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3184 Dead
Sep 18, 2012, 10:43:29 PM9/18/12
to
Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
September 18, 2012 8:16 PM EDT
CHICAGO (AP) — Chicago's teachers agreed Tuesday to return to the
classroom after more than a week on the picket lines, ending a spiteful
stalemate with Mayor Rahm Emanuel over teacher evaluations and job
security, two issues at the heart of efforts to reform the nation's
public schools.
Union delegates voted overwhelmingly to suspend the strike after
discussing a proposed contract settlement that had been on the table for
days. Classes were to resume Wednesday.
Jubilant delegates poured out of a South Side union hall singing
"solidarity forever," cheering, honking horns and yelling, "We're going
back."
Most were eager to get to work and proud of a walkout that yielded
results.
"I'm very excited. I miss my students. I'm relieved because I think this
contract was better than what they offered," said America Olmedo, who
teaches fourth- and fifth-grade bilingual classes. "They tried to take
everything away."
Mayor Rahm Emanuel called the settlement "an honest compromise" that
"means a new day and a new direction for the Chicago public schools."
"In past negotiations, taxpayers paid more, but our kids got less. This
time, our taxpayers are paying less, and our kids are getting more," the
mayor said, referring to provisions in the deal that he says will cut
costs.
The walkout, the first in Chicago in 25 years, shut down the nation's
third-largest school district just days after 350,000 students had
returned from summer vacation. Tens of thousands of parents were forced
to find alternatives for idle children, including many whose
neighborhoods have been wracked by gang violence in recent months.
Union President Karen Lewis said the union's 700-plus delegates voted 98
percent to 2 percent to reopen the schools.
"We said that we couldn't solve all the problems of the world with one
contract," Lewis said. "And it was time to end the strike."
Tuesday's vote was not on the contract offer itself, but on whether to
continue the strike. The contract will now be submitted to a vote by the
full membership of more than 25,000 teachers.
The walkout was the first for a major American city in at least six
years. It drew national attention because it posed a high-profile test
for teachers unions, which have seen their political influence threatened
by a growing reform movement. Unions have pushed back against efforts to
expand charter schools, bring in private companies to help with failing
schools and link teacher evaluations to student test scores.
Said Shay Porter, a teacher at the Henderson Academy elementary school:
"We ignited the labor movement in Chicago."
The strike carried political implications, too, raising the risk of a
protracted labor battle in President Barack Obama's hometown at the
height of the fall campaign, with a prominent Democratic mayor and Obama's
former chief of staff squarely in the middle. Emanuel's forceful demands
for reform have angered the teachers.
The teachers walked out Sept. 10 after months of tense contract talks
that for a time appeared to be headed toward a peaceful resolution.
Emanuel and the union agreed in July on a deal to implement a longer
school day with a plan to hire back 477 teachers who had been laid off
rather than pay regular teachers more to work longer hours. That raised
hopes the contract would be settled before the start of fall classes, but
bargaining stalled on other issues.
Emanuel decried the teachers' decision to leave classrooms, calling the
walkout unnecessary and a "strike of choice."
Chicago's long history as a union stronghold seemed to work to the
teachers' advantage. As they walked the picket lines, they were joined by
many of the very people who were most inconvenienced by the work
stoppage: parents who had to scramble to find babysitters or a supervised
place for children to pass the time.
To win friends, the union engaged in something of a publicity campaign,
telling parents repeatedly about problems with schools and the barriers
that have made it more difficult to serve their kids. They described
classrooms that are stifling hot without air conditioning, important
books that are unavailable and supplies as basic as toilet paper that are
sometimes in short supply.
As the strike entered its second week, Emanuel turned to the courts to
try to force teachers back to the classroom by filing a lawsuit that
described the walkout as an unlawful danger to the public.
The complaint sought a court order to end the strike, citing dangers to
students and issues that state law says cannot be grounds for a work
stoppage. The case was likely to be moot if teachers went back to class.
The strike upended a district in which the vast majority of students are
poor and minority. The district staffed more than 140 schools with non-
union workers so students who are dependent on school-provided meals
would have a place to eat breakfast and lunch.
When the two sides met at the bargaining table, money was only part of
the problem. With an average salary of $76,000, Chicago teachers are
among the highest-paid in the nation. After weeks of talks, the district
proposed a 16 percent raise over four years — far beyond what most
American employers have offered in the aftermath of the Great Recession.
But the evaluations and job security measures stirred the most intense
debate.
The union said the evaluation system was unfair because it relied too
heavily on test scores and did not take into account outside factors that
affect student performance such as poverty, violence and homelessness.
The union also pushed for a policy to give laid-off teachers first dibs
on open jobs anywhere in the district. The district said that would
prevent principals from hiring the teachers they thought best qualified
and most appropriate for the position. The tentative settlement proposed
giving laid-off teachers first shot at schools that absorbed their former
students.
The strike was just the latest and highest-stakes chapter in a long and
often contentious battle between him and the union.
When he took office last year, the former White House chief of staff
inherited a school district facing a $700 million budget shortfall. Not
long after, his administration rescinded 4 percent raises for teachers.
He then asked the union to re-open its contract and accept 2 percent pay
raises in exchange for lengthening the school day for students by 90
minutes. The union refused.
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Not dead, in jail or a slave? Thank a liberal!
September 18, 2012 8:16 PM EDT
CHICAGO (AP) — Chicago's teachers agreed Tuesday to return to the
classroom after more than a week on the picket lines, ending a spiteful
stalemate with Mayor Rahm Emanuel over teacher evaluations and job
security, two issues at the heart of efforts to reform the nation's
public schools.
Union delegates voted overwhelmingly to suspend the strike after
discussing a proposed contract settlement that had been on the table for
days. Classes were to resume Wednesday.
Jubilant delegates poured out of a South Side union hall singing
"solidarity forever," cheering, honking horns and yelling, "We're going
back."
Most were eager to get to work and proud of a walkout that yielded
results.
"I'm very excited. I miss my students. I'm relieved because I think this
contract was better than what they offered," said America Olmedo, who
teaches fourth- and fifth-grade bilingual classes. "They tried to take
everything away."
Mayor Rahm Emanuel called the settlement "an honest compromise" that
"means a new day and a new direction for the Chicago public schools."
"In past negotiations, taxpayers paid more, but our kids got less. This
time, our taxpayers are paying less, and our kids are getting more," the
mayor said, referring to provisions in the deal that he says will cut
costs.
The walkout, the first in Chicago in 25 years, shut down the nation's
third-largest school district just days after 350,000 students had
returned from summer vacation. Tens of thousands of parents were forced
to find alternatives for idle children, including many whose
neighborhoods have been wracked by gang violence in recent months.
Union President Karen Lewis said the union's 700-plus delegates voted 98
percent to 2 percent to reopen the schools.
"We said that we couldn't solve all the problems of the world with one
contract," Lewis said. "And it was time to end the strike."
Tuesday's vote was not on the contract offer itself, but on whether to
continue the strike. The contract will now be submitted to a vote by the
full membership of more than 25,000 teachers.
The walkout was the first for a major American city in at least six
years. It drew national attention because it posed a high-profile test
for teachers unions, which have seen their political influence threatened
by a growing reform movement. Unions have pushed back against efforts to
expand charter schools, bring in private companies to help with failing
schools and link teacher evaluations to student test scores.
Said Shay Porter, a teacher at the Henderson Academy elementary school:
"We ignited the labor movement in Chicago."
The strike carried political implications, too, raising the risk of a
protracted labor battle in President Barack Obama's hometown at the
height of the fall campaign, with a prominent Democratic mayor and Obama's
former chief of staff squarely in the middle. Emanuel's forceful demands
for reform have angered the teachers.
The teachers walked out Sept. 10 after months of tense contract talks
that for a time appeared to be headed toward a peaceful resolution.
Emanuel and the union agreed in July on a deal to implement a longer
school day with a plan to hire back 477 teachers who had been laid off
rather than pay regular teachers more to work longer hours. That raised
hopes the contract would be settled before the start of fall classes, but
bargaining stalled on other issues.
Emanuel decried the teachers' decision to leave classrooms, calling the
walkout unnecessary and a "strike of choice."
Chicago's long history as a union stronghold seemed to work to the
teachers' advantage. As they walked the picket lines, they were joined by
many of the very people who were most inconvenienced by the work
stoppage: parents who had to scramble to find babysitters or a supervised
place for children to pass the time.
To win friends, the union engaged in something of a publicity campaign,
telling parents repeatedly about problems with schools and the barriers
that have made it more difficult to serve their kids. They described
classrooms that are stifling hot without air conditioning, important
books that are unavailable and supplies as basic as toilet paper that are
sometimes in short supply.
As the strike entered its second week, Emanuel turned to the courts to
try to force teachers back to the classroom by filing a lawsuit that
described the walkout as an unlawful danger to the public.
The complaint sought a court order to end the strike, citing dangers to
students and issues that state law says cannot be grounds for a work
stoppage. The case was likely to be moot if teachers went back to class.
The strike upended a district in which the vast majority of students are
poor and minority. The district staffed more than 140 schools with non-
union workers so students who are dependent on school-provided meals
would have a place to eat breakfast and lunch.
When the two sides met at the bargaining table, money was only part of
the problem. With an average salary of $76,000, Chicago teachers are
among the highest-paid in the nation. After weeks of talks, the district
proposed a 16 percent raise over four years — far beyond what most
American employers have offered in the aftermath of the Great Recession.
But the evaluations and job security measures stirred the most intense
debate.
The union said the evaluation system was unfair because it relied too
heavily on test scores and did not take into account outside factors that
affect student performance such as poverty, violence and homelessness.
The union also pushed for a policy to give laid-off teachers first dibs
on open jobs anywhere in the district. The district said that would
prevent principals from hiring the teachers they thought best qualified
and most appropriate for the position. The tentative settlement proposed
giving laid-off teachers first shot at schools that absorbed their former
students.
The strike was just the latest and highest-stakes chapter in a long and
often contentious battle between him and the union.
When he took office last year, the former White House chief of staff
inherited a school district facing a $700 million budget shortfall. Not
long after, his administration rescinded 4 percent raises for teachers.
He then asked the union to re-open its contract and accept 2 percent pay
raises in exchange for lengthening the school day for students by 90
minutes. The union refused.
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Not dead, in jail or a slave? Thank a liberal!
MattB
Sep 19, 2012, 12:14:30 AM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:43:29 +0000 (UTC), 3184 Dead <de...@gone.com>
wrote:
>Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>
Glad it is over.
wrote:
>Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>
Vandar
Sep 19, 2012, 12:35:02 AM9/19/12
to
then the union will demand more shit.
Mr.B1ack
Sep 19, 2012, 10:22:33 AM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:43:29 +0000, 3184 Dead wrote:
> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
Only because the court was gonna ORDER them
> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
to do so - or else.
At the prompting of 'liberal' Rahm too :-)
Oh yea ... Democrats LOVE laborers and
labor unions .... so long as they're not
inconveniencing Democrats !
Hey, what would yer story have been if, say,
Schwarzenegger had got a judge to threaten
California teachers ? "FASCISM !" you'd
scream ! :-)
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
3184 Dead
Sep 19, 2012, 11:27:19 AM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:22:33 -0500, Mr.B1ack wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:43:29 +0000, 3184 Dead wrote:
>
>> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>
>
> Only because the court was gonna ORDER them to do so - or else.
>
> At the prompting of 'liberal' Rahm too :-)
Yet the teachers were celebrating, Rahm (who is no liberal) was in damage
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:43:29 +0000, 3184 Dead wrote:
>
>> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>
>
> Only because the court was gonna ORDER them to do so - or else.
>
> At the prompting of 'liberal' Rahm too :-)
control.
>
> Oh yea ... Democrats LOVE laborers and labor unions .... so long
> as they're not inconveniencing Democrats !
The Dems are abject failures in that regard.
> Oh yea ... Democrats LOVE laborers and labor unions .... so long
> as they're not inconveniencing Democrats !
>
> Hey, what would yer story have been if, say,
> Schwarzenegger had got a judge to threaten California teachers ?
> "FASCISM !" you'd scream ! :-)
I think Rahm is a fascist.
> Hey, what would yer story have been if, say,
> Schwarzenegger had got a judge to threaten California teachers ?
> "FASCISM !" you'd scream ! :-)
Next silly question.
Steve
Sep 19, 2012, 11:32:19 AM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:27:19 +0000 (UTC), 3184 Dead <de...@gone.com>
wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:22:33 -0500, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:43:29 +0000, 3184 Dead wrote:
>>
>>> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>
>>
>> Only because the court was gonna ORDER them to do so - or else.
>>
>> At the prompting of 'liberal' Rahm too :-)
>
>Yet the teachers were celebrating, Rahm (who is no liberal) was in damage
>control.
...and Chicago goes deeper in debt.
>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:22:33 -0500, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:43:29 +0000, 3184 Dead wrote:
>>
>>> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>
>>
>> Only because the court was gonna ORDER them to do so - or else.
>>
>> At the prompting of 'liberal' Rahm too :-)
>
>Yet the teachers were celebrating, Rahm (who is no liberal) was in damage
>control.
Vandar
Sep 19, 2012, 12:20:18 PM9/19/12
to
Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
Message has been deleted
Vandar
Sep 19, 2012, 12:42:25 PM9/19/12
to
Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:20:18 -0400, Vandar <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
>>
>>Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
>>wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
>
>
> No, they wanted negotiations on uncontrollable things that the state
> was requiring to be used agains them in evaluations.
Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
measure of teacher effectiveness.
> And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>
> Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
everything.
Unions protect the incompetent.
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:20:18 -0400, Vandar <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
>>
>>Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
>>wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
>
>
> was requiring to be used agains them in evaluations.
Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
measure of teacher effectiveness.
> And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>
> Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
everything.
Unions protect the incompetent.
Message has been deleted
Dänk 42Ø
Sep 19, 2012, 1:19:18 PM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:43:29 +0000, 3184 Dead quacked:
> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
Too bad, the students actually got smarter without the teachers around to
dumb them down and turn them into illiterate gangbangers.
Public employee unions must be destroyed. Citizens must regain control
of their government and its officials. Public school teachers work for
the taxpayers. We decide what they get paid, not them, at least not
beyond the same single ballot each one gets to cast just like everyone
else.
> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
dumb them down and turn them into illiterate gangbangers.
Public employee unions must be destroyed. Citizens must regain control
of their government and its officials. Public school teachers work for
the taxpayers. We decide what they get paid, not them, at least not
beyond the same single ballot each one gets to cast just like everyone
else.
3184 Dead
Sep 19, 2012, 1:45:40 PM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:04:09 -0700, Yak wrote:
> On Sep 18, 10:43 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>
> Poor kids, now they're really screwed.
They might actually learn something, and not waste their lives festering
in some Baptist's bullshit cosmology.
>> zepps_essays-subscr...@yahoogroups.com
>> zepps_news-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Unsubscribe:
>> zepps_essays-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com
>> zepps_news-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com
> On Sep 18, 10:43 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>
They might actually learn something, and not waste their lives festering
in some Baptist's bullshit cosmology.
>> zepps_news-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Unsubscribe:
>> zepps_essays-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com
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Message has been deleted
MattB
Sep 19, 2012, 2:06:23 PM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Yak <y...@inbox.com> wrote:
>On Sep 19, 1:45 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:04:09 -0700, Yak wrote:
>> > On Sep 18, 10:43 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> >> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>
>> > Poor kids, now they're really screwed.
>>
>> They might actually learn something, and not waste their lives festering
>> in some Baptist's bullshit cosmology.
>
>Really, who needs that when the students can get:
>
>- Just 15 percent of fourth graders in Chicago are proficient in
>reading.
>- Only 56 percent of students in Chicago who enter their freshman year
>of high school wind up graduating.
>- Seventy-nine percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public
>Schools are not grade-level proficient in reading, according to the
>U.S. Department of Education.
>- 80 percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public Schools are not
>grade-level proficient in math.
Please tell me these figures are made up? Something needs to be
done. It can't be just the teachers at fault.
>On Sep 19, 1:45 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:04:09 -0700, Yak wrote:
>> > On Sep 18, 10:43 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> >> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>
>> > Poor kids, now they're really screwed.
>>
>> They might actually learn something, and not waste their lives festering
>> in some Baptist's bullshit cosmology.
>
>
>- Just 15 percent of fourth graders in Chicago are proficient in
>reading.
>- Only 56 percent of students in Chicago who enter their freshman year
>of high school wind up graduating.
>- Seventy-nine percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public
>Schools are not grade-level proficient in reading, according to the
>U.S. Department of Education.
>- 80 percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public Schools are not
>grade-level proficient in math.
Please tell me these figures are made up? Something needs to be
done. It can't be just the teachers at fault.
Steve
Sep 19, 2012, 2:41:31 PM9/19/12
to
3184 Dead
Sep 19, 2012, 5:53:33 PM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:54:09 -0700, Yak wrote:
> On Sep 19, 1:45 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:04:09 -0700, Yak wrote:
>> > On Sep 18, 10:43 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> >> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>
>> > Poor kids, now they're really screwed.
>>
>> They might actually learn something, and not waste their lives
>> festering in some Baptist's bullshit cosmology.
>
> On Sep 19, 1:45 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:04:09 -0700, Yak wrote:
>> > On Sep 18, 10:43 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> >> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>
>> > Poor kids, now they're really screwed.
>>
>> They might actually learn something, and not waste their lives
>> festering in some Baptist's bullshit cosmology.
>
> Really, who needs that when the students can get:
>
> - Just 15 percent of fourth graders in Chicago are proficient in
> reading.
> - Only 56 percent of students in Chicago who enter their freshman year
> of high school wind up graduating.
> - Seventy-nine percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public Schools
> are not grade-level proficient in reading, according to the U.S.
> Department of Education.
> - 80 percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public Schools are not
> grade-level proficient in math.
>
Cite.
>
> - Just 15 percent of fourth graders in Chicago are proficient in
> reading.
> - Only 56 percent of students in Chicago who enter their freshman year
> of high school wind up graduating.
> - Seventy-nine percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public Schools
> are not grade-level proficient in reading, according to the U.S.
> Department of Education.
> - 80 percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public Schools are not
> grade-level proficient in math.
>
Steve
Sep 19, 2012, 6:37:39 PM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Yak <y...@inbox.com> wrote:
>On Sep 19, 1:45 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:04:09 -0700, Yak wrote:
>> > On Sep 18, 10:43 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> >> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>
>> > Poor kids, now they're really screwed.
>>
>> They might actually learn something, and not waste their lives festering
>> in some Baptist's bullshit cosmology.
>
level math proficient. Today's teachers are some the dumbest
creatures alive.
>On Sep 19, 1:45 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:04:09 -0700, Yak wrote:
>> > On Sep 18, 10:43 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> >> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>
>> > Poor kids, now they're really screwed.
>>
>> They might actually learn something, and not waste their lives festering
>> in some Baptist's bullshit cosmology.
>
>Really, who needs that when the students can get:
>
>- Just 15 percent of fourth graders in Chicago are proficient in
>reading.
>- Only 56 percent of students in Chicago who enter their freshman year
>of high school wind up graduating.
>- Seventy-nine percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public
>Schools are not grade-level proficient in reading, according to the
>U.S. Department of Education.
>- 80 percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public Schools are not
>grade-level proficient in math.
>
>>
OI suspect that a good share of the Chicago teachers are not 8th grade
>
>- Just 15 percent of fourth graders in Chicago are proficient in
>reading.
>- Only 56 percent of students in Chicago who enter their freshman year
>of high school wind up graduating.
>- Seventy-nine percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public
>Schools are not grade-level proficient in reading, according to the
>U.S. Department of Education.
>- 80 percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public Schools are not
>grade-level proficient in math.
>
>>
level math proficient. Today's teachers are some the dumbest
creatures alive.
Mr.B1ack
Sep 19, 2012, 7:07:11 PM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:32:19 -0400, Steve wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:27:19 +0000 (UTC), 3184 Dead <de...@gone.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:22:33 -0500, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:43:29 +0000, 3184 Dead wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>>
>>>
>>> Only because the court was gonna ORDER them to do so - or else.
>>>
>>> At the prompting of 'liberal' Rahm too :-)
>>
>>Yet the teachers were celebrating, Rahm (who is no liberal) was in
>>damage control.
>
> ...and Chicago goes deeper in debt.
Well, it'll have to raise taxes to cover
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:27:19 +0000 (UTC), 3184 Dead <de...@gone.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:22:33 -0500, Mr.B1ack wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:43:29 +0000, 3184 Dead wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>>
>>>
>>> Only because the court was gonna ORDER them to do so - or else.
>>>
>>> At the prompting of 'liberal' Rahm too :-)
>>
>>Yet the teachers were celebrating, Rahm (who is no liberal) was in
>>damage control.
>
> ...and Chicago goes deeper in debt.
the new expense ...... not a popular sort
of subject in an election year :-)
I've nothing against teachers getting good
pay and perks ... they put up with a lot of
shit and get blamed for every little thing
all while being charged with making sure the
next generation at least knows how to rub
two sticks together.
Chicago teachers already WERE getting good
pay and perks - were already well above the
so-called 'average worker'. This was greed -
and striking on the eve of elections was a
very cynical tactic. They wouldn't have
suffered by waiting a year or two until the
financial screwup resolves itself a little.
The more individual/local control of various
classroom and school details along with less
red tape - now THAT would have been a worthy
thing unto itself.
>>> Oh yea ... Democrats LOVE laborers and labor unions .... so long
>>> as they're not inconveniencing Democrats !
>>
>>The Dems are abject failures in that regard.
>>>
>>> Hey, what would yer story have been if, say, Schwarzenegger had
>>> got a judge to threaten California teachers ? "FASCISM !" you'd
>>> scream ! :-)
>>
>>I think Rahm is a fascist.
>>
>>Next silly question.
anymore ? :-)
FirstPost
Sep 19, 2012, 7:12:55 PM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:37:39 -0400, Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com>
Just the other day while on a survey of one of the city schools here I
was in a hallway making my notes and overheard a teacher saying to her
class "Ya'll be quiet, Marvin has a 'querstion' he wants to 'ax'. Go
ahead Marvin with yo' querstion".
The sign outside of that classroom was "Mrs. ____, 11th grade
English".
That is not an uncommon occurrence. There are also several schools in
the system here that have Math, Science, History, etc taught
exclusively in Spanish as there is a growing population of Hispanics
now that do not want their children to be taught English and the
school system has capitulated to "keep the peace" and avoid court
battles.
Currently Memphis has several schools that are being heavily
scrutinized by the State and are at risk of being taken over by the
State due to their far below average scores.
The kids graduating with the highest GPAs consistently are those
attending private schools. Most of the private prep schools here have
student bodies that accurately reflect the racial demographic of the
community.(around 75% black and 25% white with the exception of a very
few church funded schools in which case the majority is either black
or white depending upon the church's membership).
The Charter schools are also successful at having higher GPAs than the
typical public schools.
was in a hallway making my notes and overheard a teacher saying to her
class "Ya'll be quiet, Marvin has a 'querstion' he wants to 'ax'. Go
ahead Marvin with yo' querstion".
The sign outside of that classroom was "Mrs. ____, 11th grade
English".
That is not an uncommon occurrence. There are also several schools in
the system here that have Math, Science, History, etc taught
exclusively in Spanish as there is a growing population of Hispanics
now that do not want their children to be taught English and the
school system has capitulated to "keep the peace" and avoid court
battles.
Currently Memphis has several schools that are being heavily
scrutinized by the State and are at risk of being taken over by the
State due to their far below average scores.
The kids graduating with the highest GPAs consistently are those
attending private schools. Most of the private prep schools here have
student bodies that accurately reflect the racial demographic of the
community.(around 75% black and 25% white with the exception of a very
few church funded schools in which case the majority is either black
or white depending upon the church's membership).
The Charter schools are also successful at having higher GPAs than the
typical public schools.
FirstPost
Sep 19, 2012, 7:10:44 PM9/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:37:39 -0400, Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com>
wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Yak <y...@inbox.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sep 19, 1:45 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:04:09 -0700, Yak wrote:
>>> > On Sep 18, 10:43 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>>> >> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>>
>>> > Poor kids, now they're really screwed.
>>>
>>> They might actually learn something, and not waste their lives festering
>>> in some Baptist's bullshit cosmology.
>>
>>Really, who needs that when the students can get:
>>
>>- Just 15 percent of fourth graders in Chicago are proficient in
>>reading.
>>- Only 56 percent of students in Chicago who enter their freshman year
>>of high school wind up graduating.
>>- Seventy-nine percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public
>>Schools are not grade-level proficient in reading, according to the
>>U.S. Department of Education.
>>- 80 percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public Schools are not
>>grade-level proficient in math.
>>
>>>
>
>OI suspect that a good share of the Chicago teachers are not 8th grade
>level math proficient. Today's teachers are some the dumbest
>creatures alive.
>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Yak <y...@inbox.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sep 19, 1:45 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:04:09 -0700, Yak wrote:
>>> > On Sep 18, 10:43 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>>> >> Chicago teachers vote to return to classroom
>>>
>>> > Poor kids, now they're really screwed.
>>>
>>> They might actually learn something, and not waste their lives festering
>>> in some Baptist's bullshit cosmology.
>>
>>Really, who needs that when the students can get:
>>
>>- Just 15 percent of fourth graders in Chicago are proficient in
>>reading.
>>- Only 56 percent of students in Chicago who enter their freshman year
>>of high school wind up graduating.
>>- Seventy-nine percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public
>>Schools are not grade-level proficient in reading, according to the
>>U.S. Department of Education.
>>- 80 percent of the 8th graders in the Chicago Public Schools are not
>>grade-level proficient in math.
>>
>>>
>
>OI suspect that a good share of the Chicago teachers are not 8th grade
>level math proficient. Today's teachers are some the dumbest
>creatures alive.
Message has been deleted
3184 Dead
Sep 19, 2012, 9:41:19 PM9/19/12
to
infested shithole you live in is the way English should be spoken all
over the world.
Vandar
Sep 19, 2012, 10:04:43 PM9/19/12
to
Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:42:25 -0400, Vandar <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:42:25 -0400, Vandar <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:20:18 -0400, Vandar <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
>>>>wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
>>>
>>>
>>>No, they wanted negotiations on uncontrollable things that the state
>>>was requiring to be used agains them in evaluations.
>>
>>Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
>>measure of teacher effectiveness.
>
>
> Not under conditions that do NOT take into account why the student
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:20:18 -0400, Vandar <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
>>>>wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
>>>
>>>
>>>No, they wanted negotiations on uncontrollable things that the state
>>>was requiring to be used agains them in evaluations.
>>
>>Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
>>measure of teacher effectiveness.
>
>
> fails outside the teachers control.
It's the teacher's job to do that and help the student succeed. If the
student fails, the teacher failed.
>>>And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>>>
>>>Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
>>
>>If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
>>will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
>>everything.
>
>
> performance of student, etc---an evaluation is unfair.
>
> That was the gist of the strike.
That implies that the poor are inherently unable to perform well.
wy
Sep 19, 2012, 10:17:00 PM9/19/12
to
On Sep 19, 10:04 pm, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:42:25 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
class regardless of how great the teacher is. Varying grades alone
among a teacher's students prove that not all students learn the same
way nor, in some cases, do they care to. There's a thing called
genetics - you're either born with smarts or you'll keep remaining
stupid. The latter case you've proven yourself time and again.
>
> >>>And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>
> >>>Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
>
> >>If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
> >>will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
> >>everything.
>
> > It you do not account for family, income, social, class size,
> > performance of student, etc---an evaluation is unfair.
>
> > That was the gist of the strike.
>
> That implies that the poor are inherently unable to perform well.
Due to a number of factors, especially a kid's home environment, it's
generally so. Poverty and, hence, low intelligence, perpetuates
itself, only a freak set of optimal intelligence genes can help
someone born into poverty overcome it.
> Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:42:25 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
> >>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:20:18 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
>
> >>>>Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
> >>>>wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
>
> >>>No, they wanted negotiations on uncontrollable things that the state
> >>>was requiring to be used agains them in evaluations.
>
> >>Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
> >>measure of teacher effectiveness.
>
> > Not under conditions that do NOT take into account why the student
> > fails outside the teachers control.
>
> It's the teacher's job to do that and help the student succeed. If the
> student fails, the teacher failed.
Nope, not as simple as that. There'll always be a failure in every
> >>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:20:18 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
>
> >>>>Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
> >>>>wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
>
> >>>No, they wanted negotiations on uncontrollable things that the state
> >>>was requiring to be used agains them in evaluations.
>
> >>Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
> >>measure of teacher effectiveness.
>
> > Not under conditions that do NOT take into account why the student
> > fails outside the teachers control.
>
> It's the teacher's job to do that and help the student succeed. If the
> student fails, the teacher failed.
class regardless of how great the teacher is. Varying grades alone
among a teacher's students prove that not all students learn the same
way nor, in some cases, do they care to. There's a thing called
genetics - you're either born with smarts or you'll keep remaining
stupid. The latter case you've proven yourself time and again.
>
> >>>And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>
> >>>Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
>
> >>If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
> >>will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
> >>everything.
>
> > It you do not account for family, income, social, class size,
> > performance of student, etc---an evaluation is unfair.
>
> > That was the gist of the strike.
>
> That implies that the poor are inherently unable to perform well.
generally so. Poverty and, hence, low intelligence, perpetuates
itself, only a freak set of optimal intelligence genes can help
someone born into poverty overcome it.
Vandar
Sep 19, 2012, 10:33:49 PM9/19/12
to
wy wrote:
> On Sep 19, 10:04 pm, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:42:25 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>>
>>>>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:20:18 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
>>
>>>>>>Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
>>>>>>wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
>>
>>>>>No, they wanted negotiations on uncontrollable things that the state
>>>>>was requiring to be used agains them in evaluations.
>>
>>>>Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
>>>>measure of teacher effectiveness.
>>
>>>Not under conditions that do NOT take into account why the student
>>>fails outside the teachers control.
>>
>>It's the teacher's job to do that and help the student succeed. If the
>>student fails, the teacher failed.
>
>
> Nope, not as simple as that. There'll always be a failure in every
> class regardless of how great the teacher is.
Always?
> On Sep 19, 10:04 pm, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:42:25 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>>
>>>>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:20:18 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
>>
>>>>>>Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
>>>>>>wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
>>
>>>>>No, they wanted negotiations on uncontrollable things that the state
>>>>>was requiring to be used agains them in evaluations.
>>
>>>>Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
>>>>measure of teacher effectiveness.
>>
>>>Not under conditions that do NOT take into account why the student
>>>fails outside the teachers control.
>>
>>It's the teacher's job to do that and help the student succeed. If the
>>student fails, the teacher failed.
>
>
> Nope, not as simple as that. There'll always be a failure in every
> class regardless of how great the teacher is.
http://doylestown.patch.com/articles/cb-east-graduates-every-single-senior
> Varying grades alone
> among a teacher's students prove that not all students learn the same
> way nor, in some cases, do they care to. There's a thing called
> genetics - you're either born with smarts or you'll keep remaining
> stupid. The latter case you've proven yourself time and again.
>
>
>
>>>>>And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>>
>>>>>Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
>>
>>>>If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
>>>>will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
>>>>everything.
>>
>>>It you do not account for family, income, social, class size,
>>>performance of student, etc---an evaluation is unfair.
>>
>>>That was the gist of the strike.
>>
>>That implies that the poor are inherently unable to perform well.
>
>
> Due to a number of factors, especially a kid's home environment, it's
> generally so. Poverty and, hence, low intelligence, perpetuates
> itself, only a freak set of optimal intelligence genes can help
> someone born into poverty overcome it.
wy
Sep 19, 2012, 10:43:28 PM9/19/12
to
On Sep 19, 10:33 pm, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> wy wrote:
> > On Sep 19, 10:04 pm, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
> >>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:42:25 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
> >>>>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:20:18 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
>
> >>>>>>Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
> >>>>>>wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
>
> >>>>>No, they wanted negotiations on uncontrollable things that the state
> >>>>>was requiring to be used agains them in evaluations.
>
> >>>>Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
> >>>>measure of teacher effectiveness.
>
> >>>Not under conditions that do NOT take into account why the student
> >>>fails outside the teachers control.
>
> >>It's the teacher's job to do that and help the student succeed. If the
> >>student fails, the teacher failed.
>
> > Nope, not as simple as that. There'll always be a failure in every
> > class regardless of how great the teacher is.
>
> Always?
>
> http://doylestown.patch.com/articles/cb-east-graduates-every-single-s...
> wy wrote:
> > On Sep 19, 10:04 pm, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
> >>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:42:25 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
> >>>>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:20:18 -0400, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>Except the in this case----the state was demanding more for less.
>
> >>>>>>Yeah, the state wanted the teachers to earn their pay. The teachers
> >>>>>>wanted increased pay, benefits, periodic raises, and no accountability.
>
> >>>>>No, they wanted negotiations on uncontrollable things that the state
> >>>>>was requiring to be used agains them in evaluations.
>
> >>>>Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
> >>>>measure of teacher effectiveness.
>
> >>>Not under conditions that do NOT take into account why the student
> >>>fails outside the teachers control.
>
> >>It's the teacher's job to do that and help the student succeed. If the
> >>student fails, the teacher failed.
>
> > Nope, not as simple as that. There'll always be a failure in every
> > class regardless of how great the teacher is.
>
> Always?
>
Always in a general sense. Of course, there are freak aberrations, as
stated in the article:
"Lucabaugh praised the Class of 2011, noting that for the first time
he can remember, every single senior - 100 percent of the class -
graduated."
> > Varying grades alone
> > among a teacher's students prove that not all students learn the same
> > way nor, in some cases, do they care to. There's a thing called
> > genetics - you're either born with smarts or you'll keep remaining
> > stupid. The latter case you've proven yourself time and again.
>
> >>>>>And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>
> >>>>>Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
>
> >>>>If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
> >>>>will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
> >>>>everything.
>
> >>>It you do not account for family, income, social, class size,
> >>>performance of student, etc---an evaluation is unfair.
>
> >>>That was the gist of the strike.
>
> >>That implies that the poor are inherently unable to perform well.
>
> > Due to a number of factors, especially a kid's home environment, it's
> > generally so. Poverty and, hence, low intelligence, perpetuates
> > itself, only a freak set of optimal intelligence genes can help
> > someone born into poverty overcome it.
>
> Stupidity doesn't favor the poor.
http://filipspagnoli.wordpress.com/stats-on-human-rights/statistics-on-poverty/statistics-on-poverty-and-education/
Vandar
Sep 19, 2012, 10:59:12 PM9/19/12
to
>>>Varying grades alone
>>>among a teacher's students prove that not all students learn the same
>>>way nor, in some cases, do they care to. There's a thing called
>>>genetics - you're either born with smarts or you'll keep remaining
>>>stupid. The latter case you've proven yourself time and again.
>>
>>>>>>>And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>>
>>>>>>>Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
>>
>>>>>>If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
>>>>>>will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
>>>>>>everything.
>>
>>>>>It you do not account for family, income, social, class size,
>>>>>performance of student, etc---an evaluation is unfair.
>>
>>>>>That was the gist of the strike.
>>
>>>>That implies that the poor are inherently unable to perform well.
>>
>>>Due to a number of factors, especially a kid's home environment, it's
>>>generally so. Poverty and, hence, low intelligence, perpetuates
>>>itself, only a freak set of optimal intelligence genes can help
>>>someone born into poverty overcome it.
>>
>>Stupidity doesn't favor the poor.
>
>
> It certainly feeds on it.
>
> http://filipspagnoli.wordpress.com/stats-on-human-rights/statistics-on-poverty/statistics-on-poverty-and-education/
wy
Sep 19, 2012, 11:08:56 PM9/19/12
to
>
> >>>Varying grades alone
> >>>among a teacher's students prove that not all students learn the same
> >>>way nor, in some cases, do they care to. There's a thing called
> >>>genetics - you're either born with smarts or you'll keep remaining
> >>>stupid. The latter case you've proven yourself time and again.
>
> >>>>>>>And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>
> >>>>>>>Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
>
> >>>>>>If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
> >>>>>>will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
> >>>>>>everything.
>
> >>>>>It you do not account for family, income, social, class size,
> >>>>>performance of student, etc---an evaluation is unfair.
>
> >>>>>That was the gist of the strike.
>
> >>>>That implies that the poor are inherently unable to perform well.
>
> >>>Due to a number of factors, especially a kid's home environment, it's
> >>>generally so. Poverty and, hence, low intelligence, perpetuates
> >>>itself, only a freak set of optimal intelligence genes can help
> >>>someone born into poverty overcome it.
>
> >>Stupidity doesn't favor the poor.
>
> > It certainly feeds on it.
>
>
> That's about lack of education, not inability to learn.
It's not about inability to learn. It's about factors that result in
> That's about lack of education, not inability to learn.
affecting one's learning successfully. But we know you didn't read
it, so that was your inability to learn something from it.
Vandar
Sep 19, 2012, 11:18:08 PM9/19/12
to
There are other words you can use if you don't mean "every time, without
exception".
You have a very poor command of language.
>>>>>Varying grades alone
>>>>>among a teacher's students prove that not all students learn the same
>>>>>way nor, in some cases, do they care to. There's a thing called
>>>>>genetics - you're either born with smarts or you'll keep remaining
>>>>>stupid. The latter case you've proven yourself time and again.
>>
>>>>>>>>>And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>>
>>>>>>>>>Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
>>
>>>>>>>>If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
>>>>>>>>will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
>>>>>>>>everything.
>>
>>>>>>>It you do not account for family, income, social, class size,
>>>>>>>performance of student, etc---an evaluation is unfair.
>>
>>>>>>>That was the gist of the strike.
>>
>>>>>>That implies that the poor are inherently unable to perform well.
>>
>>>>>Due to a number of factors, especially a kid's home environment, it's
>>>>>generally so. Poverty and, hence, low intelligence, perpetuates
>>>>>itself, only a freak set of optimal intelligence genes can help
>>>>>someone born into poverty overcome it.
>>
>>>>Stupidity doesn't favor the poor.
>>
>>>It certainly feeds on it.
>>
>>>http://filipspagnoli.wordpress.com/stats-on-human-rights/statistics-o...
>>
>>That's about lack of education, not inability to learn.
>
>
> It's not about inability to learn.
You are citing it in support of your claim that poverty means a person
can't perform well academically. The citation, however, specifically
states it is about "1. Correlation between poverty and lack of education
in the U.S."
Not inability to learn (your claim), but lack of education (hasn't learned).
wy
Sep 19, 2012, 11:32:36 PM9/19/12
to
are no absolutes, except in a general sense.
> There are other words you can use if you don't mean "every time, without
> exception".
with exceptions".
> You have a very poor command of language.
> >>>>>Varying grades alone
> >>>>>among a teacher's students prove that not all students learn the same
> >>>>>way nor, in some cases, do they care to. There's a thing called
> >>>>>genetics - you're either born with smarts or you'll keep remaining
> >>>>>stupid. The latter case you've proven yourself time and again.
>
> >>>>>>>>>And raises/benefits ARE justifiable negotiating issues
>
> >>>>>>>>>Lastly, NO such "non-accountability" crap.
>
> >>>>>>>>If every student in a teacher's class fails every test, that teacher
> >>>>>>>>will get the same raises and benefits as a teacher whose students ace
> >>>>>>>>everything.
>
> >>>>>>>It you do not account for family, income, social, class size,
> >>>>>>>performance of student, etc---an evaluation is unfair.
>
> >>>>>>>That was the gist of the strike.
>
> >>>>>>That implies that the poor are inherently unable to perform well.
>
> >>>>>Due to a number of factors, especially a kid's home environment, it's
> >>>>>generally so. Poverty and, hence, low intelligence, perpetuates
> >>>>>itself, only a freak set of optimal intelligence genes can help
> >>>>>someone born into poverty overcome it.
>
> >>>>Stupidity doesn't favor the poor.
>
> >>>It certainly feeds on it.
>
> >>>http://filipspagnoli.wordpress.com/stats-on-human-rights/statistics-o...
>
> >>That's about lack of education, not inability to learn.
>
> > It's not about inability to learn.
>
> That's exactly what I just said.
different senses between them.
> You are citing it in support of your claim that poverty means a person
> can't perform well academically. The citation, however, specifically
> states it is about "1. Correlation between poverty and lack of education
> in the U.S."
factors, especially a kid's home environment, it's
generally so." - Me. Snap out of your coma.
>
> Not inability to learn (your claim), but lack of education (hasn't learned).
inability to learn what I've already explained in terms of
correlation, which my citation backs me up on.
Message has been deleted
Vandar
Sep 20, 2012, 12:23:40 AM9/20/12
to
>>There are other words you can use if you don't mean "every time, without
>>exception".
>
>
> I don't mean it as "every time, without exception". It's "most times,
> with exceptions".
>>You have a very poor command of language.
>
>
> You have an extremely abysmal understanding of general language.
you are too cowardly to commit.
"not about inability to learn" - you
It's nearly a verbatim quote.
> Now let's see if you can figure out the two
> different senses between them.
invent your own definitions.
>>You are citing it in support of your claim that poverty means a person
>>can't perform well academically. The citation, however, specifically
>>states it is about "1. Correlation between poverty and lack of education
>>in the U.S."
>
>
> Correlation is all I've been talking about. "Due to a number of
> factors, especially a kid's home environment, it's
> generally so." - Me. Snap out of your coma.
The citation you provided shows education received, not whether the
person is capable of learning if given the opportunity.
>>Not inability to learn (your claim), but lack of education (hasn't learned).
>
>
> Nope. Due to your own lack of education, you're demonstrating an
> inability to learn what I've already explained in terms of
> correlation, which my citation backs me up on.
You're pathetic.
Vandar
Sep 20, 2012, 12:24:51 AM9/20/12
to
Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 22:04:43 -0400, Vandar <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
>>>>measure of teacher effectiveness.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not under conditions that do NOT take into account why the student
>>>fails outside the teachers control.
>>
>>It's the teacher's job to do that and help the student succeed.
>
>
> Control of requirements for any student to do that outside of a
> teachers control should never be used as a means of evaluating them.
>
> There is enough evidence of how this works by the fact that faux
> snooze was started (akin to a supermarket tabloid) to feed a
> disgruntled democraphic crap they should know is outright nonsense.
>
> Yet when they sit down in focus groups---no matter how much you try
> and educate them to facts and truth----they simply do not have any
> ability to show they comprehend.
>
> In the end, a "test" of their knowledge would cause them to fail.
Because their "teacher" fails to provide accurate information.
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 22:04:43 -0400, Vandar <vand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>>Uncontrollable things like student performance, which is the primary
>>>>measure of teacher effectiveness.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not under conditions that do NOT take into account why the student
>>>fails outside the teachers control.
>>
>>It's the teacher's job to do that and help the student succeed.
>
>
> teachers control should never be used as a means of evaluating them.
>
> There is enough evidence of how this works by the fact that faux
> snooze was started (akin to a supermarket tabloid) to feed a
> disgruntled democraphic crap they should know is outright nonsense.
>
> Yet when they sit down in focus groups---no matter how much you try
> and educate them to facts and truth----they simply do not have any
> ability to show they comprehend.
>
> In the end, a "test" of their knowledge would cause them to fail.
Because their "teacher" fails to provide accurate information.
wy
Sep 20, 2012, 12:41:15 AM9/20/12
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off, etc. Eternity doesn't allow for it.
>
> >>There are other words you can use if you don't mean "every time, without
> >>exception".
>
> > I don't mean it as "every time, without exception". It's "most times,
> > with exceptions".
>
> That's not always.
>
> >>You have a very poor command of language.
>
> > You have an extremely abysmal understanding of general language.
>
> There's that qualifier again. Even in your childish attempts to insult,
> you are too cowardly to commit.
didn't fail any grades. Prove you've got a higher than 90 IQ.
>
> It's nearly a verbatim quote.
and meaning. You sure you haven't got it by now? You're not even
going to try to pretend you can do better than a 90 IQ?
>
> > Now let's see if you can figure out the two
> > different senses between them.
>
> As for what the words mean to you, nobody but you knows, since you
> invent your own definitions.
you'd have to get past your Repugnant tunnelvision approach to
reading.
>
> >>You are citing it in support of your claim that poverty means a person
> >>can't perform well academically. The citation, however, specifically
> >>states it is about "1. Correlation between poverty and lack of education
> >>in the U.S."
>
> > Correlation is all I've been talking about. "Due to a number of
> > factors, especially a kid's home environment, it's
> > generally so." - Me. Snap out of your coma.
>
> ..that the poor are UNABLE to learn.
>
> The citation you provided shows education received, not whether the
> person is capable of learning if given the opportunity.
citation, maybe you might actually get it. Oh, wait. Premises are
too abstract a concept for a Repugnant tunnelvision reader, it
requires going beyond a black-and-white and yes-or-no scope of things
and there's a right wingnut force field around you that prevents you
from doing that.
>
> >>Not inability to learn (your claim), but lack of education (hasn't learned).
>
> > Nope. Due to your own lack of education, you're demonstrating an
> > inability to learn what I've already explained in terms of
> > correlation, which my citation backs me up on.
>
> Whatever you say.
>
> You're pathetic.
Hey, you're the one who flunked out at school with a 90 IQ. I'd dumb
myself down to your level, but frankly, it'd be more constructive to
yourself if you rose up to my 132 IQ. I'm the Obama to your Romney.
Vandar
Sep 20, 2012, 1:14:41 AM9/20/12
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That sums up your thinking quite well.
wy
Sep 20, 2012, 1:23:05 AM9/20/12
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Dänk 42Ø
Sep 20, 2012, 1:29:42 AM9/20/12
to
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 01:41:19 +0000, 3184 Dead quacked:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:12:55 -0500, FirstPost wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:37:39 -0400, Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Yak <y...@inbox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sep 19, 1:45 pm, 3184 Dead <d...@gone.com> quacked:
Why do you mock the accent of white "rednecks," but denounce similar
mockery of the African-American accent as "racist?"
Hey hey hey, it's Fat Abbot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjhiLm7d4I
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:12:55 -0500, FirstPost wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:37:39 -0400, Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Yak <y...@inbox.com> wrote:
>>>
mockery of the African-American accent as "racist?"
Hey hey hey, it's Fat Abbot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjhiLm7d4I
wy
Sep 20, 2012, 1:38:11 AM9/20/12
to
On Sep 20, 12:24 am, Vandar <vanda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
Teaching isn't just about providing accurate information. It's more
about conveying a method of relaying knowledge in ways that students
can easily grasp. You can provide all the accurate information you
want, but if the delivery a teacher uses stinks, then even generally
more engaged students will disengage and not learn as well as they
otherwise would.
> Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
about conveying a method of relaying knowledge in ways that students
can easily grasp. You can provide all the accurate information you
want, but if the delivery a teacher uses stinks, then even generally
more engaged students will disengage and not learn as well as they
otherwise would.
Message has been deleted
Mr.B1ack
Sep 21, 2012, 2:04:04 AM9/21/12
to
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:54:54 -0600, Yoorghis wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:29:42 -0500, Dänk 42Ø <da...@kgb.org> wrote:
>
>>> Lemme guess, bubbles: you think the way they talk in whatever redneck-
>>> infested shithole you live in is the way English should be spoken all
>>> over the world.
>>
>>Why do you mock the accent of white "rednecks," but denounce similar
>>mockery of the African-American accent as "racist?"
>
> Because red-necks are the prototype who supported racism
Whereas 'blacks' play 'kill the cops / everybody' music
all day and night .... :-)
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:29:42 -0500, Dänk 42Ø <da...@kgb.org> wrote:
>
>>> Lemme guess, bubbles: you think the way they talk in whatever redneck-
>>> infested shithole you live in is the way English should be spoken all
>>> over the world.
>>
>>Why do you mock the accent of white "rednecks," but denounce similar
>>mockery of the African-American accent as "racist?"
>
Whereas 'blacks' play 'kill the cops / everybody' music
all day and night .... :-)
Hell Stomper
Sep 21, 2012, 2:09:39 AM9/21/12
to
On Sep 20, 9:54 am, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
> segregation most common in southern areas originallly, belonged to
> white supremacy groups, and were most likely to lynch blacks
>
> You ain't seriously claiming that mocking blacks is coming from
> non-racists, are you?
Get out of the 1950's.
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:29:42 -0500, D nk 42 <d...@kgb.org> wrote:
> >> Lemme guess, bubbles: you think the way they talk in whatever redneck-
> >> infested shithole you live in is the way English should be spoken all
> >> over the world.
>
> >Why do you mock the accent of white "rednecks," but denounce similar
> >mockery of the African-American accent as "racist?"
>
> Because red-necks are the prototype who supported racism and
> >> Lemme guess, bubbles: you think the way they talk in whatever redneck-
> >> infested shithole you live in is the way English should be spoken all
> >> over the world.
>
> >Why do you mock the accent of white "rednecks," but denounce similar
> >mockery of the African-American accent as "racist?"
>
> segregation most common in southern areas originallly, belonged to
> white supremacy groups, and were most likely to lynch blacks
>
> You ain't seriously claiming that mocking blacks is coming from
> non-racists, are you?
Get out of the 1950's.
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