....WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? PEOPLE WONDER...................
iceman
The Most Debated Question of Our Time
WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST?
By Dr. Edward.R. Fields
"Since the Second World War, Jews have been treated with silk gloves.
Without Auschwitz,
there would be no Israel."
- by Nathan Goldmann, the Founder of Israel as quoted from Paris Match,
December 29, 1979
The "Holocaust" has given Israel a tremendous psychological advantage over
the Gentile
world, particularly America and Germany. By exploiting the guilt complex
instilled in
non-Jews, they have obtained:
Over $65 billion in aid from Germany.
Over $55 billion in aid from America. Israel, a prosperous country, receives
$3.2 billion,
(or $8 million a day) in foreign aid - more than any other country.
The 45,000 Jewish immigrants from Russia have the highest annual quota after
Mexico.
They enter as "refugees" without having to prove persecution! As "refugees"
they are
automatically entitled to full welfare benefits not subject to welfare
reform cuts.
Nonstop holocaust brainwashing in schools, TV, movies and books has placed
Israel
and organized Jewry above criticism!
"Official" Holocaust Figures Reduced
Immediately after World War II, Allied authorities declared that "Jews had
been
gassed" in all German concentration camps. It later discovered that the many
bodies photographed in the camps died during the waning days of the war -
from typhus, cold and starvation. Simon Wiesenthal, of the "Holocaust
Center"
in Los Angeles, stated in Books and Bookmen, April 1975, page 5, "No
gassing
took place in any camp on German soil." The Jew L.P. Beria headed the Soviet
NKVD secret police from 1938 to 1953. In 1945, he announced that they had
discovered a "holocaust" of six million Jews. This conveniently occurred
only in
camps in Poland! Beria would not allow any outside investigators to examine
these sites. The Jewish-owned New York Times reported in 1945 that Soviet
Russia supplied the figure of four million Jews having been put to death,
"in the
gas chambers of Auschwitz." However, in July of 1990, the Polish government
reduced this figure to 1.1 million and it was accepted by Jewish groups.
Despite
this evidence, the "official figure" of six million dead was not lowered to
three
million!
(It should also be noted that Elizabeth Dole, president of the American Red
Cross,
and wife of former Sen. Bob Dole, revealed that the official death records
from
Auschwitz had been uncovered in the Soviet Archives. It listed 70,000 deaths
from all causes.)
No Holocaust Order Ever Given
The Germans are noted for being meticulous record keepers. There was no
attempt
made to destroy wartime records, 1,100 tons of which were seized in the U.S.
Zone of occupation alone. British Historian, Colin Cross, writes in his
biography of
Hitler, on page 313: "There does not exist then, anything like a written
order
signed by Hitler for the extermination of the Jews in Europe."
Madagascar is a vast island off the coast of Africa in the Indian Ocean,
then owned
by France. Thousands of pages of German documents have been located
providing
a thorough study of the feasibility of establishing a Jewish homeland on the
island
of Madagascar. Plans were made for the reimbursement of the 25,000 French
citizens who lived there. Even the government of France studied the plan.
Theodore
Herzl, the founder of Zionism, considered Madagascar a possible site for a
Jewish
state. He also considered Kenya, Africa, the Sinai from the Suez Canal to
the Gaza
Strip, and a huge area in southern Poland, but they really wanted Palestine.
The German Foreign Ministry on January 25, 1939 issued a document on the
solution
to the Jewish problem which stated: "The end policy in regard to the Jews is
the
emigration of all Jews living in the territory of the Old Reich."
In Auschwitz Notebooks, we read that all of the top German leadership
supported
this plan. "On November 12, 1938, Goring had mentioned the question of
Madagascar.
Himmler himself had dreamed of that since 1934, a witness assures us. After
the
armistice of June 1940 (surrender of France), the idea was propounded by the
Foreign Ministry and approved by Himmler as well as by Hitler himself."
For these reasons SS official Reinhard Heydrich organized the Central Office
for
Jewish Emigration on February 11, 1939. Once the war began, this was no
longer
possible. Thus Hitler ordered the internment of Jews as enemy aliens and
deported
them to the east. On January 27, 1942, Hitler said: "The Jews must leave
Europe.
The best thing is that they go to Russia."
Roosevelt did the same thing as Hitler by ordering 120,000 Americans of
Japanese
descent living on the West Coast interned in concentration camps. In March
1942
Roosevelt accused them of being "security risks." The Japanese men, women
and
children were imprisoned behind barbed wire fences and armed guard towers in
the blazing hot desert.
The Nuremberg War Crimes Trial heard testimony from Hans Lammers as to what
he considered the "Final Solution of The Jewish Problem." Lammers was Chief
of
the Reich Chancellery and personally close to Himmler and Hitler. Lammers
said
he asked Himmler what was the "final solution." Himmler replied: "The Jews
must
be evacuated from Germany!" He said that Hitler told him the same thing. In
other
words, "The Final Solution" was --emigration! When asked, "when did you
first
learn that five million Jews had been exterminated," Lammers replied that it
was
"here" at the Nuremberg trials! Herman Goring also told the court that the
first
time he had heard anything about a holocaust was, "right here at Nuremberg!"
Auschwitz was a massive military-industrial complex of 39 camps of which 19
mainly
employed Jews. The factories at the "Monowitz No. 16 Camp" alone employed
126,000 workers. Holocaust expert, Leon Poliakov of Paris, in Breviary of
Hate,
page 134, in 1979 wrote that the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto was one of the
Germans'
"most important supply centers. The second in economic importance was the
Lodz
ghetto because it manufactured all kinds of goods, and, in particular, its
textile
industries constituted support of great value to the German economy."
Heinrich Himmler feared a typhus epidemic in the camps. Eastern European
Jews
were very unhygienic and were often blamed for the spread of typhus. On
December 28, 1942, Himmler ordered that, "the death rate in the camps must
be reduced at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, The Final Solution.)
On January
20, 1943, chief inspector of the camps, Richard Glucks, answered Himmler,
"Every
means will be used to lower the death rates." (Source, Nuremberg Trial
Document
No. 1523.) The death rate had indeed been reduced from 8.5% in July 1942 to
2.8% in June 1943.
On April 17, 1943, Hitler asked Admiral Horthy, regent of Hungary for, "100,
000 J
ews to work on a new pursuit plane program." (Source, Reitlinger's book, Die
Endlosung, 1956, page 478.) In May 1944 Hitler personally ordered that
200,000
more Jews be put to work in construction and "other important military
works."
The Jews were vital to the German war industry. It would have been counter
productive to exterminate them. In fact, the SS arrested Karl Koch,
commandant
of Buchenwald, for mistreating and unjustly executing some prisoners. After
being
found guilty by a military court, Koch was sentenced to death and shot. If
there
was actually a "holocaust" he would have been honored instead of executed.
Shindler's List features Commandant Amon Goeth, who in reality did abuse
prisoners.
However, the film fails to inform viewers that he had been arrested by the
SS and
was in prison awaiting trial at war's end. Most of the gruesome pictures of
bodies
we see in "made for TV" holocaust dramas are those who died of starvation
and
disease during the final chaotic months of the war. An example is Dachau.
Some 54
died in January 1944 and 101 in February 1944. When food and medical
supplies
could not be delivered due to Allied bombings, 2,888 died in January and
3,977 in
February 1945.
The Impossibility of Mass Gassings
Auschwitz had no mass graves. The cremation of four million bodies would
have left
15,000 tons of ash which was never found. Many tons of coal would have been
necessary for such mass cremations. Initially, the Soviets told conflicting
stories about
how the six million perished in the camps under their control. At first they
claimed
that the inmates had been "steamed" to death. On December 5, 1945, a
Communist
judge issued the following "Accusation No. 6" against defendant Hans Frank
at
Nuremberg:
"A large boiler for the production of superheated steam was injected into
the interior
of the rooms. The doors are closed hermetically and the long asphyxiation of
the
victims by the steam begins. At the start, screams came from inside, they
die down
slowly; after 15 minutes, the executions are completed."
This story was not believable. It was then changed to allege that trucks
were backed
up to the "death chambers" and carbon monoxide gas was pumped into the
rooms.
This claim too was "forgotten" and the Soviets then charged that the Germans
changed
the "steam chambers" into "gas chambers."
The Soviets came up with a novel idea of how the Jews were exterminated at
the Belzec
camp. "The Jews were ordered to undress as though to take a bath. They were
led in
fact into a building that could hold hundreds of people. The water was
filled up to their
necks. Then a powerful electric current was sent into the metal flooring and
within a
few seconds all the Jews, thousands at a time, were dead."
Soviet prosecutor L.N. Smirnov actually read this accusation into the record
at the
December 19, 1945, session of the Nuremberg trial. This story finally
evolved to
execution by "Zyklon B" gas. This was a widely used pesticide to kill lice
which was
the biggest health threat in the camps. Had the Germans actually wanted to
perform
mass exterminations, they had products one-thousand times more deadly such
as
Sarin and Tabun nerve gas!
Austrian Engineer Walter Luftl issued a report in March 1992, in which he
found that,
"Zyklon B is utterly unsuited for the purposes of systematic mass murder."
Fred Leuchter, America's foremost expert on executions, took a team of
investigators
to Auschwitz in 1988 and reported: "I traveled to Poland to investigate the
alleged
execution gas chamber facilities at the three concentration camps of
Auschwitz,
Birkenau and Majdanek. My forensic analysis and subsequent report proves
beyond
any shadow of a doubt that there were no gas execution facilities operated
by the
Nazis at these sites."
Leuchter also examined the capacity of the so-called "gas chamber building"
at Birkenau.
The Nuremberg Tribunal's document No. L-022 stated: "1,765,000 Jews were
gassed
at Birkenau between April 1942 and April 1944." However, Leuchter found that
even
if used at full capacity "only 105,688" persons could have been "gassed."
His team
scraped forensic samples from brick, mortar and concrete to find traces of
cyanide
compounds which would be present for centuries. They were submitted to the
Alpha
Analytical Laboratories of Ashland, Massachusetts. In March 1988, the Alpha
report f
ound that no cyanide elements, consistent with what could be expected to be
found
in a gas chamber, were present.
A retired German judge, Dr. Wilhelm Staglich said: "The extermination thesis
stands or
falls with the allegation that Auschwitz was a 'death factory.'"
Fred Leuchter's finding: "We have provided the definitive proof that there
were no
execution gas chambers utilized for genocidal purposes by the Germans at
these
wartime camps. The simple fact is that the holocaust story is not true."
How Many Jews Actually Died?
The World Almanac for 1947, in quoting figures supplies by the American
Jewish
Committee states that the world Jewish population in 1939 was 15,688,259.
The
New York Times of February 22, 1948, stated that the world Jewish population
ranged from 15,600,000 to 18,700,000, excluding some 600,000 to 700,000
living
in Palestine. How could the Jewish population have increased so rapidly
after
losing six million during World War II? Walter Sanning, the author of
Dissolution
of European Jewry, says that no less than 2,200,000 Jews had emigrated out
of Europe leaving 2,847,000 Jews residing there at the height of the German
occupation in June 1941. After the war, 3,375,000 Jews, according to the Red
Cross, applied for holocaust reparations. This figure included many of the
emigrants.
Thus, the actual number of those who died at the camps from all causes
ranges
between 150,000 and 300,000.
"Holocaust" Silences Opposition
Hardly a week goes by without a new holocaust story in the media. Bernard
Postal
wrote in Jewish Week, July 14, 1979:
"Not until the Holocaust, did anti-Semitism become taboo. There was a time
when
anti-Semitic speeches were an open factor in national (political) campaigns.
The
Holocaust puts a taboo on overt anti-Semitism among upper-level statesmen
and
publicists."
Zionist spokesmen have often boasted that, "The shattering effect of the
holocaust
on the Christian conscience results in a feeling of collective indebtedness
to the Jews."
The Red Cross issued a massive, three volume, 1,600 page report on the camps
after the war, part of which reads: "In the final moths of the war, the
camps
received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an increasing number
of
victims." ... Gen. Kaltenbrunner. . . Allowed the Red Cross to distribute
relief
packages and one (Red Cross) delegate was authorized to stay in each camp
(as an observer). Does this sound like a holocaust?
What About Real Holocausts?
Why doesn't the film industry or news media produce documentaries about the
numerous true holocausts of Gentiles during this century such as:
The Soviet Holocaust of Christian Russian Kulak farmers. (1924 - 1930) - 15
million
exterminated!
The Holocaust of the Ukranian farmers, (1930- 1933) - 7 million starved to
death.
The Holocaust of Russian political prisoners, (1919 - 1949) - 12 million
perished.
The Pol Pot Communist Holocaust in Cambodia (1975) - 2.5 million
slaughtered.
Armenian Holocaust by the Turks, (1915) - 1.5 million people killed.
Bear in mind that the Jews are the only racial group with an organization
like the
World Jewish congress which wields fearsome power!
Dr.Edw. R. Fields
Balios
The recent opening of the German archives has added miles of original
documents to those miles already existing
Holocaust denial is an attempt to sanitise Nazism and fascism - making
them attractive to a new genration ill informed by a bad education system
and a church which is full of shite
Did our fathers generation die for nothing?
iceman
"Balios" <Poseiod...@Illiad.com> wrote in message
news:PoseiodonsGift-...@192.168.0.2...
> There is NO question about the existence of the Holocaust
>
> The recent opening of the German archives has added miles of original
> documents to those miles already existing
>
> Holocaust denial is an attempt to sanitise Nazism and fascism - making
> them attractive to a new genration ill informed by a bad education system
> and a church which is full of shite
>
The "denial" is one of free speech. The threat of imprisonment for anyone
that says anything a Jew finds offensive!! This is the first and conclusive
clue --the Zionists push for legislantion around the world to punish....the
thought police. The question needs to be settled once and for all. There
was no mention in any of the memoirs, Eisenhower, Churchill, etc... of WWII
of any mass killings of Jews--and the omission is glaring. The last 3
months of the war saw deaths from disease and starvation widesspread thruout
the country. The Jews who were in the work camps survived in higher
percentages than did the German civilians in Dresdin, Berlin, other German
cities.
All those Holocaust museums you built are nothing but "Guilt factories" of a
gigantic hoax..
trike...@yahoo.com
iceman wrote:
> The Most Debated Question of Our Time
> WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST?
> By Dr. Edward.R. Fields
>
First, we must take into account the validity of the story. Here is an
intro Bio of Dr. Fields
"Born in 1932, Edward R. Fields became active in the nascent neo-Nazi
movement while a teenager in Atlanta. Born of Catholic parents, he was
barely of high school age when he joined the Columbians, described by
the California Attorney General as a "fascist stormtrooper group...
[and] para-military combat group that actively plotted a takeover of
the state of Georgia." 1 In a raid of the group, which was considered
subversive by the Justice Department, members were discovered with a
cache of arms and explosives and a list of people to be "exterminated."
Fields was not linked to the plot, though he and others formed a
committee to lobby for the release from prison of the group's leader."
So, this long-winded conspiracy theory doesn't hold up to the scrutiny
of the truth, QED.
Bert Hyman
"I_seek_t...@yahoo.com" <trike...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So, this long-winded conspiracy theory doesn't hold up to the scrutiny
> of the truth, QED.
But you still thought it was a good idea to repost it in its entirety.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@iphouse.com
vernon
"Bert Hyman" <be...@iphouse.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97B46940F9D...@216.250.184.7...
> In news:1146323753.8...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com
> "I_seek_t...@yahoo.com" <trike...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> So, this long-winded conspiracy theory doesn't hold up to the scrutiny
>> of the truth, QED.
>
> But you still thought it was a good idea to repost it in its entirety.
I thought the same. (regarding the foolishness, I think, of the re-post)
rightwinghank
Many died in WORK CAMPS of disease and hunger....many were shot ...
but not 6 million...even by present day jewish experts...now they claim
2 to 4 million...
which sounds high anyway.
ALL the world knows about the jewish deaths....by way of jewish
propagana every
day......who knows about 40 million russians who also died....or
20 millions of russians killed by the communist government....on and
on. other
mass murders....is it only the Jews count?
The word is getting out...the world either doesnt believe the
holocaust....
or care.
And if the world doesnt remember the holocaust or care....history will
repeat itself....
....... lets hope.
The world hates jews for a reason...but that is another post.
love
hank
...............................................
iceman
"I_seek_t...@yahoo.com" <trike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1146323753.8...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
iceman
"rightwinghank" <rightw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146329097....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Balios
> "Balios" <Poseiod...@Illiad.com> wrote in message
> news:PoseiodonsGift-...@192.168.0.2...
> > There is NO question about the existence of the Holocaust
> >
> > The recent opening of the German archives has added miles of original
> > documents to those miles already existing
> >
> > Holocaust denial is an attempt to sanitise Nazism and fascism - making
> > them attractive to a new genration ill informed by a bad education system
> > and a church which is full of shite
> >
>
> The "denial" is one of free speech.
That is arrant nonsense
Holocaust denial is an act of LYING - of defaming both those who died and
suffered and those of their families and their culture who survived or
have been born since into a more peaceful world.
The "free speech" argument is not a convincing one in a world where
certain forms of statement ARE outlawed such as incitement to harm and
murder and certain forms of defamation, slander and libel
The Judgement on Holocaust denial is harsh because of the sheer magnitude
of the crime it seeks to deny - we are not talking about just the
persecution and execution of some five to six million Jews here - we are
talking about a pattern of rape murder destruction and violence that came
close to destroying an entire continent, the continent of my birth
No - you are NOT going to deny the events unpunished - get that solid - it
is not going to happen. If it is necessary to prosecute thousands of
would be David Irvings it is NOT going to happen unpunished
The screams of tens of millions of people murdered during the years of
Nazis madness haunt us and beg they be never forgotten
Every year in Australia our old soldiers march. The last of the soldiers
from the Great War are passing away now. But there are row upon row of
soldiers from the Second World War who march bearing proudly the medals
they earned
YOU will NOT insult them or their memories. Many witnessed the
destruction. It is real it happened.
No holocaust denial is not an "opinion" about history - It is defamation
of the worst and most cowardly kind - aimed only at returning that misery
- the misery of Fascism and Nazism - to the world
No Passeran!
Lest we Forget.
++++++++++++
Balios
"rightwinghank" <rightw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The truth doesn't need laws to protect it like holocaust denial....
>
> Many died in WORK CAMPS of disease and hunger....many were shot ...
>
> but not 6 million...even by present day jewish experts...now they claim
> 2 to 4 million...
>
>
That is not the case
You are speaking of a particular statement made immediately after the war
that has been refuted. It took a long while to calculate the full scale
of the disaster
But by the time of the Nuremberg Trials a far more accurate picture had emerged
Balios
> If you can't attack the evidence, attack the messenger.......
>
BOTH dear boy
BOTH!
Balios
That is also why Holocaust Memorials often work in association with
Genocide studies Centres ensuring these events too are not forgotten. It
is largely the work of these centres that has kept alive within our
universities the memory of such events as the slaughter of the Armenian
Christians.
Denying genocide, for whatever motive, will never bring it to an end.
The murders continue as I write
What will bring them to an end, in a world of dwindling resources, is
UNDERSTANDING them - recognising warning signs and acting impartially
before it is too late
Balios
BERLIN (AP) - A far-right activist extradited from the United States and a
Belgian - both accused of denying the Holocaust - have been charged with
incitement, German prosecutors said Tuesday.
Germar Rudolf and Siegfried Verbeke are accused of "systematically"
denying or playing down the Nazi genocide of Europe's Jews in documents
and on the Internet and of stirring anti-Semitic hatred, prosecutors in
the western city of Mannheim said.
Denying the Holocaust is a crime in Germany, where it carries a maximum
sentence of five years.
Rudolf, a 41-year-old German who published a study claiming to prove that
the Nazis did not gas Jews at the Auschwitz concentration camp, was
deported to Germany from the U.S. in November to serve a 14-month sentence
for a 1995 conviction on similar charges.
Verbeke, a 64-year-old Belgian, was arrested in the Netherlands and also
was extradited to Germany in November.
Prosecutors in Mannheim already are leading a similar but unrelated case
against Ernst Zundel, a German deported from Canada last year.
Balios
Feb 20, 2006 11:26 am
Historian Irving Sentenced For Holocaust Denial
Brit Received 3 Years In Prison
(AP) VIENNA, Austria Right-wing British historian David Irving pleaded
guilty Monday to denying the Holocaust and was sentenced to three years in
prison, even after conceding he wrongly said there were no Nazi gas
chambers at the Auschwitz concentration camp.
Irving, handcuffed and wearing a navy blue suit, arrived in court carrying
a copy of one of his most controversial books ó "Hitler's War," which
challenges the extent of the Holocaust.
"I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz,"
Irving told the court before his sentencing, at which he faced up to 10
years in prison.
He also expressed sorrow "for all the innocent people who died during the
Second World War."
But he insisted he never wrote a book about the Holocaust, which he called
"just a fragment of my area of interest."
"In no way did I deny the killings of millions of people by the Nazis,"
testified Irving, who has written nearly 30 books.
The court said Irving had three days to appeal his sentence. His lawyer
did not immediately say whether he planned to do so.
Irving, 67, has been in custody since his November arrest on charges
stemming from two speeches he gave in Austria in 1989 in which he was
accused of denying the Nazis' extermination of 6 million Jews. He has
contended that most of those who died at concentration camps such as
Auschwitz succumbed to diseases such as typhus rather than execution.
The convicted Irving after his guilty plea under the 1992 law, which
applies to "whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to
excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes
against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media."
Irving's trial came amid new ó and fierce ó debate over freedom of
expression in Europe, where the printing and reprinting of unflattering
caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad has triggered deadly protests
worldwide.
Irving's lawyer, Elmar Kresbach, said last month the controversial Third
Reich historian was getting up to 300 pieces of fan mail a week from
supporters around the world and was writing his memoirs in detention under
the working title "Irving's War."
Irving was arrested Nov. 11 in the southern Austrian province of Styria on
a warrant issued in 1989. He was charged under a federal law that makes it
a crime to publicly diminish, deny or justify the Holocaust.
Irving had tried to win his provisional release on $24,000 bail, but a
Vienna court refused, saying it considered him a flight risk.
Within two weeks of his arrest, he asserted through his lawyer that he had
come to acknowledge the existence of Nazi-era gas chambers. Before the
trial began, Irving told reporters he now acknowledges that the Nazis
systematically slaughtered Jews during World War II.
"History is like a constantly changing tree," he said.
In the past, however, he has claimed that Adolf Hitler knew little if
anything about the Holocaust, and he has been quoted as saying there was
"not one shred of evidence" the Nazis carried out their "Final Solution"
to exterminate the Jewish population on such a massive scale.
Vienna's national court, where the trial is being held, ordered the
balcony gallery closed to prevent projectiles from being thrown down at
the bench, the newspaper Die Presse reported Sunday.
It quoted officials as saying they were bracing for Irving's supporters to
give him the Nazi salute or shout out pro-Hitler slogans during the trial.
In 2000, Irving sued American Holocaust scholar Deborah Lipstadt for libel
in a British court but lost. The presiding judge in that case, Charles
Gray, wrote that Irving was "an active Holocaust denier ... anti-Semitic
and racist."
Irving has had numerous run-ins with the law over the years.
In 1992, a judge in Germany fined him the equivalent of $6,000 for
publicly insisting the Nazi gas chambers at Auschwitz were a hoax.
(© 2006 The Associated Press.)
++++++++++++++++++++++
Balios
------------------------------------------------------------------------
World War II was without doubt the costliest war in military history. No
truly accurate figures exist and estimates can be only roughly
approximated. Somewhere between 15 and 20 million military personnel were
killed in action and another 25 to 30 million civilians probably died as a
result of the indiscriminate bombings, artillery barrages, and savage
fighting.
Military Dead
Among the Allies, the USSR had the heaviest battle casualties, with about
7.5 million dead. China lost 2.2 million combatants; the British about
300,000; the United States 292,000; and France 210,000. A TOTAL of 10.5
million
Among the Axis powers, Germany suffered about 3.5 million battle dead;
Japan 1.5 million; and Italy 200,000. A TOTAL of 5.2 million
Civilian Dead
The USSR lost between 10 and 30 million civilians; China at least 6
million; France about 400,000; the United Kingdom 65,000; and the United
States 6,000. A TOTAL of 16.5 million
On the Axis side, 500 - 700,000 German civilians were killed; 600 -
700,000 died in Japan; and 150,000 in Italy. A TOTAL of 1.5 million
These figures are in addition to the approximately 6 million Jews, mostly
from Eastern Europe, who were systematically murdered by the Germans.
ESTIMATED TOTAL CASUALTIES = 50 Million plus
Balios
Country Initial Jewish Population Estimated % Killed Estimated Killed
Number of Survivors
POLAND 3,300,000 91% 3,000,000 300,000
USSR 3,020,000 36% 1,100,000 1,920,000
HUNGARY 800,000 74% 596,000 204,000
GERMANY 566,000 36% 200,000 366,000
FRANCE 350,000 22% 77,320 272,680
ROMANIA 342,000 84% 287,000 55,000
AUSTRIA 185,000 35% 65,000 120,000
LITHUANIA 168,000 85% 143,000 25,000
NETHERLANDS 140,000 71% 100,000 40,000
BOHEMIA
MORAVIA 118,310 60% 71,150 47,160
LATVIA 95,000 84% 80,000 15,000
SLOVAKIA 88,950 80% 71,000 17,950
YUGOSLAVIA 78,000 81% 63,300 14,700
GREECE 77,380 87% 67,000 10,380
BELGIUM 65,700 45% 28,900 36,800
ITALY 44,500 17% 7,680 36,820
BULGARIA 50,000 0% 50,000
DENMARK 7,800 .8% 60 7,740
ESTONIA 4,500 44% 2,000 2,500
LUXEMBOURG 3,500 55% 1,950 1,550
FINLAND 2,000 .03% 7 1,993
NORWAY 1,700 45% 762 938
TOTAL 9,508,340 63% 5,962,129 3,546,211
Mickey
Rosevelt never then Figured out itæ„€ Alllies Stalins motives...to invade
Europe and exterminate 40 million.
The latter which he succeeded!
Mickey
Well howabout USA then...500-700000 German civilians killed on purpose.
British only 65000...thats tenfold.
No Wonder Europeans even today speak German rather than English.
vernon
"Mickey" <Mic...@flyingfinn.com> wrote in message
news:79Z4g.126$Dk....@read3.inet.fi...
Yep
Germany + Socialism (Nazi) = several million dead.
Russia + Socialism = Many million dead.
China + socialism (communism) = Many million dead.
Japan + Government owned and controlled (socialism) = Many million dead
Mickey
>
> My WW2 pity is for the Soviets.
>
Mine is not..they attacked with free guns that were supposed to be paid
back to USA (which they never did or USA dared to ask later..) The whole
Europe!
Remember their Ribbentrop pact and the secret agenda with Germany of
splitting the Europe into territories of interest?
My pity,deviotion and utmost patriotism goes for my country, for 700yrs
Russians have tried to invade and supress us.
In WW2 we put 1.1 million Russians to the hole (thats 4 times more than
American soldiers got KIA in WW2) to make our point, lost 94000 ourselves.
The land Soviet aquired covered barely to bury their own dead according
to their generals and I惴 happy with that!
USA promised nothing but Empty worlds to countries on lesser interest at
the time..today USa wants even Finland to join Nato.
Me on the otherhand say the hell with it, we are fed up with empty promises!
So in my Eyes the American administration is an egoboosting empty
promise that NEVER gets itæ„€ job done properly..like most american products.
Remembering Larry Thorne!
vernon
<fasti...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1146382218.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> What really happened in WW2?
>
> There were no gas chambers.
>
You really are stupid. Aren't you. Of course you have no idea how many
hundreds of thousands of G.I.s were ther immediatel after to physically see
the chambers and death camps.
> Yes, bodies were burned. There were lots of those.
>
> Yes, millions of people of various WHITE CAUCASIAN PEOPLES were sent to
> deathcamps. In the Holohoax version the camps have people in them who
> are not some genetic variety of European Caucasian.
What do you, in your retarded mind consider a Jew to be?
The following may have little to do with Jews but indicates the source of
annialation.
Mickey
> <fasti...@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:1146382218.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> What really happened in WW2?
>>
>> There were no gas chambers.
>>
>
> You really are stupid. Aren't you. Of course you have no idea how many
> hundreds of thousands of G.I.s were ther immediatel after to physically see
> the chambers and death camps.
Oh how many were they?
American G.Iæ„€ you mean?
You might find it as a surprise that Soviet attacked from the East and
found out the camps Months before any Western Ally.
>
>> Yes, bodies were burned. There were lots of those.
>>
>> Yes, millions of people of various WHITE CAUCASIAN PEOPLES were sent to
>> deathcamps. In the Holohoax version the camps have people in them who
>> are not some genetic variety of European Caucasian.
>
> What do you, in your retarded mind consider a Jew to be?
>
A Jew, a people that has been hated for over 4000 yrs, why one might
ask, and there sure must be some reason in themselves too.
> The following may have little to do with Jews but indicates the source of
> annialation.
>
> Germany + Socialism (Nazi) = several million dead.
About 2-4-6 in Concentration camps..depending on sources, even jews
themselves have taken back on the 6 mil figure+7.5 million Soviet Soldiers.
> Russia + Socialism = Many million dead.
Around 40 million of civilians annihilated by Stalin plus then the
others....
> China + socialism (communism) = Many million dead.
Nobody knows but prolly more than Third Reich totally.
> Japan + Government owned and controlled (socialism) = Many million dead
Japans...since 11th Century because of the Shogun wars...well who knows.
Mickey
> "Mickey" <Mic...@flyingfinn.com> wrote in message
> news:79Z4g.126$Dk....@read3.inet.fi...
>> Balios wrote:
>>> You are right to draw attention to the figures of other genocides.
>>>
>>> That is also why Holocaust Memorials often work in association with
>>> Genocide studies Centres ensuring these events too are not forgotten. It
>>> is largely the work of these centres that has kept alive within our
>>> universities the memory of such events as the slaughter of the Armenian
>>> Christians.
>>>
>>> Denying genocide, for whatever motive, will never bring it to an end.
>>> The murders continue as I write
>>>
>>> What will bring them to an end, in a world of dwindling resources, is
>>> UNDERSTANDING them - recognising warning signs and acting impartially
>>> before it is too late
>> Rosevelt never then Figured out itæ„€ Alllies Stalins motives...to invade
>> Europe and exterminate 40 million.
>> The latter which he succeeded!
>
> Yep
> Germany + Socialism (Nazi) = several million dead.
> Russia + Socialism = Many million dead.
40 million+1.1 million German soldiers, 94000 Finnish Soldiers, how many
Polish Jews ??? (Ribbentrop-pacts secret clausule)
> China + socialism (communism) = Many million dead.
Nobody knows but might be clos to Pol pot and Idi Amin Combined.
> Japan + Government owned and controlled (socialism) = Many million dead
>
Since day one.
USA?
Nobody has counted and the figure is rising.
vernon
Your ignorance of the subject duly noted.
War casualties are from fighting not genocide.
The U.S. has had very little and none sponsored by the government, YET.
Wait until we get more socialistic.
vernon
> vernon wrote:
>> <fasti...@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:1146382218.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>> What really happened in WW2?
>>>
>>> There were no gas chambers.
>>>
>>
>> You really are stupid. Aren't you. Of course you have no idea how many
>> hundreds of thousands of G.I.s were ther immediatel after to physically
>> see the chambers and death camps.
>
> Oh how many were they?
> You might find it as a surprise that Soviet attacked from the East and
> found out the camps Months before any Western Ally.
>
No surprise to anyone familiar with history and why. To you it is an
anomaly because you STILL don't know. It's not that there isn't plenty of
documentation out there.
Try this on for size, to begin with. FDR was an outright, flat out, extreme
socialist.
Falcon
>
>"Mickey" <Mic...@flyingfinn.com> wrote in message
>>> Germany + Socialism (Nazi) = several million dead.
>> 6-2 mil civilians + 7.5 Soviets,300000 Brits,292000 Americans.
>>
>>> Russia + Socialism = Many million dead.
>> 40 million+1.1 million German soldiers, 94000 Finnish Soldiers, how many
>> Polish Jews ??? (Ribbentrop-pacts secret clausule)
>>> China + socialism (communism) = Many million dead.
>> Nobody knows but might be clos to Pol pot and Idi Amin Combined.
>>
>>> Japan + Government owned and controlled (socialism) = Many million dead
>> Since day one.
>>
>> USA?
>> Nobody has counted and the figure is rising.
>
>Your ignorance of the subject duly noted.
>War casualties are from fighting not genocide.
>
>The U.S. has had very little and none sponsored by the government, YET.
Plenty are government sponsored, it is just that we do not call it
genocide, we call it abortion and pretend they are not really a group
of little people being killed by the millions. Even though they may
not be any particular racial/ethnic group, infanticide is no
different than the wholesale slaughter of any other group and as far
as I know the good ol' USA leads the pack and protects the so-called
right to commit that particular murder.
--
Ciao,
Falcon
vernon
"Falcon" <Falco...@verizzon.net> wrote in message
news:0ig952hk8ar52tc6u...@4ax.com...
Agree 100%, no 100,000%
It's another bag of worms.
It won't be long when letting people die for economic reasons and for "their
own good" will be standard.
The government actually takes the right of a parent to prevent murder but a
nurse (or doctor) cannot give the same age girl an aspirin.
Oh, yes. Don't forget that even after live birth a deformed or not
"perfect" baby will be terminated for their own good. I wouldn't be at all
surprised that in 50 years or less the "cure" for AD/HD will be termination.
>
> --
> Ciao,
> Falcon
torresD
http://www.cpt.org/hebron/video/palestine_videos.htm
Balios
<midwi...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Balios wrote:
>
> [Snip excellent post for brevity]
>
> > Lest we Forget.
>
> Well said indeed.
Thankyou
When it comes to the things that really matter I do try
Kindest regards
Balios
Balios
<Mic...@flyingfinn.com> wrote:
And if we trace back the chain of events we find that the attempts of
western powers to destabilise revolutionary Russia was largely what led to
Stalins successful seizure of power. And if we go back a stage beyond we
can blame the european royal families , the belligerence of Kaiser Wilhelm
II - the errors of Bismarck, the very existence of the British and French
Empires and the tyranny of the Russian Orthodox priesthood that supported
serfdom for so long.
In fact we need never stop blaming if we want to carry on so doing
The problems is how do we stop the process of violence succeeding
violence? I would suggest that it requires two things - One is that
instead of trying to measure things in terms of competing anlayses of
history or some concept of absolute truth and God's will we need to
examine things more existentially and in terms of our organic
environment. We need to say -"It doesn't matter what brought us to our
present point, what matters is how we create a better and sustainable
world from now - from the present"
Often this will require both memory with blame, major crimes against
humanity should not go unpunished - and memory without blame - a
recognition of "there but for the grace of God go I"
The second thing it requires is a new morality - a new ethic - and that in
turn requires a recognition that our theologies have to change. We cannot
successfully build a new world on the basis of an atiquated theology that
evolved in the days of the Roman Empire. Our present theology is
autocratic , superstitious, illogical and racist and it supports an
impossible eschatology.
I believe that whoever Jesus himself was - or whoever was responsible for
creating the character - he recognised in his own time the nature of a
similar problem. He saw as the key to it the excessively close
relationship between state and religion whereby religion had become the
servant of the Romanised state and he saw the sheer non feasibility of a
society based on an impossible gulf between rich and poor on classes and
on racism.
We have the same now - It is theocracy that props up one Government after
another and which repels all attempts at social progress. The gulf
between massive wealth and the reality of poverty is between the selfish
possession of billions of dollars and the lack of everything - even
including a clean cup of drinkable water.
No supposedly compassionate religion can be said to truly exist that does
not address these problems, and that instead argues about whether you
should baptise a baby or an adult with non existent water.
And that - is what the true sin of the Baptist church is It is why NO
church is of any Jesus I can personally recognise.
And I find it unforgiveable in the extreme
Balios
<there@there> wrote:
Four out of four
None are or were socialist countries
Germany was Fascist it took the name of National Socialism for propaganda
reasons just as it took the name of Christianity. But it was the
socialists and social democrats who first filled the concentration camps -
long before the Jews;
Russia under Stalin was hardly a socialist country - America was closer to
socialism than that. Russia under Stalin had the features of a
totalitarian dictatorship closer by far to Hitler than even to Lenin.
Indeed Stalin executed Lenins associates - including the second leader of
the revolution of 1917, Leon Trotsky
Japan persecuted and largely exterminated its socialists before the war.
And as for China - socialist - I think not. However benevolent a leader
Mao may have been at the time of the Kuomintang and the Japanese invasion
- socialism is not what ruled China under Mao
What ruled China was Mao himself!.
Throwing insults at socialism is not the way to progress. Had an Arab
revolution succeeeded in the fifties under Nasser we might well not be in
the mess we are in today
But who knows
We could have been in a worse one.
Balios
<there@there> wrote:
>
> No surprise to anyone familiar with history and why. To you it is an
> anomaly because you STILL don't know. It's not that there isn't plenty of
> documentation out there.
>
> Try this on for size, to begin with. FDR was an outright, flat out, extreme
> socialist.
You won't like this but your own measure proves you wrong and that is the
measure of existing contemporary documentation,
Here - for historical reasons alone and not for some some form of
political subversion I append Len Trotskys comments on the world situation
and the New Deal policies of Roosevelt.
What we have here is a socialist commentary on Roosevelt. I think you too
would have to agree that this article hardly reads as an acclaim for a
"fellow socialist" I have asterisked the crucial paragraph
Dishonesty in historical matters is never excusable. It creates a
nightmare 1984 world in which facts are malleable. Please do not do it
This article was written towards the end of Trotskys life a couple of
years before his assassination by Stalin's henchman
The Objective Prerequisites
for a Socialist Revolution
The world political situation as a whole is chiefly characterized by a
historical
crisis of the leadership of the proletariat.
The economic prerequisite for the proletarian revolution has already in general
achieved the highest point of fruition that can be reached under capitalism.
Mankind¹s productive forces stagnate. Already new inventions and improve-
ments fail to raise the level of material wealth. Conjunctural crises under the
conditions of the social crisis of the whole capitalist system inflict
ever heav-
ier deprivations and sufferings upon the masses. Growing unemployment, in
its turn, deepens the financial crisis of the state and undermines the unstable
monetary systems. Democratic regimes, as well as fascist, stagger on from one
bankruptcy to another.
The bourgeoisie itself sees no way out. In countries where it has already been
forced to stake its last upon the card of fascism, it now toboggans with closed
eyes toward an economic and military catastrophe. In the historically privi-
leged countries, i.e., in those where the bourgeoisie can still for a
certain period
permit itself the luxury of democracy at the expense of national accumulations
(Great Britain, France, United States, etc.), all of capital¹s traditional
parties are
in a state of perplexity bordering on a paralysis of will.
****The ²New Deal², despite its first period of pretentious resoluteness,
represents
but a special form of political perplexity, possible only in a country where the
bourgeoisie succeeded in accumulating incalculable wealth. The present cri-
sis, far from having run its full course, has already succeeded in showing that
²New Deal² politics, like Popular Front politics in France, opens no new exit
from the economic blind alley.****
International relations present no better picture. Under the increasing ten-
sion of capitalist disintegration, imperialist antagonisms reach an impasse at
the height of which separate clashes and bloody local disturbances (Ethiopia,
Spain, the Far East, Central Europe) must inevitably coalesce into a conflagra-
tion of world dimensions. The bourgeoisie, of course, is aware of the mortal
danger to its domination represented by a new war. But that class is now im-
measurably less capable of averting war than on the eve of 1914
Leon Trotsky
+++++++++++++++++++++
Balios
<there@there> wrote:
>
> Agree 100%, no 100,000%
> It's another bag of worms.
> It won't be long when letting people die for economic reasons and for "their
> own good" will be standard.
> The government actually takes the right of a parent to prevent murder but a
> nurse (or doctor) cannot give the same age girl an aspirin.
> Oh, yes. Don't forget that even after live birth a deformed or not
> "perfect" baby will be terminated for their own good. I wouldn't be at all
> surprised that in 50 years or less the "cure" for AD/HD will be termination.
A ridiculous assertion
Beneath contempt
Poseidon
nationalities and creeds were killed. For the dwindling band of diehard
conspiracy theorists who are still laboring under the illusion that
there was a plot to murder "six million Jews" with the aid of "gas
chambers", I would recommend this link...
which offers free downloads of books in .pdf format; the books may also
be purchased online. For beginners, Germar Rudolf's Lectures on the
Holocaust is an excellent introduction; his The Rudolf Report is also
very readable. The latter contains much of interest such as the safety
aspects of working with Zyklon B, and the prevalence of typhus during
the time of WWII (and WWI). The typhus epidemic at the Auschwitz
concentration camp that erupted in early July 1942 was introduced by
civilian laborers working at the camp, rather than the inmates.
My website at
http://www.takeourworldback.com
describes how the multi-hundred-billion dollar multi-hundred-billion
mark Holohoax fraud relates to a long-term strategy for global
enslavement by a crooked cabal. The programme includes false-flag
attacks such as the attempted sinking of the USS Liberty in June 1967
and the $3.6 billion insurance scam concerning the controlled
demolition of three skyscrapers in September 2001. Now that the Zionist
cabal has progressed to the point of running a protection racket for
its puppet satellite governments, hits such as London 7/7 and Sharm
al-Sheikh July 23 are the penalty for double-crossing over a natural
gas deal; the sinking of a ferry with the loss of over 1,000 lives is
the penalty for a country (Egypt) that refuses to observe Israel's
January 27 Holohoax Remembrance Day.
At the time of WWII, Zyklon B was the best disinfestation agent for
delousing the clothes of the inmates of labor concentration camps. It
would have been an absurd choice as an instrument for mass murder;
herding prisoners into an airtight container for suffocation would have
been cheaper, safer for the captors, and quicker when allowing for the
time for cyanide levels to decline so that guards with gas masks
(somewhat short of full body protection) could enter in reasonable
safety. Utilization of a diabolical water-pumping apparatus to drown
the prisoners would have combined high processing capacity and safety.
Bayonets or a bullet in the back of the head, as in actual historical
holocausts, would have been the most likely choice. And the idea that a
nation fighting for its very survival against the US, UK, USSR, etc and
having to maintain control of occupied territories, could somehow spare
all the manpower, to say nothing of 330,000 tonnes of coke, required to
exterminate millions of "undesirables" is purely for tin-foil-hatted
paranoid fruitcakes who have become derailed from reality. The US, UK,
Australia, etc, cannot even keep the peace in Iraq!
The "six million" figure was first peddled by Rabbi Stephen S Wise in
June 1900 - a mere three years after the first Zionist Congress - when
he spoke of "six million living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favor
of Zionism". In 1919, Martin Glynn wrote of "six million" starving
Jews. Wise, along with the Jew Morgenthau, was also heavily involved in
pushing the "extermination gas chambers" religion from 1942 onwards.
Nowadays, the trillion-dollar Zionist crime syndicate employ disinfo
merchants such as Andrew E Mathis in a last-ditch attempt to prop up
the "disinfestation chambers were gas chambers" hoax for a few more
years, until the fraudsters depart this mortal coil.
The Zionist leaders were only too pleased to sell the ordinary Jews
down the river when it suited them. Yitzhak / Izaak Greenbaum said that
one cow in Palestine was worth more than all the Jews in Europe. A
letter dated August 28, 1937, from Chancellor Heinrich Bruning to
Winston Churchill stated: "I did not and do not even today, for
understandable reasons, wish to reveal that from October 1928 the two
largest regular contributors to the Nazi party were the general
managers of two of the largest Berlin banks, both of Jewish faith, and
one of them the leader of zionism in Germany".
It is time for a new alignment based upon ethics rather than ethnics.
Rather than persist with tribal conflicts and pogroms, the world's
decent, honorable people of all races and religions should join
together to fight our common enemy: the genocidal clique who delight in
taking profits as others pay the blood price. The current right-wing
dictatorship, posing as "democracy", will come crumbling down - it is
merely a matter of time. The Holocaust hoax will be very short-lived in
comparison with another notorious hoax: the so-called "Donation of
Constantine".
Kyle Daulton
"Poseidon" <pose...@takeourworldback.com> wrote in message
news:1146442819....@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> WWII was a holocaust in which over fifty million of various
> nationalities and creeds were killed. For the dwindling band of diehard
> conspiracy theorists who are still laboring under the illusion that
> there was a plot to murder "six million Jews" with the aid of "gas
> chambers", I would recommend this link...
>
> http://vho.org/dl/ENG.html
Cuckoo...cuckoo...cuckoo...
You're not planning on renting a truck and shopping for some fertilizer, are
you, Pusseidon?
--
%%%% I don't hide behind one. -- David Moffitt on nyms just before being
outed as Occam's Razor
uri
state.
In the 20th-century alone, states have murdered well over 100,000,000
human beings, whether in war, concentration camps, or man-made famine.
And this is merely a continuation of a seemingly endless historical
pattern: almost from the beginning of recorded history, governments
have existed. Once they arose, they allowed a ruling class to live off
the labor of the mass of ordinary people; and these ruling classes have
generally used their ill-gotten gains to build armies and wage war to
extend their sphere of influence. At the same time, governments have
always suppressed unpopular minorities, dissent, and the efforts of
geniuses and innovators to raise humanity to new intellectual, moral,
cultural, and economic heights. By transferring surplus wealth from
producers to the state's ruling elite, the state has often strangled
any incentive for long-run economic growth and thus stifled humanity's
ascent from poverty; and at the same time the state has always used
that surplus wealth to cement its power.
If the state is the proximate cause of so much needless misery and
cruelty, would it not be desirable to investigate the alternatives?
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/anarfaq.htm
iceman
"Balios" <Poseiod...@Illiad.com> wrote in message
news:PoseiodonsGift-...@192.168.0.2...
> In article <e2v8vj$t1a$0...@pita.alt.net>, "iceman" <ice...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "Balios" <Poseiod...@Illiad.com> wrote in message
>> news:PoseiodonsGift-...@192.168.0.2...
>> > There is NO question about the existence of the Holocaust
>> >
>> > The recent opening of the German archives has added miles of original
>> > documents to those miles already existing
>> >
>> > Holocaust denial is an attempt to sanitise Nazism and fascism - making
>> > them attractive to a new genration ill informed by a bad education
>> > system
>> > and a church which is full of shite
>> >
>>
>> The "denial" is one of free speech.
>
> That is arrant nonsense
>
> Holocaust denial is an act of LYING - of defaming both those who died and
> suffered and those of their families and their culture who survived or
> have been born since into a more peaceful world.
>
> The "free speech" argument is not a convincing one in a world where
> certain forms of statement ARE outlawed such as incitement to harm and
> murder and certain forms of defamation, slander and libel
>
> The Judgement on Holocaust denial is harsh because of the sheer magnitude
> of the crime it seeks to deny - we are not talking about just the
> persecution and execution of some five to six million Jews here - we are
> talking about a pattern of rape murder destruction and violence that came
> close to destroying an entire continent, the continent of my birth
>
> No - you are NOT going to deny the events unpunished - get that solid - it
> is not going to happen. If it is necessary to prosecute thousands of
> would be David Irvings it is NOT going to happen unpunished
>
> The screams of tens of millions of people murdered during the years of
> Nazis madness haunt us and beg they be never forgotten
>
> Every year in Australia our old soldiers march. The last of the soldiers
> from the Great War are passing away now. But there are row upon row of
> soldiers from the Second World War who march bearing proudly the medals
> they earned
>
> YOU will NOT insult them or their memories. Many witnessed the
> destruction. It is real it happened.
>
> No holocaust denial is not an "opinion" about history - It is defamation
> of the worst and most cowardly kind - aimed only at returning that misery
> - the misery of Fascism and Nazism - to the world
>
> No Passeran!
>
> Lest we Forget.
>
>
> ++++++++++++
Unfortunately, you are closed to new information. They made up a 'meme',
"Holocaust DENIER" instead of a more accurate, "Holocaust doubter". Like
the "War on Terrorism" instead of the "War for oil"........
You hear that phrase and you are captive, and are unable to do anything
different like Pavlov's dogs. You are incapable of any sort of research on
your own, but believe 100% whatever Bush and the USG says, thinking they and
the media are incapable of lying.
You must think that all the Zionist members of positions of leadership in
the Pentagon, Rumsfeldt and Wolfowitz and Kissenger, and that all of K
Street lobbists are now Jewish, having completely taken over, are merely a
coincidence, and you are incapable of research, only of being a knee-jerk
mouth breather.
iceman
"I_seek_t...@yahoo.com" <trike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1146323753.8...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> iceman wrote:
>> The Most Debated Question of Our Time
>> WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST?
>> By Dr. Edward.R. Fields
>>
> Snip!!!!
>
>
> First, we must take into account the validity of the story. Here is an
> intro Bio of Dr. Fields
>
> "Born in 1932, Edward R. Fields became active in the nascent neo-Nazi
> movement while a teenager in Atlanta. Born of Catholic parents, he was
> barely of high school age when he joined the Columbians, described by
> the California Attorney General as a "fascist stormtrooper group...
> [and] para-military combat group that actively plotted a takeover of
> the state of Georgia." 1 In a raid of the group, which was considered
> subversive by the Justice Department, members were discovered with a
> cache of arms and explosives and a list of people to be "exterminated."
> Fields was not linked to the plot, though he and others formed a
> committee to lobby for the release from prison of the group's leader."
>
> So, this long-winded conspiracy theory doesn't hold up to the scrutiny
> of the truth, QED.
>
>
>
It doesn't matter if the tooth fairy wrote it--if it's true.
What happened in Germany prior to WWII that led Hitler to order the Jews in
Germany to work camps? Why was there no mention of any such holocaust or
killing of Jews in the reports and memoirs of Eisenhower, Churchill?
>
>
>
>
>
>> "Since the Second World War, Jews have been treated with silk gloves.
>> Without Auschwitz,
>> there would be no Israel."
>>
>> - by Nathan Goldmann, the Founder of Israel as quoted from Paris Match,
>> December 29, 1979
>>
>>
>> The "Holocaust" has given Israel a tremendous psychological advantage
>> over
>> the Gentile
>> world, particularly America and Germany. By exploiting the guilt complex
>> instilled in
>> non-Jews, they have obtained:
>> Over $65 billion in aid from Germany.
>> Over $55 billion in aid from America. Israel, a prosperous country,
>> receives
>> $3.2 billion,
>> (or $8 million a day) in foreign aid - more than any other country.
>> The 45,000 Jewish immigrants from Russia have the highest annual quota
>> after
>> Mexico.
>> They enter as "refugees" without having to prove persecution! As
>> "refugees"
>> they are
>> automatically entitled to full welfare benefits not subject to welfare
>> reform cuts.
>> Nonstop holocaust brainwashing in schools, TV, movies and books has
>> placed
>> Israel
>> and organized Jewry above criticism!
>>
>>
>> "Official" Holocaust Figures Reduced
>> Immediately after World War II, Allied authorities declared that "Jews
>> had
>> been
>> gassed" in all German concentration camps. It later discovered that the
>> many
>> bodies photographed in the camps died during the waning days of the war -
>> from typhus, cold and starvation. Simon Wiesenthal, of the "Holocaust
>> Center"
>> in Los Angeles, stated in Books and Bookmen, April 1975, page 5, "No
>> gassing
>> took place in any camp on German soil." The Jew L.P. Beria headed the
>> Soviet
>> NKVD secret police from 1938 to 1953. In 1945, he announced that they had
>> discovered a "holocaust" of six million Jews. This conveniently occurred
>> only in
>> camps in Poland! Beria would not allow any outside investigators to
>> examine
>> these sites. The Jewish-owned New York Times reported in 1945 that Soviet
>> Russia supplied the figure of four million Jews having been put to death,
>> "in the
>> gas chambers of Auschwitz." However, in July of 1990, the Polish
>> government
>> reduced this figure to 1.1 million and it was accepted by Jewish groups.
>> Despite
>> this evidence, the "official figure" of six million dead was not lowered
>> to
>> three
>> million!
>> (It should also be noted that Elizabeth Dole, president of the American
>> Red
>> Cross,
>> and wife of former Sen. Bob Dole, revealed that the official death
>> records
>> from
>> Auschwitz had been uncovered in the Soviet Archives. It listed 70,000
>> deaths
>> from all causes.)
>>
>>
>>
>> No Holocaust Order Ever Given
>>
>> The Germans are noted for being meticulous record keepers. There was no
>> attempt
>> made to destroy wartime records, 1,100 tons of which were seized in the
>> U.S.
>> Zone of occupation alone. British Historian, Colin Cross, writes in his
>> biography of
>> Hitler, on page 313: "There does not exist then, anything like a written
>> order
>> signed by Hitler for the extermination of the Jews in Europe."
>> Madagascar is a vast island off the coast of Africa in the Indian Ocean,
>> then owned
>> by France. Thousands of pages of German documents have been located
>> providing
>> a thorough study of the feasibility of establishing a Jewish homeland on
>> the
>> island
>> of Madagascar. Plans were made for the reimbursement of the 25,000 French
>> citizens who lived there. Even the government of France studied the plan.
>> Theodore
>> Herzl, the founder of Zionism, considered Madagascar a possible site for
>> a
>> Jewish
>> state. He also considered Kenya, Africa, the Sinai from the Suez Canal to
>> the Gaza
>> Strip, and a huge area in southern Poland, but they really wanted
>> Palestine.
>> The German Foreign Ministry on January 25, 1939 issued a document on the
>> solution
>> to the Jewish problem which stated: "The end policy in regard to the Jews
>> is
>> the
>> emigration of all Jews living in the territory of the Old Reich."
>> In Auschwitz Notebooks, we read that all of the top German leadership
>> supported
>> this plan. "On November 12, 1938, Goring had mentioned the question of
>> Madagascar.
>> Himmler himself had dreamed of that since 1934, a witness assures us.
>> After
>> the
>> armistice of June 1940 (surrender of France), the idea was propounded by
>> the
>> Foreign Ministry and approved by Himmler as well as by Hitler himself."
>> For these reasons SS official Reinhard Heydrich organized the Central
>> Office
>> for
>> Jewish Emigration on February 11, 1939. Once the war began, this was no
>> longer
>> possible. Thus Hitler ordered the internment of Jews as enemy aliens and
>> deported
>> them to the east. On January 27, 1942, Hitler said: "The Jews must leave
>> Europe.
>> The best thing is that they go to Russia."
>> Roosevelt did the same thing as Hitler by ordering 120,000 Americans of
>> Japanese
>> descent living on the West Coast interned in concentration camps. In
>> March
>> 1942
>> Roosevelt accused them of being "security risks." The Japanese men, women
>> and
>> children were imprisoned behind barbed wire fences and armed guard towers
>> in
>> the blazing hot desert.
>>
>> The Nuremberg War Crimes Trial heard testimony from Hans Lammers as to
>> what
>> he considered the "Final Solution of The Jewish Problem." Lammers was
>> Chief
>> of
>> the Reich Chancellery and personally close to Himmler and Hitler. Lammers
>> said
>> he asked Himmler what was the "final solution." Himmler replied: "The
>> Jews
>> must
>> be evacuated from Germany!" He said that Hitler told him the same thing.
>> In
>> other
>> words, "The Final Solution" was --emigration! When asked, "when did you
>> first
>> learn that five million Jews had been exterminated," Lammers replied that
>> it
>> was
>> "here" at the Nuremberg trials! Herman Goring also told the court that
>> the
>> first
>> time he had heard anything about a holocaust was, "right here at
>> Nuremberg!"
>> Auschwitz was a massive military-industrial complex of 39 camps of which
>> 19
>> mainly
>> employed Jews. The factories at the "Monowitz No. 16 Camp" alone employed
>> 126,000 workers. Holocaust expert, Leon Poliakov of Paris, in Breviary of
>> Hate,
>> page 134, in 1979 wrote that the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto was one of the
>> Germans'
>> "most important supply centers. The second in economic importance was the
>> Lodz
>> ghetto because it manufactured all kinds of goods, and, in particular,
>> its
>> textile
>> industries constituted support of great value to the German economy."
>> Heinrich Himmler feared a typhus epidemic in the camps. Eastern European
>> Jews
>> were very unhygienic and were often blamed for the spread of typhus. On
>> December 28, 1942, Himmler ordered that, "the death rate in the camps
>> must
>> be reduced at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, The Final
>> Solution.)
>> On January
>> 20, 1943, chief inspector of the camps, Richard Glucks, answered Himmler,
>> "Every
>> means will be used to lower the death rates." (Source, Nuremberg Trial
>> Document
>> No. 1523.) The death rate had indeed been reduced from 8.5% in July 1942
>> to
>> 2.8% in June 1943.
>>
>> On April 17, 1943, Hitler asked Admiral Horthy, regent of Hungary for,
>> "100,
>> 000 J
>> ews to work on a new pursuit plane program." (Source, Reitlinger's book,
>> Die
>> Endlosung, 1956, page 478.) In May 1944 Hitler personally ordered that
>> 200,000
>> more Jews be put to work in construction and "other important military
>> works."
>> The Jews were vital to the German war industry. It would have been
>> counter
>> productive to exterminate them. In fact, the SS arrested Karl Koch,
>> commandant
>> of Buchenwald, for mistreating and unjustly executing some prisoners.
>> After
>> being
>> found guilty by a military court, Koch was sentenced to death and shot.
>> If
>> there
>> was actually a "holocaust" he would have been honored instead of
>> executed.
>> Shindler's List features Commandant Amon Goeth, who in reality did abuse
>> prisoners.
>> However, the film fails to inform viewers that he had been arrested by
>> the
>> SS and
>> was in prison awaiting trial at war's end. Most of the gruesome pictures
>> of
>> bodies
>> we see in "made for TV" holocaust dramas are those who died of starvation
>> and
>> disease during the final chaotic months of the war. An example is Dachau.
>> Some 54
>> died in January 1944 and 101 in February 1944. When food and medical
>> supplies
>> could not be delivered due to Allied bombings, 2,888 died in January and
>> 3,977 in
>> February 1945.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The Impossibility of Mass Gassings
>>
>> Auschwitz had no mass graves. The cremation of four million bodies would
>> have left
>> 15,000 tons of ash which was never found. Many tons of coal would have
>> been
>> necessary for such mass cremations. Initially, the Soviets told
>> conflicting
>> stories about
>> how the six million perished in the camps under their control. At first
>> they
>> claimed
>> that the inmates had been "steamed" to death. On December 5, 1945, a
>> Communist
>> judge issued the following "Accusation No. 6" against defendant Hans
>> Frank
>> at
>> Nuremberg:
>> "A large boiler for the production of superheated steam was injected into
>> the interior
>> of the rooms. The doors are closed hermetically and the long asphyxiation
>> of
>> the
>> victims by the steam begins. At the start, screams came from inside, they
>> die down
>> slowly; after 15 minutes, the executions are completed."
>> This story was not believable. It was then changed to allege that trucks
>> were backed
>> up to the "death chambers" and carbon monoxide gas was pumped into the
>> rooms.
>> This claim too was "forgotten" and the Soviets then charged that the
>> Germans
>> changed
>> the "steam chambers" into "gas chambers."
>> The Soviets came up with a novel idea of how the Jews were exterminated
>> at
>> the Belzec
>> camp. "The Jews were ordered to undress as though to take a bath. They
>> were
>> led in
>> fact into a building that could hold hundreds of people. The water was
>> filled up to their
>> necks. Then a powerful electric current was sent into the metal flooring
>> and
>> within a
>> few seconds all the Jews, thousands at a time, were dead."
>> Soviet prosecutor L.N. Smirnov actually read this accusation into the
>> record
>> at the
>> December 19, 1945, session of the Nuremberg trial. This story finally
>> evolved to
>> execution by "Zyklon B" gas. This was a widely used pesticide to kill
>> lice
>> which was
>> the biggest health threat in the camps. Had the Germans actually wanted
>> to
>> perform
>> mass exterminations, they had products one-thousand times more deadly
>> such
>> as
>> Sarin and Tabun nerve gas!
>> Austrian Engineer Walter Luftl issued a report in March 1992, in which he
>> found that,
>> "Zyklon B is utterly unsuited for the purposes of systematic mass
>> murder."
>> Fred Leuchter, America's foremost expert on executions, took a team of
>> investigators
>> to Auschwitz in 1988 and reported: "I traveled to Poland to investigate
>> the
>> alleged
>> execution gas chamber facilities at the three concentration camps of
>> Auschwitz,
>> Birkenau and Majdanek. My forensic analysis and subsequent report proves
>> beyond
>> any shadow of a doubt that there were no gas execution facilities
>> operated
>> by the
>> Nazis at these sites."
>> Leuchter also examined the capacity of the so-called "gas chamber
>> building"
>> at Birkenau.
>> The Nuremberg Tribunal's document No. L-022 stated: "1,765,000 Jews were
>> gassed
>> at Birkenau between April 1942 and April 1944." However, Leuchter found
>> that
>> even
>> if used at full capacity "only 105,688" persons could have been "gassed."
>> His team
>> scraped forensic samples from brick, mortar and concrete to find traces
>> of
>> cyanide
>> compounds which would be present for centuries. They were submitted to
>> the
>> Alpha
>> Analytical Laboratories of Ashland, Massachusetts. In March 1988, the
>> Alpha
>> report f
>> ound that no cyanide elements, consistent with what could be expected to
>> be
>> found
>> in a gas chamber, were present.
>> A retired German judge, Dr. Wilhelm Staglich said: "The extermination
>> thesis
>> stands or
>> falls with the allegation that Auschwitz was a 'death factory.'"
>> Fred Leuchter's finding: "We have provided the definitive proof that
>> there
>> were no
>> execution gas chambers utilized for genocidal purposes by the Germans at
>> these
>> wartime camps. The simple fact is that the holocaust story is not true."
>>
>>
>>
>> How Many Jews Actually Died?
>> The World Almanac for 1947, in quoting figures supplies by the American
>> Jewish
>> Committee states that the world Jewish population in 1939 was 15,688,259.
>> The
>> New York Times of February 22, 1948, stated that the world Jewish
>> population
>> ranged from 15,600,000 to 18,700,000, excluding some 600,000 to 700,000
>> living
>> in Palestine. How could the Jewish population have increased so rapidly
>> after
>> losing six million during World War II? Walter Sanning, the author of
>> Dissolution
>> of European Jewry, says that no less than 2,200,000 Jews had emigrated
>> out
>> of Europe leaving 2,847,000 Jews residing there at the height of the
>> German
>> occupation in June 1941. After the war, 3,375,000 Jews, according to the
>> Red
>> Cross, applied for holocaust reparations. This figure included many of
>> the
>> emigrants.
>> Thus, the actual number of those who died at the camps from all causes
>> ranges
>> between 150,000 and 300,000.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Holocaust" Silences Opposition
>> Hardly a week goes by without a new holocaust story in the media. Bernard
>> Postal
>> wrote in Jewish Week, July 14, 1979:
>> "Not until the Holocaust, did anti-Semitism become taboo. There was a
>> time
>> when
>> anti-Semitic speeches were an open factor in national (political)
>> campaigns.
>> The
>> Holocaust puts a taboo on overt anti-Semitism among upper-level statesmen
>> and
>> publicists."
>> Zionist spokesmen have often boasted that, "The shattering effect of the
>> holocaust
>> on the Christian conscience results in a feeling of collective
>> indebtedness
>> to the Jews."
>> The Red Cross issued a massive, three volume, 1,600 page report on the
>> camps
>> after the war, part of which reads: "In the final moths of the war, the
>> camps
>> received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an increasing
>> number
>> of
>> victims." ... Gen. Kaltenbrunner. . . Allowed the Red Cross to distribute
>> relief
>> packages and one (Red Cross) delegate was authorized to stay in each camp
>> (as an observer). Does this sound like a holocaust?
>>
>>
>>
>> What About Real Holocausts?
>> Why doesn't the film industry or news media produce documentaries about
>> the
>> numerous true holocausts of Gentiles during this century such as:
>> The Soviet Holocaust of Christian Russian Kulak farmers. (1924 - 1930) -
>> 15
>> million
>> exterminated!
>> The Holocaust of the Ukranian farmers, (1930- 1933) - 7 million starved
>> to
>> death.
>> The Holocaust of Russian political prisoners, (1919 - 1949) - 12 million
>> perished.
>> The Pol Pot Communist Holocaust in Cambodia (1975) - 2.5 million
>> slaughtered.
>> Armenian Holocaust by the Turks, (1915) - 1.5 million people killed.
>> Bear in mind that the Jews are the only racial group with an organization
>> like the
>> World Jewish congress which wields fearsome power!
>>
>> Dr.Edw. R. Fields
>
iceman
"Balios" <Poseiod...@Illiad.com> wrote in message
news:PoseiodonsGift-...@192.168.0.2...
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> World War II was without doubt the costliest war in military history. No
> truly accurate figures exist and estimates can be only roughly
> approximated. Somewhere between 15 and 20 million military personnel were
> killed in action and another 25 to 30 million civilians probably died as a
> result of the indiscriminate bombings, artillery barrages, and savage
> fighting.
>
> Military Dead
>
> Among the Allies, the USSR had the heaviest battle casualties, with about
> 7.5 million dead. China lost 2.2 million combatants; the British about
> 300,000; the United States 292,000; and France 210,000. A TOTAL of 10.5
> million
>
> Among the Axis powers, Germany suffered about 3.5 million battle dead;
> Japan 1.5 million; and Italy 200,000. A TOTAL of 5.2 million
>
> Civilian Dead
>
> The USSR lost between 10 and 30 million civilians; China at least 6
> million; France about 400,000; the United Kingdom 65,000; and the United
> States 6,000. A TOTAL of 16.5 million
>
> On the Axis side, 500 - 700,000 German civilians were killed; 600 -
> 700,000 died in Japan; and 150,000 in Italy. A TOTAL of 1.5 million
>
> These figures are in addition to the approximately 6 million Jews, mostly
> from Eastern Europe, who were systematically murdered by the Germans.
>
>
>
> ESTIMATED TOTAL CASUALTIES = 50 Million plus
Source? USA only had 6,000 fatalities?
iceman
"Balios" <Poseiod...@Illiad.com> wrote in message
news:PoseiodonsGift-...@192.168.0.2...
>
> Country Initial Jewish Population Estimated % Killed Estimated Killed
> Number of Survivors
>
>
> POLAND 3,300,000 91% 3,000,000 300,000
> USSR 3,020,000 36% 1,100,000 1,920,000
> HUNGARY 800,000 74% 596,000 204,000
> GERMANY 566,000 36% 200,000 366,000
> FRANCE 350,000 22% 77,320 272,680
> ROMANIA 342,000 84% 287,000 55,000
> AUSTRIA 185,000 35% 65,000 120,000
> LITHUANIA 168,000 85% 143,000 25,000
> NETHERLANDS 140,000 71% 100,000 40,000
> BOHEMIA
> MORAVIA 118,310 60% 71,150 47,160
> LATVIA 95,000 84% 80,000 15,000
> SLOVAKIA 88,950 80% 71,000 17,950
> YUGOSLAVIA 78,000 81% 63,300 14,700
> GREECE 77,380 87% 67,000 10,380
> BELGIUM 65,700 45% 28,900 36,800
> ITALY 44,500 17% 7,680 36,820
> BULGARIA 50,000 0% 50,000
> DENMARK 7,800 .8% 60 7,740
> ESTONIA 4,500 44% 2,000 2,500
> LUXEMBOURG 3,500 55% 1,950 1,550
> FINLAND 2,000 .03% 7 1,993
> NORWAY 1,700 45% 762 938
> TOTAL 9,508,340 63% 5,962,129 3,546,211
Source?
Russ T. Nale
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/exclusions/holocausthome.xml
--
Russ T. Nale
God is still speaking
http://www.stillspeaking.com
To send e-mail, remove "youhat" from address
Poseidon
Violence is the method of those who have lost the argument. See:
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/victims/index.html
For those who still think that terror attacks are carried out by the
likes of "suicidal Muslims" or "right wing extremists" (as claimed by
governments in the official accounts), an article of mine at:
http://www.takeourworldback.com/zionistcrimes.htm
identifies the true perpetrators, along with explaining the purpose of
WWI, WWII, the setting up of the Holocaustianity religion, etc.
z
iceman wrote:
> "Balios" <Poseiod...@Illiad.com> wrote in message
> news:PoseiodonsGift-...@192.168.0.2...
> >
> > The recent opening of the German archives has added miles of original
> > documents to those miles already existing
> >
> > Holocaust denial is an attempt to sanitise Nazism and fascism - making
> > them attractive to a new genration ill informed by a bad education system
> > and a church which is full of shite
> >
>
> that says anything a Jew finds offensive!! This is the first and conclusive
> clue --the Zionists push for legislantion around the world to punish....the
> thought police. The question needs to be settled once and for all. There
> was no mention in any of the memoirs, Eisenhower, Churchill, etc... of WWII
> of any mass killings of Jews--and the omission is glaring. The last 3
> months of the war saw deaths from disease and starvation widesspread thruout
> the country. The Jews who were in the work camps survived in higher
> percentages than did the German civilians in Dresdin, Berlin, other German
> cities.
>
> All those Holocaust museums you built are nothing but "Guilt factories" of a
> gigantic hoax..
The logic behind Holocaust denial:
Axiom 1: The Jews control the US.
Axiom 2: The Jews will not permit any questioning of the Holocaust.
Syllogism 1: Therefore, In the US, unlike many other countries, you can
freely deny the Holocaust all you want, not to mention emit what other
antisemitic babble you feel the need for.
If that makes sense to you, then you too may be a Holocaust Revisionist!
Poseidon
The conclusion is not supported by the evidence. Germar Rudolf and
Ernst Zundel were both deported from the US to a German jail (Zundel's
treatment included a little over two years' solitary confinement in
Canada). The syllogism should be:
Axiom 1: A Zionist cabal has great influence upon US policy.
Axiom 2: The Zionist cabal would like to suppress all questioning of
the "Holocaust".
Syllogism 1: Free speech in the US persists to a greater degree than in
Germany or Israel; however, citizens of a country with "Holocaust
denial" laws do not enjoy free speech in the US since they may be
abducted and deported to their country of origin.
z
So... Americans who speak out against the Holocaust will be deported
from America to America. Wow, that's harsh.
Scotius
wrote:
>
>
>The Most Debated Question of Our Time
If your name is Ernst Zundel, yes. And gee, doesn't he just
pack in the scholars at his lectures?
>WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST?
>By Dr. Edward.R. Fields
>
z
Falcon wrote:
> Plenty are government sponsored, it is just that we do not call it
> genocide, we call it abortion and pretend they are not really a group
> of little people being killed by the millions. Even though they may
> not be any particular racial/ethnic group, infanticide is no
> different than the wholesale slaughter of any other group and as far
> as I know the good ol' USA leads the pack and protects the so-called
> right to commit that particular murder.
Well, I'm sure your motives are good, but you seem to be promoting
misinformation.
Abortions per year
Region per 1000 women 15-44 Per 100
pregnancies
Overall 35 26
Developed regions 39 42
Excluding Eastern Europe 20 26
Developing regions 34 23
Excluding China 33 20
Africa 33 15
Eastern Africa 41 16
Middle Africa 35 14
Northern Africa 17 12
Southern Africa 19 12
Western Africa 37 15
Asia 33 25
Eastern Asia 36 34
South-central Asia 28 18
South-eastern Asia 40 28
Western Asia 32 20
Europe 48 48
Eastern Europe 90 65
Northern Europe 18 23
Southern Europe 24 34
Western Europe 11 17
Latin America 37 27
Caribbean 50 35
Central America 30 21
South America 39 30
Northern America 22 26
Oceania 21 20