only what we know on the
surface. Sometimes, when I see pictures/film of Andre at a
function, he seems a bit shy to me. It always seems that he's
making himself do what he's doing. On the other hand, Steffi
seems more relaxed at functions. Of course, we only see pictures.
At any rate, after all these two have gone through in the last
year, with the media and the intrusion into their lives, they
seem to be even closer. In the last couple of interviews I've
seen of Andre (HBO and CNN) he just glowed and smiled and
handlesd quedtions about the relationship quite well.
Another thing that made me happy was that, even after Martina N.
called Steffi a "groupie" and after that story in Sports
Illustrated during Wimbledon saying the same thing, Steffi is
still traveling with Andre, sitting in the stands and supporting
him. If she had a problem with doing these things, she could
easily stop it. Apparently she's enjoying herself.
I'm going to the tournament in Cincinnati on Tuesday and Sunday.
I hope I see both of them there. Hopefully, Andre will do better
and I'll get to see him play.
2infinity
this relationship started and I really was not able to see or
take part in any discussion with any of our fellow Grafans about
that surprising turn of events that much.And Hokie is right.Its
pretty funny reading all those initial reaction about AA and
SG.I was able to lurk on CNNSI board at that time and as far as
I know, that is the one and only time I've seen Grafans argued
rather "loudly" against each other.A rare thing considering how
cohesive Grafans can get.
Anyway,thanks again for the link!
Sara Goswami
"hokie" <tharrell...@beldar.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:0b61c38c...@usw-ex0103-018.remarq.com...
> Amy, thanks for those links to the archived messages. I just got
> done reading them and it was pretty funny seeing how people
> responded right after the breakup and Andre and Steffi getting
> together. Which brings me to my question. Sara, you really
> thought Steffi was making a mistake getting with Agassi. And Amy
> you wrote how they only had the wrong things in common. After a
> year, has your opinion changed or has it?
Well, the relationship has certainly lasted longer than I'd have thought!
I'd never paid much attention to Andre, not until he hooked up with Steffi,
anyway. In the few months that I have been following his career, I've come
to realise how fragile he can be, how easily discouraged, almost childlike
in his need for encouragement and nurturing. I can see why a woman would
feel the instinct to protect him, to shield him from his own self-doubts. In
that sense, I can see why Steffi would want to devote her life to him.
However, I am still not very sure why Andre took an interest in Steffi to
begin with. I wouldn't have thought that she is his type. I guess I don't
know anything about the "real" Andre Agassi, and not nearly enough about the
"real" Steffi Graf, so that probably explains my puzzlement.
Sara
irma
thought that the Steffi and Michael relationship was all fake.
Of course I heard about the quote from Peter Graf , but I don`t
think he ment that serious and even the spiegel who were trying
everything in their power to ruin Steffi in the whole tax affair
said that he only said that because he wanted Steffi for
himself.
And if it was all fake who then gave Steffi the red spot in her
neck during wimbledon 96?LOL
hokie
it odd that a woman would want to all the spend time she can
with the man she loves? Isn't that how it usually works in
relationships? And I don't know the "real" Andre Agassi or the
"real" Steffi Graf, but from reading in-depth articles I think
they are both philosophical seekers who are caring towards
others. Perhaps that is what Andre saw in her beyond the
physical attraction.
Irma, people like to make a scandal when usually there isn't one
so that is probably why some speculated on whether the
relationship was fake or not.
John Oliveira
>I am reading the old links now and I wonder why some people
>thought that the Steffi and Michael relationship was all fake.
>Of course I heard about the quote from Peter Graf , but I don`t
>think he ment that serious and even the spiegel who were trying
>everything in their power to ruin Steffi in the whole tax affair
>said that he only said that because he wanted Steffi for
>himself.
Peter said he fixed up Steffi with Michael Bartels because he
wanted her for himself? Really. Also, why did some people
presume Steffi would become so vulnerable on court if she had a
serious boyfriend?
>And if it was all fake who then gave Steffi the red spot in her
>neck during wimbledon 96?LOL
There a pic where you can see the hickey at:
http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ap/oth/1995/oth/ten/arts/070296/738
3ten.html
irma
said that. According to the spiegel he made the comment because
he wanted that everybody knew that he had everything under
control.
and about Steffi becomming vulnerable when she would have a
serious boyfriend.
Steffi lost in the first round of the masters against Lori Mc
Neal just before she and Michael went on a holiday.
It was her first lose before a quarterfinal since 1985.
so they were right.
irma
Neal that I removed all my Steffi posters but the case was that
above my bed I had a poster from Andre and that was the only one
I kept there.
hokie
had to be some other reasons as well.
Sara Goswami
"hokie" <tharrell...@beldar.com.invalid> wrote in message
> Sarah, I don't think Steffi has devoted her life to him.
I do think that Steffi is putting a considerable amount of energy and effort
into this relationship. She travels with him, watches his matches, spends as
much time with him as she possibly can, just tries to be there for him. I
call that "devoting her life". If that expression bothers you, then choose a
phrase that is more acceptable. I am not saying that she is a "groupie" as
some have suggested, but I do think that she is trying very hard to do all
the right things and make this relationship work (which, to my mind, is a
perfectly legitimate occupation).
> Why is
> it odd that a woman would want to all the spend time she can
> with the man she loves? Isn't that how it usually works in
> relationships?
I didn't say that what she is doing is odd. I think it is totally normal for
a woman to want to spend as much time with her man as possible, and seeing
that she is retired, and Andre is still playing, it is only natural that she
hits the road with him. I'm glad that all the criticism about how she
doesn't have a life of her own isn't deterring her. She is committed to the
success of the relationship and she's doing what she thinks is necessary to
nurture the relationship, criticism of her methods notwithstanding. That's a
good sign.
> And I don't know the "real" Andre Agassi or the
> "real" Steffi Graf, but from reading in-depth articles I think
> they are both philosophical seekers who are caring towards
> others. Perhaps that is what Andre saw in her beyond the
> physical attraction.
There is no looking past the fact that Steffi and Andre have handled their
careers in very different ways. Steffi has been 100% committed to the game
at all times. She's played through physical and emotional pain, she has
always been willing to work her butt off, she has given the game the first
30 years of her life. Andre's commitment to the game has been coming and
going. He has taken long breaks to "explore other avenues", as he puts it,
and until very recently, he didn't seem very keen on maximising his talent
and going after every title he can get his hands on. These may look like
superficial differences to you; to me they look like fundamental differences
in their attitude to life. Of course, they seem very happy together, so I
might be reading entirely too much into their attitudes to their games and
careers, and they might have a lot of other things in common, but to me,
they look like two very different kinds of people.
hokie
relationship. When you said she was devoting her whole life to
him I took it as an insult to her, but your reply shows that you
didn't mean it that way. And you didn't say it was odd that she
is spending time with him, but some of the media makes it sound
that way like because she is so accomplished it doesn't make
sense for her to be "following" him around. Their attitudes
about tennis are different, but to me that doesn't make them
different people. The way I see it is Steffi was very driven and
passionate about making the best of her tennis career. Andre, on
the other hand, is passionate to whatever he puts his mind to
but that isn't always tennis. I think the Steffi now realizes
that there is more to life than a game and at times she took it
too seriously- she has said this recently.
Amy Cottrell
>I'm going to the tournament in Cincinnati on Tuesday and Sunday.
>I hope I see both of them there. Hopefully, Andre will do better
>and I'll get to see him play.
>
can see you. You could get a really big banner that says: "Hello
to all my internet friends!!!" Or paint your face purple to
match the court's color. Or you could run naked across the court
during Andre's match ;-). Ooops. I should have warned Wolfie
that a word like "naked" would appear in this post. Hopefully,
he didn't faint.
cincy
really good idea. Watch for me. I think I'll probably do it at
end of the match because I don't want to be thrown out and not
get to see it.
I couldn't possibly paint my face purple though. That would be
very bad for my skin.
cincy
the detriment of her personal life. I think she realizes this
now. She has never really "lived" any life but tennis. She's
always been taken care of and now she's traveling with Andre and
looking after him. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. She's
in love. Where else would she want to be but with the man she
loves? Besides, if she's not going to travel with him, why have a
relationship?
On the other hand, Andre was never totally devoted to tennis. Not
even when he was very young. In fact, according to him, when he
was very young he did more drinking, drugging and cruising the
Strip than tennis. He was closer to a juvenile delinquent than a
great tennis player. I don't fault him for his lapses. At least
he has lived life.
Now, Andre wants to spend the last couple of years of his tennis
life doing as well as he can and Steffi chooses to devote her
life after retirement to him. I see nothing wrong with that.
Also, I think they are much more alike than people think.
Everybody is looking only on the surface of this relationship.
Nobody is looking beneath, into the hearts of these two people.
There is much more to Andre and Steffi than we read about in
those "in depth" interviews (which are not "in depth" at all).
Remember, most celebrities only let the public know what they
want the public to know. If Steffi and Andre really, truly wanted
us to know more about them, they would give their real friends
permission to talk publicly about the relationship.
Lastly, Sara, I don't understand why you don't understand how
Andre could be attracted to Steffi. Why wouldn't he? According to
people who have bothered to get to know her, she's very smart and
funny. I also think she's very pretty (much prettier than her
photos) and she's sexy too. From what I understand, Andre is not
the only player on the tour to have been attracted to her.
Sara Goswami
"cincy" <selewis...@gateway.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:05af6231...@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com...
> Lastly, Sara, I don't understand why you don't understand how
> Andre could be attracted to Steffi. Why wouldn't he? According to
> people who have bothered to get to know her, she's very smart and
> funny. I also think she's very pretty (much prettier than her
> photos) and she's sexy too. From what I understand, Andre is not
> the only player on the tour to have been attracted to her.
She is also introverted and she used to be singleminded in her dedication to
tennis (something that Andre never *wanted* to be). She reads a lot, and as
Sally Jenkins pointed out in that Tennis Magazine article, she reads the
kind of books that would be too "heavy" for Andre. She isn't a conventional
beauty. She is *very* uncomfortable in front of cameras. I'd have expected
Andre to go for a more mainstream, "hollywood" kind of person.
Sara
cincy
shy and serious than most people seem to believe. If he was only
interested in the "Hollywood-type" as you say, then he would be
spending all his free time at the Playboy mansion playing with
the bunnies. Andre could have just about any woman in the world
but he apparently very much wanted Steffi.
As for reading "heavy" books . . . no matter what books Steffi
reads, she still did not go to school much after the age of 13
and neither did Andre. I'm sure Steffi is very intelligent but I
doubt very much if she is an intellectual. Trust me, reading
Herman Hesse does not make you more intelligent than someone who
hadn't read him!! (By the way, in that Tennis Magazine article,
the Siddhartha is sitting on the counter, but Steffi picks up a
magazine to read by the pool. Just wanted to point that out.)
Andre is much smarter than he is given credit for. The man is not
the least bit dumb. Remember, Steffi is the one who had the tax
problems because she didn't pay attention, not Andre. Andre has
always surrounded himself with smart people and Steffi learned
the hard way to do the same.
I just feel Andre loves Steffi and she loves him for a lot of
reasons that have nothing to do with glamor or intellect. It's
much deeper than that.
Sara Goswami
"cincy" <selewis...@gateway.net.invalid> wrote in message
> I really think you have Andre all wrong. I think he's a lot more
> shy and serious than most people seem to believe.
I've seen no evidence of that.
> If he was only
> interested in the "Hollywood-type" as you say, then he would be
> spending all his free time at the Playboy mansion playing with
> the bunnies. Andre could have just about any woman in the world
> but he apparently very much wanted Steffi.
Oh please! His wife used to be a hollywood type. He was actually seeing
Barbra Streisand for a while! There's no need to exaggerate that much in
order to make my point look silly. It is not as if I'm making wild
accusations about him.
> As for reading "heavy" books . . . no matter what books Steffi
> reads, she still did not go to school much after the age of 13
> and neither did Andre. I'm sure Steffi is very intelligent but I
> doubt very much if she is an intellectual. Trust me, reading
> Herman Hesse does not make you more intelligent than someone who
> hadn't read him!! (By the way, in that Tennis Magazine article,
> the Siddhartha is sitting on the counter, but Steffi picks up a
> magazine to read by the pool. Just wanted to point that out.)
Steffi at least makes an attempt to get some "culture". Andre apparently
does not dig that kind of thing. I'd have thought that people who do not try
to get some "culture" think that the ones who do are pretentious and
"stuck-up". I'd also have thought that those who do try to get some
"culture" think that the ones who don't are "dimbulbs" and "plebeian". Even
if it is not *that* divisive, it still means that the two of them have very
different tastes and pastimes. Hardly common ground.
> Andre is much smarter than he is given credit for. The man is not
> the least bit dumb. Remember, Steffi is the one who had the tax
> problems because she didn't pay attention, not Andre.
So what? Pete Sampras, Stefan Edberg, Jim Courier, Martina Hingis et al have
not had tax problems either. Does that prove that they are smart, or at
least smarter than Steffi?
> Andre has
> always surrounded himself with smart people and Steffi learned
> the hard way to do the same.
And Steffi's troubles were brought on her by her *father*. I guess she had a
choice about who her father would be? I guess she knew in advance that her
dad might evade taxes, and should have taken steps to keep him out of her
affairs?
> I just feel Andre loves Steffi and she loves him for a lot of
> reasons that have nothing to do with glamor or intellect. It's
> much deeper than that.
People don't just fall in love for no rhyme or reason. They have to find
something attractive in each other, some common ground. In the case of
Steffi and Andre, it might have nothing to do with glamour or intellect, but
I can't see what that common ground is. Just because I can't see it doesn't
mean that the common ground does not exist, but I think I am allowed to be
puzzled.
Sara
hokie
both and I think they are both smart for picking each other so
there :)
cincy
It's actually silly anyway. None of us know either of these
people personally so we can't even imagine how and why they feel
what they feel for each other. The fact that Steffi looks very
happy is enough for me.
irma
that there is a Michael Bartels on the german contact thread.
Could it be him?