#Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks

[2966 Dead]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/quebec-passes-law-to-restrict-
protests-ban-wearing-masks/

Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks
By Agence France-Presse
Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT




MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.

The francophone province’s assembly passed a law after a marathon two-day
session requiring groups of more than 10 people to inform police in
advance when they plan to hold a demonstration, and provide the location,
time and duration of the event.

On its heels, the city of Montreal also passed a bylaw prohibiting
wearing masks after several cloaked protesters smashed storefronts and
clashed with police during demonstrations continuing into a 14th week
amid a deadlock in negotiations.

Fines for breaches of the two laws range from $500 to $250,000. An
exception to the no-mask rule, however, is allowed for the Halloween
holiday.

Students, unions and the opposition party criticized the government over
the emergency law, with one former premier calling it “barbaric.”

Louis Masson, president of the Quebec Bar Association representing 24,000
lawyers, said it goes too far by restricting fundamental “freedoms of
expression… to a point that begs the question, who would now dare
protest.”

Before the emergency law was unveiled, a majority of Quebecers had backed
the government on the need for a hike in school fees of more than $1,700
to help reduce a budget deficit.

But many also said Quebec Premier Jean Charest had mismanaged the crisis,
according to polls.

The student demonstrations culminated Monday with the resignation of
Quebec’s education minister and rising political star, Line Beauchamp,
following a standoff when 165,000 students rejected a tentative deal last
week to stretch tuition hike over seven years instead of five.

“When laws are unjust, sometimes you have to disregard them, and we’re
seriously thinking about this now,” student leader Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois
said about the emergency measure.

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Not dead, in jail or a slave? Thank a liberal!

[wy]

The students only brought this upon themselves. They had a simple
grievance that could've easily been solved, which the government
managed to find a way to deal with when they originally arrived at
half-a-dozen very sensible proposals, but then students wanted none of
the reasonable offerings, they simply demanded more, and kept
demanding more, going beyond their original grievance. It's like they
became drunk by their own protesting ability and lost sight of what
they were complaining about in the first place. I sided with them at
the beginning with some of their issues but thought their griping over
tuition fees was idiotic - Quebec's fees are the lowest in North
America, almost insanely so. But the government agreed to spread out
the increases to seven years instead of five, to minimize the annual
increases, which would've been only a few hundred bucks extra per year
and all the students had to do was save an extra buck a day to afford
that increase. But noooooo, that would be toooo haaaarrrrddd for them
to do. Anyway, the government then came up with another set of
proposals that went beyond their original set and again they were all
very reasonable sounding. This time the student leadership accepted,
but the rank and file outrightly rejected it, with no explanation as
to why. So clearly, the students have gotten out of hand, verging on
anarchy, and the government had little choice but to try to control
the situation by passing the law, which most people favor since
they're already fed up with these rebels without a cause. This is a
clear-cut example of the difference between constructive protest and
destructive protest, with the former yielding results and solutions
and the latter resorting to restrictive laws. At this point, it's not
at all certain as to how this'll all be resolved, but one can only
hope the students end up at their parents' cottages for the summer or,
better yet, get a job in the real world so they could afford their
tiny tuition hikes and get off the streets already.

[Tracey12]

Does anyone think that Canadians are truly free?

[2966 Dead]

Right or wrong, I think the government response is a serious mistake and
reflects poorly on Quebec. How would you feel if the folks in Toronto --
or Ottawa -- passed similar measures?

[David Hartung]

On 05/19/2012 09:06 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/quebec-passes-law-to-restrict-
> protests-ban-wearing-masks/
>
> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks
> By Agence France-Presse
> Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>
>
>
>
> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.

Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
Perhaps these students should grow up.

[wy]

You think they haven't in the past? What do you think the G20 Summit
was all about? It was a police state in Toronto at the time. What do
you think Prime Minister Trudeau's use of the military to quell a
Quebec rebellion by separatists was about in the 70s? Things had
gotten out of hand back then when a provincial minister was killed by
the separatists and bombings were going on, but the military making
their presence felt certainly had a pacifying effect on those
separatists.

Protesting is fine as long as it doesn't turn into anarchy to disrupt
a democratic society and the majority of people's lives who remain
unaffected by whatever is being protested against. This is just a
stupid student grievance in which the students simply lost site of
their original issues as they got more inebriated by their self-
instilled power to deal with the government and infatuated by their
own news media conferences. They just became too full of themselves
and now it's more about having fun protesting with their buddies every
night just for the sake of protesting (because social media on their
computers isn't as much fun) than fighting for any solution to their
problems - solutions that were already accepted by the leadership, but
rejected by the rabble. But Quebec has had a long history of stupid
protesting, mainly because the French are basically bored in their own
province, having trapped themselves in it the way they have, and
putting the screws to the protests when they get out of hand always
seems to work here.

[wy]

On May 19, 12:09 pm, Tracey12 <tracey12em...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Does anyone think that Canadians are truly free?

Are all the store owners along the main street of downtown truly free
when they can't run their businesses safely for fear having their
windows smashed every night and being looted sometimes? Are car
owners truly free when they leave their cars parked on the streets and
they get vandalized by the protesters? Are taxpayers truly free in
not having to cough up the tens of millions of dollars it's already
cost the city in police crowd control and overtime costs? Is Montreal
truly free for foreign tourists who would like to visit an otherwise
generally safe city but get all these negative reports of what's going
on, so they pass and the city ends up losing tourist dollars? Being
truly free is a two-way street, simpleton, it's not only about what
one side wants. Boy, you're stupid.

[wy]

No, just Quebec. It's Canada's spoiled province. Like I said, you
haven't got a clue as to what socialism really is until you've been in
Quebec, so the US has nothing to worry about with Obama. I don't mind
the province myself and its socialist ways and usually things work out
fine in those ways, if perhaps needlessly too generous in certain
areas from my p.o.v., but something like this is really ridiculous
when the students fail to see the big picture of how lucky they are
with the tuition fees they do pay and how minimal the increases really
are. Of course, the irony to all of this is that most of those
complaining about the increases will already be out of school in the
next year or two or three, so it really won't affect them that much -
unless they all plan on being life-long students.

> Perhaps these students should grow up.

I'll agree with that. But nobody really grows up until they hit their
late 20s, and even then, they're only just beginning to grow up.

[David Hartung]

On 05/19/2012 11:39 AM, wy wrote:
>But nobody really grows up until they hit their
> late 20s, and even then, they're only just beginning to grow up.

Really?

My generation of Americans had to grow up much earlier. By the time we
were 20, most of us were out earning our own way in the world.

[wy]

Yeah. Your generation. I see how much The Three Stooges and Jerry
Lewis grew up. But "earning your way in the world" doesn't solely
equate with "growing up". There's a thing called "intelligence," you
know. You can earn all the living you want, but if you're still
stupid, then you're stupid. Something people with low IQs would kind
of forget about.

[David Hartung]

And once again our discussion ends with you falling back on calling names.

Have a blessed day.

[wy]

Where was the name calling?

[2966 Dead]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 09:09:20 -0700, Tracey12 wrote:

> Does anyone think that Canadians are truly free?

You're from America. You have no moral authority to ask that question.

[2966 Dead]

In fairness, here's the student side of the issue. I note that back in
the 60s, California had the finest universities in the world--and they
were tuition-free for state residents. Reagan came along, and they
started the same course that Quebec is on now. And people were
unsympathetic to students who protested then, too.

Now, the once-proud UC system is a shadow of itself, and the tuitions are
five figure and up. The only way to get through college now is to either
have very rich parents, be lucky enough to get one of the relatively few
scholarships available, and/or cripple yourself for life with immense
debt.

I don't approve of the violence, but I do think the students are
essentially in the right.

[2966 Dead]

And maybe watch Quebec turn into another Mississippi.

[David Hartung]

Interesting. Not being from California, this is new to me so I did some
looking. Is thei what you refer to? http://tinyurl.com/3d27qbt

[David Hartung]

Mississippi's commitment to quality affordable post secondary education
is longstanding. IN addition we are home to at least three world class
universities.

[wy]

The students got what they originally wanted, the government gave it
to them and more. But either the leadership didn't believe in what
they agreed to and couldn't sell it to the rank and file or they just
won't be able to sell any agreement at all because the students
themselves are now at a point where they're not only trying to extract
even more than what they began with, but seem to want to bring down
the government itself. Over tuition hikes of $300? Are they crazy?
But that's the mindset of the French here, and it's the French running
the show, not the English students. Every once in a while the French
here contract strike or protest fever because, like I said, they're
bored in Quebec, it's the way it is here. And as in the past, these
things run their course and it's done and everybody goes back into
hibernation mode until they get all antsy again. It's just a matter
of letting this run its course and with summer approaching and their
semester cancelled now till August, I think that more than anything
else will kill the protest in the coming weeks.

But it hasn't affected, nor will it affect, the quality of the
education they get here because a university like McGill has always
been one of the top ranked in the world through thick and thin - it's
the top ranked in Canada and the first university outside of the US to
appear on the top 20 list, at No. 17. No, what the students seem to
want now, without really explaining what more they really want,
appears to go way beyond their original complaints. A more effective
way to get more out of the government is if they had done it in
stages, first settle on the original complaints, then see how they
work out, and if there's anything else to complain about six months
later, bring those up. Instead, they came to the table with just a
few items on their list and then decided to expand them into a global
overview of how the entire university system should operate in Quebec,
how things should be run, who should do what, how much educators and
administrators should get paid, what the janitors' role should be (I
wouldn't be surprised if they included that in), and on and on and on
and on. If they want to run the universities, well, they should
finish their education first and then get a job in the administration
of a university. The population here sympathized with them up to a
point, and now it's well past that point and most people are looking
for an end to it. Only the students, with too much time on their
hands, are thinking otherwise.

[wy]

I don't know what world you're talking about, except Third World,
because you'd have to go far down the list to see any of them here (I
gave up after 200):

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011

[2966 Dead]

Did I neglect to put up the link? If so, here it is again:
http://quebectuitionfees.ca/

Actually the hikes appear to be about $1625 which is a pretty significant
hike.

As I said, I watched a university system superior to Quebec's collapse
into near ruin, and this is precisely how it began.

I don't have an issue with the response of ending the semester early. I
do have a problem with the notion of curfews and banning the wearing of
masks. I expect that from Americans; not Canadians.

[2966 Dead]

You're joking, right? Academically, neither Ole Miss or MSU have even
been in the top 500 since 2006, a ranking that in Quebec is known as
"high school". http://www.shanghairanking.com/Search.jsp

[MattB]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 16:10:57 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
wrote:

After the last OWS riot in Seattle they need a similar law.

[David Hartung]

OK, I can accept that. Perhaps it might be better to state that we are
home to 8 quality public universities and colleges. As an historic
trivia, the first ever heart transplant was done at the University
Medical Center in Jackson MS.

Mississippi also has, and has had for many years, 15 public
community/Jr. colleges. All this in a state with a population of under
three million people.

We may have our problems, but there are some things we do right. Our
post secondary education man not be the absolute top, but they do a good
job at what they do.

Now if we could just get our primary and secondary schools up to snuff.

[2966 Dead]

Put it this way: If Ontario still has grade 13, then Ole Miss is just
about at the same academic level as a typical high school in Ottawa.

[2966 Dead]

If any OWS were involved. It's pretty stupid to stage a stunt like that
the day before a major demonstration is planned, and I strongly doubt
anyone in OWS was involved with it. But it plays SO WELL into the hands
of corporate interests, don't you think?

Let's see how many demonstrators get beaten to a pulp and slammed into
prison over the weekend in Chicago. I wonder if they'll shut down the
social media like they tried to do in Cairo.

[Steve]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 22:12:35 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>

Here's porky Jamieson, who flunked out of school, talking about the
quality of education.

"When I was In high school, I loved getting drunk and tearing
around in the mountains of Central California."
--David B.(Zepp) Jamieson Dec 7 1999
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.misc/msg/7230848ec0c07282?hl=en&

[2966 Dead]

Berkely is the best of them (others, such as UC Santa Barbara, are also
in the top 50), but overall, the UC system is a shadow of itself. And
tuition costs have gone up sharply since Jacobson wrote that piece. 50%
or more.

[wy]

Of course, it's a site put up by students which neglects to tell the
whole story, as they've been doing so far. Listen, I live here, I
know what's going.

At about $350 per year over 5 years, it's not $1625 as one-time hit.
And after those 5 years, the fees will still rank as the lowest in
Canada and the US after everyone else increases their fees over the
next 5 years, as is very likely. Currently, the average annual fee is
about $2000 per year.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/tuition-canada/

So originally the students were complaining about an additional $350
to that $2000 for next year. Get a summer job or stop buying stupid
computer games and you'll have your extra $350.

>
> As I said, I watched a university system superior to Quebec's collapse
> into near ruin, and this is precisely how it began.

Huge difference between Canadian and US universities. The fee
structure and all other goodies never existed in the US system that
exists in the Canadian one. Remember, we're more socialistic up here,
we try to accommodate as many as we can, not just the rich snots whose
daddies can afford it for them while feeling no pity for those
financially disadvantaged struggling to make ends meet. Back in the
late 60s and early 70s, one could go to Concordia for a tuition fee of
$500-$600 and McGill for under $1,000. Was that possible in the US
back then? I hardly think not. It hasn't changed much today either
because where in the US can you get a decent university education for
a fee of $2000 per year? Like, nowhere. So this is why the students
get less support now the more they drag this on.

>
> I don't have an issue with the response of ending the semester early.  I
> do have a problem with the notion of curfews and banning the wearing of
> masks.  I expect that from Americans; not Canadians.

I don't know about the rest of Canada, but the French in Quebec are a
different breed. They wouldn't think twice about bombings, beginning
with smoke bombing the subway system the other week and shutting the
whole system down at rush hour for a few hours, and then gradually
intensifying it with more heavy-duty kind of bombings. They've done
it before, they can do it again. Hell, the French were even ready to
break up the entire country back in '95 when a provincial referendum
saw the separatists losing by just a literal hair. But you see, they
have their little squawk, they lose on their idea of an independent
nation, they bite the bullet and then they move on until they have
something else to bitch about. But when they bitch, it doesn't come
without a price to innocent bystanders like store owners, businesses,
the local economy, car owners who get their vehicles vandalized.
After 14 weeks of that, it gets to be a bit much and the only thing
the French understand is a government fist in their faces. It's like
the old saying goes, spare the rod, spoil the French child.

[MattB]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 22:18:53 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>

wrote:

>On Sat, 19 May 2012 14:07:29 -0700, MattB wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 19 May 2012 16:10:57 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 19 May 2012 08:34:08 -0700, wy wrote:
>>>
>>>> On May 19, 10:06 am, 2966 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/quebec-passes-law-to-restrict-
>>>>> protests-ban-wearing-masks/
>>>>>
>>>>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>>>>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>>>>

>>>>> MONTREAL ? Authorities in Canada?s Quebec province passed emergency

>>>>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
>>>>> after months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition
>>>>> hikes.
>>>>>

>>>>> The francophone province?s assembly passed a law after a marathon

>>>>> two-day session requiring groups of more than 10 people to inform
>>>>> police in advance when they plan to hold a demonstration, and provide
>>>>> the location, time and duration of the event.
>>>>>
>>>>> On its heels, the city of Montreal also passed a bylaw prohibiting
>>>>> wearing masks after several cloaked protesters smashed storefronts
>>>>> and clashed with police during demonstrations continuing into a 14th
>>>>> week amid a deadlock in negotiations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fines for breaches of the two laws range from $500 to $250,000. An
>>>>> exception to the no-mask rule, however, is allowed for the Halloween
>>>>> holiday.
>>>>>
>>>>> Students, unions and the opposition party criticized the government
>>>>> over the emergency law, with one former premier calling it

>>>>> ?barbaric.?

>>>>>
>>>>> Louis Masson, president of the Quebec Bar Association representing
>>>>> 24,000 lawyers, said it goes too far by restricting fundamental

>>>>> ?freedoms of expression? to a point that begs the question, who
>would
>>>>> now dare protest.?

>>>>>
>>>>> Before the emergency law was unveiled, a majority of Quebecers had
>>>>> backed the government on the need for a hike in school fees of more
>>>>> than $1,700 to help reduce a budget deficit.
>>>>>
>>>>> But many also said Quebec Premier Jean Charest had mismanaged the
>>>>> crisis, according to polls.
>>>>>
>>>>> The student demonstrations culminated Monday with the resignation of

>>>>> Quebec?s education minister and rising political star, Line

>>>>> Beauchamp, following a standoff when 165,000 students rejected a
>>>>> tentative deal last week to stretch tuition hike over seven years
>>>>> instead of five.
>>>>>

>>>>> ?When laws are unjust, sometimes you have to disregard them, and
>>>>> we?re seriously thinking about this now,? student leader Gabriel

Who knows the owe me crowd aren't to logical.

>
>Let's see how many demonstrators get beaten to a pulp and slammed into
>prison over the weekend in Chicago. I wonder if they'll shut down the
>social media like they tried to do in Cairo.

Hopefully both sides will obey the law. Well Who know Obama just
might shut down the web. That is part of a police State. Democrats
love police States.

[David Hartung]

Interesting

[David Hartung]

John Grisham would probably disagree with you, having earned an
undergraduate degree from Mississippi State, and a JD from Ole Miss.

[2966 Dead]

I don't think he would disagree too strenuously. His official bio on his
website doesn't even mention his college background.

[2966 Dead]

Well, I did say it was the other side of the story. It's not getting
much coverage in the press, at least, not down here.

And that's what they're afraid of. Quebec is still far from a prosperous
province outside of Montreal and QC.

>
> So originally the students were complaining about an additional $350 to
> that $2000 for next year. Get a summer job or stop buying stupid
> computer games and you'll have your extra $350.
>

Probably true. And there actually ARE jobs available there.

>
>
>> As I said, I watched a university system superior to Quebec's collapse
>> into near ruin, and this is precisely how it began.
>
> Huge difference between Canadian and US universities. The fee structure
> and all other goodies never existed in the US system that exists in the
> Canadian one. Remember, we're more socialistic up here,
> we try to accommodate as many as we can, not just the rich snots whose
> daddies can afford it for them while feeling no pity for those
> financially disadvantaged struggling to make ends meet. Back in the
> late 60s and early 70s, one could go to Concordia for a tuition fee of
> $500-$600 and McGill for under $1,000. Was that possible in the US back
> then? I hardly think not. It hasn't changed much today either because
> where in the US can you get a decent university education for a fee of
> $2000 per year? Like, nowhere. So this is why the students get less
> support now the more they drag this on.

California had a similar setup that was deliberately kicked apart by
Republicans.

>
>
>
>> I don't have an issue with the response of ending the semester early.
>>  I do have a problem with the notion of curfews and banning the wearing
>> of masks.  I expect that from Americans; not Canadians.
>
> I don't know about the rest of Canada, but the French in Quebec are a
> different breed. They wouldn't think twice about bombings, beginning
> with smoke bombing the subway system the other week and shutting the
> whole system down at rush hour for a few hours, and then gradually
> intensifying it with more heavy-duty kind of bombings. They've done it
> before, they can do it again. Hell, the French were even ready to break
> up the entire country back in '95 when a provincial referendum saw the
> separatists losing by just a literal hair. But you see, they have their
> little squawk, they lose on their idea of an independent nation, they
> bite the bullet and then they move on until they have something else to
> bitch about. But when they bitch, it doesn't come without a price to
> innocent bystanders like store owners, businesses, the local economy,
> car owners who get their vehicles vandalized. After 14 weeks of that, it
> gets to be a bit much and the only thing the French understand is a
> government fist in their faces. It's like the old saying goes, spare
> the rod, spoil the French child.

Outside of religious crackpots, the last politically motivated bombings
were in what, 1968? It's not like Baghdad, exactly. They're still more
prone to riot over the Habs rather than the Habs not.

Statements like "the only thing those people understand is a punch in the
face" when translated to policy, always end badly. Always. They may
gain an understanding, but it certainly will not be the one you're hoping
for. One reason for Canada's success and stability is that Canadians have
generally managed to avoid that mindset.

[2966 Dead]

I don't know about that. They aren't the ones whining that if we give
all our money to the superrich, the rich will be nice to us.

>>
>>Let's see how many demonstrators get beaten to a pulp and slammed into
>>prison over the weekend in Chicago. I wonder if they'll shut down the
>>social media like they tried to do in Cairo.
>
> Hopefully both sides will obey the law. Well Who know Obama just
> might shut down the web. That is part of a police State. Democrats
> love police States.

Dick Cheney is a Democrat? I had no idea!

[MattB]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 02:29:19 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>

Well strange both the extreme right and the extreme left want to
take from the middle class. They just differ on who to give it to.

>>>
>>>Let's see how many demonstrators get beaten to a pulp and slammed into
>>>prison over the weekend in Chicago. I wonder if they'll shut down the
>>>social media like they tried to do in Cairo.
>>
>> Hopefully both sides will obey the law. Well Who know Obama just
>> might shut down the web. That is part of a police State. Democrats
>> love police States.
>
>Dick Cheney is a Democrat? I had no idea!

He and Obama are much alike. Both are liars.

[wy]

The US is no place to be relying on only American media to get any
side of any story. Right now all of US media is owned by just 6
corporations. According to Dan Rather in his just-released book, 50
different corporations ran competing news media empires 40 years ago
and that's why people were better informed in a broader sense about
real news stories, not about 4-year-old kids still sucking on their
mom's boobs or labeling Obama as the "first gay president" complete
with a rainbow halo (when did Obama turn gay?). Big Brother isn't the
government as much as it's the 6 media conglomerates that control what
you read and see in order to shape your views for whatever agenda they
have in mind that may or may not conform to what the government wants
and to keep you ignorant of what's really going on the world and
what's really at stake. How do you think Dan Rather got the boot from
CBS about six years ago? Viacom didn't like his story on Bush's days
in the military and pressure came down from the Bush people to get him
dumped. You'd do well to bookmark several international sites if for
more varied perspectives if you want some kind of a glimpse as to what
the other side, or even both sides, of any story is.

Quebec survives on the handouts of other provinces. Canada is a
federation whereby the have provinces hand over to the have-not
provinces in order to try to equalize wealth and services across the
board. Quebec has been a have-not province for ages and the Quebec
government is never going to give that up because they know a good
deal when they have it, which too many of the French population don't
see or don't know themselves. For example, there's a reason why
Quebec's hydro power system won't produce more than it can, and it can
produce a hell of a lot - because if they did, then the revenue they'd
receive from it would tip Quebec from a have-not to a have province
and that won't do for them, so they just keep their hydro output under
the wire so as to claim poverty and keep getting handouts from other
provinces and the feds themselves. There's no need to feel sorry for
Quebec, the government here knows what it's doing and how to play the
game to their advantage, they've perfected the tricks over the last
150 years.

>
> > So originally the students were complaining about an additional $350 to
> > that $2000 for next year.  Get a summer job or stop buying stupid
> > computer games and you'll have your extra $350.
>
> Probably true.  And there actually ARE jobs available there.

Depends on what kind. Overall, Quebec's rate often trends higher than
the rest of the country. It's at 8% now compared to the national 7.3%
rate. While a lot of English students are from out of province, they
can always go back home for the summer and find work more easily
there. It can be a bit harder for those in Montreal to get jobs,
especially since a lot of jobs require French knowledge and a lot of
English kids still don't have a grasp of that language. But then, can
you blame them? French is spoken so atrociously by the French here
that even people from France don't understand it, and I kid you not.

> >> As I said, I watched a university system superior to Quebec's collapse
> >> into near ruin, and this is precisely how it began.
>
> > Huge difference between Canadian and US universities.  The fee structure
> > and all other goodies never existed in the US system that exists in the
> > Canadian one.  Remember, we're more socialistic up here,
> > we try to accommodate as many as we can, not just the rich snots whose
> > daddies can afford it for them while feeling no pity for those
> > financially disadvantaged struggling to make ends meet.  Back in the
> > late 60s and early 70s, one could go to Concordia for a tuition fee of
> > $500-$600 and McGill for under $1,000.  Was that possible in the US back
> > then?  I hardly think not.  It hasn't changed much today either because
> > where in the US can you get a decent university education for a fee of
> > $2000 per year?  Like, nowhere.  So this is why the students get less
> > support now the more they drag this on.
>
> California had a similar setup that was deliberately kicked apart by
> Republicans.

As I read it, Reagan's battle with the university was more ideological
than financial. It was out of that ideological battle that he sought
to "punish" the students by imposing tuition fees. I recall all that
having taken place back then, having seen it on the news up here, but
the story and details were lost on me since then until I came across
this:

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/06/08_reagan.shtml

The protest here isn't one of ideology, but simply financial, at least
at the beginning, which has since mushroomed to encompass practically
anything and everything related to the university system. There was
and still is nothing political about the situation other than maybe
now wanting to bring the government down over it, but that's more out
of frustration on the students' part than politics. This is why I
think this'll all deflate over the next few weeks because the students
just got way too ahead of themselves on this, they should've accepted
the last offer that the leaders accepted and then just move on from
there. Whatever other issues there would be next year, deal with
those at that time.

> >> I don't have an issue with the response of ending the semester early.
> >>  I do have a problem with the notion of curfews and banning the wearing
> >> of masks.  I expect that from Americans; not Canadians.
>
> > I don't know about the rest of Canada, but the French in Quebec are a
> > different breed.  They wouldn't think twice about bombings, beginning
> > with smoke bombing the subway system the other week and shutting the
> > whole system down at rush hour for a few hours, and then gradually
> > intensifying it with more heavy-duty kind of bombings.  They've done it
> > before, they can do it again.  Hell, the French were even ready to break
> > up the entire country back in '95 when a provincial referendum saw the
> > separatists losing by just a literal hair.  But you see, they have their
> > little squawk, they lose on their idea of an independent nation, they
> > bite the bullet and then they move on until they have something else to
> > bitch about.  But when they bitch, it doesn't come without a price to
> > innocent bystanders like store owners, businesses, the local economy,
> > car owners who get their vehicles vandalized. After 14 weeks of that, it
> > gets to be a bit much and the only thing the French understand is a
> > government fist in their faces.  It's like the old saying goes, spare
> > the rod, spoil the French child.
>
> Outside of religious crackpots, the last politically motivated bombings
> were in what, 1968?  It's not like Baghdad, exactly.  They're still more
> prone to riot over the Habs rather than the Habs not.

About 10 years ago there were a few fire bombings of Second Cup
shops. A former terrorist from the separatist FLQ days of the 60s was
found responsible. His reason: the Second Cup name on the coffee
shops' signs wasn't in French. That's how demented they get here.
But it blew over with a government fist in his face and he's behaved
ever since after time served in prison.

>
> Statements like "the only thing those people understand is a punch in the
> face" when translated to policy, always end badly.

No, the only thing they understand is a government fist in their faces
- metaphorically speaking.

> Always.  They may
> gain an understanding, but it certainly will not be the one you're hoping
> for. One reason for Canada's success and stability is that Canadians have
> generally managed to avoid that mindset.

But we resort to it when really needed, so as to ensure that success
and stability are maintained. Look, we're not immune to malcontents
just because we live in Canada. Fortunately, though, we don't have as
many of them as there seems to be in the US.

[David Hartung]

Just out of curiosity, how does this compare to Canada?

[wy]

We've got about half-a-dozen conglomerates controlling most of the
news media here, too. But the difference is twofold: we have one-
tenth of the US population, meaning by that standard the US should
still have 50 or 60 major owners to service a population that's 10
times as large as ours, not just 6 conglomerates; and also
journalistic standards in Canada are, shall we say, "purer" than in
the US. For TV news I'd trust either CBC or CTV over any of the US
networks because both regularly spend more time on stories that matter
than do the US networks. There are also more international stories
featured on both those networks than on the US networks, so our
awareness and understanding of what's going on in the world overall,
not just within our borders, is much greater than that of the typical
American. News anchors here rarely view the stories from the
perspective of "how will it affect us at home" when the real story is
how it's actually affecting those in other parts of the world,
something US networks regularly ignore, that's why Americans are
largely clued out about other countries and what's going on there.
More of the news delivered here is real news as opposed to fluff
pieces that are too often seen on the US networks. Even the cable
news network takes a harder news approach and is more about
investigative journalism than you find on CNN or any of the other
cable news networks in the States. I often tune in on the cable news
network around 2 pm for the Parliament question period aired live from
the House of Commons just to get a kick out of the government and the
opposition going at each other's throats, while later at 5 pm for two
hours every day the government activities, policies, programs,
proposals, controversies and scandals are dissected with a fine-tooth
comb for a better understanding of what the hell is going on with any
or all of them as they become issues of the day. I look at US news on
TV and all I see is Americans watching Alice in Wonderland and
thinking they're actually being informed when all they're being spoon-
fed are little more than cute sound bites and then they come out of
the news program just as dumb as they enter it. I know I feel pretty
dumb after sitting through a US half-hour nightly news program, that's
why I have to tune into Canadian news to get all the blanks filled
in. Although, if you're going to watch any news and get any glimmer
of understanding of issues and world events in America, the nightly
PBS News Hour is probably as close you'll get to it down there and
some of that network's documentaries (notably Frontline) almost, but
not quite, rival those produced by our CBC or the ones we get from
Britain. So again, the mindset is different between Canada and the
US. We might have conglomerate control, but we still appear to be
more respectful of the news media and the importance of its
independence and the expectation we still have of it being much more
informative and considerably less biased than almost anything US media
can deliver these days. Time was when the US networks did produce
hardcore news programming, back in its heyday of the 60s and 70s, but
that seemed to fade out as the 1980s faded out and you've been living
on helium for news ever since.

[2966 Dead]

Now you're just lying, cupcakes. Occupy doesn't want to increase taxes
on the middle class.

[MattB]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 04:23:39 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>

So how will they get all the money they want. I mean just free
college alone will cost HOW MUCH? What tax rate do you want? Then
at what level will it start?

Please tell me this. People making over 100K a year or what?

[Steve]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 04:23:39 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>

The occupy freaks just want more free stuff... They don't care who
pays for it as long as it is someone else..

[2966 Dead]

America has absolutely nothing that equates to the CBC. The public
broadcast down here, attacked and bullied by the right, are pale and
futile versions of what they once were (and at their peak never matched
CBC or BBC) reduced to ineffectual begger operations. On major
international stories I don't even bother with American media sources.
The Guardian, al Jazheera and the 'eebs will have the information, and
they'll do a whole lot better job with it.

Ken Winkleman has done two TV series: The Newsroom, which was about a
passive-aggressive sleazeball manager in a thinly-disguised CBC
television news room, and ten years later, Good God, which is about a
passive-aggressive sleazeball manager in a thinly-disguised Fox
television news room. It doesn't sound like much of a creative leap, and
it isn't, but the second one is far sharper edged, because rather than a
benign grey bureaucracy, Finkleman's character deals with a psychotic
right wing operation, headed by an unseen American billionaire whose
representative, is a bullying loon who uses a fake Irish accent to try
and charm people. In one memorable episode, they realize they
desperately need a black face in front of the cameras, and they hire a
desposed African dictator who has tortured tens of thousands of people to
death because "he's the only black guy whose politics the owner could
understand." He leaves only because his bodyguard ends up shooting the
janitor.

[Dänk 42Ø]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 14:06:03 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:

> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/quebec-passes-law-to-restrict-

> protests-ban-wearing-masks/
>
> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks

The issue of banning masks is important, because American liberals used
mask bans as a way to persecute members of the Ku Klux Klan, who wear
hooded robes during their ceremonies.

Not to defend the KKK, but it seems hypocritical to prohibit some people
from wearing masks in public while defending the right of others to cover
their faces. Also consider that leftists defend the right of Muslim
women to wear veils and even burqas in public, but would screech if they
saw a Klansman in a hood.

Michael Jackson was once detained and questioned by police after he
entered a Wal-Mart wearing a ski mask. Police ordered him to remove his
mask for identification. If he entered the store wearing a burqa, Wal-
Mart would never have called the police, and police would not dare ask
him to uncover his face. In fact, this is why MJ moved to Bahrain, where
he was able to wear a burqa in public with nobody even noticing.

I guess my point is that leftards like Zepp are hypocrites, demanding
rights for themselves that they happily deny to others. Wearing a KKK
hood should be illegal because it offends them, but wearing a mass-
produced Guy Fawkes mask while throwing Molotov cocktails to protest
capitalism is a constitutional right. Either everybody should be allowed
to cover their faces in public, or nobody should.

- - - - - - - - -
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/21/nyregion/appeals-court-backs-ban-on-
masks-at-public-rallies.html

21 Jan 2004

A federal appeals court panel in Manhattan ruled yesterday that a state
law banning the wearing of masks at public gatherings is constitutional,
a decision that reverses a lower court's ruling in favor of Ku Klux
Klansmen who were barred from wearing masks at a 1999 event.

The lower court's ruling, by Judge Harold Baer Jr. of Federal District
Court in Manhattan, had found that the city enforced the mask law
selectively against the Church of the American Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan. The American Knights had argued that anonymous expression was a
protected right, and that the hooded masks linked members to Klan history
and were expressive of certain beliefs.

[2966 Dead]

And Baer was wrong. But then, he's not a liberal, is he?

[Sid9]

"wy" <w...@myself.com> wrote in message
news:aacc5fc5-6408-49a4...@i19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

> On May 19, 3:09 pm, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
>> On 05/19/2012 01:42 PM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

>> > On Sat, 19 May 2012 11:19:58 -0500, David Hartung wrote:
>>
>> >> On 05/19/2012 09:06 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:

>> >>>http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/quebec-passes-law-to-restrict-
>> >>> protests-ban-wearing-masks/
>>

>> >>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>> >>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>
>> >>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>> >>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
>> >>> after
>> >>> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition
>> >>> hikes.
>>
>> >> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?

>> >> Perhaps these students should grow up.
>>

>> > And maybe watch Quebec turn into another Mississippi.
>>
>> Mississippi's commitment to quality affordable post secondary education
>> is longstanding. IN addition we are home to at least three world class
>> universities.
>
> I don't know what world you're talking about, except Third World,
> because you'd have to go far down the list to see any of them here (I
> gave up after 200):
>
> http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011

Hartung is in an alternate universe!

http://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/stories/mississippi-ranks-last-in-science-education

Mississippi ranks last in science education
"A new ranking system shows that most schools are doing a poor job of
preparing students for science and engineering careers, with Mississippi
ranking the worst in the United States."

[Sid9]

Hartung needs to get his head out of his ass:

The South > Mississippi > Bottom Rankings
VIEW STATS: Popular All stats

Last
Economy > Median Family Income
Economy > Nest Egg Index
Education > Assessments > % of Students Above Advanced > Grade 8 Math
Education > Percent of People Who Have Completed High School (Including
Equivalency)
Health > Oral health > Visits to the dentist
Lifestyle > Best States to Live
Lifestyle > Children Ages 0-5 Who Are Read To Every Day, Percentage
Presidential Elections > 2004 > Popular Votes for Ralph Nader (per capita)
Transportation > Public Transportation > Federal funding, 1995 (per capita)
Transportation > Seat Belt Use

2nd last
Economy > Personal income (per capita)
Education > Assessments > % of Students Above Advanced > Grade 4 Math
Education > Assessments > % of Students Above Proficient > Grade 8 Writing
Education > Best Educated Index
Energy > Gas Price Average > Diesel
Health > Health Index
Health > Physical exercise
Housing > Median Housing Value of Owner-Occupied Housing Units
Lifestyle > Amusement Parks > Steel roller coasters (per capita)
People > Sex Ratio

3rd last
Education > Assessments > Scale Score, Grade 8 Math
Education > Bachelor's degree or higher, by percentage
Education > Percent of People Who Have Completed a Bachelor's Degree
Education > Public Libraries > Library Visits per Capita
Energy > Gas Price Average > Regular
Housing > Median Monthly Housing Costs for Owner-occupied Housing Units With
a Mortgage
Lifestyle > Amusement Parks > Total roller coasters
Lifestyle > Restaurants (per capita)
People > Estimated number of Illegal Immigrants (per capita)
People > Percent of People Who are White Alone

http://www.statemaster.com/state/ms/Bottom-Rankings

At least Hartung contributes to Mississippi's standings.

[Sid9]

"MattB" <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:t2ngr7thiubi7kb9u...@4ax.com...

.
.
.
More phony equivalence to excuse what Cheney/ bush,jr died to our country

[2966 Dead]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 21:46:14 -0400, Sid9 wrote:

> "wy" <w...@myself.com> wrote in message

> news:aacc5fc5-6408-49a4-
bdc9-2a3...@i19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr. Hartung has left the thread...

[Sid9]

"2966 Dead" <de...@gone.com> wrote in message
news:jpca22$gqr$6...@dont-email.me...

.
.
He's in his other alternate universe.

[MattB.]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 22:05:11 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net>
wrote:

Is there a excuse for what those 2 did with regards to Iraq? I
think not.

[David Hartung]

You refute my statement about our major universities with a cite about
education in grades 1-12?

[David Hartung]

On 05/20/2012 08:55 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>
> "wy" <w...@myself.com> wrote in message
> news:aacc5fc5-6408-49a4...@i19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 19, 3:09 pm, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
>>> On 05/19/2012 01:42 PM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Sat, 19 May 2012 11:19:58 -0500, David Hartung wrote:
>>>
>>> >> On 05/19/2012 09:06 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>>> >>>http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/quebec-passes-law-to-restrict-
>>> >>> protests-ban-wearing-masks/
>>>
>>> >>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>>> >>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>>

>>> >>> MONTREAL � Authorities in Canada�s Quebec province passed emergency

>>> >>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
>>> >>> after
>>> >>> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition
>>> >>> hikes.
>>>
>>> >> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
>>> >> Perhaps these students should grow up.
>>>
>>> > And maybe watch Quebec turn into another Mississippi.
>>>
>>> Mississippi's commitment to quality affordable post secondary education
>>> is longstanding. IN addition we are home to at least three world class
>>> universities.
>>
>> I don't know what world you're talking about, except Third World,
>> because you'd have to go far down the list to see any of them here (I
>> gave up after 200):
>>
>> http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011
>>
>
> Hartung needs to get his head out of his ass:

None of what you cited has anything to do with the quality of our
universities.

[Sid9]

"MattB." <trdel...@gmail.com.......> wrote in message
news:f6bjr7h95mkl43v9m...@4ax.com...

Cheney/bush,jr harmed American interests in the region.
They destroyed Iran's most serious enemy.
It was unforgiveable.

[Sid9]

"David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
news:CcadneK6xuN7MCTS...@giganews.com...

> On 05/20/2012 08:46 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>>
>> "wy" <w...@myself.com> wrote in message
>> news:aacc5fc5-6408-49a4...@i19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>> On May 19, 3:09 pm, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
>>>> On 05/19/2012 01:42 PM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > On Sat, 19 May 2012 11:19:58 -0500, David Hartung wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> On 05/19/2012 09:06 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>>>> >>>http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/quebec-passes-law-to-restrict-
>>>> >>> protests-ban-wearing-masks/
>>>>
>>>> >>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>>>> >>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>>>

>>>> >>> MONTREAL � Authorities in Canada�s Quebec province passed emergency

>>>> >>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
>>>> >>> after
>>>> >>> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition
>>>> >>> hikes.
>>>>
>>>> >> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in
>>>> >> Canada?
>>>> >> Perhaps these students should grow up.
>>>>
>>>> > And maybe watch Quebec turn into another Mississippi.
>>>>
>>>> Mississippi's commitment to quality affordable post secondary education
>>>> is longstanding. IN addition we are home to at least three world class
>>>> universities.
>>>
>>> I don't know what world you're talking about, except Third World,
>>> because you'd have to go far down the list to see any of them here (I
>>> gave up after 200):
>>>
>>> http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hartung is in an alternate universe!
>>
>> http://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/stories/mississippi-ranks-last-in-science-education
>>
>>
>> Mississippi ranks last in science education
>> "A new ranking system shows that most schools are doing a poor job of
>> preparing students for science and engineering careers, with Mississippi
>> ranking the worst in the United States."
>
> You refute my statement about our major universities with a cite about
> education in grades 1-12?

The state of Mississippi should be abolished.
It's fragments should annexed to LA, AK, and AL.
======================
"Mississippi: First in number of Conservatives, Last in Education.

March 1, 2011
Coincidence? Mississippi was just named in a Gallup poll as having more
self-identified conservatives than any other state. If it�s such a
conservative Mecca, could we maybe look at it as a microcosm of what America
would look like if it were as conservative as Mississippi? I think so. It
could also become reality as Mississippi governor Haley Barbour is actually
considering a run for the White House.

I did a little digging about the great state of Mississippi and was
frightened by what I found. Here are some fun facts about how Mississippi
ranks among all 50 states (source: statemaster.com):
50th (dead last) in percentage of the population with a high-school diploma
or equivalent
50th (dead last) in median family income
49th in Health Index
49th in Personal Income per capita
1st in Obesity
2nd highest unemployment rate
1st in percentage of population below the poverty line
1st in child death rate"

from:

http://www.venturamojo.com/2011/03/01/mississippi-first-in-number-of-conservatives-last-in-education/
================


Instead of defending Mississippi go and do something about it.

[David Hartung]

On 05/20/2012 10:19 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>
> "David Hartung" <yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
> news:CcadneK6xuN7MCTS...@giganews.com...
>> On 05/20/2012 08:46 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>>>
>>> "wy" <w...@myself.com> wrote in message
>>> news:aacc5fc5-6408-49a4...@i19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> On May 19, 3:09 pm, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 05/19/2012 01:42 PM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Sat, 19 May 2012 11:19:58 -0500, David Hartung wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >> On 05/19/2012 09:06 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>>>>> >>>http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/quebec-passes-law-to-restrict-
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> protests-ban-wearing-masks/
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By
>>>>> Agence
>>>>> >>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>>>>

>>>>> >>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed

You are a sad, bitter old man.

By the way, as a matter of trivia, where was the world's first heart
transplant done?

As I observed in another post in this thread, our primary and secondary
education leaves much to be desired. Our post secondary education system
is a different matter. Our Schools may not be at the very top, but they
do offer quality educations at a reasonable price. Our community college
programs have made it possible for young people who otherwise could not
afford college to get at least an associates degree, or to reduce the
cost of their degree by getting their lower division courses at a lower
cost.

Say what you wish, but an objective look at Mississippi's colleges and
universities shows that in that area, we have nothing for which we
should be ashamed.

[wy]

> >>>>http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-r...

>
> >>> Hartung is in an alternate universe!
>

> >>>http://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/stories/mississippi-ranks-l...

>
> >>> Mississippi ranks last in science education
> >>> "A new ranking system shows that most schools are doing a poor job of
> >>> preparing students for science and engineering careers, with Mississippi
> >>> ranking the worst in the United States."
>
> >> You refute my statement about our major universities with a cite about
> >> education in grades 1-12?
>
> > The state of Mississippi should be abolished.
> > It's fragments should annexed to LA, AK, and AL.
>
> You are a sad, bitter old man.
>
> By the way, as a matter of trivia, where was the world's first heart
> transplant done?

'Tweren't in Mississippi, boy. 'Twas in South Africa, though, back in
'67.

[David Hartung]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,897112,00.html

[2966 Dead]

On Mon, 21 May 2012 05:44:26 -0500, David Hartung wrote:

> On 05/20/2012 11:15 PM, wy wrote:
>> On May 21, 12:05 am, David Hartung<yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote:
>>> On 05/20/2012 10:19 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "David Hartung"<yankeefarmboy@liv*e.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:CcadneK6xuN7MCTS...@giganews.com...
>>>>> On 05/20/2012 08:46 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> "wy"<w...@myself.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:aacc5fc5-6408-49a4-
bdc9-2a3...@i19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

This is David's notion of a huge scientific and medical advance:

Print
Email
Reprints

share
inShare

Surgeons at the University of Mississippi Medical Center in Jackson last
week performed history's first recorded transplant of a heart into a
human being. At first they refused to identify either donor or recipient,
but later announced that the heart had come from a chimpanzee. In a three-
hour operation, it had been transplanted into a man dying of irreversible
heart disease. It beat for an hour, but proved too small, and the
recipient died. In the fast-growing record of transplants, the initial
failure was not nearly so significant as the fact that the surgeons'
skills were equal to the bold...

[David Hartung]

That procedure was one of the steps which led to the South Africa
transplant, and to heart transplants being pretty routine today. As
smart as you present yourself to be, you should recognize this.

[2966 Dead]

...Much the way 'bleeding the patient' led to blood transfusions. They
learned the difference between arteries and veins whilst performing witch-
doctor surgery.

[David Hartung]

I see.

[wy]

Oh, foolish me, thinking you were referring to an actual human-to-
human heart transplant. Instead, you're talking about a chimpanzee-to-
human which, of course, didn't work since the patient only lived 90
minutes. But yeah, I guess somebody had to be a guinea pig. Still,
the doctor who performed that transplant, Dr. James Hardy, wasn't even
a graduate of any Mississippi university but from a Pennsylvania one.
So just because the surgery took place in Mississippi means nothing,
since all sorts of experimental surgeries take place in a lot of
different hospitals, like the first human-to-human heart transplant in
South Africa, of all places, and the first such transplant in Canada,
in Montreal, only 6 months later, not to mention that the actual first
heart transplant, being animal to animal, took place in California in
1958 by Dr. Norman Shumway. That's if you want to get specific about
it.

[Sid9]

"wy" <w...@myself.com> wrote in message

news:2c38659b-a06c-4f5f...@em1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

.
.
For Hartung, was his post deception or ignorance???....or both?

[David Hartung]

On 05/21/2012 10:29 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:

As I have freely admitted, Mississippi has its faults, but here are some
Mississippi accomplishments, scientific and otherwise. They are from
here: http://www.50states.com/facts/miss.htm

In 1963 the University of Mississippi Medical Center accomplished the
world's first human lung transplant and, on January 23, 1964, Dr. James
D. Hardy performed the world's first heart transplant surgery.

Burnita Shelton Mathews of Hazelhurst was the first woman federal judge
in the United States and served in Washington, the District of Columbia.

Dr. Emmette F. Izard of Hazelhurst developed the first fibers of rayon.
They became known as the first real synthetics.

Mississippi was the first state in the nation to have a planned system
of junior colleges.

D'Lo was featured in "Life Magazine" for sending proportionally more men
to serve in World War II than any other town of its size. 38 percent of
the men who lived in D'Lo served.

Pine Sol was invented in 1929 by Jackson native Harry A. Cole, Sr.

Root beer was invented in Biloxi in 1898 by Edward Adolf Barq, Sr.

At Vicksburg, the United States Army Corps of Engineers Waterways
Experiment Station is the world's largest hydraulic research laboratory.

[wy]

On May 21, 11:48 am, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
> On 05/21/2012 10:29 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>
> As I have freely admitted, Mississippi has its faults, but here are some
> Mississippi accomplishments, scientific and otherwise. They are from
> here:http://www.50states.com/facts/miss.htm
>
> In 1963 the University of Mississippi Medical Center accomplished the
> world's first human lung transplant and, on January 23, 1964, Dr. James
> D. Hardy performed the world's first heart transplant surgery.

The first heart transplant was in the late 50s:

http://med.stanford.edu/featured_topics/obituary/shumway/

>
> Burnita Shelton Mathews of Hazelhurst was the first woman federal judge
> in the United States and served in Washington, the District of Columbia.
>
> Dr. Emmette F. Izard of Hazelhurst developed the first fibers of rayon.
> They became known as the first real synthetics.
>
> Mississippi was the first state in the nation to have a planned system
> of junior colleges.
>
> D'Lo was featured in "Life Magazine" for sending proportionally more men
> to serve in World War II than any other town of its size. 38 percent of
> the men who lived in D'Lo served.
>
> Pine Sol was invented in 1929 by Jackson native Harry A. Cole, Sr.
>
> Root beer was invented in Biloxi in 1898 by Edward Adolf Barq, Sr.
>
> At Vicksburg, the United States Army Corps of Engineers Waterways
> Experiment Station is the world's largest hydraulic research laboratory.

What's your point. Hartung? Every state and every country will have
its achievements and successes, some more so than others. It's as if
you've got some sort of persecution complex over your state always
being maligned that you have to come to its defense with whatever slim
list of accomplishments to prove that Mississippi should be worthy of
being recognized alongside the big boy states like New York or
California and a dozen or more others who've been the point of origin
of thousands of their own educational and medical accomplishments, not
just a dozen or two that you can come up with. Your state is a small
state, it'll never catch up with the big boys, so relax already.

[2966 Dead]

On Mon, 21 May 2012 10:48:45 -0500, David Hartung wrote:

> On 05/21/2012 10:29 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>
> As I have freely admitted, Mississippi has its faults, but here are some
> Mississippi accomplishments, scientific and otherwise. They are from
> here: http://www.50states.com/facts/miss.htm
>
> In 1963 the University of Mississippi Medical Center accomplished the
> world's first human lung transplant and, on January 23, 1964, Dr. James
> D. Hardy performed the world's first heart transplant surgery.

You -do- understand that was nearly 50 years ago, right? And that both
amounted to little more than human experimentation?

>
> Burnita Shelton Mathews of Hazelhurst was the first woman federal judge
> in the United States and served in Washington, the District of Columbia.

In 1949, and probably managed it despite being from Mississippi.

>
> Dr. Emmette F. Izard of Hazelhurst developed the first fibers of rayon.
> They became known as the first real synthetics.

When was that, 1920? And did she do it in a facility in MS, or did she
have to go somewhere else?

>
> Mississippi was the first state in the nation to have a planned system
> of junior colleges.
>

1820, perhaps?

> D'Lo was featured in "Life Magazine" for sending proportionally more men
> to serve in World War II than any other town of its size. 38 percent of
> the men who lived in D'Lo served.
>

It was that or live in D'Lo, I guess...

> Pine Sol was invented in 1929 by Jackson native Harry A. Cole, Sr.
>
> Root beer was invented in Biloxi in 1898 by Edward Adolf Barq, Sr.
>
> At Vicksburg, the United States Army Corps of Engineers Waterways
> Experiment Station is the world's largest hydraulic research laboratory.

A federal project, of course.

Got anything from a) within our lifetimes that b) suggests that MS has
anything at all in the way of intellectual or cultural heft?

[David Hartung]

Nice of you to finally admit it.

[David Hartung]

Why is it so important to you to belittle my home? Why is it so very
imprtant that you show your pettiness by belittling other and their homes.

I may be too quick to jump to the defense of my state, but in these
exchanges, it is you, Wy, Sid and the like who come of as petty childish
clowns. Think about it.

[David Hartung]

On 05/21/2012 11:03 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:

> On Mon, 21 May 2012 10:48:45 -0500, David Hartung wrote:
>
>> On 05/21/2012 10:29 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>>
>> As I have freely admitted, Mississippi has its faults, but here are some
>> Mississippi accomplishments, scientific and otherwise. They are from
>> here: http://www.50states.com/facts/miss.htm

>> Mississippi was the first state in the nation to have a planned system
>> of junior colleges.
>>
> 1820, perhaps?

1920s, actually.

[wy]

Try defending all the historical negatives of your state, not just
promoting its historical positives, and then see if it's one worth
being proud of. Even in the present sense, it ranks at or near the
bottom on a whole slew of things. You may not be the worst state
overall in the union, but it seems you're the 5th worst:

"The Bad: Good grief. Well, uh, they don't much care for blacks, or
gays, or book-learnin'. Everyone there is fat. And did we mention
racist? They're pretty racist. It's actually become part of their
economy (says a commenter). Sorry, Mississippi."

http://gawker.com/50states

[wy]

Mississippi isn't one of those states that has more so than others.

[First.Post]

David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote in
news:GYidnZF9h51u9SfS...@giganews.com:

It is because they lack the intellectual competence to respond with
anything other than childish immature insults.
It also shows a very simple minded mentality since they all appear to
believe that a persons' character comes from where they physically live
as opposed to who they really are.
Guess they're psychologically still stuck in high school.

[2966 Dead]

The first community college was established in Fullerton, CA in 1913.

[wy]

On May 21, 12:35 pm, "First.Post" <OccupierDumberThanD...@invalid.org>
wrote:
> David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote innews:GYidnZF9h51u9SfS...@giganews.com:

Well, at least that's much further ahead than you got through in
school.

[First.Post]

wy <w...@myself.com> wrote in
news:c5cb032a-8dd4-4086...@em1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

Yeah right, a state that has 100 times more black citizens, black
comgreemen and black mayors than pearly white Canada does in the entire
nation doesn't care for blacks. And youm know jack shit about how racist
any state of the union is. Especially since Canada has fewer minorities in
number than the single whitest state in the US.

Care to explain how all those so called blackj hating racists chose to
elect a black mayor in the largest city and capitol of the state?
Funny that all the folks that you claim to be Republican white racists are
fine with a black democrat, Harvey Johnson, as mayor of their capitol city.
And that is only one of dozens of cities in the state with black
leadership.

You seem to have quite the obsession for claiming to know about that which
you know little or nothing at all.
You hate America and all Americans except for those that also hate their
country and want to see it crash and burn.
We get that, and we also don't give two shits for you uniformed uneducated
ignorant opinion.
So feel free to sit up there on your non working government entitlement
drawing ass and be miserable all you want trying to make yourself feel
superior by throwing around you dumbassed Canuck opinions that mean
nothing.

[2966 Dead]

But overall, your state is near the bottom.

Now Quebec has a long history of being treated as a minority in its own
country, with resultant poverty. Despite this, they have managed far
better than Mississippi has.

[David Hartung]

Once again, I have freely admitted that we have issues. I can tell you
from personal experience that Mississippi has come a very long way on
the matter of race. I moved to Mississippi the year after the local
school district fully integrated(1972). Interestingly there was a
determination from all parts of the community, black, white, young, old,
etc, to make integration work.

Yes, there was, and is racism on the part of some of the more foolish
white folks, but the progress over the past 40 years is amazing.

To be honest, I don't expect this to make any difference to you. You
have made up your mind, and you will not let something as mundane as
fact change it.

[2966 Dead]

Um, bubbles? What language do they speak in Quebec?

>
> Care to explain how all those so called blackj hating racists chose to
> elect a black mayor in the largest city and capitol of the state?
> Funny that all the folks that you claim to be Republican white racists
> are fine with a black democrat, Harvey Johnson, as mayor of their
> capitol city.
> And that is only one of dozens of cities in the state with black
> leadership.

And you're still trying to strip voting rights away from the people who
mostly elected them.

[David Hartung]

You may have a point.

[David Hartung]

You just don't learn, do you?

[David Hartung]

I didn't say that Mississippi established the nation's first junior
college. What I said is that Mississippi established the nation's first
statewide *system* of junior colleges.

[Dänk 42Ø]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 21:02:29 +0000, 2966 Dead quacked:

>> On Sun, 20 May 2012 13:54:10 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/21/nyregion/appeals-court-backs-ban-on-
>> masks-at-public-rallies.ht
>> ...
>> The lower court's ruling, by Judge Harold Baer Jr. of Federal District
>> Court in Manhattan, had found that the city enforced the mask law
>> selectively against the Church of the American Knights of the Ku Klux
>> Klan. The American Knights had argued that anonymous expression was a
>> protected right, and that the hooded masks linked members to Klan
>> history and were expressive of certain beliefs.
>
> And Baer was wrong.

Hmm? Are you supporting the right of protesters to wear masks or not?
If so, why is Judge Baer "wrong" for ruling that KKK members should be
allowed to wear hoods? If not, why do you defend the right of Muslims to
cover their faces in public while prohibiting non-Muslims from covering
theirs?


> But then, he's not a liberal, is he?

I really don't know what Judge Baer's political views are nor do I care.
He ruled that KKK members have a constitutional right to cover their
faces in public, so your question implies that liberals oppose this
right. But you demand this same right for leftist protesters and
Muslims, which makes you a hypocrite.

[David Hartung]

If not at the bottom.

[wy]

What's to learn from First Post, that he's even dysfunctional at being
an idiot?

[wy]

On May 21, 12:46 pm, "First.Post" <OccupierDumberThanD...@invalid.org>
wrote:

What's the matter, you jealous of our whiteness?

> And youm know jack shit about how racist
> any state of the union is. Especially since Canada has fewer minorities in
> number than the single whitest state in the US.

Canada is too peaceful a country for most Americans, including blacks,
to want to be able to relax in. You guys need the fear factor and
daily tension to make you feel alive, while having one foot at death's
door because you never know who'll end up blowing your brains out,
thanks to your gun-nutness.

>
> Care to explain how all those so called blackj hating racists chose to
> elect a black mayor in the largest city and capitol of the state?

Give me the election results and demographic breakdown and maybe I'll
tell you.

> Funny that all the folks that you claim to be Republican white racists are
> fine with a black democrat, Harvey Johnson, as mayor of their capitol city.

How do you know it's all of them? Did you personally count them all
and speak with each one of them yourself? No, of course not. Boy,
you're stupid.

> And that is only one of dozens of cities in the state with black
> leadership.

Ever think that turnout is a factor? White people don't even have to
come out and vote to get a black man elected in some local election.
It all boils down to who shows up. So if a town has 100,000 people in
it with 50,000 of voting age and only 5,000 whites show up but 10,000
blacks show up, well, just do the math as to how a black man can get
easily elected. Doesn't say much for the whole group of white racist
Repugnants who stayed home and sat out the election. Of course, the
irony is that their boycott only resulted in their town being taken
over by a black mayor. Boy, white racist Repugnants are stupid.

>
> You seem to have quite the obsession for claiming to know about that which
> you know little or nothing at all.

Typically, you have it backwards like a good, white, racist Repugnant
always gets it. I know about that which I know some or a lot about.

> You hate America and all Americans except for those that also hate their
> country and want to see it crash and burn.

I just hate stupid Americans, of which there are increasing number of
them with each passing year, and especially white, racist Repugnant
Americans who insist on making America stupider than it's ever been in
history.

> We get that, and we also don't give two shits for you uniformed uneducated
> ignorant opinion.

You can keep your two shits.

> So feel free to sit up there on your non working government entitlement
> drawing ass and be miserable all you want trying to make yourself feel
> superior by throwing around you dumbassed Canuck opinions that mean
> nothing.

It's a holiday up here today. So there.

[wy]

So how is that "progress" if you're still at the bottom? As you put
it elsewhere about the state, "...but the progress over the past 40
years is amazing." It could only be "amazing" if the state was 60th
on a list of 50 states and managed to work its way up to 50 over the
last 40 years. Shouldn't that tell you how poorly off Mississippi has
been and still is, almost in Third World terms, despite what minimal
achievements it has had, which themselves haven't really helped
elevate the state's profile in any substantial positive way? And
while the state may pride itself in paying the least in taxes to the
feds per capita, it can't survive without receiving twice as much in
return, $2.02 per tax dollar paid, in fed help. That means if it
wasn't going to be a perpetual welfare state, people there should be
paying twice as much in taxes to the feds so that they can rightly
claim their independence from them as a state that can take care of
itself, which is that right wingnut mantra that's always being thrown
around but one that right wingnuts never seem to be able to really
live by themselves. But I guess socialism only works for right
wingnuts when they demand it work for them because they refuse to do
otherwise, like pay higher taxes. In other words, Mississippi has
sucked off the fed's tits for too long, so what "progress" you imagine
is one that really doesn't account for anything that really matters in
the big picture of things.

[MattB]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 23:04:57 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>
>"MattB." <trdel...@gmail.com.......> wrote in message
>news:f6bjr7h95mkl43v9m...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 20 May 2012 22:05:11 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"MattB" <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:t2ngr7thiubi7kb9u...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 20 May 2012 02:29:19 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 19 May 2012 16:48:09 -0700, MattB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 19 May 2012 22:18:53 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sat, 19 May 2012 14:07:29 -0700, MattB wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 May 2012 16:10:57 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Sat, 19 May 2012 08:34:08 -0700, wy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 19, 10:06 am, 2966 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/quebec-passes-law-to-

>>>>>restrict-
>>>>>>>>>>> protests-ban-wearing-masks/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By
>>>>>>>>>>> Agence
>>>>>>>>>>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> MONTREAL ? Authorities in Canada?s Quebec province passed

>>>>>>>>>>> emergency
>>>>>>>>>>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
>>>>>>>>>>> after months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over
>>>>>>>>>>> tuition hikes.
>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> The francophone province?s assembly passed a law after a marathon
>>>>>>>>>>> two-day session requiring groups of more than 10 people to inform
>>>>>>>>>>> police in advance when they plan to hold a demonstration, and
>>>>>>>>>>> provide the location, time and duration of the event.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On its heels, the city of Montreal also passed a bylaw
>>>>>>>>>>> prohibiting
>>>>>>>>>>> wearing masks after several cloaked protesters smashed
>>>>>>>>>>> storefronts
>>>>>>>>>>> and clashed with police during demonstrations continuing into a
>>>>>>>>>>> 14th week amid a deadlock in negotiations.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fines for breaches of the two laws range from $500 to $250,000.
>>>>>>>>>>> An
>>>>>>>>>>> exception to the no-mask rule, however, is allowed for the
>>>>>>>>>>> Halloween holiday.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Students, unions and the opposition party criticized the
>>>>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>>>> over the emergency law, with one former premier calling it
>>>>>>>>>>> ?barbaric.?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Louis Masson, president of the Quebec Bar Association
>>>>>>>>>>> representing
>>>>>>>>>>> 24,000 lawyers, said it goes too far by restricting fundamental
>>>>>>>>>>> ?freedoms of expression? to a point that begs the question, who
>>>>>>>would
>>>>>>>>>>> now dare protest.?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Before the emergency law was unveiled, a majority of Quebecers
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> backed the government on the need for a hike in school fees of
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> than $1,700 to help reduce a budget deficit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But many also said Quebec Premier Jean Charest had mismanaged the
>>>>>>>>>>> crisis, according to polls.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The student demonstrations culminated Monday with the resignation
>>>>>>>>>>> of Quebec?s education minister and rising political star, Line
>>>>>>>>>>> Beauchamp, following a standoff when 165,000 students rejected a
>>>>>>>>>>> tentative deal last week to stretch tuition hike over seven years
>>>>>>>>>>> instead of five.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ?When laws are unjust, sometimes you have to disregard them, and
>>>>>>>>>>> we?re seriously thinking about this now,? student leader Gabriel
>>>>>>>>>>> Nadeau-Dubois said about the emergency measure.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The students only brought this upon themselves. They had a simple
>>>>>>>>>> grievance that could've easily been solved, which the government
>>>>>>>>>> managed to find a way to deal with when they originally arrived at
>>>>>>>>>> half-a-dozen very sensible proposals, but then students wanted
>>>>>>>>>> none
>>>>>>>>>> of the reasonable offerings, they simply demanded more, and kept
>>>>>>>>>> demanding more, going beyond their original grievance. It's like
>>>>>>>>>> they became drunk by their own protesting ability and lost sight
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> what they were complaining about in the first place. I sided with
>>>>>>>>>> them at the beginning with some of their issues but thought their
>>>>>>>>>> griping over tuition fees was idiotic - Quebec's fees are the
>>>>>>>>>> lowest
>>>>>>>>>> in North America, almost insanely so. But the government agreed to
>>>>>>>>>> spread out the increases to seven years instead of five, to
>>>>>>>>>> minimize
>>>>>>>>>> the annual increases, which would've been only a few hundred bucks
>>>>>>>>>> extra per year and all the students had to do was save an extra
>>>>>>>>>> buck
>>>>>>>>>> a day to afford that increase. But noooooo, that would be toooo
>>>>>>>>>> haaaarrrrddd for them to do. Anyway, the government then came up
>>>>>>>>>> with another set of proposals that went beyond their original set
>>>>>>>>>> and again they were all very reasonable sounding. This time the
>>>>>>>>>> student leadership accepted, but the rank and file outrightly
>>>>>>>>>> rejected it, with no explanation as to why. So clearly, the
>>>>>>>>>> students have gotten out of hand, verging on anarchy, and the
>>>>>>>>>> government had little choice but to try to control the situation
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> passing the law, which most people favor since they're already fed
>>>>>>>>>> up with these rebels without a cause. This is a clear-cut example
>>>>>>>>>> of the difference between constructive protest and destructive
>>>>>>>>>> protest, with the former yielding results and solutions and the
>>>>>>>>>> latter resorting to restrictive laws. At this point, it's not at
>>>>>>>>>> all certain as to how this'll all be resolved, but one can only
>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>> the students end up at their parents' cottages for the summer or,
>>>>>>>>>> better yet, get a job in the real world so they could afford their
>>>>>>>>>> tiny tuition hikes and get off the streets already.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Right or wrong, I think the government response is a serious mistake
>>>>>>>>>and reflects poorly on Quebec. How would you feel if the folks in
>>>>>>>>>Toronto --
>>>>>>>>>or Ottawa -- passed similar measures?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After the last OWS riot in Seattle they need a similar law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If any OWS were involved. It's pretty stupid to stage a stunt like
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>the day before a major demonstration is planned, and I strongly doubt
>>>>>>>anyone in OWS was involved with it. But it plays SO WELL into the
>>>>>>>hands
>>>>>>>of corporate interests, don't you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who knows the owe me crowd aren't to logical.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know about that. They aren't the ones whining that if we give
>>>>>all our money to the superrich, the rich will be nice to us.
>>>>
>>>> Well strange both the extreme right and the extreme left want to
>>>> take from the middle class. They just differ on who to give it to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Let's see how many demonstrators get beaten to a pulp and slammed into
>>>>>>>prison over the weekend in Chicago. I wonder if they'll shut down the
>>>>>>>social media like they tried to do in Cairo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hopefully both sides will obey the law. Well Who know Obama just
>>>>>> might shut down the web. That is part of a police State. Democrats
>>>>>> love police States.
>>>>>
>>>>>Dick Cheney is a Democrat? I had no idea!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> He and Obama are much alike. Both are liars.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>More phony equivalence to excuse what Cheney/ bush,jr died to our country
>>
>> Is there a excuse for what those 2 did with regards to Iraq? I
>> think not.
>
>Cheney/bush,jr harmed American interests in the region.
>They destroyed Iran's most serious enemy.
>It was unforgiveable.

No I would say the most serious crime is the dead, all for a lie on
WMD and for profits for the defense industries.

If we had kept all our forces in Afghanistan who knows that war could
be over by now.

Never elect a President with Daddy issues. Obama has Daddy issues.

[2966 Dead]

You're the one who made the silly claim of "three world-class
universities" to begin with. That was a lie and I showed it was a lie.
I noted that Quebec students didn't want to end up like Mississippi, and
like it or not, your state is a good example of "don't be that guy".

>
> I may be too quick to jump to the defense of my state, but in these
> exchanges, it is you, Wy, Sid and the like who come of as petty childish
> clowns. Think about it.

Stop lying to us, and we'll leave you alone.

[Sid9]

"MattB" <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote in message

news:g52lr7lr78ovtipe9...@4ax.com...

For Cheney /bush,jr the dead and disabled are measurable, however, we cannot
measure the dead and disabled that result from the consequences of
eliminating Iran's most fearsome enemy

Obama has no Daddy complex.
Romney is out to outdo his daddy by becoming president.
Bedsides that, he seems to lack the fire in his belly to be president and
will either need the newly rebuilt Cheney or a Cheney like person in the VP
spot to run the presidency for him.
After all, that's how businessmen work....they delegate and go on vacation.
(see: History of the bush,jr presidency)

[Sid9]

"2966 Dead" <de...@gone.com> wrote in message
news:jpe2f2$9su$1...@dont-email.me...

It's impossible to belittle Mississippi.
Cancel MS statehood and split it up between its neighbors!

[MattB]

On Mon, 21 May 2012 16:38:51 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net>

LOL

>Romney is out to outdo his daddy by becoming president.
>Bedsides that, he seems to lack the fire in his belly to be president and
>will either need the newly rebuilt Cheney or a Cheney like person in the VP
>spot to run the presidency for him.
>After all, that's how businessmen work....they delegate and go on vacation.
>(see: History of the bush,jr presidency)

LOL Defensive much. Admit it Obama is as bad as Bush. Then
again I am still wondering what his plan is he has to keep hidden
until after the election. The one Putin would agree with. Now that
is scary for 2 reason Putin would approve and his base would not.

Can we afford to re-elect him?

[Steve]

On Mon, 21 May 2012 11:10:27 -0500, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com>
wrote:

Say, isn't this "my state is better than your state" a lot like "my
dad can whip your dad?"

[Steve]

On Mon, 21 May 2012 18:44:50 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <de...@gone.com>

"I have the right to vote against him in the next
election."
--David B.(Zepp) Jamieson, 1996
http://www.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=4l6trj%24iq4%40news.snowcrest.net


"I will throw my vote away on a 3rd party candidate."
--Zepp Jamieson,2000/02/15
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=38a8c8d3.16637502%40news.snowcrest.net


"I can just as easily vote once now--in my local Congressional race"
--David B.(Zepp) Jamieson, 1996
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.misc/msg/a6fa6287419ce925?hl=en&


"You just doubled the value of my vote."
--David B.(Zepp) Jamieson, 2000/04/25
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3905050c.66719349%40news.snowcrest.net


"I -can- vote"
--David B.(Zepp) Jamieson, 2000/04/25
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=4lmnit%24eiv%40news.snowcrest.net


[...] if we decide elections by square miles, my vote is worth
200 Los Angeles votes.
--David B.(Zepp) Jamieson, 2000-12-18
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=tbit3tc60l1a6c1mj89b4o285anpe11kqa%404ax.com&oe=UTF-8



"Legal resident alien [David B.(Zepp) Jamieson,] a Canadian who has lived
in the United States for more than 30 years, said his status
changed dramatically with the Patriot Act."
http://www.mtshastanews.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2003/June/04-1695-news11.txt



Legal resident aliens aren't allowed to vote, Jamieson.
Why were you lying and pretending to be a citizen?

[David Hartung]

Yes I made the claim, and it may have been an overstatement, but given
the number of international students and faculty we have here at
Mississippi State, I am not at all certain. There are around 7500

>> I may be too quick to jump to the defense of my state, but in these
>> exchanges, it is you, Wy, Sid and the like who come of as petty childish
>> clowns. Think about it.
>
> Stop lying to us, and we'll leave you alone.

Lying?

To be honest, the definition of world class is subjective. What you call
a lie may be nothing other than a difference of opinion.

Something for you to consider:
http://www.tc.columbia.edu/centers/coce/pdf_files/c12.pdf

[Sid9]

"MattB" <trdel...@Nomorespamgmail.com> wrote in message

news:80blr7tpkb8n0mb8a...@4ax.com...

You need serious medical attention.

[MattB]

On Mon, 21 May 2012 18:11:01 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net>

Yes the Tea Party members here agree with you.

Have a nice day.

[David Hartung]

Perhaps, but one gets tired of clowns such as Zepp, Wy Sid and such
trashing a bunch of good people.

[Steve]

On Mon, 21 May 2012 18:57:53 -0500, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com>

David, you're arguing with people who are intent upon speaking
propaganda. They NEED to have an audience and you are it.

[3006 Dead]

It's always a sure sign that you've been defeated when you start
whimpering and humping Steve's leg.