Re: All Polls Show Americans Are Against Obama and Democrats Healthcare Plan
lab~rat >:-)
<last...@LyingLeftistsare.invalid> puked:
>
>http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html#polls
That's pretty compelling. Why do you think the Democrats are trying
to railroad us with this legislation against our will? Is it that
they think they know what's best for us? Are they doing it with the
good of the population in mind?
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
wy
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:26:43 -0600, First Post
>
> >http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_hea...
>
> That's pretty compelling. Why do you think the Democrats are trying
> to railroad us with this legislation against our will? Is it that
> they think they know what's best for us? Are they doing it with the
> good of the population in mind?
Yeah, there's something really underhanded about trying to keep the
whole population healthy. There's gotta be a conspiracy in there
somewhere, so it's probably better to keep the status quo, 20%
medically uncovered and/or broke from not enough coverage while
maintaining government costs at twice of any other country in the
world, which of course comes out of your pocket one way or another,
and holding steady on the inevitable road to an effective bankrupting
of the nation, but we all know that the U.S. is bankrupt already. But
once it becomes effectively bankrupt, then you can kiss whatever
health coverage you do have, even through HMOs, out the window
because, for all intents and purpose, you too will be bankrupt to the
point of not being able to cover your medical costs. Somebody's going
to have to get their taxes pumped up big time to pay back China et al.
But as I've said before, unless it goes universal single payer, then
whatever health care reform there will be, it'll just be a mere band-
aid to what should be a complete body cast and reform will likely have
to be revisited all over again, probably before it's even due to begin
in 4 years. I think the only way the U.S. is going to learn anything
from this is if it really has to crash first, and it will if it goes
the route it looks like it's heading in - thanks to Lieberman and the
Republicans and the drug companies.
Jerry Okamura
"lab~rat >:-)" <ch...@cheeze.net> wrote in message
news:p3uki55vgj50ka6fq...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:26:43 -0600, First Post
> <last...@LyingLeftistsare.invalid> puked:
>
>>
>>http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html#polls
>
> That's pretty compelling. Why do you think the Democrats are trying
> to railroad us with this legislation against our will? Is it that
> they think they know what's best for us? Are they doing it with the
> good of the population in mind?
Obviously not.
Jerry Okamura
"wy" <w...@myself.com> wrote in message
news:23d17707-5b70-446e...@z40g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
"If" you do not place a very high value on our freedoms, you can support
universal single payer. If you place a very high value on our freedoms, you
cannot support universal single payer. If you want to be treated like a
child, you can support having someone else take care of you. If you want to
be treated like the adult you are, you would prefer to take care of your own
needs. If you want to give someone else the right to decide whether you
live or die, you should support someone else paying for your healthcare
needs. If you do not want to give someone else the right to decide whether
you live or die, you would prefer to be able to pay for your own medical
needs. It is as simple as that.
Von Face
Single Payer = RATIONING.
Plus....it's not FREE healthcare.
Reminds me of that idiot that thought she wouldn't
have to put gas in her car....or pay her mortgage.
She's still writing checks to the mortgage company.
Just like I am....just like YOU ARE.
You'll just have to learn the hard way.
wy
Yeah, well, if your idea of freedom is the freedom to get sick, pass
off virulent diseases onto others and die because you couldn't afford
to get treated, then you've got a very warped notion of what freedom
is. You have no freedom if you're sick, especially gravely sick, just
ask any bedridden person on life support, so what good is freedom to
you then? If you're going to enjoy freedom, it makes perfect sense to
be treated for whatever sickness you get hit by without having to go
bankrupt and losing your home for because if that happens, there goes
your freedom again - unless you think that it's perfectly okay to
enjoy the freedom of what misery you'd be forced into because you
couldn't cover the medical bills.
The equation is simple: No health = no freedom; no freedom = no life.
wy
Funny, I'm still waiting for my rationed health care in Canada. Gee,
was spending a week in hospital and getting back on my feet in tip-top
shape at absolutely no out-of-pocket expense to me a case of
rationing? If so, it kind of makes me wonder what all the fuss is
about in the U.S.
> Plus....it's not FREE healthcare.
It never is. Especially when the U.S. is paying twice its GDP on it
over every other country and still can't cover everybody, not to
mention that its cure rates are not that much better, and often worse,
than in other countries, particularly those damn socialist countries.
How do those socialist countries manage to do that, cover everybody at
half the cost and have better success rates at treating their
population than the U.S.?
>
> Reminds me of that idiot that thought she wouldn't
> have to put gas in her car....or pay her mortgage.
> She's still writing checks to the mortgage company.
> Just like I am....just like YOU ARE.
>
> You'll just have to learn the hard way.
And that's what it appears you're doing by sticking to your guns with
a system that's not only going to bankrupt the U.S., which is already
bankrupt, but wipe out Medicare and any other health care program that
HMOs can't or won't give you, and then the shit is really going to hit
the fan. You better practice your ducking.
Dänk 1010011010
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:26:43 -0600, First Post
>
>
>
> >http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_hea...
>
> That's pretty compelling. Why do you think the Democrats are trying
> to railroad us with this legislation against our will? Is it that
> they think they know what's best for us? Are they doing it with the
> good of the population in mind?
The 'Democratic' party pretends to be democratic, but socialists seem
to have a different definition of democracy. The Democratic People's
Republic of Korea (North Korea), Democratic Republic of Germany (East
Germany), and Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) are all
examples of socialist dictatorships which call themselves 'democratic'
in an attempt to legitimize their rule.
But although Democratic Socialists claim to rule in the name of the
people, the people actually have no voice, and those who express the
wrong opinions are persecuted, harassed, imprisoned on charges of
subversion or terrorism, and even confined to mental hospitals where
their paranoid delusions of government corruption can be
'treated' (fortunately, socialist countries provide full coverage for
mental disorders).
wy
How do you explain European socialist countries, then? Or even
Canada? Nothing like that happens in those countries. Of course, we
all know that you're simply picking and choosing countries that
pretend to be socialist, as opposite to actually being socialist, in
order to conveniently and ludicrously redefine socialism into being
what you'd like to fantasize it is, but which is nothing like that
all, hence, this display of your own ignorance's iirrational fear of
what socialism really is.
freeisbest
wrote:
> http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_hea...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really? ALL the polls? Everywhere in the U.S.? Even the ones
not written by rightwing jerkoffs like you?
Say, you wouldn't be here because you're trying to discredit an
honest administration and an honest president to try to lie your way
back into power, would you?
znuybv
Three cheers for Republicans, Lieberman, the drug companies and the
American people. They just might save us from Obama and his crooked
crew.
wy
Yeah, Republicans, Lieberman, Bush, drug companies and Wall St. have
really shown how they've had your best interests at heart by tanking
the economy and almost everything with it. Hip-hip-hooray! "Sink,
Uncle Sam, Sink" is the new rallying cry of Corporate America and
their right-wing lackeys, and the stooges like you who cheer them on.
Democratic Teabagging Fag
And how is health insurance reform gonna solve your whine?
You talk about treatment. If a sick person goes to an emergency
clinic, the law prevents that sick person from being denied treatment.
That person does not get emergency health insurance. Who gets charged
for that treatment? The taxpayer of course.
Two people go into en emergency clinic for the same treatment. One has
health insurance, the other does not. The bill may be the same. Who
gets billed? The insurance company for one person and the taxpayer for
the other. Where's the saving? The treatment is high no matter who
gets the bill. Why isn't there medical treatment reform? It still goes
up no matter who pays the bill.
-
Teabagging is an erotic activity used within
the context of BDSM and male dominance, with
a dominant man teabagging his submissive
partner as one variation of facesitting and/or
as a means of inflicting erotic humiliation.
A favorite hobby amongst LIBERALS.
Democratic Teabagging Fag
Free health care opens the door for abuse of the system. First those
who get government provided health insurance will use it for every
minor condition which can't be controlled without rationing. Second,
government has a terrible track record for auditing its expenditures.
wy
wrote:
Which partially explains why you pay more than anyone else in the
world for health care. How many people get treated like that at your
expense each year? Millions, if not tens of millions. That's a lot
of money to keep coughing up, especially when drug companies keep
jacking up drug prices by 5% a year. And when it comes to private
insurance, Canada does have private insurance for those who want it,
as well as universal coverage, but the average amount spent in 2004
was $917 on health care, including dental, eye care and drugs, while
in the U.S. it was $3,372. A large part of the discrepancy is due to
unnecessary overhead and insane drug prices, which are usually 2 to 3
times higher in the U.S. than in Canada, and that's for the same drugs
produced by the same drug companies in both countries. The difference
being that Canada instituted a sane policy of drug pricing control,
something drug companies need to be forced to learn and they're
learning, at least in Canada. And the U.S. can learn a thing or two
from Canada and other countries as well as to how to cut costs and
still end up covering everybody. So your feeble point is...?
>
> Two people go into en emergency clinic for the same treatment. One has
> health insurance, the other does not. The bill may be the same. Who
> gets billed? The insurance company for one person and the taxpayer for
> the other. Where's the saving? The treatment is high no matter who
> gets the bill. Why isn't there medical treatment reform? It still goes
> up no matter who pays the bill.
Somebody will get billed, yes. But is there any real reason why it
should be twice as much in the U.S. as anywhere else and yet the U.S.
is probably the only country in the world that is unable to cover
every one of its own citizens? Somebody's getting royally screwed,
and it's not the rest of the world.
wy
wrote:
Yeah, and that's why other countries manage to cover everyone, even
for minor ailments, at a reasonable expense, but it costs the U.S.
twice as much to treat its sick while still not being able to cover
everyone. Where's the real abuse of the system going on? It's not a
trick question.
JaxKayaker
Does Canada or any other country have 30 million illegal ailiens
flooding thier
emergency rooms demanding and getting FREE Health Care? Does Canada
or
any other country allow lawyers to sue medical Doctors, nurses,
clinics and
Hospitals for Zillions of dollars for a hangnail and get away with
it?
Neither of these two issues is being addressed in the current "health
care reform"
bill and untill they are, meaningful health care for the USA is NOT
possible.
wy
Fully agreed. It's a comprehensive approach that's needed that would
require a completely different mindset and a total overhauling of how
things work now, which is that they really don't work very well now
for the U.S. health care system nor its population within the big
picture of things. All the U.S. needs to do, which it should've done
ages ago, is study every other country's health care system and take
the most efficient and cost-saving features from each of them to
create an ultimate superior system that would then be truly the envy
of the world. This is what Taiwan did back in the 90s, it looked at a
lot of countries' health care systems, cherry picked the best features
and applied them to their own system. Right now they have among the
lowest costs per GDP, being about 6.5%, while covering their entire
population. What's the U.S.'s costs per GDP? Something like 16% now,
with millions, if not tens of millions, uninsured. Something is wrong
somewhere, and it ain't in Taiwan or Canada with their universal
single payer systems.
znuybv
The economy didn't start to tank until Pelosi, Reid, Frank and Dodd
took over. Then when Obama came it really took a nose dive. Just
look at the record and the time line.
Hope you are enjoying that hope and change.
wy
Revisionist Republican nonsense with nothing to back it up, as usual.
BluesMa
> On Dec 18, 6:37 pm, znuybv <tjwil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Revisionist Republican nonsense with nothing to back it up, as usual.
Like anyone here gives a shit about their feeble tries and
endless lies.
snakehawk
>
> > On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:26:43 -0600, First Post
> > <last_p...@LyingLeftistsare.invalid> puked:
>
> > >http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_hea...
>
> > That's pretty compelling. Why do you think the Democrats are trying
> > to railroad us with this legislation against our will? Is it that
> > they think they know what's best for us? Are they doing it with the
> > good of the population in mind?
>
> The 'Democratic' party pretends to be democratic, but socialists seem
> to have a different definition of democracy.
The "Democratic" Party in the US does seem to have a different
definition of democracy than you and the rest of the Republicans. You
feel that democracy is a system in which those with the most money get
to dictate what the rules should be. Those influential people who can
dominate the media, mount demonstrations, hire hack writers, run
clever commercials on television, and generally use their wealth to
criticize and ridicule any suggestions that might infringe on their
little lucrative fiefdoms, are considered the favored elite in your
little world of Golden-Rule Democracy." To you and yours, all laws
designed to help the rank and file are a form of undemocratic
Socialism.
So here are the simple facts. The Democrats in Congress won their
seats in open elections. They are charged with the duty to represent
the people who voted for them--at the voting booths, not in response
to some clever questions devised by pollsters and timed to coincide
with some propaganda barrage. They have a duty to use their best
judgment to further the interests of their constituents and that
nation as a whole. It doesn't matter what you think some recent poll
said or didn't say--any legislation they pass will be passed by a
democratic body, composed of elected officials. That's democracy in
action.
Democratic Teabagging Fag
OUR Congress and Obama make it into tricky situation. A "reasonable
expense" will not be the result of health insurance reform.
Jerry Okamura
With freedom comes risks. If you don't want any risk, you don't want any
freedom.
The equation is simple: No health = no freedom; no freedom = no life.
Equation is simple. If you pay for your own needs, you have the most
freedom. When you depend on someone else to pay for what you need, you have
less freedom. "Give me freedom or give me death".
znuybv
GaryDeWaay
603191...@e4g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, tjwi...@yahoo.com znuybv
says...
The "Drunken Sailor" Party controlled all forms of government for six
years... and nearly ruined the worlds economy, and now only try to block
the Dems that got elected to clean up their mess.
Amazing.
--
--
So if the global warming scientists are wrong, nothing happens.
But if the global warming deniers are wrong, the planet earth is
destroyed.
Nothing wrong with this picture??