Who instructed who?
Ryan Allen
training with his master Yoda. He is then teamed up with Qui-Gon Jinn as a
kind of equivilent to when a person graduates from a police academy as is
assigned to a veteran to be shown the ropes so to speak. This would apply
that Qui-Gon Jinn may give Obi Wan some advice on madders, but Obi Wan
himself has been trained by the best, something I believe Qui-Gon Jinn
understands. I think this will be Obi Wan's first jedi-assignment.
This is all my prethoughts on the madder. I hope it's true. Or else the Star
Wars story will have a hole that any fan will pick up on and the story will
not seem believeable.
Ryan
Dave
jump to any conclusions but has George Lucas seen "The Empire Strikes
Back"? please proceed at spoiler risks...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
i ask this because in that movie Obi-Wan Kenobi clearly states Yoda
instructed him and was his master. "You will go to the Dagobah system,
there you will be instructed by the Jedi master who instructed me, Yoda"
is to the effect of what Obi-Wan first says to Luke. then Yoda starts
complaining about Luke's attitude and Obi-Wan chimes in with how he was
much the same way when Yoda instructed him.
so how come Yoda is not Obi-Wan's master in "The Phantom Menace"?
instead we have Qui-Gon Jinn instructing him. and George Lucas states
in Premier magazine that Obi-Wan begins the movie as an apprentice and
by the end becomes a full fledged Jedi knight. so at what part does
Yoda instruct him? people may argue that Yoda completes his training
after Qui-Gon Jinn is killed, but at this point in the film Obi-Wan is a
full fledged Jedi knight. perhaps Yoda began Obi-Wan's training and
Qui-Gon is completing it? i'm totally confused. can anyone help?
thanks
Dave
drain you of your sanity
face the thing that should not be
me
doesn't mean he is trained by him. It probably his first assignment after
being trained. He is a rookie Jedi who is teamed with a more experienced
knight. Think of it like an engineer - you train in school, then graduate,
then serve as an engineer in training working on real assignements, after an
apprentice period you are granted full status. The people you work with are
not your teachers, but are coworkers who evaluate your work as a novice. Or
how about a doctor, who completes school, and then spends time as an intern
before being granted full status. In both cases your are trained but
inexperienced, and you have real duties and responsibilities - you are
teamed with more experienced people so you can learn to apply your
training...
I bet Obi Wan is a fully trained Jedi who has to gain practical experience
before he is knighted ( (maybe that's what this Padawan title we've heard
refers to),... Working with Qui-Gon Jinn is his first assignement as a
rookie...Making Qui-Gon his mentor, not his trainer.
Maybe there are multiple levels of Jedi. For example in the old days when
our world had knights, there were large armies of trained warriors, but only
a few at the rank of Knight. Maybe not every Jedi becomes a knight...Just
like not every Jedi Knight becomes a master. Maybe, like our own past,
people get knighted for extrordinary achievement - so perhaps Obi Wan does
something amazing in the movie and is made a knight in recognition of his
action...
Just me thoughts...
And finally the nitpicker in me can't let this go:
>i ask this because in that movie Obi-Wan Kenobi clearly states Yoda
>instructed him and was his master. "You will go to the Dagobah system,
>there you will be instructed by the Jedi master who instructed me, Yoda"
The quote is: "You will go to the Dagobah System...There you will learn
from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me"
sma...@my-dejanews.com
George Lucas himself. Go read the latest issue of Premiere magazine if you
don't believe me.
> He is teamed with him, yes, but that
> doesn't mean he is trained by him. It probably his first assignment after
> being trained.
He is still an apprentice at the beginning of Episode I.
> He is a rookie Jedi who is teamed with a more experienced
> knight. Think of it like an engineer - you train in school, then graduate,
> then serve as an engineer in training working on real assignements, after an
> apprentice period you are granted full status. The people you work with are
> not your teachers, but are coworkers who evaluate your work as a novice.
In this case Obi-Wan is the apprentice and his master is Qui-Gon.
> Or
> how about a doctor, who completes school, and then spends time as an intern
> before being granted full status. In both cases your are trained but
> inexperienced, and you have real duties and responsibilities - you are
> teamed with more experienced people so you can learn to apply your
> training...
>
> I bet Obi Wan is a fully trained Jedi who has to gain practical experience
> before he is knighted ( (maybe that's what this Padawan title we've heard
> refers to),... Working with Qui-Gon Jinn is his first assignement as a
> rookie...Making Qui-Gon his mentor, not his trainer.
You will see...
> Maybe there are multiple levels of Jedi. For example in the old days when
> our world had knights, there were large armies of trained warriors, but only
> a few at the rank of Knight. Maybe not every Jedi becomes a knight...Just
> like not every Jedi Knight becomes a master. Maybe, like our own past,
> people get knighted for extrordinary achievement - so perhaps Obi Wan does
> something amazing in the movie and is made a knight in recognition of his
> action...
>
> Just me thoughts...
That's all they are- just thoughts.
> And finally the nitpicker in me can't let this go:
>
> >i ask this because in that movie Obi-Wan Kenobi clearly states Yoda
> >instructed him and was his master. "You will go to the Dagobah system,
> >there you will be instructed by the Jedi master who instructed me, Yoda"
>
> The quote is: "You will go to the Dagobah System...There you will learn
> from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me"
Lucas can change his mind, can't he?
---------
"Do you realize it's snowing in my room, goddammit!"
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sma...@my-dejanews.com
inpheaux skifyre
Dave <night...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3723EDFD...@earthlink.net...
| even though i haven't seen "The Phantom Menace" yet and i do not want to
| jump to any conclusions but has George Lucas seen "The Empire Strikes
| Back"? please proceed at spoiler risks...
|
|
| S
|
|
| P
|
|
| O
|
|
| I
|
|
| L
|
|
| E
|
|
| R
|
|
|
| instructed him and was his master. "You will go to the Dagobah system,
| there you will be instructed by the Jedi master who instructed me, Yoda"
| complaining about Luke's attitude and Obi-Wan chimes in with how he was
| much the same way when Yoda instructed him.
|
| so how come Yoda is not Obi-Wan's master in "The Phantom Menace"?
| instead we have Qui-Gon Jinn instructing him. and George Lucas states
| in Premier magazine that Obi-Wan begins the movie as an apprentice and
| by the end becomes a full fledged Jedi knight. so at what part does
| Yoda instruct him? people may argue that Yoda completes his training
| after Qui-Gon Jinn is killed, but at this point in the film Obi-Wan is a
| full fledged Jedi knight. perhaps Yoda began Obi-Wan's training and
| Qui-Gon is completing it? i'm totally confused. can anyone help?
| thanks
i *still* say that its a mirror of the original trilogy.. but, DAMNIT! NO
ONE LISTENS!
for instance, in the original trilogy, luke is informally taught in the ways
of the force by ben. there he learns basic stuff like how to give up your
senses and go with what you feel.. then, ben's not there, and he sends luke
off for formal training with yoda..
now, im guessing here that it'll be the same thing... a jedi apprentice
first goes in to get formal initial training with yoda, and then actually
gets practice in the field with his mentor qui-gon..
what we're really arguing here is the difference between a teacher and a
mentor.. yoda was both ben and luke's teacher, while qui-gon was ben's
mentor, as ben was luke's mentor....
hopefully someone will actually listen to me this time..
--
inpheaux skifyre {remove no-spam to email}
"like deranged squirrels attacking an amp"
{site}[http://surf.to/inpheaux]
{icq}[1980144]{line 4/4}[end]
Chris Pastor
me <m...@here.com> wrote in message
news:0mUU2.1896$27.8...@typhoon.mbnet.mb.ca...
> Who says Qui-Gon instructs Obi-Wan? He is teamed with him, yes, but that
> doesn't mean he is trained by him. It probably his first assignment after
> knight. Think of it like an engineer - you train in school, then
graduate,
> then serve as an engineer in training working on real assignements, after
an
> apprentice period you are granted full status. The people you work with
are
> not your teachers, but are coworkers who evaluate your work as a novice.
> how about a doctor, who completes school, and then spends time as an
intern
> before being granted full status. In both cases your are trained but
> inexperienced, and you have real duties and responsibilities - you are
> teamed with more experienced people so you can learn to apply your
> training...
>
> I bet Obi Wan is a fully trained Jedi who has to gain practical experience
> before he is knighted ( (maybe that's what this Padawan title we've heard
> refers to),... Working with Qui-Gon Jinn is his first assignement as a
> rookie...Making Qui-Gon his mentor, not his trainer.
>
> our world had knights, there were large armies of trained warriors, but
only
> a few at the rank of Knight. Maybe not every Jedi becomes a knight...Just
> like not every Jedi Knight becomes a master. Maybe, like our own past,
> people get knighted for extrordinary achievement - so perhaps Obi Wan does
> something amazing in the movie and is made a knight in recognition of his
> action...
I'm surprised that half the people here haven't checked out the official
site lately...If you look here
http://starwars.com/characters/obi_wan/
or here
http://starwars.com/characters/qui_gon/
You'll find that officially Obi-Wan IS Qui-Gon's apprentice and "is not a
Jedi yet, but his training is almost complete."
He is "Trained by Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn." I'm afraid Lucas either
changed his mind about Yoda, or as it's been suggested here lately, Yoda had
some small part in Obi-Wan's instruction. I imagine the novel will have
something about Yoda's role, but probably not the movie.
C.P.
Matt
Chris Pastor wrote:
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
infact if the notion of Qui-Gon's death holds true, maybe Obi-Wan's training is
competed by Yoda in EP2...... ?
-Matt
Tamthas Velykk
which he said he had just signed for EP2...
Matt <tra...@globalcenter.net> a écrit dans le message :
37266A17...@globalcenter.net...
Michael Cox
sma...@my-dejanews.com
Yeah, I think most people forget that Obi-Wan was killed in Episode IV, and
yet he still appeared in V and VI.
inpheaux skifyre
inpheaux skifyre <inph...@no-spam.mindless.com> wrote in message
news:aU5V2.1559$yH6....@newse3.tampabay.rr.com...
|
| i *still* say that its a mirror of the original trilogy.. but, DAMNIT! NO
| ONE LISTENS!
arghhh.. i hate this...
richard
hmm...
Tamthas Velykk <patrick....@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:_vEV2.2989$7d2.1...@weber.videotron.net...
> Well I don't believe he dies because I saw an interview with Liam Neeson
in
> which he said he had just signed for EP2...
Wes Hutchings
alt.fan.trenchcoat-mafia is up and running and you wouldn't believe how many
posts I saw there. NONE.
wes
----------
In article <7g7b19$4e5$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "richard"
Dave
Tamthas Velykk wrote:
> Well I don't believe he dies because I saw an interview with Liam Neeson in
> which he said he had just signed for EP2...
believe what you want. come May 19th you will be proved wrong. there is even a
track on the soundtrack that reads "Qui-Gonn's Funeral". how much more proof do
you need? the only way he is coming back is in the form of a spirit
inpheaux skifyre
Tamthas Velykk <patrick....@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:_vEV2.2989$7d2.1...@weber.videotron.net...
in
| which he said he had just signed for EP2...
death doesnt keep a jedi down..
hey, ben died in ANH, and he was around for ESB *and* RotJ..
Chris Pastor
> Tamthas Velykk wrote:
>
> > Well I don't believe he dies because I saw an interview with Liam Neeson
in
> > which he said he had just signed for EP2...
>
even a
> track on the soundtrack that reads "Qui-Gonn's Funeral". how much more
proof do
> you need? the only way he is coming back is in the form of a spirit
>
>
> Dave
There's also a track that reads Qui-Gon's Noble End. If you want to find
out exactly how he dies and don't want to wait a week for the book and don't
mind spoilers, go to T-bone Fender's site. He has the passage from the book
where Qui-Gon dies at his site.
C.P.
Chris Pastor
> There's also a track that reads Qui-Gon's Noble End. If you want to find
> out exactly how he dies and don't want to wait a week for the book and
don't
> mind spoilers, go to T-bone Fender's site. He has the passage from the
book
> where Qui-Gon dies at his site.
>
> C.P.
>
>
among other major spoilers.
C.P.
Jane Lumley
<patrick....@videotron.ca> writes
>Well I don't believe he dies because I saw an interview with Liam Neeson in
>which he said he had just signed for EP2...
But he could be a ghostly, Force-filled presence in ep 2, like Alec
Guinness in Eps 4-6. I bet he dies.
Have you lot seen the Time magazine article, btw?
--
Jane Lumley
Matt
So my question is this:
In Episode one, we see Ob1 croak, and come back to guide young luke skywalker.
If in fact the same situation occurs in episode 1 w/ Qui-Gonn dying and becoming
the same ghost type mentor to young ob-1, what became of Qui-Gonn in later
episodes?
does the ghost pass on when his pupil dies?
or is it his choice whether he sticks around or not?
will there be a new scenes in ep4-6 re-re-release with QG in them as a ghost?
richard
luke anymore after awhile. so that's probably what happens... they can only
have contact with the physical world for song before they have to move on...
Matt <tra...@globalcenter.net> wrote in message
news:3728C7A3...@globalcenter.net...
Daniell Negron
This debate is simple to resolve. Qui Gon-Jinn may have begun training Obi Wan,
but since he dies in Episode I, Yoda continues to show the ways of the force to
Ben. Remember, Obi Wan is not a Jedi yet in this film, the same with Luke in the
first trilogy, did not become a Jedi until Episode VI.
History definitly repeats itself in this case since the person who introduced the
Force to Luke was Obi Wan Kenobi before he died and later Yoda steps in
reluctantly to train young Luke.
Also, about Liam Neeson signing on for EPII, he will come back and play a spirit
form of Qui Gon Jinn as a mentor to Obi Wan Kenobi.
That is all for now, May the Force be with you all...
sma...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <0mUU2.1896$27.8...@typhoon.mbnet.mb.ca>,
> "me" <m...@here.com> wrote:
> > Who says Qui-Gon instructs Obi-Wan?
>
> George Lucas himself. Go read the latest issue of Premiere magazine if you
> don't believe me.
>
> > He is teamed with him, yes, but that
> > doesn't mean he is trained by him. It probably his first assignment after
> > being trained.
>
> He is still an apprentice at the beginning of Episode I.
>
> > He is a rookie Jedi who is teamed with a more experienced
> > knight. Think of it like an engineer - you train in school, then graduate,
> > then serve as an engineer in training working on real assignements, after an
> > apprentice period you are granted full status. The people you work with are
> > not your teachers, but are coworkers who evaluate your work as a novice.
>
> In this case Obi-Wan is the apprentice and his master is Qui-Gon.
>
> > Or
> > how about a doctor, who completes school, and then spends time as an intern
> > before being granted full status. In both cases your are trained but
> > inexperienced, and you have real duties and responsibilities - you are
> > teamed with more experienced people so you can learn to apply your
> > training...
> >
> > I bet Obi Wan is a fully trained Jedi who has to gain practical experience
> > before he is knighted ( (maybe that's what this Padawan title we've heard
> > refers to),... Working with Qui-Gon Jinn is his first assignement as a
> > rookie...Making Qui-Gon his mentor, not his trainer.
>
> You will see...
>
> > Maybe there are multiple levels of Jedi. For example in the old days when
> > our world had knights, there were large armies of trained warriors, but only
> > a few at the rank of Knight. Maybe not every Jedi becomes a knight...Just
> > like not every Jedi Knight becomes a master. Maybe, like our own past,
> > people get knighted for extrordinary achievement - so perhaps Obi Wan does
> > something amazing in the movie and is made a knight in recognition of his
> > action...
> >
> > Just me thoughts...
>
> That's all they are- just thoughts.
>
> > And finally the nitpicker in me can't let this go:
> >
> > >i ask this because in that movie Obi-Wan Kenobi clearly states Yoda
> > >instructed him and was his master. "You will go to the Dagobah system,
> > >there you will be instructed by the Jedi master who instructed me, Yoda"
> >
> > The quote is: "You will go to the Dagobah System...There you will learn
> > from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me"
>
> Lucas can change his mind, can't he?
>