Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.

Dismiss

Xandar's Beefs #1

5 views

Skip to first unread message

Xandar

unread,

Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00

Here's the first in a continuing series of problems or discrepencies I've
had with our favorite pair of Trilogies...

1) If Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted to hide Vader's son from the clutches of the
most powerful and evil individuals in the Universe... Why did they a) Keep
his last name "Skywalker" and b) Place him on the same home planet that
Anakin was from? A sparsely populated planet, surely the Skywalker name
would carry some clout on Tattooine, no? Doesn't anyone think this would
bring un-needed attention to Luke? (A blonde human and great pilot who just
so happens to carry the same name of a pod-race legend, later to be a JEDI
and WAR HERO??!)

2) In TPM, Obi-Wan utters the line "Looks like we picked up another pathetic
life form." Pathetic life form? Was Lucas smoking crack when he wrote this?
Should this phrase even be in a Jedi's vocabulary? Isn't all life sacred,
and we're all "luminous beings" and everthing? I can't see a Jedi trained
since birth in the arts of peace and acceptance EVER saying this about a
poor young slave boy that he just met. This is about as rediculous as Return
of the Jedi almost being called "Revenge of the Jedi" -- I don't think
"revenge" is the path to the light side, do you?

3) Why wouldn't Watto take Republic Credits? Even if they're not acceptable
currency... EVERYBODY has a price. Since it's a valid form of currency in
most of the civilized universe, and Watto's a savvy trader, wouldn't he
still accept Qui-Gon's money, but with an inflated premium, or exaggerated
exchange rate? I mean, he'd certainly be able to convert it, at some
expense. Even if not, couldn't Qui-Gon find SOMEBODY willing to do this?
Especially with his Jedi mind trick--which he's shown he has no scruples in
using to CHEAT in gambling. Why not persuade someone to take the credits in
a FAIR exchange? In Star Wars, Han was getting ready to pay Jabba with the
credits he received for safely delivering Luke and Leia. Would Jabba have
refused? This seems a bit of a silly oversite to try and tack on an extra 45
minutes onto our heroes' layover on the desert planet. How convenient...

Keep em honest,
XANDAR

Patrice Jasmin-Tremblay

unread,

Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00

Xandar, my friend you are completly right an all counts. I agree with
everything that you wrote ... but bare in mind : It's only a movie! It is a
story. A tale. It doesn't have to make sense in regards of our reality. Star
Wars, is mythology re-visited thru the eye of an american cinematographer.
That is the reason for its worldly acceptense. Thru STAR WARS, you visit the
greek philosophers the like of Plato or Aristote. You see the structure of
the roman catholic church during the middle ages. You fell the mystique of
the japanese Samuri and eastern philosophies ... STAR WARS is not about
reality, it has a certain spirituality ... AND there movies!

Peace

"Xandar" <xan...@tanq.com> a écrit dans le message news:
8r8n1h$rdk$1...@news.chorus.net...

Wes Hutchings

unread,

Oct 1, 2000, 9:40:10 PM10/1/00

In article <8r8n1h$rdk$1...@news.chorus.net>,

"Xandar" <xan...@tanq.com> wrote:
> Here's the first in a continuing series of problems or
discrepencies I've
> had with our favorite pair of Trilogies...
>
> 1) If Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted to hide Vader's son from the
clutches of the
> most powerful and evil individuals in the Universe... Why did they
a) Keep
> his last name "Skywalker"

To hide in plain site and let's not forget, he's likely to think his kids
and wife died somewhere along the line.

>and b) Place him on the same home planet that
> Anakin was from?

If Anakin has bad memories from childhood there and then we find
his mother dies there, then it'd probably make it a nice " Last Place
He'd Look " place.

> A sparsely populated planet, surely the Skywalker name
> would carry some clout on Tattooine, no?

The name of a slave?

> Doesn't anyone think this would
> bring un-needed attention to Luke?

It might, but as the story went, it didn't and I'm sure some of the
above reasons are why.

> (A blonde human and great pilot who just
> so happens to carry the same name of a pod-race legend, later
to be a JEDI
> and WAR HERO??!)

32 years after the event and 20 years after a galactic war changes
the political structure and kills off the galaxies only defenders?
I think people will have a little much on their minds to remember
that far back.
Also many of the people at the pod race weren't even from
Tatooine, they came there just for the race.

>
> 2) In TPM, Obi-Wan utters the line "Looks like we picked up
another pathetic
> life form." Pathetic life form? Was Lucas smoking crack when he
wrote this?

It was a joke. Obi-Wan was being cutesy and Qui-Gon gave him
the stearn, "not funny" look.

> Should this phrase even be in a Jedi's vocabulary? Isn't all life
sacred,
> and we're all "luminous beings" and everthing? I can't see a Jedi
trained
> since birth in the arts of peace and acceptance EVER saying this
about a
> poor young slave boy that he just met.

At the time it was said he hadn't met Anakin and had no idea who
Qui-Gon was going after. It was a joke aimed at Qui-Gon, not
Anakin, whom he hadn't even met.

> This is about as rediculous as Return
> of the Jedi almost being called "Revenge of the Jedi" -- I don't
think
> "revenge" is the path to the light side, do you?

That was a bit of misdirection. If you look at the film you can see
that Revenge would never fit as a title in any sense of the word.
It has been stated that it was a marketing tool to prevent people
copying and selling merchandise prior to release. without consent.

Yes, but as he doesn't have anywhere to go but the Hutts to
exchange them, then perhaps he thought it was not enough
money to be worth his while.
They are after all on the rim.

> I mean, he'd certainly be able to convert it, at some
> expense. Even if not, couldn't Qui-Gon find SOMEBODY willing to
do this?

Apparently not.

> Especially with his Jedi mind trick--which he's shown he has no
scruples in
> using to CHEAT in gambling.

The dice were loaded. What is the penalty for being a better
cheater in a loaded game?

> Why not persuade someone to take the credits in
> a FAIR exchange?

Ok, whom? The hutts would be the only person I could imagine
even trying it and tey were trying to avoid them.

>In Star Wars, Han was getting ready to pay Jabba with the
> credits he received for safely delivering Luke and Leia. Would
Jabba have
> refused?

No, but then Han was paying off in a galactic currency that was
established in a galaxy controlled by the Empire.

> This seems a bit of a silly oversite to try and tack on an extra 45
> minutes onto our heroes' layover on the desert planet. How
convenient...

The podrace occurs at around the midpoint of the film.
I'm pretty sure they take longer than 20 minutes to get to Tatooine
and the time spent there deals with more than just getting off the
planet.

>
> Keep em honest,
> XANDAR
>
>

Show they're dishonest.
wes

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Patricia Smith

unread,

Oct 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/2/00

> 1) If Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted to hide Vader's son from the clutches of the
> most powerful and evil individuals in the Universe... Why did they a) Keep

> his last name "Skywalker" and b) Place him on the same home planet that
> Anakin was from? A sparsely populated planet, surely the Skywalker name
> would carry some clout on Tattooine, no? Doesn't anyone think this would
> bring un-needed attention to Luke? (A blonde human and great pilot who

just > so happens to carry the same name of a pod-race legend, later to be a
JEDI
> and WAR HERO??!)

Wes answered Xandar's beefs very well (I really like the thoroughness of how
you think, Wes), but something else also comes to mind for this one:
The Pod Race and the events surrounding the characters in Episode One took
place in and around Mos Epsa. In ANH, Luke and his aunt and uncle live on a
moisture farm out in the boonies, with the closest port city being, I
believe, Anchorhead, and the nearest large port, Mos Eisley. Now, isn't it
possible that these locations might just be on complete opposite ends of the
planet ? Or at least fairly far away from each other ? If I recall, the
Hutts controlled an entire system, not just Tatooine, so Jabba and the other
Hutts probably could put in an appearance in front of their subjects
whenever it suited them.
Patty

Admiral Marcus Sjöberg

unread,

Oct 2, 2000, 6:32:44 PM10/2/00

On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:03:27 -0500, "Xandar" <xan...@tanq.com> wrote:

>Here's the first in a continuing series of problems or discrepencies I've
>had with our favorite pair of Trilogies...
>

>1) If Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted to hide Vader's son from the clutches of the
>most powerful and evil individuals in the Universe... Why did they a) Keep
>his last name "Skywalker" and b) Place him on the same home planet that
>Anakin was from? A sparsely populated planet, surely the Skywalker name
>would carry some clout on Tattooine, no? Doesn't anyone think this would
>bring un-needed attention to Luke? (A blonde human and great pilot who just
>so happens to carry the same name of a pod-race legend, later to be a JEDI
>and WAR HERO??!)

Nope. Anakin was a slave who happened to win one fluke podrace 40
years ago. And we don't know how close Mos Espa is to Mos Eisley.
We discussed this some month back and came to the conclusion that it
wouldn't be feeisable that someone would find luke,get his lastname
and remember something that happened 40 years ago.

>
>2) In TPM, Obi-Wan utters the line "Looks like we picked up another pathetic
>life form." Pathetic life form? Was Lucas smoking crack when he wrote this?

>Should this phrase even be in a Jedi's vocabulary? Isn't all life sacred,
>and we're all "luminous beings" and everthing? I can't see a Jedi trained
>since birth in the arts of peace and acceptance EVER saying this about a

>poor young slave boy that he just met. This is about as rediculous as Return

>of the Jedi almost being called "Revenge of the Jedi" -- I don't think
>"revenge" is the path to the light side, do you?

Guess why they change the title ?
Obi-wan is just experience typical adolescense boredom.

>
>3) Why wouldn't Watto take Republic Credits? Even if they're not acceptable
>currency... EVERYBODY has a price. Since it's a valid form of currency in

>most of the civilized universe, and Watto's a savvy trader, wouldn't he

>still accept Qui-Gon's money, but with an inflated premium, or exaggerated

>exchange rate? I mean, he'd certainly be able to convert it, at some

>expense. Even if not, couldn't Qui-Gon find SOMEBODY willing to do this?

>Especially with his Jedi mind trick--which he's shown he has no scruples in

>using to CHEAT in gambling. Why not persuade someone to take the credits in
>a FAIR exchange? In Star Wars, Han was getting ready to pay Jabba with the

>credits he received for safely delivering Luke and Leia. Would Jabba have

>refused? This seems a bit of a silly oversite to try and tack on an extra 45

> minutes onto our heroes' layover on the desert planet. How convenient...
>

Watto was a local dealer in the middle of nowhere. To even begin to
find a local place to exchange the money would be a waste of time.
In the time it would take Watto would be losing money on the deal.

Jabba on the other could easily take the credits as he is an
intergalactic businessman .

And If Qui-gon had tried to make several deals across town it would
have raised suspision.

That said:

Welcome to A.F.S !

Please read the faq (http://www.galacticempire.co.uk/faq.htm)
maintained by Palpatine and take a look at the
A.F.S Glossary maintained by Miss V.
(http://www.mordor.ch/velya/afs/afsglossary.htm).

Ooh and just so you'll know. The newsgroup is kinda divied into people
who support the Empire ,
the rebel alliance (http://padawan_paradise.tripod.com/) or they are
Jedi's (http://afs-jedi-academy.tripod.com/), Bounty-hunters,
Smugglers(http://afssmugglersalliance.tripod.com/)
or just ordinary citizens.

The bounty-hunters are currently working on getting their sites up.

Me myself is supporting the Empire. thereby my little title and all.
It's all for fun, But i strongly suggest you join the Empire!
(Hint,hint).

With the Empire you will get to:

Wine and dine in the finest resturant in the universe!
Uphold the order in the Galaxy!
Keep the rebel rabble and smugglers in their place!
Extort and suppress the population for your own personal gain!
Have a cool email address with your...@galacticempire.net !

So do the only right thing !
Join the Empire today!

You can show your alligiance by joining at:
http://www.galacticempire.co.uk

Ask about anything you might like to know.
I and many of the regulars will be glad to help you.

Yours in the service
--------------------------------------------------------------
Admiral Marcus Sjöberg
Commander Viking Squadron A.F.S Galactic Empire
Gerbil in the Service of Miss V
Member of the Jade Fan Club.

Email : admiral...@galacticempire.net
AFS FAQ : http://www.galacticempire.co.uk/faq.htm
AFS Glossary : http://www.mordor.ch/velya/afs/afsglossary.htm
The sum of human knowledge sounds nice but I want more
--------------------------------------------------------------

bob_taylor

unread,

Oct 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/3/00

Admiral Marcus Sjöberg <admiral...@galacticempire.net> wrote in message
news:i32its8msiqan86iv...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:03:27 -0500, "Xandar" <xan...@tanq.com> wrote:
>
> >Here's the first in a continuing series of problems or discrepencies I've
> >had with our favorite pair of Trilogies...
> >
> >1) If Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted to hide Vader's son from the clutches of
the
> >most powerful and evil individuals in the Universe... Why did they a)
Keep
> >his last name "Skywalker" and b) Place him on the same home planet that
> >Anakin was from? A sparsely populated planet, surely the Skywalker name
> >would carry some clout on Tattooine, no? Doesn't anyone think this would
> >bring un-needed attention to Luke? (A blonde human and great pilot who
just
> >so happens to carry the same name of a pod-race legend, later to be a
JEDI
> >and WAR HERO??!)
>

Everyone else has come up with some reason against this beef, but I agree
with Xandar on this one. OK, fair enough Tatooine is sparse, Mos Eisley
could be far from Mos Espa, and a lot of time elapsed between ep 1 and 4.
But if you're gonna hide the son of Vader, why not choose one of the
thousands of planets that you know Vader has never been on? And to make
things worse, you "hide" him with Owen Lars!! whoever Owen is (Obi's
bro/Anakin'sbro?) it's clear that he knew Anakin and Obi wan before the
twins were born.

So to recap, the twins are born and they need to be hidden. One is sent to
Vader's home planet to live with an old acquaintance (possible relative) of
Anakin, under the name Skywalker!
The other is sent to an old war buddy of Anakins. But at least she got a
name change and a different planet.

Perhaps you're all right, mabye it wouldn't have been "easy" to spot Luke on
Tatooine. But it sure would be a hell of a lot harder if he was living on a
planet Vader didn't know, with people Vader know, under a name that Vader
didn't know!! Don't ya think? :o)

Admiral Marcus Sjöberg

unread,

Oct 3, 2000, 7:48:11 PM10/3/00

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:36:36 -0700, "bob_taylor"
<bob_t...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>
>Admiral Marcus Sjöberg <admiral...@galacticempire.net> wrote in message
>news:i32its8msiqan86iv...@4ax.com...

>> On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:03:27 -0500, "Xandar" <xan...@tanq.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Here's the first in a continuing series of problems or discrepencies I've
>> >had with our favorite pair of Trilogies...
>> >
>> >1) If Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted to hide Vader's son from the clutches of
>the
>> >most powerful and evil individuals in the Universe... Why did they a)
>Keep
>> >his last name "Skywalker" and b) Place him on the same home planet that
>> >Anakin was from? A sparsely populated planet, surely the Skywalker name
>> >would carry some clout on Tattooine, no? Doesn't anyone think this would
>> >bring un-needed attention to Luke? (A blonde human and great pilot who
>just
>> >so happens to carry the same name of a pod-race legend, later to be a
>JEDI
>> >and WAR HERO??!)
>>

>Everyone else has come up with some reason against this beef, but I agree
>with Xandar on this one. OK, fair enough Tatooine is sparse, Mos Eisley
>could be far from Mos Espa, and a lot of time elapsed between ep 1 and 4.
>But if you're gonna hide the son of Vader, why not choose one of the
>thousands of planets that you know Vader has never been on? And to make
>things worse, you "hide" him with Owen Lars!! whoever Owen is (Obi's
>bro/Anakin'sbro?) it's clear that he knew Anakin and Obi wan before the
>twins were born.
>
>So to recap, the twins are born and they need to be hidden. One is sent to
>Vader's home planet to live with an old acquaintance (possible relative) of
>Anakin, under the name Skywalker!
>The other is sent to an old war buddy of Anakins. But at least she got a
>name change and a different planet.
>
>Perhaps you're all right, mabye it wouldn't have been "easy" to spot Luke on
>Tatooine. But it sure would be a hell of a lot harder if he was living on a
>planet Vader didn't know, with people Vader know, under a name that Vader
>didn't know!! Don't ya think? :o)
>

Did Anakin/Vader even know he had offspring before he felt the force
in him and got his name from some spies.?

If he didn't then would he even be looking? I highly doubt that.

bob_taylor

unread,

Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00

Admiral Marcus Sjöberg <admiral...@galacticempire.net> wrote in message

news:95qkts46p6eb69c5a...@4ax.com...

Good point. Damn.

Darth Saotome

unread,

Oct 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/4/00

>Here's the first in a continuing series of problems or discrepencies I've
>had with our favorite pair of Trilogies...
>
>1) If Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted to hide Vader's son from the clutches of the
>most powerful and evil individuals in the Universe... Why did they a) Keep
>his last name "Skywalker"
and b) Place him on the same home planet that
>Anakin was from? A sparsely populated planet, surely the Skywalker name
>would carry some clout on Tattooine, no? Doesn't anyone think this would
>bring un-needed attention to Luke? (A blonde human and great pilot who just
>so happens to carry the same name of a pod-race legend, later to be a JEDI
>and WAR HERO??!)
>

Neither Vader or Palpatine realized Luke or Leia were born (and of course, it
made more sense to give Leia a different surname due to her importance in
galactic society), and Tatooine is far in the Outer Rim where Force sensitives
are undetectable and the area was sparsely populated enough that no one Luke
hung around with would care about any legends of old farts brandishing sticks
of light, when all they felt like doing was racing T-16s and shooting innocent,
defenseless, and ooogly wamp rats. My impression of a first meeting:

FIXER: What's your name, kid?
LUKE: Luke Skywalker
FIXER: Luke Who? Skyhopper? Starkiller? Logan's Runner?
LUKE: No, Skywal..
FIXER: Yeah whatever, "Wormie".
LUKE: (to self) Damn... branded for life.

>2) In TPM, Obi-Wan utters the line "Looks like we picked up another pathetic
>life form." Pathetic life form? Was Lucas smoking crack when he wrote this?
>Should this phrase even be in a Jedi's vocabulary? Isn't all life sacred,
>and we're all "luminous beings" and everthing? I can't see a Jedi trained
>since birth in the arts of peace and acceptance EVER saying this about a
>poor young slave boy that he just met. This is about as rediculous as Return
>of the Jedi almost being called "Revenge of the Jedi" -- I don't think
>"revenge" is the path to the light side, do you?

If you remember, Obi-Wan looked kinda sorta maybe EXTREMELY miffed when Maul
offed his Jedi Master. I'd say Bennie wasn't having a grand week, being under
a brief timetable of saving a planet and all, and by the time the duel happened
only showed that even years of Jedi counseling and training aren't much to
counter any experiences of pain or anger anyone feels in their lives. Jedi
Masters aren't brainwashers, they only do what they can (even Yoda and Ol'
Bennie combined couldn't keep Luke from rushing into an unknown destiny at
Bespin). Not saying the Benster's a loose cannon, but he thought he could
train Anakin and... heh... hey... ya know...

>
>3) Why wouldn't Watto take Republic Credits? Even if they're not acceptable
>currency... EVERYBODY has a price. Since it's a valid form of currency in
>most of the civilized universe, and Watto's a savvy trader, wouldn't he
>still accept Qui-Gon's money, but with an inflated premium, or exaggerated
>exchange rate? I mean, he'd certainly be able to convert it, at some
>expense. Even if not, couldn't Qui-Gon find SOMEBODY willing to do this?
>Especially with his Jedi mind trick--which he's shown he has no scruples in
>using to CHEAT in gambling. Why not persuade someone to take the credits in
>a FAIR exchange? In Star Wars, Han was getting ready to pay Jabba with the
>credits he received for safely delivering Luke and Leia. Would Jabba have
>refused? This seems a bit of a silly oversite to try and tack on an extra 45
> minutes onto our heroes' layover on the desert planet. How convenient...
>

There's no instance showing whether Watto owned a starship to leave the Outer
Rim or even had a penchant for doing so, therefore Republic dataries, unlike
Imperial credits, had no reach in that region of the galaxy, and Watto's in it
for the quick deal (besides, it's not like there was a "Dataries Exchange for
Barter Goods" booth to be found, or else the Jawas would've burned it down out
of pity).

Since Toydarians and Hutts are apparently immune to Jedi Mind trick tactics,
for whatever reason (that whole ysalamiri deal... you'd think only the undead
would be immune), Qui-Gon used Watto's greed against him, making so many bets
as to trick Watto into giving up more than he was confident to lose. Jedi
ain't just pretty untattooed faces with nifty hairdos and elongated glowrods,
y'know...

>Keep em honest,
>XANDAR

Keeping it Star Wars, and feeling like having a tall, cool juri juice about
now,
Darth Saotome

____ _____
V
@(^.^)@

"Everybody knows when your friends don't like your movie and can't think of
anything nice to say, they talk about the music!!"

Peter Dragon, from "Action!"

Mary Jones

unread,

Nov 6, 2023, 5:49:35 AM11/6/23

0 new messages