Your post is quite inaccurate. Where did you come up with the $100 million
or so figure in donations to the GOP? I guarantee you that the
organizations you refer to gave NO money to the RNC or various other GOP
organizations. The fact of the matter is that most large conservative
organizations have been audited in the past 7 years. And those that haven't
yet been audited are afraid that they will be any day so they follow the law
very carefully. None of the audits have resulted in any major violations.
So in fact there is no question that they are NOT violating the law.
Unlilke Gore's fundraiser who was CONVICTED of violating campaign finance
laws (by the was she was prosecuted by the Clinton Justice Department,
hardly a hotbed of right-wing activity).
Altho no friend of the religious right (they say I'm a liberal "mole")
they are too smart to make illegal contributions, especially when they
can achieve the same result by running their own legal ad's. Moreover,
the RR represents Americans who have a right to make their opinions
public no matter how odd or obnoxious they may be to others, not a
hostile foreign government. If somehow swept into power, the worst
they'd do is outlaw abortion and require school prayer.
OTOH, we know Gore was involved in getting contributions that ultimately
came from Red China and we know that the Clinton/Gore admin authorized
the xfer of ICBM technology to the same Red Chinese - the same Red
Chinese who are now threatening to use that knowledge to nuke us if we
dare to defend Tiawan.
We're not talking about Roe vs Wade or school prayer, we are talking
survival. If Tiawan falls because we dare not defend it then all of the
technology we have given them - all the computer/chip factories, steel
mills, et al - will acrue to communist China and if that happens, yawl
young Democrats best start learning chinese.
In regard to the fundraiser, Why instead of attacking someone else don't you
say..."hell if laws where broken people should be punished". It is corruption
like this that must be stopped, and I think you agree (or you should). It
doesn't matter which side broke the law, the fact is it has been broken, don't
you agree? This Hsia lady is looking at 25 years. Does that not raise your
suspicions that others are involved in subverting the political process? Do
you not care about it unless it gives you fodder for the other side...surely
Gary Lantz wrote:
> The Buddhist Temple is about the dumbest non-event in this country. The
> right wingnuts Press blows this one out their....and forgets that it pales
> in the light of $100 million or the Religious Right that received TAX
> EXEMPTIONS so they could give to the Republican party, and that is no
> question illegal. "Empower America was changed for that same illegal
> Gary Lantz
They did not have their tax-exempt status revoked. They had a technical
violation for which they had to pay a small fine. They voluntarily decided
to re-organize in order to become more involved in the political process by
forming a PAC.
I'll not defend the CC; others provided answers.
> Secondly, the Clinton administration did NOT authorize the
> transfer of ICBM technology to the Chinese, but rather allowed Loral to work with the
> Chinese in improving the efficiency of their rockets.
That's double-talk. Allowing LORAL to help the Chicoms "improve" their
"rockets" amounts to the same thing. Chicom "rockets" (read ICBMs)
couldn't hit us before they got that "help" - now they can. "Allow" and
"authorize" have the same meaning in this context. Doesn't "improving
the efficiency" of "rockets" so that they can now carry nukes to the US
add up to a "transfer of ICBM technology"? Give us break!
> Keep in mind that Loral has also woprked closely with GOP administrations...
Working with GOP (or Democrat) *administerations* isn't pertainent -
we're talking about helping a hostile foreign government to develop the
capability to nuke us.
> Moreover, keep in mind, too, that it was Christopher Cox who worked assiduously
> behind the scenes to allow the transfer of supercomputers to the Chinese.
Then Mr Cox should be in prison with Clinton and Gore.
> And let's not forget that Bob Dole's national campaign mamager actually went to
> PRISON for that campaigns financing violations. And Jim Nicholson admitted on CNN
> that the GOP took Chinese money and WON'T GIVE IT BACK! ......
Thank you for reminding us. If you are saying that there is plenty of
blame to go round you'll get no arguement from me. All I say is that if
a link between anyone accepting Chicom $$$ and China's newfound ability
to nuke us can be established to the satisfaction of a Grand Jury then
those persons should be tried for treason and, if convicted, executed
like the Rosenbergs.
How did you type that with a straight face? Care to explain how that
sentence is anything other than Orwellian?
I think what he meant was the Loral took it upon themselves to share the
details of that technology more or less in defiance of security concerns.
There isn't much doubt that this sort of thing has been going on for some
time, under a variety of administrations. During the Roosevelt
administration US scrap dealers sold much of our scrap metal to Japanese
buyers. We eventually got it back, of course, in the form of spent
Cut the "tail" to respond by email.
Fletch F. Fletch <fletch_f_fletch[NOSPAM]@mindspring.com> wrote in message
1993 MMT was one of 18 firms to obtain research grants to find ways to rid
the nation of nuclear waste. The grant was $1.2 million. "Department of
Energy (DOE) consultants warned that Haney's process offered 'no significant
advantage' to 'justify its preferred development' over rivals'." (Time,
February 1993 Molten becomes a publicly-traded company. (Forbes, 1/22/96)
September 1993 MMT opens its Fall River, Mass. plant. Peter Knight arranged
for Assistant Energy Secretary Thomas Grumbly to be a guest speaker at the
plant's opening. "Grumbly suggested that the firm could receive as much as
$200 million in federal work, which sent the stock soaring." (Time, 6/9/97)
January 1994 The Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory reports that
Molten's new process was probably inappropriate for the kind of waste at
most nuclear weapons sites. (Time, 6/9/97)
March 1994 The General Accounting Office states that Molten's technology was
at least 13 years from full development. (Forbes, 1/22/96)
March 24, 1994 Molten contributes $15,000 to the Democrat National Committee
(DNC). (Federal Election Commission [FEC] reports) The same day, Molten
receives a $9 million federal contract extension from the DOE. (Time,
August 1994 MMT forms a limited partnership with Lockheed Martin
Corporation, M4 Environmental L.P. (MMT press release, 10/23/95)
April 1995 Al Gore travels to the Molten plant in Fall River, Mass., calling
Haney a "shining example of American ingenuity." (Time, 6/9/97)
June 14, 1995 Molten executives and employees contribute $10,000 to the
Clinton/Gore '96 campaign. (Time, 6/9/97)
The same day, Molten receives a $10 million federal contract extension from
DOE. (Time, 6/9/97)
Late 1995 A technical peer-review panel says the DOE should cease funding
Molten at the end of the fiscal year (November 1995). (Time, 6/9/97)
May 7, 1996 Molten contributes $10,000 to the DNC. (Time, 6/9/97)
May 10, 1996 Molten receives an $8 million contract extension from DOE.
June 27, 1996 Lockheed Martin contributes $100,000 to the DNC. (Time,
September 25, 1996 The Molten/Lockheed partnership receives a $27 million
federal contract. (Time, 6/9/97)
October 1996 DOE announces it would grant Molten an $8 million research
contract through March 1997, $12 million less than investors expected.
Within a day, Molten's stock sinks 49 percent in value. (Forbes, 4/21/97)
October 23, 1996 DOE issues statement expressing enthusiasm for Molten's
process. (MMT press release, 10/24/96)
December 1996 A DOE panel concludes that Molten's technology poses
environmental and safety risks and might not be cost-effective. (Time,
February 12, 1997 San Diego-based law firm Milberg Weiss files class action
suit in U.S. District Court (Mass.). (The Village Voice, 4/1/97)
The stockholder's class action suit charged that Haney and other company
officials gave unrealistically rosy projections about Molten's prospects to
investors in 1995 and 1996. (Forbes, 4/21/97)
Peter Knight is "the hub of Gore's political circle. He ran Gore's House and
Senate office for years, helped finance his campaigns and chaired the
Clinton-Gore re-election effort in 1996. … From where he stood between Haney
and Grumbly, Knight came up with a fruitful arrangement: he began lobbying
the Gore appointee [Grumbly] on behalf of the businessman he was soliciting
for Gore campaign cash." (Time, 6/9/97)
William Haney is a "former Gore campaign staffer," according to The
Washington Times, 5/31/97, and a former fundraiser for Gore, according to
Forbes, 1/22/96. Haney founded MMT in 1989 and sought to mine lucrative
government contracts for environmental clean-up.
Thomas Grumbly is a "Gore protégé." (Time, 6/9/97) He "was staff director of
the Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight of the House Science and
Technology Committee from 1981 to 1982." (PR Newswire, 7/22/87) Until
recently, he was the Clinton/Gore-appointed Assistant Energy Secretary in
charge of the government's nuclear waste clean-up program.
Eugene Berman, who was MMT's Vice President of Governmental and External
Affairs, has had a long relationship with Grumbly. They both worked together
at Clean Sites Inc. "NONPROFIT Clean Sites Inc. appointed Thomas P. Grumbly
president and Eugene Berman executive vice president. Clean Sites is a
nonprofit organization that encourages the cleanup of hazardous waste
sites." (The Washington Post, 8/17/87)
All told, MMT, its employees and Lockheed Martin contributed just over
$218,000 to Clinton/Gore and the Democrats and received over $60 million in
government contracts over a four-year span. If the $218,000 were a business
investment, and the $60 million worth of contracts the payoff, it would be
the equivalent of a 27,423 percent return. The booming Dow Jones Industrial
Average, by comparison, only grew by 69 percent between March 1994, when MMT
made its first contribution, and December 1996.
MMT, its officers and employees contributed a total of over $118,000 to the
Clinton/Gore campaign, the Democrat Party and other Democrat candidates for
office between 1993 and 1996. (FEC reports) "Knight arranged extraordinary
access for a small contractor like Haney. He got him or his top executives
into 10 meetings with Grumbly over two years. Haney and Grumbly dined
together three times at such Washington haunts as Sam and Harry's and the
Prime Rib. Haney also accompanied Knight to a select dinner party at the
Vice President's residence." (Time, 6/9/97)
The DOE office which oversaw the awarding of government nuclear waste
clean-up contracts, until recently headed by Grumbly, "has awarded Haney's
Molten Metal Technology $33 million to test its process on the poisoned
remains of nuclear-weapons proving grounds - more money than 17 other
companies have received collectively to do the same job." (Time, 6/9/97)
On three occasions, MMT's quid fell within three days of the DOE's quo. On
March 24, 1994, MMT gave the DNC $15,000 and received a $9 million contract
extension on the same day. On June 14, 1995, MMT executives gave
Clinton/Gore '96 $10,000 and received a $10 million extension the same day.
On May 7, 1996, MMT gave $10,000 to the Democrat Party and got an $8 million
extension three days later.
Haney formed a partnership with another lobbying client of Knight's, the
Lockheed Martin corporation. Lockheed's $100,000 donation to the DNC on June
27, 1996 netted a $27 million contract on Sept. 25, 1996, to develop a
clean-up plan for a site in Richland, Wash. (Time, 6/9/97)
Credit to "Hamiltonian"
aladdinsane wrote in message <38CE5AAE...@earthlink.net>...
Empower America, Pat Robertson's group, and many of the others are indeed
illegal in fact. When they are tax exempt they are to give not even the
appearance of a political preference. Now, if someone has an audit that
amounts to a political audit by someone that is told what the result will
be, that is just a lie and a sham. But as crooked as this justice in
America has been, that is what we are doing. No personal relation can
survive on lies, cheating and greed. What would make anyone think it would
work throughout the entire country?
You ought to find out what some of the qualifications are to be TAX EXEMPT.
> OTOH, we know Gore was involved in getting contributions that ultimately
> came from Red China and we know that the Clinton/Gore admin authorized
> the xfer of ICBM technology to the same Red Chinese - the same Red
> Chinese who are now threatening to use that knowledge to nuke us if we
> dare to defend Tiawan.
> We're not talking about Roe vs Wade or school prayer, we are talking
> survival. If Tiawan falls because we dare not defend it then all of the
> technology we have given them - all the computer/chip factories, steel
> mills, et al - will acrue to communist China and if that happens, yawl
> young Democrats best start learning chinese.
Right, and General Electric is building the largest factory they will
probably have in China. They are expecting to provide 20% of the C.A.T.
Scanners in the world from that operation.
And they have Gingrich on tape telling some of the Big Republican Groups
that they have been returning the pork to the givers in such large returns
that Gingrich told them they should be giving much more and the returns
would even be better.
It gives me great concern that money is the root of all evil. Any group in
power can almost convict anyone in a none jury trial with these type of
selected prosecutions. I wouldn't hardly do anything to the Hsia lady when
we have all the others doing far worse than her. Haley Barbour would be in
jail if a Democratic congress were in charge. Partisanship has even invaded
the Supreme Court and partisanship has gotten out of hand. It is time to
break this up. It is rather ironic how the Republicans rail against unions
as being so bad, yet that is all a party is to voters.
> Gary Lantz wrote:
> > The Buddhist Temple is about the dumbest non-event in this country. The
> > right wingnuts Press blows this one out their....and forgets that it
> > in the light of $100 million or the Religious Right that received TAX
> > EXEMPTIONS so they could give to the Republican party, and that is no
> > question illegal. "Empower America was changed for that same illegal
> > purpose.
> > --
> > Gary Lantz
They are not tax exempt. Their Sham's are taxed like everyone else's.
"China sells nuclear weapons to our enemies.
China threatened to nuke Taiwan. Once, China
even threatened the city of Los Angeles. ... If
the White House succeeds in getting China
admitted to the World Trade Organization, I say
the White House needs a lobotomy performed
by a proctologist."
--Rep. James Traficant (My Favorite Democrat)
You are incorrect. One of the first things Gingrich did was to change the
status of Empower America when he became speaker. And that is why Robertson
is illegally on the phone against McCain.
> > Altho no friend of the religious right they are too smart to make illegal contributions,....
> You ought to find out what some of the qualifications are to be TAX EXEMPT.
I have (we have one - a club). All the RR, like everyone else, has to do
is create a corporation that can legally make contributions, legally
seperate from their churches, et al.
> > OTOH, we know Gore was involved in getting contributions that ultimately
> > came from Red China and we know that the Clinton/Gore admin authorized
> > the xfer of ICBM technology to the same Red Chinese .....
> Right, and General Electric is building the largest factory they will
> probably have in China. They are expecting to provide 20% of the C.A.T.
> Scanners in the world from that operation.
Yes, and try to buy a pair of shoes that didn't come from China. I don't
like that either, but there is a big difference between economic
competition and the capability to nuke American cities.
>The Buddhist Temple is about the dumbest non-event in this country. The
>right wingnuts Press blows this one out their....
Someone is going to jail because of it.
Especially considering that predominantly white Christian churches can lose
their tax-exempt status from just having voter guides handed out (a church
in Houston had that nearly happen to them a few years back and for just this
reason and nothing more), let alone giving millions of dollars to some
politically incorrect candidate.
Sounds like yet another Commiecrat talking out his ass...again...:)
Gary Lantz <gar...@defnet.com> wrote in message
> The Buddhist Temple is about the dumbest non-event in this country. The
>You are incorrect. One of the first things Gingrich did was to change the
>status of Empower America when he became speaker. And that is why
>is illegally on the phone against McCain.
Gingrich had nothing to do with Empower America, you might be thinking about
Why do you think Robertson was "illegally on the phone against McCain"? Who
paid for the phone calls? It might have been the Christian Coalition's PAC,
in which case it would have been perfectly legal. You really don't
understand IRS regulations or campaign finance laws.
Gary Lantz wrote:
> It gives me great concern that money is the root of all evil.
> Any group in
> power can almost convict anyone in a none jury trial with these type of
> selected prosecutions.
This too can be true. Once wrong doing is done, politics takes over.
> I wouldn't hardly do anything to the Hsia lady when
> we have all the others doing far worse than her.
I certainly wouldn't do anything to her if I am going to give her bosses the
pass. That is an example of the little guy getting it while the big guys play
> Haley Barbour would be in
> jail if a Democratic congress were in charge. Partisanship has even invaded
> the Supreme Court and partisanship has gotten out of hand.
I agree, but partisanship is part of the system and will always be. However,
when crimes are alleged, or evidence of a crime are allege the political process
takes over. That is the part that is wrong. I do not care if its Bush, Gore,
Barber et al if there is enough evidence an investigation should be mounted and
law breaker should be punished, end of story. (This is what divides everyone on
campaign reform). Let me say it like this Gary, Gore based on current
independent evidence, may have broken the law. People under him are being
sentenced to jail. This shit should be investigated and if guilty be prosecuted.
The problem (just what we are talking about) is it becomes a political issue.
One side cries fowl, the other side say's nothing is wrong, Gore said " I made a
mistake" and it becomes an issue in the campaign.
Same thing with Bush or whoever, if laws are broken and not prosecuted it
destroys the process, which is exactly what is going on.
> It is time to
> break this up
Yes it is. The only way that can be done is if the populace quit playing
political games with each other and start concerning them selves with our
government and its process. We allow this to happen and the politicians play
lose and fast with the rules without any regard to the public, because the
public are part of the political game and not concerned the responsibility and
character of our leaders.
> . It is rather ironic how the Republicans rail against unions
> as being so bad, yet that is all a party is to voters.
There is truth in that. I can only express my republican views on this.
Politically the union problem comes up in conjunction with reform. Here is how I
see it. Demo's want to reform parts of the fundraising that are inherently
strong for the Repub's while the Repub's want to do the opposite.
The Union deal " require dues are being distributed by the union leaders to
candidates without representation to the dues payer".
Wow, good spin.
They re-organized beceause they knew they weren't going to get away with
it any longer.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Well, let me tell you this. They can't preform as Pat Robertson or Bill
Bennett does and meet any reason in the law for being tax exempt.
Pat Robertson has sent out guides each election and his recent phone calls
are over the line as far as his tax exemption and the same is true with Bill
> Gary Lantz <gar...@defnet.com> wrote in message
We are finding that a lot of people have been going to jail because of a
Why would our Shams be taxed but not Robertson's? Are his Shams better than
ours or does be have some special type of Shams that I'm not aware of? And,
are you sure that Robertson's use of Shams over the phone against McCain are
illegal, and if so, is the use of Shams against anyone else over the phone
I admit, I just don't understand this new Republican Sham Tax proposal.
C3's and C4's are legally allowed to distribute voters guides and both
conservative and liberal organizations do so. You might not like the law
but the voter guides are legal as the law is currently written and
interpreted by the courts.
As far as his phone calls go, it depends on who paid for them If they were
paid for the thee Christian Coalition POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE they were
absolutely legal. And they might have been legal if done by a C3 or C4
depending on the language used in the script. The law is quite specific
what can and cannot be said.
As far as Bill Bennett goes, are you referring to him as an individual or
something Empower America has done?
>Well, let me tell you this. They can't preform as Pat Robertson or Bill
>Bennett does and meet any reason in the law for being tax exempt.
Buzz. Wrong Answer. And why are you only harping on conservatives? What
about all the liberal organizations that do the same thing like NARRAL,
People for the American Way, Seirra Club, etc? Does the first amendment
only apply to liberals?
Are you an idiot, can't read, or what is the problem. Gingrich had the
tax exempt status given to "Empower America" that had previously been
denied. The original reasons for these tax exemptions are not being met in
the slightest. It has all become a sham. Now they are enjoying money that
is untaxed and given by their fat cat friends while they influence
legislation to give that taxpayer money back to them ten times over. This
all comes out of the tax burden of the middle class eventually.
> Why do you think Robertson was "illegally on the phone against McCain"?
> paid for the phone calls? It might have been the Christian Coalition's
> in which case it would have been perfectly legal. You really don't
> understand IRS regulations or campaign finance laws.
> Kevin Allen
You better take a look in the mirror when you feel the urge to call someone